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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: irvinemg on Saturday 01 December 07 08:57 GMT (UK)
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James and William Campbell, Bagpipers to Queen Victoria. Seeking information
on the families of above. James Campbell of Kintail Head Piper to the Queen from 1881 to 1910. James nephew William Campbell served as Piper 1891 to 1901.
James Campbell born Kintail Scotland 1853
William Campbell born Kiltarilty Scotland 1872.
Many thanks. Mike
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Hi Mike :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Can you tell us what sort of information you are after for your men? And also (and most importantly) what information you already have, apart from the details you've given above? For example, do you have parents' names etc.
You will get plenty of help here at Rootschat, from the friendliest bunch of people you're likely to find - online or anywhere else :D
Cheers
Prue
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Hi Mike & welcome from me too :)
Civil registrations are on the IGI from 1855 to 1875. The only William Campbell I can find in Inverness 1872 is registered Laggan which is some distance from Kiltarlity. Is this your man - parents given as Coll Campbell and Isabella MacDonald. There are a few more either side of 1872
Trish
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Hi Mike,
Found James Campbell in 1881 Scotland Census, and at that time he is an ex-piper from 42 nd Highland Infranty. Maybe just before his Royal Appointment.
On the 1881 census at Lower Bridgend Kilmorack, Inverness-shire,
William Campbell 67 b 1814 Tongue, Sutherland - Shepherd
Elizabeth Campbell 57 b 1824 Roxburgh-shire
Robert Campbell 33 b 1848 Loch Broom –Ross-shire Game Keeper
Adam Campbell 29 b 1852 Kintail – Ex Police Constable
James Campbell 27 b 1854 Kintail G, Ross-shire Late Piper 42nd Highland Infantry
Jessie Campbell 12 b 1869 Kintail G, Ross-shire Scholar
Tom
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Hi MIke,
Follow this link and read on,
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02ak/
I googled "royal piper to vicotria" not difficult, I was away checking census details etc.
Tom
PS Just read he had to take orders from John Brown, who was portrayed by Billy Connoly in the film about Victoria.
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Prue and Trish.
The Campbell descendants I am looking for are from William Campbell and my
Great Aunt Elizabeth Irvine. They had a family of ten children, one of which, James became the Queen's Piper in 1881 taken his instructions from John Brown.
William was James's nephew. William died in British Columbia Canada in 1960 aged 87 years. I have his death cert but it dosen't give his parents. Would like to hear from any relatives of these men.
Both men lived around Inverness, Urquhart, Knockbain, Kilmonvaig area.
James Campbell died in 1930 and is buried at the priory church Beauly Inverness.
Hopefully the above information will help the Campbell's I am searching for.
Tom.
Many thanks, this is the family. I did have this info and am hoping to get contacts
from Campbell's who I am sure, are aware of the Royal association.
Regards Mike.
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1861
Kintail
Ross and Cromarty
Address Malm
registration Number 72 ED 1 page 2
William Campbell age 47 Shepherd born Tongue Sutherlandshire
Elizabeth Campbell age 38 Roberlon Roxburghshire
William son age 17 Lockbroom Rosshire
Robert son age 13 Lockbroom Rosshire
Adam son age 9 Kintail
James C Campbell son age 7 born Kintail Rosshire
Alexr W son age 5 Kintail
Rachel dau age 1 Beauly Invernesshire
Ann McKenzie age 18 servant born Lochalsh Rosshire
1871
Kintail
Ross and Cromarty
Registration number 72 ED 1 page 2
Corrynagullan Shepherd house
William Campbell age 57 Shepherd Tongue sutherland
Elizabeth wife age 48 Roberton
William son age 27 Lochbroom Gamekeeper
Mary dau age 21 Kintail servant
Adam son age 19 lab unemployed Kintail
James Campbell son age 17 shepherds son kintail
Alexr son age 15 Kintail
Elizabeth dau age 9
Helen dau age 5
1861
Registration Number 75/1 ED 5 page 6
Lochbroom Ross and Cromarty
Address Achlunachan
Donald Mckenzie age 45 Gardener Lochbroom
Catherine wife age 38 lochbroom
Catherine dau age 3 Lochbroom
Helen dau age 1 Lochbroom
Duncan McKenzie age 32 brother born Lochbroom Tenant
Catherine McKenzie age 18 sister Lochbroom
Roderick McKenzie brother age 15 Lochbroom
Mary Campbell niece age 12 born Lochbroom
1881
Registration number 100 ED 1 page 53
Kimorack Inverness
Lower Bridgend
William Campbell age 67 Shepherd born Tongue
Elizabeth wife age 57 Roxburghshire
Robert son age 33 Gamekeeper born Lochbroom
Adam son age 29 Kintail late Police constable
James Campbell age 27 born Kintail late piper 42 end-Highin-Is
Jessie Campbell dau age 12 born Kintail where did she come from?
Pam
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Pam. Are the records as you have listed appear as such?
I am looking for living relatives but to my surprise you have
added one Jessie I didn't know of. Her mother must have been
47 when Jessie was born in 1869.
I thought there were only ten children. One John died very early.
I don't know who Mary Campbell is the niece of. But guess she is
William and Elizabeth's daughter.
Many thanks. Mike.
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hello
yes I assume Mary Campbell age 12 niece is William and Elizabeths daughter. There is a Ann Mackenzie with William 1861. The spelling is Mackenzie not Mc.
There must be a family connection some where.
I have Adam the police constable 1891/ do you want the details?
Pam
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Sorry
The information listed is off Ancestry.
Pam
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Thanks Pam.
The information on Adam Campbell would be appreciated.
I can only think that Donald MacKenzie's wife was Catherine Campbell
as Elizabeth Irvine didn't have a sister Catherine Irvine.
Will now have a look to find the marriage of Donald and Catherine.
Amazing what one finds out, with a little help.
Many thanks. Mike
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1891
Registration number 92/2 ED 2 page 15
Abertarff Inverness
Private house
Adam Campbell age 29 police constable Kintail Rosshire
Catherine Campbell age 32 Harris Inverness
Elizabeth Bell Campbell dau age 11 barra Inverness
Ann Campbell dau age 7 Kilmorack Inverness
Mary ann Campbell age 4 Kiltarlity inverness
William Campbell son age 1 Kiltarlity
1871
registration Number 107/2 ED 4 page 2
address Ceannacroe
Glenmoriston
Urquhart
Inverness
William Campbell age 33 head born Urquhart Invernesshire
Robert Campbell visitor age 23 born Lochbroom Ross gamekeeper out of employ
Pam
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Hello
I think Elizabeth Bell Campbell must be Bella
1881
Registration Number 111/2 ED 6 page 7
South Harris
Harris
Invernesshire
Address Nesebost
Angus McDonald age 52 formally shepherd born Harris G Invernesshire
Ann McDonald wife age Lochalsh G Rosshire Dairymaid
Catherine Campbell age 23 born Harris G Inverness Housemaid domestic servant
Liggie must be Lizzie Bella Campbell grandaughter age 1 born Barra Inverness her occupation is domestic servant start them young ;)
Pam
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Now here 1901
Catherine Campbell is MacDonald?
1891 seems to have Adam 29 when he should be 39 we only get the transcribed pages from Ancestry for the Scottish censuses so I cannot view the census page like the UK censuses.
1901
Registration Number 98 ED 12 page 3
30 Bridge Street
Invermness town
Inverness
Catherine MacDonald age 42 born Harris Island of
Lizzie Campbell dau age 21 Harris Isle of domestic servant
Ann Campbell dau age 18 born Beauly Inverness
Mary Campbell dau age 15 Strathglass Inverness
William Campbell son age 11 Strathglass
Catherin Campbell dau age 8 Fort Augustus Invernesshire
Helen Campbell dau age 6 Inverness Invernesshire
John Campbell son age 3 Inverness
1901 Could this Be Adam??
Registration number 99/1 ED 1 page 6
Glenglarry
Kilmonivaig
Inverness
Address S E L Oich Narry Huts
Adam Campbell age 49 lodger born Kintail Rosshire occupation Narry
Other people listed also
Could Narry be Navvy?
Pam
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Gee Pam
Your sure giving me work to do.
Can't find a marriage for a Donald McKenzie and Catherine Campbell.
Also can't find a marriage for Adam Campbell and Catherine McDonald.
Did find a birth for Catherine McDonald born Harris on 3rd Sept 1857. Her sister also Catherine had died the year before in 1856. Parent's Angus
McDonald and Ann McRae. I knew there was a tie-up with the McRae's
thru the Campbell's.
Would love to find the Catherine Campbell of Loch Broom daughter to
William Campbell. Catherine being my Great aunt Elizabeth Irvine's sister
in Law.
Again thanks Pam
Mike
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Pam.
A little curious as to why Catherine named herself as McDonald in the
records, wonder if they were separated, ie marriage breakup.
The Adam Campbell aged 49 could well be my Adam who was born in
1850 at Malm Kintail.
Could be Navy. Wasn't the old term Navvy used for a Labourer ?
Mike
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Pam
Donald MacKenzie's wife was Catherine Munro. Their children Catherine
b.25/6/1857, and Helen b 9/1/1860 both of Loch Broom.
Can't figure out how Mary Campbell daughter of William Campbell and Elizabeth Irvine could be a niece.
Mike
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Pam The Mary Campbell living with the McKenzie's isn't the Mary of my direct
family.
MARY CAMPBELL b. 15/12/1850 Alness Rossshire. Daughter of James
Campbell and Margaret Munro, and a niece of Catherine Munro and
Donald McKenzie.
Ignore my suggestion of a Catherine Campbell and Donald McKenzie, no
such couple.
Mike
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Hello
Where was the Mary daughter of William then 1861?
Must have another look for her.
regards Pam
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Wonder where Mary Campbell was 1861 she is 21 on the 1871 census
1851
Parish Number 72 ED 2 Page 1
Kintail
Ross and Cromarty
address Malm
William Campbell age 36 Shepherd born Tongue Sutherlandshire
Elisabeth wife age 28 Roberton Roxburghshire
William son age 7 Lochbroom
Robert son age 4 Lochbroom
Mary Ann dau age 2 kintail
Margaret MacLennan visitor age 35 born Glenshiel rosshire
Mary Mathison servant age 21 Lochalsh
1891 Wonder if this Jessie Campbell was a relative not a daughter on the 1881 census to William and Elizabeth?
Could this be the same Jessie?? age a bit out!!
Registration number 74 ED 10 page 1
Lochalsh
Ross and Cromarty
Address Bendronaig
Robert Campbell age 43 Deerstalker born Kintail
Jessie Campbell wife age 27 Kintail
Mary M Campbell dau age 2 Kilmorack invernesshire
William M Campbell son age 6 months Lochmalsh
Catherine MacRae age 15 general servant NK Invernesshire
1901
Registration number 72 ED 2 page 2
Kintail
Killilan
Ross and Cromarty
Address Fadock House
Rober Campbell age 53 born Kintail Deer stalker
Jessie wife age 57? should be 37 born Glenshiel Rosshire
Mary dau age 12 born Kittarlity Invernesshire
William M son age 10 Lochmalsh
Donald M son age 8 Lochmalsh
James Colin M son age 4 Lochmalsh
Elizabeth dau age 1 Kintail
Margaret MacRae age 18 general servant Kintail
Pam
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Pam.
The Jessie wife of Robert Campbell was a girl McRae. All or most of
their son's have M for McRae as their middle christian name.
Robert is James and Adam's brother.
As for Mary Campbell missing in the census, only knows ??? Mary went on
to marry her 1st cousin another William Campbell. Mary died at Fort Augustus
Scotland in 1915.
Very confusing to say the least.
Adam Campbell married Catherine McDonald of Tarbert Harris on the 20th March 1879.
As for little Jessie Campbell born 1869. I just didn't know she existed.
Will keep searching.
Please keep in touch.
Mike :)
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Adam Campbell, native of Kintail, aged 26 (born c. 1852) joined the Inverness-shire Constabulary on 25th March 1878.
He is recorded as having previously been a Shepherd and then a Gamekeeper.
His first station was Obbe (now Leverburgh) on the Isle of Harris, and in November 1878 he was transferred to the opposite end of the Western Isles, on the Island of Barra. He resigned from the force on 3rd March 1880.
(He obviously met his wife while stationed in Harris - this happened a lot to young bobbies posted to the Hebrides, including me!!)
Interesting that Adam's family had by this time moved to Bridgend, Kilmorack (near Beauly) - see 1881 census - as in 1882 he successfully re-applied to join the Force, being taken on on 7th August, and was posted to Strathglass (the Struy/Cannich area, i.e. up the Glen from Beauly towards Glen Affric). His performance was obviously acceptable as he was upgraded to 2nd class Constable (more pay) in December 1886 and then again to 1st class in February 1889.
In June 1890 he moved to Fort Augustus (southern end of Loch Ness), and after three and a half years there he was transferred in December 1893 to Lentran Beat (between Inverness and Beauly). He left the Police Service on 20th May 1894, and obviously would have had to give up the rented house provided by the police.
The reference in thec 1901 census to Adam being a lodger at S E Loch Oich (not far from Fort Augustus) while a Navvy would ring true, as he would know the area well and was clearly employed on the construction of the railway from Spean Bridge to Fort Augustus (work started in 1897 and it finally opened in 1903). It is possible, given his previous police experience, that he could have been doing more of a security job rather than purely manual labour.
Hope this helps.
Dave
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Dave. Many thanks for your interesting notes. Really gives a picture of
my Great Aunt's son Adam.
Would be keen to see a book that the Police may print on the Islands and
Highlands, especially if Adam Campbell is mentioned.
I have an interesting query for you, and hope you can answer. Adam's oldest brother John Campbell has never been tracked down. However
on the 9th Sept 1884, a John Campbell of Strathglass was charged at the
Inverness Circuit Court, of Murdering the elderly Alexander McGillvary at the Struy Bridge on the 22nd July. John Campbell, and Alex McGillvary's
son, David, had a few too many drinks on the Pay day at the Struy Inn.
I am wondering if this John was Adam's brother, as the Campbell's, and as you mentioned, Adam was stationed at Strathglass Cannich.
Alex McGillvary came from Kiltarilty where Adam's nephew William Campbell
lived. William would have been 12. The year he got his first set of Pipes. In
1891 William became Queen's second Piper.
This is just a query, so you don't need to tie yourself up at length. Would be interested all the same. John Campbell lived a quarter of a mile away
from the Struy Bridge. He had a daughter Catherine.
Nice to hear from you. Keep in touch.
Regards Mike.
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Hi Mike
Just a point on the brother John. The first born John in 1845 looks to have died before the 1851 census and does not show in any census. There looks to have been another son, younger brother of Adam, also called John born on 3 FEB 1856 in Kintail. However, in Pam's census entries for the family, there is an Alexander showing in his place for 1861 (age 5) and 1871 (age 15). Not sure what's what there :-\
Monica :)
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Monica. Nice to hear from you.
I guess you're right about John dying. Hence the parents renaming
the youngest son John, then having second thoughts.
The youngest brother was renamed Alexander Williamson Campbell and was originally named John. I have never seen the original entry, but wonder if the Williamson name was misinterpruted as " William' Son "ie Son of William, and not Williamson. Williamson is not a family name. The original Grt and Grt Grandmother's were MacKays' from Durness Sutherland.
Alexander and his sister Rachel moved to New Zealand and are buried
in Canterbury NZ. Ironic was the fact that the Pipes that were given to
their nephew William by King Edward VII ended up in Canterbury NZ from Canada in 1982, then shipped to Southerbys in London for
Auction.
John Campbell was born at Loch Broom Rossshire on the 17 May 1845.
Alexander W ( John ) Campbell born 3 Feb 1856 Malm Kintail and died in
NZ in 1926.
Regards.
Mike.
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From the info you have, I think this may be the potential John Campbell who killed old Alex McG:
John Campbell 46, general lab., b. South Uist (G), Invss Shire
Janet Campbell 49
Rachel Campbell 14
Catherine Campbell 9
Georgina Campbell 8
Address:Invercannich, Kilmorack
He's the only one showing with a daughter Catherine in the area ::)
Monica
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I would very much doubt that the accused in the murder case would have been the local bobby's brother. Had it been so, then undoubtedly Adam would have been moved out of the area at the first possible opportunity. It would have made his position untenable.
Incidentally, whereas latterly an officer would be recorded as being stationed at a specific location e.g. "Beauly" or "Cannich", in earlier times it was the Beat which was recorded, such as "Strathglass", because it would seem that the police rented a house where the officer stayed (and used a room as an office). As such, if the rent became too much, or the house became too msall for an officer's family, or if a distant part of the beat became busier and merited moving the officer nearer the "action", an alternative house in the area would be rented. In more recent times, the police authority adopted a policy of building (or buying) houses in the main village of the beat, and thus a permanent location for the "police Station" was established.
I would think that Adam would have been based in or around Cannich, rather than down towards Struy, as Cannich village sits at the junction of several glens.
Cannich, incidentally, became quite a busy place immediately post WW2, with the construction of the Hydro-Electric dams and the quiet glens occupied by large numbers of construction workers!
Sorry I have no information on police "customers"!
Dave
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Dave. You're quite correct in that Adam Campbell would be put in a very
delicate position and would only cause more difficulties in the area, hence
have to be relocated.
Your comment on the Campbell's living around Beauly. Will mention this
for those interested. After Sir Walter Scott died in 1832, his Factor
William Laidlaw aquired a position with the Seaforth McKenzie's near
Loch Broom. Laidlaw mayhave gathered the Irvine, Rae and Common
Amos and Laidlaw families to work with him. Laidlaw later got employment
as factor to Ross of Balnagowan, hence the shift down to the Beauly, Rosskeen area.
Grt Grt Grandfather's sister Elizabeth married a Robert Laidlaw, and a Catherine Irvine of NZ married a William Laidlaw, a direct descendant of the Laidlaw's of Horseburgh Castle Traquiar.
My Grt Grt Grandmother is buried at Contin, a few plots away from
Wm Laidlaw, Scott's Factor.
Dave. Just a quiry re Cannich. I found once, an entry for a Fannich Camp, but couldn't find it on a Map. I guess it's Cannich Camp. Was it a Forestry
Camp or maybe a Road Boards Settlement originally ?
Monica. The entry re John Campbell with a Rachel in quite a coincidence.
Also the fact that in the 1851 census, a Margaret McLennan is with the
Campbell family. Your John Campbell born circa 1835 can't be my John.
Strange is that this John married a Janet McLennan at Kilmorack in1863.
Family: John, Rachel, Elizabeth, Catherine and Georgina.
My John was born in 1845 at Loch Broom, where the Irvine family first
met the Campbells'.
John Campbell the accused, was sentenced to 5 years penal servitude
for Manslaughter. Witnesses in the case were Donald McGillvary, Angus
McKinnon, John McLennan and Findlay McRae. Findlay needed an interpruter as he only spoke the Gael.
Still dosen't find the family or which John murdered who, but it dosen't
really matter.
Please excuse any spelling mistakes. Never was much good at English.
For historical reference, Adam and James's nephew James Colin McRae
Campbell ( Son of Robert ), went on to be a highly fluent Gaelic Singer
and Chieftain of the Gaelic Society of London. All the Campbell's were
Gaelic speakers. James, Queen's Piper spoke fluent German and this was
commented on by Kaiser Bill when on a shooting trip.
James retired to Fort Augustus and is buried with his parents at Beauly.
Thanks again Dave and Monica. Keep in touch.
Regards Mike.
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As stated earlier, I do not have any information as to where the officer for Strathglass lived aroudnb this period but the guys who were stationed there before and after Adam were:
1870 - 1871 Nathaniel CAMERON
1872 -1876 Hugh FORBES
1876 - 1882 Malcolm MACARTHUR
(1882-1890 Adam CAMPBELL)
1890 - 1891 Duncan CAMPBELL
1891 - 1892 John BARRON
1892 - 1895 John MACASKILL
1895 - 1913 William MACDONALD
Maybe if some kind soul could have a look in census records to see where the officer resided (although there's no guarantee that it would have been the same house for long periods)
As regards the Struy murder, it would no doubt have been reported in the papers of the time.
The fact that the accused spoke only Gaelic, would tie in with the census record of the chap Campbell from South Uist.
"Fannich" probably should be Cannich. There are some humdingers of Gaelic locations up that way which were Anglified - no wonder when folks are confronted with such as Loch Beinn a’ Mheadhoin
pronounced "benavean".
In 1947 the Chief constable of Inverness-shire reported to his Police Committee, in an effort to extra manpower for the area that:-
"There are to be two constructional Camps; one at Cannich to house about 1200 people and one at Loch Mullardoch - some 8 to 10 miles from Cannich - to house about 500 people. The total of 1700 will increase to about 2000 by the summer of 1948."[/i]
Worth a read is http://www.glenaffric.org/heritage_hydro.html
Incidentally (which is my favourite word) one of the camps - at Loch Mullardoch was called Cozac or even "Cossack" on some maps. Conditions for the police officer based there were rather basic!! (and remote!!!)
Dave
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Dave. The entry I had found for Fannich was on a document back in the
1800's, so there must have been a settlement earlier on.
I found the court case in a newspaper printed in 1884. If you're interested
in a copy, some 8 pages, I'll gladly post them to you. If you want to give me your address, send me a personal message. Makes
interesting reading.
There is no reference to Adam Campbell in the case, only Sherriffs.
The Gaelic is sure a weird language. I guess your lass has kept you up
to scratch with the phrasing etc.
Sadly, I don't have any info on Adam Campbell or photos. I don't know
when he died or is buried.
Most of the Campbell line died out. Neither James Campbell or his nephew
had boys. Robert had 3 sons, 2 emigrated to Canada and died young without boys. Both men serviced in WW1 with Canadian forces. The last
man, James CM Campbell stayed in Scotland and became the Gaelic singer. Only one boy from his family.
A coincidence, that in 1984 I sold my first home which was bought by the
Police for a Constable and his wife. If I had known at the time that William Campbell's pipes were for sale, I would have bought them.
Dave were you ever in Lewis? My piping teacher, Pipe Major Lewis Turrell,
who was the first man outside Scotland to win a Gold Medal at the Northern Meeting, was himself taught by Pipe Major (Wee) Donald McLeod
of Stornaway. I think Donald McLeod was in the Police Force.
Mike
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The address for Malcolm McArthur, wife Mary and family, in 1881 is simply "Police Station", Kiltarlity . Looks to be next to the Poorhouse as they are coming up mixed up with the McArthurs on the index of names I am looking at.
Monica
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Thanks Mike. I will indeed email you.
As for Fannich, the only instance of that name is "Loch Fannich is situated 12 miles west of Strathpeffer"), which is not far from the road to Loch Broom in Wester Ross. The Fannich/Fannaich range are a group of mountains (Munros) nearby.
Nope, I never served in Lewis. Skye was my limit, as they say!
Dave
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The address for Malcolm McArthur, wife Mary and family, in 1881 is simply "Police Station", Kiltarlity . Looks to be next to the Poorhouse as they are coming up mixed up with the McArthurs on the index of names I am looking at.
Monica
Thanks for that, Monica. Interesting that it's "Police Station, Kiltarlity". Nowadays Kiltarlity is primarily a village but back then it was likely a wider area, almost enitrely rural. The use of the location "Kiltarlity" as a location at which an officer was stationed only began in 1909, sio it is very possible that the one officer covered from Kilmorack, right up Strathglass to Cannich and beyond, and was housed wheresoever suited the Chief Constable (and the County Police Committee in terms of rental of premises). Sorry this has gone so far off-thread, but it has been fascvinating to see how many pieces have been put into the jigsaw,
Dave
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It's the way these things go Dave. Small pieces of info add to everyone's jigsaws.
I for one am finding the pieces of history of the police force that you are covering v. interesting ;)
Monica
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Message to Laidlaw Families.
Information is requested. re previously mentioned Robert Laidlaw and Elizabeth (Betsey) Irvine of Kirkton Roxburghshire.
This couple moved to Guelph Ontario circa 1829 and stayed with an Inglis
family in Canada also ex Roxburghshire. Robert & Betsey's only daughter
Betsey Irvine Laidlaw married her cousin Joseph Irvine Hobson.
Joseph Hobson became Sir Joseph Irvine Hobson for his Engineering achievements, one of which was the building of the first and longest underground rail tunnel in North America, going beneath the St Clair River circa 1898/99.
Any information on these families would be appreciated. Joseph Irvine Hobson's mother was one Margaret Inglis. Seeking her connection to the
Irvine family. She had 2 son's, Joseph Irvine Hobson and John Inglis Hobson.
Margaret Inglis's husband also Joseph Hobson was Lord of Mosburgh Manor
Eccelston Derbyshire, selling this property and sailing with Robert Laidlaw
to Canada to purchase lands in Ontario.
Joseph Hobson Snr born in 1808 inherited his English property from his father Joseph after the death of the latters brother William, whom died in 1779.
Some connection to Joseph Hobson Jagger whom broke the Bank of Monte
Carlo is related. This man was a distant cousin of Mick Jagger of the Rolling
Stones.
A Jean Inglis married a William Irvine of Manor Peebles in 1830 and will be
a possible cousin of Catherine Irvine and William Laidlaw of Innerleithen.
William Laidlaw is buried at Borthwick Peebles, and Catherine is buried in
New Zealand. Two of William Laidlaw's brother's also moved to Ontario Canada.
Any info on these families would be much appreciated.
Thanks to all.
Mike.
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Message to Laidlaw, Hart and Irvine Families of Roxburghshire.
Further correction to my previous note, Betsey Irvine of Guelph died in childbirth, or complications after the birth of her infant daughter Margaret Laidlaw, whom both died after October and in the year of 1835. Betsey Irvine
Laidlaw was the last and only surviving daughter of above Betsey Irvine.
Sadly Betsey Irvine's sister in law Rachel Beattie would also died 6 days after the birth of her daughter Rachel Isabella who luckily survived birth from 1839.
My query is to the Hart Families re my possible Grt Grt Grandfather's 1st
cousin William Irvine whom married Isabella Hart at Roberton in 1817.
Isabella Hart's sister Helen married David Laidlaw, possible brother of previous referred Robert Laidlaw of Roberton and Guelph. The latters parents being Robert Laidlaw and Margaret Grieve.
David and Helen Hart Laidlaw moved to Bovina, Delaware Co NY USA sometime
between 1841 and 1855. In 1841 were living at Whithope Roberton Roxburghshire. William Irvine and Isabella Irvine (Nee Hart ) were living at
the Schoolhouse Minto Roxburghshire up to 1851.
Isabella's and Helen's youngest sibling and brother, George Hart, was living at Highchesters Roberton in 1841 having married a Jane Pennycook after the death of his first wife Betsey Vair.
Any information or response to these notes would be much appreciated.
Mike
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CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS MESSAGE:
1. Betsey Irvine Laidlaw was the second last child and only surviving
daughter of Betsey Irvine.
2. Betsey Vair was NOT the first wife of George Hart of Highchesters Rox.
Seeking information on one Isabella Hart, Granddaughter of George Hart
and Helen Knox of Roberton Roxburghshire. Isabella died at Bovina Delaware
NY in 1897, wife of one Robert Jackson.
This Isabella Hart was the daughter of a George Hart and Agnes Kersall.
A George and Agnes Hart were living at Zorro Township Ontario as at 1851
also having a daughter Isabella Hart aged 12 years. All this family
were born in Scotland. The age of this George Hart matches that of the last
child of George Hart and Helen Knox, named George.
ERROR IN OTHER IRVINE FAMILY TREES:
RE JANE NICHOL ( NEE IRVINE ) AND WILLIAM NICHOL OF ROSSSHIRE.
I have noted at least 2 familiy Histories on line, connected to the Families
of Rachel Beattie and William Irvine mentioned herein. Both name Jane (Irvine) Nichol as a child of Rachel Beattie, and also give Rachel Beattie's parents as a John Beaty and Jane Robson. ( INCORRECT )
1. The above Jane Irvine Nichol is most likely NOT the daughter of referred Rachel Beattie. Most likely the daughter of William Irvine Snr of Milsington Rox, and adopted into her elder brother's family some time between 1819 and 1833. That being the family of William Irvine Jnr and Rachel Beattie.
2. The Rachel Beattie daughter of John Beaty and Jane Robson was born
in 1794. MY Rachel was buried at Contin Rossshire, having died on 17 Dec 1839 aged 38. She was born sometime in 1801. Rachel's Mother or Grandmother named either Mary or Elizabeth.
Please. Anyone doing these Trees, please contact me, as two Heads are
better than one in geting the information correct.
Lastly. The Mother of my Great Aunt Ellen Common died at Gault Ontario in 1862. She was Mary Common (Nee Potts).
Any information on the Common Family of Hobkirk Roxburghshire, or the Potts Family of either Cumbria or Northumberland England, would also be greatly
appreciated.
Mike Irvine.
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Jane Nicol Irvine named after Rachels mother, Jane Robson
William and Rachels first child Jane born in Mar 1818 and they married 21 months later on 15dec1819 in the parish of Roberton
Jane Irvine was born on 9 mar 1818 at Milsington,in Roxburghshire and was baptised at nearby Roberton on 16apr1818.The baptism record shows that jane was ' a natural Child',confirming that her parents were not married at that time.her fathers occupation was recorded as labourer.
Jane moved north to Ross-shire with her family and on 21jan1841 at Lochbroom,she married William Nicol,a shepherd who had been born in Caithness in 1808.In 1856 William and Jane immigrated to New Zealand,arriving at Port Chalmers,Dunedin,Otago on board the "Strathmore" on Oct 2nd 1856
Regards
Ross
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Ross
Thanks for your reply. I agree that the term " Natural Child " means a
child born out of Wedlock. However there is no documentary evidence
that Jane is Rachel Beattie's child. ie No birth Cert or Death Cert mentioning
Rachel Beattie.
Why was Jane's birth not registered by her mother, and the notation
" Illegitimate " marked on Parish records?
Can you tell me please, why my Rachel born in 1801, can be the daughter
of Jane Robson when her Rachel was born in 1794?
You state that Jane moved with the Irvine Family in 1841 to Loch Broom.
My records state that the last male child Adam Irvine was born in 1833
at Roberton Roxburghshire, and the next three children were all born in
Rossshire prior to 1841. ie 1835, 1837 and 1839.
Forgive me Ross, if this is a sensitive matter relating to your family, but
misleading information does not help other researchers, or opens
channels to other family connections.
Only to happy to have my theory proved wrong if the truth is
revealled, and the records are put right.
Keep in touch,
Kindest regards to a possible relation.
Mike
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Correction to previous message:
Above referred Adam Irvine was not the last male child, a younger brother
was born at Contin Rossshire in 1835.
Mike
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COMMON FAMILY OF HOBKIRK ROXBURGHSHIRE.
Dear Readers.
In reference to the book " Rulewater and it's People ", by
George Tancred, 1905. the author mentions a James Irvine marrying a Christian Common. Mr Tancred had possibly mistaken Christian Common whom married Simon Irvine ex Dumfries. It was James Irvine that married a Christian Telfer.
Andrew Comyn Irvine, also known as Sandy Irvine of Mt Everest, took the ancient name of Comyn ( Modern name of Common ), and is a direct descendant of Simon Irvine and Christian Common of Southdean Roxburghshire. Simon was a Manufacturer in Jedburgh and died prior to 1851,
after which Christian administered the business as his widow.
Simon Irvine was a possible uncle or cousin of one Simon Rae ex Dumfries
whom married my Great Aunt Mary Irvine in Rossshire. Also related to the
Simon Beattie's ex Dumfries. As mentioned previously, Mary's brother William
Irvine married Ellen Common also in Rossshire.
Simon was also a close descendans of the Little, Beattie and Murray Famiies
of Dumfries, and Elizabeth Little Irvine Murray, sister of Gen Sir John Irvine Murray, the latter, niece and nephew of Major Gen Sir Archibald Irvine.
Any Families researching the above names in Dumfries or Roxburghshire, I
would love to hear from.
Also any associations to Lieut Col Archibald Irvine born at Westerkirk Eskdale in 1797 and died at Highgate London on the 29th Dec 1849. This man's father
farmed at Hawcleugh Farm Roxburghshire. In 1835 Archie Irvine named here,
married a Marianne Elizabeth Sparks in Allahabad Uttar Pradesh India.
Many thanks to readers. Help needed to connect the links.
Mike
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Hello Irvinemg
I have some information on the Inglis family that you mention in post #34. Margaret Inglis, wife of Joseph Hobson sr,, is the daughter of John Inglis and Margaret Lockie. John was born in 1786 in Roxburghshire. Margaret was born in Kelso in 1789. They lived in Bowden where several children were born. The family emigrated to the Guelph area of Upper Canada in 1827. They were neighbours of the Laidlaws and Hobsons in Paisley Block near Guelph.
You mention several successful descendants of these families. William A. Paterson was a grandson of John Inglis. William was a successful manufacturer of carriages in Flint Michigan. He switched to automobiles and eventually sold out to Buick in 1923. He was the mayor of Flint for a while.
I have no information about the connection of the Inglis family with the Irvine family, but perhaps these dates and places will help.
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Hi Jstaffor
Many thanks for replying.
I did find Margaret Lockie along the line. I have her down as also being born in
1786. She died aged 89yrs on the 1. June 1875. Not confirmed but wonder if
she was a daughter of John Lockie and Margaret Pittillo, their Margaret
christened on 14 June 1789 at Ednam Roxburghshire.
John Inglis I have as being born in 1786 at Ancrum, son of James Inglis. John Inglis died at Guelph on the 1 Aug 1862 aged 76yrs.
I am currently looking for a Jane Paterson who married a John Archibald Irvine
and settled in Victoria Australia. Maybe related somewhere to your William
Paterson. The families so large and well entwined.
Will keep searching. Many thanks again for your message.
Regards
Mike
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Hello Mike
We seem to have the same Margaret Lockie but with a minor discrepancy. The inscription on her gravestone and the Ontario vital records both list her date of death as 11 June 1878.
I also have unconfirmed notes that her parents were John Lockie and Margaret Pittillo.
The Inglis, Hobson and Laidlaw families were all wealthy and successful farmers in the Paisley Block near Guelph. I searched for the Irvine name among their neighbours but found none.
Nor can I help you with the Jane Patterson-John Archibald Irvine connection but the forenames gave me pause. Jane Inglis, daughter of John Inglis/Margaret Lockie, married Archibald Patterson and their son, William, was the automobile manufacturer in Flint MI.
Cheers
Jim
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Hi Jim
Many thanks for searching for the Irvines'. I haven't had much luck either,
but did read somewhere, an article giving reference to a Thomas Irvine of the Paisley Block that married a girl Tribe.
Many of the Irvine's in Ontario came from Northern Ireland, but having
said that, there were inter marriages with people from Scotland. Even
a Grt Aunt of mine, after leaving Scotland married a Northern Irishman.
Maybe with changing circumstances in Scotland, some landowners that
had land in Ireland gave work to Scottish Shepherd's etc, then some
moving onto Canada.
There was a Thomas Irvine born in 1841 at Weston Ontario that moved to
Iowa in 1860 entering the Timber business and did very well. This man
died at St Paul MI in 1930.
In reference to the Jane Paterson and John Irvine. Jane had a sister Helen
that married a William Laidlaw. Their son, also William Laidlaw settled at
Warranbrool Victoria Australia as did my Grt Uncle William Irvine, as well
as a brother of Major Gen Ryall that married Elizabeth Murray referred to
previously.
Said Col ?? Ryall mentioned in "Rulewater and It's People", had died in 1894
at Hawthorn Victoria Australia, and had been a Major General, not a Colonel,
at the time of Tancred's book being published.
Ryall had no children by Elizabeth Little Irvine Murray, as she may have been a casualty of the Cawnpore and Jhansi Massacre's in India around 1857. Ryall married his third wife in 1859, and in memory of his second wife, gave his 4th son, the name of Irvine Murray Ryall.
With the Inglis family, you mentioned that they moved to Ontario in 1827.
Do you have any background info on their employment in Scotland, and
why they moved to Canada?
I also noted a Robert Irvine that married a Barbara Lockie at Melrose in 1830,
but haven't found any family connections as yet.
Sorry for deviating, re the Ryall Family info , but maybe out of these notes,
others may help us both in our research.
Cheers for now.
Mike
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Hello Mike
You are right, we are not on topic. Before we go I should add to a statement that you and I have both made and that may be incorrect The Ontario vital record of Margaret Lockie's death lists her place of birth as Kelso, Roxburghshire. The informant is listed as John Hobson and we know him to be a reputable and meticulous person. So I suspect that she was born in Kelso which eliminates Margaret Pittilla as her mother. But you never know . . .
I would like to carry on this conversation in another folder within RootsChat. Perhaps you or I could start a new one within the Roxburghshire forum with a title that encompasses all of these families: Irvine,Laidlaw, Inglis, Lockie, Boyd. What do you think?
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Jim. It's ok with me if you want to open a folder in the Roxburgh site. I guess people would look there first. I have looked in this section but haven't found much really.
If you open a folder I would come in with any info, not that I have much to
offer. I have concentrated mainly on the Irvine name and made links to others
on the way.
Don't be too concerned about putting general information, or assumptions
out there. Only as long as we note as "possible" or "unconfirmed" in the
reference to these ancestors. I am sure that Mr Hobson agrees that mentioning possibilities, opens up avenues.
I do get abit concerned when certain records and trees name people without
any notations or solid proof. However I am sure that I think that my info is
correct, and have been proven wrong, and will be in the future.
Cheers
Mike
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Dear readers. The following information I have located and hope that this
will give bring leads on the Family of Irving/Irvine of Westerkirk Dumfries as
mentioned in " Rulewater and It's People ".
REV ANDREW IRVINE. BA MA.
Possibly born at Westerkirk Dumfries between 1785-1800.
Andrew was Educated at Emmanuel College Cambridge receiving his
Bachelors Degree in 1823, then his MA, before becoming an Anglican Minister and assistant Preacher at the Temple London.
While in London he met his wife to be, Elizabeth Rawlinson (Rowlandson/Rollinson) a possible sister of Sir Christopher Rawlinson Knt Bl,
whom became Chief Justice of Madras from 1850 to 1859.
Elizabeth and Christopher where the children of one John Rawlinson of
Upper Clatford and Alresford Hampshire a descendant of Thomas Rollinson
and Martha Lock of Old Croyden Kent.
After being an assistant preacher, Andrew Irvine became the Chaplain of the
Tower of London. He was a Master of the Charter School House before taking
the position as Vicar of St Margaret's College Leicester in 1830.
Elizabeth Rawlinson, his wife, was possibly born in 1803 in London, and died
there on the 18th July 1867. Out living her husband by 20 years.
The couple had a family of at least 5 children. The youngest found to date, was
Octavius Butler Irvine b 1836 and died at Madras India on 14th May1880.
Octavius married his 1st cousin Marianne Irvine, daughter of Lt Col Archibald
Irvine of Westerkirk Dumfries, in 1863, possibly at St Nicholas Church Bathampton Somerset, while being on 2 1/2 years medical leave from the
Indian Civil Service. He would later become a Judge of the High Court Madras.
Octavius's twin brother, the Rev John Irvine. MA, would become the Rector of
St. Mary's College Colchester.
Marianne Irvine, wife of Octavius, was the daughter of Marianne Elizabeth Sparks Shakespear, she being the Grand daughter of William Makepeace
Thackeray (Novelist), a good friend of John Aitken Carlyle, brother of the
famous Scot, Thomas Carlyle.
John Carlyle lived at Alresford Hamphire as did John Rawlinson mentioned previously.
Letters by Thomas Carlyle to and from his brother, and his wife Jane Baillie Welsh in 1850 while she was visiting John Carlyle in Hamphshire, mention Lt Col Henry Rawlinson, and also Marianne (Shakespear) Irvine's Grandfather William Thackeray. Henry Rawlinson was a cousin of Elizabeth and Christopher
Rawlinson of Alresford.
Jane Baillie Welsh Carlyle was a student of the famous preacher Edward Irving
of Annan Dumfries, also a very good friend of Thomas Carlyle, and I am wondering if Andrew Irvine was Edward's brother.
Andrew Irvine (Rev), was a very energetic man and had done alot for the poor
of Leicester. On at least one occasion he had corresponded with Lord Melborne and also Charles Darwin.
He remained as Rector of St Margaret's before becoming ill. Possibly
seeking medical attention in London, he sadly died on the 4th Dec 1847 in the
house of his brother Lt Col Irvine at Hyde Park Street London.
Lt Col Archibald Irvine ( Director of Works for the Admiralty ) would follow his brother only 2 years later after having a riding accident and dying in December of 1849. His wife Marianne Shakespear was a sister of Augusta Ludlow ( Laidlaw?) Shakespear, wife of Gen Sir John Low, and having a son Major Irvine Low.
Any further information on the family names would be greatly met.
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Dear readers. The following info is supplied for families researching the
Shakespear and Thackeray Trees.
The previous note re Elizabeth Rawlinson and Andrew Irvine: Elizabeth was
indeed the daughter of John Rawlinson and his wife Felicia Watson. Refer
National Biographies re Sir Christopher Rawlinson son of John Rawlinson and
Felicia Watson.
Elizabeth and the Rev Andrew Irvine named their oldest daughter Isabella
Felicia Irvine born in London in 1826.
Another daughter named Louisa Catherine Irvine born circa 1832/34 at Leicester, married a cousin thru her Aunt Marianne Shakespear wife of Lt Col Archie Irvine.
Louisa married on either the 9th or 10th Aug 1860 at Brompton London
the Rev Francis St John Thackeray, son of Francis Thackeray and his wife, also a Marianne Shakespear.
Francis St John Thackeray was the older brother of Col Sir Edward Talbot
Thackeray VC KCB of the Bengal Lancers.
The family of Francis St John Thackeray and Louisa Irvine were born at
Eton Buckinghamshire.
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The following info is supplied as a correction to that given regarding the direct
descendants of Elizabeth Rawlinson-Irvine.
I stated that her descendants were that of Thomas Rollinson and Martha Lock.
This couple were the relatives of the Rawlinson Family of Chadlington Oxfordshire, while Elizabeth is a descendant of the Rawlinson family of
Combe House Alresford Hampshire. There will be connections between the two
families both members of the East India Company but the connection is not
known at this time.
I have, and supply the Combe House family as accurate as I can give.
RAWLINSON FAMILY OF COMBE HOUSE ALRESFORD HANTS
1. John Rawlinson m Eleanor Whistler ( Dau of Henry Whistler 1594-1661 )
2. ....................................?
3 ....................................?
4. Christopher Rawlinson
5 John Rawlinson
6 John Rawlinson m Felicia Watson ( Dau of Thomas Watson of Hadley
Hall Middlesex ENG )
6/1 Elizabeth Rawlinson b circa 1802/4 m Rev Andrew Irvine of Leicester
6/2 Christopher Rawlinson ( Sir ) b 10 July1806 d 28 Mar 1888
married Georgina Maria Radclyffe-Sidebottom
( Dau of Alexander Radclyffe-Sidebottom and Elizabeth Helm )
6/3 Felicia Rawlinson b circa 1808 d 1879 m William Bannerman
( Son of Rev James Patrick Bannerman & Mary Turing of Forglen
Banffshire Scotland )
6/4 William Edward Rawlinson b circa 1810 d 1848 Capt 1st Bombay Fusiliers
married Jane Stringer b 1812
( Dau of Miles Stringer & Jane Clarke of Efflington Hill Surrey )
6/5 George Rawlinson ( Rev ) ??
6/6 Thomas Rawlinson ( Barrister )
6/7 Marianne Rawlinson b circa 1817
For anyone interested in Football. A son of Sir Christopher Rawlinson mentioned above, named John Frederick Peel Rawlinson 1860-1926, was an FA cup winner and had one cap as Goalkeeper for England.
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Seeking the family of one Robert Irvine of Leicester.
As referred to previously, Andrew Irvine lived at Leicester between 1830 and
1849, and it was in this period that a Robert Irvine was a Draper in Leicester.
Robert Irvine died in 1843 and was the son of a Mr Irvine that was, at the time, possibly employed at Wheatcroft Farm near Castle Douglas in Kirkcubright.
One Simon Irvine was also in the clothing industry having a hosiery business
at Jedburgh Roxburghshire. Simon's parents were Archie Irvine and Betsey
Little. His Grandfather was a John Irvine and his mother's parents were
Simon Little and Betsey Brown of Downiegill Westerkirk in Dumfries.
If I am correct, Betsey Little's sister Margaret married Robert Irvine son of
Robert Irvine and Janet Telfer. Robert and Margaret Little-Irvine are buried at
Howden New Crailing Roxburghshire.
Any connections to the descendants of Robert Irvine and Elizabeth Telfer of
Roxburghshire that married into the Harley family, and also the Clouston families of Shetland/Orkney that settled in Otago New Zealand is also sought.
Any information on the Little families that lived in Hampshire during the same time frame would be much appreciated.
Many thanks
Mike
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These any of yours?? Portsmouth Hampshire
1851 H0107/1658 folio 648 page 26 Portsmouth Hampshire
Nolli? Lane
Hugh Little age 41 late soldier Ireland
Margaret age 41 Ireland
Rachael dau age 18 Laundry Maid Jersey
Henry son age 15 Lab Kildare Ireland
Emma dau age 13 Dressmaker County Clare Ireland
Next Page
William Little age 7 shoemaker? Roscommin ireland
Hugh son age 5 Fort of George Scotland
Henry Brown lodger age 35 Soldier Wrexford ireland
Margaret Brown age 30 Dressmaker Ireland
John son age 5 Toronto Canada
Eliza dau age 4 new London Canada
Margaret dau age 1 month Hants
1851 H0107/ 2527 folio 962 page 6 st helier jersey Channel islands
transcribed pauper idiot but says boarder there are a few boarders and the others say pauper lunatic or pauper idiot.
General hospital and workhouse
Richard Little age 31 boarder Annuitant Botley hampshire
Pam
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Dear Pam. Nice to hear from you again.
The last bit of your message re "pauper idiot", I can relate too, if you know what I mean.
As far as I know, none of the Little's were from Ireland or sodders in any army
over there.
Most of my Little's were based in Cumberland and moved up to Dumfries marrying into the Beattie families.
Will certainly have a close look at your info and let you know what I find.
I wish you and your team a happy St Patrick's day while I sip on a dram
of Jamiesons while typing this.
Slainte Mhath
Mike
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Rawlinson Family- Addition & amendment.
1. For the family of John Rawlinson and Felicia Watson, a son named Henry
Rawlinson born in 1813 to be added. Henry was a curate at Symondsbury in
Dorset and intrumental in founding the little church of St Peter's Eype
Symondsbury in 1864. Henry Rawlinson is buried in this graveyard, but I don't
have any particulars. ( Not to be mistaken for Sir Henry Rawlinson or Canon
George Rawlinson of Canturbury- The Chadlington Oxford Family )
2. Amend. William Edward Rawlinson was born in 1808. Capt in Indian Army
& European Regt Dept. He also became Judge Advocate General of the
Bombay Army. ( Refer list of Carthusians 1800-1879 )
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Hello, fellow researchers - This is my first posting on Rootschat.
I have a William Irvine who had something of a mystery about him.
He married Mary Ritchey in Ontario in 1883. The official record of their marriage gives his age as 20 ( birth year - 1863), birthplace as Ireland, parents "unknown".
Less than 10 years later, on another document he gives his birth year as 1851 and birthplace as Quebec. He was well regarded in his community of the Orangeville, Shelburne area as a cabinetmaker. William was an active Mason and an accomplished piper. He travelled in Canada and the US training Masonic and other pipe bands.
The story he told to the family was that he was a Highland Scot. His father , or perhaps his grandfather, had fallen in love with a young woman of whom his family did not approve. So they ran away, first to Ireland and then to Canada.
That could be a cover story for an illegitimate child who was born in Ireland and had a Scottish Irvine for his father.
To add to this mystery, in the 1920's a package arrived from the UK. The package contained several genealogical charts , at least one was adorned with holly leaves. According to witnesses there was a signet ring and other small items in the package. The gist of the letter was that the writer wished to heal some schism in the family. This overture was rejected and the contents of the package were thrown in the fire. He was heard to say things along the lines of " I wasn't good enough for them then", which made some in the family suspect that he was either born out of wedlock or given up for adoption. Whatever was in the letter affected him very deeply and he would never speak of it.
I would be very grateful for any information about an illegitimate or orphaned Irvine boy who might have been sent to Canada to be fostered or information about what this schism might have been.
I would be glad to share all the information I have on Irvines in Canada.
Thank-you for reading my posting.
The best of luck with your research,
Elizabeth
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Mike Irvine:
I am a descendent of William Nichol and Jane Irvine and if you are still looking for details regarding them I may be able to assist you.
Stephen
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Hello Mike,
Not sure if you are still following this thread - I have only just come across it.
Going back to your initial query - I am a direct descendant of William Campbell/Elizabeth Irvine.
James Campbell - Sov Piper was my gt gt uncle, his brother William my gt grandfather.
I have various bits and pieces of info which may help with gaps.
Drew Campbell
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Drew:
I have a photo of Elizabeth's mother's gravestone available. If you would like a copy contact details are available on the attachment to this message.
stephenhugh
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My name is Peggy Powell of Ft. Lauderdale FL. I was intrigued by the familiar names we share in the family genealogy. I have a Marianne Elizabeth (nee) Hodgson Shakespear in my line, Lady Augusta Low of Clatto, Scotland and the famous Campbell family of The Indian Army as well as the Thackerays.
A Henry Archibald Irvine was the executor of Marianne Shakespear's will in 1887. Do you know if he might be a connection of Lt. Col. Archibald Irvine? Archibald Irvine was mentioned in my ancestor's (William Brumell) will. William served in India with Archibald Irvine, Sir John Low - Augusta Low's father and the Campbells.
Thank you.
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The Jane STRINGER (b.13 Apr 1812) who married William Edward RAWLINSON was the daughter of Miles STRINGER (d.1839) of the manor of Effingham East Court, also called Effingham Hill, in Surrey, England, and Jane STEWARD (not Jane CLARK). Miles STRINGER bought Effingham East Court, from the Crown, in 1813, and his daughter Jane was born in London, where Miles formerly lived, at Peckham. Jane STEWARD, Jane STRINGER's mother, was a sister of one of my great-great-grandfathers, James STEWARD.
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Having just discovered a photograph from "illinois grove cemetery" in marshall county, iowa of the headstone for my "william j h irvine" born 18 nov 1830 in scotland, and deceased in 1925 I have found information that a william irvine born on this same date has died and is buried in "rupanyup cemetery' in victoria, australia. Adding to the confusion, there are two listings of the same person being born on the same date to william irvine and rachel beattie in two different locations in scotland. can someone possibly shed some light? any help is much appreciated...
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Both of the 1830 entries were submitted to the Latter Day Saints site by members, so you must treat them as secondary sources. What you need to do now is to check the original entries from the old parish records, there may have been mistakes made by the submitters.
Lodger
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Pasca56
I have direct, from Grt Grandfather's Bible all the family of William Irvine
and Rachel Beattie giving their dates and places of birth.
If I am correct, the IGI only gives the christianings for 2 or 3 of the family
when they lived at Roberton.
Grt Grandfather's brother William was born on the 18 Nov 1830 at
Deanburnhaugh Cottage opposite Milsington Farm. Grt Grt
Grandfather worked for Mr John Scott, until the latter's death in 1829, but
remained there until Mr Charles Scott, ( Sir Walter Scott's nephew ) took
over the lease of Milsington on Whitsunday of 1832.
The family were still at Deanburnhaugh when the next boy, Adam, was born
on the 8 May 1833. The remaining 3 of the family were all born in Rossshire.
Grt Uncle William's tombstone is in bad repair and lies in the Rupanyup cemetery in Victoria Australia
Grt Grt Grandfather William Irvine died on the 7th Dec 1865 and is buried
at Geraldine in New Zealand.
Descendants of another William Irvine that married also at Roberton 2 years earlier in 1817 moved to the USA. I have had communication with this man's Grt Grt Nephew.
Hope this information clears any confusion.
Mike Irvine
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Hello do you have any details on John Irvine son of Robert Irvine and Jenet Telfer.
The details on the IGI Index give John born ?Christening date 21 Nov. 1776
Research given to us has John Irvine marrying Agnes/Anne Laurie/Lawrie.
My interest is their son John marrying Margaret Steedman and living in St Cuthberts Edinburgh we have quite alot of info on this family ,but nothing back further, the granddaughter of John and Margaret come to Australia.
Thanks Cathleen
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A little curious as to why Catherine named herself as McDonald in the
records, wonder if they were separated, ie marriage breakup.
It is quite common for married women to turn up in the census under their maiden names. A married woman in Scotland does not legally change her surname; the use of her husband's name is a convention that has become increasingly common since the early 19th century. In legal documents to this day, Jeanie Bloggs, wife of John Smith, for instance, would be named as 'Jeanie Bloggs or Smith', never 'Jeanie Smith'. This is why you mostly get the mother's full name (if you get a name at all) in a baptism record, and the deaths of married women in Scotland are indexed under both their maiden and their married surnames.
Could be Navy. Wasn't the old term Navvy used for a Labourer ?
Yes. It is an abbreviation of 'navigator' because it was first applied to the labourers who built the canal network. There are still several canals in England called this or that 'Navigation'.
See http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=37509442
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Cathleen. I can't help you very much, but a Greg Irvine posted an inquery on Genforum dated 16 Oct 1999 requesting info on a John Irvine born 1817 Edinburgh and marrying a Janet/Jessie Morton in 1852 at Edinburgh. They immigrated to Australia 1852/53. Supposed parents of John Irvine, a John Irvine and his wife a Seedman or Steedman. Unfortunately Greg Irvine didn't leave an email or contact address.
Go to Genforum under surname Irvine and post an inquery. Hope this helps.
Regards Mike
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James and William Campbell, Bagpipers to Queen Victoria. Seeking information
on the families of above. James Campbell of Kintail Head Piper to the Queen from 1881 to 1910. James nephew William Campbell served as Piper 1891 to 1901.
James Campbell born Kintail Scotland 1853
William Campbell born Kiltarilty Scotland 1872.
Many thanks. Mike
Lost touch with you Mike and this thread is 7 years old,but there is more info on the net now about
William Campbell piper to Queen Victoria for anyone who is still searching.
Here are a few links,the first one has a photo of William Campbell at the bottom of the page.
http://www.birthofaregiment.com/birth-of-a-regiment/background/background/traditions/
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=85829
Best Wishes
Stewart
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The Jane STRINGER (b.13 Apr 1812) who married William Edward RAWLINSON was the daughter of Miles STRINGER (d.1839) of the manor of Effingham East Court, also called Effingham Hill, in Surrey, England, and Jane STEWARD (not Jane CLARK). Miles STRINGER bought Effingham East Court, from the Crown, in 1813, and his daughter Jane was born in London, where Miles formerly lived, at Peckham. Jane STEWARD, Jane STRINGER's mother, was a sister of one of my great-great-grandfathers, James STEWARD.
I am researching Miles Stringer in Effingham, can you help please with information about Jane?