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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: kt4u on Friday 30 November 07 22:19 GMT (UK)

Title: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Friday 30 November 07 22:19 GMT (UK)
Hello all you clever people,
I am asking a question that may not have an answer but you never know..... I have a chap living in Norfolk (OWEN JONES)  born in Ruthin, Wales. People have kindly sent me listings from the Parish Register of Ruthin showing OWEN's parents (RICHARD AND GRACE JONES) plus OWEN's brothers and sisters.
OWEN baptised November 1805.
I have a copy of Owen's wedding transcript (1831) in Norfolk - no mention of any parents.
My question is "How do I know I have the correct parents?" Also can you tell me if there is a place named RUABON or is it an area?
I really want this to be his parents as RICHARD JONES was a Reverend and a very interesting man.
OWEN's siblings:
Elinor
Richard
John
William
Maria
Thomas
Margaret
Hannah
Richard
Robert
Grace.
Many thanks for reading this
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 30 November 07 22:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Katy  :)

There is a place called Ruabon:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Ruabon/index.html

Many of my ancestors lived there!

What is the link with your Ruthin Joneses?

Gadget
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Friday 30 November 07 23:05 GMT (UK)
Hello Gadget
wow! That was a quick reply - thank you.
I found this on the IGI 
"Birth:  09 SEP 1809   Cefn Mawr, Ruabon, Denbigh, Wales
 Parents:
  Father:  Richard Jones  Family
  Mother:  Mary"     


On the 1861 census OWEN is age 54 so that would be approx 1807 for his birth. I am hoping he is not from Cefn Mawr. Is it near Ruabon?
Thank you
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 30 November 07 23:09 GMT (UK)
It is very close to Ruabon,  Katy. Part of the parish in those days.

If you click on the map in the link that I gave you, you will see where Cefn Mawr is.

It's not very close to Ruthin at all, though  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 30 November 07 23:11 GMT (UK)
The online IGI is not very good at all for our area. The Bishop of St Asaph would not allow the LDS to have access to the parish records although the Bishops Transcripts are available for you to search on film at the FHS centres.

Gadget  :)
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Friday 30 November 07 23:16 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much, Gadget.

I off to bed now and will check the links tomorrow.

Once again, many thanks
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 01 December 07 14:59 GMT (UK)
Ive found Owen in 1851 aged 54 working at London City Infirmary. Wife Lydia, He is definately born Ruthin.
In 1861 he is a chemist and druggist.
Obviously a cut above the miners and Ag labs from North Wales. Nowt wrong with that, mine was a leadminer from Ruthin. ;D

In Pigots directory 1828/9 Ruthin . There is a Rev Jones, Archdeacon, Llanbedr along with† three more Revs , but they are named and none is a Richard.
Also a John Jones is a druggist at Well St. Similar occupation.

Also found there are items at Denbs records office that might shed some light.
Hopefully for you it could have info on his children.

ACHYDDIAETH JONES
Disgrifiad: Family tree and newspaper article concerning family of Revd Richard Jones, Ruthin.
Dyddiad: 1795 1943   Dates.
Rhif Cyf: DRO NTD/38  Ref No.

 
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 01 December 07 16:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Katy

Information about the  records that wilcoxin has mentioned can be obtained via this link:

http://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en-gb/DNAP-6ZQKTQ

They are very helpful - either phone or by mail - and will photcopy and post out any documents that you might want to obtain.

Gadget
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Saturday 01 December 07 16:47 GMT (UK)
Hello Wilcoxon
Well, many, many thanks for your very †informative reply - how can I repay you? (Do you need any copies from TNA, Kew?)
Fancy him being in London - I think I am the sort of researcher who covers all the options but I suppose I get stuck on one track of looking in Norfolk and never thought of looking elsewhere- well done you.

In 1851, not wishing to doubt you, is OWEN's age 54? As I have him in 1861 as 54. †Is there an occupation listed for him? I shall be researching the London City Infirmary now! He also called himself an apothecary - I have contacted the society of apothecaries but they have no trace of him - good try though!

Funnily enough but I don't have one ag.lab on my tree yet! LOL! (Back to 1500 on my Cox side!) As you say - nothing wrong with being a leadminer - †OWen's †gggrand-children (my mum, aunty and uncle) were taken into foster care under the auspices of the Shoreditch Poor Law Guardians - how fortunes change.
Yes, I have that info from Denbigh Record Office. The tree is of RICHARD JONES's descendants - but not all of his children are on there - least of all my OWEN. This Richard Jones (newspaper artice) a fellow of Jesus College, Oxford, was rector of Ruthin, then 1806 Rectory of LLANYCHAN - died 1811 where he is buried.
He wrote the DEONG LIAD (4 gospels in Welsh)! also:
"Religious Unity or a warning against schism" written in Welsh - whilst vicar of Ruthin.

One of Richard's sons (JOHN)was Rector of LLANYCHAN 1814, then LLANGYNHAFAL 1831-37, then LLANRHAIADR and promoted to a canon of Bangor Cathedral.

I really would like this man to be one of my ancestors!

Once again many thanks for all of this info - keep it coming! No, I didn't mean that!
best wishes
Katy

Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Saturday 01 December 07 16:56 GMT (UK)
Ah! Thank you, Gadget.
A contact on  Genes Reunited gave me the link - last week- and as you say the record office are very helpful and efficient and I received the info this week. LOL! Imagine my surprise when I realised that I had already received a copy of this a couple of years ago. I had done a small amount of investigating then but had actually put it to one side and forgoitten about it - hoping something would turn up to help me. Low and behold you and Wilcoxon have helped me hugely.
Many thanks,
(Do you need any copies from the TNA, Kew? Documents online are 3.50 to download or 20p per copy in person)
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 01 December 07 17:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your very kind offer, Katy  :)

Now if you were to say the Nat Lib at Aberystwyth (I presume you've searched their online records?), I would send you a long list  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Saturday 01 December 07 17:16 GMT (UK)
Hello Gadget

"Now if you were to say the Nat Lib at Aberystwyth (I presume you've searched their online records?)"

No I haven't searched there - but I will zoom over there straightaway!

Once again many thanks
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 01 December 07 17:27 GMT (UK)
Here we go †:D
1851 and Owen is 45. He is living at 5 Pottery Street, borough of Tower Hamlets, Bethnal Green, and the Ecclesiastical parish is St Matthew.
All the children were born at Sedgeford Norfolk, and the youngest is 3, so you can work out that they moved after c 1847, as lomg as Lydia didn`t go home for the births that is.

WOW †:D :D Got him in 1841 aged 30. He is an apothacary and Lydia is a Straw Bonmaker ? Straw hats maybe †???
 Living in the hundred of Smithdon, parish of Thornham, Norfolk.
Great to have him with a good occupation.
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 01 December 07 17:28 GMT (UK)
It can be a bit difficult to navigate. the best thing is to go to:

http://isys.llgc.org.uk/

Gadget  :)
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Saturday 01 December 07 18:11 GMT (UK)
Hello Gadget and Wilcoxon
just going to dish up my dinner so this is a quickie to say once again many many thanks you are two gems and I am not sure what I have done to deserve such great help.
best wishes
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 02 December 07 10:34 GMT (UK)
I thought another `track` would be to find the will of Rev Richard Jones, and† searched A2A , but nothing really seems to match for him, I thought there could have been the chance that he named his children in the will.

It`s strange Owen didn`t name his parents, and b :o :o :o :o :o y annoying.

Maybe `Jones the tablets` in Ruthin might be worth investigating.
Also† in Pigots directory 1829 is a Robert Jones. Home apothecery and secretary in Denbigh. Very close to Ruthin.† ???

Found  these  on A2A, could be of help. You can download this for £3.50.

 Will of Robert Jones, Surgeon of Denbigh , Denbighshire 23 October 1843 PROB 11/1987

Will of John Jones, Druggist of Mold , Flintshire 05 February 1847 PROB 11/2050


 
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 02 December 07 11:35 GMT (UK)
1871
Owen Jones 65 Chemist and druggist
Lydia 61.
Living at Docking Road, Sedgeford.
Children have all gone.


1881
Owen Jones 75† Chemist and druggist.
Lydia. 71
 Living at East Green , Docking, Norfolk

It seems that Owen was in the same area for a long time except for his stint in London and I suppose he died here , I can`t find either of them in 1891. Surely there would be a report of his death in a local paper, maybe someone in that area could look for you, Have you his date of death.
Obits can be a wealth of information.
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Sunday 02 December 07 16:28 GMT (UK)
Thank you once again Wilcoxon and Gadget,
"Jones the Tablets" does look a good contender - plus those wills do look very interesting.

Thank you for the census info and the directory info.

No, I did not have his dod but I just zoomed over to freembd and there he is dod Dec 1886, age 81, Docking, Nfk.

I have also delved into the Nat. Lib and found a biogrpahy about Rev Richard Jones which mentions the four gospels. It says he wrote a commentary not the actual gospels.

Once again -  many thanks and you have given me lots more areas for my research.

Best wishes
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 02 December 07 18:51 GMT (UK)
Not really a solution, but it seems that Robert Jones was born 1807 died 1843. So he couldn`t be Owens father.

Hope this link works, it is† a list of his books and things at the Wellcome Museum which is in London.

I`ve tried it and it looks like you will have to `search again` and then enter Robert Jones in the top line. ???.

http://archives.wellcome.ac.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=overview.tcl&dsqSearch=((text)='robert%20jones')
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Monday 03 December 07 16:02 GMT (UK)
Hello dear mentor!
I've looked at the description of the records - thank you - very interesting!

Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 03 December 07 16:15 GMT (UK)
 I`ve sent a Private message.
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: hjem on Thursday 27 March 08 00:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Katy

I cant find the other note I sent you but I am also researching Owen Jones born Denbigh about 1806 moved to Norfolk and married Lydia Clark on or about 31.1.1831.  Did you come to a decision about his parents? Their 1st son was John (Lydias fathers name) and the 2nd son was Richard Owen, so quite likely to have been his fathers name.  My Mum also thought that the 4th son Robert Samuel Jones (baptised April 7th 1840) was a church minister and possibly in Diss.  Does that confuse the issue?????  We found quite a few Jones gravestones in the Parish Church in Thornham.  We also have only the first 3 children being born in Sedgeford and the others in Thornham.  My 2nd cousin (also researching Jones) said Owen & Lydia are buried in Docking, just a few miles from Sedgefoed and Thornham.  We think O & L had 7 boys and then 1 girl who died in childbirth - we can find no record of her.
mary
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 27 March 08 09:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Mary  :)

Welcome to Rootschat   :D

It looks as if you and Katy do share a common ancestor. I'm glad that you decided to put this information here. As I said in my PM, it's more likely that you will get a wider audience, information and advice on the thread  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: hjem on Friday 28 March 08 16:23 GMT (UK)
Thanks Gadget, it certainly looks like we are looking for the same chap, I'll be interested to see if Katy replies how she fits in to the family.  We 'found' some other 2nd cousins purely by accident when we went to see my Granny's home and they went a couple of weeks later and the chap who lives there put us in touch with each other.  I do find family history research interesting - until we came to a blank looking for an Owen Jones from Wales!!!!  Still looks like we might be able to get further on with that now.

Thanks again Gadget.

Mary
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: hjem on Saturday 29 March 08 21:27 GMT (UK)
Also looking for Margaret Eastop born c1851 in Glasgow Lanarks, married Owen Henry Jones, son of Owen Jones born c1805, spent most of her married life in Belvedere Kent.  Trying to find her pre marriage and parents.
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 29 March 08 21:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Mary  :)

it would be best if you put that request on the Lanarkshire board:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,102.0.html

or Kent:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,231.0.html

Good Luck

Gadget
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: hjem on Saturday 29 March 08 21:34 GMT (UK)
Will try that, didn't know there was one - only came across this by 'accident' and thought it was 'country wide'.  As you may have guessed computing isn't one of my better subjects.  Going to look for Lanarks now.

Thanks again :)
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 30 March 08 11:20 BST (UK)
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

 This is a good site, but not free  - you pay for credits. There are not many Eastops in the census so might be worth a look. :)
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 30 March 08 11:24 BST (UK)
Query already on Lanarkshire board where Mary is getting help:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,295526.0.html

Gadget  :)
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: hjem on Sunday 30 March 08 22:09 BST (UK)
Thanks you 2, I think you are really great helping others (like me) - you're brilliant. :)
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Wednesday 02 April 08 22:06 BST (UK)
Hello Hjem
Yes, it does look as though we are tracing the same Owen  :)!  Wow! this is fun. Do you think we are related? My mum Violet Jones - daughter of Arthur William Jones) was brought up in a childrens home and never met her father or knew much about him - that was partly what prompted my interest in family history (mum's family contrasts slightly with my dad's - he was one of 15 - I needed a family tree program just to keep track of current relatives!) Back to the subject in hand - if you have any knowledge of Arthur William (did he become a millionaire LOL!!) I would love to know!
I know he was in the Navy in WW1 -a stoker, that he was 5' 3", dark-haired and fair skinned with a mole on his chin - that was  from his navy record at Kew! When he came out of the navy he became a silversmith. Whilst in the Navy he kept absconding! I am looking further into that.....
I hope we do tie up somewhere in our trees...can't wait to hear ...best wishes..
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Wednesday 02 April 08 22:10 BST (UK)
Hello Hjem, here is what I have on Owen - so far ...

Owen JONES, b. 1807 in Ruthin, Denbigh, Wales.  He married Lydia CLARK, married 31-JAN-1831 in King's Lynn, Nfk, b. 1807 in NFK.
I.   Joseph William JONES, b. 1838 in NFK.  He married Mary Ann Cross, married 25-Dec-1858 in Burnham Westgate, Nfk, b. 1842 in Burnham Westgate, Nfk, (daughter of william Cross and Sophia Chaplin).
   A.   Arthur Owen JONES, b. 9 May 1867 in 26 Craven Street.  He married Sophia Clifton, b. ABT 1866 in Bethnal Green, (daughter of William Clifton and Sophia Unknown).
      1.   Sophia Jones, b. 1889 in Shoreditch.
      2.   Robert Jones, b. 1892 in Shoreditch.
      3.   Arthur William Jones, b. 21 Aug 1895 in Haggerston, London.  He married Margery Blight, b. 6 Dec 1897 in Plymouth, (daughter of William Blight and Adelaide Mary Pollard (2)) d. 31 Jan 1946 in Surbiton, Surrey.
         a.   Margery Eileen Sophia Jones, b. 8 Feb 1918 in City Road, Shoreditch.  She married Harry Street, b. 1910.
   KATYíS MUM      b.   Violet Elsie Jones, b. 11 Jan 1923 in Hoxton, London.  She married Leonard Arthur Cox, b. 18 Aug 1920 in Teddington, (son of Sidney Arthur Cox and Alice Helena Paice) d. 13 Jun 1968 in Feltham, Middlesex.
         c.   Arthur William Jones, b. 25 Apr 1925 in Shoreditch, London.  He married Sheila Mary Boodie, b. 18 Sep 1926 in Burton-on-Trent.
   B.   Joseph Jones, b. 1869 in Mdx.
   C.   Leonard JONES, b. 1860 in NFK.
   D.   Daughter JONES, b. 1856 in NFK.
II.   John JONES, b. 1833 in NFK.
III.   Richard Owen JONES, b. 1835 in Sedgeford, Nfk.  He married Emma Harcourt (?), married 24-Dec-1848 in Birmingham, b. 1831.
   A.   Grace Jones, b. 1867 in Shoreditch.
   B.   Richard O. H. Jones, b. 1869 in Dalston, Mdx.  He married Adelaide Amelia Andrew, married 1893 in Islington (district).
      1.   James Jones, b. 1896.
      2.   John Jones, b. 1895.
      3.   Mary A Jones, b. 1897.
IV.   Robert JONES, b. 1840.  He married Emily ?, b. 1838 in Reading, Berks.
V.   Ebenezer JONES, b. 1844 in NFK.  He married Sophia, b. 1845 in Stibbard, Nfk.
VI.   Owen H Jones, b. 1848 in Thornham, Nfk.  He married Margaret.
   A.   Margaret E Jones, b. 1871 in Hackney.
 


 
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Wednesday 02 April 08 22:18 BST (UK)

Hello again Hjem,
We 'found' some other 2nd cousins purely by accident when we went to see my Granny's home and they went a coupleenbigh Record Officeof weeks later and the chap who lives there put us in touch with each other. That must have been thrilling. How does your granny connect with Owen?
I contacted the Denbighshire Records Office   and have a copy of the Pedigree of a Rev Richard Jones of Ruthin - don't get too excited - it is very scrappy looking - as though done on the back of an envelope! and only covers a couple of generations. I also have a newspaper article about Rev Richard Jones -very interesting readi ng and I will get  a copy of it for you over the weekend.
I am at full-time work now (after a  break) and it takes up much of my research time! LOL!!!
bye for now
best wishes
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: hjem on Friday 04 April 08 20:44 BST (UK)
Hi Katy
well you've got much more than us!! We have Owen married Lydia Clark (parents John & Ann Clark of Lynn - Kings Lynn) on 31.1.1831. census forms for 1841 1851 1861(Alfred & Robert only) 1881, 1891 and 1901.  Then from Mum and Baptism records we have their children John bap 1834 Sedgeford, Richard Owen b 31.5.1835 bap June 1835, then Richard Owen again along with Joseph William bap July 8th 1838 (no record of a Richard dying and census has Richard as 3 yrs older than Joseph!! obviously done to confuse us!) both born in Sedgeford and Mum thinks Richard may have been a watchmaker, then Robert Samuel bap 7.4.1840 Mum thinks poss church minister born Thornham, Ebenezer Calvin bap 14.1.1844 Thornham, Alfred Isaac 25.1.1846 Thornham Mum thought poss a blacksmith and maybe married Ann Mason (he & Robert were lodging with Mason family in 1861, Owen Henry bap 9.1.1848 Thornham married Margaret Eastop from Glasgow (died Birmingham c1934, Margaret died 1928/9 in Belvedere) and Mum thought there was a girl Christine who died in infancy - we could find no record of this.  I 'come from' Owen Henry, they had 10  girls and 1 boy - their 6th child was Elizabeth Jane born 25.11.1881 at 11 Edith Street Haggerston, Married Frederick Thomas Burr on 2.3.1902, had 5 children Mum being the youngest, and died on 15.10.1972.
Owen & Margaret had:- Margaret 1871 m Harry Burr (Grannys bro in law) 8 children Harry Alec Maggie & ?????

                                      Amelia 1873 m Walter Griffin  1 child Walter
                                      Lydia Jean 1875 m Alec Kelly had Lyddie, Maggie, Alec & Bill
                                      Harriet A 1878 m Ted Brockman had Will, Maggie, Dolly (Edith), Robbie & Charley
                                      Owen Henry 1880 m Ethel Blainey  adopted 3 then had 2 of their own
                                       Elizabeth Jane (Granny) 1881 m Fred Burr had Frederick, Elizabeth Rose (Rosie), Victor,
                                                                                                           Lyddie and Freda (Mum)
                                       Alice Louise 1885 at Chiswick m George Coates  had 5  Margaret, George ?    ?    ?   Alice was booked to go on the Titanic but missed it - Luckily!!
                                       Edith 1887 Silvertown Essex m Frank Smith  had Doris & Joan  (I don't envy them looking for Smiths and Jones!!)
                                        Grace Joan 1890 m Alan Partridge had 1 stepson
                                         Gertrude 14.11.1893  Erith m Gilbert Ashbee in 1914 had Tommy (15.3.14), Winnie (11.1.16)
                                          and Margaret (19.5.33) who died at 13.  It is Winnie's son we are in contact with.
                                    and Ethel Oct 1897 Erith  m Jim Tappin  had David.

Someone had a Grace as Mum used to work with Auntie Gracie and cousin Gracie in the Holloway Pleating Company in Holloway Road London.
The first 6 of Owen & Margarets children were born at Haggerston.

Mum also thought that 1 of the 7 Jones Brothers (O & L's) was the Jones ot Jones and Dunn Hatmakers -  not unreasonable as Lydia was a bonnet maker (or is that clutching at straws!!)

Oh how I wish I'd payed more attention to Mum and Granny's 'ramblings' when they knew what they were talking about - Granny would have known exactly who did what, where and when.  Still we're getting there and with your bits, Maurice's bits and our bits we are at least 'getting the picture'.

Don't think it helps your personal search but hopefully will fill in some gaps, as yours has done for us.   As you've been to Kew do you live near there?  We do.

Chat later
Mary
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Friday 04 April 08 21:31 BST (UK)
Phew! Mary that must have taken ages for you to type. I like your pun about clutching at straws and bonnet maker LOL! And yes I do live near Kew - wouldn't it be funny if we had passed each other in the street. In fact - if you like - we could meet up - I'll send you a personal msg with more details - don't want all the Jones rootschatters knocking on more door for  a brew - not that I would mind - no offence meant!
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Friday 04 April 08 22:18 BST (UK)
Hello Mary
here is another listing for your perusal - this time with all the children that I have found:
1.   Owen JONES, b. 1807 in Ruthin, Denbigh, Wales, (son of Richard Jones and Mary ?). He married Lydia CLARK, married 31-JAN-1831 in King's Lynn, Nfk, b. 1807 in NFK.
            Children:
   †    2.   i   Joseph William JONES b. 1838.
       †    ii   John JONES, b. 1833 in NFK.
   †    3.   iii   Richard Owen JONES b. 1835.
       †    iv   Robert JONES, b. 1840.† He married Emily ?, b. 1838 in Reading, Berks.
       †    v   Ebenezer JONES, b. 1844 in NFK.† He married Sophia, b. 1845 in Stibbard, Nfk.
   †    4.   vi   Owen H Jones b. 1848.

Second Generation

2.   Joseph William JONES, b. 1838 in NFK.† He married Mary Ann Cross, married 25-Dec-1858 in Burnham Westgate, Nfk, b. 1842 in Burnham Westgate, Nfk, (daughter of william Cross and Sophia Chaplin).
            Children:
   †    5.   i   Arthur Owen JONES b. 9 May 1867.
       †    ii   Joseph Jones, b. 1869 in Mdx.
       †    iii   Leonard JONES, b. 1860 in NFK.
       †    iv   Daughter JONES, b. 1856 in NFK.

3.   Richard Owen JONES, b. 1835 in Sedgeford, Nfk.† He married Emma Harcourt (?), married 24-Dec-1848 in Birmingham, b. 1831.
            Children:
       †    i   Grace Jones, b. 1867 in Shoreditch.
   †    6.   ii   Richard O. H. Jones b. 1869.

4.   Owen H Jones, b. 1848 in Thornham, Nfk.† He married Margaret.
            Children:
       †    i   Margaret E Jones, b. 1871 in Hackney.

Third Generation

5.   Arthur Owen JONES, b. 9 May 1867 in 26 Craven Street.† He married Sophia Clifton, b. ABT 1866 in Bethnal Green, (daughter of William Clifton and Sophia Unknown).
            Children:
       †    i   Sophia Jones, b. 1889 in Shoreditch.
       †    ii   Robert Jones, b. 1892 in Shoreditch.
   †    7.   iii   Arthur William Jones b. 21 Aug 1895.

6.   Richard O. H. Jones, b. 1869 in Dalston, Mdx.† He married Adelaide Amelia Andrew, married 1893 in Islington (district).
            Children:
       †    i   James Jones, b. 1896.
       †    ii   John Jones, b. 1895.
       †    iii   Mary A Jones, b. 1897.

Fourth Generation

7.   Arthur William Jones, b. 21 Aug 1895 in Haggerston, London.† He married Margery Blight, b. 6 Dec 1897 in Plymouth, (daughter of William Blight and Adelaide Mary Pollard (2)) d. 31 Jan 1946 in Surbiton, Surrey.
            3 Children:
   †    

Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: gilfordian on Saturday 07 January 12 22:33 GMT (UK)
After a long gap, I'm wondering if anyone is still researching this branch of the Jones family. I've only just found it and am amazed to see so much of my own family history written for me!
The Grace that Mary mentions at the Holloway Pleating Company was my grandmother, she died in 1956. Her brother Stanley died in about 1970.
I know a few more details, maybe some myths, and have a few photo's if there is still anyone out there I would be very pleased to make contact.
Dave
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Wednesday 11 January 12 21:55 GMT (UK)
Hello Dave,
Although I have not been actively searching for some time, I am still very interested and it was with great interest that I read your message. Mary (on rootschat) has visited Ruthin and found out some interesting tidbits. It will take a bit of sorting out to see how we are connected...2nd\3rd cousins perhaps? I do have my tree in a program so can send you my info if you wish. How exciting this all is....and I look forward to hearing from you. Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: gilfordian on Friday 13 January 12 17:31 GMT (UK)
Hello Katy
I've just spent the last hour typing and checking notes etc, and suddenly he whole lot disappeared.  Please let me know if you have recd anything, otherwise I'll do it all again.
Meanwhile have you seen http://www.hunstantonnewsletter.co.uk/hnl/index.php/archive-of-all-old-articles/1338-aug-08letters-to-the-editor.html
Alfred Isaac Jones was my great grandfather, and according to a note from Mary to you on 4/4/08 he was the 6th child of Owen & Lydia.
More to follow
Dave Jones
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: gilfordian on Friday 13 January 12 21:39 GMT (UK)
Hello Katy
2nd try!
I will admit to being very new to family history, I did look up the 1901 census for Hunstanton and found the family that I knew or had heard of. More on that later.
Various myths & legends that I have heard are that it was thought there were Welsh roots, but no more info than that. The existence of a Welsh bible said to have been handed down was the only thing to give that substance. (I managed to find it yesterday, sadly no names have been written in to give any clues as to past ownership). It was also said that my gg made the ornamental gates at Sandringham, but I rather doubted that.
I knew that there was a very strong Hunstanton link, and the name Sedgeford was familiar too.
On the 1901 census it lists my gg, Alfred Isaac, and his son, Stanley Walker, as blacksmiths. This was a revelation to me as I had never heard that before, maybe because I had never asked. However, it suddenly made the gates story a bit more plausible.
So, Alfred Isaac and his wife Annie (probably Walker) were my great grandparents. They had 2 children, Gracie Hannah (b1879, d10/2/56) and Stanley Walker (b c1886, d c1970).
Neither Gracie nor Stanley ever married, to the very best of my knowledge. However, Gracie had my Dad, Kenneth Hope Jones, (in Bournemouth) on 30/11/1916. He was bought up by Stanley, his uncle, only finding out who was who after the war when he had to get a birth cert for a job with the Post Office. Dad married Gladys Cuttriss on 8/2/47 and I was born on 16/6/48.
I donít know when the move to London was made, but I guess it was anytime after they moved from Park Rd in 1913. There were several addresses, but always around the Holloway and Tufnell Park area. That said, there was mention of Dad living at Sewardstone, between Chingford and Waltham Abbey.
I would imagine that the Holloway Pleating Company would be in the 1920ís and maybe early 1930ís. That was at 491 Holloway Rd (I have a postcard of it) and I have a book with Gracies address, probably at the same time at 503 Holloway Road.

Do you have any family photoís? I have a few but can only identify a small number of people, wonder if you can help.

Typically, we donít think of asking the right questions until itís too late. A family friend (Lillian Newstead) that knew Hunstanton, and then before WW2 moved to Holloway, died in about 1990. She could have told me so much.

Iíll leave you to try and make sense of that for now.

Dave
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Sunday 09 September 12 18:13 BST (UK)
Hello Dave
my most sincere apologies for not replying sooner - I really am very interested in our tree and can only hope that you will forgive me -  I am just starting year two of a 3-year degree in history and switched off to everything else - again I am very sorry. I really need to read through yours and Mary's information to get myself back on track. I start back at uni in a couple of weeks so I am hoping you get this message very soon.
Have you been tracking people down - or been on any fact finding missions? 

I really do hope that you forgive -  me I am so sorry 


Here are a couple of photos of my mum - both of them she is early twenties.

Best wishes Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Sunday 09 September 12 18:33 BST (UK)
Dave
 
I wonder if you have contacted the Hunstanton Journal? If not perhaps I could and we could ask for a photo!

best wishes
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Sunday 09 September 12 20:53 BST (UK)
Have you seen these?
http://home.comcast.net/~dgoodman/gabriel.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/denbighshire/pages/ruthin_history.shtml

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GOODMAN/2009-01/1231351355

http://www.goodmanhistory.com/intro-and-background.html

http://www.archive.org/stream/memoirofgabrielg00newc/memoirofgabrielg00newc_djvu.txt

just a few.....Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: gilfordian on Tuesday 11 September 12 21:50 BST (UK)
Hello Katy
I thought you had given up on me! But very pleased to hear from you again. I'm afraid I've done almost nothing since we were last in contact other than email the person who lives in the Park Road house in Hunstanton. Due to pressure of other things I've not been able to follow it up, I would like to visit though.
Thanks for the various links that you sent, as above,I've not looked at them yet but I have some time tomorrow and will have a look.
I have a couple of pics that I can't find right now, but I will look them out and email them to you. One of the Jones family c1910 at Hunstanton and the other in the late 1920's probably at Holloway.
Thanks also for the pics that you attached, I'm struggling though to see a family likeness!!
I'll be back in touch in a couple of days once I have found and scanned the pics and we'll take it from there.
Regards
Dave
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Wednesday 12 September 12 18:10 BST (UK)
Hello Dave, as if I would give up on you! ;)
Thanks for replying - I need to look through my paper work to get my mind back onto Jones'. Have you got any family tree software? I've been using Brother's Keeper for about 20 years - free to download and use - and it is very good and easy to use.
I think one of the main Jones' traits is thick black\dark brown hair - well it was when we were younger - oh! yea and very intelligent, and modest!
bye for now
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: gilfordian on Friday 14 September 12 21:43 BST (UK)
Hello Katy
I think you left 'sense of humour' off of your list!
I've sent a couple of photo's, the ones I mentioned before. Apologies for the flash but I can't find the decent copy that I made by taking the print oput of the frame. Standing L-R are Stanley Walker Jones, Alfred Isaace Jones, Annie Jones (Nee Walker), I don't know who the young man is at the right. Seated L-R is Gracie Hannah Jones (my Grandmother), not sure who is next but could be Lillian Newstead, a long tome friend of Gracie, Again not sure of the elderly lady but couod be Annies Mother (going on facial features) and not sure who the young lady is at the right. I belive this is taken at Park Road in Hunstanton, in about 1905 (ish).
The second picture is I am sure taken at Holloway Road, either Gracies home at 503 or the Holloway Pleating Co works at 491 (I suspect the former). I can only identify two people in this and they are Gracie (seated and looking at the camera) and my Dad, Keneth. I would guess this is around the late 1920's as Dad was born in 1916. It woud be wonderful if someone could identify the other three women. Note hanging on the wall is the the first picture!
In one of the previous posts mention was made of Annie Jones being Annie Mason(?) before she married. Mr Edmunds of Hunstanton suggests that it was Walker, which I would go along with as Stanleys middle name was Walker.
I've no family tree, either written on a large sheet of paper or computor prog form. I really only stumbled across this site by Googling Alfred Isaac etc and found 'my family history' ready written for me. I would though like to go to Hunstanton to see the various addresses there.
I'll have to close now but hope this is of some interest or use to you.
Regards
Dave
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: gilfordian on Friday 14 September 12 22:21 BST (UK)
Katy
Sorry, but I've been trying without sucess to load the pictures but it just will not send them.
I will try again toimorrow
Dave
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Tuesday 18 September 12 18:00 BST (UK)
Hello Dave,
I could send you a private message with my email address and then hopefully you could send the pics. I've been going through my stuff (technical term that) and found this email from Mary Huntingford - she is on roots chat and I did email her last week but not had a reply:

Owen Jones
ę Sent to: kt4u on: Tuesday 25 March 08 18:57 GMT (UK) Ľ
   

________________________________________
Hi
I have just been 'browsing' and came across you - we have an Owen Jones born Denbigh c1806, moved to Thornham Norfolk, married Lydia Clark and had John, Richard Owen, Joseph, Robert Samuel (poss church mimister), Ebenezer Calvin, Alfred Isaac (poss blacksmith), Owen Henry (Engineer and my great grandfather) and possibly Christine who died in childbirth.  The first 3 were born in Sedgeford and the others in Thornham - just a few miles down the road.    The question is. . . . are we talking about the same Owen Jones?  We went to Norwich to County Hall and there were very few Joneses there at that time and only 2 Owens and only 1 marrying a Lydia which crops up a lot in the family.
The 'son' Owen then had 11 children, 10 girls and 1 boy - Owen Henry, his 'next in line' sister was my Granny.

What do you think? is it the same Owen?  If so it would be great to swap information
ę Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 20:44:43 Ľ   

________________________________________
Hi Katy
well you've got much more than us!! We have Owen married Lydia Clark (parents John & Ann Clark of Lynn - Kings Lynn) on 31.1.1831. census forms for 1841 1851 1861(Alfred & Robert only) 1881, 1891 and 1901.
 
Then from Mum and Baptism records we have their children John bap 1834 Sedgeford,
Richard Owen b 31.5.1835 bap June 1835,
then Richard Owen again along with Joseph William bap July 8th 1838 (no record of a Richard dying and census has Richard as 3 yrs older than Joseph!! obviously done to confuse us!) both born in Sedgeford and Mum thinks Richard may have been a watchmaker,

then Robert Samuel bap 7.4.1840 Mum thinks poss church minister born Thornham,
Ebenezer Calvin bap 14.1.1844 Thornham,
Alfred Isaac 25.1.1846 Thornham Mum thought poss a blacksmith and maybe married Ann Mason (he & Robert were lodging with Mason family in 1861,
Owen Henry bap 9.1.1848 Thornham married Margaret Eastop from Glasgow (died Birmingham c1934, Margaret died 1928/9 in Belvedere) and Mum thought there was a girl Christine who died in infancy - we could find no record of this.
 I 'come from' Owen Henry, they had 10  girls and 1 boy Ė
their 6th child was Elizabeth Jane born 25.11.1881 at 11 Edith Street Haggerston, Married Frederick Thomas Burr on 2.3.1902,

had 5 children Mum being the youngest, and died on 15.10.1972.

Owen & Margaret had:- Margaret 1871 m Harry Burr (Grannys bro in law) 8 children Harry Alec Maggie &  ??

 Amelia 1873 m Walter Griffin  1 child Walter               
 Lydia Jean 1875 m Alec Kelly had Lyddie, Maggie, Alec & Bill

 Harriet A 1878 m Ted Brockman had Will, Maggie, Dolly (Edith), Robbie & Charley

Owen Henry 1880 m Ethel Blainey  adopted 3 then had 2 of their own

Elizabeth Jane (Granny) 1881 m Fred Burr had Frederick, Elizabeth Rose (Rosie), Victor,
                                                                                          Lyddie and Freda (Mum)

Alice Louise 1885 at Chiswick m George Coates  had 5  Margaret, George ?    ?    ?   Alice was booked to go on the Titanic but missed it - Luckily!!

Edith 1887 Silvertown Essex m Frank Smith  had Doris & Joan  (I don't envy them looking for Smiths and Jones!!)

Grace Joan 1890 m Alan Partridge had 1 stepson
Gertrude 14.11.1893  Erith m Gilbert Ashbee in 1914 had Tommy (15.3.14),
Winnie (11.1.16) and
Margaret (19.5.33) who died at 13. 
It is Winnie's son we are in contact with and
Ethel Oct 1897 Erith  m Jim Tappin  had David.

Someone had a Grace as Mum used to work with Auntie Gracie and cousin Gracie in the Holloway Pleating Company in Holloway Road London.
The first 6 of Owen & Margarets children were born at Haggerston.

Mum also thought that 1 of the 7 Jones Brothers (O & L's) was the Jones ot Jones and Dunn Hatmakers -  not unreasonable as Lydia was a bonnet maker (or is that clutching at straws!!)

Oh how I wish I'd payed more attention to Mum and Granny's 'ramblings' when they knew what they were talking about - Granny would have known exactly who did what, where and when.  Still we're getting there and with your bits, Maurice's bits and our bits we are at least 'getting the picture'.

Don't think it helps your personal search but hopefully will fill in some gaps, as yours has done for us.   As you've been to Kew do you live near there?  We do.

Chat later
Mary
===========
Here are my mum's ancestors...I am going to try and attach a document for you..ooh! it worked... so the document is info that I got from my family tree prog.- once you put in a few people you can get all different sorts of reports by the press of a button.

best wishes Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: gilfordian on Tuesday 18 September 12 21:35 BST (UK)
Hello Katy

That woud be a good idea, I think the problem is that they are to big (an d I do't know how to make them smaller!), but I know I can email them at this size.

Re Mary Huntigfords posts, the Alfred Isaac that she mentions is without doubt my great grandfather. Both he & his son Stanley were Blacksmiths in the Hunstanton area. So Owen & Lydia were my, and Marys, great great grandparents. might that be the same for you?

All for the moment
Dave
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Tuesday 18 September 12 21:54 BST (UK)
Hello Dave,
Well that's some more cousins to add to my Christmas Card list then!
Owen and Lydia were my great great great grandparents - funny how generations can get messed up - in ages that is - (on my dad's side) I have one cousin 70 odd and another early 20s! That would throw future researchers in a bit of a spin.
The reason I got the software was cos my dad was one of 15 and I thought it a good idea at the time - never knowing where it would lead me...
Where do you live?
My mum never met her dad and she was brought up in a childrens' home: here is a little website I made earlier about her life there.- http://www.katyc112.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm
bye for now
Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: sweeneyamand on Monday 17 July 17 18:05 BST (UK)
My name is Amanda and my mums partner johns grandad was richard owen henry jones.  John has no info about him as he died 6 years before john was born in 1940.  Does anyone have any pictures or info on richard ? His wife adelaide died 1918 4 years after rosa jones (johns mother was born).  Did richard remarry as he had quite a few children to look after ?
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: kt4u on Tuesday 11 December 18 12:47 GMT (UK)
Hello Amanda,

Crikey, I am so sorry - I have only just seen this post -  :'( I've not been doing much research on my tree for a while now.

You were asking about Richard Owen Henry Jones...if you're still on here I'll have a look in my files and see if I have anything for him.

Huge apologies, Katy
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: hmej on Sunday 31 March 19 15:15 BST (UK)
Hi, my mum Freda (born 1916) worked at the Holloway pleating company, her mum was Lizzie Jones
Hello Katy

That woud be a good idea, I think the problem is that they are to big (an d I do't know how to make them smaller!), but I know I can email them at this size.

Re Mary Huntigfords posts, the Alfred Isaac that she mentions is without doubt my great grandfather. Both he & his son Stanley were Blacksmiths in the Hunstanton area. So Owen & Lydia were my, and Marys, great great grandparents. might that be the same for you?

All for the moment
Dave
Title: Re: Have I got the correct parents?
Post by: hmej on Sunday 31 March 19 15:19 BST (UK)
Re Owen Henry Jones family history I have quite a bit of info.
Mary