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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: shazzi_b on Monday 12 November 07 21:38 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I have just managed to trace a long lost rellie who died in WW1 (with very kind help of the WW! board - thanks guys!)
I know that his girlfriend gave birth to a daughter whom he never saw as she was born after his death. as he wasnt married, would the daughter have been given his surname, or hers?
any opinions welcomed!
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The child should have been registered in the mother's maiden name.
If they weren't married the father's name should only be entered if the father was present -I know this wouldn't be possible in this case (but even then the child would be registered in the mother's maiden name -even though the father's name would be on registration)
Sometimes the child would be brought up (unofficially)using his/her father's name
Suz
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thanks for that.
Its what I expected (unfortunately) - I dont have any idea of the mothers surname!
have to keep digging!
thanks again
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Hope my but-in does not hinder !
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My father's birth was registered in WW1 era (1918).
Looking at his copy birth certificate, I see that his surname was not recorded.... no column for it !
Column 4 is for " Name and Surname of Father"
Column 5 is for " Name and Maiden Surname of Mother"
For the child, Column 2 is for " Name(if any) ".
My father's first name James, is recorded here with no surname.
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Looking at my birth cert, 1941, I see that ditto applies to me. Also to my grandfather's 1875.
( I cover a range of years in case the info recorded on registration, changed over the years ). I have a hunch that today children are registered with name and surname ??
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But as far as indexing of registrations goes, he would have to have been indexed under some surname.. Dixon in his case.
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To find the birth registration of a child whose surname is unknown would be very difficult, but maybe not impossible !
From the quarter ending Sept 1911, GRO birth indexes included both the child's father's surname and the mother's maiden surname.
Where the mother of the child was not married to the child's father, the birth registration index would include the mother's maiden name twice.
So ( assuming you have dtr's first name and an idea of where and when born/registered) get into those indexes !
Would the addresses of your WW1 relative and the girlfriend afford any additional clues as to the identity of the child ?
Michael Dixon
Newcastle
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thanks for that information Michael - there is sooooo much I dont know (and didnt realise it until I started this!)
The only information I have is that the mother of the child was called Julia Anne, had the baby after the father (joseph Henderson williams) died in March 1918 and the baby was called Mildred. Her mother (Julia Anne) later married Tommy Nevins (who died in Washington 1950) and later again died in Washington Village Holy Trinity (in 1960). i can only find a marriage of Thomas Nevins in 1915 to Ethel Lee, but my mother is definate that Josephs girlfrirend was called Julia Anne.
anything you can spot would be great - but I will keep on digging!
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shazzi,
What luck... an uncommon first name MILDRED.
Where was Mildred born ?
I have had a quick look at birth registrations for Mildreds in Northumberland (less than 50.. I've forgotten ) and Co Durham ( c90)... but could not see a suitable Mildred...
Over to you .
Michael
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Michael
Unfortunatley I dont know where Mildred was born - her father was from Gosforth and my mother remembers visiting Julia Anne in Washington village when she (my mother) was a child.
Dont have any more than that, Im afraid!
Sharon
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Shazzi I wonder if I'm picking this up wrongly.
Are you saying that Julie Ann - Mildred's mother married Thomas Nevins after 1918 - if so then her name can be matched with Nevins on the BMD surely.
Only a thought - apologies if I've read it incorrectly.
J.A.
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no - youre reading it correctly - its just that on BMD the only Thomas Nevins marriage I can find is 1915 - too early - and its to an Ethel Lee.
Im not sure exactly when she married Tommy - I suppose I could go through the original docs from 1918 onwards......... an idea, I suppose!
thanks - I'll let you know if I find it!
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Hi again shazzi
Thanks for your reply.
I've been doing my family tree for quite some time now and one thing I have learned is to go sideways with all my investigations. I know that this does not fit the time frame buuuuuut..... if you look at FreeBMD and put in Thomas Nevins and marriages it does come up with one intersting finding.
June Quarter 1906 Chester le Street
Thomas Nevins to
Perhaps ...
Julie Alice A. Hill
It's a thought.
Yours J.A.
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Theres a birth of a Mildred Hill Nevins, Dec qtr 1906, Chester-le-St., vol 10a, P618.
Alan.
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June Quarter 1906 Chester le Street
Thomas Nevins to
Perhaps ...
Julie Alice A. Hill
It's a thought.
Not perhaps - definitely!
Durham County Council registrar's site gives this:
Thomas Nevins m. Julia A. Hill, 1906.
Jennifer
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Chester le Street does include the Washington area.
J.A.
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Theres a short family tree on Ancestry for the Mildred Nevins b 1906.
Mildred Hill Nevins b. Co. Durham, 4 Nov 1906. Father - Thomas Nevins, mother - Julia Alice Ann Hill.
According to the tree, this Mildred married Stanley Inchliffe Brown, had kids, and died in Nottingham, 25 Oct 1966.
Alan.
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Shazzie
This is odd!
You are looking for a child named Mildred, born to someone named Julia Ann, who, at some time, married Thomas Nevins.
We have got a definite marriage in April/May/June 1906 between Julia A. Hill and Thomas Nevins, followed in November 1906 by the birth of Mildred Hill Nevins.
There is no other marriage of a Thomas Nevins to a Julia on the County Durham site (which has complete coverage). Does your mother have any idea where Julia married Thomas?
The marriage and birth are outside the time-frame you have given, but the coincidence of names is amazing!
Is your mother positive of all the information she's given?
Jennifer
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Shazzie
Any more feed-back on this topic?
Jennifer
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Hi Jen. Not that I know of. It looks as if Shazzi hasn't been back in as logged in since the end of November.
J.A.
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Hi Guys
In my absence you have really taken this topic on! Wow! Im really impressed!
I lost my broadband when I moved house at the end of Nov, but Im eventually up and running again!
I'll check the info with my mother - she seemed pretty certain though! She remembers visiting them in Washington Village when she was small, but it was a while ago!
I'll get back to you. And thanks again!
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This is getting odder and odder.
My mother remembers Mildred being older than my grandmother (born 1920) and she married twice (first husband Dent, second name not known) and died in Nottingham. She had one child, Vera to the first husband, then moved in as housekeeper with the second husband, eventually marrying him and have a daughter (Suzanne) with him. When she died, one daughter took the other to live with her.
The co-incidence is really odd. My mother said the whole link with Joseph Williams was 'hush hush' and not mentioned. If Mildred wasnt his child, I cant see why they would have visited??
Curiouser and curiouser
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Hi Shazzi welcome back on board. It would have driven me mad not having access to the internet for sooo long.
I've re-read the postings to refresh my memory regarding this subject.
Do you think that Mildred was Joseph H Willams daughter, despite Julie Ann marrying Thomas Nevins, and the relationship between Joseph and Julie Ann (hence the hush hush) was rekindled during the war years?
Yours J.A.
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Hi Northerngirl
Ive eventually sorted it all out. I mailed the person on Ancestry who had posted the details and she got back to me. It turns out that Mildred cannot have been his daughter as she was born in 1906 and he in 1897 - but after going back a bit further it looks like their parents were cousins.
It just shows how family stories get blown out of proportion!
thanks for all the help!
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Hi Shazzi glad to hear you've got a result on the issue - the adventure of trying to work it out was good though.
J.A.
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Hi Shazzi
I know this is an old post but I'm wondering whether you have any information on Stanley Inchcliffe Brown as I am his granddaughter.
My Mam, Julia Alice Ann, is Stanley's daughter with Mildred. Stanley died when my Mam was very young and her mother when she was 14 so she doesn't know a lot about her dads side of the family. We know she has half sisters and brothers and that Stanley was married to a Rachel Williams but apart from that we're stuck.
Do you or any one in your family know anything that could help?
Thanks
Lisa