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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: NickGen on Thursday 15 November 07 19:41 GMT (UK)
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I've been looking up Young, Millett and related families in the Frampton Cotterell/Earthcott area during the 1600's. I would be interested to hear from anyone interested in these families and their connections (e.g., Sturge, Blanch, Smart, Bullock, Shepherd, Alway, Greenway). I am particularly interested to know more about Christopher Young of Tockington Park Farm (1672), an early Quaker who was married to Elizabeth (nee Millett).
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Hi Nic
I just found your interest in the Tockington families of Young etc, all of which are on my family tree. I have been researching them for years and have loads of info - there may be some details you do not have or vice versa so please get in touch
Regards
Hester
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Dear Hester,
Many thanks for your message and for getting in touch.
I have been looking into these families for about twenty years though in snatches rather than in a consistent manner. I went on a family tree drafted in the late 1800's which appears to have been largely accurate, though patchy in its early stages, which referred to a Christopher and Hannah Young, Hannah being the daughter of a William Millett of Frampton Cotterell. They were said to live at Tockington Park Farm. Christopher was said to have been born in about 1640 and to hail from Brinkworth, Wilts.
My efforts rather differ from this line, mainly in that it seems Christopher's wife was Elizabeth, daughter of Richard Millett of FC. Elizabeth appears to have died in 1684, Christopher in 1695 (they were Quakers at the time of their deaths). Richard seems to have died in 1645. I have Richard's family back several generations to a widow, Joan Millett, who died in about 1551. She lived at Frampton Cotterell.
I find Christopher Young's origin has been a difficult one to crack but there is a man of that name, married to an Elizabeth, with children Jacob and Hannah born just before and after the Restoration. This family lived at Castle Combe, Wilts, and this is the strongest potential lead that I have found.
I'd be delighted to hear from you. I descend from Christopher and Elizabeth via Jacob who married Susannah Blanch. Subsequents generations married into Smart, Bullock, Shepherd, Alway, Greenway and Hook families. There are several links into the Sturge family.
Thank you, again!
Best wishes,
Nick.
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Hi Nick
Good to hear from you - a prompt reply! Sorry it took 2 years since your post for me to find you! We have been researching the same family for at least the last 20 years. My great x 6 grandfather was Jacob Young, who was buried 3 Mar 1716. But I have his wife as Elizabeth Blanch, daughter of John and Susannah. I have John Blanch's Inventory. Having taken up this branch of the family again after a break, I have just found that the Glos Record office has Jacob's will and have just requested a copy of it. There are so many Quaker records to check in Bristol. Glos and even Herefordshire.
I have details of Christopher in the 1671 Hearth Tax at Tockington Park. I presume you have read the Elizabeth Sturge book which first pointed me to Brinkworth as his original place of birth. She says Christopher was married to a Hannah Millett, daughter of William of Frampton Cotterell. I am very interested in your Castle Combe lead - not one I have tracked down yet. Christopher seems to have had a daughter called Hannah who married Francis Boy - again, I am awaiting his Will. Lots to do!
Will let you know when these docs arrive. Do let me know about the Castle Combe line
Regards
Hester
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Hi Hester,
My apologies - I have been in Brussels on work for most of the week.
Many thanks for your message. You are quite right about the Elizabeth Blanch point - it occurred to me on Monday that I had swapped mother and daughter names. My apologies for the slip!
Like you, I descend from Jacob and Elizabeth. In my case, their son Jacob (1690-1757) is my ancestor. This Jacob married twice and I come from Mary Smart, Jacob's second wife. Sarah Peaseley, the first wife, died in 1718. My line is:
1. Christopher and Elizabeth (Millett)
2. Jacob and Elizabeth (Blanch)
3. Jacob and Mary (Smart)
4. Edward and Elizabeth (Bullock)
5. Samuel and Mary (Shepherd)
6. Thomas and Mary (Alway)
7. Henry and Betsy (Greenway)
8. Thomas and Winifred (Hook)
9. Richard and Mary (Herbert) - my parents.
It looks like we have 1 and 2 in common - 3 as well?
The Elizabeth Sturge information comes from the tree drawn up by Wm O Greenway in 1892 from information supplied by Francis Cotterell and from the memory of Esther Greenway. This seems to have been a major family project. The Quaker records and various wills show Generation 1 above, and take the Millett line right back to the late 1400's, early 1500's.
I'll try to find out more about the Castle Combe lead idc.
The 1892 tree shows Christopher and Elizabeth having tree children: Christopher (marrying Hester - actually, Alice - Boye of Titherington), Hester (marrying Francis Boye) and Jacob (bucking the Boye trend and marrying Elizabeth Blanch). I have found two other children who are not mentioned on the 1892 tree: Jeremiah (d. 1675) and John(living in 1690).
Christopher and Alice had many notable descendants: Thomas Young (wave theory of light, Rosetta Stone, etc), William Weston Young, John Zachary Young, Sturges, Lloyds (as in the bank) and more.
There is cousin marriage between the descendants of Christopher and Alice and Jacob and Elizabeth, leading inter alia to the Sturge founders of the surveyors King Sturge and others such as the painter Joseph Edward Southall. These are also linked to the Clarks (as per the Francis Boye-Hannah Young marriage).
And so on!
According to the 1892 tree, Hannah married Francis Boy of Titherington in 1686 and the tree states that the descendant families of this marriage include the Boyes, Cookseys, Clarks, Gaynor and others (of Filton). I have a copy of Francis's will - the hand in which it is written is not as flowing as the usual lawye's cleark's script - it's almost a bit stubby. I'm sure you'll enjoy seeing it - I found it very endearing.
The Clarks are the shoe manufacturers.
The Milletts form a sort of invisible cousinage link to a lot of these families through Millett women marrying into other families - following the earlier marriage of Christopher and Elizabeth.
I look forward to hearing more from you and your line of descent!
With best wishes,
Nick.
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Hi Nick
Good to hear from you - a lot of information to digest!
We share the first FOUR lines in your list, which is pretty good! My Gt x 4 grandparents are Edward and Elizabeth (nee Bullock). From there I come from their son John, who is the next youngest from your Samuel. My John married a Jane (surname so far untraced), and at this point they ceased to be Quakers, so far as I can tell. And that is where the money and land fell away too! In two generations they were farm labourers and Jane, who lived to be 99 yrs old, was living with her son who is listed as a pauper.
So, from John and Jane, I then go to their 10th child James with his first wife Ann from Chedzoy in Somerset; then their youngest child Frederick and his wife Eliza Anne, and their youngest child (of 11), Winifred. She was my grandmother.
It looks as though you have found the records I am at present working my way through, and am awaiting 5 wills of Young, Millett and Boy from the Gloucester Record Office, plus a request for the Southall connection in Hereford. The wills are great for their detail, and to get a feel of the wealth and social standing of the family at that time. I was also very touched to find the death of the first-born son of our Jacob and Sarah Peasely who died "of the bite of a mad dog". I think the other researchers in the record office must have heard my sharp intake of breath!
I am not familiar with the family tree you have used from 1892 - is it in a published work?
I have a mention of a John Young of "Ircott" (ie Earthcott) a Yeoman, who was imprisoned in 1685 for being at a Quaker meeting and refusing the oath of Allegiance. Could he be our Christopher's brother?
I am not sure if we will ever get any further back with Christopher Young. We only have Elizabeth Sturge's sayso that he came from Brinkworth, and the Brinkworth parish records do not help to find his marriage or baptism. I did look at Castle Combe, but I am concerned there is a death of a Jacob Young in the year following the baptism which you mentioned.
I will have a look at all the information you sent, and when I have seen the wills I have ordered I will get in touch again. Have you followed up the Southalls of Leominster? They seem to have been a prominent Quaker family, and I am sure you have Samuel Southall's marriage to Edward's sister Elizabeth
I will be in touch
Best wishes
Hester
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Hi Hester,
How interesting! Samuel 'married out' in 1793 when he married Mary Shepherd. John, his brother, married Jane Date (according to the 1892 tree). John, from my search, was born in 1762. The tree states that he died in 1814 (two years before Samuel). The tree gives one child for John and Jane: Edward who married a Bethin Moxham. Edward and Bethin appear to have had a daughter, Bethin, who married a Geo. James. That's all it gives - perhaps not too surprising as the tree then focuses on Samuel's various descendants.
John and Samuel's sister, Mary, kept the Quaker link going with her marrage to Jacob Sturge. Other siblings, at least Jacob Young, the eldest of Edward and Elizabeth, married out of the Society of Friends.
The mad dog's bite was a bit of a horror for me too. I read about that in November 1989, just after I found the Quaker tie-in and looked at the SoF records. How awful - I had a sharp intake of breath!
The John you mention in 1685 is, I think, a brother of 'our' Jacob who married Elizabeth Blanch.
I'm very interested that you looked at Castle Combe. I have had very little time to look at this but wonder if there is a lead there - it looks better than the blank against Brinkworth even though the Youngs there were Quakers. Mysterious stuff.
The 1892 tree isn't a published document to my knowledge - just one that has done the rounds among the inter-related descendants of Samuel and Mary Young. I have various scribbled on versions of it - would you like a copy? I have started entering details on ancestry.co.uk and this might be more useful to you. But I'm happy to oblige a cousin!
The Southalls are an interesting lot - I lke especially Joseph Edward Southall (1861-1944), a descendant of Christopher and Elizabeth (Millett) through both their sons Christopher and Jacob. Do look up JES. If you are in Birmingham, you might want to see his paintings - I'd love to when make time.
Hester, are we fifth cousins? A quick late evening calculation tells me we are.
More soon, I hope. Do please let me know more about your Youngs. Btw, I know at least one Young cousin at work and one in a closely-connected institution and they are now good friends. They descend from Christopher and Alice Boy - quite a staggering thought!
Best wishes,
Nick.
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Hi Nick
Thanks you for all the information. I have a few days off next week and will use the Ancestry site at the record office to check out what you have put on that.
In the meantime, you asked for my Young line so here goes - feel free to add anything you have or query if you disagree!
Gt x 7 Grandfather Christopher Young = Elizabeth Millett
No birth details, or marriage.
Christopher buried 18 Feb 1695, Elizabeth buried 6 Oct 1684
They had ?5 children:
1. Jeremiah, buried 6 Jan 1675
2. Elizabeth, mar John Amms 22 Nov 1678
3. Jacob (my Gt x 6) = Elizabeth Blanch mar 21 Feb 1681. Jacob buried 3 Mar 1716 Left Will
4. Christopher = Alis Boy Mar 13 Jan 1682. Alis buried 29 Sept 1687
5. Hannah = Francis Boy mar 16 Mar 1686
Children of Jacob I :
1. Elizabeth bap 6 Sept 1682, bur 18 April 1712
2. Hannah bap 2 Ap 1685 = Joseph Lodge mar 4 Feb 1721
3. Mary bap 24 Dec 1686/7 bur 19 Sept 1689
4. Hester bap 13 June 1689 bur 26 Nov 1689
5. Jacob bap 12 Dec 1690 mar 1) Sarah Peasley 20 Feb 1714 - she was bur 6 Feb 1718. 2) mar Mary Smart on 8 Jan 1719/20 she was bur 8/9 Oct 1762. Jacob buried 6 Feb 1718 Inventory left.
6. John bap 11 Jan 1694/5
7. Mary bap 26 Feb 1701 bur 6 Mar 1716
Children of Jacob II:
From first marriage:
1. Jacob bap 2 Feb 1715, buried 8 Ap 1723
2. Christopher bap 8 Feb 1717 mar Mary ? bur 19 July 17176. Will left
From second marriage
1. Edward bap 26 Dec 1721/2 mar Elizabeth Bullock 28 Feb 1751, Edward bur 13 July 1782, Elizabeth bur 28 May 1784
2. John bap 3/4Mar 1724
3. Mary bap 15 Jan 1725/6 bur 17 Ap 1731
4. Elizabeth bap 16 Nov 1729 = Samuel Southall 20 June 1754
5. Jacob bap 19 June 1727= Rachel Martin 22 May 1753, Left Will
Children of Edward:
1. Jacob bap 7 Nov 1752
2. Edward bap 9 Jan 1755 bur 1 Feb 1833
3. Mary bap 26 July 1757 = Joseph Sturge 17 June 1778
4. Samuel bap 7 Oct 1759 mar Mary Shepherd ? 1793
5. John - my Gt x 3 Grandfather - bap 15 Jan 1762 = Jane?? date unknown. Jane lived to be 99 yrs old, died 24 Nov 1864
6. Christopher bap 11 Oct 1773
7 (twin) Elizabeth
8 Joseph bap 23 Ap 1767
Children of John:
1. Ann = George?
2. Maria b? 1792
3. John b ? 1797
4. Edward b? 1799 = Bethin Moxham
5. William bap 13 Sept 1801 Westbury on Trym
6. Maria bap 19 June 1803
7. George bap 14 July 1805 Westbury = Eleanor
8. Abraham bap 16 Aug 1807 Westbury = Elizabeth
9. John bap 6 Aug 1809 Westbury = Elizabeth
10. James my gt x 2 grandfather bap 8 Nov 1812 Westbury = 1) Ann? of Chedzoy, died 1857 (mother of all his children and 2) Elizab Brown, b Bristol
11. Thomas bap 30 July 1815 Henbury
Children of James:
1. Alfred bap 15 Sept 1833 Westbury = Eliza Mooney, widow
2. John bap ?1836 = Sarah Prent
3. George bap 24 Dec 1837 died 1840
4. Harriett b 1839 Henbury = henry Paul
5. George b 1842 Henbury = Annie Knollson
6. William b 1843 infant death
7. Henry bap 28 June 1846 = Emma Hobbs
8. Ellen bap 21 Jan 1849
9. Frederick James my gt grandfather bap 30 Nov 1851 Henbury = Eliza Annie Brown b Bristol
Children of Frederick
1. Elizabeth Fanny b 1869 Westbury = Albert Powell
2. Laura Louise b 1870 Hallen, Henbury = Albert Lanham
3. Florence b 1873 Lawrence Weston bap 26 jan 1873 Henbury = Alfred Strawbridge
4. Mary Jane bap 27 Dec 1874 = Fred Beecham
5. Lily Gertrude bap 31 Dec 1876 Henbury = William Withers
6. Arthur Hamilton bap 29 Dec 1878 = Jessica Mitten
7. Ada Minnie /Edith? b 1881/2 = Albert Humphrey
8. Martha bap 25 Jan 1883 Henbury = William Williams
9. Catherine Amelia bap 26 July 1885 = Claud Boughton
10. Miriam born 26 Jan 1888 = William Jackson
11 Winifred Maud, my grandmother born 14 Jan 1890 = Alfred Charles Norton born 1 Dec 1889
Well I hope that helps you fill in some gaps on the family tree!!
I will get back to you when I have looked at the wills which have now arrived. By the way, I have obtained some prints of Southall's pictures. He may be a very distant ancestor but I am claiming him!! I was in the Birmingham Art Gallery a few weeks ago, so I will try to go again to check out his work there too.
Regards
Hester
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I have recently started researching the Young family for a friend. I have managed to get back to Samuel Young of Alveston who was born 1796. The name Sturge figures as a second christian name for a lot of the people I have found. I am now stuck, but see from your postings that the Youngs may have been Quakers and would not show on the IGI. Any help would be greatly appreciated. IFreida.
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Hi freida
Yes the Youngs were Quakers, which is why you won't find many of their records on the IGI. I THINK he may be a descendant of Samuel Young, brother of my Gt x 3 Grandfather Jacob Young. There is another person who posts on this site who will probably reply to you and I think he is a closer relative. I can supply you with lots of info for the earlier generations, as can he! I will look out and see if he replies. We have a number of connections with the Sturge family, also Quaker. All the families come from the Alveston/Olveston/Tockington area of S Glos. The Quakers have left a wonderful set of records - baptism, marriages, burial records, wills, leases etc, in the Bristol and Gloucester record office, including the Youngs and the families into which they married, so there is a lot to work from.
Regards
Hester
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Dear Hester,
Many thanks for your prompt reply. How did the Sturges connect to the Youngs. The Youngs must have thought a lot of them for subsequent generations to have Sturge included in their names. I work in Gloucester so I will see if I can get to the records office to look up the Quaker records.
Freida
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Me again, I was just re-reading your and Nick's postings, and he says that he has posted info on Ancestry.co.uk. I am subscribed to that site, but cannot find any of his postings, can you point me in the right direction.
Thanks
Freda
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Hi Freda
Well. sadly I am tied into a different subscription to another site, and despite my local record office saying you can use Ancestry in their searchroom, access proved very limited and I was not allowed to use that part of Ancestry! So I am not able to help there. Can you tell me anything more about your Samuel - baptism/ marriage - I have several generations further back to Christopher Young, an early Quaker, died 1695. He lived at Tockington Park, Olveston. He married an Elizabeth Millett.
Christopher's grandson also Christopher married twice - his first wife was a Mary Sturge. His granddaughter Mary married Joseph Sturge. There is also the marriage of Christopher I 's Gt x 3 granddaughter Mary married another Joseph Sturge. Let me know what info and dates you would like.
I have obtained a number of wills and records from the Glos record office in the last few weeks which have filled in a lot of gaps.
Good luck
Hester
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Well, you can tell I am not very busy at work this afternoon, being able to reply to you instantly!
I have only been doing the research on the Youngs for a couple of days. I am doing it for my husband's first cousin, once removed's wife, whew! She has Sturge as part of her name, but was a Young before marriage.
I have only accessed the census records so far and got to the Samuel Young b Alveston abt 1797 married to an Ann Roach. Have found an entry in a "Jackson" family tree on Ancestry, indicating he was born at Earthcott, Alveston and died at Rook Farm, Oldbury.
My lady comes down from his son Henry.
This is all getting extremely interesting.
Freda
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Hello Hester,
I have been looking at your Young descent as listed by you. Did all of these family live in Earthcott/Olveston? I am now of the opinion that my Samuel b 1797 is the son of Samuel b 1759. Did this Samuel have four sons, Samuel 1797, William 1800, Jacob 1803 and Thomas 1808? Am I getting warm?
Are any of these mentioned in a will. I have looked at wills on line, but cannot see any will that seems likely.
any help, greatly appreciated.
Freda
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Dear Hester and Freida,
Apologies - I have been away on work and life has been carrying on.
I have entered family tree information on ancestry.co.uk under Herbert-Young. Freida, if you look under this you should find it. I hope so!
I think I have updated it to include information from the Young tree drawn up in 1892. This shows that Samuel Young, s/o Samuel and Mary, nee Shepherd, married Ann Roach. I think this was a first marriage.
Henry is listed as a son of Samuel and Ann, along with Samuel, William, Charles, John, Tom, Robert, Mary and Joseph (who married Elizabeth Blanch).
I think Henry was a farmer of Alveston and married Elizabeth Wetmore Jones. It looks like he died in 1882. The tree gives him as at Oldbury.
Henry was a first cousin to my great-grandfather, another Henry (1836-1886).
I hope this is useful!
Best wishes,
Nick.
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Dear Nick,
Thanks for the information which confirms what I thought, it is always nice to know one is on the right track.
I am probably being thick, but I still cannot find the information on ancestry.co.uk. Is Herbert-Young the surname or is the person Herbert Young? I have put both in the search family tree boxes, but nothing relevant seems to come up.
Regards
Freida
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Dear Freida,
Many thanks for your message. The tree is actually called Herbert-Young Family Tree (my parents' surnames combined) and the name Richard Young, my late father, might be a link into it for you.
Let me know whether or not this helps you.
Best wishes,
Nick.
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GOT IT! Thanks. There seems not to be, or at least I cannot find it, a way of searching for a title of a tree. I put in Richard Young and came up with about 1500 entries, but as you said Richard was your late father, I narrowed it down by year.
I have printed it out and will go through it at my leisure. Thanks again.
Freida
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Great stuff. Yes, my father died in 1989 - if you have him, you should have ther right tree!
Happy reading. I'll try to add more information as I go along in the next couple of weeks.
Merry Christmas!
Nick.
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Thanks again Nick for your help.
You too have a good Christmas
Kind regards
Frieda
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Hi All,
I can see that the original poster asked for connections between Milletts and Shepherd families.
I am probably barking up the wrong tree but I have my GGM Hannah Shepherd b 1865 married to William Thomas Millett b 1862 in Liverpool.
Not sure if they are connected as I'm guessing that my Milletts came from Lancashire.
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I am currently looking up my ancestors the youngs of thornbury who were also quakers I am a descendant of jacob Young one of his children moved out to wales and had a son charles Young then his descendants moved to the north east of england my great great grandfather was moses young and his son was Charles it is a huge family but I would love to hear about Gloucestershire and were the Youngs farmers?? I had been told one was a grocer regards Nicola