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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: SC on Sunday 18 November 07 22:44 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help? I am looking for two deaths, probably between 1841 and 1851, for a shoemaker Alexander Farish and his wife Isabella who left behind three girls, Mary (22) Georgina (11) & Margaret (8) living together on Church St, Annan in 1851
Thanks
SC
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Hello SC
The following details are from a memorial which is/was in the churchyard at Cummertrees:-
Mary Charters died at Bent 19th January 1797 age 67 years.
Alexander Shepherd, her son, died at Brigham near Cockermouth 19th January 1809 age 38 years.
George Rule her son who died at Limekilns 25th July 1848 age 74 years.
Alexander Farish shoe-maker Cummertrees died 17th January 1843 age 39 years.
Isabella Rule his wife who died in Annan 16th January 1851 age 44 years.
William Rule their infant son. Erected by George Rule.
Regards
Reiver
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Hi Reiver
Thank you so very much for the MI information on Alexander & Isabella although now you seem to have given me quite a puzzle to sort out trying to figure out exactly where Mary Charters, Alexander Shepherd and George Rule all fit in!! Isabella I believe was born in Cummertrees and is the daughter of William Rule & Christy Henry. Presumably George is her uncle.
Do you or anyone know if there are any other Rule memorials in the Cummertree churchyard that might throw some light on this. Isabella, (b. 12 Oct 1806) had nine siblings and all were born in Cummertrees
Margaret, 9 Feb 1809
James Henry, 10 May 1811
George, 18 Feb 1813
Thomas, 14 April 1816
Ralph Henry, 27 May 1818
John, 16 Sept 1820
Robert William, 30 Nov 1822
Andrew Murray, 16 Oct 1825
Mary Ann, 12 Jan 1827
Isabella is my husband's GGgm
SC
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Hello SC
My interest is or was in Farish hence I had some transcriptions related to that name.
IF you wanted to specifically follwo up on Rule burials then it may be worth obtaining the published transcription of the MIs at Cummertrees (& Trailtrow).
See http://www.dgfhs.org.uk/dgfhs/pubs/pubs-ndx.htm
The primary way to wotk back though would be via the ScotlandsPeople website
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
There may be other Rootschatters who have access to the full MI transcriptions done in the 1960s and held at a number of Libraries in Sumfriesshire (Dumfries, Annan and lockerbie spring to mind).
Regards
Reiver
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Hi Reiver
Thanks for your quick reply. The Dumfries & Galloway FHS website looks very useful and I'll certainly be ordering the pub you suggest.
Am aware of Scotland's People and that was my source for all the Rule births
You mention your interest in the Farishes, and I was wondering if you have come across Alexander, the shoemaker, before.
There is only one possible Dumfries birth/chr on SP, 28 Apr 1807, in Graitney or Gretna but none of his parent's names Robert or Elizabeth are handed down. Do you think this is my man? He married Isabella Rule on Feb 12th, 1828.
Regards
SC
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Hello SC
I'm afraid Alexander is not known to me.
I did try SP but found an Aleaxander Rule baptised in Torthorwald to a Thomas Rule and <?> Collins (Her name from the image). That was in 1808. Born Dec 4 baptised Dec 8,
There is a smudge which makes it difficutt to read the mother's name. Colliins/Collin may be whare she lived. I notice that the ICI has submitted entriy for the baptism of an Alexander Rule to a Thomas Rule and Mary Dobie. The dates match, the Parish matches, it is Alexander and Thomas bur I cannot make Mary Dobie out of the smudge.
Looked for marriageon SP of Thomas Rule and <?> Collins but only found one for Thomas Rule and Mary Hope in Dumfriesshire
Did not find a Gretna baptism for Alexander nor parents Robert and/or Elizabeth.
More puzzles I'm afraid. An enlargement of the smudge may help :)
Regards
Reiver
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Hi Reiver
Thanks for trying to find my Alexander. Will p.m. you on this.
A puzzle it is for sure.
SC
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Hi SC
I note your interest in the surname Farish which is an interest I too share.
There were some Farish family in the Meilkle Culloch area of Dumfries - which I think is over towards Dalbeatie. I think a man called Farish has actually posted a reply regarding this. My Farish connection were in the mid 1880's and the family emigrated to Ohio America - Clark county. I can't recall at the moment the details of the Farish connection. I wonder if you put the surname Farish into the search (posts/threads) facility to see if anyone has an interest would be of any help.
J.A.
P.S what I should have added was that my Mr Farish married a master shoemaker's daughter.
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Hi Northerngirl
Thanks for your post. I am now leaning to the conclusion that the Alexander Farish born 1803 & christened in Gretna in 1807 is my GGGF who married Isabella Rule in 1828. Their daughter Margaret (b 1842) who married a sea captain John William Duff of Maryport is my GGM. One of his other daughters, Christina, married a Walter Little of Middlebie, Dumfries and she and her family emigrated to Canada in 1880, first settling in Flos township, Ontario and then moving to Teeswater, Ontario in around 1905
I still have many unknowns. There is a marriage on SP between an Alexander Farish and a Margaret Coulthard in Annan on Dec 23, 1824 that I presume this is just an earlier marriage for my Alexander but it could be a namesake
I cannot find a marriage between Robert Farish & Elizabeth Nelson (Alexander's parents) anywhere in Scotland or England.
I have no idea if Alexander had any siblings.
Does anyone have access to an early census that might help
Thanks
SC
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I came acros this thread by chance when searching for my direct ancestor (GGGG grandfather) Alexander Shepherd. His gravestone is (or was) in Brigham cemetery near Cockermouth and from the inscription I know that he died in Brigham in 1809. From his age at death he was born in about 1771. I have been unable to trace Alexander's ancestry until now. From this thread I see that his mother was Mary Charters and that Alexander probably came from Scotland. Using this information I have found from the LDS site that Alexander was born in 1769 in Dalton, Dumfries. His mother was born Mary Charters but was married to John Shepherd at the time that Alexander was born. Presumably Alexander moved across the Solway as a young man because he married Mary Vickers in Cockermouth in 1794. The main remaining mystery is why George Rule is described as her son. Could there have beeen a mistake in transcribing the original inscription? A George Rule was born in Annan in 1775 which would make him the same age as this George. His mother was Agnes Welch. The inscription would then be explained if Agnes's name was originally on the monument preceding George's but had worn away by the time it was transcribed. Is this possible? Any help from contributors would be gratefully received.
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Hi John
Very interested to hear that you are related to Alexander Shepherd as the Mary Charters/Alexander Shepherd connection to my Farishes has always been a big mystery, and perhaps together we can work it out. Alexander Farish married an Isabella Rule who I believe to be the daughter of William Rule and Christina Henry and I assumed that the George Rule mentioned on the grave to be her uncle, although the only sibling I have found to date for William is a John (who married a Margaret Lister interred in an adjacent grave)
You mention finding a Geo Rule with mother Agnes Welch in 1775 in Annan which matches the death age but there is also one in 1765 with the same parents listed. Did one die or is there a mistake?
I have seen the grave and there is no way there is a line missing, however the inscription was done on two seperate occasions.
Do you have any further information on George or his family?
Regards, SC
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Hi SC
Thanks for responding. I am afraid that I have no more information about George Rule or the Farish family. In fact, finding out about the Cummertrees inscription was the first indication that I had that they were connected with Alexander Shepherd at all. There seems little doubt that this is the same Alexander Shepherd as my direct ancestor. His gravestone is, or was, in Brigham cemetery. Fortunately the inscriptions were trancribed in 1878 and published originally by Henry Thomas Wake. The complete collection is available from parishchest.com in PDF format. Alexander's gravestone is inscribed:
"In Memory of Alexander Shepherd who died the 19th of January 1809, Aged 38 Years. Also of Mary his Wife who died the 28th day of January, 1850 Aged 84 Years. Also of George his Son, who died April 11th 1809; Aged 15 Years. Also Alexander their Son who died June 6th, 1862, Aged 57 Years. Isabella, Wife of Alexander
Shepherd died May 2nd 1835, aged 32 Years"
This leaves little doubt that this is the same Alexander Shepherd who is commemorated in Cummertrees. Tracing the descent from Alexander to me is fairly straightforward. Alexander's grandson John Shepherd moved to Warrington in Lancashire in the 1840's and I am his gg grandson.
The connection with George Rule and Alexander Farish is unclear to me. Given that my theory about a worn gravestone is wrong the only possibility which would explain the inscription seems to be that George Rule was Mary Charters's stepson. That is that Alexander's father and George's mother both died and that Mary Charters/Shepherd re-married George's father William Rule. This is pure speculation. I can find no evidence to support it at all. It is not easy for me to search original records since I now live in Australia but I can find nothing in the internet sources that I know about
Best Regards
John Shepherd
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Hi John
I am fully in agreement with you that your Alexander Shepherd is the same one who is commemorated in Cummertrees. You say Alexander Shepherd was your 4xgt grandfather. Alexander Farish was my 2xgt grandfather so obviously we are distantly related and it would appear that this George Rule is the common link. Somehow we have to find it!
There is some family information that you might be interested in so I will contact you by personal message.
SC
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Came across this thread today, I have for sometime been trying to find details of my G/G/grandmothers family who were Farish's and came from Annan. Her name was Esther her father I believe was William and mother was Esther. They and family in 1811 lived in Burgh South Side. Just wondered as you are researching Farish's whether you have come across this family.
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Hi yeldhammer
Very sorry but I have not come across any Esther's and have no more information on the Farish's other than those already mentioned on the thread
SC
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Hi SC,
I was researching a 1905 postcard I have in my collection and Google found your old request for information about Tom Holland from Wigan.
The card I have dates from 1905 and is signed:-
From Mr & Mrs Tom Holland, Glenroy, Wigan 1905.
I know this is quite a bit later than the Tom Holland you are looking for but possibly it's the same family ?
Kind regards,
Andy
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Hi Andy
I don't know how to link back to my other thread but really this should go on the Lancashire Board
Unfortunately the Thomas Holland I was researching died within a very short while of his marriage so I have not considered researching any further as he was such a brief connection and there were no children
If you need info on your Holland family, maybe you could start a thread on the Lancashire board
SC
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Hi SC,
Thanks for your prompt reply.
I'm not researching the Holland family as such - I collect items associated with Wigan and always Google the details whenever I buy something new.
Kind regards,
Andy
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Hello SC,
I recently came across some of your posts here. I am descended from Robert FARISH/Elisabeth LITTLE of Dumfriesshire through their son William who emigrated to Canada and then the USA. I noticed you had a different surname for Elisabeth. Her maiden name was passed down to me through family documents. I thought I would offer this information to you in case you think it might be helpful.
Respectfully,
Jason Mrochek
Hi Reiver
Thanks for your quick reply. The Dumfries & Galloway FHS website looks very useful and I'll certainly be ordering the pub you suggest.
Am aware of Scotland's People and that was my source for all the Rule births
You mention your interest in the Farishes, and I was wondering if you have come across Alexander, the shoemaker, before.
There is only one possible Dumfries birth/chr on SP, 28 Apr 1807, in Graitney or Gretna but none of his parent's names Robert or Elizabeth are handed down. Do you think this is my man? He married Isabella Rule on Feb 12th, 1828.
Regards
SC