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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: woodlea on Friday 16 November 07 15:13 GMT (UK)
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Could anyone please help me to find the family of my Great Grandmother. Name Sarah Turner b1847c Dumfires & married James Bryson 4 Dec. 1868 Dumfries this is all I know about her. Any help to guide me in the right direction.
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Her parents were John Turner, coachman, and Mary Turner. No MS given for her mother.
Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk will probably have more information.
Have you tried looking for her on the free view 1851 census -
http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
Thanks for you information. Yes I did try Free view 1851 census but came up with a different answer. Found a Sarah Turner age 3 father John Turner Spalding Arms Inn, wife Sarah. Will try & find your John & Mary. ::)
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Did the Spalding Arms one have John as a coachman?
Interested in the Spalding Arms - I have a line from KKD who are Spaldings :)
Gadget
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The Spalding Arms had a John Turner age 25 Innkeeper. Wife Sarah age 25, Robina 18, Mary 5, Sarah 3 & John 1. Hope this is of some help.
woodlea :-*
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I see that it was the one in Balmaclellan. It's still there by the bridge but called something else now and I can't remember ???
Do you have a date and place of death? I've been looking but can't find a good match. It might give other info on her mother.
Gadget
PS - i also found one as a grandaughter - will go and check again!
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Could she possibly be the one in Dunscore on the 1861
McCubbington, Dunscore
822 ED 4 Page 4
William Crosbie, hd, 50, farmer of 111 acres, b. Dunscore
Sarah Turner, sister, 37, housekeeper, b. Dunscore
Mary Jane Turner, niece, 15, housemaid, b. Tynron
Sarah Turner, niece, 12, b. Dunscore
John Turner, nephew, 10, b. Tynron
Marion Thomson, serv, 22, general servant, b, Kirkgunzeon
Looks very like the Spalding Arms family
:-\ :-\ :-\
Gadget
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Getting more confusing by the minute. Could be any one of them. Have just started to look for Sarah Turner, so far have a lot of her husbands side of the family (Bryson) May have to try Scotlands people in the end. Have not tried a pay to view site yet being a pensioner have to watch the pennies. Made a few mistakes with the certificates it can get very expensive.
woodlea
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I'll PM you about the marriage cert :)
Do you have any rough idea of her death and where?
Gadget (also a pensioner amongst other things :D )
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Do not know her date of death. Found a Sarah Bryson on FreeBMD March qt.1918 Wigton & James Bryson Dec. qt.1919 Carlisle. Could this be them?
woodlea
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It might be because they don't appear on the Scottish site :(
A pity that they moved across the border, it would have given another check on her parentage . English death certs don't give that info.
Gadget
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hi gadget pal,
sorry for intruding, trying to help
james and sarah had 2 children born in scotland
dinah...1/9/1869
joseph...4/3/1871
i have just located them on the 1871 census for cumberland, will post details in a minute.
Joe
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We're trying to find Sarah's parents, Joe. Can you check the 1851 as well, in case we've missed any, please :-\
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hi pal,
thought that if i found her first then i could work back, also thought the naming pattern may come into play.
1871 census- port carlise, wigton, cumberland
james...age 24...labourer
sarah...age 24
dinah...age 2
joseph...age 1 month
Joe
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James parents were Robert and Dina .
Both James and Sarah gave Gretna addresses on their marriage cert.
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hi pal,
i can see this ....
1851 census- gasstown, dumfries
william mcroe...age 61...tailor
janet...age 60
thomas...age 11...grandson
john...age 3...grandson
sarah turner...age 6...grand-daughter
glad to see the parents names as she did have a son robert on the 1881 census...
1881 census- old binnicle, wigtown
james...age 34...fisherman
sarah...age 34
dinah...age 11
joseph...age 10
robert...age 8
agnes...age 7
sarah...age 5
georgina...age 3
james...age 2
elizabeth...age 1
Joe
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That was the 1851 that I saw, Joe but wasn't sure about :-\
Sarah's parents from the marriage cert are John and Mary but no mention of a Mary among her children. She could have got it wrong on the marriage cert. but very difficult to tell. So far, I can't find a baptism record for her at all.
Gadget
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hi pal,
1851 census- leehouses, graitney
robert bryson...age 40...farm labourer
dinah...age 45
agnes...age 15
joseph...age 14
ann...age 9
dinah...age 6
lowther...age 2
1851 census- leehouses, graitney
lowther berrill...age 54...fisherman
robert...brother...age 44...fisherman
agnes...sister...age 58...baker
mary...sister...age 48...housekeeper
ann...sister...age 45...baker
jane...nephew...age 25...baker
james bryson...age 4...grandson
george graham...age 2...grandson
1861 census- hollingbush, graitney
robert...age 50...farm labourer...born hoddam
dinah...age 55...born gretna
agnes...age 26
ann...age 19
dinah...age 16
james...age 14
georgina...8
Joe
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Yep - that's definitely the Brysons :)
But where are the Turners ???
John as a coachman in 1868 might have been the Innkeeper of 1851. Have you found any possibles for after 1851. I'll go check for deaths for him.
Gadget
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So far there is nothing that jumps out at me as a death for John. Neither parents were recorded as deceased on the cert.
Just seen that a witness was a George Berrill and the other was Williamina McRoe.
Now those names I recognise from that 1851 census as a granddaughter.
1851 census- gasstown, dumfries
william mcroe...age 61...tailor
janet...age 60
thomas...age 11...grandson
john...age 3...grandson
sarah turner...age 6...grand-daughter
That one is worth following Joe :)
1851 census- leehouses, graitney
lowther berrill...age 54...fisherman
robert...brother...age 44...fisherman
agnes...sister...age 58...baker
mary...sister...age 48...housekeeper
ann...sister...age 45...baker
jane...nephew...age 25...baker
james bryson...age 4...grandson
george graham...age 2...grandson
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Just had a review.
The Berrill is from James Bryson's side and the McRoe is from Sarah's side :)
Glad you came on, Joe. It made me go back to the cert for any clues :)
Gadget
Will go and investigate the McRoes :)
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hi pal,
same person spelt different...
1841 census- gasstown village
william mcnoe...age 50...tailor
janet...age 50
elizabeth...age 18
john...age 10
thomas...age 1
jean gourly...age 23
janet gourly...age 2
need to go fot the fitba....
catch up later..
Joe
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Only baptism so far that I can find with father William is a John McNoe, s. of William McNoe and Janet Shand - 21 July 1830, Dumfries
Trying desperately to think of other variations of the surname.
I think I'll join you at the footie!
Gadget
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Think I may have found something on Wilhilmena/Williamina McNoe (witness) though on the IGI -
Dumfries 17 August 1873 Janet Sarah Turner McNoe. Mother Wilhelmina McNoe :o
Many of the McNoes seem to have come from New Abbey, Kirkcudbrighshire including William , the grandfather.
Gadget
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Wilhelmina also had John Smith McNoe (born 1871). They are living with granny, Janet, in 1871, but there's no sign of Janet (1873). There's a daughter, Agnes, born c. 1820 in Gibraltar. Janet (c. 1790 in Burntisland) is a soldier's widow, so might explain why there's little baptisms in Scotland for their children.
hume24
Full entry:
Address: Annan Rd, Dumfries
Janet McNoe, f, head, 80, soldier's widow, Burntisland, Fifeshire
Agnes ", f, dau., 51, ag labourer, Gibraltar
Wilhelmina ", f, g-dau., 19, general serv, St Mary's, Dumfriesshire
Thomas ", m, g-son, 11, scholar, St Mary's, Dumfriesshire (son of Agnes)
John S Stundell, m, g-son, 2 months, -, St Mary's, Dumfriesshire
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Hmmmmmmmm an interesting family ::)
But who was Sarah's mother - she must have been a McNoe/McRoe :-\
Janet (grandmother) was born Burntisland, Fife ::)
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I think I'm a bit confusing with them! ;D Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm seeing it like this.
William McNoe/McRoe (circa 1790 in New Abbey, Dumfries) marries Janet Shand (circa 1790 also in Burntisland, Fife) on 5th June 1815 in Edinburgh. Her father is given as Peter Shand. They have a daughter (?), Mary, who marries John Turner, a coachman. They then have a daughter, Sarah who marries James Bryson.
:-\ Think I've got it.
hume24
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Yep that's possibly it as far as the info goes but we can't find Mary or John Turner or deaths ::) ::) ::)
On Sarah's marriage cert, they appear to be alive :-\
Gadget
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hi all,
whit aboot this?
1851 census- cargens house, kirkcudbright
mary mcnoe...age 23...servant for john bertwhestle, proprietor, could john have joined her their?
maybe they were never married!!!!
Joe
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That's what I was thinking, Joe :)
Interesting though that Wilhelmina used Turner as one of her daughter's names.
Just found on IGI a possible birth for Janet Shand (death cert gave no info) :
3rd Aug 1789, Burntisland. Parents Peter Shand and Nelly Masterson
Gadget
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Hi Joe and Hume
It might be worth doing some searching on young John Turner, Sarah's younger brother, going by the 1851. Born circa 1848, Dunscore
I've had a look but can't find a bapt for him so far.
Gadget
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Hi all
Thanks to everyone for their input. While iv'e been away you have nearly resolved which family Sarah Turner belongs to.
All I can add is that she died in Wigton workhouse & was buried 26 March 1918. Will continue to delve a little deeper into her family.
Regards to all
woodlea
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Hi Gadget,
Had a quick look for John in 1861, but can't see any possibilities. :-\ Nor can I see any deaths on SP.
I also tried looking for possible marriages/deaths for Mary McNoe, but nothing appearing there either.
hume24
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I'm sure I saw a death that I discounted as too young when I was looking for John Turner, senior. I'll go back and have a look.
Gadget
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Thee's one in Dalry in 1913, aged 64. He might have died before 1855 though or moved anywhere in Scotland or gone abroad or moved to Cumbria :-\
Gadget
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Have sent a few e-mails to people with McNoe & Shand in their families via Genes Reunited awaiting replies. Perhaps we way get another lead.
Woodlea
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Re: James Bryson and Sarah Turner's son Robert Bryson married Mary Ward in 1915 had a son John Huntington Bryson (my grandfather) where does the name Huntington originate from as most of the names in this family seem to be passed down from relatives, does anyone know. ???
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Re: James Bryson and Sarah Turner's son Robert Bryson married Mary Ward in 1915 had a son John Huntington Bryson (my grandfather) where does the name Huntington originate from as most of the names in this family seem to be passed down from relatives, does anyone know. ???
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Try www.Scotlandspeople.gov.uk
or depending when they were born - www.familysearch.org
Good Luck
Porty Girl.