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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: brianph on Thursday 29 November 07 11:38 GMT (UK)
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I know that my great grandfather was adopted within the family by his uncle and aunt.
His year of birth is recorded in the censuses. I am unable however to find a birth record for him.
I have sent for several birth certificates but none of them is the right one. I subsequently do not know who his birth parents were. Can anyone suggest how I might find them?
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Hello Brian and a warm welcome to Rootschat
You don't mention any dates (other than the 19th century) but you may know that pre-1927 there was no formal process of adoption. Children were simply taken in to a family and often (but not always) kept their birth surname rather than taking on the surname of the adoptive parents, if different.
Without more information on the detail, all I can suggest for now is that you narrow down the possibilities for the parents by identifying the siblings of the adoptive parents (if you're sure they were originially aunt & uncle to the boy) and find any who died young or had any other reason (such as serious illness) to give him up.
Is the boy shown in the censuses with the same surname as his adoptive parents, or a different surname?
Anna
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Another point, depending on the age at which he was "adopted", is that he might have been baptised as the child of his birth parents - it might be worth looking for a baptism record, unless you know that he was adopted at birth.
Anna
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His year of birth is recorded in the censuses. I am unable however to find a birth record for him.
See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,270557.msg1547601.html#msg1547601
Stan
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Thanks for the help. My great grandfather was Thomas John Phillips b 1874 In the 1881 census his birthplace was given as Llanelly In the folowing two censuses it was given as Aberdare where the adoptive parents lived. I have already explored the siblings of the adoptive father and 1874 births in Llanelly and got nowhere. I am at the moment trying to establish the maiden name of the adoptive mother to try that side of the family. I am having some difficulty in finding a matching marriage for them in BMD at the appropriate time. It maybe as you suggest that the couple either didn't bother to register their marriage or were not even married. If I find out the maiden name I could then try the adoptive mother's family.
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Did Thomas John marry?
If so his marriage cert should give his father's name -or be blank if he was illegit.
I suppose you have checked this birth out???
Thomas John Phillips
mar qtr 1874
Llanelly
11a 778
Who is he living with on the census?
Suz
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I have a copy of the birth cert it is not him.
He did marry and the certificate which I have gives the adoptive father as his father
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Any chance that his mother could have had him when she was single? Maybe look for a birth under the mother's maiden name. Just a thought.
Cheers
Anne
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I have checked these birth certs
Thomas John Phillips 1873 Oct-Nov-Dec Merthyr Tydfil Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
11a 464
Thomas John Phillips 1874 Jan-Feb-Mar Llanelly (To 1974) Carmarthenshire, Glamorgan
11a 778
Thomas John Phillips 1874 Jul-Aug-Sep Pontypridd Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
11a 384
Thomas John Phillips 1875 Apr-May-Jun Merthyr Tydfil Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
11a 536
Thomas John Phillips 1875 Oct-Nov-Dec Merthyr Tydfil Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
11a 481
None of them match
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His adoptive mother was 45 in 1874 so it is unlikely she was his mother
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brianph,
What were his adoptive parents' names? I want to look at the family in the 1881 census and see if any ideas come to mind.
Regards,
Josephine
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His adoptive mother was 45 in 1874 so it is unlikely she was his mother
You can't rule out the possibility she was his mother -my grandmother was 18 when she had her first child and 47 when she had her last (my father) (and grandfather was 59 ! )
Suz
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1881 census lists him as a nephew
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The 'adoptive' parents may not have actually been his aunt and uncle. Perhaps he was the son (legitimate or otherwise) of a more distant relative.
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Who are the adoptive parents?
Are thyThomas and Sarah Parry???
Suz
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They were not the Parrys.
I am waiting for a birth cert of one of the natural children in the family to establish the mother's maiden name. I can then proceed from there
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Could you give details of the 1881 census where he is listed as nephew ?
We may be of more help if we know who his aunt/uncle , adoptive parents were?
Suz
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brianph,
If you don't want to give any more details and you don't want to answer any more questions, you can add the word "COMPLETED" to the title of this thread. The administrator will then move this to the completed threads section.
Regards,
Josephine
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Sorry wrong year. It was on the 1891 census that Thomas John Phillips aged 15 is listed as a nephew. He is living with Williams Phillips b 1828 and his wife Martha b 1828. The source reference is RG12 4446 Folio 13 Page 21. However he is listed on both the 1881 and 1901 censuses as a son!
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Thanks for the help. My great grandfather was Thomas John Phillips b 1874 In the 1881 census his birthplace was given as Llanelly In the folowing two censuses it was given as Aberdare where the adoptive parents lived.
Have you got your information a little mixed up
If I am following the correct Thomas John
1881 p.o.b.Carm (i.e. Carmarthan)
1891 Cam Llanelly (i.e. Carmarthan Llanelly)
1901 Carm Llanelly (i.e. Carmarthen Llanelly)
His p.o.b. is not given as Aberdare Glam on any census??????
Why do you think he is related to Martha's side of the family??
His surname is Phillips - and William was b. Carmarthan
However Martha was b. Pembroke
Also on 1891 where he is listed as nephew, his age is given as 17 not 15
If you don't know who his parent/s were, why have you been able to discount the birth certs you have sent for????
On the mar qtr 1874 Llanelly birth cert you have sent for, who are the parents??????
We may be able to connect them to William?
Possibly they died????
As on the census he is consistent with the county he was born in, I think Carmarthan is more likely to be his p.o.b.
Suz
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You are right about his birth place it was Llanelly
I tried looking for likely matches in BMD for Thomas John Phillips b 1874/5 in Llanelly and the only likely match I found was for 23 Feb 1874. The birth parents were given as Henry Phillips and Eleanor Phillips formerly Davies who lived at 34 Dolau Llanelly I the tried to relate this information to children or thought it unlikely to be him as I could not find any connection to either the Phillips or Edwards families
Incidentally the birth places for William is given as follows
1861 nk Pembrokeshire
1871 Lanriolo Pembrokeshire
1881 Carmarthen
1891 Llanfallteg Carmarthenshire
Llanfallteg is right on the border between Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire with parts of the parish in each county.
Martha was born in Solva Pembrokeshire. In 1861 they both lived in Herbranston with their family
Thomas John's age in 1891 was given as 16 on his individual record. This ties up with his age at his marriage in 1900
Where do I go from here?
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I think you can definately discount the birth reg -parents Henry and Eleanor, as I think this is them in 1881
new Dock Rd
Llanelly
Henry Phillips head 35 Engine driver at works carm
Eleanor wife 35 Carm
Ellen J daughter 14 Carm
THOMAS J son 7 Carm
Ammie M daughter 3 Lanelly
Eugenie M 8mths Lanelly
RG11 5373 33 5
back to the drawing board!!!!!
Suz