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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: vaison on Thursday 13 December 07 13:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Thursday 13 December 07 13:50 GMT (UK)
I'm trying to find Edith Royle Chadwick. She was born in  March (I think), 1891 in  the Manchester area. I'm afraid that's all I know. I would be very grateful if anyone can find her.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: wozzle on Thursday 13 December 07 13:53 GMT (UK)
1901
RG13/3711/137/18.
if you do not have access to ancestry then i will post the full entry,
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 14:01 GMT (UK)
1891
25 Fairbourne St
Moss Side
lancs
ben Chadwick hed 41 Commercial Traveller -cigars Burnley lancs
Edith wife 30 Cheshire Sale
Gertrude A daughter 7 Blackpool lancs
Lilian daughter 4 Manchester
Beatrice daughter 1 Manchester
Edith R daughter 2mths manchester
Harry b son 4?(or 2 or 14??) Scholar Burnley lancs
Martha Higson sister in law M 37 Cheshire Sale
Frank Higson nephew 4 Blackpool
RG12 3202 74 49

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: wozzle on Thursday 13 December 07 14:07 GMT (UK)
1901 RG13/3711/137/18.
ben chadwick age 51. b. burnley. occ. commercial traveller. head.
edith chadwick age 40. b. sale,cheshire. wife.
gertrude.a.chadwick age 17. b. blackpool. daughter.
lilian age 13. b. manchester. daughter.
edith.r. age 10. b. manchester. daughter.
muriel age 5. b. manchester. daughter.
iris.v. age 4. b. manchester. daughter.
eric.w. age 1. b. manchester. son.
vivianne age 7mnths. b. manchester. son.
mona age 7mnths. b. manchester. daughter.
alice berry age 23. b. manchester. neice.
douglas gilbert age 21. b. nantwich,cheshire. occ. dental student. visitor.
living at 122,cecil street,moss side,manchester,lancashire.
reg.dist. chorlton.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: wozzle on Thursday 13 December 07 14:12 GMT (UK)
possibly ediths sister beatrice death index.
name. beatrice chadwick
y.o.r. 1893.
qtr. oct/nov/dec.
dist. chorlton.
county. lancashire.
vol. 8c.
page. 645.
est birth year. 1889.
age at death. 4.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 14:13 GMT (UK)
I think Harry B son is age 14 in 1891 -and it looks like benjamin was married previously

1881
Burnley St Stephens
Benjamin Chadwick head 31 Assistant farm Clerk
Susahhah Jane wife 32 Housekeeper
Edwin  (ofr Edison?) son 12 Scholar
HARRY BRETT CHADWICKson 4
all b Burnley
RG11 4146 168 38

there is quite a gap between Edwin and harry brett -so maybe Ben was married previously ?

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Thursday 13 December 07 14:33 GMT (UK)
Thankyou both for help so far. I need a bit of time to look at it.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 14:38 GMT (UK)
Possibly death of benjamin's previous wife

Deaths
Jun qtr 1890
Susannah jane Chadwick
age 41
Blackburn
8c 257

if this is the correct person, then beatrice would be her child and so half sister to Edith Royle???
Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Thursday 13 December 07 15:19 GMT (UK)
In 1891 Ben's sister-in-law is listed as Martha Higson. I've found a marriage for Edwin Higson and Martha Berry. In 1901 there's an entry for Alice Berry, neice.
Have looked for a Chadwick/Berry marriage, but no luck so far.
Please can you find any earlier  census entries for Ben?
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 15:38 GMT (UK)
Isn't martha more likely to be related to Edith (bejamin's wife) -as they were born in the same place

1901 shows
Chorley Rd
Blackpool
Edwin Higson Head 42 M Foreman Joiner Yorks Clayon West
Jane mother W 72 Yorks Clayton West
Frank son 14 Errand boy Bazaar Blackpool
Gerald son 10 Blackpool
Gladys daughter 8 Poulton le Fylde
RG13 3973 35  26

no martha!!!

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Thursday 13 December 07 15:51 GMT (UK)
Yes, I think Martha was Edith's sister, but she married a Higson and the Higson/Berry marriage seems the most likely I can find.  Looking at your last post, it would seem to fit. That would make Edith's maiden name Berry. But no Chadwick/Berry marriage found yet as FreeBMD too busy to complete search.
A 'Berry' niece (1901) would mean that a sister of Ben married a Berry. Or perhaps she was Edith's niece?
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Thursday 13 December 07 16:16 GMT (UK)
Hi,

LancashireBMD has a Benjamin Towler Chadwick marrying in 1868 to a Susannah Jane Lister at St. James, Burnley.† This would fit with their first child being 12 on the 1881 census.

1890 Blackpool:
Benjamin Towler Chadwick married an Edith Hampson at Holy Trinity, South Shore, Blackpool.

Looks like the same guy to me. :)

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 16:17 GMT (UK)
Don't think Edith's maiden name was Berry
Hope you can follow this

 the berry neice would be neice to Both Edith and Ben (as they were married ) -but what you need to know is which side of the family she came from - I think she came from Edith's side - and Edith's maiden name was Hampson!

First I'll start with Martha's husband in 1891 (while martha was with Ben and Edith)
1891
Vicarage lane
Marton
Lancs
J.H.Page head M 39 Slater Heywood lancs
Mary Page wife 49 Wigan
John Page son 6 Bury
James Page son 8 Bury
Polly Holst daughter 13 Nurse Bury
Anne Holst daughter 6 Bury
Jane Higson Lodger W 62 Yorks Huddersfield Clayton West
Edwin Higson Lodger M 32 Joiner Yorks Huddersfield Clayton West
Gerald Higson Lodger's son 2 Blackpool
RG12 3455 88 16

so it looks likeley the Edwin Higson /martha Berry marriage you found is correct

1881 Edwin still in Yorks U with mother and sisters

Which takes us to 1881 (image VERY difficult to read)
8 Carlton Rd
Burnley
Martha berry head †M 27 Lodging House keeper Sale Cheshire
John son 5 Australia (looks like?)
Alice daughter 3 manchester
Lucy A Hampson sister U 17 Asst Housekeeper Sale Cheshire
John T Kettle Lodger M 26 1st class Asst HM Inland revenue Bourne lincs
Mary A Kettle Lodger wife Ruyton Shrops
RG11 4151 13 20

1861
Sale Cheshire
Hullbank? Terrace
James hampson head m 29 Landsurveyor Sale Cheshire
Alice wife 25 Manchester lancs
Martha daughter 7 Sale
Elizabeth daughter 5 Sale
Florence 3 sale
Edith 9mths Sale
RG9 2591 99 38

so it looks like Edith's sister martha married Mr berry and then married Edwin Higson

and Edith was Edith hampson as Mo found in the marriage reg!!!

(working well again, Mo)

will look for Edith and martha in 1871

Suz


Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 16:28 GMT (UK)
This is interesting
Bejamin (seemingly) married Susannah jane lister

It seems Edith's sister married a lister too!
1881
11 Williow St
Burnley
Richard E Lister head M 28 tailor Burnley
Elizabeth wife 25 Sale Cheshire
Clarence son 5 Manchester
Arthur L son 2 Burnley
EDITH HAMPSON sister in law 19 Sale Cheshire
Richard Walch servant U 26 Tailor Blackpool
RG11 4152 26 45

looking in 71 now

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Thursday 13 December 07 16:32 GMT (UK)
Thanks, everyone,
I'm still here and trying to keep up.
I've just remembered. The R. in Edith's name stands for Royle. Don't know if that's any help.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 16:37 GMT (UK)
No Edith yet -but a little bonus
Martha and Elizabeth are with Grandparents

1871
Warrener St
Sale
John Warriner Head M 61 Stone Mason Whittle lancs
Elizabeth wife 57 Salford lancs
Elizabeth daughter U 23 manchester
MARTHA HAMPSON Granddaughter U 17 Milliner's apprentice Sale Cheshire
ELIZABETH HAMPSON granddaughter Sale Cheshire
Hannah Bowers Srevant U 23 General Servant Knutsford Cheshire
RG10 3685 7 6

Where is Edith???

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Thursday 13 December 07 16:38 GMT (UK)
Hi,

You`re working well too Suz. :)

By the way, †extra info regarding Benjamins marriage to Susannah:

11th October, 1868 St. James Burnley
His father was Robert Chadwick and her father was Richard Lister

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 17:06 GMT (UK)
I have another possibilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't find edith in 1871 but.......................

there are several deaths of james hampson between 1861-1871

then.....

there is this marriage

Sept qtr 1867
Manchester
on same page
Alice hampson
James Heiffer
8d 333

then......

1871
68 Thomas St
manchester
James Heiffer Head M 27 Joiner manchester
Alice Heiffer wife 35 Coffee House Keeper Manchester
Theresa H Heiffer daughter 14 Sale Cheshire
Edith H Heiffer daughter 11 Sale Cheshire
Lucy A H Heiffer daughter 8 Sale Cheshire
Edmund L N Heiffer son 3mth Manchester
William hawksworth Boarder U 34 Porter Derbyshire
RG10 4046 66 3

This is possibly your Edith
also I can only find a birth of Lucy Amy Hampson -not one of Heiffer


don't know where Theresa fits in yet

and there is Edith's sister Florence to find!!

Do you think this is a possibility????

Wonder where Royle comes from???

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 17:15 GMT (UK)
I think possibly Theresa of 1871 is Florence of 1861!!!

and it seems like the Hampson girls of 1871 have been given the initial "H" before the Heiffer name -possibly they went as Hampson -Heiffer (only to be said when sober!!!)

????????

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 17:25 GMT (UK)
According to the marriage reg to Susannah -benjamin was benjamin Towler Chadwick

there is this birth which may be his son
Benjamin Towler Chadwick
Jun qtr 1882 Burnley
8e 204
and  a death Sept qtr 1882
Burnley

could explain the "gap" in children for Benjamin and Susannah

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 17:27 GMT (UK)
I have found benjamin on 1861 with parents (father Robert)

will post it after I've cooked tea -unless anyone else posts it before

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Thursday 13 December 07 17:33 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Unfortunately I don`t think his parents married until 1850 :'(† This would explain the Towler part.

Robert Chadwick aged 23 married Alice Towler aged 21 at Holy Trinity, Habergham Eaves (Burnley) on 11th July, 1850

His father was Robert Chadwick and her father was Thomas Towler.

I can find Robert and Alice on the 1851 census but I`m blowed if I can find where the heck Benjamin is.† He isn`t with Thomas Towler.  Just Edited this bit I think I have found them under Tuder - don`t ask!  Will post in a minute.

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 18:19 GMT (UK)
he might be with Thomas
mo, could you have a look at
1851
HO107 2252 85 27

Transcribed "Thomas Tudor" age 62 - he has 1 yr old grandson Benjamin with him -I think the name should be Towler -image very faint and I am in a rush-so can't study it until later

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Thursday 13 December 07 18:55 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Exactly what I thought Suz.† Image is very bad and my disc won`t work (overused in this area) so I can`t see if the image is any better.

93 Finsley Bk, Habergham Eaves
HO107/2252 Folio 85 Page 27

Thomas Towler/Tuder?, Head M, 62, Hawker, Burnley
Hannah, Wife, M, 53, Burnley
John, Son, W, 30, Power Loom Weaver Cotton, Burnley
Robert, Son, U, 18, Power Loom Weaver Cotton, Burnley
Alice, Grand ?, 10, Nurse, Habergham
BENJAMIN, Grand ?. 1, Habergham

The same family in the 1841 have been transcribed as Fowles!!! If you want the details let me know.† Finally in 1861 they were transcribed as Towler but Thomas had died.

By the way 'Royle' is probably a Burnley thing I think.† There is a Royle Road, and there was a Royle Hall if I remember.†

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Thursday 13 December 07 19:16 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all that. You people are amazing!
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Thursday 13 December 07 21:50 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Just enlarged the image for 1851 -and agree word for word with Mo's transcription

The name is definately Towler (but can understand why it was transcribed as Tuder

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Friday 14 December 07 13:29 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone. I think that's about it.

*completed*
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Sunday 05 April 09 17:49 BST (UK)
Maybe I can give some information about Edith Royle Chadwick. She was my Grandmother, so I know a lot about her and her family. Indeed her father married twice, first to Suzanna Lister with whom he had 2 children and later to Edith Hampson (my great grandmother). They had 10 children! I know some of the stories about my great uncles and met some of my great aunts (Edith Royle's sisters). The descendants of the first marriage are living in Brazil. I've mailed with one of them. Afterall it's a small world. The information I have of their birth and marriage dates is reasonably accurate.
I hope to obtain some information about my great grandfather Benjamin (Towler). The only thing I know is that he was born in 1849/1850 in hotel The Bull's Head in Burnley (Lancashire), there was enough money for a good education and that he was deputy secretary of Burnley in his thirties. He died in Moss side near Manchester in 1907.
I'm very interested in information about his mother or father.
Like to hear from any of you!
EG1
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Tuesday 07 April 09 10:14 BST (UK)
Is there anyone who could confirm the marriage between Benjamin Chadwick (b.1849/1850 Burnley) and Edith Hampson?? According to the post of Mo this marriage was in 1890, Holy Tr. South Shore Blackpool.   But I know they had their first child in 1884 and their second in 1885, so I think the marriage should have taken place well before 1890??
EG
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Tuesday 07 April 09 11:45 BST (UK)
Hi eg1,
I'm very interested to hear you are a descendant of Edith Royle Chadwick. If you send me a PM we can exchange further info.
Vaison
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Tuesday 07 April 09 21:54 BST (UK)
Hi Vaison,
I just send a post to Suz (see below)
If you want some info about Edith Royle, I think I can help you with that. From my grandmother herself (she died in 1988) and from some research by my uncle a have a reasonable complete picture of the Chadwick family. Unfortunately it stops with Benjamin.
Like I said before I only know that he was born in hotel Bull's head in Burnley.
So if you have some questions, ask me.


Thank you for your quick reaction Suz..
Looking for my great grandfather Benjamin Chadwick on internet I accidentally saw your "discussions" last December with Vaison ?? and Mosiefish ?? on this site. The primary question was the whereabouts of Edith Royle Chadwick who happened to be my grandmother.
I have a lot of information for Vaison?? about Edith Royle and her family (first hand), but I have also some questions about all the information you and Mosiefish found out.

For instance it appears that Benjamin (Towler) Chadwick (b. 1849/50 Burnley, Lancs. ) married for the second time in 1890 with a Edith Hampson (b.1860 Sale Lancs.). This is in line with the info Mo found that his first wife Susanna Lister (b.1949) died in 1890!!
But I know from my grandmother that she had 10 sisters and brothers, the first one Mary was born in 1884 (she died soon afterwards), the second (Gertrude) in 1885, also Lilian and Beatrice all four born before 1990! I'm sure they are the daughters of Edith Hampson and not of his first wife of whom he had only two boys.
So Benjamin had some (unlawful) children whilst married with his first wife or the marriagedate of Benjamin x Edith is not 1890 but earlier??
Can you do me a favor and find out if 1890 is really the correct marriage date?

Furthermore Mo mentioned a 1841 censuslisting of  of the fam. Towler (according to her in the transcription the name is wrongly spelled "Fowles"??) Regretfully she didn't put it in her post. Maybe you can find this info to?

I hope you can find anything, thank you
Regards EG

(Please don't mind my English, I'm Dutch so its still somewhat difficult)
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Tuesday 07 April 09 22:20 BST (UK)
Hi EG,

Mosiefish is still around† ;D ;D† I think this is the one I found but not entirely sure.† Will have to look back and check.†

1841 census:
HO107/508/4 Folio 37 page 22

Finsley, Habergham Eaves

Thos Towler/Fowles?, 50, Weaver
Hannah, 45
Benjn, 19 or 17, Weaver
Alice, 13,
Robt, 8
/
John Laycock, 11
John Towler/Fowles, 21, Joiner
Jane† ", 28
Alice ", 1

All born in County.

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 07 April 09 22:37 BST (UK)
Hi Mosie - am just going through this again for eg1 - and it looks like Benjamin's marriage to Edith was reg same quarter as the death of Susannah jane - although in different districts

But there is a possibiity susannah jane and Edith were related - I'm looking into that at the moment -so bear with me - it may take a while -and I could be mistaken

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Tuesday 07 April 09 22:49 BST (UK)
Hi Suz,

Nice to know you are on the trail too - had to refresh the old memory cells for this one  ;D

Eg,  you can check the marriage out in 1890 yourself by going to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Tuesday 07 April 09 22:58 BST (UK)
Thanks Mo,
I think it's the same family; address is the same!!
Thos for Thomas and Hannah are there.
Only the age of both (and their children) is a littlebit funny.
In your output (last December) of Census 1851 Thomas is 62; 10 years earlier (1841) he is 50 (12 years diff.)?? † In 1951 Hannah is 53; 10 years before she is 45 (8 years diff.)
It seems the age of this people was not so relevant?
Age John; 21-> 30 , OK
Age Robert 8-> 11 years, only 3 years older in 10 years??
Benjamin (other than "our" Benj.) and Jane have probably left the house?
But in the 1841Census there is no age given for Alice: is this the Alice mentioned in the Census 1851"Alice Grand? 10, Nurse??? or is the Alice, mother of "our" Benjamin. She should be 12 in 1841!
So, nobody said it was simple!!

But I'm gratefull for this info and I keep puzzling. Again thanks
Regards, EG
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Tuesday 07 April 09 23:12 BST (UK)
Hi Eg,

On the 1841 census ages above 15 were supposedly rounded down to the nearest 0 or 5 so if Thomas was 62 on the 1851 census he would have been 50 on the 1841 census.† The image is really bad on the 1851 census so Hannah could have been 55.† Robert was 8 on the 1841 census and 18 on the 1851 (my fault I typed 11).† Your Alice was 13 on the 1841 census and there was also another Alice aged 1 who I think was John and Jane Towlers child.† She is the Alice aged 10 on the 1851 census.

Hope this makes sense.

Mo
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Tuesday 07 April 09 23:16 BST (UK)
Suz, your remark that Susannah and Edith could be related is maybe true?
Edith was (according to your info) lodger in the Lister family (Richard Lister, son of Richard Lister, father of Susanna) With a little fantasy it's possible that Benjamin and his first wife Susanna often visited their brother / brother in law Richard Lister. When the relation between Benjamin and Susanna went wrong ?? (I heard some familystories that Susanna became mentally ill and ended up in a special home??), Benjamin fancied Edith and later on married with her?? In that case you could say, he wasn't a gentleman, having children with Edith whilst still married with Susanna?? †But its only a guess??
EG
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 07 April 09 23:26 BST (UK)
What you really need (to prove/disprove) family stories is Susannah's death cert - this would give place and cause of death.
Maybe if she did have a mental illness then Edith came to help out with the children or to be housekeeper - I feel she knew the family -and was possibly trusted by the family .

What you also need is the birth certs of the children you thought were of Edith -before marriage =to see who is named as parents????

I think Susannah jane Lister was the sister of Richard E Lister who married Elizabeth ( Edith Hampsons sister)

and Susannah jane and Richard E were the children of Richard lister and jane

More in a mo - just thought of something I need to check

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Tuesday 07 April 09 23:28 BST (UK)
Thanks Mo, your info makes sense, so Alice (mother of Benjamin) belongs indeed to this family Towler.
I have only one question left. Maybe you (as pro's) know if the suffix "Towler" with Benjamin "Towler" Chadwick generally spoken means that Benjamin was born (1849) before Alice married Robert (1850)?? and he got this "suffix" of his mothers name??
Familystories also relate to a relation of Alice with some rich guy?? They told me this could explain why he got a very good education??
Maybe this is all nonsense, I only wanted to know.
Regards
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 08 April 09 00:19 BST (UK)
I'll just get back to the Listers

hope you can follow me???

Although i can find the birth reg of Susannah jane Lister -I cannot find her with her parents

there is a baptism record on IGI -but t is only submitted - so has to be treated with caution - it gives the parents of Susannah jane as Richard Lister/jane

I think this is quite possibly correct

Which means Susannah was the sister of Richard E Lister who married Elizabeth (Edith hampsons sister)

I can't locate any of the Lister family in 1851

It seems 1861 susannah and her sister mary were in a large boarding school -
Casterton Westmorland
Mary lister Pupil 14 Burnley lancs
Susannah lister pupil15 Burnley
RG9 3967 91 21

their parents were still in lancs

1861
9 Coal St lancs
Richard Lister head m 40 Draper & Tailor emmp 14 women 5 men Burnley
Jane wife 40 Clne lancs
Elizabeth daughter 16 Burnley
Richard son 9 Burnley
John son 7 Burnley
jane daughter 1 burnley
RG9 306 5 16 25


1861 is only census I can find Susannah on pre marriage

more in a mo

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 08 April 09 00:21 BST (UK)
I have just found something which is interesting !!!-well I think it is!!!!

back in a mo

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 08 April 09 01:05 BST (UK)
the siblings of your grandmother are(i believe)

Mary (died in infancy)
Gertrude A
lilian
beatrice
Edith R (gran)
Muriel
Iris Victoria
Eric Warrener
Vivienne(twin)
mona (twin)
Julian Ellis

possibly the children from your grandmother onwards were legitimate.

all of the children were b Manchester -except gertrude A who was b Blackpool

possibly gertrude a was in fact Alice gertrude and was registered in mother's maiden name

Ill have a think about this and be back tomorrow

Suz

In 1891 they were living t 25 fairlawn St

1901 122 cecil st

1911 22 Fairlawn St
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Wednesday 08 April 09 01:07 BST (UK)
Hi,

Really must go to bed but found Richard Lister in my directories on St. James Street, Burnley under Tailors.

1851 census has this:

71 St. James Row, Burnley

Jane Lister, Head, Mar, 30, Tailor and Clothes Dealer, born Colne
Elizabeth A, 6, Habergham Eaves
SUSANNA, 4, Burnley
John R Greenwood, 18, Tailors Shopman, Colne

Night All,
Mo
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 08 April 09 01:10 BST (UK)
Well done, mo - so our assumptions were correct !

have a good sleep - Im having a little rest from this topic† but will be back to it later

Night

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Wednesday 08 April 09 09:46 BST (UK)
Hi everyone,
Only just getting back to this and saw all your activity from yesterday evening. Haven't looked at Chadwicks for a while, so have to take time to absorb your latest findings.
However, I have just had a look at marriages on FreeBMD and there is also a marriage for 1890 Q2 in Fylde (Blackpool district) for Benjamin TowlerChadwick. Possible spouses are Annie Metcalfe or Jane Boardman. If this is the same Ben, he certainly seems to have been playing around, given that Susannah's death is reg. in same quarter, and that there's also the marriage to Edith.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Wednesday 08 April 09 14:04 BST (UK)
Hi, Vaison and others,
Just a little time to spare, so have a look again on this site!

Vaison, maybe Benjamin was a littlebit impatient but marrying twice in the same year is somewhat strange. It is also not consistent with our familystories. Mo mentioned in December last another Benjamin Towler Chadwick, but he was in 1890 8 years old (b. 1882 Yorkshire - West Riding), a little young to wed. So I don't know who this guy can be?? (It's strange because the "Towler"bit seems to refer to the Towlerfamily?? a unique combination?)
Possibly the census recorded the wrong spouse, since Benj.'s wedding with Edith also took place in Blackpool (1890 at Holy Trinity, South Shore, Blackpool)???

The fact (is it??) that another Benjamin Chadwick was born (1882) with the suffix Towler puzzles me still. Within our family nobody has ever heard of him!

Again a lot of questions, but I must say, it's fun to work out!
Besides Suz and Mo thank you very much for all your energy finding out all the info concerning my family. Suz was completely right with her listing of my grandma's siblings.

Mary (died in infancy)
Alice Gertrude, called Betty
Lilian (died shortly after birth)
Beatrice
Edith Royle (gran)
Muriel Primrose
Iris Victoria (lived very long, >1990)
Eric Warrener,  -> the Warrener part as a tribute tot his mothers Grandfather????
Vivienne(twin) ->Indeed aunty Viv & Mona (lived also very long)
Monica (twin)
Julian Ellis

and also with the brothers and sisters of Edith Chadwick-Hampson

Martha called Patty
Elisa or Elisabeth called Lilly
Lucy
Florence (Edith Royle stayed with her for a while)
Edith


Sorry, I have to quit now Bye all

Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: vaison on Wednesday 08 April 09 17:27 BST (UK)
Hi,
What makes you think that Lilian (Grandma's sister) died shortly after birth?
She is shown alive and living with the family in Manchester in both the 1901 and 1911 censuses.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: mosiefish on Wednesday 08 April 09 17:28 BST (UK)
Eg,

The Benjamin Towler Chadwick born in the June Quarter in Burnley 1882 also died in September Quarter of the same year in Burnley. †So more than likely he was the son of Benjamin and Susannah. †

Also the reason that Benjamin Towler appears on the same page of marriages as Annie Metcalfe and Jane Boardman is that his reference number has been mistranscribed as 1063 instead of 1068. †Hence there are five names on the page when there should only be a maximum of four. †

You can view all the marriages at www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Jane Boardman married Walter Cragg at St. Chad Poulton le Fylde and Annie Metcalfe married John Whiteside at St. Chad Poulton le Fylde. †

Regards,
Mo


Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 08 April 09 17:59 BST (UK)
Hi all,

Lilian is alive and well on the 1891/1901 (and possibly 1911) census

Gertrude is listed as gertrude A on census - the only one of the children b Blackpool - but I thought her name was possible Alce gertrude - which eg has confirmed - so it seems her birth reg was not in the name of Chadwick but in the maiden nae of her mother Edith

Suz
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Wednesday 08 April 09 18:42 BST (UK)
Hi all, just  short message. 
Sorry i.q. my remark about Lilians death, it was not Lilian who died shortly after birth, but Lucy (born between Murial and Iris) therefore she isn't mentionend on the Census list.

Mo, your conclusion about Benj T. Chadwick, born and died in 1882, could be true (and more or less logic) But in our family is this child not known, maybe I can ask a aunt who still lives.
Bye all
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: Jaddy on Sunday 25 October 09 05:29 GMT (UK)
I was fascinated to read your posts about the James and Alice Hampson from Cheshire as they are ancestors of mine. Can anyone tell me more about James Hampson? Who were his parents, etc?
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Sunday 15 November 09 22:25 GMT (UK)
Nice to hear that there is more family of James & ALice Hampson on-line!
Unfortunately I couldn't find any family of James Hampson (other than his children). The only information on him that I heard from my Grandmother (his Grandchild) is that he was said to be the architect of Manchester Central Station, but I couldn't find any proof of this. However I do have a picture of ALice (Warrener), her daughters Martha and Edith an her father John Warrener (taken in 1867).
Sorry that I can't help you on this matter. But I'm still interested which of Edith sisters is your family?
Regards Eg1
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: Jaddy on Tuesday 24 November 09 00:47 GMT (UK)
I've just received a copy of James Hampson's Last Will and Testament in which he names Alice, his wife, and her father John Warriner of New Moston, near Failworth as beneficaries. James Hampson's occupation is given as Land Surveyor. Looking at Google Earth, it seems there is a Hampson Street in Sale, close to a James Street, an Alice Street, and a Warrener Street. The Will was proved at Chester on 2 Sept 867 and states that James died 26 August 1866. George Peter Leigh, a friend of James' was an executor, along with Alice and her father John Warriner.
Martha Hampson is my great grandmother and John Warriner is my great-great-great grandfather so I would be thrilled to receive copies of their photos if that's possible.
Regards
Jaddy
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: sjm2 on Saturday 08 October 11 12:48 BST (UK)
Hi, I've just come across these posts, and consequently joined RootsChat.  James and Alice Hampson are ancestors of mine.  Their daughter Alice Amy married William Crook Massey - they are my great great grandparents.  The early censuses suggest that James was brought up by an unmarried aunt, Martha Barlow (who had an annuity) in Moor Lane, Sale.  I haven't managed to find anything else about him, other than that he was a land surveyor and he died before Alice Amy's marriage.  And nothing about his father in law John Warriner.  So any other information you have about them would be terrific.  I'd love a copy of your photo of Alice and her father if that's possible.
The architect of Manchester Central Station is listed as Sir John Fowler, and in any case it was built some time after James' death - but could he have been involved with the project earlier as a surveyor?

Regards
sjm2
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Saturday 08 October 11 15:13 BST (UK)
Hi SJM, again a distant relative on line, nice! So now there are 3 of the "Hampson"-sisters in view. My grandmother remembered Edith Hampson's sister as Lucy Amy (not Alice Amy)? and she married indeed a William Massey. Their child Edith married an Italian? My grandmother seemed to have held close contact with her. I am a little bit lost about where the Warreners and Hampsons came from. Info from different sources is contradictory. John Warrener came from Whittle?? or from the South of England??
If you give me your E-mail-address, I can mail you the picture of "Grandfather John" with his children and grandchildren and the Hampson pedigree as far as I know.

Regards eg1
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: sjm2 on Saturday 08 October 11 15:45 BST (UK)
Gosh, that was quick!  I should have written Lucy Amy, not Alice.  I'm just finding my way around the system, and I think I have to do another post before I can send you a PM with my email address.
Incidentally, I can't find your earlier posts about James and Alice that are referred to.  I don't know anything about William and Lucy's daughter Edith - must investigate.  The children I know about are William Hamo (my great grandfather) and  there was another daughter Lucy A (presumably another Lucy Amy).  Where does your grandmother fit in?

Regards

sjm2
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Saturday 08 October 11 16:00 BST (UK)
My grandmother is the daughter of Lucy Amy's sister Edith who married a Chadwick. When you receive my mail it will be more transparent, I hope.
Regards eg1
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: Jaddy on Tuesday 06 December 11 06:27 GMT (UK)
I'm wondering if Martha Barlow is James Hampson great-aunt, ie his mother's maternal aunt. St Martin's church records show a James Hampson was baptised on 17 July 1831 and his mother is Martha Hampson (spinster). There's an entry for a Martha Hampson being christened at the same church  on 3 May 1812 (born 28 March 1812) and her father is William Hampson and mother Jane. A Jane Barlow is listed as being baptised 6 September 1789 and her father is Robert Barlow and Martha. Robert and Martha Barlow had another child christened on 4 May 1783 and her name was Martha. I can't say with certainty that this is the ancestry of James Hampson who married Alice Warrender as we can't be certain that the 10 year old James Hampson who was living with Martha Barlow is the same. However, it may be worth exploring further. The same records show a Martha Barlow being buried on 9 August 1852, aged 69.
There's a wedding entry in St Martin's records on 18 October 1852 for James Hampson (age 21) and Alice Warriner (age 17) which shows James' occupation as "Yeoman". Witnesses:  Henry Hetheringt and Wm Stapleton. Alice's father is John (a stonemason).
The same church records show the baptisms of five girls whose parents are James and Alice Hampson: Martha (26 June 1853); Elizabeth (8 April 1855); Florence (18 October 1857); Edith (8 July 1863); Lucy Ann (8 June 1863). Their father's occupation is Land Surveyor.
The same church records show that James Hampson, Land Surveyor, was buried 30 August 1866, aged 35. A note shows that One Guinea was paid to the church.
I would really like a copy of the photo of Alice Hampson (nee Warrender) and her parents if possible.
Jaddy
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: Jaddy on Tuesday 06 December 11 10:32 GMT (UK)
I should have cited the source for St Martin's church records in my last post. It's the Chester Parish Register Project at http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk
St Martin's Church is at Ashton-upon-Mersey, Cheshire.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: sjm2 on Tuesday 06 December 11 12:18 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for this.  I have a copy of James Hampson & Alice Warriner's marriage certificate, and that gives the witnesses as Henry Wellington and William Stapleton.  I'll send you the photo that another poster sent me.

Sarah
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Thursday 03 May 12 22:57 BST (UK)
Hello all, after quite some time again an attempt to reveal some secrets of the Edith Royle family. My latest question concerns Edith Royle's Father Benjamin (Towler) Chadwick. I think I found his birth record in the LANCS BMD register as Benjamin Towler in 1849, but there is no baptism of Benjamin Towler (or Chadwick) to be found on the site of LAN OPC (Lancashire online parish project). What I did find was the baptism of a "Benjamin Parker?" and "Alice Parker?" as his mother! Could the question marks mean that the names were difficult to read and perhaps wrongly interpreted?. Could the original surname be "Towler"? Is there anyone who could check for me  the original writing of this record? I donít know if this information is available on internet, but I am very curious if this is the right record and all the available information for that matter like the location/address of his birth and so on.

This is the LAN OPC record:
Baptisms: 21 Oct 1849 St Peter, Burnley, Lancashire, England
Benjamin Parker? - Child of Alice Parker?, Spinster
    Abode: Finsley Gate, Habergham Eaves
    Baptised by: Jas. Bardsley
    Register: Baptisms 1841 - 1850, Page 360, Entry 2871
    Source: LDS Film 1517690
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: Jaddy on Monday 01 December 14 01:54 GMT (UK)
"BMD UK free" shows Benjamin Towler was born in 1849 at Burnley (21 209) and that Alice Towler married Robert Chadwick at Burnley in 1850 (21 194)
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: Greatdutchalex on Wednesday 10 February 16 14:28 GMT (UK)
Edith Royle Chadwick married in Holland Johan Christiaan Frederik Schor.
Here a link to her in the Geni Big Tree :
http://www.geni.com/people/Edith-Schor/6000000011403476407?from_flash=1&fsession_id=1455113036863&through=6000000011403476407

Greetings from Holland
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: annecybracken on Sunday 19 February 17 13:22 GMT (UK)
I just came across your posts about the Chadwick family and their ancestors. I realise they were written a while ago now.
My grandmother was Iris Victoria Chadwick (who died in 2001, aged 104!). I would love to see the photo of Alice Warriner (Hampson) and her children and father if anyone would be able to send me a copy.
many thanks!
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: eg1 on Saturday 08 April 17 17:21 BST (UK)
Hi Annecy, saw your post just now. What a surprise to hear that my great-aunt Iris lived that long! I always thought her sister(my grandmother) Edith Royle, outlived her sisters! She died at the respectable age of 97! I am happy to oblige in sending you the photo you mentioned. Please give me your email adress (in private mode or so?) and I'll sent it forthwith! If you're interested, I'll have a lot of additional information concerning the "Chadwick sisters"http: :)
Eg
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: annecybracken on Saturday 08 April 17 21:44 BST (UK)
Hi eg1,

Lovely to hear back from you! I need to have three posts before I can send you a personal message, so Iíll add some more information to the forum in another post shortly.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: annecybracken on Sunday 09 April 17 11:45 BST (UK)
I'm interested in finding out about either of the Chadwick family parents' histories.

Searching on the web for documents, I found an Alice Hampson marrying James Heiffor in 1867, the year after James Hampson died, and having a son Edmund (Edmund Lewes Warrinse - or maybe Warriner?) in 1871. I also found a record of Alice Hampson being admitted to Prestwich Asylum in 1884. The son Edmund seems to have died aged 4 in 1875 and James Heiffor to have remarried in 1878. Alice Hampson died in the asylum in 1884. I wonder if anyone has information to indicate whether these are the same Alice Hampson, or whether these are records for someone with the same name?

My own memories of the Chadwick family are of visits as a child in the 1960s and 70s in the summer holidays, while staying with my grandmother (Iris) to 23 Range Road, where Viv and Mona and Betty still lived.
Title: Re: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901
Post by: Jaddy on Wednesday 28 February 18 05:31 GMT (UK)
I'm interested in finding out about either of the Chadwick family parents' histories.

Searching on the web for documents, I found an Alice Hampson marrying James Heiffor in 1867, the year after James Hampson died, and having a son Edmund (Edmund Lewes Warrinse - or maybe Warriner?) in 1871. I also found a record of Alice Hampson being admitted to Prestwich Asylum in 1884. The son Edmund seems to have died aged 4 in 1875 and James Heiffor to have remarried in 1878. Alice Hampson died in the asylum in 1884. I wonder if anyone has information to indicate whether these are the same Alice Hampson, or whether these are records for someone with the same name?

My own memories of the Chadwick family are of visits as a child in the 1960s and 70s in the summer holidays, while staying with my grandmother (Iris) to 23 Range Road, where Viv and Mona and Betty still lived.

BMD index shows Alice Heiffor died in 1875, age 39; Registry: Chorlton [now South Manchester] 8c 590