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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: lozza60 on Monday 03 December 07 09:16 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for information on George Phillip Bowe, a carpenter.
His father was George Bowe and his mother was Catherine ?. I think George married Margaret Holmes in the second quarter of 1849 at Newcastle Upon Tyne and they migrated to Australia in1852.
I believed that George was born in Whitehaven,Cumberland around 1828 until I got his death certificate today which states that he was born in Brazil, South America!!
I was also wondering if anyone could tell me Margaret mother's name Alice ?, her father was John Holmes, a shoemaker. Margaret was born in Whitehaven about 1828
Thanks in anticipation
Lozza
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1841 census - is it the family in Newcastle?
Could this marriage be relevant?
24 Oct 1824 Newcastle, John HOLMES to Alice GILMOUR (IGI, submitted)
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I assume you have the Holmes family in 1851. In 1841 there is an entry, as GeoffE says, for John age 35 shoemaker, John 15 Cooper Ap, James 9, Alice 35, Margaret 12. They are living at Forth Bank, St Nicholas, Northumberland. Remember ages above 15 were usually rounded down to the nearest 5 in 1841.
HO107/848/12 F38 P9 However, all say born in County whereas Margaret does say Whitehaven in 1851.
Andrea
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However, all say born in County whereas Margaret does say Whitehaven in 1851.
... with an 1828 baptism (IGI) in Whitehaven to match.
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Thanks for the quick reply
Geoff, I have found the IGI baptism for Margaret . Regarding the marriage and Alice Gilmour, on Margaret Bowe's (nee Homes) death certificate her mother's maiden name appears to start with an M- the name is hard to decipher.
Sillgen, if the family head is John Holmes rather than Bowe it is probably the right family.
Have you any hints about the Brazil birth or how to track it down?
Lozza
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yes - it was Holmes. I could not find the Bowes! Old age is getting to me.....
Andrea
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It may be just coincidence but there is still a Willie Bowe operating out of Aspatria as a builder.
bob
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Thanks Sillgen, I know the feeling! I didn't know that ages were rounded down, do you know why?
Bob, where is Aspatria?
Lozza
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I didn't know that ages were rounded down, do you know why?
It was just the way they did it in 1841 - it was the first census where they bothered taking ages at all.
For the full Enumerators' instructions go here http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcots/Enum.html
Aspatria is halfway between Whitehaven and Carlisle - map http://tinyurl.com/346lpq
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Thanks for the information, there is always something new to learn.
I was wondering if anyone that has access to the 1841 census could find George Bowe, who would be around 13 years, or his parents George-carpenter and Catherine.
Lozza
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Hi all
Could the M in the mother's maiden name be for Margaret? Pigot's 1828/9 has
Mrs Margt Holmes, 17 Plumblands Lane, shipowner (Whitehaven). Could she be a widow? Was the birth in Brazil a link to the sea? These shipping families in Whitehaven often married betweeen themselves.
Good luck
Emms
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PS: There's also a
Ship Builder & Timber Merchant: Bowes, Wm & Co, North Harbour.
(Same date, Pigot's 1828/29).
Emms
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Hi, I found George Bowe in the 1841 census, Borough of Newcastle Upon Tyne, Parish of St John on Westgate Street, he has three brothers listed, Charles, Joseph and William and one sister Elizabeth. Their father George was married to Catherine (Hunter) at St Hilda's church in South Shields.
Charles Bowe is my great great grandfather, he was also born in South America (Province of Minas Briarie??) and can be found in all subsequent census records up till his death in 1892, I had wondered why George disappeared from the census records but emigration to Oz appears to answer that one.
The family appears to have spent some time working in South America before returning to the UK sometime before the 1841 census. They then split their time between between Newcastle and London.
George senior is listed in the 1851 census (age49), along with son Joseph (age 15 plasterer), at Park Place in St Andrews in Newcastle as a "house carpenter" it records his place of birth as "London, Middlesex".
1861 shows no trace of either George senior or junior but shows Joseph (age 25 plasterer) in St Paul's Greenwich (London) married to Lucy with daughters Charlotte and Lucy.
Charles Bowe is found in 1861 at Low Teams in Gateshead, married to Mary Ann (Stephenson) with sons Charles George and William.
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Hi From Australia. George Bowe & George Phillip Bowe is in My family tree.
The line that I am in is George Hunter Son of GP, then Thomas Bradford son of GH, Thomas George son of TB, L E son of TG, then me.
Would like to hear more info on George Bowe life in England before he came to Australia in 1854. I know he had a son Charles William and would like to know more. my email is oddsoc4u AT yahoo.com.au
Cheers
David :)
Moderator Comment: Email amended and details of living people removed in accordance with rootschat policy
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Hi David
Welcome to rootschat. I have amended your post slightly as we do not publish too many details of living people in case they are picked up for fraud. Once you have three posts to your credit you will be able to use our personal message system so will not need to put your email on a public board. We try to avoid spammers picking them up. Reply to this and you have one more post!
Good to see that you have found a connection.
Andrea
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Hello David,
Charles William is my ancestor but I haven't done much work on the family tree for some time now, but I still want to find out what the family was doing in South America between 1828 and 1830 and what brought them back to the UK and to the North East of England in particular.
I think George and Margaret were married at St Nicholas Cathedral in Newcastle, there is a website that tells you a lot about the history of the church.
http://www.newcastle-ang-cathedral-stnicholas.org.uk/
Cheers
Jeff
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Hi Jeff,
this link has some info of George Bowe Family in Brazil
http://genforum.genealogy.com/Brazil/messages/2225.html
There are few messages, I have tried the people in the messages with no luck.
Would like to know more about Charles William family and rest of George Bowe family? What happen to his wife Catherine Bowe & rest of the Family? In my research I heard there was story that George Bowe was an Earl or connected to the Royal family. George was burnt to death, 4 years after arriving in Australia. What do you know about George Phillip, in Australia and the family in Australia. I can fill you in what you don't know.
Great to talk to you
Thanks
Cheers
David
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Hi David and hello again Jeff
It looks like we have discovered another branch of the Bowe family tree. I haven't been doing much with this tree since I last had contact with you, Jeff and I hope that you are keeping well. I was pleased to read the website that David has suggested, its another link in the chain.
I think that I have contact with David through another web site but I can let you know the info that I have.
Cheers
Lozza
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Good evening. I have responded to a direct query from David "oddsoc4u", but am copying the salient parts here as there are several family members looking for information about the Bowe family that spent a few years in Brazil. My interest in this is through my researches into the British communities in Brazil, particularly in the 18-19th centuries.
Incidentally, the weblink to the Brazil message referred to by David is now http://genforum.genealogy.com/brazil/messages/2225.html
It seems to be that George Bowe (Sr) went to Brazil with his wife Catherine to work at the British-owned Gongo Soco gold mine in the state of Minas Gerais as a carpenter. If it is correct that George was born at Rio de Janeiro in 1828, there is a high likelihood that they had just arrived in Brazil and were en route up-country. Then two years later Charles was born and they took the opportunity to have them both baptised at Gongo Soco on 25 Dec 1830.
How long did they stay in Gongo Soco. That's not clear, but they were back in the UK, in London, for the birth of Joseph in 1836. Were there other children in between? No sign of another baptism out there, but the records are incomplete (covering 2-12/1830 and 2/1832-4/1834); but any others would have died over there as there seem to be no others who returned to UK.
Why did they return? Maybe there was a fixed-term contract, or there were more personal problems of health or just being away from the family in England. There are no surviving records of the mine's owners, the Imperial Brazilian Mining Association. Undoubtedly conditions at Gongo Soco were tough and there were later accusations that the company's conditions for the ordinary workers (though not for the British expats) were "modern slavery" (slavery in Brazil was not finally abolished until 1887).
Hoping that this is useful, please let me know if anything more is known of their time there.
best wishes for 2009
David
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Hi again all
I've just been looking at the Genforum Link. I've actually lodge a question about Carruthers mentioned there, but I'll start a new thread on that here.
Thank you very much for the information on there and here. I think it is David? who's contributed. I always wondered if this post would go the same way as my own Carruthers research!
Could I ask a couple more general questions though? Could you tell us how you came by the birth information for Brazil?
Also, where can one access company informatiuon for Brzil, and would one have to use Portuguese?
Best wishes
Emms
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Hello Emms
The birth information on the Bowe family came from the baptism register at Gongo Soco which is preserved in the Anglican Church in Rio de Janeiro along with their own of baptisms, marriages and burials. I have started transcribing those registers.
I am no expert at all on Brazilian national records - and especially of companies (and I am resident in England at present). I will look out what I have on the Carruthers over the coming days and respond to your message about them.
best wishes
David
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David, thank you very much for the swift reply and for the information.
We'd love anything you have a chance to tell us but don't feel pressurised.
I must say, I'm fascinated by what I'm learning about Brazil and the British out there, and the links to other countries.
Thank you again, David.
That's really appreciated.
Best wishes
Emms
PS I'm realising, that though I replied to a point on this strand, I'm distracting from the original question, though right from the start I wondered if they would meet up. I might start another strand. I'll have a think about the best way to do it, and also have a look at what we've got and see if anyone else's names appear such as Bowe.
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Hi All
Just another link to the George Bowe tree in Australia crusing by and reading the replies well done to all for geting the info and sharing with us all thats what its all about
I dont have any info that is not already here but if you require the line that i have will glady share.
I come from george Phillip bowe. We know George snr and George jnr came to Australia what happened to Catherine did she stay behind with the other children ?
I have not one but two links to the bowe family so its like a big bow tie in the tree and the links come from my mothers and fathers side didnt I have a time getting my head around that.
George phillip had a daughter Elizabeth married three times her first one to william david Prentice
They had a daughter Margaret louisa Prentice married to Arthur durston they had daughter my grandmother
The second line allthough in a round about way by marriage through to Elizabeth bowe again due to her sons John james bowe prentice marriage to Jannett fisher Slocombe.
What I do have is a picture taken about 1895-96 of the Prentice family which includes George phillip bowe and his daughter Elizabeth Prentice (bowe) and her son John james bowe prentice if anyone wants a copy will glady email it to you.
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Hello,
There is a death recorded for a Catherine Bowe in London in 1860, I've recently requested a copy cert to see if it will provide a maiden name or informat details to link to George Bowe.
I would love to see a photo of GP Bowe, his brother CW Bowe was my GG grandfather.
Cheers
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Hi Jeff
If you want a copy sent direct to you I need an email addy
thanks
craig
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oooppsss the oldest male is GP BOWE
older female is his daughter Elizabeth and holding her son John jame bowe Prentice
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I am trying to trace the life and family (if any) of George Gonyie Bowe (b. 23 Nov 1799). He was baptised at Shilbottle, Northumberland, England on 16 Nov 1800, but given the gap between birth and baptism he may well have been born elsewhere. (His DOB was recorded at the time of the baptism.) His father was an officer in the army and probably spent much of the previous five years serving around the Mediterranean. George's age does not seem to match the ages for George Bowe (the joiner) in the UK census returns, but how accurate are these? Does anyone know what age George Bowe (the joiner) was when he died in Australia? Does it tally with a birth in late 1799?
Looking at the census returns and the GRO indexes, George Philip Bowe's younger brother, Joseph, had a son called Joseph Gonyie Bowe and this seems more than coincidental to me. The name Gonyie comes from George Gonyie Bowe's mother's family. I know nothing of her, except her name (Issidora Joakis Gonyie). As for the name itself, it also appears as Gonea or Gongue in the GRO index entries for Joseph G. Bowe, so I'm not sure what the correct spelling is.
Finally, have any anecdotal stories about George's background passed down through the family that might help to determine if the two men are the same person? I see there's a reference to George Bowe being an earl or related to royalty. If George Bowe (the joiner) and George Gonyie Bowe are one and the same then there is substance to this story, although he was not a member of the British nobility fallen on hard times!
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Jim Bowe
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Bowe folk in the Durham area. complete with spelling mistakes.
I've spoken to one or two posters here on other sites.
http://horwitzfam.org/getperson.php?personID=I8791&tree=Complete
Edit: I should add this relates to Charles Bowe.
born: America, 1830
the link does concern the Bowe family mentioned in the thread.
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oooppsss the oldest male is GP BOWE
older female is his daughter Elizabeth and holding her son John jame bowe Prentice
Hi Craig,
I am assuming the other children in the photo are George and Albert and maybe Margaret and Eva?
If the offer is available, would I be able to obtain a copy of the photo, it would be the only Prentice photo I would have other than my own immediate family.
Thanks,
Brett Prentice
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Hi Brett, welcome to RootsChat :)
You need to make another posting or two, then you will be able to use the personal messaging (PM) system to exchange e-mail addresses with Craig.
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I'm thinking I know who it may have been. If it was Craig then I emailed him this afternoon and he has since emailed me the photo. Thanks for replying. I don't know why I haven't used this forum in greater detail, guess I have been involved in other forums... way too many....
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Hi Guys, this is my first attempt to post. No idea what I am doing.
George P Bowe b 1828 is my 2nd Great Grandfather, his father George G b. 1799 came to Aust and died here. His Father George O Bowe b. 1775 married twice (or at least had children to 2 women) The first being Issidora Gonyie to whom he had George G and then he had 2 boys William 1803 and John 1805 to Smith Scott whom he married in 1802.
The only real information I have on George O's father is that his name is also George. Are you confused by all the Georges yet!!!! All family trees I have found have this George Bowe married to Elizabeth Skelly daug, of Lady Elizabeth (Betty) Gordon who married Rev J Skelly. I have found church records of Rev's of Shilbottle Church to prove this is correct however I need proof that Rev. George Bowe is our George Bowe. Does anyone have any information or proof.
George O was a Capt in the 3rd Royal Garrison Batt at the time of his sons birth in 1805. I cannot find any war records for him that may give more information on his father or places that he lived.
However, what I did notice is that one of the sponsors/grandparent's of William Gordon was George Marquis of Huntly, which is part of Lady Betty Gordon's Lineage.
Hoping someone out there can help Kaz
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Presume this is George O BOWE
George Osbaldestone Bowe b 1775 - 1805 Jersey
George Osbaldeston Bowe
Birth Date: 13 Jun 1775
Baptism Date: 2 Jan 1776
Baptism Place: Warkworth,Northumberland,England
Father: George Bowe
G O Bowe
Event: Marriage
Marriage Date: 26 Jul 1805
Spouse: Smith Scott
WO 42: Officers Birth Certificates, Wills and Personal Papers Piece 003: B 251-434 (1776-1881)
George Gonyie Bowe
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1799
Baptism Date: 16 Nov 1800
Baptism Place: Shilbottle, Northumberland, England
Father: George Osbaldiston Bowe
Mother: Issidora Joakis Gonyie
John Joseph Bowe Esqr
Baptism Date: 12 Jan 1805
Baptism Place: St Helier, Jersey
Father: George Osbaldeston Bowe ( captain in the 3rd Royal Veteran Battalion)
Mother: Smith Bowe
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Thanks elzabels for your reply. Yes all the information you have basically tellies with mine except for marriage details of GO Bowe to Smith Scott. Going by my info they were married on the 24.6.1802, but the copy requested by Smith so she could get a pension was certified on the 26.7.1805. My brick wall is at George O Bowe's father -- George Bowe. Do you have any documentation or information on him.
I am trying to find out if George O's father "George Bowe" is or isn't the same person as the Rev. George Bowe that married Elizabeth Skelly.
I would be interested in anything you can add to my searching.
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North East Inheritence database website has the Probate of Rev. George Bowe of Shilbottle, 13 June 1803. Mentions his wife Elizabeth and his son George Osbaldeston Bowe.
Burial of Elizabeth Bowe, of Warkworth, at Shilbottle, 8 June 1806, age 67. Widow of George Bowe. Nee Skelly. Husband formerly a Vicar. (FreeREG).
The baptism of George Gonyie Bowe at Shilbottle, 1800, says his mother was Native of Portugal.
(Durham Bishops Transcripts on Familysearch).
Alan.
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Alan,
Thank You, Thank You and Thank You. :-* You have just knocked down my brick wall. You have finally proven that George Bowe who married Elizabeth Skelly is the same George Bowe who is in our family line.
:-* Kaz
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Alfred George bowe 1874-1923 was the son of George Hunter Bowe 1850-1902 his wife was Emily Betsy Bowe. His father was George Bowe 1828-1905 then his father was George gonyie Bowe 1799- then George Osbaldiston Bowe 1775-1805 although it also states bone then George Bowe 1748-1803 then John Bowe 1712-1767 back to George Bowe 1683-1750
Hope this helps someone that's as fas as I have
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Hello,
Hope this helps
Cheers Terry
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Hi I've been trying to find stuff out about the bowes side of the family.. My great grandmother was Mary Ann bowe, her father was William bowe....ive traced it back to George osbaldeston bowe which I hope is correct and looking on the forum I was glad to find abit more about him.. I will keep digging as I love the family history.