RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 30 October 07 11:57 GMT (UK)
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Here's DebUSA's Scavenger Hunt, It's a very interesting one and I'm sure there will be some really good information found for her.
Good luck Deb. :D :D
At the end of this Scavenger Hunt, Deb's thread will be moved to the Traveller Board, it will remain unlocked so the information will stay available it will also make it possible for others to post at a later date.
What I will do is pull up the original Scavenger Hunt Thread and post under each participants name which board their thread has ended up in. After discussing this with a Mod, I think this is the right thing to do.
As from next week, all the Scavenger Hunts will be in the Common Room
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Hi everyone
I am hoping that you can help me fill in some gaps on my Penfold Gypsy family. I am lucky enough to have found them in some censuses but I am missing them in 1871 and 1881....
Thomas Penfold , my Gr gr grandad,( b 1841, Poole Dorset) married Sophia/Soffia Orchard (b 1846) in 1866, South Molton ,Devon.
1891; They are living in tents, Camp Downs, St Austell , Cornwall
RG12/1822 fol 114 p 14 ,transcribed as PENFULL , No place of birth given for any of them except Thomas , the dad , and that is incorrect.
Their children are :
William b 1871-1873. ..my Gr grandfather , married Bessie Palmer = 8 Jan 1898
Defiance b 1872
John 1874 ....married Ellen Small
Christona/Christiana 1875 ..married Edwin Orchard
Christopher 1877 married #1 Carnation Richards, # 2 Maria Boswell
Edward 1879
Soffia 1881
Nelson 1883
Eliza 1886
Harriett 1885 married Samson Richards
Missia 1890
Selina 1891
The furthest back I have gone with the Penfold Family is:
John Pinfold/Penfold b 1809, Warminster married 2 Aug 1831, Pimperne Dorset to Harriet James b 1814, Kingclere, Berkshire. They are the parents of my Thomas Penfold b 1841, Poole.
their other children: Robert (1832), Sarah Harriet (1833), John(1834), Charlotte (1838), Christopher (1843), Elizabeth/betsy (1845), Alfred (1850), Henry (1852), Edward (1853)
(We think that John Pinfold/Penfold's parents may have been John and Charlotte Penfold)
1861: RG9/1601 fol 40 pg 30 ... transcribed as PENFORD
John and Harriet are here with some of their children including my Thomas.
1871: RG10/2148 fol 41 p 16
Harriet Penfold nee James, widow, living in a caravan with some of her children and future daughters-in-law. John Penfold b 1809, died 21 feb 1870.
I started researching this in Feb 2006, when I was very much a newbie . I go back from time to time to see if I can find them.... as you can see it is not easy as they are all over the place.,
This is the thread that you may want to read before searching, so as not to repeat what I have.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=125868.msg558330#msg558330
Thanks you guys
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i tried reading through the other thread but got lost! so apologies if you already have this:~
Defiance Penfold died age 0 Q2 1873 Penzance 5c 186
so it seems they were in Cornwall in 1873
Nelson Penfold married Q1 1904 Camelford 5c 22 to lavinia Richards or Hannah Rush
it would appear these are connected although i am not sure how maybe grandchildern of Thomas:~
Missellie Penfold died age 1 Newton Abbot Q1 1908 5b 97 her birth ? (the only Mis* Penfoldi coudl find in teh full BMD 1866-1920), Q4 1903 St Columb 5c 72
so in Cornwall 1903 in Devon 1908?
birth, Sophia Penfold mmn. Orchid Q1 1913 South Molton 5b 663
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hi Deb... oooohh it's yours this week ;D
How exciting... i'm going to get my thinking brain going right now ;)
Debz
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deb , i've just had brief look... you remeber some time ..about a 100 postd ;D
i said i work with a PENFOLD .. i said to Ian about you searching for your Penfolds and he said that his mum does roots search, i mentioned the traveller /gypsey link and he said that he thought that his mum had found gypsies also ;D ::)
i will try and get details but he is one of the Directors and so have to pin him down !! ;)
Debz
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:)
Hi everyone ... sometimes the Penfolds can get really frustrating ... That's why I have left them alone for a while ... hopefully you can do some great digging LOL ....don't forget to look behind the bushes ... sometimes that's where they may be hiding..... ;D
deb
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1901
William penfold H 28 pedlar/traveller own account born Kenwyn Cornwall
bessie penfold W 24 " " own account brn " "
John Penfold son 4
thomas " " 1
Christopher " 3months
living in Kenwyn Cornwall, 25 Calenick (?) st
RG13 2222 foilio 47 page 15
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yep ...that's my great grandparents ....
William Penfold married Bessie Palmer ... they had a lot more children, including my nan, Violet Venie ...both died in 1926.
deb
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Hi Deb,
just marking this thread so I can come back with any finds.
Your family history is very interesting, how lucky they stayed in roughly the same area.
I've been reading your other thread and found it facinating.
Off to have breakfast, then I'll start digging.
Genie
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http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/PENFOLD/2002-03/1015763280
http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/journal5.html
http://journeyfolki.org.uk/Community/Forums/tabid/690/forumid/36/postid/1454/view/topic/tpage/2/Default.aspx
http://groups.msn.com/gypsiewitchcraft/askrhianna.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=9692
http://archive.thisisdorset.net/2005/5/11/55910.html
chucking things at you because I don't have any census's... ???
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just to narrow it down there were 17,720 hawker,pedlar and huckster in 1841 ;D
Debz
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Hi , Thanks ...
had to go out ...back now ...Debzzz do you think any of those thousands of hawker/pedlars/travelers could be mine ? ;D
deb
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Why not ??? they all had a load of kids. Are you keeping up the family traditon ;D
I'm still getting your story straight in my head but looking at the same time..... nothing to report yet :-\
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Nooooo 2 children enough for me ...Lol ...
I think it may help if I give you more on the children of John Penfold (1809) and Harriet James (1814)... at least then you will know why it gets confusing as they all married into each others families.... generation after generation....
gathering info , BRB
deb (who had a glass of wine at lunch and can't type properly now ) ::) ;D
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Hi..... Robert Penfold in this family is the Brother of my John Penfold b 1809..
1861:
Robert Penfold 45 born Wiltshire ?busk & mat hawker
Amelia 43 " " "
Robert M 23 born Southhampton "
Thomas 12 born Exeter "
James 11 born Bridgewater
Ollof 8 born Withridge
Henry 6 born Yeovil
Elizabeth 2 born Dorchester
Pricilla 6 monthes "
Maria Thompson 29 born Brockners, Hampshire sister and hawker
Henry 6 born Prath nephew
living Uplyme, Exeter, Devon
RG9/1370
104
22
I am going to copy some of the relevant info from my other thread so we don't have to keep going back....deb :)
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I'll give this a go through the day, Deb.......but I have to tell you my brain is realling after reading through the other thread as well as this one! ::) ::)
Looks like a real challenge! ;D ;D With as many name variations as my Bauers! ;)
.....dee
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Hi Dee ...
Thanks for giving it a go ...the Penfold married generation after generation into the Orchard/Holland/Hughs/Gess/Richards ...and used the same names ...like Defience, Patience, Soffia, Harriet , Ocean and Charlotte eeekkkk
I would love to post a great pic .... can I send to you to make it smaller?
deb :)
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Phew.... that has just taken me nearly 3 hours to read through and make sense of your last postings :o
I shall now go and take a look...
Interesting that you link up with Matilda, when I had a look at her names I recognised Loveridge and Davis... they settled near where I grew up.
I don't have travellers so it should be interesting.
jc
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Hi Dee ...
I would love to post a great pic .... can I send to you to make it smaller?
deb :)
Go for it Deb......I'll reduce it in size for you, no worries.
......dee
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hi jc
yep Matilda and I are cousins -in-law ;D I know it's so confusing .... tell Matilda to join in with us ...she knows all the Orchard history too
deb :D
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Deb,
how many DOBs have you found for Thomas and Sophia's children?
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Jc ... I will have to look ...
need to put dinner on the table ...BRB ....
deb
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Back
I must admit that in all of the info I have received/gathered there are not many births or baptisms that we can tie down....
Thomas and Sophia children:
Defiance b c 1872...there is a death in Penzance in 1873 ... It is not her as she is 19 on the 1891 census
The only real baptism I have is for the youngest child ..Selina ...22 feb 1891
All the other DOB and POb are just estimates from the censuses we do have .
I am not sure if the Penfolds or Orchards did this ...but there are many Gypsy families who would change their surnames for'privacy' , some men even took on their wife's maiden names ...it just makes it even more difficult to find them.
As I said, I am missing Thomas and Sophia et al in 1871 and 1881 ....they seemed to be living in the Devonshire and Cornish areas at that time.
Christona/Christiana b 1875 married william Orchard in St austell Cornwall in 1898 ...
Nelson was was born in Helston 13 May 1883 ,Helston, Cornwall
It seems like they were around that area from their marriage in 1866 Devon ...and kids born in the St Autell, Truro area Cornwall thereafter ....
I hope this makes sense
deb
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Hi Guys ...
hopefully I can get this picture on here ...My cousin Christine Penfold , granddaughter of Christopher Penfold (my Thomas' brother), who married Carnation Richards sent this to me ... I have yet to figure out who james penfold is ...you will see his name on the top of the vardo ....Isn't this a great pic ...? I am so proud to be a little part of this ...
deb
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arrggghhhh It didn't get here ... Deeeeee please post it for me ... :-*
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Here you go, Deb.....
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Defiance ORCHARD
Mar qtr 1872 Tavistock
would make her 19 by 1891....
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its quite funny, enter Defiance in the BMDs and the top lot are all ORCHARD/PENFOLDs ;D
I have a feeling of deja vue here...
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Thank Jc...
I have not ordered many certs as ...err never sure if they are mine :-\
Re; Defiance, everyone get confused with the death of a Defiance Penfold
iDefiance Penfold died age 0 Q2 1873 Penzance 5c 186
deb
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JC and Deb.....I think this is much more confusing than my Bauers with all their name mistranscriptions....... ;D ;D ;D
I'm not getting anywhere.....
.....dee
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you can scrub Defiance Orchard... i found her 1881 with father Edwin and Elizabeth :(
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I'm lost too. I keep getting sidetracked >:(
Deb, have you got a date for that photo ?
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Christopher Penfold Sept qtr 1877 Redruth
I think this might be the right one..
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I've just searched 1881 with 3 letters of given names and 3 letters of surname Pan*/Pen*/Pin*/Pon*/Pun*/ ....and absolutley nothing likely.
Next task.....doing the same with orc*/arc*/ etc...... ::) ;)
.....dee
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Just found a Defiance Penfold baptised in Truro
parents Robert and Louisa
P0096361
I wonder if that is an "alias"
I couldn't find another Defiance Penfold in the census or a Robert and Louisa Penfold
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I can't believe how many are brushmakers too...
have you seen this lot 1881
RG11/2086 folio 160 page 23 and the previous page
they obviously move around alot as the childrens births are all in different places.
My logic was Defiance >>> Patience :-\
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hi ...
JC ...nooo Defiance cannot be Patience ...My Defiance is def in the 1891 census with Thomas and Sophia Penfold .... There was a Patience Penfold who was d/o ...crapola ...can't remember ...
Those in 1881 .. errr are part of the family but Defiance and patience are not the same ....
genie ...no idea about date of pic ...I need to put it on photo restoration... would like some colour and an idea of date going by clothes ....
deb
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:)
you can scrub Defiance Orchard... i found her 1881 with father Edwin and Elizabeth :(
Elizabeth PENFOLD b c 1845 (d/o John and Harriet Penfold , sister of my Thomas who married Sophia ORCHARD) married Edwin ORCHARD (b c 1843).
See what I mean ...confusing :-X :-\
deb
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And name mistranscriptions won't be helping....just found Trefiance Pruforld
[Defiance Penfold] in 1881.....but she is not yours..... :'( :'(
.....dee
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Deb, I just found a baptism for a Defiance Penfold....but tis daughter of Robert & Louisa....Truro St Mary's .....22 Sep 1872
Sorry if you already had this one....but I can't remember everything from the other thread..... :'(
I also found the inscription on a gravestone for a Christopher Penfold but he was too young to be the son of Thomas and Sophia.
In the Truro Cemetery Ref 1171 Christopher PENFOLD 17 Apr 1959 Age 58
.....dee
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Hello Deb
This may be your Thomas' death entry
Cornwall Sep 1912 quarter
PENFOLD Thomas 70 St Columb vol. 5c page 98
Linda
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Romany/Traveller/Gypsy Family Pages
http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/links.html
http://www.cyndislist.com/peoples.htm#Gypsies
http://sca.lib.liv.ac.uk/collections/gypsy/woods.htm
sylvia
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Deb,
Are these any use to you.....
Possible issue of John & Harriet James.
John (Q1,1837,Kingsclere,7,81)
Sarah (Q4,1838, Brighton,7,310)
Tom (Q1,1840, Midhurst,7,385)
Charlotte (Q3, 1846,Worthing,7,544)
Christopher (Q2,1845, Midhurst,7,414)
Alfred (Q2,1848,Lewes,7,116)
Henry (Q2,1851, Worthing,7,592)
Edward (Q1,1853,Worthing,2b,286)
Possible issue of Thomas & Sophia Orchard.
Fiance (Q3,1872,Redruth,5c,240)
Christopher (Q3,1877,Redruth,5c,222)
Nelson (Q1, 1883,St. Columb,5c,93)
Harriet (Q3,1891, Bideford,5b,492)
Genie
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Was Your Ancestor a Gypsy?
Do you suspect that one of your British ancestors was a Gypsy? If so how can you establish a firm connection with a Gypsy family
http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/gypsy.html
sylvia
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morninging Deb...
taken me ages to use the site this morning and have alot of catching up to do , but i'm at work already >:(
just looked at the Gypsy site from Maidmarianoops..... list of surnames includes BOWERS ;D ;D
right stop joking now and get on with searching !!
just one little thing .. Harriet James brn 1814 Kingclere, it's in Hampshire is it not - NOT Berkshire ???
Debzzzzzzzzz
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i ain't getting anywhere fast..... :P ::)
Debz
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Nelson Penfold married Q1 1904 Camelford 5c 22[/color] to lavinia Richards or Hannah Rush
looking further into this i did a mmn. search on the BMD 1911-1920 for Penfold / Richards & Penfold / Rush
there were no matches for Penfold Rush and only two matches for Penfold Richards which may or may not be yours, :-\ :~
PENFOLD Phyllis mmn. Richards Liskeard. 5c 91 Q2 1920
PENFOLD Sophia mmn. Richards Bodmin. 5c 111 Q4 1914
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you probaly have this.....
Thomas James married Harriet PALMER 23RD DEC 1808 Kingsclere Hants
Could they be harriet James parents??
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Henry James born 1790 14th Nov. s/o Robert and Eleanor
Deb.. john and Harriet did have children called Robert, harriet, and Henry ???
Debz...going out for lunch...looking forward to civilised restaurant and Peronelle cyder ;D
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Just to let you know, this will be happening ......... I can't see any problems and in fact it will work out much better for everyone.
At the end of this Scavenger Hunt, Deb's thread will be moved to the Traveller Board, it will remain unlocked so the information will stay available it will also make it possible for others to post at a later date.
What I will do is pull up the original Scavenger Hunt Thread and post under each participants name which board their thread has ended up in. After discussing this with a Mod, I think this is the right thing to do.
As from next week, all the Scavenger Hunts will be in the Common Room
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tres bien ;D good idea Barbara
Debz
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You'd better thank the Mod in question ........... who wishes to remain anonymous but who walks round shaking trees and asking if anyone is in there . .. ... ;D ;D
Barbara
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Hi and good morning everyone :)
I have quickly read through all your posts ,.....Thank you .... I will take notes and reply as soon as Katie is off to school....
Barbara ... that is a great idea ...thank the mod in question for me ;D
deb
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Will do Deb. Now go find out some information ..............go go go . ... ;D
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Deb-twin.....your Penfolds are hidden as well as my Bauers were..... :o ::)
I've searched and searched and nothing but nothing is appearing.
I found nothing of real interest on FamilyHistoryOnline either........
I am giving up.....but only for tonight! I'll be back on the hunt in the morning...... ;) :D
......dee
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Hi deetwin
I also found the inscription on a gravestone for a Christopher Penfold but he was too young to be the son of Thomas and Sophia.
In the Truro Cemetery Ref 1171 Christopher PENFOLD 17 Apr 1959 Age 58
.....dee
This is my gr uncle .... He is Christopher b 1901 s/o My William Penfold and Bessie Palmer, my Nan's brother.
deb :)
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Hi Debz... yes I think they are the parents .. I did not have the marriage date ...thanks for that ;D
Henry James born 1790 14th Nov. s/o Robert and Eleanor
Deb.. john and Harriet did have children called Robert, harriet, and Henry ???
Yep ...John and Harriet's first child ... Robert bap~22 June 1832 = Fiance Smith
Sarah Harriett b c 1833 married ?? James had approx 28 children
William b c 1836 = Dianna Sophia Hewson (8 children)
Charlotte b c 1838 = Henry Gess (8 children)
Elizabeth b c 1841 = Edwin Orchard ( 6 children)
Christopher b c 1843 =Patience Penfold (4 children)
My Thomas = Sophia Orchard (11 children )
Alfred c 1850 =Louisa Small (7 children)
Henry c 1852 = Ocean Hughes ( 11 children)
Edward c 1853 = Rachell Holland
you probaly have this.....
Thomas James married Harriet PALMER 23RD DEC 1808 Kingsclere Hants
Could they be harriet James parents??
Thomas James and Harriet Palmer had these children;
My Harriett James b 1814 =John Pinfold
Thomas James b 1815 = Mary Jane Holland
John James c 1819
Eliza c 1825
Priscilla c 1816
Rebecca c 1830
arrgghhhhhh ;D
deb
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Genie ...brilliant ;D
Where did you find this ?
Thanks ... :D
Possible issue of John & Harriet James.
John (Q1,1837,Kingsclere,7,81)
Sarah (Q4,1838, Brighton,7,310)
Tom (Q1,1840, Midhurst,7,385)
Charlotte (Q3, Worthing,7,544)
Christopher (Q2, Midhurst,7,414)
Alfred (Q2,1848,Lewes,7,116)
Henry (Q2,1851, Worthing,7,592)
Edward (Q1,1853,Worthing,2b,286)
Possible issue of Thomas & Sophia Orchard.
Fiance (Q3,1872,Redruth,5c,240)
Christopher (Q3,1877,Redruth,5c,222)
Nelson (Q1, 1883,St. Columb,5c,93)
Harriet (Q3,1891, Bideford,5b,492)
Genie
am not sure about the above Harriet in Bideford, Devon. I have her as being born c 1887 ???
deb :)
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Hi, trying to summarise this up to make it easier to read:~
John Pinfold circa 1809 m. Harriett James b.1814 Warminster, 02 Aug 1831 Pimperne Dorset (source IGI batch M159791)
Children:~
Robert b.1832 m. Fiamce Smith Sarah Harriet
John b. 1834 m. married Charlotte
William b, 1836 m. Diane Sophie Hewson
Thomas - b.1841 see below
Charlotte b. 1838 m. Henry Geuss/Gess 1858
Elizabeth (Betsy) b. 1845/6 m. Edwin Orchard b. 1844 Ledbury m on 15 April 1871
Alfredb.1849 m. Lousia small (b.1851) m. 15 April 1871
Henry b.1851/52 Bridgwater m. Ocean HUghes (b 1851 Honiton) - see below
Edward b.1853 m. Rachel Holland
Thomas Penfold b. circa 1841 m. Sophia / Soffia Orchard b. circa 1846 in Q2 1866 South Molton Devon 5b 833 (source BMD)
children:~
William circa 1871 - see below
Defiance 1872c.
John 1874c.
Christoanna 1875c. - see below
Christopher 1877c.
Edward 1879c.
Soffia 1881c.
Nelson 1883c.
Elizabeth 1885c.
Harriet 1887c.
Missia 1890c.
Selina 1891c. bapt. 22.Feb 1891 Par Cornwall (under Pinfold, source IGI)
(source 1891 census)
Henry b. 1851 m. Ocean Hughes had a lot of children Betsy, Defiance, Orfius John Noah Vashti Albert Leonard (leonard m. another Sophia Orchard) sophie william & caroline
Charlotte Penfold m. Henry Gess in 1891 were in Battersea with children Mary age 16 b. Helston, Rebecca 14 b. Plymouth & Alfred 9 b. Helston
Christiana 1875c. Cornwall Grampound m. William Orchard s/o John Orchard & Sarah Q1 1898 St Austell (source BMD)
children:~
Edmund 1900c Calstock
Joseph 1901c Mary Tavy
william .......
hopefully this will make sense
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Ooooh sorry to butt in Toni, but is there any chance you could change the yellow for a different colour, it just makes it so hard to read and you've done a fantastic job on the summary.
Barbara
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Genie ...brilliant ;D
Where did you find this ?
Thanks ... :D
Possible issue of John & Harriet James.
John (Q1,1837,Kingsclere,7,81)
Sarah (Q4,1838, Brighton,7,310)
Tom (Q1,1840, Midhurst,7,385)
Charlotte (Q3, 1846,Worthing,7,544)
Christopher (Q2,1843, Midhurst,7,414)
Alfred (Q2,1848,Lewes,7,116)
Henry (Q2,1851, Worthing,7,592)
Edward (Q1,1853,Worthing,2b,286)
Possible issue of Thomas & Sophia Orchard.
Fiance (Q3,1872,Redruth,5c,240)
Christopher (Q3,1877,Redruth,5c,222)
Nelson (Q1, 1883,St. Columb,5c,93)
Harriet (Q3,1891, Bideford,5b,492)
Genie
am not sure about the above Harriet in Bideford, Devon. I have her as being born c 1887 ???
deb :)
Deb,
my list was found on FreeBMD. I used the old nogging, thinking of a circuit that might be travelled.
One of the main camps was probably in Kingsclere, the are also the following born there:
John (Q4,1837,Kingsclere,7,84)
Emily (Q4,1888,Kingsclere,7,94)
George (Q3, 1842, Kingsclere,7,104)
Genie
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Ooooh sorry to butt in Toni, but is there any chance you could change the yellow for a different colour, it just makes it so hard to read and you've done a fantastic job on the summary.
Barbara
happily obligied, now is brown!
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Thank you Toni, you're a doll .............. :-* :-*
Barbara
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Hi
You are all fab ... Thanks Toni :) , that must have taken some time , I appreciate it ...
I have been reading through all the links that Hepburn posted on page 1 ...they are great ...thanks Hepburn :)
as I said previously ...It can get confusing as they all intermarry , another confusing part is that their children are born over a span of 20-25 years ... So as one sibling is getting married and having children another sibling may have just been born..eg:
Robert s/o John and Harriet was born 1832 .... his youngest brother Edward was born circa 1853
deb :-\
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Deb,
I don't whether these are your family!!
1881, 4 families of Penfold all living next door to one another in Hod hill lane Okefied Dorset,and all of them brushmakers...
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Thank you Toni, you're a doll .............. :-* :-*
Barbara
no problem i just hope it makes sense.
William (s/o Thomas & Soffia) m. bessie small (Debs gt grandfather) i wont elaborate on their children
John 1874c. (s/o Thomas & Soffia) m. Ellen Small
children:~
Mark,
Eliza
John
Vashtie
Missellie
Genty
Edward
Priscilla
Harriet
Sophie
Helen
Genty Penfold m. John Albert James s/o Vashtie James
children:
John
William
Vashtie
Jenty
Liberty
Edward 1879c (s/o Thomas & Soffia) m. Florence Mabel Whitcombe from Meare in 1913 Florence d. 1917 and Edward remarried Elizabeth Whitcombe
Nelson m. 1904 to Lavinia Richards or Hannah Rush
so info. on the following children of Thomas & Soffia is required
Defiance
Christopher
Soffia
Elizabeth
Harriet
Selina
Missia
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Hi Toni ... Thanks :)
William (s/o Thomas & Soffia) m. bessie small (Debs gt grandfather) i wont elaborate on their children
so info. on the following children of Thomas & Soffia is required
Defiance
Christopher
Soffia
Elizabeth
Harriet
Selina
Missia
William Penfold b 1872ish s/o Thomas and Soffia married Bessie PALMER . :)
re: Christopher Penfold ... he married Carnation Richards on 14 Nov 1903 , child : Edward/Eddy he was 3 when his mum died.
Carnation Richards d/o Justinyen/Justinian Richards, she died age 23 , 17 jan 1906 , of acute TB
Christopher Penfold then married for a 2nd time ...to Mariah/Maria BOSWELL
deb
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http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/penfoldorchardfami/4525261773
you must look at this Deb....
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William (s/o Thomas & Soffia) m. bessie small (Debs gt grandfather) i wont elaborate on their children
so info. on the following children of Thomas & Soffia is required
Defiance
ChristopherSoffia
Elizabeth
Harriet
Selina
Missia
Elizabeth Penfold b c 1885 = William Orchard
1908, Stratton Cornwall
arrgghhhh LOL
deb
Hepburn ...I will have a look ...thanks :)
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HEPBURN ..... :o :o :o WOW
Thanks so much :-*
deb
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I have been on that site before but they didn't have that section .... It evens gives who Harriet and Selina married ...
FABULOUS FIND
deb
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Deb,
they've even managed to find a Defiance in the 1881!!
wrong birth year though she's 3,but even so there wasn't any on Familysearch..
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Hepburn ...
Yes , That Defiance Penfold belongs to Henry Penfold (brother of my Thomas, who also had a Defiance) ) and Ocean Hughes.....
great names don't you think ! :D
deb
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.....
William Penfold b 1872ish s/o Thomas and Soffia married Bessie PALMER . :) ....
deb
Per FreeBMD - William Penfold m. Bessie Palmer (Q1,1898,Flamouth,5c,250)
Genie
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My Thomas and Sophia are not there in 1871 or 1881 :'( :'(
I checked in Wales a while back ... they used to travel back and forth , or so I was told by my mum ... My Uncle Nelson (s/o William Penfold and Bessie Palmer) used to walk to Wales for the 'cattle drives'.... He was also a great boxer in his day and used to attend all the fairs .... ;D
deb
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Thanks for that Genie ...I have the marriage cert ... Thomas states he is 24.
deb :)
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Where the H*ll are they????
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They are in a Vardo somewhere .............on the side of a road / behind a barn/ on the downs ....arrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :-\
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My Thomas and Sophia are not there in 1871 or 1881 :'( :'(
... My Uncle Nelson (s/o William Penfold and Bessie Palmer) used to walk to Wales for the 'cattle drives'....
deb
Deb,
If Wm. and Bessie walked to Wales you might consider this one:
FreeBMD - William b. (Q4,1874, Clifton,6a,66)
Clifton is now part of Bristol... have you checked Gloucester and Somerset for Tom and Sophia?
Genie
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Genie
I am searching without using areas/counties at all ....Cannot see them in 1871/81.
I was just searching for John and Harriet in 1851...cannot see them either.
here they are in 1861
Minehead
John Penford Head 52 Travelling Hawker b. Warminster
Harriett Penford Wife 49 Berkshire Kingclere
Thomas Penford Son 20 b. Dorset Poole = Soffia Orchard
Christopher Penford Son 18 b. Somerset Taunton
Elizabeth Penford 16 Daughter b. Dorset Gladford (sic)
Alfred Penford 13 son b. Somerset Chalton
Henry Penford 10 son b. Somerset Bridgewater
Edward Penford 8 son b. Cornwall Dobbwalls
RG9/1601 Folio 40 Page 30
BTW ... William and Bessie did not go traipsing up to Wales ;D ... a few of their son's did though .... can you imagine walking to Wales from Cornwall...maybe it's family 'stories' :-\ :-X
deb
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:)
Genie ...not sure who they are ...
William Penfold married Bessie Palmer in 1898.
Tom married Sophia/Soffia ....
The boys are the right age , but I doubt mine would have been scholars...I will definitely take a look ...
Tom and sophia also had Defiance,Christona, Edward and Christopher...they were all born in 1870's so they should be with her as well... :-\
deb
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Hmmm :-\ I see what you mean, I get easily confused.
Never mind eh! ;D
P.S. Deb, when they put scholar down it just meant they were school age. Don't read to much into the term scholar :D
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Genie
even I get confused and they are mine ::) ;D
trying to put fresh colour in my hair .... arrgghhh ... time to rinse ;D
deb
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Hi Hepburn ...Thanks for that ... I have no idea who they are but I am sure they are related in some way ..... :-\
deb
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Debbieeee :D :D :D
we've hundreds of 'em running about all over the southern weald. The name may be Pen Fold but they won't stay penned in that thar fold will they ;D
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LMHO Genie ....
Geezzzzzz ..... wish they had stayed in one area .....there all ovvvvvvverrrrr ...
My cousin, whose grandparents were Christopher Penfold (s/o Thomas and Sophia) who married Carnation Richards, lives in the Sussex area ... that's where a LOT of Penfolds are ...mine seemed to stay in the Cornwall area...well some of them did :-\ :-\ arrgghhhh
deb ;D
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Found this on a "Funny names" site, Cornwall.
Defiance Penfold,Truro St Marys' bp 22/9/72...
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here's another one that might be yours
Foyence Penfold 1890 Mar qtr Redruth
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Just popping in, a day behind as ever. Just starting searching, maybe will stumble across something!
My sister law is a gypsy descendant (surname Worrall) They are impossible to find. They spread through Warwickshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Herefordshire, S & W Wales and even Guernsey and Ireland!
:o :o :o
David
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Hi Deb- i have looked thru all variation of penfolds for thomas and sophia but i can't find them but that earlier post looks good. In 1891 there were up to 918 families of Penfolds in Sussex and London. Upto 459 families in Kent. Upto 153 families in most other counties , including wales.
This is not really helpful but i can't find much else.
Will start again tomorrow- had busy day.
Debz
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BTW ... William and Bessie did not go traipsing up to Wales ;D ... a few of their son's did though .... can you imagine walking to Wales from Cornwall...maybe it's family 'stories' :-\ :-X
deb
Deb....folks in Oz walked from one state to another .....that's like walking almost the length of England and Scotland.....so walking from Wales to Cornwall would not be so outrageous.
Can't imagine any of us doing it though. ;D ;D ;D
......dee
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.... but Dee... you can't go in a straight line in the UK and there's an awfull big bend in the trip from Cornwall to Wales :D
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Perhaps it depends on if you lean to the left or the right when going round that bend!! ;D ;D
There's certainly lot's of information being found ........... you're not related to the Penfolds wine industry are you Deb?? ........... if you are you've just become my new best friend ... :D ;)
Barbara
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Oh! .... I say!!.... I missed that one :D
I wonder..... Deb is an expert ;D ;D ;D
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Deb might be her own best friend if she is related, Barbara! ;D ;D ;D
I'm trying to scrounge information from here there and everywhere.....but there's is nothing forthcoming...... :-\
...dee
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Oooo! Deb.... you didn't tell us about your Aussie rellies ...
:D :D :D
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We need some sort of expert that can perform miracles and put all the information in order.
AAAHHHHGGGG WISHFULL THINKING
SYLVIA
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Hi, trying to summarise this up to make it easier to read:~
John Pinfold circa 1809 m. Harriett James b.1814 Warminster, 02 Aug 1831 Pimperne Dorset (source IGI batch M159791)
Children:~
Robert b.1832 m. Fiamce Smith Sarah Harriet
John b. 1834 m. married Charlotte
William b, 1836 m. Diane Sophie Hewson
Thomas - b.1841 see below
Charlotte b. 1838 m. Henry Geuss/Gess 1858
Elizabeth (Betsy) b. 1845/6 m. Edwin Orchard b. 1844 Ledbury m on 15 April 1871
Alfredb.1849 m. Lousia small (b.1851) m. 15 April 1871
Henry b.1851/52 Bridgwater m. Ocean HUghes (b 1851 Honiton) - see below
Edward b.1853 m. Rachel Holland
Thomas Penfold b. circa 1841 m. Sophia / Soffia Orchard b. circa 1846 in Q2 1866 South Molton Devon 5b 833 (source BMD)
children:~
William circa 1871 - see below
Defiance 1872c.
John 1874c.
Christoanna 1875c. - see below
Christopher 1877c.
Edward 1879c.
Soffia 1881c.
Nelson 1883c.
Elizabeth 1885c.
Harriet 1887c.
Missia 1890c.
Selina 1891c. bapt. 22.Feb 1891 Par Cornwall (under Pinfold, source IGI)
(source 1891 census)
Henry b. 1851 m. Ocean Hughes had a lot of children Betsy, Defiance, Orfius John Noah Vashti Albert Leonard (leonard m. another Sophia Orchard) sophie william & caroline
Charlotte Penfold m. Henry Gess in 1891 were in Battersea with children Mary age 16 b. Helston, Rebecca 14 b. Plymouth & Alfred 9 b. Helston
Christiana 1875c. Cornwall Grampound m. William Orchard s/o John Orchard & Sarah Q1 1898 St Austell (source BMD)
children:~
Edmund 1900c Calstock
Joseph 1901c Mary Tavy
william .......
hopefully this will make sense
This is an excellent summary Toni* did a few pages back, I'm sure Deb will be able to add the new details to it. It should help.
Barbara
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The summary is definitley helping me.
Could this be the marriage of Edward Penfold c 1879?
Edward PENFOLD aged 21 bachelor licensed hawker father Thomas also a licensed hawker
married in Calstock Cornwall after banns on 18-Jul 1899
Mary Ann ORCHARD aged 19 spinster father Henry licensed hawker
Witnesses were Christopher Penfold & Eliza Penfold They signed with a mark.
.......dee
Oh ....tis so hard to remember what has happened to them all.....I just read back and I see you already have Edward's marriages......so who is this Edward with father Thomas and witnesses Christopher and Eliza? :o ::)
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Hi everyone ....
Thank goodness Halloween is over ... now I can play again :)
Dee ...Edward Penfold =Mary Ann Orchard is s/o Thomas Penfold and Sophia Orchard ...he is the brother to my William penfold =Bessie Palmer.
Christopher Penfold (witness) =Carnation Richards and Maria Boswell ...he is also S/o Thomas and Sophia
Eliza Penfold (witness) = William Orchard ...she is d/o Thomas Penfold and Sophia Orchard.
Blimey .... lol
deb ;D
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;D
Re : The PENFOLD WINE
If anyone can find a link between me and them ...I would be eternally grateful :o :o :o :D
deb ...keeping fingers crossed :)
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so info. on the following children of Thomas & Soffia is required
Defiance
Christopher
Soffia
Elizabeth
Harriet
Selina
Missia
that webiste Hepburn found is a goldmine :D
The summary is definitley helping me.
Could this be the marriage of Edward Penfold c 1879?
Edward PENFOLD aged 21 bachelor licensed hawker father Thomas also a licensed hawker
married in Calstock Cornwall after banns on 18-Jul 1899
Mary Ann ORCHARD aged 19 spinster father Henry licensed hawker
Witnesses were Christopher Penfold & Eliza Penfold They signed with a mark.
.......dee
Oh ....tis so hard to remember what has happened to them all.....I just read back and I see you already have Edward's marriages......so who is this Edward with father Thomas and witnesses Christopher and Eliza? :o ::)
perhaps Christopher had 2 wives 1 in each County a bit like a sailor with a girl in each port he he he ;D ;D ;D
no seriously perhaps he did have two wives.
i think pretty much now that we have found the marriages and children at least of John Pinfold and some of his grandchildren / gt grandchildren, we are pretty much geting near the dreaded 1920's whwere info. is hard to find and you risk encrocahing (is that the right word?) on living people and i think we should now concentrate on working back with JOhn Pinfold - where did he come from who are his parents. etc etc
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Hi Toni
yes Hepburns find is GREAT !!!!!!!!!
re: Christopher Penfold ...I am in touch with his grandchild .... He def. married Carnation Richards in 1903, she had Eddy, she died 1906 of TB aged 23 :'(
He then married Maria Boswell c 1911 ...they had no children .
re; John Pinfold ...I have scribbles about him ...supposedly he was the s/o John Pinfold and Charlotte... I have no proof.
John Pinfold (b c 1809) had a brother ...Robert who married an Amelia ....
I will find the details ...maybe we can figure it out working from the 2 brothers ... ? :-\
deb
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here is Robert Penfold (b/o john Pinfold b 1809) in 1861:
Listed in Persons not in houses
Robert Penfold 45 born Wiltshire brush & mat hawker
Amelia 43 " " "
Robert M 23 born Southhampton "
Thomas 12 born Exeter "
James 11 born Bridgewater
Ollof 8 born Withridge
Henry 6 born Yeovil
Elizabeth 2 born Dorchester
Pricilla 6 monthes "
Maria Thompson 29 born Brockners, Hampshire sister and hawker
Henry 6 born Prath nephew
living Uplyme, Exeter, Devon
RG9/1370
104
22
I wonder if Maria Thompson is the sister of Robert ..ie: anothersibling of my John and Robert or is she is the sister of Amelia the wife.? I am hoping she is a Penfold ..... I think that they were all so close that they may have refered to in-laws as siblings/family members .!
deb
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okay ...
IGI extracted
Robert Penfold =Amelia Page
26 dec 1836
Bishops Waltham, Hampshire
now to find Maria Thompson ...hopefully , nee Penfold ....
deb
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Two marriages here with the women getting a bit long in the tooth...if it's our two???
Sophia Penfold to a Manley in 1919 Okehampton!!
Fiance Penfold to a Richards in Truro "Bah" I havn't written the date down....
Another thought on Missia,there is a birth for a Missella in 1903 do you think that's the proper way of saying it,because I can't find a Missia anywhere..
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so John was b. 1809 Warminster & Robert b. 1816 Wiltshire
i would hazard a geuss that there were children in between!
i looked on IGI there a few John Penfolds/Pinfolds b. 1809 (4)but not Warminster, i'm geussing the p.ob. was taken from the census. or do you have his christening details. was he even christened???
what we need is someone on here with access to the Warminster bapt. & marriages and even deaths pre 1837
i think this is Robert in 1881:~
RG11 2086 159 22
Hod Hill Lane Shilling Okeford Sturminster
Robert Penfold 65 b. Bremer Wilthsire brushmaker (making him b. 1816)
Amelia 65 wife b. Canterbury brushmaker
Elizabeth 21 dau. b. Burton Dorset brushmaker
Priscillia 18 dau. b. Ibberton Dorset brushmaker
one good thing with your travellers you can see where they lived almost every year by the births of their children!
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Hi Hepburn
Miselli is a family name ..... so I think that Missia=Miselli is a good one
Guess what ....
re; John Pinfold ...I have scribbles about him ...supposedly he was the s/o John Pinfold and Charlotte... I have no proof.
John Pinfold (b c 1809) had a brother ...Robert who married an Amelia ....
I will find the details ...maybe we can figure it out working from the 2 brothers ... ? :-\
deb
Okay Robert is the supposed brother of My John Pinfold b 1809. In 1861 Robert has Maria Thompson, sister (b Brockners, Hampshire) living with him , born c 1833 Hampshire.
I just found this .....
IGI
Maria Penfold christened 3 jul 1831, Brockenhurst, Hampshire (batch 1013764) Parents John Penfold and Charlotte
deb.
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Page 63 no 499 Maria daughter of John & Charlotte PENFOLD a traveller and Dealer in Brushes, July 31 1831
Hampshire parish record
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Sorry Deb,
I didn't realise you'd pipped at the post with that..
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http://www.knightroots.co.uk/parishes.htm
this was my source..
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hee hee Hepburn ... I am getting excited .... if we can prove that Robert and John are brothers ...then I can say John Penfold and Charlotte are mine .... ;D ;D
I have no idea if John was even baptised . Iam sure he would have been ... they were pretty good about doing that ...but were on the move so much that even though he may have been born in Warminster , he may have been baptised somewhere else ...maybe along with newer siblings .... hope I am making sense ...
deb
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it would appear these are connected although i am not sure how maybe grandchildern of Thomas:~
Missellie Penfold died age 1 Newton Abbot Q1 1908 5b 97 her birth ? (the only Mis* Penfoldi coudl find in teh full BMD 1866-1920), Q4 1903 St Columb 5c 72
so in Cornwall 1903 in Devon 1908?
birth, Sophia Penfold mmn. Orchid Q1 1913 South Molton 5b 663
hi Hepburn i posted this earlier! she is the only missellie i can find ???
Well Done Deb, i thought perhaps Maria was Amelias sister but not the case she belongs to Robert & John.
ii have noticed that often the children pf your Penfolds were spread over a period of 20 years or so, with that basis i would suggest that John was one fo the first children and Maria perhaps one of the last born to John & Charlotte
and dealer in brushes pretty good match with son Roberts occupation esp. in 1881 census.
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re.... Miselli Penfold
William penfold (s/o Thomas Penfold and Sophia Orchard ) who married bessie Palmer also had a daughter called Miselli..... my mum said she died young ... There is a birth for a Annie Miselle Penfold c 1806 ... I need to check
Missia/Miselli Penfold , d/o Thomas penfold and Sophia Orchard was b c 1890.
I am a little confused with the Devon bit ...as they all stayed in Cornwall, Truro
deb :-\
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George SEVILLE widr. Otp & Lydia PENFOLD Wid. Otp married 05-Feb 1821
Any Sherborne Penfolds in your lot Deb??
Sorry Toni,I can't get my head around all these Penfolds so I'm chucking in anything ;D
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howdi doodi all... have been really busy but your penfolds are discombobulating me something serious ::)
thanks for the great summary ..
Debz
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arrgghhhh ...I keep getting thrown out of RC :-\ :-\
Back again .. ;D
Debzzz ...... They make me discombolulated and they are MINE ! :o :o ::)
Hepburn... I don't think mine are from Sherborne ,,,maybe extended family :-\
I found this on IGI submitted...
JOhn Pinfold = Charlotte Jane Brooks
4 oct 1792, Steyning Sussex ....
When I look for their children ...They are all born Sussex ...except for Maria and a few others ....NO John or Robert ...
deb
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Deb,
have sent you a PM,I keep getting thrown out..
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Hi Hepburn ....
I am pasting it to here so everyone can see...
Deb,
for some reason I can't post a reply,or go back on the posts to check something out ???so here goes with this info' which I don't know if it's way off beam..
Robert Penfold Christened in Farnhurst Essex March 10 1810,parents James and Charlotte nee Belton...
could be, could be :D although age is out .... Can you find one for John 1809ish with same parents?
deb :)
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maria Penfold born Brockenhusrt 3 july 1831 d/o John and Charlotte
batch 101 3764
taken me 30 mins to get on here ::)
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sorry...Brockenhurst hampshire that is ... ;D
hiya Debz , having probs with getting on to RC today.
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arrgghhhh ...I keep getting thrown out of RC :-\ :-\
Back again .. ;D
Debzzz ...... They make me discombolulated and they are MINE ! :o :o ::)
Hepburn... I don't think mine are from Sherborne ,,,maybe extended family :-\
I found this on IGI submitted...
JOhn Pinfold = Charlotte Jane Brooks
4 oct 1792, Steyning Sussex ....
When I look for their children ...They are all born Sussex ...except for Maria and a few others ....NO John or Robert ...
deb
yes i found that too Debs, but it looks like that family stayed in Sussex just going on the children bapt. on IGI
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arrghhhh ... just got back in again ::)
If we could find robert and Amelia Penfold and John and Harriet Penfold in 1841 and 1851 ...we may find more siblings ... I have looked for John and Charlotte .... to no avail :-\ :'(
deb
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i found the charlotte brooks one but i thought John Penfold camre from Hampshire ??? ???
i'm totally lost ... no matter how i try ::) and i keep getting thrown out too...i can't take the rejection :'(
Debz
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i've tried allsorts to find 1851 census for harriet and Thomas since we started .... nowt >:(
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hi Debzzz
Thay are driving me crazy ..... ::) John Penfold b 1809 Warminster , Robert Penfold also b Warminster, Maria penfold b Hampshire. Maria was with Robert in 1861...she was Maria Thompson , sister. So if we can prove Robert and John are brothers , then John and Charlotte would be their parents .... :-\
I do not have baptisms of John b 1809 Warminster ... he may not have been baptised there as they all moved around ...he could have been baptised anywhere along with other siblings........ ::) :o :(
we need a Warminster person ..... calling Warminster people ,,,, please find John and Robert's baptisms .............. ;D
deb
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ooo ...i have the record of John penfold's marriage to Harriet James ...Pimperne Dorset......
John penfold OTP and harriet James OTP were married in this church by Banns with consent of .................? 2 august 1831. both signed their mark.
that doesn't help us either :-\
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yes Deb...that's what i understood ...glad i'm not going mad then...i mis read the SUSSEX ref.....course it does not help me doing this and being at work ::)
Debz
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I am looking in the right place arn't I ?Warminster is in Wiltshire..
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ummmmm......
John Penfold and Harriet James had (amongst others) these kids;
Alfred b c 1850 Somerset , Chalton?
henry b c 1852 Somerset , Bridgewater
Edward b c 1853 Cornwall, Dubbwalls
so in 1851 they had to be in somerset somewhere. I cannot find a Bridgewater in Somerset or Devon ...am I going mad .....??? :-\
deb
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Robert in 1881 says he was b. Bremer. (still Wilts)
OTP when married just means they were living there when married not necessarily b. there
oh there are technical problems Trystan is fixing them ;D
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Hepburn ...gold star for you ;D :D ,,,yes Warminster is Wiltshire .... I need a map :-\ I keep on going to ancestry and putting in place names just to find out where they are .... ::) :P
deb
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i thought there was a Bridgewater in Somerset too ???
ah ha there is it is spelt Bridgwater (no E onthe end of Bridge)
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Oh thank you for that Toni ;D I thought I was going blood* bonkers ...isn't there a Bridgwater in Devon too?
deb
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Possible issue of John & Harriet James.
John (Q1,1837,Kingsclere,7,81)
Sarah (Q4,1838, Brighton,7,310)
Tom (Q1,1840, Midhurst,7,385)
Charlotte (Q3, 1846,Worthing,7,544)
Christopher (Q2,1845, Midhurst,7,414)
Alfred (Q2,1848,Lewes,7,116)
Henry (Q2,1851, Worthing,7,592)
Edward (Q1,1853,Worthing,2b,286)
Possible issue of Thomas & Sophia Orchard.
Fiance (Q3,1872,Redruth,5c,240)
Christopher (Q3,1877,Redruth,5c,222)
Nelson (Q1, 1883,St. Columb,5c,93)
Harriet (Q3,1891, Bideford,5b,492)
Genie
These might help remind us ...LOL ...thanks again to Genie ;D
deb
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Hi maybe we should try a change of james ...just to confuse the issue and keep us on our toes ..... maybe we should look into Harriets background and see if any Penfolda or Orchards were involved LOL ;D 8)
Thomas James married Harriet PALMER 23RD DEC 1808 Kingsclere Hants
Could they be harriet James parents??
thanks for this debzzz :)
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sorry how old was Harriet (James) again in the census i.e when & where was she b. trying to find her on IGI
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Toni ...she seems to change her POB .. these are the only 2 censuses of her we can find ....
I think she was born Kingclere , John her husband b Warminster ....
1861:
RG9/1601 Folio 40 Page 30
Minehead
John Penford Head 52 Travelling Hawker b. Warminster
Harriett Penford Wife 49 ... this should be Kingclere ? forgot where it is ? :-\ not BerKhire though!
Thomas Penford Son 20 b. Dorset Poole
Christopher Penford Son 18 b. Somerset Taunton
Elizabeth Penford 16 Daughter b. Dorset Gladford (sic)
Alfred Penford 13 son b. Somerset Chalton
Henry Penford 10 son b. Somerset Bridgewater
Edward Penford 8 son b. Cornwall Dobbwalls
1871
Lamerton, Devon
'Caravan' on Collacombe Downs
PENFOLD Harriet, Widow, 58, Licensed Hawker, b Wiltshire Warminster
Do Elizabeth, Daur, Unm, 24, Lic Hawker, b Dorset Stourminster
Do Alfred, Son, Unm, 22, Lic Hawker, b Somerset Marston
Do Henry, Son, Unm, 20, Lic Hawker, b Somerset Bridgewater
Do Edward, Son, Unm, 18, Lic Hawker, b Cornwall Dubwalls
Do William, Grandson, 8, b Devon Plymouth
GUESS Charlotte, Granddaughter, 11, b Devon Paignton ...d/o Henry Gess and Charlotte PENFOLD , d/o John and Harriet
HUGHES Ocean, Visitor, Unm, 20, Lic Hawker, b Devon Honiton she married Henry Penfold s/o John and Harriet.
JAMES Joseph, Nephew, 18, Lic Hawker, b Somerset Taunton
I wonder where my Thomas b c 1841 (who married Sophia Orchard) was in 1861 ? :-\
deb
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Toni ...she seems to change her POB .. these are the only 2 censuses of her we can find ....
I think she was born Kingclere , John her husband b Warminster ....
I wonder where my Thomas b c 1841 (who married Sophia Orchard) was in 1861 ? :-\
deb
thanks im not sure if i will be able to find her, but i wil look!
i have access to Phillimores marriage index if you need some look ups on there (i have looked for this family but couldntfind anything that jumped otu at me.
i cant help you with Thomas in 1861 i only have access to the free 1881 census (and whats on Freecen.)
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Toni ...
Thanks for your help :D
what is Phillimores??
deb
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Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
-
Hi
I have just found some older research ... that was sent to me ....
The clue started with JOSEPH JAMES< NEWPHEW .... who is with Harriet Penfold nee James in 1871...
Joseph James is the s/o Thomas and Mary Ann James ...1861 census.
1851;
Corscombe Dorset
James, Thomas 61 b 1790 Gypsy NK
James, Harriet 64 Nk
1861Chickerell Dorset
Thomas james 72 Norrington, Hampshire Tinman
Harriet James 77 Newbury Buckinghamshire
Rebecca James 31 dau Busbridge Wiltshire
John James gr son devon
the info I have is that Thomas James and Harriet had
Harriet James b 1814 = John Penfold
Thomas James b 1815 = Mary Holland (another BIG gypsy family)
Priscilla James b 1816
John James b 1819
rebecca b 1830
there has to be a few more in between John and Rebecca
deb
Mary James 2 Poole dorset
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I need a map,amend earlier post where I said Farnhurst was in Essex.....it's in Sussex..
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Toni ...thanks for that ...so glad my counties are covered ...Devon and Cornwall :)
Hepburn .... I think we both need BIG maps ...LOL ...thanks for that ...Sussex is where a lot of the Gypsies established themselves ... sounds more feasible than Essex ...maybe at last we have Charlottes maiden name ;D :D
deb
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http://romany.rootschat.net/
can't remember if I posted this ;D
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Hi Deb,
when I'm looking for a place, for quick ref. I use:-
http://www.multimap.com/
Your family seem to favour Sussex, Hampshire, Dorset, Somerset and Devon. It's my impression they moved westward with each generation.
Are you managing to save all these bits in some semblance of order? ;D :D ;D
Genie
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there were these Pinfold marriages in Wiltshire on Phillimores (none for Penfold in Wiltshire)
PINFOLD Charles 27-Dec-1632 FRANKLIN Joan by the Curate of Aldrington at Sherston Magna
PINFOLD Giles 6-Apr-1702 WAKE Margaret botp at Ashley
PINFOLD Mr.joseph of Hampton co. Glos 2-Jun-1720 WILD Mrs.ann at Colerne (geuss this was a second marriage for Ann at least if not both)
PINFOLD Thomas 5-Oct-1640 LEWES Agnes at Preshute
EDINGTON John 8-Nov-1630 PINFOLD Alice widow at Idmiston
HERBERT Edward 28-Oct-1701 PINFOLD Mary at Crudwell
MORSE Thomas of Stanton 24-Aug-1704 PINFOLD Mary of Purton Stoke at Eisey
i don't know if those marriages help or not :-\
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Hi Guys ...
I posted on the other thread ...just to thank Maidmarionoops... I think this thread is going to wind up on the Travellers Board so , we'll keep all the new stuff on here ......
Genie Thanks for the map ...great stuff...:)
Did you notice , Toni, That Thomas JAMES and Harriet (arrgghhh ) not another one were born in Hampshire and Buckinghamshire ... I wonder where they married ... need the map again ...LOL
thanks for the Pinfold marriages ....
Genie .... I don't have to save all of this stuff ...because I can remember in all in my HEAD !! ..........NOT!! ...LOL
deb ;D
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i did notice they were b.Hants & Bucks but i can't find anything will look again later.
just print this all out Debs no need to save it anywhere!
i'm still not convinced the Sussex Penfolds are yours (Charlotte Brooks)
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Deb..... your head isn't big enough :D
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OKAY ..its official .. I am CRAZY :o :o
Debzzzz had already found Harriet Penfold nee James parents ...several pages ago .....
Thomas James married Harriet PALMER 23RD DEC 1808 Kingsclere Hants
Could they be harriet James parents??
It would be nice to klnow who Harriet PALMER's family was and also Thomas James'
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Hi Genie, welcome back :)
Deb..... your head isn't big enough :D
Sure it is ...and if you found a link with the Australian Penfold wine makers it would be even bigger .... ;D
deb
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OKAY ..its official .. I am CRAZY :o :o
Debzzzz had already found Harriet Penfold nee James parents ...several pages ago .....
Thomas James married Harriet PALMER 23RD DEC 1808 Kingsclere Hants
Could they be harriet James parents??
It would be nice to klnow who Harriet PALMER's family was and also Thomas James'
in the same batch as Harriets marriage - which is extracted 8)
is this marriage
John Palmer & Dinah Pointer 11 Oct 1787
Kingsclere
what do you guys think?
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Hi Toni
1851
James, Thomas 61 b 1790 Gypsy NK
James, Harriet 64 Nk
1861Chickerell Dorset
Thomas james 72 Norrington, Hampshire Tinman
Harriet James 77 Newbury Buckinghamshire
Rebecca James 31 dau Busbridge Wiltshire
John James gr son devon
So Harriet James nee Palmer was b c 1785-1787 ...did she really know her age ..maybe not ... IT LOOKS GOOD TONI :D
were their other kids .... ?
deb :) :D
added ~ there is no Dinah/Diana name in the family :-\
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This is great guys ... you are so sweet ...
Just a little snippet which may make this all worthwhile ...
My Mother has been to the graves of both Thomas and Sophia Penfold ...and Harriet Penfold nee James d/o Thomas James and Harriet PALMER ... she feels a great affinity to her ... so finding stuff further back is wonderful ..... Strange thing here is that ... My William penfold (1872) married Bessie PALMER .... eekkkk ....
My mother was a Penfold ... no dad ... but guess what , a JAMES adopted her ...
deb
Blimey ...goosebumps!
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Hi guys- so harriet james parents had to be born about 1770 ? So the henry james born 1790 kingclere i found earlier could have been a brother? His parents were Robert and Eleanor.
debz
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Hi Debzzz...
yes , yes .....
got to put the puzzle together ;D
Can't concentrate ... having wine and my husband has been promoted ;D :D
deb ...celebrating
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there is a Harriet Palmer b. Hants 1786 i keep getting drawn back to her (strange)
Harriot Palmer bapt. 09 March 1786 Southampton d/o John Palmer & Jane
she may not be connected to yours at all.
here are her siblings:~
Amelia 27 Oct 1782
Anne 29 Dec 1780
then in the same batch you have
Martha 26 Jan 1772 d/o John & martha
Anne 18 feb 1774 do.
thisis the batch if you want to search it there are other Palmers on there I017250
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Hi deb - i thought that a coincidence about the Palmer when i saw that. I had to re- check where i'd seen Palmer before.
it certainly makes you wonder .
I spoke to my director Ian Penfold and his family were gypsies and from Hampshire ! He is going to talk to his mum.
debz
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THis is fascinating, Deb-twin.....but again I am getting completely lost. Think I need someone to tell me what to search for next! ::) ;D ;D
.....dee
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Debbeee!!!
big Congratulations to Mr Deb..... or are we supposed to salute him ;D
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Same here Dee,just got in and lost again :)
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Debz ..... that's great... maybe your boss's Mum can tie in another branch of the family.
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;D ;D ;D
I've been lost for the paseed 10 pages or so ::) ::) :D
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woohooooo ...mr DEb aka D3=Devil Dog Dave has reached the TOP ....yeyeyeyeye ... ;D
Dee.... Toni is great at Puuting it all together ...we are now looking for the Family of Harriet JAMES = John Penfold...she was b c 1814 d/o Thomas James and Harriet Palmer .... we are putting this puzzle together . We have not forgotten the Penfolds though ....I am still looking for my Thomas Penfold b c 1841 s/o John and Harriet in 1861/71/81. Thomas penfold = Sophia Orchard in 1866 ... eekkk arrghhhh TMI :-X
:-\
deb
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http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/mixedcensus2/4522820103
millions of james's don't know whether you have them all,....Hepburn very very lost!!!!!!!
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Hi Hepburn ...
I too am lost re: Harriet James' Lineage ...have not heard these names before so I am struggling to keep them all together .... I am a little lost too :o
Debzzzz ...ooo imagine if your boss is related to me .... ;D :-X 8)
deb
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Wheeeeeeeeeee well done Dave.. ;D ;D
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TONI .... ;D
we need a summary ... LOL
from William Penfold (1872) s/o Thomas Penfold and Sophia Orchard (married 1866)
Thomas penfold b 1841 s/o John Penfold and Harriet James (married 1832)
John Penfold b 1809 s/o John Penfold and Charlotte ??
Harriet James b 1814 d/o Thomas James and Harriet Palmer
phew ... I promise I had all that in my HEAD ...no cheating , I swear ...
deb :D
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thanks hepburn ...D3 on the phone to his brother who is an ex- Marine .... D3 is sooo excited ...but in a calm way , you understand ...not like me who is putting on "Celebration Tiara" and phoning everyone in the world Hee Hee
deb ;D
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LOL Deb...in the meantime more of these to come,someone please make a connection..
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For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
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For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
there they've been niggling me,Deb,put your husband down and concentrate..
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That last one is from the Kent branch, are they related ???
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Genie,
the post of Deb's did above,does she want marriages for them or census lookups??I need a recap on where they were born..
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;D ;D ;D Like I said.... I'm lost :D
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LOL ;D no you're not I can still see you ;D
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Just a suggestion ............. Is it time for another summary before everyone starts chasing their tails??
Deb, is it possible to collate all the information with dates etc you've managed to find??
Everyone is doing so well, I'd hate for you all to get bogged down and lost. ;D ;D
Barbara
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HOLY MOLY .... :o :o
This is the worst week for me to have my hunt ........... Dave and I off to Marine Corps Ball on Saturday ...I have yet to find something to wear as I have stayed at home pretending that I will be okay with old ball dresses .... holy sh*t ...I am in TROUBLE .....
I will try and make a summary ... hey Barbara ...can you make a summary for me ? Please ....
LOL hee hee .... stressed to no end here ...
deb
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HOLY MOLY .... :o :o
This is the worst week for me to have my hunt ........... Dave and I off to Marine Corps Ball on Saturday ...I have yet to find something to wear as I have stayed at home pretending that I will be okay with old ball dresses .... holy sh*t ...I am in TROUBLE .....
You have my sympathies ............. honest . . :D
I will try and make a summary ... hey Barbara ...can you make a summary for me ? Please ....
You've got to be joking ......ME do a summary....... :o :o :o
LOL hee hee .... stressed to no end here ...
deb
Seeing as Toni* did such an excellent job on the last one I'll ask her nicely, pretty please . ... :D
Barbara
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Barbbbbbbbbbbbb ..I asked TONI very nicely earlier ... she is ignoring me as it is too much work ...
TONI .... ;D
we need a summary ... LOL
from William Penfold (1872) s/o Thomas Penfold and Sophia Orchard (married 1866)
Thomas penfold b 1841 s/o John Penfold and Harriet James (married 1832)
John Penfold b 1809 s/o John Penfold and Charlotte ??
Harriet James b 1814 d/o Thomas James and Harriet Palmer
phew ... I promise I had all that in my HEAD ...no cheating , I swear ...
deb :D
I have sooo much to do ...I have had skin cancer and have to go for a check up for a thingie on my back tomorrow .... geezzzzzz I was going to back out this week , glad I didn't ...you guys have been FAB
I will see what I can do.... deb ;D
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everyone ...THANKS so much for all the imput .... I will try to get a summary ..but as you can see ..life is hectic ... D3 promoted ...phone calls and popping in friend up the ying yang, dermatologist~for thingie on my back tomorrow, Marine corps ball 2hours away ...so away for the weekend, and now have an ear-ache ....I think I may be following in Lydarts ' bad luck ' week .....arrgghhhhh nooooooo
deb ...gotta sleep
love you guys :-* ;D
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Hi Deb
I'll try and talk Toni* into doing a summary for you, she did such a good job last time I'll see what I can do.
You take care of yourself do you hear . .. .. don't be doing too much and good luck with the 'thingy' on your back.
Have a glass of wine dear and calm down. Enjoy the MC ball and ignore the earache, take the phone off the hook and put a note on the door . .. no-one home.
Relax.
Barbara
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Barbbbbbbbbbbbb ..I asked TONI very nicely earlier ... she is ignoring me as it is too much work ...TONI .... ;D
we need a summary ... LOL
from William Penfold (1872) s/o Thomas Penfold and Sophia Orchard (married 1866)
Thomas penfold b 1841 s/o John Penfold and Harriet James (married 1832)
John Penfold b 1809 s/o John Penfold and Charlotte ??
Harriet James b 1814 d/o Thomas James and Harriet Palmer
phew ... I promise I had all that in my HEAD ...no cheating , I swear ...
deb :D
Hi i wasn't ignoring you i was asleep zzzzzzzzz !
will read through from last summary and get back to you in a bit :)
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Toni .......... you're an angel ............ :-* :-* :-*
Barbara
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Robert is brother to John 1809 so the others in Hod Hill LAne i geuss were related too great find Hepburn - well done i found Robert but not he others!
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son of Robert b. 1816
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Roberts son Thomas (same age as this one) says he was b. Exeter what do you think as this Thomas was also living in the same site as Robert & brother James
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son of Robert again! so my geuss is Thomas is also the son of Robert although p.o.b is incorrect or is it perhaps it was incorrect on an earlier census!
so living at Hod Hill Lane in 1881 we have Robert with hs wife and two daughters and on the same site but in separate caravans we have Robert sons Thomas James and Henry great!
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lets see if we can follow this new summary :-\ oh er
John Penfold m. Charlotte Unknown (possibly Brooks)
children:
John b. 1809 m. Harriet James
Robert b.1816 m. Amelia Page
Maria b. 1831 m ... Thomson
(missing children)
John Pinfold (sic) 1809 warminster m. Harriett James b.1814 Warminster, 02 Aug 1831 Pimperne Dorset (source IGI batch M159791)
Children:~
Robert b.1832 m. Fiamce Smith Sarah Harriet (do i have this right?)
John b. 1834 m. married Charlotte
William b, 1836 m. Diane Sophie Hewson
Thomas - b.1841 m. Sophia/Soffia Orchard
Charlotte b. 1838 m. Henry Geuss/Gess 1858
Elizabeth (Betsy) b. 1845/6 m. Edwin Orchard b. 1844 Ledbury m on 15 April 1871
Alfredb.1849 m. Lousia small (b.1851) m. 15 April 1871
Henry b.1851/52 Bridgwater m. Ocean HUghes (b 1851 Honiton)
Edward b.1853 m. Rachel Holland
Robert b. 1816 Bremer Wilts m. Amelia Page (source IGI) 26 dec 1836 Bishops Waltham, Hampshire
children:
Robert M 1838 born Southhampton
(missing children)
Thomas 1849 born Exeter "
James 1850 born Bridgewater
Ollof 1853 born Withridge
Henry 1855 born Yeovil
Elizabeth 1859 born Dorchester
Pricilla 6 monthes on the census on 1861 so makes her b. late 1860 , yes?
1881 census for Robert
RG11 2086 159 22
Hod Hill Lane Shilling Okeford Sturminster
Robert Penfold 65 b. Bremer Wilthsire brushmaker (making him b. 1816)
Amelia 65 wife b. Canterbury brushmaker
Elizabeth 21 dau. b. Burton Dorset brushmaker
Priscillia 18 dau. b. Ibberton Dorset brushmaker
Maria bapt. 3 jul 1831, Brockenhurst, Hampshire (batch 1013764) m. ...... Thompson (source 1861 census)
1861 living with brother Robert
Maria Thompson age 29 born Brockners, Hampshire sister and hawker
Henry 6 born Prath nephew (of Robert)
Thomas b. 1841 m. Sophia / Soffia Orchard b. circa 1846 in Q2 1866 South Molton Devon 5b 833 (source BMD)
children:~
William circa 1871
Defiance 1872c.
John 1874c.
Christoanna 1875c.
Christopher 1877c.
Edward 1879c.
Soffia 1881c.
Nelson 1883c.
Elizabeth 1885c.
Harriet 1887c.
Missia 1890c.
Selina 1891c. bapt. 22.Feb 1891 Par Cornwall (under Pinfold, source IGI)
(source 1891 census)
Charlotte 1838 m. Henry Gess in 1891 were in Battersea with children Mary age 16 b. Helston, Rebecca 14 b. Plymouth & Alfred 9 b. Helston
Henry b. 1851 m. Ocean Hughes had a lot of children Betsy, Defiance, Orfius John Noah Vashti Albert Leonard (leonard m. another Sophia Orchard) sophie william & caroline
1881 census for Thomas PENFOLD Head M Male 30 Weymouth, Brushmaker
Patience Wife M Female 28 Shoreham, Brushmaker
Patience Daur Female 9 Weymouth, Brushmaker
Robert P Son Male 5 Moreden,
Elizabeth Daur Female 6 m Farnham,
Hod Hill Lane
Shilling Okeford, Dorset, England
RG11 2086 160 23
1881 census for James PENFOLD Head M Male 27 BridgwaterBrushmaker
Priscilla Wife M Female 24 Portsmouth, Brushmaker
Priscilla Daur Female 6 Chard,
John Son Male 5 Cerne,
Patience Daur Female 3 Weymouth,
Hod Hill Lane
Shilling Okeford, Dorset, England
RG11 2086 160 23
i know where to go to get a new brush! continued........
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Toni ............ you're brilliant.
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Robert b. 1816 Bremer Wilts m. Amelia Page (source IGI) 26 dec 1836 Bishops Waltham, Hampshire
children:
Robert M 1838 born Southhampton
(missing children)
Thomas 1849 born Exeter "
James 1850 born Bridgewater
Ollof 1853 born Withridge
Henry 1855 born Yeovil
Elizabeth 1859 born Dorchester
Pricilla 6 monthes on the census on 1861 so makes her b. late 1860 , yes?
1881 census for Henry
Henry PENFOLD Head M Male 23 Yeovil, Brushmaker
Charlotte Wife M Female 22 Portsmouth, Brushmaker
Henry Son Male 6 Gosport,
William Son Male 5 Weymouth, None
Charlotte Daur Female 3 Bridport,
Amelia Daur Female 4 m Southampton,
Hod Hill Lane
Shilling Okeford, Dorset, England
RG11 2086 / 159 22
Thomas b. 1841 m. Sophia / Soffia Orchard b. circa 1846 in Q2 1866 South Molton Devon 5b 833 (source BMD)
children:~
William circa 1871 m. Bessie Small
Defiance 1872c.
John 1874c.
Christoanna 1875c.
Christopher 1877c.
Edward 1879c.
Soffia 1881c.
Nelson 1883c.
Elizabeth 1885c.
Harriet 1887c.
Missia 1890c.
Selina 1891c. bapt. 22.Feb 1891 Par Cornwall (under Pinfold, source IGI)
(source 1891 census)
William b. 1871 m. Bessie Small - Debs please fill in details re children. etc.
beginning colour cycle again
John 1874c. m. Ellen Small
children:~
Mark, Eliza John Vashtie Missellie Genty Edward Priscilla Harriet Sophie Helen
(for some reason i do not have d/p.ob???)
Christiana 1875c. Cornwall Grampound m. William Orchard s/o John Orchard & Sarah Q1 1898 St Austell (source BMD)
children:~
Edmund 1900c Calstock
Joseph 1901c Mary Tavy
Christopher 1877 m. Carnation Richards 14 Nov 1903 , child : Edward/Eddy he was 3 when his mum died.
Carnation Richards d/o Justinyen/Justinian Richards, she died age 23 , 17 jan 1906 , of acute TB
Christopher Penfold then married for a 2nd time ...to Mariah/Maria BOSWELL
Edward 1879c m. Florence Mabel Whitcombe from Meare in 1913 Florence d. 1917 and Edward remarried Elizabeth Whitcombe
Nelson b.1883 m. 1904 to Lavinia Richards or Hannah Rush (need to cert to confirm who but there are briths for Penfold/Richards children 1911-1920 but none for Penfold/Rush)
Elizabeth b c 1885 = William Orchard 1908, Stratton Cornwall
Harriett 1887 m. William Small 1915 Plymouth (source Romanygenes) sorry ishe could have been this marriage :-\Harriett Penfold Henry Buckland 1896 Plympton/ Devon (Father Tenant Buckland )
Selina Penfold 1891 Joshua Buckland 1887 Totnes Devon ( father was Plato Buckland ) (Source Romanygenes)
Genty Penfold m. John Albert James s/o Vashtie James
children:
John William Vashtie Jenty Liberty
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
so we need info. on these penfolds:~
deaths for all of them!
children of Robert b.1832
do. John 1834 & also his wifes Charlotte maiden name
do. William b.1836
do. Elizabeth (Betsey) 1845/6
do. Alfred b.1849
do. Edward b.1853
Marr. & Death children of Robert b. 1838
do. Ollof b. 1853
do. Henry 1855
do. Elizabeth 1859
do. Priscilla 1860
do. Defiance 1872
do. Soffia 1881
do. Missia / Missellie 1890
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and we have these marriages not all accounted for:~
Christina Penfold William Orchard 1898 St Austell
Edward Mary Ann 1899 Tavistock
Eliza Henry Bundle 1879 Truro
Eliza Wiiliam Orchard 1908 Stratton
Fiance Andrew Richards 1915 Truro
John Maria Crocker 1882 St Austell
John Caroline Orchard 1906 Bodmin
Alfred Louisa Small 1871 Plymouth
Charlotte Henry Gess 1855 Plymouth
Christopher Patience Guest 1864 Plymouth
Christopher Maria Boswell 1910 Plymouth
Christopher Sally Hughes 1915 Torrington Devon
Elizabeth Edwin Orchard 1871 Plymouth
Elizabeth Gough Smith 1890 Barnstaple
Harriett William Small 1915 Plymouth
Leonard Sophia Orchard 1912 Exeter
Mary Ann Fred Smith 1881 Chard
Pricilla William Orchard 1874 St Thomas Devon
Rachel Robert Small 1905 Devonport
Thomas Sophia Orchard 1866 South Molton Devon
William Patience Orchard 1912 Exeter
Faithful James orchard 1914 Dorchester
Harriett Penfold Henry Buckland 1896 Plympton/ Devon (Father Tenant Buckland )
Selina Penfold Joshua Buckland 1887 Totnes Devon ( father was Plato Buckland )
William Penfold Jenty Buckland 1887 Plymouth ( Father Plato Buckland)
James Penfold Sophy Buckland 1887 Plymouth( Father Plato Buckland)
can anyone match them up to the correct Penfolds????
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edward Penfold =Mary Ann Orchard is s/o Thomas Penfold and Sophia Orchard ...he is the brother to my William penfold =Bessie Palmer.
Christopher Penfold (witness) =Carnation Richards and Maria Boswell ...he is also S/o Thomas and Sophia
Eliza Penfold (witness) = William Orchard ...she is d/o Thomas Penfold and Sophia Orchard
better do some housework now be bk later!
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wooohooooo Toni ...Thank you sooo much ... ;D
changes: :-\
John Pinfold (sic) 1809 warminster m. Harriett James b.1814 Warminster, 02 Aug 1831 Pimperne Dorset (source IGI batch M159791)
Children:~
Robert b.1832 m. Fiamce Smith Sarah Harriet (do i have this right?)
Robert Married Fiance Smith
Sarah Harriet ...is another daughter....
supposedly she was baptised 3 nov 1833 in St Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex inder the name Pennifold :-\
deb :)
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Toni ....i can't keep up LOL ...you are great .... :-*
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Toni ......... yer a marvel gel ...........fantastic. ;D ;D ;D
Barbara
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wooohooooo Toni ...Thank you sooo much ... ;D
changes: :-\
John Pinfold (sic) 1809 warminster m. Harriett James b.1814 Warminster, 02 Aug 1831 Pimperne Dorset (source IGI batch M159791)
Children:~
Robert b.1832 m. Fiamce Smith Sarah Harriet (do i have this right?)
Robert Married Fiance Smith
Sarah Harriet ...is another daughter....
supposedly she was baptised 3 nov 1833 in St Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex inder the name Pennifold :-\
deb :)
i thought that was a funny name!! :D
we need details for her then too
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William circa 1871 m. Bessie Small
Defiance 1872c.
John 1874c.
Christoanna 1875c.
Christopher 1877c.
Edward 1879c.
Soffia 1881c.
Nelson 1883c.
Elizabeth 1885c.
Harriet 1887c.
Missia 1890c.
Selina 1891c. bapt. 22.Feb 1891 Par Cornwall (under Pinfold, source IGI)
(source 1891 census)
William b. 1871 m. Bessie Small - Debs please fill in details re children. etc.
beginning colour cycle again
quick correction ..... William Penfold married Bessie PALMER
deb :)
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marriage matching
Christopher Penfold to Patience Guest - 1864 Plymouth
should be these
1871 - Travelling van, Dean Prior, Devon (RG10/2096 folio 119 pg 17)
Penfold
Christopher - head - 26 - Brush man - Seaton?
Patience - wife - 27 - Seaton?
John - son - 6 - Plymouth
Patience - dau - 11mths - Torquay
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i was bound to get muddled somewhere! lol
glad you are correcting the mistakes otherwie we would all go off on the wrong trail.
re Sarah Harriet being b. brighton would give a clear link to Sussex and maybe then to Charlotte Brooks,
i see John b.1809 had a dau. named Charlotte perhaps after her grandmother
kitchen is clean now to do the bathrooms!
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And when you've done those you can start on mine ......... do you do windows??
Barbara
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marriage matching
Christopher Penfold to Patience Guest - 1864 Plymouth
should be these
1871 - Travelling van, Dean Prior, Devon (RG10/2096 folio 119 pg 17)
Penfold
Christopher - head - 26 - Brush man - Seaton?
Patience - wife - 27 - Seaton?
John - son - 6 - Plymouth
Patience - dau - 11mths - Torquay
great work - so if we find a 6 year old Christopher on the 1851 census we would know who he belongs to (hopefully)
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And when you've done those you can start on mine ......... do you do windows??
Barbara
he he he
not very often and only if they are downstairs!
bk later
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And when you've done those you can start on mine ......... do you do windows??
Barbara
he he he
not very often and only if they are downstairs!
bk later
Drats .................. ::) ::) ::)
Barbara
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Is this Christina Penfold/William Orchard 1898 St Austell marriage individuals.
1901 - Northcombe Moors (caravan), Uplyme, Devon (RG13/2121 folio 8 pg 8)
Orchard
William - head - 31 - Licensed Hawker - Pinhol, Devon
Christina - wife - 26 - Grampound, Cornwall
Edmund - son - 1 - Calstock, Cornwall
Joseph - son - 4mths - Mary Tavy? Devon
Sarah - mother - wid - 64 - Sherly, Hampshire
Edmund Spargo - b in law - 30 - licensed hawker - Stoke Climsland, Cornwall
Harriett ditto - sister - 34 - Hemjock, Cornwall
i really don't know about the places of birth or the in laws surname! twirly writing hard to read!
<amended Edmunds surname>
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and again in 1881 (RG11/2416 folio 49 pg 11)
Killing Lane, Chapel Allerton, Somerset
Orchard
John - head - 45 - Travelling hawker - Chaffecombe, somerset
Sarah - wife - 44 - southampton
Henry - son - 24 - Chaffcombe
Harriett - dau - 20 - culmstock
Joseph - son - 18 - ditto
Thomas - son - 16 - Stogursey? Somerset
William - son - 12 - Pinhoe
Annie Sophia - niece - 18 - culmstock
John - nephew - 16 - stogursey? Somerset
Fiance - niece - 13 - Honiton, Devon
Rachael Holland - niece - 7 - Carhampton, Somerset
Sarah Holland - niece - 4 - Bichnolla? Somerset
Percilla Penful - niece - 20 - Dorcester, Dorset
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Robert b. 1816 Bremer Wilts m. Amelia Page (source IGI) 26 dec 1836 Bishops Waltham, Hampshire
children:
Robert M 1838 born Southhampton
(missing children)
Thomas 1849 born Exeter "
James 1850 born Bridgewater
Ollof 1853 born Withridge
Henry 1855 born Yeovil
Elizabeth 1859 born Dorchester
Pricilla 6 monthes on the census on 1861 so makes her b. late 1860 , yes?
so the percilla in 1881 (niece) is the one above in 1861 d/o Robert and Amelia
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summary ....
William PENFOLD =Bessie PALMER Cornwall , Falmouth 8 jan 1898
Children:
John b 1897 d 1922
Christianna b june q 1898 d Sept q 1898
Thomas b sept q 1899 Truro
Christopher b Mar q 1901 Truro
Sophia b sept q 1902 =william Barron
William b sept q 1904 Truro
Edward b Mar 1908 Truro
Nelson b June q 1910 Truro = Pearlie Hawkins
Walter b Jun 1912 Truro = no.1 Marjorie?? (3 kids), no.2 Muriel?? (2 kids)
Violet Venie b 19 March 1914 = Thomas Philip James my grandparents
Stanley Moses b 1815
There were other children too ... Miselli who supposedly died young,
Minnie died 2001
Renie Penfold b ?? = Bill Crutchley
Harold b 1920 ?
I will have to look further as I think there were 17 children in all
deb :-\
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Is this Christina Penfold/William Orchard 1898 St Austell marriage individuals.
1901 - Northcombe Moors (caravan), Uplyme, Devon (RG13/2121 folio 8 pg 8)
Orchard
William - head - 31 - Licensed Hawker - Pinhol, Devon
Christina - wife - 26 - Grampound, Cornwall
Edmund - son - 1 - Calstock, Cornwall
Joseph - son - 4mths - Mary Tavy? Devon
Sarah - mother - wid - 64 - Sherly, Hampshire
Edmund Spargs? - b in law - 30 - licensed hawker - Stoke Climsland, Cornwall
Harriett ditto - sister - 34 - Hemjock, Cornwall
i really don't know about the places of birth or the in laws surname! twirly writing hard to read!
Christiana 1875c. Cornwall Grampound m. William Orchard s/o John Orchard & Sarah Q1 1898 St Austell (source BMD)
children:~
Edmund 1900c Calstock
Joseph 1901c Mary Tavy
yep that looks like them :) but who are Edmund & Harriett? not Penfolds as Harriet was b. 1887 possibly Sarah Harriet? but she was b. Brighton? and it was Edward Penfold not Edmund
a Rachel Holland married Edward Penfold b. 1853, is she the one you found in 1881? maybe the ages are too wide apart i don't know a lot about Rachel Holland perhaps Debs can fill us in there
could it be William sister harriet married Edmund? but she says she was b. 1861 Culmstock ??? ???
Percilla Penfull niece - looks v. promising they have been mistrancribed before now!
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Just as a point of interest ........... Toni and David, would you like your names added to the Scavenger Hunt list??
Barbara
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I've decided that the p.o.b's aren't worth looking at ::)
Traced William Orchard back to 1861 and the whole family doesn't have a consistant p.o.b!
In 1861 John and Sarah Orchard with children Henry and Harriett living in a caravan at Rose and Crown Yard, Porlock, Somerset with John's brother Thomas aged 27 born Salisbury (Wilts) and Thomas's wife Charlotte aged 23 born Devizes (Wilts)
David
Yes please add me to scavenger list!!
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Done .......... I'll amend the list tomorrow.
Barbara
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Isn't Scavanger hunt great,everyone chipping in to help...
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You're on the list Hepburn, hope you've got a challenge for us!!!
Barbara
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I think it probably was William's sister Harriett Orchard (ages on census just wrong)
Harriett Orchard married Edmund Spargo - St Germans, mar qtr 1898, 5c 73
there's a new surname for the pot!
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[
Is this Christina Penfold/William Orchard 1898 St Austell marriage individuals.
1901 - Northcombe Moors (caravan), Uplyme, Devon (RG13/2121 folio 8 pg 8)
Orchard
William - head - 31 - Licensed Hawker - Pinhol, Devon
Christina - wife - 26 - Grampound, Cornwall
Edmund - son - 1 - Calstock, Cornwall
Joseph - son - 4mths - Mary Tavy? Devon
Sarah - mother - wid - 64 - Sherly, Hampshire
Edmund Spargs? - b in law - 30 - licensed hawker - Stoke Climsland, Cornwall
Harriett ditto - sister - 34 - Hemjock, Cornwall
i really don't know about the places of birth or the in laws surname! twirly writing hard to read!
Harriet ORCHARD = Edmund SPARGO
mar q 1898 St Germans , Cornwall
deb
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what a good idea please add me to the list
do i only get one surname?
wojciechowskyj ??? my grandad came to the UK from the Ukraine in 1948 i can't get any further back then him. :(
probaly best to do Holmans info. more easily available
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Just a thought...........should we be looking for anyone on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission lists? There are 90 Penfolds for WW1 and 51 Penfolds for WW2
Nanny Jan
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1891 - RG12/1810 folio 77 pg 19
John and Sarah Orchard living Fore Down, St Cleer, Cornwall
children:
Harriett - 30 - Exeter, Devon
Thomas - 26 - Bristol
William - 22 - Exeter
Rachel - 18 - Widdecombe
Sally - 13 - Williton
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Just a thought...........should we be looking for anyone on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission lists? There are 90 Penfolds for WW1 and 51 Penfolds for WW2
Nanny Jan
hadnt thought of that!
trouble is they never stayed put so we don't know where they enlisted or what place of birth they gave
do we have Frederick Penfold somewhere ???
PENFOLD Frederick
Birth - NEWTON ABBOT DEVON
Enlistment - EXETER DEVON
Place of Residence - none given
Soldier Number - 110577
Rank - GUNNER
Killed in Action
Place of death - F & F
Date of Death ( 4/10/1917
Regiment - ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY ROYAL HORSE AND ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY SECTION 4 (O-S)
Battalion - IMPERIAL CAMEL CORPS
Service - ARMY
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Toni ..... ;D..... Your HOLMANS ...arrgghhhhhhhhhh :o ;D ;D
Nanny jan ... John penfold b 1897 went to WW1 ...but came back and died of Pneumonia :'(
William Penfold (who married Bessie Palmer) was in a war, but we have been told it was the Boer war .... :-\
Don't know of any others ...but a lot of the Penfold'ds did join up ...usually looked after the Horses and such .... they were really great 'vets' ....
deb
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No fredericks that I know of .... not a family name at all ...
deb
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Toni,
That Frederick Penfold is commemorated on the Tyne Cot Memorial.
Nanny Jan
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i didnt remember seeing a Frederick but most of the Penfolds i could see came from Sussex not Devon / Cornwall etc eway at all.
it only tells me soliders that died so if they went to war and didnt die they wont be listed
yes my Holmans, perish the thought, but i have got quite a lot of info on them now. actually i could pick a more difficult name like Bentley i cant find Thomas with a father Robert in 1851 at all Thomas was b. 1842 Salford i have his marriage cert - anyway im straying from the topic.
btw what time is it there? you seem to be on here 24hrs a day! lol
i wont be here tonight going to a chocolate party mmmmmm
i havnt been to one before hopefulyl you taste and buy chocolate and not spread it on each other
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http://www.cornwall-opc.org/Structure/resources.php
do we have these Penfold baptisms and marriages?
-
Hi guys,
i see you have done loads since yesterday.... i'm not having a good time at the moment so i shall sit this one out for a day or two.
Debz
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I think this is the most likely Leonard Penfold to marry Sophia Orchard 1912 Exeter
1901 - Staditon Moor, North Tawton, Devon (RG13/2126 folio 63 pg6
Penfold (all p.o.b NK)
Henry - head - 49 - Licensed Hawker (gypsy)
Fiance - wife - 48
John - son - 23
Noah - son - 19
Vesty? - dau - 17
Alber - son - 12
Leonard - son - 10
Robert - son - 9
Caroline - dau - 5
Joe - son - 2
be back later need to go hang a door!!
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Parish:
Date:
Name:
Parents:
Residence:
Father's rank/profession:
Register Notes:
Transcriber:
Transcriber Notes:
Madron
15-Oct 1865
Thomas Alfred PENFOLD
Robert Louisa
Sojourner in Madron
Hawker
-
Parish or Registration District:
Date:
GROOM:
Groom's age:
Groom's condition:
Groom's rank/profession:
Groom's residence:
Father:
Father's rank/profession:
BRIDE:
Bride's age:
Bride's condition:
Bride's rank/profession:
Bride's residence:
Father:
Father's rank/profession:
Banns(B) or Licence(L):
Groom Signed(S) or Marked(M):
Bride Signed(S) or Marked(M):
Witness 1:
Witness 2:
Calstock
18-Jul 1899
Edward PENFOLD
21
bachelor
licensed hawker
Calstock
Thomas
licensed hawker
Mary Ann ORCHARD
19
spinster
Calstock
Henry
licensed hawker
banns
M
M
Christopher Penfold
Eliza Penfold
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Hit the delete button in the top right hand corner of the post you want gone. ;D
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Gawd.....I never saw that ;D
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I think this is the most likely Leonard Penfold to marry Sophia Orchard 1912 Exeter
1901 - Staditon Moor, North Tawton, Devon (RG13/2126 folio 63 pg6
Penfold (all p.o.b NK)
Henry - head - 49 - Licensed Hawker (gypsy)
Fiance - wife - 48
John - son - 23
Noah - son - 19
Vesty? - dau - 17
Alber - son - 12
Leonard - son - 10
Robert - son - 9
Caroline - dau - 5
Joe - son - 2
be back later need to go hang a door!!
i wonder if this is Defiance what do you guys think?
got to go to school now to pick up kids
if i'm lucky i will get to go on here before the chocolate party! if not it wil be 2mw
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I din't Toni her age dosn't match...
http://romany.rootschat.net/marriages.htm
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Chris W .S
To Annie Green,my Father was a Penfold from Cornwall,his name was Eddie Penfold,first cousin of Nelson,how do you know us Penfolds? LOL,There was a party every year for the Penfold's Orhards, Richard's ect- down there, but the last one they are having was last year, (lots geting older) shame, it was real kushti, lots of singing dancing and offcorse drinking!! Kushti bokt Chris ws.
Wed Jun 28 15:28:01 2006
Annie Green
Anyone know what happened to the Penfolds who used to live near St Austell? Nelson senior died in the 70's and his son Nelson married Genty and moved away sometime. What happened to the rest of the family?
Wed Jun 28 08:46:36 2006
Still going strong ;D
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Not sure if these have been found/are needed:
Penfold Births with mother Orchard: (found on FreeBMD)
Susanna 1912 Holsworthy
Amy 1913 Okehampton
Defiance 1915 (Jun) unclear
Nelson 1915 (Dec) Axbridge
Betsy 1916 Holsworthy
Thomas 1917 Axbridge
Alfred W 1920 (Mar) Bridgewater
Caroline 1920 (Jun) Crediton
Nanny Jan
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This has to be the same family as 1901 (wife's name is different tho)
1891 - Common moor lane (caravan), South Molton, Devon (RG12/1771 folio 73 pg11)
Penfold
Henry - head - 40 - Licensed Hawker - Bridgwater, Somerset
Ocean - wife - 39 - Ilminster? Somerset
Bessie - dau - 19 - Paington?
Henry - son - 15 - Exeter
Defiance - dau - 13 - Dawlish
John - son - 10 - Braunton?
Vastie - dau - 6 - Ilfracombe
Noah - son - 5 - Paington?
Albert - son - 3 - Ilfracombe
Leonard - son - 1 - Ilfracombe
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and 1881 (RG11/2243 folio 80 pg 36)
Temporary house living in caravans, Barnstaple, Devon
Penfold
Henry - head - 29 - Lisenced Hawker - Bridgwater, Somerset
Ocean - wife - 28 - Honiton, Devon
Bessy - dau - 9 - Paignton
Henry - son - 5 - Exeter
Trefiance? - dau - 3 - Paignton
John - son - 8mths - Braunton
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Henry b.1851/52 Bridgwater m. Ocean HUghes (b 1851 Honiton)
So this is them
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From www.dorset-opc.com:
Baptisms:
Henry son of Robert & Amelia Penfold Hawker 15 June 1855 at Lytchett Minster
Elizabeth daughter of Robert & Amelia Penfold Pedlar 1 Jan 1860 at Chickerell
Monumental Inscription: St George's, Portland
In loving memory of Alice Penfold beloved wife of James Penfold who died June 22 1932 aged 58 years
I noticed that the Mappowder transcriptions have been done by Eileen & Trevor Penfold. Contact details are on the Mappowder page of the Dorset OPC site.
Nanny Jan
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I think these are two of the Buckland family for these marriages
William Penfold Jenty Buckland 1887 Plymouth ( Father Plato Buckland)
James Penfold Sophy Buckland 1887 Plymouth( Father Plato Buckland)
1881
Caravan, Yealmpton, Devon (RG11/2186 folio 56 pg 1&2)
Buckland
Plato - head - 40 - Horse dealer and licensed hawker - Oxfordshire, NK
Betsy - wife - 38 - Devon, NK
Jenty - dau - 17 - brush hawker - Cornwall, NK
Joshua - son - 13 - ditto - ditto
Sophia - dau - 13 - Devon, NK
Keziah - dau - 11 - Somerset, NK
Tryphena - dau - 9 - Warwick, NK
Casolini - dau - 7 - Cornwall, NK
Eliza - dau - 4 - Devon
Selina - dau - 2weeks - Yealmpton
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need another summary again soon ;D ;D ;D
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Toni,
who do we still need to find ...in Census's and BMD's..
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Strange this!!!
Births. Fiance Penfold 1872 Redruth...
: : Defiance Orchard 1872 Tavistock...are we getting our wires crossed over these two girls?
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Don't think anyone has transcribed this yet - although i noticed most of Hepburn's "transcriptions" have been removed!!
1871 - No2 Seaway Lane, Abbotsbury, Dorset (RG10/2008 folio 13 pg 18)
Penfold
Robert - head - 55 - brush maker and licensed hawker - Brimmer, Wilts
Amelia - wife - 53 - N.K
Thomas - son - 22 - ???
Harry - son - 15 - ???
Robert - son - 20? - Snapwick?
Hollis - dau - 18 - Woolbridge
Elizabeth - dau - 13 - Dorchester
Pricilla - dau - 11 - Leigh
same address
Penfold
William - head - 38 - brush maker and licensed hawker - Woodgroom, Hants
Pricilla - wife - 39 - N.K
Pricilla - dau - 16 - Portsmouth
Charlotte - dau - 15 - Portsmouth
Amos - son - 8 - Shirley
Henry - son - 6 - ditto
Hollis - dau - 5 - Portsmouth
Patience - dau - 3 - ditto
Rachel - dau - 1 - ditto
Patience Tomson - sister in law - 22 - Sho?, Sussex
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Please someone guide me!! Looking at the previous census entries this is the marriage of next door neighbours
Patience Thompson to Thomas Penfold sep qtr 1871, Wareham, 5a 528
I think the entries Hepburn has had deleted were of Thomas and Patience in 1881 in Shilling Okeford?
Night Night for now
David
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
so we need info. on these penfolds:~
deaths for all of them!
children of Robert b.1832
do. John 1834 & also his wifes Charlotte maiden name
do. William b.1836
do. Elizabeth (Betsey) 1845/6
do. Alfred b.1849
do. Edward b.1853
Marr. & Death children of Robert b. 1838
do. Ollof b. 1853
do. Henry 1855
do. Elizabeth 1859
do. Priscilla 1860
do. Defiance 1872
do. Soffia 1881
do. Missia / Missellie 1890
we need John b. 1809 baptisim in the census he gives his birth place as Warminster (1861 i think) he married in Pimperne in 1866 and it said OTP
we have 2 census for John 1861 & 1881 maybe i can't remeber sorry)
we need Robert b.1816 Bremer Wilts in 1841/51/71/91 &01
we need Maria Thompson nee Penfold b. 1831 in 1841/51/71/81/91 & 01
(i don't think anyone has looked for her)
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1881 Hod Hill Lane Shilling Okeford Dorset
RG11; 2086; 160; 23;
William Jones 23 Head Male born: Portsmouth Married Brushmaker
Olive Jones 24 Wife Female born: Woolbridge,Married Brushmaker
Betsy Jones 2 Daughter Female born: Moreden, Dorset, England
Tom Carpenter 16 Visitor Male born: Bristol, Brushmaker
RG11; 2086; 159; 22
Robert Penfold 65
Amelia Penfold 65
Elizabeth Penfold 21
Priscilla Penfold 18
(full details given before this Robert is John b. 1809 brother)
RG11;2086; 159; 22;
Henry Penfold 23
Charlotte Penfold 22
Henry Penfold 6
William Penfold 5
Charlotte Penfold 3
Amelia Penfold
(full details given before Henry is the son of Robert b. 1816 above so nephew of John b.1809)
RG11; 2086; 160; 23
Thomas Penfold 30
Patience Penfold 28
Patience Penfold 9
Robert Penfold 5
Elizabeth Penfold
(full details as before Thomas is son of Robert b. 1816 brother to Henry and nephew to John b.1809)
RG11; 2086; 160; 23
James Penfold 27
Priscilla Penfold 24
Priscilla Penfold 6
John Penfold 5
Patience Penfold 3
(full details as before s/o Robert 1816 brother to Henry & Thomas nephew to John b.1809)
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Have we found what Deb asked for (see page 1)?
Have we got;
Census 1871 & 81 for Thomas b. 1841, Sophia b. 1846 and 1881 census for their son William b. <1872> ???
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is she related???
RG11; 2529; 120; 85
United Alms Houses Wooten St Mary
Sophia Orchard 36 Inmate (Head) (Inmate) Female
born: Warminster, Wiltshire, England
Windower (Widower)
Occupation: Nurse To United Hospital (Inst Ser)
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She is approx the right age for the missing Sophia.
I wonder :-\
P.S. Then there is something wrong somewhere.... Sophia & Tom kept having kids up into the 1890's :o
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1881 census
Killing Lane Chapel Allerton Somerset
described as Travelling Hawkers - all listed in one household
John Orchard 45
Sarah Orchard 44
Henry Orchard 24
Harriett Orchard 20
Percilla Penful 20
Annie Sophia Orchard 18
Joseph Orchard 18
John Orchard 16
Thomas Orchard 16
Finance Orchard 13
William Orchard 12
Rachael Holland 7
Sarah Holland 4
i think we already have this as Percilla (sic) is dau. of Robert b. 1816
in a separate household all alone is
Name: Charles Petheram 50 Head Male born: Chapel Allerton, Somerset, Farm Labourer
RG11; 2416; 49; 11;
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Clutching at straws......there's this marriage in the Dec Qtr of 1853......
Penfield Maria Southampton 2c 16
Thompson Henry Southampton 2c 16
That's the only result a search for Thompson/Thomson + Pen*/Pin* and Maria brought up.
I can't see an appropriate Maria Penfield in 1851.
What do we really know about Maria.....other than her parents, approximate age and her married name?
.....dee ....trying to follow it all...... ;)
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Hi Deb,
I spotted this chappie in the St Enoder baptisms. Thought you might like him for your collection. ;)
You wouldn't believe how long it has taken me to work out what it said, but a nice little titbit once I did. ;)
St Enoder Baptisms
21 Sep 1882, Edward PENFOLD, son of Edward and Rachel, Hawker at Summercourt Fair, Plymouth usual abode.
1901 census
RG13/2181 Folio 70 Page 12
Truscott
Tweenways Road
St Stephen by Lauceston
PENFOLD Edward Head 48 Mar b Cornwall Hawker and Horse Dealer
PENFOLD R Wife 46 Mar b Devon
PENFOLD John Son 19 b Somerset
PENFOLD L Son 16 b Devon
PENFOLD J Son 13 b Devon
PENFOLD H Dau 9 b Devon
PENFOLD T Son 7 b Somerset
PENFOLD C Son 6 b Somerset
PENFOLD M Son 5 b Somerset
next entry Folio 71 Page 13
ROBERTS Joe Head 25 Mar b Devon Hawker and Horse Dealer
ROBERTS Charlotte Wife 24 Mar b Devon
ROBERTS Rebecca Dau 4 months b Devon
PENFOLD Edward Boarder 19 Unm b Cornwall
Kris :D
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Wow Deb...I really tried to follow but got completely lost after page 10... :P :P :P :P :P :P :P You have had amazing help.
mab
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OK.......got it....... Edward and your Thomas were brothers ;D
1861 census
RG9/1601 Folio 40 Page 30
Caravan
Minehead Somerset
PENFORD John Head 52 Mar b Warmington Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Harriet Wife 49 Mar b Kingsclere Berkshire Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Thomas Son 20 Unm b Poole Dorset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Christopher Son 18 b Taunton Somerset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Elizabeth Dau 16 b Glandford Dorset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Alfred Son 13 b Charlton Somerset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Henry Son 10 b Bridgewater Somerset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Edward Son 8 b Dobbwalls Cornwall Travelling Hawker
1871 census
RG10/2148 Folio 41 Page 16
Caravan on Collacombe Down
Lamerton
Cornwall
PENFOLD Harriet Head 58 Widow b Warminster Wiltshire Licenced Hawker
PENFOLD Elizabeth Dau 24 b Stowminster Dorset
PENFOLD Alfred Son 22 Unm b Marston Somerset Licenced Hawker
PENFOLD Henry Son 20 Unm b Bridgwater Licenced Hawker
PENFOLD Edward Son 18 b Dubwalls Cornwall Licenced Hawker
PENFOLD William Grandson 8 b Plymouth Devon
GUESS Charlotte Granddaughter 11 b Paignton Devon
HUGHS Ocean Visitor b Honiton Devon Licenced Hawker
JAMES Joseph Nephew 18 b Taunton Licenced Hawker
Edward PENFOLD = Rachel HOLLAND Jun 1/4 1875 Crediton 5b 684
1881 and 1891 ???
Kris :D
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;D
Re : The PENFOLD WINE
If anyone can find a link between me and them ...I would be eternally grateful :o :o :o :D
deb ...keeping fingers crossed :)
Sorry I have to disillusion you Deb .....but check out the following website....scoll towards the bottom of the page and you'll see a little family tree of the Penfolds of South Australia. I don't think there will be any connection.....unless it is way back! ;D ;D ;D
http://www.penfoldsfineartgallery.com/history.html
.....dee
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Dammmmmmmmmmit Dee, I was counting on there being a connection and having a new best friend .......... ;D ;D ;D
That's a terrific amount of information you've found there Kriss, well done - I know Deb will be delighted.
Barbara
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Morning all.... you have all been AMAZING.... even if i find anything ...it takes me hours to type it , there is no way i could have done all those lists...
fantastic work.... ;D
Debz
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Toni has been a huge help, Debz....without her I think everyone would have floundered. But because of her summaries, we've got reinspired to keep searching! :D
But as for the original question that Deb-twin asked......I am beginning to doubt they were ever on those two censuses! :-\
......dee
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i'm more that happy to search ,it's just at this point i have NO idea what/who we are searching for ....besides the link with the Penfold Vino ;D
Debz...... with major sore throat...had flu jab on thursday... i feel really ruff ::)
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Awwww poor Debz .......... go to bed with a stiff scotch. . . . .. . and a drink!!!
Barbara
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wish i could... have to go and help at the Bunny rescue centre today as they are desperate for helpers this weekend...
i'm sure lots of cuddles with bunzies will cheer me up ;D
Debz...ps. did buy a bottle of port yesterday tho... ;D Catch you all later ;)
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That'll do for the drink Debz ................. now for the ................!!!!
Hope you're soon feeling better.
Barbara
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Clutching at straws......there's this marriage in the Dec Qtr of 1853......
Penfield Maria Southampton 2c 16
Thompson Henry Southampton 2c 16
That's the only result a search for Thompson/Thomson + Pen*/Pin* and Maria brought up.
I can't see an appropriate Maria Penfield in 1851.
What do we really know about Maria.....other than her parents, approximate age and her married name?
.....dee ....trying to follow it all...... ;)
we know Maria had a son Henry b. Prath age 6 in 1861 and we also know that Maria was bapt. in 1831 in Brockenhurst.
Maria was lising with Robert 1861 and is listed as sister and Henry is nephew.
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Don't think anyone has transcribed this yet - although i noticed most of Hepburn's "transcriptions" have been removed!!......Huh what does that mean?
-
What exactly do you mean Hepburn ........ that your findings have been missed??
Sorry, not completely with you . . .. :-\
Barbara
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I am here for a second ....
THANKS FOR EVERYTHING .... I am off to the ball .... ;D
deb
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Have a good time Cinders ......... Be home my midnight or you know what happens!! ;D ;D
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Don't think anyone has transcribed this yet - although i noticed most of Hepburn's "transcriptions" have been removed!!......Huh what does that mean?
If you look back thru the entries of this thread some of your postings have been removed due to copyright violation
-
Oh dear naughty me,I thought you got a box up saying you couldn't use the info ??? wonder which ones were dodgy...
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All of them by the looks of it lol! ;D
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Oh no....all that trawling come to nothing ;D ;D
-
I just hope Deb got the information down before they disappeared Hepburn . .. .. what a shame, all that work for nothing. :-\ :-\
Barbara
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Looking further for Edward and Rachel and their family, unfortunately there is no sign of them in the 1881 and 1891 census and with the children's names only listing initials in 1901 it is not terribly helpful. There does not appear to be a birth registration for Edward who's baptism I found and as he is not listed with the family in 1901 the baptism seems the only way to connect him to his family so really rather a handy little find, for anyone researching that part of the family.
Here are some possible siblings
Laurel Sep 1/4 1885 Totnes 5b 169
Harriet Sep 1/4 1891 Bideford 5b 492
Thomas Dec 1/4 1892 Williton 5c 277
Christopher Sep 1/4 1894 Williton 5c 2_0
Moses Mar 1/4 1896 Williton 5c 265
I don't see a John in Somerset
The nearest I can see for J 13 is
James Mar 1/4 1889 Barnstaple 5b 474
Shame they cannot be found in the census, given that they married in 1875, I bet there are some earlier ones we don't know about :'(
Cheers Kris :D
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Oh no....all that trawling come to nothing ;D ;D
Well hopefully you can PM the info to Deb ;D I don't think that's something anyone will be upset about....
mab
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Toni,
That Frederick Penfold is commemorated on the Tyne Cot Memorial.
Nanny Jan
ok not one of Debs then
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i have tried to get everyones info. into this one summary here goes. :~
John Penfold m. Charlotte Unknown (possibly Brooks)
children:
John b. 1809 m. Harriet James
Robert b.1816 m. Amelia Page
Maria b. 1831 m ... Thomson
(missing children)
John Pinfold (sic) 1809 warminster m. Harriett James b.1814 Warminster, 02 Aug 1831 Pimperne Dorset (source IGI batch M159791)
Children:~
Robert b.1832 m. Finance Smith
Sarah Harriet baptised 3 nov 1833 in St Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex inder the name Pennifold
John b. 1834 m. married Charlotte
William b, 1836 m. Diane Sophie Hewson
Thomas - b.1841 m. Sophia/Soffia Orchard
Charlotte b. 1838 m. Henry Geuss/Gess 1858
Elizabeth (Betsy) b. 1845/6 m. Edwin Orchard b. 1844 Ledbury m on 15 April 1871
Alfredb.1849 m. Lousia small (b.1851) m. 15 April 1871
Henry b.1851/52 Bridgwater m. Ocean HUghes (b 1851 Honiton)
Edward b.1853 m. Rachel Holland
1861 census
RG9/1601 Folio 40 Page 30
Caravan
Minehead Somerset
PENFORD John Head 52 Mar b Warmington Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Harriet Wife 49 Mar b Kingsclere Berkshire Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Thomas Son 20 Unm b Poole Dorset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Christopher Son 18 b Taunton Somerset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Elizabeth Dau 16 b Glandford Dorset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Alfred Son 13 b Charlton Somerset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Henry Son 10 b Bridgewater Somerset Travelling Hawker
PENFORD Edward Son 8 b Dobbwalls Cornwall Travelling Hawker
1871 census
RG10/2148 Folio 41 Page 16
Caravan on Collacombe Down
Lamerton
Cornwall
PENFOLD Harriet Head 58 Widow b Warminster Wiltshire Licenced Hawker
PENFOLD Elizabeth Dau 24 b Stowminster Dorset
PENFOLD Alfred Son 22 Unm b Marston Somerset Licenced Hawker
PENFOLD Henry Son 20 Unm b Bridgwater Licenced Hawker
PENFOLD Edward Son 18 b Dubwalls Cornwall Licenced Hawker
PENFOLD William Grandson 8 b Plymouth Devon
GUESS Charlotte Granddaughter 11 b Paignton Devon (child of Charlotte & Henry)
HUGHS Ocean Visitor b Honiton Devon Licenced Hawker
JAMES Joseph Nephew 18 b Taunton Licenced Hawker
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Robert b. 1816 Bremer Wilts m. Amelia Page (source IGI) 26 dec 1836 Bishops Waltham, Hampshire
children:
Robert M 1838 born Southhampton
(missing children)
Thomas 1849 born Exeter "
James 1850 born Bridgewater
Ollof 1853 born Withridge
Henry 1855 born Yeovil
Elizabeth 1859 born Dorchester
Pricilla 6 monthes on the census on 1861 so makes her b. late 1860 , yes?
1871 - No2 Seaway Lane, Abbotsbury, Dorset (RG10/2008 folio 13 pg 18)
Penfold
Robert - head - 55 - brush maker and licensed hawker - Brimmer, Wilts
Amelia - wife - 53 - N.K
Thomas - son - 22 -
Harry - son - 15 -
Robert - son - 20? - Snapwick?
Hollis - dau - 18 - Woolbridge
Elizabeth - dau - 13 - Dorchester
Pricilla - dau - 11 - Leigh
1881 census for Robert
RG11 2086 159 22
Hod Hill Lane Shilling Okeford Sturminster
Robert Penfold 65 b. Bremer Wilthsire brushmaker (making him b. 1816)
Amelia 65 wife b. Canterbury brushmaker
Elizabeth 21 dau. b. Burton Dorset brushmaker
Priscillia 18 dau. b. Ibberton Dorset brushmaker
Maria bapt. 3 jul 1831, Brockenhurst, Hampshire (batch 1013764) m. ...... Thompson (source 1861 census)
1861 living with brother Robert
Maria Thompson age 29 born Brockners, Hampshire sister and hawker
Henry 6 born Prath nephew (of Robert)
Dec Qtr of 1853......Penfield Maria Southampton 2c 16 Thompson Henry Southampton 2c 16
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Thomas b. 1841 m. Sophia / Soffia Orchard b. circa 1846 in Q2 1866 South Molton Devon 5b 833 (source BMD)
children:~
William circa 1871 m. Bessie Palmer
Defiance 1872c.
John 1874c.
Christoanna 1875c.
Christopher 1877c.
Edward 1879c. (RG13/2181 olio 71 Page 13 Truscott
Tweenways Road ROBERTS Joe Head 25 Mar b Devon
Hawker and Horse Dealer ROBERTS Charlotte Wife 24 Mar
b Devon ROBERTS Rebecca Dau 4 months b Devon PENFOLD
Edward Boarder 19 Unm b Cornwall)Soffia 1881c.
Nelson 1883c.
Elizabeth 1885c.
Harriet 1887c.
Missia 1890c.
Selina 1891c. bapt. 22.Feb 1891 Par Cornwall (under Pinfold, source IGI)
(source 1891 census)
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1881 census for Henry
Henry PENFOLD Head M Male 23 Yeovil, Brushmaker
Charlotte Wife M Female 22 Portsmouth, Brushmaker
Henry Son Male 6 Gosport,
William Son Male 5 Weymouth, None
Charlotte Daur Female 3 Bridport,
Amelia Daur Female 4 m Southampton,
Hod Hill Lane
Shilling Okeford, Dorset, England
RG11 2086 / 159 22
1881 censusRG11; 2416; 49; 11;
Killing Lane Chapel Allerton Somerset
described as Travelling Hawkers - all listed in one household
John Orchard 45
Sarah Orchard 44
Henry Orchard 24
Harriett Orchard 20
Percilla Penful 20
Annie Sophia Orchard 18
Joseph Orchard 18
John Orchard 16
Thomas Orchard 16
Finance Orchard 13
William Orchard 12
Rachael Holland 7
Sarah Holland 4
Percilla (sic) is dau. of Robert b. 1816
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William b. 1871 m. Bessie Palmer - Debs details:~
William PENFOLD =Bessie PALMER Cornwall , Falmouth 8 jan 1898
Children:
John b 1897 d 1922
Christianna b june q 1898 d Sept q 1898
Thomas b sept q 1899 Truro
Christopher b Mar q 1901 Truro
Sophia b sept q 1902 =william Barron
William b sept q 1904 Truro
Edward b Mar 1908 Truro
Nelson b June q 1910 Truro = Pearlie Hawkins
Walter b Jun 1912 Truro = no.1 Marjorie?? (3 kids), no.2 Muriel?? (2 kids)
Violet Venie b 19 March 1914 = Thomas Philip James my grandparents
Stanley Moses b 1815
There were other children too ... Miselli who supposedly died young,
Minnie died 2001
Renie Penfold b ?? = Bill Crutchley
Harold b 1920 ?
'I will have to look further as I think there were 17 children in all' quote from Debs
John 1874c. m. Ellen Small
children:~
Mark, Eliza John Vashtie Missellie Genty Edward Priscilla Harriet Sophie Helen
(for some reason i do not have d/p.ob???)
Christiana 1875c. Cornwall Grampound m. William Orchard s/o John Orchard & Sarah Q1 1898 St Austell (source BMD)
children:~
Edmund 1900c Calstock
Joseph 1901c Mary Tavy
1901 - Northcombe Moors (caravan), Uplyme, Devon RG13/2121 folio 8 pg 8
Orchard
William - head - 31 - Licensed Hawker - Pinhol, Devon
Christina - wife - 26 - Grampound, Cornwall
Edmund - son - 1 - Calstock, Cornwall
Joseph - son - 4mths - Mary Tavy? Devon
Sarah - mother - wid - 64 - Sherly, Hampshire
Edmund Spargo - b in law - 30 - licensed hawker - Stoke Climsland, Cornwall
Harriett ditto - sister - 34 - Hemjock, Cornwall
(Harriett Orchard married Edmund Spargo
- St Germans, mar qtr 1898, 5c 73)
Christopher 1877 m. Carnation Richards 14 Nov 1903 , child : Edward/Eddy he was 3 when his mum died.
Carnation Richards d/o Justinyen/Justinian Richards, she died age 23 , 17 jan 1906 , of acute TB
Christopher Penfold then married for a 2nd time ...to Mariah/Maria BOSWELL
Edward 1879c m. Florence Mabel Whitcombe from Meare in 1913 Florence d. 1917 and Edward remarried Elizabeth Whitcombe
Nelson b.1883 m. 1904 to Lavinia Richards or Hannah Rush (need to cert to confirm who but there are briths for Penfold/Richards children 1911-1920 but none for Penfold/Rush)
Elizabeth b c 1885 = William Orchard 1908, Stratton Cornwall
Harriett 1887 m. William Small 1915 Plymouth (source Romanygenes) sorry ishe could have been this marriage :-\Harriett Penfold Henry Buckland 1896 Plympton/ Devon (Father Tenant Buckland )
Selina Penfold 1891 Joshua Buckland 1887 Totnes Devon ( father was Plato Buckland ) (Source Romanygenes)
Genty Penfold m. John Albert James s/o Vashtie James
children:
John William Vashtie Jenty Liberty
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cannot place him ...................... 1871 - No2 Seaway Lane, Abbotsbury, Dorset (RG10/2008 folio 13 pg 18)
Penfold
William - head - 38 - brush maker and licensed hawker - Woodgroom, Hants
Pricilla - wife - 39 - N.K
Pricilla - dau - 16 - Portsmouth
Charlotte - dau - 15 - Portsmouth
Amos - son - 8 - Shirley
Henry - son - 6 - ditto
Hollis - dau - 5 - Portsmouth
Patience - dau - 3 - ditto
Rachel - dau - 1 - ditto
Patience Tomson - sister in law - 22 - Sho?, Sussex
~~~~~~~~
is she related???
RG11; 2529; 120; 85
United Alms Houses Wooten St Mary
Sophia Orchard 36 Inmate (Head) (Inmate) Female
born: Warminster, Wiltshire, England
Windower (Widower)
Occupation: Nurse To United Hospital (Inst Ser)
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Toni ............... I have to say ..............You're an absolute wonder. How do you do it??
Thank you so much.
Barbara
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Mind boggling organization ;D ;D brilliant Toni..
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still can't find a marriage for a Penfold to a Thompson ???
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As we're on page 20, I'll start a Deb Scavenger Hunt #2 but it will have to be in the Common Room.
I'll post a link shortly.
Barbara
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I've done a continuation of this thread in the Common Room. PLEASE use the second thread from now on.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,266055.0.html
Thanks
Barbara
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A very old thread is anyone still following? Have been trying to find info on my paternal grandmother Rachel Mayne.
Ok...so I think I am joined to this as follows:
Robert Penfold b1816 m Amelia Page b1818
Their daughter
Elizabeth Penfold b1859 Dorchester d1925 Weymouth (m 1887) John Mayne b1856 Surrey
Their children
John Mayne b 1888 Swanage
Robert Mayne b 1888 Swanage
Elizabeth Mayne b 1891 Weymouth
Rachel Vera b1895 Weymouth d1947 Sydney Australia (m1918) Walter Percy Scott AIF in Chickerell
Patience b 1900 Wyke Regis
Can any confirm that I've go the right Elizabeth that married John Mayne?
Thanks, Alison
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hi im rying to find an elizabeth penfold b about 1860 in new forest married/? joseph ball.
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New here and a very old thread but thought I would ask!
I just started researching my family tree on my maternal grandmothers side - she died about 30 years ago now but my Mum has always told a few stories which we didn't know were true or not. My gran had said she was born into a travelling family but her mother disappeared at an early age and she was raised by her father and grandparents who were not travellers and she also maintained that her parents were never officially married.
Anyway - last week I got hold of her birth certificate and did some digging - her parents are listed as William and Sophia Quick - nee Penfoe. They are listed in the 1901 census but by 1911 Sophia has disappeared. After much digging around it became apparent that this was obviously a transcribing error and that her name was Sophia Penfold. She was born in 1881 though I only have the fact that in 1901 she was listed as being 20. It makes sense therefore that she is the daughter of Thomas and Sophia Penfold (nee Orchard) and it would appear I am related to a few people on here.
Sadly I cannot find anything about what happened to her post 1901 - somehow doubt I ever will but if anyone has any info I would be happy to hear it
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Iandevon...I am unable to answer your message for some reason but yes Joe orchard was my great grandfather. I know about Sophie, I would love to talk to you but rootschat isn't letting me send private messages. many thanks Elizabeth
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Hello Elizabeth, the reason you can't send a private message is because you haven't posted enough yourself yet. Acknowledge this message, then you should be able to use the private message system.
Good luck and I'm sure IanDevon will be delighted to hear from you.
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Hope Elizabeth sees this - would be delighted to hear what happened to my great grandmother, and I'm sure my Mum now 85 would be interested to know
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I can see the thread just can't send a PM, Lol, I'm so glad you message me Ian I've thought about you often since I read your post
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not sure if posting emails is allowed - Removed
Moderator comment: email address removed, please use the personal message system to exchange information
https://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Not a good idea, because of scammers. So not allowed here. Try sending it by the personal messaging