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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Monday 05 November 07 09:58 GMT (UK)

Title: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 05 November 07 09:58 GMT (UK): OK, this is the continuation of Dee's Scavenger Hunt, I'll put a link on here for the old thread and a link to this one on the old thread .......... phew, had to think about that for a minute ........ ;D

Here is the link to the old thread ........... ;D

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,263507.0.html

Good hunting.

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 05 November 07 10:05 GMT (UK): Thanks for that, Barbara.....

Following the marriage certificate arrival today for Joseph BAUER and Emma MANSFIELD, I went back to the 1841 census to look for Emma again.

The only Emma Mansfield I can find born in Montgomeryshire is the following……

HO107/ 1440/ 14/ 17/ 25

Aberhafesp Berriew, Montgomery Wales

Joseph Mansfield 63 Farmer
Emma Mansfield 19
Evan Brunt 37
Martha Jones 17

This Emma does have a father Joseph, but he is a farmer, not a Timber merchant. He was not born in the county, while all the others were.

There does not seem to be an appropriate Emma in the 1841 Census for England, and in 1851 Emma did say she was born Montgomery.

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: davidpinkney on Monday 05 November 07 18:36 GMT (UK): Is Joseph's father Nicholas noted as deceased on the marriage cert?

David
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 05 November 07 20:14 GMT (UK): Neither father is noted as deceased, David. :)

I've been trawling IGI records for Nicolas/Nicolaus Bauer/Baur but nothing conclusive comes up.

I also checked the 1841 census for Nicolas, but nothing readily appears.

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 06 November 07 00:24 GMT (UK): In 1851 there is a retired merchant/carter named Joseph Mansfield aged 78 and a widower born Oxton, Cambridgeshire, England living with daughter Mary Ann Mansfield in Cambridge. None of the other Joseph Mansfields look likely. I can’t see him in 1861, so most likely he had died by then. I was hoping maybe young George Bauer would turn up with him. :-\

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 06 November 07 00:36 GMT (UK): Hi Deetwin

have you received the marriage cert for Joseph Bauer and jane Lee yet ...is he the son of Joseph the cook from France who married Isabella ??

deb :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 06 November 07 00:45 GMT (UK): Deb.....have a look at

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,263507.285.html

:D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 06 November 07 21:11 GMT (UK): Deetwin :D

I am so excited for you! Joseph Bauer , cook was b in France ... do you think his dad, Nicholas , may have been too?

deb :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 07 November 07 09:04 GMT (UK): Deb, I suspect Nicolas was born in France, most likely in the Alsace region. There are a lot of Nicolaus Bauers listed on the IGI.....but no connection to Joseph that I can see.

The Horse Dealer bit has me intrigued......

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: toni* on Wednesday 07 November 07 09:10 GMT (UK): Quote from: deeiluka on Wednesday 07 November 07 09:04 GMT (UK)
Deb, I suspect Nicolas was born in France, most likely in the Alsace region. There are a lot of Nicolaus Bauers listed on the IGI.....but no connection to Joseph that I can see.

The Horse Dealer bit has me intrigued......

......dee

would he have been born France as a British Subject? also what year please i can Browse Overseas Records 1761-1981
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 07 November 07 09:15 GMT (UK): Toni,
Joseph Bauer was given on the 1851 Census as born in Paris, France. His year of birth was c1796. Joseph named one of his sons Francoise, and the name survived for two more generations.

As for Nicolas, I really don't have any idea when he was born.

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: toni* on Wednesday 07 November 07 09:28 GMT (UK): Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details

RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.

For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 07 November 07 09:50 GMT (UK): Toni,
I registered and checked the Overseas Index, but no Bauers are on it. I'll have another look at the site shortly if I can stay awake; otherwise I'll do it tomorrow.

Many thanks....

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 27 November 07 22:58 GMT (UK): Yippee! Just received the birth certificate of little George Bauer. Everything confirms what has already been discovered thanks to all the folk on this thread.....George was born 9th January 1848 at Isleworth to Joseph Bauer, cook, and Emma Bauer formerly Mansfield.

Next.....the marriage certificate of Joseph who married Jane Lee......but need to find the exact marriage reference first...... :-\

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 27 November 07 23:28 GMT (UK): woohoooooo DEETWIN ....

I am sure that somewhere on the thread is the ref for Jane Lee and Joseph Bauer ...I think Part 1 ...it took me days to find ... LOL ;D

debtwin

ps ...he was joseph BOWER
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 27 November 07 23:31 GMT (UK): Yes Deb....I have that, thanks to your hard work..... .....but they're different page numbers.....so I really need to find the images and see what is on them. FreeBMD doesn't have images available for those two, so will have to sit and try to find them on Ancestry.....as soon as I finish the household chores..... ;)

....dee-twin :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 27 November 07 23:36 GMT (UK): hi Dee ...just searched for it ...you beat me but I will post it anyway in case someone can help ...

I FOUND IT .....

Jane LEE Mar Q 1851 WEST LONDON vol 2 p 241

Joseph BOWERS Mar Q 1851 WEST LONDON vol 2 p 244

Jane was on a page with 10 people ..ithought they were all matched up ...but NOT... 6 Girls Only 4 boys ....
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 02 February 08 08:04 GMT (UK): I have ordered Louisa Isabella Bauer's marriage certificate today, so now have to wait patiently until it arrives.

But I've also been working on the family of Hugh Bauer, and there's a couple of things I can't find.

None of us could find Charlotte Elizabeth (Bauer) Lennard's death or presence in the 1891 Census.

Well, I can't find the son Charles Joseph in the 1881 Census. He's with the family in 1871, and he's also with the family in Canada after they migrated between 1886 and 1891.

If anyone can find him. I'd love to know where he was and what he was doing.

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 02 February 08 15:40 GMT (UK): Hi Deetwin

Can you tell us which pages on part 1 that refer to Charlotte and Charles Joseph ...just so I can update myself on them ....

debtwin ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 02 February 08 17:38 GMT (UK): Hi Deetwin

Charlotte Elizabeth Lennard nee bauer ...b 1860 , Bedmonsey Surrey ...a cook ...

She is No-where in 1891 ...arrghhh ...I even checked under Lottie ....where did she go? Her hubby in 1891 is with the children and he still says he's married ...By 1901 he is widowed ... so we have to find her death between 1891-1901 ....

deb :-\
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 02 February 08 17:59 GMT (UK): Deetwin

i am not sure who Charles Joseph is ! :-\ I read through part 1 again ... and can't see him .... who is he the son of?

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Brambletye on Saturday 02 February 08 18:23 GMT (UK): Quote from: deeiluka on Wednesday 07 November 07 09:04 GMT (UK)
Deb, I suspect Nicolas was born in France, most likely in the Alsace region. There are a lot of Nicolaus Bauers listed on the IGI.....but no connection to Joseph that I can see.

The Horse Dealer bit has me intrigued......

......dee

Coming in very late to this one, Part 1 started before I was aware of Scavenger Hunts :)
...but looking at Nicolas, if your man is a Horse Dealer, this could well have an Irish connection to it somewhere along the line, even if it's only that he was there on business.

I know the Irish Censuses have gone down the tubes, but might there be anything else in the archives? details of businesses, owners of stud farms and their day-to-day paperwork?

......................

If I remember rightly from all I have read today in Part 1, there is a Hugh b. c1824 Belfast (Perfumier), Francois b. 1827 France/London (Cook), Joseph Jnr. b.c 1829 Paris (Cook), Louisa Isabella chr. 1833 (Cook) - and George b. 1848 by Emma Mansfield (she m.Joseph Snr. 1846 Hammersmith) and we are trying to get the link, esp. between Francois and Hugh.

Hugh would be the eldest if these were all siblings, but so far, the only confirmed children of Joseph Snr. are Francois, Louisa & George - Hugh & Joseph Jnr. being likely but no proof yet - and Joseph Snr's father is Nicolas, but no siblings yet for Joseph Snr.

Have I got this right?

I'm missing one bit though - do you have a place of birth for Joseph Snr?
(note to me so I don't lose the plot ;D : Joseph Snr. b. c1796 d. 1853, occ. Cook, m. to Isabella, then Emma)

I had a look at the photos, the resemblances are remarkable. I transposed pic. bottom left so he was facing same way as pic. centre top - not much doubt on visual evidence, you just need the proof... :D

...and I had a look at the Joseph Snr./Isabell entry in the reg. entry that was posted up, her surname looks like Leoppold or Leoppard, suspect the former.

I'll make a start on seeing if I can find anything new...
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 02 February 08 19:28 GMT (UK): Hi Bambletye

Well done on catching up ...It was afbulous hunt for us all ... especially with their occupations. I think we all learned a great deal especially about the London areas .... They are rather confusing to me :-\

I still cannot find Charlotte Elizabeth Lennard nee Bauer ....why was she not with her family the night of the census ...either she was sick or a cook in some household/hotel and has not been transcibed.

deb ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Brambletye on Saturday 02 February 08 19:52 GMT (UK): Quote from: deb usa on Saturday 02 February 08 19:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Bambletye

Well done on catching up ...It was afbulous hunt for us all ... especially with their occupations. I think we all learned a great deal especially about the London areas .... They are rather confusing to me :-\

I still cannot find Charlotte Elizabeth Lennard nee Bauer ....why was she not with her family the night of the census ...either she was sick or a cook in some household/hotel and has not been transcibed.

deb ;D

I can't find her either, yet - her birthplace (I think) varies between Bloomsbury and Bermondsey, I have been caning the 1891 this last half hour, and nothing yet...

ADDED...where are hubby and child in 1891? I might try going backwards and forwards through the nearby images to see if she's not too far away from home, but has been the victim of yet another crass mistranscription... >:(
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 02 February 08 20:27 GMT (UK): Hi folks.

Many thanks for your efforts overnight......sorry I wasn't here to answer your questions sooner.

So it is not just me who can't find Charlotte Elizabeth (Bauer) Lennard either dead or alive! :-\

The Bauers were mistranscribed so many times that it shouldn't surprise me.

Now to the questions.....

Deb....Charles Joseph was the second child of Hugh & Charlotte Bauer .....born 23 Dec 1860 Bloomsbury.

Brambletye.....yes, you have it right.....

Nicholas Bauer was the father of Joseph Bauer.
Joseph Bauer was given as born Paris, France or just France about 1796.
Joseph's confirmed chn were Francois, Louisa Isabella, and George.
His unconfirmed children were Hugh and Joseph.

Charlotte Elizabeth's hubby and daughter in 1891 are at RG12/435/141/1

It is another of those dreadful mistranscriptions......Joesph LEMARD, Edith Margaret LOTTIE! :o :o

Sometimes I wonder how we have found anything out about these people......... ::)

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 02 February 08 20:38 GMT (UK): Hi Bambletye ..

here is the info for Charlotte Elizabeth Lennard nee Bauer

marriage ; under surname Baner
Charlotte Elizabeth BANER = Joseph Cecil Lennard
Sept q 1879
Wandsworth
vol 1d p 188

1881

3 Tugela? Rd, Battersea

Joseph C Lennard - head - 27 - provision merchant - Lambeth
Charlotte Lennard - wife - 21 - ditto, wife - bloomsbury
Maggie Lennard - dau - 10mths - Battersea
Mary A Cope - serv - 16 - Egham

RG11/642 folio 83 pg 29

1891...... No Charlotte !!
Hamburt Rd ? Battersea
Joseph Cecil Leonard head mar 27 pension merchant, Lambeth
Edith Margaret Lottie dau 10 scholart , Battersea
Hattie Kassal Visitor mar 32, Albany New York
Harry Collingwood Banks visitor single 27 Professor of music, Islington
elizabeth Clark serv, Dundee scotland

RG12/435 fol 141 p 1

1901

Joseph C Lennard - head - wid - 48 - own means - S E, Lambeth
Margaret Lennard - dau - 20 - Clapham
Muriel Lennard - grddau - 9m - Kensington
+ 1 servant

RG13/1188 folio 101 pg 37

Joseph Cecil Lennard died dec qtr 1905 aged 52 Brentford reg district

Joseph , the OH , is mar in 1881 , widowed in 1901 ...her death has to be between those dates somewhere ...

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Brambletye on Saturday 02 February 08 21:26 GMT (UK): Just had a look at the 1891 for Joseph & family - they have actually written Lernard on the Census, living No. 3 Harbut Road Battersea, it says he is age 37 b. Lambeth - and he is a Provision Merchant, i.e. a grocer's supplier etc.

The writing is TERRIBLE...even worse than 17th - 19th Century Secretary Hand/Courthand, at least they were mostly consistent in their c*ckups :( but I'll keep trying...at least it says he is Married not Wid, so that might narrow the search for Charlotte's death.

Has anyone tried Lernard for Charlotte yet...?
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 02 February 08 21:29 GMT (UK): No....that's one I haven't tried Brambletye!
lenard/ Leonard/ Leonnard /Lemard/Lerrard/and quite a few more but not Lernard.....

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Brambletye on Saturday 02 February 08 21:41 GMT (UK): Have just done the 1891 image by image for West Battersea District 39, which is where Joseph Lernard is - no Charlotte.

He is on Page 1 - the area starts Harbut Road and ends Louvaine Road - is anyone's geog. good enough to tell me what might have been before Harbut Road, and which enumeration district? Having worked forwards, might try working back...
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 02 February 08 21:45 GMT (UK): Hi Brambletye

I have done a search in 1891 using:

CHa* b 1860 London
Lottie b 1860 London
No Name just b 1860 +- 2 years born Bloomsbury London
Elizabeth b 1860 London
Len* 1860 London
C E L 1860 London

etc etc

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 02 February 08 23:02 GMT (UK): I have been trying to trawl FreeBMD for Charlotte Elizabeth's death, starting at 1881 and proceeding quarter by quarter searching all the Charlotte Elizabeth's without a surname. Am up to 1885 but keep getting Service Not Available, so will try later in the day when all in the UK have gone to bed! ;)

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 03 February 08 05:26 GMT (UK): Checked every quarter of FreeBMD Deaths for Charlotte Elizabeth so that any variation of Lennard would show up.....not a thing! :'(

Then checked Canadian deaths in case she went to visit her mother and siblings over there.......not a thing. :'(

Forgot to say this morning....thanks, for what you did with the photos. I'm even more sure now that they are related......which means I am related........

........dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Sunday 03 February 08 08:07 GMT (UK): You'll find them Dee, it might take a little bit longer, but you'll find them ;D

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 04 March 08 05:38 GMT (UK): Certificate has arrived for the marriage of Joseph BOWERS and Jane LEE, both of full age, and both of Gray's Inn Lane, on 16th February, 1851.
Joseph was a cook, and his father was......Joseph BOWERS, COOK!

Jane's father was James LEE, Dairy Man.

Of course, the names of the witnesses do not ring any bells......John Thompson Moores and Sarah Ann Bradley.

I think my Francois Bauer has a brother Joseph! :D :D :D

.......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 04 March 08 06:39 GMT (UK): Somebody else for you to chase up Dee.......... ;D ;D ;D

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 15 March 08 09:29 GMT (UK): Thanks to being able to access old newspaper images at the moment, I have just discovered that in 1887 there was the a court case Bauer versus Lennard.

Big question? Is it possible to get records for old court cases?

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Saturday 15 March 08 11:10 GMT (UK): If it was a big enough court case, it should be in the papers anyway Dee, they loved a bit of scandal back then......... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 15 March 08 11:22 GMT (UK): I've been searching the papers...... ;) :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Saturday 15 March 08 11:25 GMT (UK): Nothing at the N.A. ??
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 15 March 08 11:33 GMT (UK): I shall try looking....but that's a site I haven't really mastered......

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Saturday 15 March 08 11:40 GMT (UK): I can't say I have either, but surely if it's been in the papers the NA would have some record of it.........I'll give it a bash as well...........this should be fun, me trying to find something on N.A. ;D ;D If I'm not back in 30 minutes, send a search party.... ;)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 15 March 08 11:42 GMT (UK): What ? Try to find you among all those boxes of files? :o :o ;D ;D

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Saturday 15 March 08 11:44 GMT (UK): ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 16 March 08 00:38 GMT (UK): Right....date of the Bauer versus Lennard Court Case was Jan 19th 1887. :D :D

I'll post the snippet here when I have cropped it......

Here it is.....

....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Sunday 16 March 08 15:22 GMT (UK): been searching TNA and found this one you just might find interesting ;)

Divorce and Matrimonial Causes
Divorce Court File 891
Apppellant Joseph Cecil Lennard
Respondent Charlotte Elizabeth Lennard
Co-respondant: John Brown AND Tom Allat :o
Type: Husbands petition for divorce [hd]

date 1886
Item details J 77/360/891 <<< TNA Reference that is needed
J 77 = Court for Divorce and Matrimonial Causes, later Supreme Court of Judicature: Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Files
/360 described at level
891 is the case!
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Sunday 16 March 08 15:24 GMT (UK): Just realised it was the year before Bauer v Lennard (Which I can't find on TNA)

bet that has something to do with the divorce and getting stuff/money/house back! :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 16 March 08 20:49 GMT (UK): Many thanks, JC! That's great. :D :D :D

Another skeleton in the Bauer closet! ;D ;D ;D

But.....how do I go about finding out more? What would I have to do?

Any advice you can give me will be most welcome.......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Sunday 16 March 08 21:10 GMT (UK): Hi Dee, if your friend is going to the TNA he can request to see the papers
this is the ref number he needs

J 77/360/891

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 16 March 08 21:38 GMT (UK): Excellent, JC...that's just what I needed to know. I shall put it at the top of the list I am making for him.

Thanks again..... :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 02:08 GMT (UK): So....summarising what has been found about Charlotte Elizabeth Bauer.....

Charlotte Elizabeth Bauer was born abt 1859 in Bloomsbury, London to Hugh Bauer and Charlotte Mary Osborne.

She married Joseph Cecil Lennard, a Provision Merchant, in 1879 and by 1881 the couple were living in Battersea and had a 10 month old daughter Edith Margaret Lennard.

1891 sees Joseph Cecil Lennard as married, still living in Battersea, but at a different address, and daughter Edith Margaret is with him.

By 1901 Joseph Cecil Lennard is living on his own means in Twickenham. He is now listed as a widower. Daughter Edith Margaret is still with him.....and she is listed as Margaret Lennard Married but has a 9 month old daughter Muriel Lennard. :o :o

There's no sign of wife Charlotte Elizabeth in either the 1891 or the 1901 Census and we can't scavenge her up. Nor can we find her death.

BUT.....JC has found that there was a Divorce Court Proceedings, and two men were named. One is a Tom Allat, but unfortunately, the other is is named John Brown.

So....is Charlotte with one of them in 1891 and 1901.....or with someone else? :o :o
Or did she too go to Canada when her family went between 1886 and 1891?

Still answers to find..... :-\
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 07:08 GMT (UK): Dee do you have access to The Times online?
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 07:14 GMT (UK): Not any more..... ;D :-\

I know there was another court case involving Charlotte's father Hugh Bauer....someone sent me the copy some time ago....but no date on it!

I didn't manage to find it. :'(

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 07:41 GMT (UK): I just did a search for Hugh Bauer in the Times Online, but it didn't throw anything up :-\

enjoy your read ;) ;D

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 07:51 GMT (UK): JC.....my meal can wait...this is too amazing.... Have read the divorce report once but need to read it again more slowly! ;D ;D ;D

Can I ask you another favour? Could you search fror Williams v Osborne?
It was in the Vice Chancellors Court before Sir W P Wood Dec 15th but no idea of the year. It would have probably been between 1860 and 1988 as Hugh Bauer died in 1886. I really would lke to know the year....

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 07:55 GMT (UK): Think I should explain for the others who follow this thread.....

JC has found the divorce of Charlotte Elizabeth Bauer and Joseph Cecil Lennard, and I have read all about it! The marriage was dissolved in 1886.

Charlotte was found to have been a naughty girl! :o ;)

So....still trying to find her after 1886! :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 08:35 GMT (UK): I can't find Williams v OSborne but there is a case where they cite OSborne v Williams as a test case.. (21 Nov 1904)
.. Mr Schiller, in reply, cited "Osborne v Williams" (19 Ves., 379)

removed... just found it see later message
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 08:40 GMT (UK): DEE - I JUST FOUND IT!

The Times, Saturday, Dec 09, 1865; pg. 11; Issue 25364; col A
Vice-Chancellor's Court, Dec. 8 Williams v. Osborne

do you want the image of the newspaper abstract?

ps just read it and it doesn't relate to the last message at all lol! so I think you can scrub that one!
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 08:48 GMT (UK): Thanks for trying, JC.....I know what it is about.....but just don't know the year. :-\

Someone else found it for me some time ago
but omitted the year. :-\

It was to do with the company Osborne, Bauer and Cheeseman setting up their business allegedly using recipes for soaps and perfumes that they were not permitted to do. :o ;)

......dee

P. S. Just read your message....do you think it is the same one that I have just tried to describe? Oh....if you don't mind....yes please! :D :D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 08:51 GMT (UK): ;D ;D ;D its on its way to you!
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 08:58 GMT (UK): Ok found the one dated Dec 15th and sent it to you too.

Jenny

added
also
C W T OSBORNE of the same firm died Oct 8, 1873
The Times, Monday, Oct 13, 1873; pg. 1; Issue 27819
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 09:01 GMT (UK): Many many thanks JC...will look in a minute.....just got to go open up the house....I think....just think....it is cooler outside than in.....cool change is on its way we have been told....be here by morning!

Thank goodness! :D :D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 11:40 GMT (UK): Quote from: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 08:58 GMT (UK)
Ok found the one dated Dec 15th and sent it to you too.

Jenny

added
also
C W T OSBORNE of the same firm died Oct 8, 1873
The Times, Monday, Oct 13, 1873; pg. 1; Issue 27819

This was Charlotte Elizabeth (Bauer)Lennard's maternal grandfather. :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 12:26 GMT (UK): DEEEEEEETWINNNNNN :o :o

Blimey Blimey ...how fab ..... So Charlotte and Joseph got divorced ....? wow!!

shall I try to look for her again in 1891 ... what did she do ? who could she be with ?

deb ;D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Brambletye on Monday 17 March 08 12:35 GMT (UK): Hi Deb! :D

Ooh...I wonder what Charlotte's calling herself? ???

Great stuff Dee, I'm thrilled to bits for you... :D :D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 12:39 GMT (UK): Hi Bramble

I can't find her under Brown or Allat .... looking for a marriage for her at the moment ...under Lennard and Bauer ....

deb ....I am sooooo happy we found out what happened to her ... we were all stumped when she just dissappeared ! 8)

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 12:43 GMT (UK): Quote from: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 12:26 GMT (UK)
DEEEEEEETWINNNNNN :o :o

Blimey Blimey ...how fab ..... So Charlotte and Joseph got divorced ....? wow!!

shall I try to look for her again in 1891 ... what did she do ? who could she be with ?

deb ;D :D

Two names were mentioned, Deb.....her doctor, Mr Brown, and a Tom Allatt, son of a publican. But I am sure you can discount Doctor John Brown.....he was cleared. And I am not really convinced that Charlotte was guilty....and I am not sure that JC is convinced either. She did plead connivance and condonation. JC has made the comment that Charlotte's father Hugh Bauer died in 1886.....maybe Charlotte didn't inherit as her husband expected her to.....one does wonder...... ??? ::)

I have had a look for Charlotte with a Tom Allett and also with a John Brown....no luck.

But isn't it exciting?

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 12:46 GMT (UK): Something I haven't mentioned......the Canadian descendent said that Hugh's widow and all the children except one went to Canada. I have always presumed that the one was Charlotte.

But what it it wasn't? :-\
What if Charlotte went to Canada with the family?

.....dee.....who was just going to bed! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 17 March 08 12:48 GMT (UK): And so the chase continues Dee.........It's like a mystery novel...........a new chapter each day!!!

Well done Dee and hunters. ;D ;D

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 12:50 GMT (UK): dee

where was she in 1881 ... I am sure we found her but wondered why she wasn't a cook anymore but a washerwoman , or something to that effect . Also I don't think she would have left her daughter behind .... Why did cecil get the child?

oooo all these unanswered questions ...

deb ;D

added ...ooops she was with cecil in 1881 ... sorry
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 12:52 GMT (UK): No....she wasn't a washerwoman or a cook....that was Louisa Bauer, Deb....all these Bauers get confusing. ;D ;D

Maybe the father got to keep the child as his right in those times. In fact, I am sure that would be the way of it....perhaps Bramble or JC can answer that.

Barbara...woooo......hooooo! I love it!

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 17 March 08 12:56 GMT (UK): If he was getting a divorce from her due to her adultery, then HE would get any children from the marriage. And as Dee says, it was the fathers right.

I'm getting quite excited for you Dee :D

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 13:00 GMT (UK): I think it was the case that the father kept the children back then.

Did you also notice Dee that there was another child born to the marriage but didin't survive! Anyone care to look please, I keep popping back in but I have emulsion all over the keyboard now ;D

I also did a quick check in Canada 1901 but nothing obvious - didn't look too hard though. Need to check marriages/deaths and arrivals for Canada under both names. Though I suspect she isn't too far away from her daughter back in the UK
Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 13:33 GMT (UK): Hi Jenny

do you think This could be the other Child?

Cecil Charles H Lennard b 1882 Wandsworth
death;
Cecil Charles H Lennard b 1882, died June q 1883 Wandsworth

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 13:41 GMT (UK): another question:

If Joseph Cecil Lennard went through all the 'scandal' of having a divorce in 1886 why on earth would he say he is married still in the 1891 census . What would your status be if you did get divorced ... single? I have not yet come across a divorcee before :-\

can't see Charlotte at all .... have tried some marriages for her but none work out!

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 13:48 GMT (UK): hi Debs, that certainly looks a likely candidate.

Re 1891 status, Joseph Cecil couldn't really call himself single or unmarried with a child in the house. I've never seen a divorce that early either, perhaps the enumerator hadn't either ;D

Perhaps he was telling the truth in 1901 and she had died.. but WHERE!
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 13:51 GMT (UK): Dee - the Bauer v Lennard 1887 could be at the LMA, I know they haven't digitised everything so it would be worth sending them an email to check if its there or not and could you have the reference for your friend.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 14:08 GMT (UK): Quote from: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 13:48 GMT (UK)
Perhaps he was telling the truth in 1901 and she had died.. but WHERE!

Not only WHERE ,but under what NAME ... she could have remarried .... arrrghhhh

deb :-\
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: geniecolgan on Monday 17 March 08 14:55 GMT (UK): Quote from: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 13:41 GMT (UK)
another question:

If Joseph Cecil Lennard went through all the 'scandal' of having a divorce in 1886 why on earth would he say he is married still in the 1891 census . What would your status be if you did get divorced ... single? I have not yet come across a divorcee before :-\
......

deb

Just to add my two cents worth ......

Lennard may have been granted a Decree nisi (Not absolute) if there was still a related case before the courts. e.g. Dr Brown was contesting the case.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_nisi

In which case, he would still technically be married until he partitioned for a Final Decree.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 15:32 GMT (UK): Dr Brown did contest and was awarded costs in Feb 1887 ;D so it was all done and dusted by then

Checking out the Canada side, which you probably already have (just in case Charlotte Elizabeth is hiding somewhere)

1888 emigration year

29 Apr 1891 Ada Margaret Bauer married Joseph Edwin Taylor, son of Edwin Taylor and Betsy Taylor

13 July 1893 Frederick Harvey Bauer married Mary Dowson, dau of William Dowson and Elizabeth Dowson

23 Jan 1901 -Herbert H Bauer married Sabra Woodhouse, dau of Robert Woodhouse and Hannah Eaton

1901 Census
Charlotte M Bauer mother b 8 feb 1839 original race or tribe German
Charles J Bauer head b 23 Dec 1860 original race or tribe English ?
Nellie M Bauer sister b 19 Nov 1873 original race or tribe German Nurse
Next door is
Herbert H Bauer head b 14 Oct 1876 original race or tribe German Motorman
Sabra Bauer wife b 26 Mar 1876 native Ontario
Toronto (City/Cité) Ward/Quartier No 3

13 April 1904 Charles married Emily Hargrave, dau of Joseph Hargrave and Elizabeth Barron

1911 – poor transcription BAUCH
2094 Yonge St N Toronto
Herbert Bauer born Oct 1876 immigration year 1888 labourer
Sabra bauer born march 1875 born Ontario
Wilfred Bauer born Oct 1901
Charles Bauer born Oct 1903
Grace Bauer born July 1906
Charlotte H Bauer born Mar 1908
Charlotte M Bauer mother born feb 1839 immigration year 1888
All Methodists and all down as original race English except Sabra = German

Charlotte Mary Bauer died 2 Apr 1919 District York Toronto age 81
Disease causing death Colitis 3 weeks
Immediate cause of death … carditis ? 8 days
Name of informant Charles H Watson . 1058 Younge street

You are right Charlotte is the only one not with the family in Canada
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 16:08 GMT (UK): WOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

marriage
31 Dec 1917 York District, Toronto

Charlotte Elizabeth Lennard
age 58
father Hugh Baner
mother Mary Osborne
married James Fiddament
born Norwich England
father James Fiddament
mother Charlotte Stevens

witness Fred H Bauer, 85 Courcelette Rd, Beach, Toronto
Witness Annie Davis

what a porkie = WIDOW! :o :o :o
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 16:28 GMT (UK): WOW WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!! WELL DONE!!!

So she did eventually go to Canada ... where was she inbetween .... arrghhhhh ..... at least we don't have to hunt for her death or another marriage as she married James using her married name .... ;D ;D

deb :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 16:31 GMT (UK): oooo

maybe we should look for James Fiddament in Norwich .... I wonder if he was the same age ? ...maybe she was hiding after all the 'scandal' ....she may not have even used her correct name or POB .... :-\

deb

maybe Joseph cecil said he was a widow ..as she had dissappeared !
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 16:33 GMT (UK): Hi Deb,

I have sent Dee the image plus some more info.... I think she would prefer to see iit before others do. I'll let her finish the story.....

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 16:56 GMT (UK): James Fiddament was 66 and a widower when they married in 1917

I'm just off to check to see who is with him in 1911 ca census
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 17:11 GMT (UK): James Fiddament was with his first wife in 1911.
Arabella Fiddament died in 1912, it said she was Irish on the death cert but she was English according to the all Censuses.
They are in England together 1891 ... probably poor transcription in 1901 somewhere.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 18:13 GMT (UK): a MRS Lennard arrived aboard the 'Vancouver' 1887
a rather poignant date

Passenger List of Ships Arriving at the Port of Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I'm not 100% as she arrived with a Miss A and a Miss E Lennard
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 21:09 GMT (UK): Hi

Hopefully it is Charlotte that arrived in 1887 ... that would make is easier for us as we would not have to hunt for her anymore in the UK . i wonder if The Miss E Lennard could possibly be her daughter Edith Margaret, who may have then returned to England by 1891.

I am going to see if Joseph Cecil had sisters ....

I hope Dee is a delighted and excited as i am with your great finds ! ;D

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 21:15 GMT (UK): Hi again

In 1861 Cecil lennard , 7, b Lambeth surrey is with his parents (dad is a cheesemonger) and a sibling ...ADA, 16, unm

In 1871 ..cecil still with parents, 16, unm, shopman and his siter ADA who is now married ...no surname ...

deb :-\
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 21:33 GMT (UK): Hi Deb... don't think Dee will be on for a while, she has to go food shopping this morning (her morning that is!) I can't wait for her to come back too! I shan't go to bed till she's online I know ;D

I would love the passengers in 1887 to be the right ones, problem is there is only the transcript on Ancestry - no images :(

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: geniecolgan on Monday 17 March 08 21:47 GMT (UK): Jenny,

there is an image of the ship's manifest on Archives Canada but it doesn't show much more than you found.

The Vancouver arrived Halifax, 1887/04/03, image 10 shows Mrs Lennard and two female children, A. Lennard age 4 and E. Lennard age 3.

P.S. I looked for then in 1901 but no luck yet.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 22:00 GMT (UK): ooooo ...

Okay edith margaret was b c 1880 ...I believe she was 10 months on the 1881 ... they have to be Charlotte's other children ...well that is , if Mrs Lennard ..is our Charlotte ...

I will have a look at births in Wandsworth for girls born 1883 (A Lennard) and 1884 (E lennard).

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 22:05 GMT (UK): nothing pops out except this one ... Joseph Cecil had a sister called Ada, Charlotte had a sisiter called Louise

Ada Louisa Lennard dec q 1885 Lambeth

deb

added Hi Genie ...lovely to see you again ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 17 March 08 22:19 GMT (UK): I do not believe this! :o :o :o

All this wonderful and exciting information , and I haven't even got time to absorb it. Only came online to check my "Twiglet" website, and only have 5 minutes to be here!

Drats......I want to stay home. >:(

JC....and all of you.....you are marvels! :D :D :D :D

But you'd better go to bed, JC....I won't be home till about about 3.00 a.m. your time......"I'll talk" in your tomorrow morning.

Oooooohhh.... :D :D :D

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 22:21 GMT (UK): ;D ;D ;D ;D

Debs, according to the divorce notes they only had 2 children and one died which leaves Edith Margaret :-\ - still no closer!

Morning DEE!!!!
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 22:22 GMT (UK): Dee check your email!!!!!!!!!!

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 22:27 GMT (UK): DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETWIN

Are you DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-lighted or WHAT? I am over the moon for you!!!!

welldone again Jenny !!!!

deb-twin ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 22:32 GMT (UK): Thanks for looking up the ships manefests Genie,

Shame the children were born between censuses, can't even go and check them :-\

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 March 08 22:41 GMT (UK): just a thought ...

can you find Miss A and E Lennard on any subsequent censuses ? Is charlotte on the 1891 census in canada?

arrghhh we have to find them .... 8)

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: geniecolgan on Monday 17 March 08 22:47 GMT (UK): Been looking on the 1901/1910 Deb ..... no go yet ...... I don't think there is an 1891 census for Canada avialable :-\
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Monday 17 March 08 22:47 GMT (UK): 1891 Canada is only part there - most of it is missing for some reason.
I'll see if I can find them in 1901

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 05:55 GMT (UK): Yes DEEEEEEEElighted and Amazed as well! I have just read through it all at least 5 times.

Then I went to do as JC suggested and checked my email. I didn't have time for that this morning. As it was, I kept my friend waiting! ;D ;D ;D Lucky she's into family history as well! ;D ;D

Many thanks JC! :D :D
Although having looked at what you sent, I must admit to feeling just a bit emotional..... :'( :'(

Charlotte Elizabeth (Bauer) Lennard married in Canada on 31st December 1917 to James Fiddament.

She died as an inmate of a hospital on Feb 28th 1918 from cancer.

What a very very sad ending to her story...... :'( :'(

.......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 07:03 GMT (UK): Evening/Morning Dee

Yes it is a very sad ending :'( :'(

James Fiddament's first wife also died of cancer :'(

We still can't find her during the missing 1891/01 and possibly 1911 census years. She isn't with her brothers Charles, Fred or Hubert. I don't know where Nellie is yet, possible a transcription error. I also haven't found Ada after her marriage either. Has your Canadian cousin filled in these details?

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 07:21 GMT (UK): G'day JC....a much better day here! :D

No....the Canadian cousin hasn't really given me many details of the families in Canada .....and I haven't had a reply from him yet to yesterday's email. That could take some time.

Just going to have my hot meal.....but afterwards I shall post any other info that I have found about the Canadian families.

.....dee :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 18 March 08 07:32 GMT (UK): Good news Dee..........and very sad news as well. And looking at the dates, poor James must have known she was very ill when they got married. How lovely is that!! :'(

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 08:11 GMT (UK): I have ......
......the 1901 Census info as you posted, JC.

......the 1901 Canadian census for Frederick Bauer, his wife Mary and children Hugh, Reginald and Dorothy.

....... Frederick's marriage to Mary Dowson in 1893,
.....the births of their children Harold Frederick in 1894,
..... Reginald Harvey Bauer in 1896,
.......the marriage of son Frederick William Hugh Bauer to Winifred May Toogood in 1921.

Then there's the births of ....
Charles Herbert Bauer to Herbert Hugh and Sabra Woodhouse in 1903,
......their daughter Charlotte Kathleen in 1909,
......daughter Grace Evelyn in 1906
......son Frederick William in 1894.
.......and son Wilfred Robert Hugh in 1901
.......the death of 7 month old son Osborne in 1916

Finally Charlotte Mary Bauer's death in 1919

That's about it except snippets given to me in emails.

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 08:21 GMT (UK): Interesting that you already have the information about brother Fred, and he is also the witness at Charlotte Elizabeth's marriage to James Fiddament.

I have a few bits and pieces to do today but will be popping back now and then

jc
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 08:25 GMT (UK): JC......I make the most of any opportunities I get with free days! :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: toni* on Tuesday 18 March 08 09:13 GMT (UK): erm as per usual i have lost the plot!
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 18 March 08 09:23 GMT (UK): Errrrrrrmmmmm............no comment........ ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 09:32 GMT (UK): Toni, things have happened so fast over the past couple of days. But the wonderful Scavengers led by JC have found that Charlotte Elizabeth Bauer who married Joseph Cecil Lennard actually ended up being divorced by him, emigrating to Canada, finally remarrying only to die from cancer two months later..... :D :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: toni* on Tuesday 18 March 08 09:36 GMT (UK): Hi Barbara ;D

Hi Dee, so what do you need to find now?
actualyl i have to admit that outsid eof England and Wales my knowledge of searching records is extremely low, and so if the serach is based in Canada i probably won't be able to help much more (not that i did a lot before)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 09:46 GMT (UK): Toni, the one I have nothing on after the 1851 Census is little George Bauer, born 1848 to Joseph Bauer and his second wife Emma Mansfield. I can't seem to see him in subsequent censuses, although I have found his mother, Emma Bauer, in 1861 at
RG9/42/ 93/ 2 working for the Countess of Longford as Cook/housekeeper. (The Bauers couldn't get away from the kitchen, could they? ;D ;D )

Can't see George's death either. :-\

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 09:57 GMT (UK): George isn't in Canada ;D

Dee, I am still puzzled over the Bauer v Lennard court case you mentioned earlier. If Charlotte's father had died and her mother and siblings all went to Canada - I wonder which Bauer took Lennard to court :-\ Did Charlotte revert to her maiden name in England?

Could you tell me where you found this snippet, it might lead to where the papers are kept.

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:06 GMT (UK): I found it on that site that I can no longer access, JC.......and the way I have saved it I didn't get the exact date....and of course I can't access it any more.

It was 1887 ...did you see this snippet I cropped and posted?

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: toni* on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:17 GMT (UK): deaths before 1866 didnt have ages listed did they plus the index is only searchable by qtr
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: seahall on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:20 GMT (UK): Hi Dee :)

Did you know what area or paper it was in to narrow it down a bit.

Sandy
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:26 GMT (UK): Sandy......I was so excited at having the free time. I searched madly but saved the wrong way and didn't get those details.

I just searched on Bauer and I know it came up under a heading of something to do with the Law. I am so cross with myself. I usually keep much better records than this!

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:27 GMT (UK): Quote from: toni* on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:17 GMT (UK)
deaths before 1866 didnt have ages listed did they plus the index is only searchable by qtr

That makes it tricky, I know Toni. :-\

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: seahall on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:38 GMT (UK): Hopefully this is it.

From the Daily News London Friday, January 21, 1887.

I was browsing on site till 1.30 last night. :)

Sandy
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:47 GMT (UK): Many thanks, Sandy.....that was it! :D :D
You're a star!

I was going to go back and resave it the way that gave me all the details....along with a couple of other articles.....but then lost access!

I had sat for hours going through 3000 Bauer references until my eyes were rolling! ;D

I have just renamed my file.

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: toni* on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:54 GMT (UK): well his (George) death is not listed 1866-1920 (full Index)
so if he did die it would be 1848-1865

added
and the only death i can see in that period is the George Bauer Q4 1860 Rotherham 9c 283
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 10:58 GMT (UK): And that seems most unlikely Toni..... :-\

I bet he's somewhere under another spelling variation. These Bauers were certainly good at that! ::)

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 13:35 GMT (UK): sister Ada Margarets second marriage :D

Marriage date 7 Mar 1898
district York

Ada Margaret Taylor age 27

father Hugh Bauer
mother Charlotte May Bauer

to
Edward Ernest Richards age 25
place of birth Ireland
Occupation Merchant
Parents C B and CM Richards
Witnesses:
Rose C Fook 2 Tacomaar
F Richards 1198 Younge st

I think Nellie went off and and was "living" with a Frederick Gammon as his wife in Simcoe, Ontario.. can't be sure but she was also born Nov 1873 migrated 1886? can't find a marriage for Fred in 1901
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 13:40 GMT (UK): Ada Margaret's first husband's death

Joseph Edwin Taylor
district York
died 1st June 1895
profession BAKER!!!!
Born Oldham Lancashire, ENGLAND
Brights disease 2 years
registered 4th June 1895
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 14:08 GMT (UK): 1911
Brighton Olive, Oak Bay, Nanaimo, BC
Edward Ernest Richards b Nov 1871? Ireland migrated 1909 Storekeeper
Ada Margaret Richards b May 1873 England migrated 1909!
Hilda Arthur? born Dec 1892 age 18
Margaret Jan 1895 age 16
Ruth Mary Mar 1899 age 12
Isabel Charlotte May 1901 age 10
Margaret May 1903 age 8
Dorothy Evelyn Dec 1904 age 7
Edith Nellie Oct 1906 age 5
David John Osborne mar 1907 age 3
Lillie Aug 1910 9 mths ;D
Ivy Aug 1910 9 mths ;D

all children called RICHARDS!

1901
Kootenay (West/Ouest), (Revelstoke Riding/Division Revelstoke), Yale & Cariboo, BC
Edward Richards age 28 migrated 1891 occ. Nailer?
Margaret Richards 30 migrated 1890
Hilda Richards Dec 27 1893 age 7born Ont
Margarite Richards Jan 10 1895 age 5 born Ont
Ruth Richards Mar 23 18999 age 2 born BC
Mary Richards 48 England migrated 1891
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 14:21 GMT (UK): I can't find the 2 eldest girls birth registrations in Ont :-\
I tried both Taylor and Richards

I wonder if they were adopted
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 16:04 GMT (UK): birth

Ruth Mary Richards 1899 3 23 Vancouver
reg 1899-09-119318
microfilm B13815 (GSU # 2134885)

Isabel C E Richards 1901 5 16 Arrowhead
reg 1901-09-271594
microfilm B13817 (GSU # 2134887

Margaret Mildred Richards 1903 5 31 Nelson
reg 1903-09-289831
microfilm B13819 (GSU # 2134889

BC births only go up to 1903 :(
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 16:11 GMT (UK): Death
1946 6 14
Ada Margaret Richards
Age 75
Victoria
reg 1946-09-008984
microfilm B13190 (GSU # 2032422)

1950 12 18
Edward Ernest Richards
age 78
Victoria
reg 1950-09-011524
microfilm B13206 (GSU # 2032634)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 16:17 GMT (UK): marriage
1923 7 13
Ruth Mary Richards
William Webster
Victoria
Reg 1923-09-256658
microfilm B13745 (GSU # 2074227)

1931 5 2
Dorothy Evelyn Richards
Thomas Allan Watson
Victoria
reg 1931-09-384464
microfilm B13761 (GSU # 2074557)

death
1986 8 9
Ivy Richards
Victoria
Reg 1986-09-012384
microfilm B16581 (GSU # 1358021)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 16:25 GMT (UK): possilbe death but her age is incorrect (10 years out?)
Dorothy Evelyn Watson age 86
1980 12 13
Vancouver
reg 1980-09-018706
microfilm B13608 (GSU # 2051484)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 16:53 GMT (UK): birth
Marguerite Taylor
DOB 10 Jan 1895
father Joseph Edwin Taylor
occ BAKER
mother Adagh MArgaret Baur
residence 1 Poplar Rain Road, City
registered 18 Feb 1895
Ontario, district York
roll number MS929_130

there was a transcription error as the page wasn't scanned properly
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 17:00 GMT (UK): marriage
1912 6 3
Marguerite Taylor
Sydney Smith :(
Victoria
reg 1899-09-009736
microfilm B11368 (GSU # 1983525)

:-\ possible death (the only one with the correct age in BC)
Marguerite Smith age 86
1978 5 9
Kimberley
reg 1978-09-011108
microfilm B13587 (GSU # 2051146)

Sydney Smith age 98
1984 6 28
Kimberley
reg 1984-09-011410
microfilm B13640 (GSU # 2073193)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 20:53 GMT (UK): Good Morning JC. :D

So much more information......Hugh's tree is going to grow considerably. Thankyou again.

It still hasn't all sunk in....slept so soundly and still half asleep! ;D ;D ;D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 21:14 GMT (UK): but still no sight of Charlotte Elizabeth in the missing years!

Ireland or France? :-\

Dee- have you looked in Oz! ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 21:20 GMT (UK): She couldn't have....she wopuldn't have......would she? :o :o

Hugh's probable brother Francois was dead by 1898. But just in case I'll check Victorian records......but unless she married or had a child, I probably won't see anything even if she did. ;D ;D

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 21:26 GMT (UK): maybe right in your own backyard! ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 21:27 GMT (UK): She could have come out to her Uncle Francois I suppose and then when he died or left the Hotel, gone on to Canada..... :-\

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 18 March 08 21:32 GMT (UK): I think you're now at the same stage I'm at with my Creeds, trying to find out where they originated before moving - for me Ireland - for you England. It really is difficult when you get to this point.

Do any of the marriage witness for Hugh/Francois/Joseph etc give any clues

Also if Hugh was a Perfumer, wouldn't he have had to study apocathary? there's a Guild in London and he would have taken an exam etc... unless he studied in Ireland >:(
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 18 March 08 21:41 GMT (UK): No mention of Charlotte Elizabeth Bauer in Victorian databases...... :-\

Yes....this family is nearly as far as I can go without taking them to the "extremely hard" section. ;D

Hugh Bauer was already working in the perfume business in 1841
HO107/736/10/8/9

He is listed as perfumer at age 17 but suspect he was an apprentice for the family he was living with.

This family has made it hard....none of the 3 older sons have ever been living with their father in a census.....the other two were at boarding school in 1841, as was sister Louisa!

Although father Joseph was always given as a cook, he must have had some money. He was a French refugee ....found a little newspaer article listing surnames of Franch refugees, and there were no other Bauers born Farnce in the censuses for that time, so it must have been Joseph.

Canadian family oral history says that he had been a chef in the French Royal Court......

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 20 March 08 08:29 GMT (UK): Have spent the day entering all the new information into my Hugh Bauer database. I noticed that one of Hugh's grandchildren was named Isabel. Was this a coincidence, or was she named after Isabella Bauer, mother of Francois, Louisa, and probably Joseph and Hugh? ???

I wonder...... :-\
Just another additional bit of circumstantial evidence.... :D :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 20 March 08 08:54 GMT (UK): Mornign Dee...

Yes I did notice that... hoping you would pick up on it! ;D As all these bits of circumstantial evidence grows it does seem to add weight wiht that they could all be from the same family.

Though, saying that - Isabel may be a name passed down the RICHARDS line, didn't he come from Oldham? Isabel was/is more popular the further north you get in England. I've noticed it occurs in all my northern lines but not once in my southern lines.

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 20 March 08 09:11 GMT (UK): These are the bits of circumstantial evidence we now have......

Hugh's father was named Joseph Bauer, a cook! And was supposed to be from France.
So was the father of my gg-grandfather Francois.....and he definitely was from France.
(Joseph Bauers are not thick on the ground in England during the 1841 or 1851 censuses.)

Hugh was a partner in the firm Osborne, Bauer and Cheeseman.

My grandfather often spoke of his family having a connection with that firm.

Recently I had a phone call from a grandson of my grandfather's brother. I have never spoken to him before. During our conversation he was telling me the only things he could remember his grandfather telling him. One was that the family was connected to the company Osborne, Bauer and Cheeseman. (I had not mentioned it.)

The photo similarities between the Australian Bauers and the Canadian Bauers.

My great great grandfather Francois named one of his son's Hugo. He also had a son Frederick who died in 1860, and Hugh named his third son Frederick in 1868.

Francois had a sister Louisa, and that name , together with a derirative of his mother's name Isabella, is used by the families.

Oh ....to find out the name of Hugh's mother....but Belfast, Ireland? ::) ::) ::)

Never mind....I am absolutely thrilled with what this Scavenger Hunt has revealed, and cannot find enough words to thank everyone who has helped. :D :D :D

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 20 March 08 09:38 GMT (UK): :-\ Hugh was born before registration in Ireland so that would be really difficult without a parish.
The only thing you have so far is he was a perfumer and Methodist in Belfast, that would narrow the search. Thats one to think about...
Trade directories might help, look for Perfumers over there

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 20 March 08 09:45 GMT (UK): Hugh was in England by 1841, aged 17....so would he have been apprenticed in Ireland before arriving in England?

And if his father was from France, maybe he was sent back to France to start to learn the trade.....

However, every avenue is worth trying...... :D :D

......dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 20 March 08 10:22 GMT (UK): "Methodist records between 1747 and 1817-18 are usually entered without distinction in the Church of Ireland parish registers. Between 1817-18 and 1878 a split in the Methodist church meant that the Wesleyan Methodist Connexion maintained separate registers. The best account of where Methodist records may be found is Steven ffeary-Smyrl's 'Irish Methodists', No. 1 in the Exploring Irish Genealogy series...."

quote http://www.eneclann.ie/Research/genealogy_research_guide.html

something to start with....
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 20 March 08 10:36 GMT (UK): Hence the commerce of this county is very extensive: the exports are linens, linen yarn, cotton goods, all kinds of grain, pork, bacon, hams, beef, butter, eggs, lard, potatoes, soap, and candles;

from Lewis Topographical Dictionary, 1837... so looking for soap manufacturers in particular! which also follows through to OB & C

and a little on soap history around that timeframe... which might come in handy at some point ::)
A major step toward large-scale commercial soapmaking occurred in 1791 when a French chemist, Nicholas Leblanc, patented a process for making soda ash, or sodium carbonate, from common salt. Soda ash is the alkali obtained from ashes that combines with fat to form soap. The Leblanc process yielded quantities of good quality, inexpensive soda ash.

The science of modern soapmaking was bom some 20 years later with the discovery by Michel Eugene Chevreul, another French chemist, of the chemical nature and relationship of fats, glycerine and fatty acids. His studies established the basis for both fat and soap chemistry.

Also important to the advancement of soap technology was the mid-1800s invention by the Belgian chemist, Ernest Solvay, of the ammonia process, which also used common table salt, or sodium chloride, to make soda ash. Solvay's process further reduced the cost of obtaining this alkali, and increased both the quality and quantity of the soda ash available for manufacturing soap.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 20 March 08 10:57 GMT (UK): did you see this one on the IGIs!! not your Hugh but maybe another brother's son!
HUGH BOWERS
Baptised 11 APR 1869 Belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Father JOHN BOWERS
Mother BRIDGET CASSIDY
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 20 March 08 21:51 GMT (UK): Quote from: jc26red on Thursday 20 March 08 10:57 GMT (UK)
did you see this one on the IGIs!! not your Hugh but maybe another brother's son!
HUGH BOWERS
Baptised 11 APR 1869 Belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Father JOHN BOWERS
Mother BRIDGET CASSIDY

Now that is very intersting, JC. Of course it could just be entirely coincidental, BUT in 1841 Joseph Bauer was recorded as Joseph BOWER, cook, from France. :D :D

The article on soapmaking is very interesting indeed.....thanks for that too. And I'll have a look at the link you gav e me a bit later in the day. :D

.....dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 20 March 08 22:21 GMT (UK): Dee I'm scraping the barrel, literal to see if there are any clues - anywhere

I haven't done any Northern Ireland searches of my own... they are just too plain difficult. Maybe a word on the Ireland board asking about soap manufacturing - someone might have access to an early directory.

Jenny
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 20 July 09 09:03 BST (UK): Sixteen months since wonderful Rootschatters were helping me with this.....and I'd got no further with definitely proving that Hugh Bauer was a brother to my gg-grandfather Francois.

And then a few minutes ago I was searching the National Library of Australia Australian Newspapers website where gradually more and more newspapers are being digitised. And I've found the proof!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I can't access it properly just yet, as the notice says

"The newspaper issue containing this article is currently being processed. This issue will be accessible shortly."

But the snippet that is there on the search results is enough for me to be able to read the following .......

The Argus, Melbourne, Victoria Saturday 8th January 1887

Personal Notices

Deaths

On the 1st August 1886, at ??????? England, Hugh Bauer, brother of Francis Bauer, Cowes, Phillip Island.

So.......we now have a definite link between the Canadian Bauers and my Australian Bauers!

Made my day, it has!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Dee .....who can't stop smiling........ ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 20 July 09 09:43 BST (UK): Well done Dee.............I can imagine the smile on your face ;D ;D ;D

Now just sit back and wait for the paper to be fully digitised.......do you think you can do that?? ;) ;)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 20 July 09 09:47 BST (UK): It's going to be very difficult, Barbara.

I want it now! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 20 July 09 09:54 BST (UK): You could always write to them and ask for a scan of the relevant page.......would they do that??
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 20 July 09 10:03 BST (UK): I doubt it....I may only have to wait a few days.......

I'm just amazed....a random Google search of Bauer +Phillip Island brought up a Personal Notice from Francois about the death of his son Joseph. So I went to the NLA Newspaper website and searched for Bauer and found all the Personal Notices so far scanned from the Argus, and suddenly I found that.....among others.

:D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 20 July 09 10:09 BST (UK): It's amazing what's coming on line these days, you just have to keep googling all the time, you never know what could be next. ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 20 July 09 10:10 BST (UK): There's hope for your missing person yet! ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 20 July 09 10:16 BST (UK): Quote from: deeiluka on Monday 20 July 09 10:10 BST (UK)
There's hope for your missing person yet! ;D

I wont hold my breath!! :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: toni* on Monday 20 July 09 10:43 BST (UK): Quote from: jc26red on Thursday 20 March 08 09:38 GMT (UK)
:-\ Hugh was born before registration in Ireland so that would be really difficult without a parish.
The only thing you have so far is he was a perfumer and Methodist in Belfast, that would narrow the search. Thats one to think about...
Trade directories might help, look for Perfumers over there

Jenny

Methodists have records
try the Methodist chapel in Belfast
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 20 July 09 10:46 BST (UK): Thanks Toni.....I may do that after my upcoming trip away, but right now I'm just so happy to have absolutely proved that Hugh really was a brother of my gg-grandfather.

Dee :D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: geniecolgan on Monday 20 July 09 18:53 BST (UK): I'm so happy for you Dee.

Now you've tied them all together, I can see your smile from here ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 21 July 09 06:07 BST (UK): Yes....still smiling about that, Genie. And have had an email back from the Canadian cousin suggesting we have a family reunion! :o :o

I hope they will look at coming here! ;D ;D ;D

Next step is to enter all the information about Hugh and his family into my database. :D

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 23 July 09 12:39 BST (UK): Thought everyone might like to know that I am finding so much more out about Francois Joseph Bauer and his life in Victoria, Australia, thanks to the brilliant digitisation of old Australian newspapers by the National Library.

Eventually he started working for himself and in 1866 he palced an advertisement in the Argus newspaper describing himself as a Chef De Cuisine.

Take a look at some of the people he claimed to have lived with. For lived with I'd substitute worked for. ;D ;D

Paris.
Tuilleries, in reign of Louis Phillippe.
General Lafayette, Prime Minister.

England.
Lord de Tabley, two years.
Carlton Club, two years.
Gunler's first extra hand.
Marquis of Ailsa.
Lord Ravensworth.
Sir George Wombwell.
Lord Adolphus Fitzclarence.
Lord and Lady Marion Alford, five years.
Sir John Coates.
Lord Braybrooke.
Marquis of Bath.
Mr. and Lady Harriet Clive.
Duke of Sutherland, &c.

Victoria.Sir Henry Barkly, five years.
Union Club.

And I think he stretched the truth somewhat too.....it would have been his father Joseph who worked for Louis-Phillippe and Lafayette. ;) ;D ;D

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Saturday 25 July 09 04:36 BST (UK): nice when it all falls in place isn't it.... great feeling, well done Dee!

Quote
Lord Ravensworth.
One of my distant rellies-in-law 8)
maybe not so cool as it was 3grandfather's niece that married his Lordship's daughter and her husband gambled away our inheritance!
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 25 July 09 05:06 BST (UK): I'm still feeling very happy about it all, JC. :D :D

Have to tell you.....two years after the above advertisement went in the newspaper, Francois was in the Insolvency Court in Melbourne! ;D ;D ;D

Once he got that sorted, he moved on to Phillip Island and his Isle of Wight Hotel...... here's a quote from one of his many advertisements for that.....

"Host BAUER, In returning thanks for past favours,desires to inform his numerous patrons that the ISLE of WIGHT HOTEL is now ready for reception of visitors. Ladies can have the free privilege of receiving lessons in the culinary department, which is still under the superintendance of F. BAUER, Proprietor."

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: cando on Saturday 25 July 09 05:56 BST (UK): Dee we have an wonderful Aussie chatter who regularly visits NLA. When I recently found an 'unprocessed' death announcement about my elusive gg grandfather [my only brickwall but a biggie] this wonderful chatter was kind enough to look at the archived Argus for me and pm the information. I just couldn't wait....after all I had been looking for any information about him post 1847 since I started my family research ::) ::)

Would you like me to ask if she can help you?

Regards
Cando
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 25 July 09 06:37 BST (UK): Cando, I'd appreciate that greatly, if you think she wouldn't mind.

All I have is the reference that I found....and which now seems to have vanished.....

The Argus, Melbourne, Victoria Saturday 8th January 1887

Personal Notices

Deaths

Deaths

On the 1st August 1886, at ? England, Hugh Bauer, brother of Francis Bauer, Cowes, Phillip Island.

I'm pretty sure that the message went on to mention his brother Joseph, who also died in 1886....but you know what the scrambled text can be like before it is corrected.

Dee :D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: cando on Saturday 25 July 09 07:04 BST (UK): You are correct dee...it has vanished. Perhaps it is being 'processed'. I will send the request anway. If it does come online we can always let her know the lookup isn't required.

Cheers
Cassie
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Saturday 25 July 09 08:20 BST (UK): Quote from: deeiluka on Thursday 23 July 09 12:39 BST (UK)
Lord Braybrooke.

Presumably the same individual who published Samuel Pepys Diary. My namesake (who I have yet to find a family link to) supplied notes for the 3rd Volume of Pepys Diary and I presume he also worked alongside Lord Braybrooke (he lived at Audley End, near Saffron Walden).
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jc26red on Saturday 25 July 09 08:57 BST (UK): James, have you tried googling "Lord Braybrooke" and also do a search on google books... Lords tend to pop up quite easily ;)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Saturday 25 July 09 11:06 BST (UK): I have. I am constantly searching on Google Books for any links to family. I also use Archive.com as well.

There's always a lot to check.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 25 July 09 11:20 BST (UK): Thanks to googling, I've worked out when Francois Joseph Bauer worked for Lord Alford and Lady Marion Alford. His son Francois was born at Berkhampstead! :D :D

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Sunday 26 July 09 06:02 BST (UK): Where would we be without 'Google'............ ;D ;D ;D

Well done on the info Dee :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: judb on Monday 27 July 09 04:42 BST (UK): Hi all

Thanks to Cando who sent me the link to this thread and here's the transcripts of the TWO death notices.

The Argus, Saturday January 8, 1887 (Melbourne, Australia)

Personal Notices
DEATHS

Bauer - On the 21st August, 1866, at Canterbury, England, Hugh Bauer, brother of Francis Bauer, Cowes, Phillip Island.

Bauer - On the 2nd October, 1866, in London, Joseph Bauer, brother of Francis Bauer, Cowes, Phillip Island.

Hope that helps!

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: cando on Monday 27 July 09 05:09 BST (UK): Thank you Judith...wonderful service ;D Dee will be delighted with this info.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 28 July 09 10:07 BST (UK): Hi Judith, :D :D

Many many thanks for your kindness.....it's very much appreciated. That information absolutely confirms what I've been trying to prove for so long! I'm thrilled....and so is my 90 year old mother.

Thanks also to Cando for getting in touch with you. :D :D

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 28 July 09 10:11 BST (UK): At a guess..........I'd say you're very happy Dee ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 28 July 09 10:21 BST (UK): :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Not just proof about Hugh.....but Joseph also.....that's an added bonus!

Happiness is........breaking down a genealogy brick wall........ ;) :D

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 06:40 BST (UK): For the interest of all those who helped with this hunt, not only has my brickwall been broken down, but I am now also discovering more information to fill some gaps. :D :D

Firstly, I've found the baptism records for both children of Charlotte Elizabeth BAUER and Joseph Cecil Lennard, and thus have their birth dates as well.

I've also got the baptism records of Emily Jane and Mary Eliza Bauer, daughters of Joseph Bauer and Jane Lee. Not only that, but I've also found baptisms for two little sons who must have died between censuses.

Plus baptisms for two of the children of Hugh Bauer and Charlotte Osborne makes the past twenty four hours a very successful one.

As usual, I had to use creative spelling for the name BAUER when searching. ;D

There's been nothing to take me back further though. :(

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Tuesday 29 September 09 07:18 BST (UK): Dee,

No links to the Bauers I found, I presume?
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 07:33 BST (UK): Not at this stage, unfortunately, James.

The difficulty is linking any of them back to my Jospeh Bauer, who came from France...... :-\

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 29 September 09 11:35 BST (UK): Well done Dee..........Chalk up another success for the Scavenger Hunts.......sort of ;) ;)

I'm real chuffed for you.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 11:39 BST (UK): Thanks Barbara. :)

The re's no sign of a marriage for Joseph and Isabella though.......I was really hoping I'd stumble across one. :-\

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 29 September 09 11:40 BST (UK): It'll come Dee.......Patience dear girl, Patience ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 29 September 09 12:14 BST (UK): Hi Dee-twin and Barbara ;D

I am rereading the thread ;D ...can you tell me what/who we are still searching for.

I see on Charlotte Elizabeth Bauer's marriage to joseph Lennard that the witnesses are Hugh Bauer and Ada Margaret Bauer. Who is Ada Margaret??

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 12:21 BST (UK): Hello Deb-Twin! :D :D

I've pretty much got this lot sorted now back to Joseph Bauer born France, (father Nicholas Bauer) and his wife Isabella. That's the next brick wall to break down, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm just gradually filling in gaps with images from A******* from London Parish Records.

it was such a good feeling to finally find proof that Hugh was indeed one of my Joseph's sons and brother to my Francois.

Dee :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 29 September 09 12:33 BST (UK): Dee :)

This was one of the best scavenger hunts ....and sooo interesting. ;D

LPRs are wonderful ...I just wish I had more rellies from there.

deb :)

added ..wasn't Isabella's MN Leopold/ Leo something or other?
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 12:38 BST (UK): Leo***** something, Deb........that was a real guessing game!

I've just discovered that Jospeh was a Messman in Barracks in Heston, Middlesex in 1833 when Louisa Isabella was baptised!

More questions there!

Dee :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 29 September 09 12:48 BST (UK): ummm Dee ..I have just seen that ...what would a messman do? Was he cooking or making perfume ?? LOL ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 12:52 BST (UK): Joseph's father = Nicholas Bauer.
Today I found the baptism of a child to a Nicholas and Mary Ann Bauer in 1825 at St M ary's, Lambeth, Surrey!

I can't find anything else about Nicholas though.......I'm wondering if he was a brother to Joseph. :-\

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 29 September 09 13:00 BST (UK): Hi Dee

That baptism shows Nicholas to be a weaver. Do you think he is yours? The child's name doesn't seem to follow with the family names.

I also need to remember who is who. ::)

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Lydart on Tuesday 29 September 09 13:02 BST (UK): However did I manage to miss this ? ??? ???

Right ... back to page one ...
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 13:07 BST (UK): Quote from: deb usa on Tuesday 29 September 09 13:00 BST (UK)
Hi Dee

That baptism shows Nicholas to be a weaver. Do you think he is yours? The child's name doesn't seem to follow with the family names.

I also need to remember who is who. ::)

deb

I've no idea, Deb.....just clutching at straws> Look how many straws have turned into solid bricks throughout this hunt. :D :D

Quote from: Lydart on Tuesday 29 September 09 13:02 BST (UK)
However did I manage to miss this ? ??? ???

Right ... back to page one ...

Oooh Lydart.....more reading! ;D ;D

It does turn out to be a good story though...... ;)

Gotta call a halt for tonight..... eye needs some rest. :(

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 29 September 09 13:11 BST (UK): Night Dee.... you never know what may be here when you wake up !!! :D

Hi Lydart :) :)

debtwin
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Lydart on Tuesday 29 September 09 13:27 BST (UK): Hi Deb !

I only got through a few pages when I realised this was part TWO ... so I need to find and read part 1 !

Alas ... got to go out ... job for this evening maybe ...
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 29 September 09 13:48 BST (UK): Lydart ...

This was a great hunt. The link to part 1 is on page 1 here. :)

I have found Isabella's burial.

Isabella BAUER, Heston, Barracks, aged 32. Buried: Dec 19th, 1833

Isabella and Joseph Bauer's daughter, Louisa Isabella, was baptised Dec 16th, 1833, Heston, Barracks!

Looks like Isabella may have died from childbirth and was buried 3 days after the baptism!

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 22:37 BST (UK): Oh Deb.....where on earth did you find that! You're a star! :D :D :D

Very sad about Isabella......but I suspected that she died in childbirth.

What a brilliant start to my day!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: geniecolgan on Tuesday 29 September 09 22:51 BST (UK): Never mind Dee :'(

It was a long time ago ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 22:59 BST (UK): It was, Genie.....now if only her maiden name would magically appear! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 29 September 09 23:37 BST (UK): Hi Dee

Found it on the new London Databases.....I can send you the image ...but I think you have access ...if not let me know.

poor Isabella .... but now at least we know she was born circa 1801 ...but where? I am thinking that she must have married Joseph in England....unless she was in France.

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 29 September 09 23:52 BST (UK): ....or Ireland...that's where Hugh was baptised! :o ::)

Yes....I do have access thanks....so shall try to find it myself. Were you able to search by name, or was it one of those where you have to go through page after page of images?

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 30 September 09 00:03 BST (UK): hi dee

- London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 ...no you don't scroll through ...just insert name into this database on Ancestr*

Isabella Bauer
Burial
Event Date: 29 Dec 1833...........................original is def. the 19th
Age: 32
bc 1801
Saint Leonard, Heston
Hounslow
Middlesex
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 30 September 09 00:30 BST (UK): Brilliant, Deb......shall have a look shortly.

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou....... :D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Wednesday 30 September 09 07:55 BST (UK): Give yourself a big pat on the back Deb, that was a brilliant piece of detective work. :D :D :D

It's all coming together Dee........great.

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 30 September 09 08:38 BST (UK): And I now have the image, thanks Deb..... :)

How I missed it I do not know! ::)

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 30 September 09 11:57 BST (UK): morning girls :)

I know you'll be off to bed soon ...maybe something else will turn up by the time you wake up tomorrow or would that be today for me ? ;D ;D

Dee ...what else are you missing that we can look for.

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 30 September 09 12:14 BST (UK): It's going backwards mostly now, Deb. :-\

Mind you....young George Bauer, born 1848, Ilseworth, Middlesex to Joseph Bauer and second wife Emma disappears after 1851. :-\

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 30 September 09 12:37 BST (UK): Hi Dee

Can't see a death for George b 1848, will look some more.

Who did Francois marry? .... I need to update myself again :)

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 30 September 09 12:40 BST (UK): Sarah Ann Blades was Francois senior's wife.

I've been collecting images for her family as well. Now her parents were Joseph Blades and Eliza Babb, eldest daughter Emma born in 1821 in Camberwell. I have the family pretty well in control after that.

But there's a marriage I'm wanting! Joseph and Eliza! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 30 September 09 13:08 BST (UK): Dee

IGI has Emma b 1821 as born and christened in Surrey

extracted;

EMMA ELIZA BLADES
d/o Joseph Blades and Eliza Babb
born 29 MAY 1821
chr; 27 JUN 1821 Saint Mary, Newington, Surrey

an older child also born and Christened there:
JULIA BLADES = chr 11 FEB 1825 Saint Mary, Newington

first child born in Camberwell was ;
FREDERIC JAMES BLADES born 17 DEC 1829 and chr; 13 JAN 1830 Saint George, Camberwell,

so it's likely that Joseph and Eliza were married in surrey ...can't see anything for them on IGI.

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 30 September 09 13:17 BST (UK): You're right, Deb...I should have checked my database before posting......time for bed, methinks. ;D ;D

No....no marriage on the IGI......I have all the records from there.

THanks for trying.....

Dee :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 30 September 09 13:34 BST (UK): sleep well!

Still no luck for George b 1848 Isleworth ...will keep searching!

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 10:18 BST (UK): George is a real problem....definitely a missing person!

Quote from: deb usa on Wednesday 30 September 09 13:08 BST (UK)

first child born in Camberwell was ;
FREDERIC JAMES BLADES born 17 DEC 1829 and chr; 13 JAN 1830 Saint George, Camberwell,

deb

So is Frederic James Blades a missing person.....after that record, nothing. He's not on the 1841 Census, so I expect he died. :-\

I also have…..
Emma Eliza Blades born 1821
Julia Blades born 1825
Walter Henry Blades c 1821
Catherine Louisa Blades born 1837
Marion Emily Blades c1841

All siblings of Sarah Ann Blades who married Francois Bauer in 1851.
Parents are Joseph Blades and Eliza Babb.

I can find no other information for the above ….no deaths. I have possible marriages for the girls from FreeBMD, but can’t track them down in censuses.

There are other children, but I have their marriages and census records.

So…..if you feel like it.......any help with these would be appreciated……..

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 12:09 BST (UK): morning Dee :)

Frederick James Blades was christened at Albany Rd, can't make out occ of dad ...looks like "gen**"

There is a burial of a James Blades , Camberwell, on the 25th Sept 1831 ..age 10 months which would make him bc Dec 1830 ...so he is a year off from Fred James .... ummmmm...will look some more.'

I will look for the girls too! ;D

deb :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 12:13 BST (UK): Thanks Deb.......they've been put aside in frustration so.o.o.o.o.o.o.o many times.

In 1841 Thomas Blades and Walter Blades were away at school.
1056/29/13

Rest of the family were 1050/9/9

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 12:16 BST (UK): oooohhh Dee

There is also a THOMAS CHARLES BLADES s/o Joseph Blades and Eliza BABB
born 14 MAR 1827
chr 11 APR 1827 Saint George, Camberwell,
IGI extracted

His christening is on the London Database ...father Joseph = GENTLEMAN ...still at Albany Rd

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 12:21 BST (UK): Thomas, 14 and Walter, 9, are together in 1841 as scholars in Lambeth ..can't make out name of school

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 12:24 BST (UK): Yes....I have Thomas Charles and frank Joseph's marriage image and also their families.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 12:27 BST (UK): I am sure you know this already but Joseph Blades is indicated as a Gentleman on Sarah Anne Blades' marriage certificate as well.

Frank Joseph Blades married Rose Anne Mac Hale on 25 December 1861 at St. Mary Magdalene, Woolwich. He was son of Joseph Blades, clerk and she was the daughter of Hubert Mac Hale, a licensed victualler.

Witnesses: (illegible) Mac Hale and Sarah Anne Bauer.

Addendum: whoops, I'm going over old ground. Many apologies.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 12:28 BST (UK): 1851 = Thomas Blades, unm, 24, lodger, police constable, b Camberwell
living at Gothic Cottages, Heston

1861 = Thomas C Blades , 34, now living with his mum and dad, siblings and nephew Francis BAUER

Thomas is pretty easy to follow. :D

deb

PS ..why do the red notices not come up anymore??
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 12:30 BST (UK): Do you have Maria Emily Blades' marriage to John Priest?

As well as Frances Blades' marriage to William Balcomb?
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 12:33 BST (UK): No James......only the possibility on FreeBMD....... :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 12:33 BST (UK): ahh okay ...sorry :-\

okay will concentrate on the ones you mentioned ;

Emma Eliza Blades born 1821
Julia Blades born 1825
Walter Henry Blades c 1821
Catherine Louisa Blades born 1837
Marion Emily Blades c1841
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 12:33 BST (UK): They're more than possibilities. Their father in both cases is Joseph Blades, gentleman.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 12:36 BST (UK): Is there a Charles Joseph Blades?

I have a son of his called Frank Blades, a bookseller, marrying an Ellen Elizabeth Howard on 18 September 1910 at Christ Church, North Brixton (the correct area too).

Charles Joseph Blades is also noted as a Gentleman.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 12:38 BST (UK): I can't keep up.

James, I have Francis (Frank's) marriage.

Joseph Blades was a clerk in Her majesty's Stationery Office.

Deb....re the red notices...it is supposedly temporary....but very frustrating.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 12:41 BST (UK): Quote from: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 12:36 BST (UK)
Is there a Charles Joseph Blades?
I have a son of his called Frank Blades, a bookseller, marrying an Ellen Elizabeth Howard on 18 September 1910 at Christ Church, North Brixton (the correct area too).

Charles Joseph Blades is also noted as a Gentleman.

Yes....he's the son of Thomas Charles, grandson of Joseph. :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 12:41 BST (UK): Hi Dee

death:
Catherine Louisa Blades
dec q 1860
Lambeth ,
1d 253
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 12:47 BST (UK): Marion Emily Blades married John Priest on 9 June 1864 at St. Mary at Lambeth, Surrey.

Both are of Full Age and residents of Brixton.

John Priest is a Solicitor and son of John Daniel Priest, a Woollen Merchant
Marion Emily Priest is the daughter of Joseph Blades, a Gentleman

I cannot make much sense of the witnesses.

Frances Blades married William Balcombe on 14 June 1866 at St. Stephen's Church, Paddington.

Both are of Full Age.

William Balcombe is a Gentleman, and resident at the Cornwall Hotel, Talbot Road (presumably Paddington) and Frances Blades is resident of 12 Leamington Road Villas.

William Balcombe is the son of James Balcombe, an Assessor of Taxes
Frances Blades is the daughter of Joseph Blades, a Gentleman

One of the witnesses is William Blades.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 12:51 BST (UK): Thanks Deb and James.

Deb.....don't know why I havdn't found that death! ::)

James......info on Marion's marriage very gratefully received. :D
However, I don't have a Frances Blades....not on any of the censuses. Perhaps there's another Joseph Blades, gentleman.

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 13:02 BST (UK): Quote from: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 12:51 BST (UK)

*snip*

However, I don't have a Frances Blades....not on any of the censuses. Perhaps there's another Joseph Blades, gentleman.

Dee

This might be them on the 1871 census:

RG10/45/65/59
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 13:05 BST (UK): I'll have a look, James ...... :D

I just found a baptism in 1850 for a Jospeh Blades, son of Frederic and Eliza Ann. Wonder if this is my Frederic. Baptism was at St Mary's, Lambeth.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 13:11 BST (UK): Quote from: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 12:27 BST (UK)
I am sure you know this already but Joseph Blades is indicated as a Gentleman on Sarah Anne Blades' marriage certificate as well.

Frank Joseph Blades married Rose Anne Mac Hale on 25 December 1861 at St. Mary Magdalene, Woolwich. He was son of Joseph Blades, clerk and she was the daughter of Hubert Mac Hale, a licensed victualler.

Witnesses: (illegible) Mac Hale and Sarah Anne Bauer.

Addendum: whoops, I'm going over old ground. Many apologies.

seems that this couple had a Catherine Louisa Blades
This Catherine married a Robert Daniel Jones May 20th, 1888 , South Hackney

... my screen all wonky ...will add details in a bit
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 13:14 BST (UK): By the way, where was Eliza Babb ? born?

It maybe possible to find her if her middle name is indeed Babb.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 13:16 BST (UK): Ahhhh Deb....that's one of the FreeBMD marriages I found for a Catherine Louisa! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 13:21 BST (UK): Hi James

Looks like she was born circa 1800, Bermondsey according to 1851 census. the 1861 and 1871 confirm this. She died in 1879. Isn't Babb her maiden name?

nothing on IGI for her as Babb :-\

deb

ps nice to see you again, James ... we were on the HEDGES thread :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 13:24 BST (UK): I've never been able to find out anything about either Eliza BABB or Joseph BLADES such as their marriage or baptisms or anything further back.

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 13:26 BST (UK): I believe Babb is her middle name, not her surname.

All the christenings to Joseph Blades and Eliza show the Babb part of her name. It is very uncommon for a surname to be mentioned in English christenings.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 13:27 BST (UK): Quote from: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 13:05 BST (UK)
I'll have a look, James ...... :D

I just found a baptism in 1850 for a Jospeh Blades, son of Frederic and Eliza Ann. Wonder if this is my Frederic. Baptism was at St Mary's, Lambeth.

Dee ..I think this is the child of a Frederick THOMAS Blades and Mary Ann Turner
on baptism (7 South St) Fred, the dad, is a Machine man.

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 13:31 BST (UK): OK....scrap that one then, Deb. Thanks for that. :)

Re BABB, James....I'll check where I found that and let you know tomorrow. I really must stop for a few hours.

Much appreciation to you both for your help. :) :)

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 13:34 BST (UK): The name Babb appears on every single christening for children found so far. I still believe it's a middle name though, unless the couple never married and were genuinely being honest about it.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 13:49 BST (UK): Night Dee ...sleep well! :)

I am going through IGI .... for Eliza b 1800 +/- 2 years arrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh LOL

hopefully we'll find her Dee

James, I'm looking for Babb middle names. :)

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 14:02 BST (UK): I'm currently trawling through the christening records between 1798 and 1802 for St. Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey. No luck yet. I'll check St. Olave, Bermondsey next.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 14:16 BST (UK): Hi James

I am searching St Olave, Bermondsey at the moment ...although I am only looking at christenings in 1800

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 14:35 BST (UK): nothing for St Olave ..1799, 1800, 1801 and 1802
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 22:33 BST (UK): Thanks for trying Deb and James. :)

I'll enjoy sitting here later today to sort and enter what you've helped me with with all these Blades children.

Eliza and Joseph are mysteries........ :-\

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Lydart on Thursday 01 October 09 23:03 BST (UK): I just can't get the hang of this thread I'm afraid Dee, but I am impressed with how much info everyone has found for you, especially DebUSA ! She's great ... she was the one who discovered my 2xgr. grandfather was kicked to death by a carthorse !
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 23:10 BST (UK): The thread has gone on so long aned evolved so much, Lydart. I know what you mean....I'm the same when another Scavenger Hunts has several pages before I get to read it.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 23:17 BST (UK): Hi girls ;D

Lydart ...thanks for your kind words ...I remember your 2ndxgr granddad well LOL...poor guy!

Dee ...I searched for Eliza Babb and Joseph Blade/s with no luck ...London/Middlesex really confuses me. I searched Lambeth St Mary and Bermondsey for Eliza and Westminster/City of London St Margarets for Joseph ...absolutely nada/nyet/nothing!!!

who are you still missing Dee? what marriages /births etc etc

deb on the vino :D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 23:20 BST (UK): I'll sort it out through the day, Deb.....and post what is still missing on here ready for when you're back. :D :D

I couldn't keep up last night....you and James were so good....... 8)

.....dee.....eating breakfast cereal....... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 23:31 BST (UK): ooo Deeeeeeeeeeee

remember the kids were baptised at Albany Rd ...well look at this ...not sure if it's much use but thought I ould post just in case.

National Archives

MS 11936/538/1153601 3 April 1833
These documents are held at Guildhall Library

Contents:
Insured: Joseph Blades, 1 Stratford Place Albany Road Kent Road, gent

will look for more

deb :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 23:40 BST (UK): Now that could be interesting, Deb...... :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 01 October 09 23:44 BST (UK): Dee

Joseph Blades was a clerk in Her Majesty's Stationary Office ...I wonder if this has anything to do with him?

National archives

Blades & East of London EK-U1453/B3/15/156
Partnership in printing. [East Kent Archives Centre, Cobb of Margate, Family...] Date: 1831.

Copyright Office: Entry Forms, etc. COPY 1/377/23634
Photograph of ruins caused by fire at Mess'rs Blades, East & Blades, Finsbury, fire engine & fireman at right of picture." Copyright owner and author of work: William Wright, 98 Cheapside, London. Form Completed 11 September 1886. Registration Date: 1886.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 01 October 09 23:54 BST (UK): I wonder, Deb......another thing for me to have a look at.
One of his sons worked in the printing industry, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Friday 02 October 09 00:20 BST (UK): hi Dee

Yes ... in 1861 Thomas Charles is a lithographer and Frank is following in his dad's footsteps. Also in1861 Joseph and Eliza have a gr dau with them .. Emma Hanks?? , 7 b ?? Town ......................... who is she??

In 1871 ...John Priest (30, solicitor) , son-in-law is living with joseph and Eiza, along with Sarah A Bauer (48) and Francois Bauer (15).

DEB
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 00:27 BST (UK): Deb, I have no idea who Emma Hanks is. :-\

I'll try and get a summary done today.

Dee........supposedly doing eye treatment..... .. ;)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Friday 02 October 09 00:33 BST (UK): another family doc , Dee

NA:
BLADES COR/3/2/1914/137 6 Oct 1914
These documents are held at East Sussex Record Office

Contents:
Annie Maria of 165 Elm Grove, Brighton, wife of Frank MacHale Blades, master tailor; 42; suddenly, apoplexy; natural causes. For warrant see 136 above

the warrant 136 above refers to this : not sure how they relate :-\
Contents:
Ellen of 21 Tichborne Street, Brighton, wife of Raynard Riches, ice cream vendor; 60; hypostatic pneumonia following the fracture of the right ankle caused by a fall whilst endeavouring to board a tramcar in Preston Circus on 25 Sep; accidental death

Quote from: James R. Yeowell on Thursday 01 October 09 12:27 BST (UK)

Frank Joseph Blades married Rose Anne Mac Hale on 25 December 1861 at St. Mary Magdalene, Woolwich. He was son of Joseph Blades, clerk and she was the daughter of Hubert Mac Hale, a licensed victualler.

Witnesses: (illegible) Mac Hale and Sarah Anne Bauer.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 01:02 BST (UK): Brilliant, Deb..... :D :D

I'm just about to start trying t o collate all this and sort it all out.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Friday 02 October 09 01:20 BST (UK): Dee Twin

I'll leave you with it :) ...I'll be back in the morning ...watching one of my fave programs "Bones" ...LOL

once you have sorted through , leave a list of what needs to be found.

I must admit I am still looking for Joseph and Isabella bauer. Can't see her birth on IGI France. Can't see a marriage either. :-\ :(

anyay ...see you tomorrow

deb twin. :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 01:29 BST (UK): I've made a good start, Deb. :)

Goodnight.

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 06:49 BST (UK): Summary of the Blades family......
Starting with the children of Joseph and Emma Babb Blades.....

1.
Emma Eliza Blades born 1821
Married John Dyson Willey 1842 Kensington
Daughter Mary Eliza Sussex Willey born 1843
Married Frederick William Hanks 1848
Census RG10/313/71/43
Had Henry Tucker Hanks 1858

2.
Sarah Anne Blades ...nothing needed.

3.
Julia Blades born 1825
With her parents in 1841 and 1851.
RG9/20/120/12 -she's started to lie about her age.
RG10/89/52/5 - she's stretching the truth even further.

Then there is the marriage of a Julia Blades in the March Qtr 1878 Camberwell 1d/827 to a William Jones Dickinson or a Sidney Harding.
There's no Julia Blades on the 1881 or 1891 Census.
Like your opinion......

4.
Thomas Charles Blades born 1827
I've tracked his family quite well through to 1901.

5.
Frederic James Blades born 1829
Not with his parents in 1841....nothing else known......
Was a witness at his sister Emma Eliza Blades marriage to Frederick Willaim Hanks in 1848.

6.
Walter Henry Blades c 1831
School in 1841; parents in 1851 & 1861
Then missing.......

7.
Frank Joseph Blades born 1835
With parents in 1841, 1851, & 1861.
Married in 1861 to Rose Anne Mac Hale in 1861.
There's the death of a Rose Blades aged 24 in the Sep Qtr 1868 Kensington Lambeth 1a/93
And Frank dies aged 33 in Dec Qtr 1868 in Lambeth.
Now children for this couple could be a mystery...... Frank Mac Hale Blades who married in 1896, father Frank, deceased.
Catherine Louisa Blades, aged 24, father Frank Mac Hale Blades deceased married in 1888
In 1871 Frank aged 7 is in an orphanage.
RG10/2550/63/5
So is Catherine Louisa....aged 7 and in an orphanage
RG10/2550/75/30
But Catherine Louisa Blades born Jun Qtr 1864 St Geo Han Sq 1a/247
Frank McH BLades born Jun Qtr 1866 Kingston 2a/213 ?
1881 Frank's an apprentice tailor in Lancashire
RG11/4132/90/15
1881 Catherine as Kate is visiting visiting with her Aunt Emma Eliza Hankes.
RG11/687/54/34

8.
Catherine Louisa Blades born 1837 died 1860

9.
Marion Emily Blades born 1841
Married John Priest in 1864.
He was listed with his parents in law in 1871.
Her death?
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 06:50 BST (UK): Another question....

Who is Emma Hanks, 7 year old grandaughter who is with her grandparents Joseph and Eliza in 1861?
RG9/362/138/19

Added: Emma Eliza Blades' daughter from her marriage with Frederick William Hanks.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 07:19 BST (UK): Just found Frank Blades and Rose Mac Hale's son Frank in 1871........
RG10/2550/63/5
He's in an orphange..... :'( :'( :'(

As is his twin sister, Catherine Louisa Blades... . :'( :'( :'(
RG10/2550/75/30
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Friday 02 October 09 07:56 BST (UK): Part 3 soon Dee ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Friday 02 October 09 08:50 BST (UK): I think the birth place of Emma Hanks is Somers Town, which is south of Camden Town in London. I do not know what district or parish this comes under though.

I shall do some searching and see if I can find out who she is. If she had siblings, they could well have been born in Somers Town as well.

Also notice (on the 1861 census) that Eliza Babb Blades' middle name is shown as being a B, strengthening my feelings that her middle name is Babb and not her surname.

Addendum: found her in 1871 and yes, she's born in Somers Town (but I did not need to use that as part of the search criteria)

RG10/313/71/43

That makes her mother Emma Eliza Blades, then?

Addendum 2: it seems in fact Emma Eliza Blades married someone with the surname Willey before marrying Frederick William Hanks.

Marriages Sep 1848

Hanks Frederick William Newington 4 382
WILLEY Emma Eliza Newington 4 382

Addendum 3: the marriage certificate confirms this

Frederick William Hanks married Emma Eliza Willey on 20 August 1848 at the Parish Church of St. Saviour Newington, Surrey.

Both are of full age.

Frederick William Hanks is a bachelor, working as a Draper, of St. George Hanover Square; his father is William Hanks, deceased
Emma Eliza Willey is a widow, of Beresford Street; her father is Joseph Blades, Gent.

Witnesses: Frederick James Blades and Thomas Charles Blades
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 09:09 BST (UK): Well, James.....that answers lots of questions ...well done and thankyou. :)

I'm pretty sure Somers Town comes under st Pancras.

Dee

Half my message disappeared when I posted! :o
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Friday 02 October 09 09:12 BST (UK): Not a problem.

Now we have to find out who Mr. Willey was.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 09:13 BST (UK): Quote from: James R. Yeowell on Friday 02 October 09 08:50 BST (UK)
Addendum 3: the marriage certificate confirms this

Frederick William Hanks married Emma Eliza Willey on 20 August 1848 at the Parish Church of St. Saviour Newington, Surrey.

Both are of full age.

Frederick William Hanks is a bachelor, working as a Draper, of St. George Hanover Square; his father is William Hanks, deceased
Emma Eliza Willey is a widow, of Beresford Street; her father is Joseph Blades, Gent.

Witnesses: Frederick James Blades and Thomas Charles Blades

So I should be able to find Frederick James somewhere in 1841......
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: jaywit on Friday 02 October 09 09:15 BST (UK): Dee Yes Somers Town is in St Pancras. The old St Pancras church is smack in the middle of it ( it's where the British Library is now, next to St Pancras railway station)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 09:17 BST (UK): Thanks Jaywit..... :)

It does get confusing sometimes remembering all the places in the districts.

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Friday 02 October 09 09:17 BST (UK): I am fairly sure it says Frederick James Blades. It says Frederick something Blades anyhow. I am sure you will take a look yourself.

Also, I found this:

Henry Tucker Hanks

Baptism    3 Apr 1858
Saint Pancras Parish Church    Camden

Father: Frederick William Hanks,
Mother: Emma Eliza Hanks

He was born 14 March 1858 and the father was of Clarendon Square (likely where Henry Tucker Hanks was born as well).

It's the only one I've been able to find.

Addendum:

Marriages Jun 1842

WILLEY    John Dyson         Kensington    3   183
BLADES    Emma Eliza        Kensington    3   183

So you had the right quarter and year, just the wrong husband.

Here's his christening:

JOHN DYSON WILLEY
Birth: 10 APR 1820
Christening: 28 JUN 1820     Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England

Parents:
   Father:    JOHN WILLEY (he was a Dyer of Cumberland Street)
   Mother:    MARY

There was also a daughter from this marriage:

Mary Eliza Sussex Willey

Baptism    17 May 1843
Saint George, Camberwell    Southwark

John Dyson Willey
Emma Eliza Willey

She was born 21 April 1843. Abode was Albany Road and John Dyson Willey was an (illegible -- it might say Colonel) Broker.

Addendum 2:

Frank Mac Hale Blades married Annie Maria Jones on 18 August 1895 at St. John at Hackney.
Catherine Louisa Blades married Robert Daniel Jones on 20 May 1888 at St. John of Jerusalem, South Hackney.

Annie Maria Jones and Robert Daniel Jones are brother and sister.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 10:31 BST (UK): Looks like I'm going to have lots of data entering to do again tomorrow. :)

Thanks again, James.

I've just checked FreeBMD Births.....and now have something else that needs solving.

Orphans Frank & Catherine were both given as 7 years old in 1871.
However FreeBMD has Catherine Louisa Blades born Jun Qtr 1864 St Geo Han Sq 1a/247 and Frank McH BLades born Jun Qtr 1866 Kingston 2a/213 ? ???

1881 sees Frank Blades aged 15 born London, Middlesex, an apprentice tailor in Lancashire.
Catharine....as Kate is a servant but visiting with her Aunt Emma Eliza Hankes.
RG11/687/54/34

Catherine is married as we know by 1891, but I can't find Frank.

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Friday 02 October 09 11:45 BST (UK): Morning everyone :)

wow ... a lot has been done ...well done James! :)

Dee ..perhaps you could amend your " summary" post so we can refer back and know hat still needs to be found ...especially if we go to part 3 :o :o

deb ..on the coffee ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 12:12 BST (UK): It's done......I think.....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,266204.255.html

:D :D :D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Friday 02 October 09 12:21 BST (UK): I know it's been a while...

But there's a burial for an Isabella Bauer, aged 32, on 27 December 1833 at St. Leonard, Heston.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 02 October 09 12:24 BST (UK): Deb posted that earlier, James.....so much, it's hard to remember everything! :)

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Friday 02 October 09 12:30 BST (UK): No worries. I have not gotten that far in the thread yet... I am just re-familiarising myself with the Bauers.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Friday 02 October 09 15:59 BST (UK): I thought this was worth mentioning:

Charles William Turl Osborne married 8 October 1863 at the Parish Church, St. George, Bloomsbury to Sarah Margaret Beverly.

Charles William Turl Osborne was a Widower, of full age, was a Perfumer of 5 Hart Street and was the son of Richard Osborne, a Postmaster.
Sarah Margaret Beverly was a Spinster, of full age, of 5 Hart Street and was the daughter of Robert Beverly, a Bricklayer

Witnesses: Hugh Bauer and Susan (illegible)

I am presuming Charles William Turl Osborne was the father (by his first wife Charlotte Jelly) of Charlotte Mary Osborne, wife of Hugh Bauer?
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 03 October 09 11:06 BST (UK): Yes James...you're spot on..... Charles William Turl Osborne was the father (by his first wife Charlotte Jelly) of Charlotte Mary Osborne, wife of Hugh Bauer.

I thought you might be interested to know that I've done some work on Emma Eliza Blades Hanks and her family today. Sadly I found Emma Eliza in the Battersea Workhouse in 1901. :(

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Saturday 03 October 09 12:19 BST (UK): I have found Charles William Turl Osborne's christening but the Turl part of his name is absent and I cannot see how he acquired it. Very odd.

I do not suppose you know if he is related to the landed gentry Osborne family? If he is, it is probably a difficult link to prove.

On my own research about branches of families in my own tree, I have come across yet another Osborne family, as well as at least two further Howard families. None of which seem linked to each other (which is not surprising really).
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 03 October 09 12:25 BST (UK): James, I haven't followed the Osborne family further back as they are not blood relatives. That is odd about the Turl...one would think it might be a family surname from along the line somewhere.

Oh....I now know of course where Emma Hanks, grandaughter, who was with Joseph and Eliza Babb Blades in 1871, fits......but there is a Fred Hankes, grandson , c 1875 Clapton who has me beat.
RG11/687/54/34
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Saturday 03 October 09 13:04 BST (UK): I haven't checked the census extract but it seems likely from first glance that he's a son of William Thomas Hawkes and Emma Hanks. They married on 12 October 1872 at St. Mark, Old Street, Shoreditch.

Therefore he's a Hawkes, not a Hanks.

Edit: here you go

Frederick George Hawkes

Baptism 22 Nov 1874 - Christ Church, Clapton
William Thomas Hawkes,
Emma Hawkes

There are other children from this marriage too.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 03 October 09 17:56 BST (UK): Hi everyone :)

I think I have Frederick James Blades in 1841!

he is in Christ's Hospital transcribed as Fredk. BLADER
1841
Christchurch Newgate Street, Middlesex
Christ's hospital
Ward no. 5
Fredk Blades 11 scholar Not born in county

deb :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 03 October 09 21:14 BST (UK): Hi again

Frederick James Blades is driving me up the pole!!!!!! ::)

I found this christening but have been unable to go any further ...no proof that it's 'our' FJB but thought I would post in case someone else can help.

Ernest William Blades
13 Nov 1879
parents; Frederick James Blades and Mary.
Saint Mary Magdalene, Peckham Southwark

Fred = a Brewer
address = 4 St Mary's Rd

cannot find this family at all! arrghhhhhhhh

deb :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 03 October 09 21:34 BST (UK): hi ...it's me again ;D

death:
Marion E Preist
bc 1842
died mar q 1866
age: 24 :'(
Lambeth
1d 312

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 03 October 09 21:56 BST (UK): Dee

I wonder if Marion died in childbirth ...she seems so young. There are also a few Priest children born and died in Lambeth in 1866 the year she died.

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 03 October 09 22:10 BST (UK): Thanks, James, for finding the Hanks/Hawkes combination.......no wonder Frederick was hard to find! I'll follow that up later today. :D

Oh, well done Deb, finding Frederick James Blades/Blader in 1841! :D :D

But he's still missing after the marriage in 1848 at which he was a witness... . ..until 1879!!!!! ??? :(

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 03 October 09 22:41 BST (UK): Hi Dee

urk!!!! FJB is driving me nuts... the child may not be his but I cannot even spot Ernest in 1881!!!!!

I found a Walter Blades on a passenger list to New York in 1865 ..he was 35 . There was a Jacob Blades aswell, aged 19 ..couldn't see the connection between walter and Jacob so assumed it was not him. Can't see any Walter on the 1870 USA census, although there are uite a few Blades b England in the US in 1870.

BTW ... I thought everyone would be able to spell "Priest" LOL ...see Marion's death

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 03 October 09 22:49 BST (UK): I've seen it spelt that way somewhere too, Deb! ;D

I just checked the Victorian records in case one of the boys followed Sarah Anne out there when she joined Francois. No luck though.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: James R. Yeowell on Sunday 04 October 09 01:58 BST (UK): Not a problem, Dee.

I have been tracking the family on my database, to make things easier. That is why I seem to be able to answer your queries so quickly.

I also thought it was amusing that a Hanks married a Hawkes, as both can be mis-transcribed as each others surname!

Here's some others to trace:

Richard Edwards married Sarah Anne Hanks on 9 July 1866 at St. James' Church, Shoreditch.
William Frederick Fairservice married Fanny Hanks on 14 October 1883 at St. Mark, Old Street, Shoreditch.
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Sunday 04 October 09 03:47 BST (UK): Hi Dee

Back again after being at a party …LOL

Re;
Frank Joseph Blades born 1835
With parents in 1841, 1851, & 1861.
Married in 1861 to Rose Anne Mac Hale in 1861.
There's the death of a Rose Blades aged 24 in the Sep Qtr 1868 Kensington Lambeth 1a/93
And Frank dies aged 33 in Dec Qtr 1868 in Lambeth.
Now children for this couple could be a mystery...... Frank Mac Hale Blades who married in 1896, father Frank, deceased.
Catherine Louisa Blades, aged 24, father Frank Mac Hale Blades deceased married in 1888
In 1871 Frank aged 7 is in an orphanage.
RG10/2550/63/5
So is Catherine Louisa....aged 7 and in an orphanage
RG10/2550/75/30
But Catherine Louisa Blades born Jun Qtr 1864 St Geo Han Sq 1a/247
Frank McH BLades born Jun Qtr 1866 Kingston 2a/213 ?
1881 Frank's an apprentice tailor in Lancashire
RG11/4132/90/15
1881 Catherine as Kate is visiting visiting with her Aunt Emma Eliza Hankes.
RG11/687/54

1901
86 Carlyle street
Frank Blades 35 tailor b Peckham
Annie M wife 29 b Shoreditch
Florence M 4 b Hackney
Constance 3 b Sussex, Brighton……………… b Mar 1898 Brighton, Sussex
??nfred dau 8 months b ditto…………. I think this is Winifred b Sept 1900 Brighton, Sussex

Florence Maud (transcribed Mand) Blades baptism
Florence as born Sept 27th 1896 and baptized Oct 18th 1896, All Saints, Clapton Park, Hackney
Father Frank McHal Blades tailor ………….. transcribed as Frank MABEL Blades
Mother Annie
Address; looks like Colenso Rd

still can't see him in 1891

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 04 October 09 04:20 BST (UK): Hi Deb. :D

That's what I've found about Frank jnr too. But 1891 has me absolutely stumped! Just where was he...or what was he transcribed as! ;D ;D ;D

We're fast running out of room.....I'll have to attract Barbara's attention, and I need to go back and update again.

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Sunday 04 October 09 04:33 BST (UK): Hi

okay yippeee have found some children for Robert Daniel and catherine Louisa(nee Blades) Jones ...although her name is spelt ith a "K" and not "C"

Kathleen Elizabeth Jones
born Aug 30th 1894
Baptism 23 Sep 1894 , all Saints, Clapton Park, Hackney
parents:
Robert Daniel Jones, Postman
Katharine Louisa Jones address: 52 Holly st, Dalston

Ethel Louise Jones
born Dec 8th 1896
Baptism 28 Mar 1897, same as above
parents:
Robert Daniel Jones,... now a waiter
Katherine Louise Jones
address ; 22 Colenso rd .... This is the same address as Florence Maud Jones as baptized ;D (see previous post)

Robert Lark Jones
Baptism 19 May 1889, all Saints , Clapton Park, Hackney
parents;
Robert Daniel Jones,
Catherine Louisa Jones
can't read address or occ ...too small

deb
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deb usa on Sunday 04 October 09 04:59 BST (UK): hi Dee

1891 Robert snr (postman), kate and Robert living in Hackney
RG12 198 43 10

errrrrrrrrrrrr where are they in 1901?

deb ..off to bed for me ...night! :)
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 26 October 09 02:56 GMT (UK): Finally folks I habve managed to purchase Louisa Isabella BAUER'S marriage certificate.

Yes....she married John SIMMONS on 13th June 1862 at Mitcham in Surrey. He was a Licensed Victualler living at Limehouse, Middlesex, and his father was Richard Simmons, gardener. She was the daughter of Joseph Bauer, cook....and guess what......they did indeed spell Bauer correctly for once. :D :D :D

Dee
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 26 October 09 07:02 GMT (UK): Good work Dee.............another small brick out of the wall. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Tephra on Monday 26 October 09 07:30 GMT (UK): We're on page 20 and as there's new information come in, I thought a Part 3 was in order. So here it is.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,415195.0.html

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Diane Heddon on Wednesday 11 August 10 12:44 BST (UK): Quote from: Tephra on Monday 05 November 07 09:58 GMT (UK)
OK, this is the continuation of Dee's Scavenger Hunt, I'll put a link on here for the old thread and a link to this one on the old thread .......... phew, had to think about that for a minute ........ ;D
Gee I am glad this is you and not me having to link this n that.. I am still finding my way around here, and I just realized today that even though my replies has been sitting on 26 messagaes etc i stumbled upon a reply that I had no idea was there, probably for ages!, so many boards that I found myself into.. that I forgot what n where I was supposed to be looking at! never mind hey.. I am a bit backward with coming forward as yet here... best wishes to you Di from oz

Here is the link to the old thread ........... ;D

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,263507.0.html

Good hunting.

Barbara
Title: Re: Dee's Scavenger Hunt Part 2 (Everybody welcome to join in)
Post by: Manitoba2021 on Wednesday 03 February 21 14:29 GMT (UK): Hi Dee,

Just joined and trying to figure out the system. Saw this thread doing a search for my Parkers. I think I can say that we share some surnames. Blade, Parker, Clark(e) all in the London area. Have lots of Parker info but less on Clarke and Blade....actually just starting to dig into Blade more this week.

Take care.

Brian (Canada)

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