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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: annie 1 on Wednesday 05 December 07 17:02 GMT (UK)
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Please help, any info about my gt granddad john smith in 1901 census.In 1908 was living at 10 Hopper street Dubmire Newbottle.Also any info about this add please. Menythanks.Annie,Doncaster.
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Annie the Joker,
Looking for JOHN SMITH on C1901.....
add a few more snippets of info to stand some chance of finding him..... his age in 1901, or birth year, birth place, who would he have been living with at that time, names of parents, his occupation, etc..
Michael
Newcastle
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Here's a John Smith in Dubmires, Newbottle (how lucky's that Michael!!!)
1901 RG13/4693 fol.80 p.31
Mary Street, Dubmires, Newbottle, Durham
SMITH
Thomas head m 56 Stone Mason Haltwhistle North'd
Jane wife m 41 Durham City
Lilian dau 14 Durham Newbottle
John son 8 " "
Edith A dau 6 " "
Joseph son 3 " "
Jane dau 2 " "
There are others in other parts of Newbottle, will try to find the address you gave, Annie
Barbara :)
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Annie - Hopper Street was at Dubmire, which is a part of Fence Houses, Houghton-le-Spring formerly in County Durham but now in Tyne & Wear. The street was named after George Hopper who had the, quite extensive, Britannia Iron Foundry there. Hopper Street was behind Britannia Terrace which is still there.
Wearsider.
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Bingo! :D
1901 RG13/4693 fol.88 p.47
9 Hopper Street, Dubmire
SMITH
William head m 40 Coal Hewer Derbyshire Chesterfield
Mary Ann " m 33 Durham Hetton-le-hole
David son 12 " Newbottle
Mary dau 9 " "
William son 7 " "
Elizabeth dau 4 " "
Thomas son 1 " "
10 Hopper Street
SMITH
John head widr 57 Coal Hewer Newcastle on Tyne
Jane dau s 26 North'd Whittingham
Isabella O dau s 23 Durham Newbottle
Mary Agnes dau s 20 School Teacher " "
John W. THOMPSON cousin s 23 Coal Hewer Durham Houghton le Spring
Barbara :)
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A big thankyou to Michael,Barbara and Wearsider.Info very interesting(and quick)But ? Will responed later to day and ask some more Qs.
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Hi Annie,
Thanks for your pm. I see that you were hoping to find Walter Smith b.1889 at the address, however, having had a look, Walter is from another Smith family in another part of Newbottle, Sunnyside! They must have moved to Hopper Street by the time Walter married in 1908.
1901 RG13/4693 fol.60 p.39
No. 2 Sunniside North, Newbottle, Durham
SMITH
John head m 45 Coal Miner London
Mary A wife m 43 "
Mary dau s 19 Durham Houghton le Spring
John A son s 17 Putter Coalmine " "
Wm. " 16 " " " "
Lizzie A. dau 13 London
Walter son 11 Durham Houghton le Spring
Earney " 10 " " "
Joseph " 6 " Sunniside
Arthur " 3 " "
Ada dau 1 " "
Edwd. son 1month " "
Ann R. Melkin visitor s 38 " "
Would you like earlier census for this family?
Barbara :)
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1891 RG12/4113 fol.55 p.32
Hill Cottages, Houghton le Spring, Durham
SMITH
John head m 34 Coal Miner
Mary wife m 32
Harry son 13 Scholar
Mary S. dau 10 "
John A. son 7 "
William P " 5
Elizabeth dau 3
Walter son 1
Erny " 0 1month
Erny BOYDEN lodger s 19 Coal Miner London
Henrietta SPEARMAN servant s 21 "
all except last two born Houghton le Spring (although on 1901 John & Mary b. London)
Barbara
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Think this must be the family in 1881, still finding out their birthplaces, although I've never heard of Messing, perhaps an enumerator's mistake:
RG11/4972 fol.33 p.12
John Street, Houghton le Spring, Durham
John Smith head m 23 Coal Miner Kent Messing
Mary A " wife m 22 " "
Henry " son 1 " "
William " " 2 " "
Going by the names of the lodger in 1891, wonder if Mary's maiden name was Boyden, do you have Walter's birth cert?
There's a marriage in Witham (Essex) for a Mary Ann E Boyden to John Smith Dec Qu 1877 Witham 4a 635
Barbara
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Barbara,
There is a Messing ( or more) in Essex !
Michael Dixon
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Hi Michael,
Thanks, hadn't looked into it properly, that might tie in with the marriage in Witham district then, just checked and Messing is in that district
(and still an enumerator's mistake!)
Waiting to hear from Annie about mother's maiden name before going any further back with this, there are some Boydens in Essex in earlier census...a Mary Ann in 1871 census right age born Messing ...
Barbara
:)
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Ok, bull by the horns, in 1871 there's a Mary Ann Boyden in Messing, in 1881 she's not there but the family now has a son Earnie who is probably the one staying with John & Mary in 1891...
1881 RG11/1798 fol.63 p.28
Messing, Essex
BOYDEN
William head m 52 Farm Labourer Essex Messing
Susannah wife m 47 " ===? can't read it
William son 18 Farm Labourer " Messing
Ada dau 12 Scholar " "
Earnie son 9 " " "
Ada RUFFLE visitor 12 Scholar " "
1871 RG10/1694 fol.8 p.8
Messing, Essex
BOYDEN
William head m 44 Ag. Labourer Messing
Susanah wife m 38 West Bergholt
Mary A dau 12 Winder in Silk Factory Messing
Ellen dau 11 Scholar Messing
William son 8 " "
Laura dau 5 " "
Ada " 2
Barbara :)
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Regarding 'Hill Cottages' in reply No7, is there any possibility that this could be 'Ewe Hill Cottages' which are at Fence Houses not too far from Hopper Street?
Wearsider.
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Hi wearsider,Michaelina Barbara.I thank you for all the work you have done on my behalf.Alto of info to look at,will print and read later.I have some more Q's for you later.I am going to get all my info together IE certs,paper cuttings etc.speak to all soon.
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Regarding 'Hill Cottages' in reply No7, is there any possibility that this could be 'Ewe Hill Cottages' which are at Fence Houses not too far from Hopper Street?
Hi Wearsider,
The census page just shows Hill Cottages, as I gave earlier, so I've now checked the enumeration sheet and it's for Houghton le Spring and gives Houghton Hill Cottages as one of the places on the list, no mention of Ewe Hill Cottages
Barbara :)
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Thanks for that information Ecneps.
I have not previously heard of 'Hill Cottages' at Houghton-le-Spring and I have checked the Godfrey edition map of 1895 and cannot finfd them there. I am thinking that this may be a reference to the cottages at 'High Hill Side' and 'Low Hill side' that are shown on the map.
Wearsider.
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The full enumeration page might help you to place the cottages:
'Comprising White Lion Hotel, Golden Lion Inn. Sunderland Street including Crulsons(?) Houses in the Hayne(?) Hall field, William Street, Edwin Street, Hirst Houses, Low Hill side, Houghton terrace, Prospect place, Houghton Hill cottages, Cemetary Lodge & the Rectory Hill Farm House'
as this entry for the Smiths came between Prospect Place and Rectory Hill Farm on the census sheet, I'm assuming Hill Cottages referred to Houghton Hill cottages
Barbara
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Many thanks Ecneps, that very helpful.
My first guess about Houghton Hill Cottages was not correct.
Basically the census page is for the 'Sunderland Street area' of Houghton-le-Spring commencing at the Golden Lion, which is adjacent to the Parish Church and ending at the top of 'Houghton Cut'. The Cemetery Lodge is the Lodge for Houghton Hillside Cemetery for which there is an excellent website at www.houghton-hillside-cemetery.org.uk The Lodge may possibly be shown on one of the photos. The adjacent lych gate has recently been restored.
On further examination the Houghton Hill Cottages are shown on Godfrey'e map but not identified as such. There were three reservoirs at Houghton Hill which is at the top of Houghton Cut that belonged to the Houghton-le-Spring Water Works and there are four cottages shown there. The water supply for the reservoirs came from Houghton Pit shaft.
Hope that this information is of some use to Annie.
Wearsider.
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:)Hi Michael,Barbara,Wearsider.I have not sent reply to notice boardfor over a week,please foegive.The only info i have about my granddad is on a marriage cert.Whose says-Walter Smith age19 coalminer living at 10 Hopper St Dubmire,Newbottle.Fathers name John Smith-serviceman colliery.Walter married Sarah Jane Stewart age 19 living at Mary pit cottage,Newbottle.PS.more info about Walter,I have death cert whose says- found dead in Nicholson pondEast Rainton RD age 24[death cert 1915].Were is Nicholson pond ?
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There was a Nicholson's Pit at Rainton Colliery, wonder if it was a mine accident?
see: http://www.mininginstitute.org.uk/papers/plain%20pit.html
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Mary Pit was part of Newbottle Colliery and was quite close to the Bee Hive public house which is on the road between Fence Houses and Newbottle.
Nicholsons Pit, as Ecneps has said, was part of Rainton Colliery. Following some years use for coal production it was used for minewater pumping and has been so used until about 8 years ago. I believe that it is not currently in use but can be used if so required by the Coal Authority. There was a clay pit nearby and this filled with water and became a large pond, I knew it as 'Nicholson's Pond'. It is now known as Joe's Pond and is operated as a nature reserve. The location of the pond is very close to the Rainton Meadows premises of the Durham Wildlife Trust. The Nicholson's pit shaft is a very few yards away from the pond.
Hope that this helps.
Wearsider.
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Hi Barbara,in reply to your answers no6,7 these look very good to me as they seam to matchup.In no8 you put mary ann e boyden, e maybe emily as i have paper cutting send to my father (also called walter)telling him about is grandmothers funeral in 1954 age 96.This would be Johns wife.Paper cutting says funeral service in St Michael's church, is this in Houghton?. If so is i may come and look for headstone.
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HI Wearsider,Thankyou for your reply on 19th.On Walter's death cert says death was suicide and not accident at pit.My father (also called Walter)was born at 72,Middle Rainton very close to Joe,s pond.Would his death have been reported in local paper?If so,would there be a recored anywere.
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HI
There is a death record in the indexes of a
Mary A E Smith reg in Durham North 1954 in the Last Quarter Oct - Dec
Vol 1a
Page 368
Age shown 96
This would seam to match up with that paper cutting you mentioned.
Maybe obtaining it would answer as to who registered the death - it may even be a family member.
Wendy
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Annie - if the death was reported in a local newspaper then one possibility would be the 'Sunderland Echo' which has a wide coverage in the Houghton-le-Spring area. However I do recall a number of people reading the 'Newcastle Journal' and 'Northern Echo' when we lived there.
St Michael and All Angels Church is the parish church for Houghton le Spring. Burials generally take place in Houghton Cemtery which is located between Hetton Road and Durham Road. Houghton le Spring is part of the City of Sunderland and the Cemeteries Department can be contacted via the website at www.sunderland.gov.uk
The church is going to have considerable restoration work undertaken. This is due to commence on 7th January with the last service in church on Sunday 6th. From then on smaller services will be held in the chancel which will be screned off - bigger services will be held in the Kepier Hall behind the church. More information on the restoration project can be found on the website www.stmichaels.hls.org.uk Follow the links for 'Next900 Campaign Appeal.
Records for all City of Sunderland Cemeteries are held by the Sunderland Local Studies Library who also have microfilmed copies of Sunderland Echo so it may be worth your while contacting them via the City of Sunderland website.
Hope that this helps.
Wearsider.
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Hi Annie, thanks for your pm,
It looks as if we have the right family then, the Boydens in Messing. (my replies 6#7#8#11#) - so you have 1901,1891,1881, 1871
So would you now like 1841-1861 (if I can find them?)
Barbara
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Thanks for your pm, Annie,
1861 RG9/1106 fol.17 p.30
Yew Tree Farm, Messing, Essex
BOYDEN
William head m 34 Ag. Lab Messing
Susannah wife m 28 West Bergholt
Thomas son 12 Messing
Mary A E dau 3 "
Ellen " 1 "
Walter Whips lodger u 20 Ag Lab Inworth
Barbara
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Looks like a previous marriage for William, hence the gap in later children's ages:
1851 HO107/1783 fol.4 p.1
Messing, Essex
BOYDON
William head m 30 Ag. Lab Messing
Rebecca wife m 23 Inworth
Rebecca dau 4 Messing
Thomas son 2 "
possible death for Rebecca Boyden 1853 Sept Qu Witham 4a 147
possible marriage William Boyden 1854 Jun Qu Witham 4a 401 with Susannah Raffell or Ruffell on same page, just going to check image, it may be Russell!!
edit it's Ruffell
Barbara
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I think you will need to get the marriage cert for Mary Ann Boyden to John Smith to find out John's father's name and occupation, unable to find out which John Smith he is in earlier census without knowing that, sorry
Barbara
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Hi Annie,
re. your p.m.
Yes I think Lizzie A and Elizabeth are the same person, in 1901 & 1891 census, they're the same age and in between same two children (William & Walter) in age. You would have to check baptisms or birth certs to be absolutely certain, of course.
Barbara :)
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Hi to all,can someone look in 1861 census for Boyden,Witham.Looking for Mary Ann Emily age about 3.Thanks Geoff.
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Hi,
Is this a different one to the one I already gave you in reply 26?
Barbara
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Hi Barbara,yes same as in 26 thanks.Were do i look or goto for baptism records.
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It depends which people you're looking for. If it's for the Messing & Witham ones, you'll need to post a separate request on the Essex look-up board.
Best wishes,
Barbara
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Hi Barbara,in your reply 26 says William 34,But in your reply 27 says William 30?
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Hi, I'm sure it's the same family, but you have to be aware that ages on census can vary quite a bit
Barbara
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Hi everyone,i hope you are all well. I have got Walter smith berth cert says is Mothers name is boyden,so you were right Barbara,well done.It also says Walter was born at Millers Hill,were is this please.Thanks,Geoff.
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Glad that's sorted then, Millers Hill must be somewhere in Houghton le Spring, as that's where it says he was born in the census, 'wearsider' will probably know more about the area.
You'll still need Mary Ann Boyden & John Smith's marriage cert to get further back with John Smith though
Barbara :)
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Annie - Miller's Hill is a part of Houghton le Spring. It is on the left-hand side of the A690 road after it leaves Houghton le Spring and climbs 'Houghton Cut' travelling towards Sunderland. This is the area where 'Hill Cottages', referred to in earlier postings, were.
There is a website at www.east-durham.co.uk that has a section showing photos of Houghton le Spring. If you go to the Home Page and then select 'Houghton le Spring' you will be presented with three pages of photos. One of these shows Houghton Cut as it used to be many years ago. The area to the left-hand side of the top of the road is Miller's Hill, the Lodge of the Hillside Cemetery is at the right-hand side of the top of the road.
Much of Miller's Hill was removed by quarrying and there is now a landfill site there.
Wearsider.
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Please help, any info about my gt granddad john smith in 1901 census.In 1908 was living at 10 Hopper street Dubmire Newbottle.Also any info about this add please. Menythanks.Annie,Doncaster.
My family also lived in Hopper Street. No 4
See all family in street