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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Aberdeenshire => Scotland => Aberdeenshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: roycymru on Sunday 02 December 07 20:47 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone help. I am trying to find more information on the parents of Isabella Clark born 22 Jan 1831 in Lonmay. They are James Clark born abt 1800 in Lonmay and Isabella Lawrance b.abt 1807-1811 in Lonmay. I am looking for DOB, marriage dates, DOD, but my searches have proved fruitless. Thanks
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hi pal,
james clark married isabel laurence 21/4/1827 lonmay
Joe
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Hi,
Two possible births for James; one in 1799 - father James, and another 1800 - father William. Think it'll need to be the death certificate (or naming patterns) that'll help you out.
No births/christenings for an Isabella/Isabel Laurence/Lawrence in Lonmay at that time. However, there are several other children with the same surname, all to father Alexander.
I can't understand why the mother's name wasn't recorded! >:(
Hope this helps.
hume24
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hi pal,
1841 census- lonmay
james...age 40..miller
isabella...age 30
james...age 13
john...age 12
isabella...age 10
george...age 10
helenora...age 8
jane...age 6
joseph...age 4
william...age 4
rebecca...age 2
mary..age 9 months
rebecca lawrence...age 18
1851 census- mill of cremonmogate, lonmay
james...age 51...corn miller
isabella...age 44
eleanor...age 17
jane..age 15
james...age 13
joseph...age 13
rebecca...age 11
mary..age 9
robert...age 5
christian...age 2...born 26/8/1848
Joe
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good news pal,
they both made it past 1855!!
1861 census- mill of cremonmogate
james...age 61...miller & farmer
isabella...age 54
joseph...age 23...miller
isabella...age 21...domestic servant
christian...age 12
ellenora...age 8...grand-daughter
Joe
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hi pal,
cannot see them in 1871 so you can search for a death cert for them both between 1861-1871.
1871 census- house on dumpston(6), longside
joseph...age 31..miller
Joe
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hi pal,
rebecca laurence christened 1/5/1820, lonmay, daughter of john.
Joe
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hi pal,
a wee link
www.geograph.org.uk/photo/313731
Joe
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Hello Roy,
Lots of great information has been provided but, as you apparently hadn't found the marriage, I hope you don't mind if I make a couple of suggestions.
The search on SP is very unforgiving so it's a good idea to use wildcards. For instance - Clark might appear as (say) Clarke; James as Jas; Isabella as Isobel, Isabel etc; Lawrance as Lawrence, Laurence etc ...
So a search for Clark*, Ja*s, La*r*nce, Is*bel* is a good starting point. And it gets only one match ...
But it's always worth checking out the IGI first - not only is it free but they combine many (though not all) possible spellings. So, even if you search for a marriage of James CLARK & Isabella LAWRANCE, the right one comes up:
James CLARK & Isabel LAURANCE, 21 Apr 1827, Lonmay
There's also a submitted entry for the marriage (though it has the wrong date) and the death of James; the death is given as 20 Mar 1872 which might be a good pointer.
A search in the IGI for children of James & Isabel (James Clark in the father boxes, Isabel Laurance in the mother boxes, select region British Isles) brings up only Christian CLARK b 26 Aug, bap 26 Sep 1848, Lonmay. But if you then click on the batch number and try various things e.g. just putting James Clark in the father boxes, you get a whole long list of children of James (obviously mothers were irrelevant!) as follows:
*James CLARK bap 22 Feb 1828
*John CLARK bap 20 Jun 1829
*Isabella CLARK bap 23 Feb 1831
*Elenora CLARK bap 9 Mar 1834
*Jean CLARK bap 5 Oct 1835
*Joseph CLARK bap 11 Jun 1837
*William CLARK bap 11 Jun 1837
*Rebecca CLARK bap 2 Dec 1838
*Mary CLARK bap 20 Sep 1840
*Robert CLARK bap 31 Aug 1845
*Christian CLARK b 26 Aug, bap 26 Sep 1848
*Margaret Forbes CLARK b 4 Feb, bap 5 Oct 1850
And, of course, all of the Aberdeen-shire 1841 census and most of the 1851 are on FreeCEN.
Best regards,
JAP
PS: A free search on SP finds that a James CLARK age 72 died in 1872 - don't know what district (not Lonmay)
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Re Joe's find of Rebecca LAURANCE bap 1820, father John (presumably the 18yo Rebecca with 'our' CLARK family in 1841).
Looking at the IGI for other LAURANCE children in Lonmay with father John, and comparing the names with those in Lonmay in FreeCEN, it is probably the LAURANCE family in the 1841 at Craigellie, Lonmay - John not there but family has Eleonora 54, George 25, Eleonora 23, Jean 20, Robert 17, Christian 12.
The following extracted marriage in the IGI possibly is the relevant one:
John LAURANCE m Eleonora SHAND, 21 Sep 1806, Rathen
1851 has, at Nether Tyahesnook Lonmay, George 40 b Rathen (he's in the IGI, b 1811, mother's name actually listed!), mother Eleanora S 65 b Rathen, sister Eleanor 38, sister Jean 28, brother Robert 27, servant (presumably sister) Christian 23 all b Lonmay.
John LAURENCE & Eleonora SHAND had (all extracted entries):
In Rathen
*Isabel LAURENCE bap 8 Jan 1807
*William LAURENCE bap 4 Mar 1810
*George LAWRENCE bap 25 Dec 1811
- George LAWRENCE also listed in Rathen as bap 5 Jan 1812
*Eleanor LAWRENCE bap 2 Nov 1813
- also listed in Lonmay as Helenora LAURANCE bap 22 Nov 1813
*John LAWRENCE bap 1815
*Joseph LAWRENCE bap 4 Jul 1815
- also listed in Lonmay as Joseph LAURANCE, same date
In Lonmay (mother's name not listed)
(*Helenora LAURANCE bap 22 Nov 1813 - see above)
(*Joseph LAURANCE bap 4 Jul 1815 - see above)
*Mary LAURANCE bap 18 Jun 1817
*Rebecca LAURANCE bap 1 May 1820
*Jean LAURANCE bap 20 Apr 1822
*Robert LAURANCE bap 23 Mar 1824
*Elizabeth LAURANCE bap 18 Mar 1826
*Christian LAURANCE bap 26 Mar 1828
All this suggests that 'our' Isabella (LAURANCE) CLARK might be a daughter of John & Eleonora, and thus sister of Rebecca LAURANCE (18 in the 1841 in the CLARK household).
JAP
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Eleanora SHAND probably the following (extracted entry in the IGI):
Eleanora SHAND, bap 25 Dec 1785, Rathen, father Willm. SHAND (mother's name not listed).
There are a number of possible siblings in the batch with father's name William SHAND (from 1781 to 1797) - some list mother as Isabel BRUCE.
The IGI has the following extracted entry:
William SHAND m Isobel BRUCE, 7 Jul 1778, Rathen
Have fun ...
JAP
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Thanks again to everyone who has fed back/contributed. I don't know how I would manage without all your help. This has certainly kick started investigating this line of the tree again and JAP your search hints sound excellent I will start adopting these techniques to help me with future searches.
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Hi
I have downloaded the Death Certificate for John Clark and you were spot on (yet again!). Died 20 Mar 1872 from Chronic Bronchitis, at New Pitsligo, Aberdeen. Wife is Isabella Laurance (which ties up nicely with the Laurances you have found rather than Lawrence). His father was James Clark Crofter and Mother Jane Robertson. His son in law George Smith was present.
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Roy, don't get hung up on minor spelling variations - with a name like this you can almost guarantee that you will find it variously spelled as Lawrence, Laurence, Lawrance and Laurance (at least!). As you can see above, you get three of those spellings (Laurence, Laurance and Lawrence) in the baptisms of children of James L & Eleonora SHAND. Eleonora's name is also variably spelled - Eleonora at marriage and, at Rathen baptisms, once as Eleanora, once as Elea. and the rest as Eleanor.
There is an LDS submission in the IGI for the marriage of James CLARK & Jane ROBERTSON as 8 Jan 1797 Lonmay.
And submitted entries for children of the couple.
James & Jane seem to be in the 1841 census at Strathstodley, Lonmay - James 74 Farmer, Jane 76, George 37, Mary 26. They don't seem to be in the 1851 though George CLARK 47 Farmer of 27 acres with 1 Lab and wife Mary 36 are (place given as Strathstooley).
Re informant, son-in-law George SMITH, the IGI has an extracted entry for a marriage of George SMITH & Rebecca CLARK in 1864 in Lonmay.
A search on SP for a death as follows:
LA*R*NCE
El*
Other surname: SHAND
gets just one hit.
Refining the parameters finds:
Elleanora LAWRANCE, other surname SHAND, died 1857, age 71, Lonmay
JAP
PS: I think we could just about put together a genealogy of Lonmay :D
PPS: I just Googled for Lonmay - only to find that is the home of the ancestors of Elvis PRESLEY ::)
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Hi JAP
You have been as invaluable as ever. I think you really should take this up professionally as you definitely have a knack for it. It does look like my ancestors did take over Lonmay! As Lonmay seems such a close community it would be amazing if there was some link somewhere to Elvis Presley. I'll have to dig out my blue suede shoes!
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Hi. I am new to this site and found you be accident while searching for my ancestors in Scotland. I nearly fell off my chair when I read this post because I am searching for the Lawrences and have got back as far as RATHEN.
John Laurance is my Great, Great, Great, Great, Grandfather and he married Eleanora Shand in 1806 in Rathen. Eleanora was born/baptised 25/12/1785 - father William Shand.
I found birth/baptism entry for Joseph Lawrence on 4th July 1815 (my G.G.G. Grandfather) and also found entry (on one certificate) for George 1811, Eleanor 1813 and John (no date), also another entry for Isabel Laurence 1807.
I tried searching the Census records and found one for 1851 but it is for George Lawrance (head) can't see age, Eleanora Lawrance, (Mother), Widowed, age 65, and Eleanor Lawrance (sister), unmarried, age 38. This would mean that Eleanoras husband (John) must have died previous to this date. All the ages add up so I thought I was onto a winner... BUT you have found another 1851 Census that has George, Eleanora, Eleanor, Jean ?, Robert ? (don't have Jean and Roberts birth/baptism entries, do you have them?) and a servant. Now i am confused! is my find for 1851 the wrong one? Also, what happened to 'John' who appeared on the 'bulk' baptism certificate with George and Eleanor?
I am completely hooked on this and can't wait for replies!!!
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Me again... what's an IGI?
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The IGI is the Mormons website found at www.familysearch.org.
Regards, Steve
Welcome to Rootschat :O)
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Thanks. I also found IGI is International Genealogical Index (is that what you meant?).
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Hi
Sometimes it does seem a smaller world than you think! I am a bit rusty on this side of my family as in recent months I have been concentrating on my Welsh side! John Laurance and Eleonora Shand is as far back as I have managed to trace on this particular branch. The only reference I have for John Laurance and Eleonora Shand marrying is that kindly found by JAP on the IGI site (otherwise known as familysearch.org, the "Mormon" site, Church of the later day saints. Yes, it is confusing!). Therefore it is very nice to have some independent confirmation that they actually did exist and got married (IGI references are quite often unsubstantiated and have just been entered by contributors). If you have more details that go back further than this I would be delighted to have them. Also if you have specific references for the marriage of John and Eleanora (so I can order) or a copy you can E-Mail me that would also be great.
I don't think there is anything wrong with your 1851 census records as my Elenora in 1851 (Helenora in 1841!) is Elenora Clark the daughter of Isabella Clark (ne: Laurance), and Granddaughter of Eleonora Shand. The specific references for Isabell (Laurence), her husband James Clark and their many children (Elenora, George, etc.). 1851 reference is Parish: Lonmay; ED:2; Line 10, Year 1851. 1841 reference is Parish: Lonmay; ED:4, Year 1841).
Your 1851 search ties up exactly with what JAP found on Freecen
"1851 has, at Nether Tyahesnook Lonmay, George 40 b. Rathen (he's in the IGI, b 1811, mother's name actually listed!), mother Eleanora S 65 b Rathen, sister Eleanor 38, sister Jean 28, brother Robert 27, servant (presumably sister) Christian 23 all b Lonmay."
and JAP also found an earlier entry in the 1841 Census (I wouldn't woory too much about some of the age discrepancies between 1841 and 1851, discrepancies are common and the 1841 ages tend to be more inaccurate):
Piece: SCT1841/219 Place: Lonmay -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 3
Civil Parish: Lonmay Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 3 Page: 5
Address: Craigellie
LAURANCE George M 25 Agriculture Aberdeenshire
LAURANCE Eleonora F 54 Aberdeenshire
LAURANCE Eleonora F 23 Aberdeenshire
LAURANCE Jean F 20 Aberdeenshire
LAURANCE Robert M 17 Aberdeenshire
LAURANCE Christian F 12 Aberdeenshire
PETERKIN Alexander M 18 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire
FRASER Alexander M 13 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire
SHAND John M 20 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire
LEDINGHAM John M 42 Bookseller Outside Census County (1841
As I said I am a bit rusty on this side of the family at present, but hopefully I have got the right end of the stick and I hope this clarifies things for you.
As JAP says Freecen has the Lonmay 1841 and 1851 Census returns for Lonmay so if you go to http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl enter laurance (or variations of this) as Surname, select Year as 1841 or 1851 and choose Census place as Lonmay and finally click on Find it will bring up all the Laurences it can find on the Census for those years. You may find members of the family you were unaware of!
My branch is Eleonora Shand + John Laurance to Isabella Laurance + James Clark to Isabella Clark + Alexander Murray etc. If this branch of the tree is of any use to you I can send you more details
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Hi
Just had a thought re the missing Jean ?, Robert ? and a servant from your 1851 census search. Are your searches of the actual records (JAP's, FreeCen and IGI searches will be of transcribed records). If so are the entries you have found at the bottom of the census page? If so, and you click onto the next page you might find your missing entries there?? I have missed entries myself like this before so thought it worth asking.
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Hi, thanks for all the info... i will be checking stuff out later and trying to find original copies of certificates to verify things.
in the meantime, here is the reference for John and Elizabeth:
21/09/1806 LAWRENCE, JOHN (O.P.R. Marriages 235/0020 0258 Rathen).
i use www.scotlandsPeople.co.uk website to find all my certificated entries.
I am just going to have a holiday in Scotland soon! Can't wait to actually visit the area and the graveyards to see what i can find.
Have fun!
Tracey
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Me again...
Is this info any good for you? My cousin (i think) who lives in Forres, Scotland has managed to get graveyard inscriptions and there are some Clarks on it:
William Clark 29 Jan 1829
James Clark 14 Sep 1848
Jean Robertson 22 Feb 1848
John Clark 19 Sep 1848
James Clark 20 Mar 1872
Joseph Clark 27 Aug 1872
George Clark 18 Feb 1874
Isabella Lawrance 8 Apr 1882
At the top of the page it says 'Names and Dates on Stone Number 81'. and, 'You will find the full text in booklet reference number AA175 from ANESFHS. (Aberdeen & North-East Scotland Family History Society).
I hope this is all relevant to you!
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Thanks Tracey for the feedback and references.
The Head Stone potentially has lots on useful information for me (so thanks very much)
The later James Clark on the Stone (died 27 Aug 1872) must be my 3rd great grandfather as this ties up with the death certificate copy I got from Scotlands People for him. Isabella Lawrence was his wife and her death date would match up to the sort of time when she could have died, but I thought she would have been buried as Isabella Clark? (Or does anyone know if there is a reason why she could be listed under her maiden name?). From censuses I have a birth year of between 1807-1811 (obtained from Census Records) for her which would tie up with your Isabel Laurence of 1807 (do you have a specific date?). Despite Searching for the death of Isabella Lawrence (and various wild card options on this) or Isabella Clark I never managed to find the death of the correct Isabella on Scotlandspeople. Therefore if this is her this is another piece of the Jigsaw completed. James Clark's father was also James Clark so the earlier James Clark could well be the death of his Father. His wife from James Clark ("juniors") death certificate is listed as Jane Robertson, so it is not inconceivable that this could be the Jean Robertson on the gravestone!
Does your Cousin (or any head stone experts out there) think is is likely to be a Family Head Stone (seems possible to me) and also whether it is traditional for the wifes on such headstones to appear under their maiden names??
I hope you have a great time in Scotland, although born and bred in Wales I had many happy summer holidays in my younger years staying with our relatives in Inverurie, Abderdeenshire.
Roy
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Thanks for your suggestion of looking on the following page... can't believe i was stupid enough not to think of it! I found the missing people!! Will read your previous email properly today and come back later with hopefully more info...
Tracey
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Do you know if it's normal for children to have more than one baptism certificate?? I have found correct entries for all of the Lawrence children born between 1807 and 1828. The earlier children turn up on 2 baptism certificates for different parishes. They are listed along with the new 'babies' so I know I have the correct entries.
????
Also, I am stuck because I don't have John Lawrence birth/baptism entry (he was probably born sometime around 1780 as he married Eleanora on 21st sept 1806). I also know he died before 1841 as eleanora is a widow on the Census. I can't get any further back without a birth/baptism entry. How frustrating!!!! don't have a clue what his mother and father might have been called.
I'm STUCK!
Tracey
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HI Tracey
Sorry can't help with the baptism query (Can the administrators advise Tracey?)
If you are confident of whose John's brothers and sisters were are you able to find any of their births/baptisms which should then give you the names of John's parents?
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Hi
that is the trouble, i don't have any info on John at all other than his marriage to Eleanora. And that only says that they were married and which parish. 'John Lawrence & Eleanora Shand both in the parish were married'.
... back to the search...
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Hi Tracey
A search on IGI brings up
a John Laurence christened 10 May 1788 Rathen with mother and father Alexr Lawrence and Margt. Milne
a John Lawrence christened 12 Oct 1788 Rathen with mother and Father Alexr Lawrence and Mary Pirie
(Also a later John Lawrence christened 02 Jan 1797 Rathen with mother and father Alexr Lawrence and Margt. Milne)
Both the 1788 entries are possibles as he would have been 18 in 1806 when he married Eleanora
If you haven't used IGI before go to the link
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp
Enter first name and last name (leave parents blank if you don't know who they are)
Choose your "Event" e.g. Birth/Christening, enter an approximate year and year range
Select Region as British Isles, Country as Scotland, County as Aberdeen
Then click on Search which will bring up a range of what it can find.
Note IGI entries are often unsubstantiated and aren't guaranteed as being correct but often do prove to be right.
Roy
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Hi
A further search just putting in Alexr Laurence as Father and Margt Milne as mother also brings up
William Laurence christened 02 March 1781 Rathen
therefore a possible earlier brother
If you try various combinations e.g. just putting in father, just putting in mother, using full names Alexander and Margaret and different years and year ranges you may find more.
Roy
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There is also a
Jean Laurence christened 11 Feb 1785 Rathen
Father Alexr Laurence mother Margt Mill (but this could just be a misspelling of Milne)
Roy
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Hi Roy
I have a question for you! AFter a false start I am now looking at the Edinburgh area where the Laurances moved to in roughly 1850. The eldest son, Johan, who was born in England in 1841 ish was a Cabinet maker journeyman - however, he disappears after his fathers death in 1863 and I can't find him in either England or Scotland!
Would his name have been listed as 'John' rather than 'Johan'???? Also, a bit of a moan, how come Scottish records are sooooooooooo good and you can look at the certificates on line.... English records you have to guess that you have the right one and then order it!!!
In all my searching i have to say that the Scotland part was by far the easiest - they seem to have really got a hold on this ancestory stuff and even very old certificates are all available to view online - and the people are really helpful... there isn't even an email address for 'Ancestory.co.uk' in England.
any ideas on what i can do next to find this 'Johan Lawrence/Laurance'????
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Hi Tracey
Can you please Supply us with some more background/information. I have done a quick search of the censuses for Johan Laurance and can't find anything at all. So can you please let us known:
How did you find him in the first place, and your references/sources
Where in England was he born?
What his parents, brothers, sisters names were?
How do you know his profession, is he in the 1861 census? If so where?
What references have you got for the Laurances moving to Edingburgh?
These might give clues as to where/how you can do further searches.
P.S. I totally agree the Scottish Census/Marriage/Birth/Death records are so much better than the English/Welsh ones
Roy
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Hi Roy
Here goes...
Firstly, it took me ages to decipher his name - it looked like Faban, or Laban and then I realised it was probably Johan through looking at other handwriting on the certificates. Of course, I may be wrong!!! now i'm looking at the first letter, it doesn't look anything like the 'J' for Joseph... it looks more like a swirly 'L'.
anyway...
Joseph Lawrence b. 1815 married Elizabeth Morris b. ?. Found Josephs death cert with correct spouse, profession, age and area (Edinburgh). On this certificate a Johan (Faban/Laban) Lawrence, Son, is the informant.
1851 Census - Johan Lawrence is listed as Son, age 10 and a scholar
1861 Census - Johan Lawrence is listed as Son, age 20 and a Cabinet Maker-Journeyman
1871 Census - No Johan as he has probably moved out by then
As to brothers & sisters:
Johan 1841 ????
Joseph 1849 to 1930 - married Agnes Grieve in 1869. They had 7 children. (This is the family line that leads down to me eventually!).
Matilda 1850 to 1943 - Married Alexander Campbell McLeod and had 6 children, Alexander died around 1871 and she then married William Sutherland
James 1853 to 1893 - Married Ellen/Helen, died a pauper in St Cuthberts, Edinburgh, 2 children died in early infancy, his wife died in 1891.
Elizabeth 1855 to 1885 - Married Thomas Dick - 1 child
Alice 1860 - can't find anything out about her either!
It looks like the family moved to Edinburgh just before Joseph was born... Joseph, Elizabeth and 'Johan' all have ENGLAND as 'where born' on their Census returns. Son Joseph has 'EDINBURGH' as do the rest of the children after. I have no idea why they moved to Edinburgh...
I hope you can help - this family tree stuff is so important to me cos I was adopted as a baby and this is the family I might have had if my lovely Grandfather had been listened to when he said 'why don't we keep her?'. I did eventually find my natural mother and her father was Jock Lawrence - this is the line I am tracing back.
Tracey
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Hi, it is definitely an 'L' as it matches the Lawrence... so it looks like 'Laban'. Will try searching for this but i think i have already done this and not found anything!!
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:) This marriage entry looks promising:
1865 LAWRENCE LABAN FARQUHARSON JANE ST GILES EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/04 0084
Regards.
Monica
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Tracey
Looking good ;D From the 1871 Census, everyone showing as born in Edinburgh except Laban:
Laban Lawrence 30, Foot Officer Slamper (?!), b. England
Jane Lawrence 29
Joseph Lawrence 5
Margt C Lawrence 4
Elizth M Lawrence 2
Address: 4 Milne Square, Edinburgh High Church
And in 1881:
Laban Lawrence 40, Porter General Post Office, b. England
Jane Craig Lawrence 39
Joseph Lawrence 15
Margaret Craig Lawrence 14
Mary Squire Lawrence 9
Alexander F Lawrence 7
Laban Lawrence 5
William M Lawrence 2
Jane Craig Lawrence 7 Mo
Address: Specific address not given on index but showing in Edinburgh St Giles
Unusual name Laban, only two entries coming up for Laban Lawrence in the whole of Scotland. Probably father (b. circa 1840) and (son b. circa 1876):
1 1887 LAWRENCE LABAN M 47 ST GILES EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/04 1038
2 1926 LAWRENCE LABAN M 50 COLINTON EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/14 0152
Regards.
Monica
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Roy
I have been looking for the same info at the same time!! goodness you're quick! I've gone a bit further:
Jane died in May 1885 in childbirth, and then Laban died in 1887 of cancer?. All those children left alone!! it's all a bit sad.
Any ideas what would have happened to the children? 7 of them ranging from about 7 years old to 20.
Have found Laban (jnr) death cert for 1926... he was married to Elizabeth McLeod who happens to be his Auntie Matilda's daughter (was that legal?).
T
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Tracey
I'm Monica not Roy ::)
Monica 8)
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One possibility for the older children in 1891:
Joseph Lawrence 25, Rubber Worker
Margt Lawrence 24, sister, Clerkess (Unemployed)
Mary Lawrence 19, sister, House Keeper
Alexr Lawrence 17, brother, Telegraph Messenger
Euphemia Lawrence 9, sister
Francis Godfrey 27, boarder, vanman b. Edinburgh
Address: 5 Murray St Edinburgh St Cuthberts
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sorry for calling you 'Roy' !!! I think i've been at the computer too long!
Thanks for the info, will check it out.
Tracey
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I am doing much better with my searching now... things are falling into place nicely! thanks for all the help.
Can anyone tell me though, is it usual for ages to be a bit 'off'?? Joseph Lawrence, christened 1815 (same parents as on death cert), manages to get married at 'age 19' in 1838 (surely he would have been 24?). all the way through on the Census returns and his death cert his age is more like a birth date of 1818, not 1815... did they randomly chop years off records just to confuse us?! All the other info adds up, i.e. profession, spouse, parents, children etc...
Also, I know that him and his wife, Elizabeth Morris, were both born in England and went to Edinburgh with their eldest son, Laban (christened 1841 in England). trouble is, I can't find an 1841 Census for either England or Scotland for them... is it possible they were travelling up to Scotland at the time? Laban was born in 1840 I think, so he would have been a baby. If they were staying somewhere would they have been listed as 'travellers' or something?
Thanks for any help!
Tracey
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Hi Tracey
Always be open minded on people's ages ::) Exact ages were not important in those times, indeed many people may not have remembered their exact birth day - a sign of the times. Always worthwhile adding a +/- x years when you are carrying out exact searches on the censuses and death at age.
When searching the 1841 census, also bear in mind that ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years for everyone over 15, children should show their actual age. Not always followed by the enumerator, but in most cases this was.
Regards.
Monica :)
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In response to Roy's question -Yes, it is usual to find women's maiden names on Scottish headstones & also on censuses if they're widowed.
flst
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In Scotland, Scottish women never legally 'lost' their maiden names and could/ would use their maiden name on a number of registrations even though married or widowed. The 1841 census in particular often shows married women under their maiden names in their family's household entry.
Monica :)
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Do you have anymore info on the Shand side? I have Eleanor’s dad William born 1764 and his dad William born 1730. Both were born in Forgue, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
Thank you. I’m new to this site and researching. Joined this morning.
Hi. I am new to this site and found you be accident while searching for my ancestors in Scotland. I nearly fell off my chair when I read this post because I am searching for the Lawrences and have got back as far as RATHEN.
John Laurance is my Great, Great, Great, Great, Grandfather and he married Eleanora Shand in 1806 in Rathen. Eleanora was born/baptised 25/12/1785 - father William Shand.
I found birth/baptism entry for Joseph Lawrence on 4th July 1815 (my G.G.G. Grandfather) and also found entry (on one certificate) for George 1811, Eleanor 1813 and John (no date), also another entry for Isabel Laurence 1807.
I tried searching the Census records and found one for 1851 but it is for George Lawrance (head) can't see age, Eleanora Lawrance, (Mother), Widowed, age 65, and Eleanor Lawrance (sister), unmarried, age 38. This would mean that Eleanoras husband (John) must have died previous to this date. All the ages add up so I thought I was onto a winner... BUT you have found another 1851 Census that has George, Eleanora, Eleanor, Jean ?, Robert ? (don't have Jean and Roberts birth/baptism entries, do you have them?) and a servant. Now i am confused! is my find for 1851 the wrong one? Also, what happened to 'John' who appeared on the 'bulk' baptism certificate with George and Eleanor?
I am completely hooked on this and can't wait for replies!!!
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Hi Tracy,
I just got Eleanora Lawrence's(Shand) birth (25 Dec 1775), Marriage(21 Sept 1806) and death (6Aug 1857) certificates. It shows on Ancestry for hints the 1841 and 1851 census in the same location. Lonmay, Aberdeenshire. I am trying to get information on Eleanora Shand. Her birth/baptism record shows only William Shand. I am assuming based on her supposed brothers and sisters Robert, Joseph, Elizabeth, Jean and Mary being born in the same town and parish to William Shand and Isabel Bruce that her mother is Isabel Bruce. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hi. I am new to this site and found you be accident while searching for my ancestors in Scotland. I nearly fell off my chair when I read this post because I am searching for the Lawrences and have got back as far as RATHEN.
John Laurance is my Great, Great, Great, Great, Grandfather and he married Eleanora Shand in 1806 in Rathen. Eleanora was born/baptised 25/12/1785 - father William Shand.
I found birth/baptism entry for Joseph Lawrence on 4th July 1815 (my G.G.G. Grandfather) and also found entry (on one certificate) for George 1811, Eleanor 1813 and John (no date), also another entry for Isabel Laurence 1807.
I tried searching the Census records and found one for 1851 but it is for George Lawrance (head) can't see age, Eleanora Lawrance, (Mother), Widowed, age 65, and Eleanor Lawrance (sister), unmarried, age 38. This would mean that Eleanoras husband (John) must have died previous to this date. All the ages add up so I thought I was onto a winner... BUT you have found another 1851 Census that has George, Eleanora, Eleanor, Jean ?, Robert ? (don't have Jean and Roberts birth/baptism entries, do you have them?) and a servant. Now i am confused! is my find for 1851 the wrong one? Also, what happened to 'John' who appeared on the 'bulk' baptism certificate with George and Eleanor?
I am completely hooked on this and can't wait for replies!!!