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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: Ayashi on Friday 04 January 08 16:05 GMT (UK)
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I'm having some trouble tracking down one Theophilus Jones. On two censuses (Plymouth), he is written as having been born in Carmarthen Llanfrengal. After discussing this with some Welsh people, we thought it might be a misspelling/Anglicisation (is that a word?) of Llanfihangel in Carmarthenshire. Unfortunately that has brought me no closer. The census before puts his birth place, if it is him, as Llanfihangel Aereddia (which we thought might be a misspelling of Llanfihangel-ar-Arth?) and I found an entry on a website, about the right time and place, for Llanfihangel Abercowen.
Someone recommended this site to me. I didn't know if anyone could help or give me any advice on this... I think he was born in 1863 (the website put it at 3 qr 1863, which would be about right) and I'm trying to track his military records to find out when he moved from Wales to Devon, but I don't know how to get those either (has anyone else managed it?)
Thanks...
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is that him on the 1881 at LLandefeilog Carmarthenshire father Theopilus mother Elizabeth? to give us some sort of starting point.
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Hello Ayashi, a warm welcome to Rootschat :)
Could you give refs to census you found him, and which ones you need?
I have only come up with one of same namesake 1863 +/- 2 yrs Carmarthen the same as you found
1871 - Piece: 5496; Folio: 48; Page: 20
Llanfihangel Abercywyn
Theophilus Jones age 7 born Llanfihangel Abercowin, Carmarthenshire parents Walter & Elizabeth and also siblings
Cas
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Freebmd gives these births between 1860 - 1870, if you give census details perhaps we can help pin down birth? Carmarthen would be right reg area for Llanfihangel
Births Sep 1863
JONES Theophilus Carmarthen 11a 627
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Births Sep 1865
Jones Theophilus Carmarthen 11a 678
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Births Mar 1867
Jones Theophilus Carmarthen 11a 683
hoping to help
Cas
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Checked the 1891 & 1901 think this is a very likely marriage which would give you fathers names.
Marriages Dec 1887
Hamley Elizabeth Jane Plympton 5b 417
Hamly Elizabeth Jane Plympton 5b 417
JONES Theophilus Plympton 5b 417
Also he has a son named Walter in 1901 mistranscribed 'Walker' 1891. 1891 gives pob as Llanfihangel, so looks likely the 1871 is prob correct...
I would post on the military board with what you know of his career, they are great..I had excellent results from there...
Cas
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We have the birth certificate of his son Walter (my g-grandfather) dated 1890 (father Theophilus Jones, mother Elizabeth Jane Jones, formerly Uglow). He was in East Stonehouse, Plymouth on the 1891 census with wife, stepdaughter (Annie Lititia Walker), daughter Elizabeth Ann and son Walter. He is in the same place in 1901 with Walter and daughter Esther Mary (I can't remember if the older daughter is there, but Annie has gone). Annie was born in Kent in 1881 and Elizabeth was 1888 so I presume they were married between those two dates (although not necessarily...) I found A Theophilus in Carmarthen St Peter in 1881 (aged 18) and I just have a feeling about him. That's the one who was supposed to have been born in Llanfihangel Aereddia. I can't confirm that he is the right one, of course, but he was the most likely candidate of all the records I found in the 1881 census (we have disks from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints).
Cas, the one with father Walter would make sense if he called his son Walter... That was quite a common thing. I think 1867 would be far too late. 1865 is possible, but something about it doesn't strike with me. On his death record (military, 1916) his age is given as 52, if I recall correctly. I reckon he hadn't had his birthday yet when he died. I favour 1863, although that could just be myself leading me the wrong way ::)
I'll go to the military board now. Thanks!
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Cannot locate marriage... >:( wondered if she was married before with daughter in 1881 but cannot locate under Walker, Uglow, maybe mistranscribed...cannot see them living in forces accom. without being legal....
Checked all census as you mention, think 1881 is very near match, possible parents are still in Carms 1881
Hope you get good results from armed forces board....let us know
best of luck
Cas
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Walter's birth certificate is written in very good handwriting and clearly says 'Uglow', although having said that I don't think it is the original copy and someone might have misread/mistranscribed from the original. Uglow is a real surname though, and the right area...
Theo changed his age on every census he was on, so that doesn't help us find his DoB...
I like the option you found for 1871- naming your son after your father was common practice, so it's a good possibility. I'll put that top priority for checking out... although proving it isn't exactly 100%...
Unfortunately that brings 1881 into conflict. Yonder Peasant offered a possibility and I have the one about Carmarthen St Peter, in which he isn't living with his family.
Cas, I would like to say now that I appreciate everything you've done for me so far :) When someone said this was a brilliant site, they weren't kidding x
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P.S, on Elizabeth Uglow, she was born c.1860 so she couldn't have had that many marriages before Theo... The pair of them are pains in the backsides...
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This is very confusing! ;D
I can't see how Annie Letitia can be a step-daughter unless at least one of her step-parents was a WALKER or was married to one at some point!
This looks like her birth:
Birth
Sep 1881
WALKER Annie Letitia
Launceston 5c 26
UGLOW seems to be a west country name (just to clarify - your earlier post on this thread suggested it came from Carmarthenshire to me)
The Elizabeths in Broadwood in the earlier censuses aren't called UGLOW though ...
All of which doesn't find your Carms village
Welcome to the joy of RootsChat!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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There's an Elizabeth HAMBEY born Broadwoodwidger in earlier censuses, who would match the marriage that Cas found earlier.
Might be worth taking a risk on that certificate - which would give you Theo's father's details if correct.
Other than that, Annie's birth cert or that of one of the other children.
Sorry I can't think of anything more helpful than that.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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After Arranroots post, took another look for Eliz Jane Hamly/Hamley to see if I could match her with Broadwoodwidger
whooohoo :o it is the right marriage, FH nose said so... was shocked with maiden name Uglow.
Take a peep at this....
1861 - RG9; Piece: 1519; Folio: 37; Page: 2
Civil Parish: Broadwood Widger
Reg district: Launceston
Richard Hamly 64 head, mar, farmer of 90 acres, Broadwoodwidger
Charlotte Hamly 46 wife Devon Virginstow
Elizabeth Hamly 24 dau, Lifton
John Hamly 22 son, "
Thomas Hamly 17 son, "
Elizh Jane Uglow Hamly 2 dau, Broadwood Widger, Devon
Jabez Dingle 17, serv, carter, Devon ?
Think it possible she is grandau to Richard & Charlotte and dau eliz. is her mother, could be illegit ?
Births Jun 1859
HAMLEY Elizabeth Jane Uglow Launceston 5c 25
:) ;) :D ;D
Will leave it to you to search the rest of census, if you need help give us a post on Rootchat :-*
Update.... :-[ sorry could not resist 1871 - RG10; Piece: 2223; Folio: 58; Page: 3 in Cornwall down as Hambey, Niece to her uncle Thomas (head) also likely grandparents marriage on IGI (extracted record) in Ashwater Devon, 1833 Charlotte Northcott - Richard Hamley (On Genuki - 1.7 miles from Charlottes' POB)
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?DEV,SX377926,5,Virginstow
Cas
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Brilliant Cas!
:D :D
Great work.
I have been all around the houses and not looked at that record - knew that the Launceston connection looked good though.
The marriage cert is def going to be a good investment & then it will be easy to find JONES ...
::) ;D :P
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Pleased for Ayashi, awww bless she's only 19yrs old, wish my lot were interested in FH....one generation back with the Jones at least....if it was not for your post would not have looked for Eliz. Hamley sooooo team work ;D
Cas :)
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I emailed an Uglow family tree and you are right! She was Elizabeth Jane HAMLEY born 1859 to Elizabeth HAMLEY with an unknown UGLOW as the father! The man who replied also has the date of marriage for Elizabeth and Theophilus and also her mother's second marriage! That beautiful man has just made my year!! And Cas, Charlotte could well be her grandmother! Argh! I love you all!!!
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Very pleased for you....great when a brick wall crashes ;D....hope you get lots and lots of lovely info from your contact...don't forget us, keep us posted ok
Best wishes
Cas :-*
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Heh heh heh, spoke too soon. Charlotte may not have been the grandmother. I think she probably was, but my source named a different wife for Richard Hamley (the sister of the four he 'would put real money on' to be the father of Richard's granddaughter) I would guess it wouldn't be her, since that would be incest. So he was probably married to her before Charlotte (there is an age gap too...) Annie Lititia... He doesn't think that she is Elizabeth J's daughter since she is accounted for in 1881 (Annie's Date of Birth), but Theophilus would have been 18 when she was born. More mystery!
Edit- there are two sets- the Hamleys and the Hamlys... We've got to sort out who was who!
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P.S, on the other thread, someone tantilisingly informed me that Theo and Elizabeth had another daughter and a visitor on the 1901 census, but didn't tell me who they were! I only have one photocopied page of the census and I can't get access to the census... Someone take pity on me? :-\ (Cute little sad face... heh heh heh)
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RG13; Piece: 2105; Folio: 116; Page: 5 & 6
Royal Marine Barracks East Stonehouse Devon
Theophilus Jones 37 sgt ? Llanfiangel Carms
Elizabeth Jane Jones 41 wife Devon Broadwoodwidger
Walter Jones 10 son, Devon Stonehouse
Esther Mary Jones 5 dau, Devon Stonehouse
next page 6
Ida Louise Jones 2, dau, Devon Stonehouse
Henrietta Street, Guest, single, dressmaker (worker at home) Devon Stonehouse
Cas
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Thank you ever so much! :D
Now I've just got to wait for this guy to come back and untangle the mess of Hamleys, rofl.
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Happy Ayashi....don't want to spoil your 'find'....I am sure this contact has well researched info :)
BUT don't treat it as gospel until you know it is proven via census, certs or extracted records etc, half the fun is checking things out for yourself, and KNOWING what you have found is right, and you can prove it ;)
Have a ball........good luck with the chase ;D
Cas
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As you have no access to the census...this is how the family looks to me. I think it more than very likely Charlotte is/was the mother of Eliz. Hamley snr, and that very possible Charlotte is a Northcott...although I stand to be corrected at any time ::) This is info from the census....IGI, freebmd, although all needs to be confirmed with BMD certs or Parish records.
Likely marriage on IGI (extracted record) 11 DEC 1833 Ashwater, Devon, Charlotte Northcott - Richard Hamley
1841 - HO107; Piece 232; Book: 11
Bicklake Civil Parish: Lifton
Reg district: Tavistock
All born in the county of Devon
Richard Hambley 35 farmer
Charlott Hambley 25
Richard Hambley 7
Elizabeth Hambley 5
John Hambley 3
William Northcott 15, MS (male serv)
Jane Phillips 15, FS (female serv)
Also next household up has Mary Northcott 15, FS. **Ages in 1841 census nearly always rounded down to the nearest 5, age 15 and over.
1851 - HO107; Piece: 1884; Folio: 265; Page: 2
Bicklake Farm Civil Parish: Lifton Devon
Registration district: Tavistock
Richard Hambley 36 56 ? farmer of 30 acre employing 1 lab Broadwood Devon
Charlott wife 37, Broadwood
Richard Hambley 16 farmers son employed on farm, Lipton
Elizabeth Hambley 14 farmers dau employed at home, Lipton
John Hambley 12, Lipton
Thomas Hambley 7, Lipton
Any one of the certs below will hopefully give you maiden name of Charlotte. A ref check for fathers' name on GRO will likely bring up the correct cert. Or at local office where birth was registered they will not charge if they cannot find correct one. (Devon)
Births Dec 1838 HAMLEY John Tavistock 9 451
Births Jun 1840 Hamley John Tavistock 9 446
Births Mar 1844 HAMLEY Thomas Tavistock 9 541
1861 - RG9; Piece: 1519; Folio: 37; Page: 2
Civil Parish: Broadwood Widger
Reg district: Launceston
Richard Hamly 64 head, mar, farmer of 90 acres, Broadwoodwidger
Charlotte Hamly 46 wife Devon Virginstow
Elizabeth Hamly 24 dau, Lifton
John Hamly 22 son, "
Thomas Hamly 17 son, "
Elizh Jane Uglow Hamly 2 dau, Broadwood Widger, Devon
Jabez Dingle 17, serv, carter, Devon ?
***Births Jun 1859 HAMLEY Elizabeth Jane Uglow Launceston 5c 25
1871 - RG10; Piece: 2223; Folio: 58; Page: 3
Milford, Civil Parish: Tremaine, Cornwall
Reg district: Launceston
Thomas Hambey 24 head, unmar, farmer of 98 acres Lifton, Devon
Charlotte Hambey 57 Mother, widow, Virginstow, Devon
Elizabeth Hambey 32 sister, unmar, dom serv, Lifton, Devon
Elizabeth Hambey 12 Niece scholar, Broadwood Widger, Devon
Mary Ann Robins 10 mths Niece Tremayne, Cornwall
John Hambley 5 Nephew, visiting, Devon Lifton
John Coombe 19 serv, unmar, farm lab indoors, Tremayne, Cornwall
***Cannot locate a marriage for Eliz Hamley snr to Mr Robins/Robbins - did they marry?
1881 - RG11; Piece: 2277; Folio: 27; Page: 47
Race Hill, Parish St Mary Magdalene, Cornwall
Reg district: Launceston
Elizabeth A. Robbins 42 head, mar, farmers wife, Devon, Lifton
Elizabeth J. Robbins 22 dau, gen serv domestic, Devon Lifton (AKA...Eliz. Jane Uglow Hamley)
Mary A. Robbins 11 dau, Launceston, Cornwall
Margaret Robbins 7 dau, Launceston Cornwall
John H. Robbins 3, son, Launceston Cornwall
1891 - RG12; Piece: 1804; Folio 24; Page 42
3 Kensey View, Town: Launceston Parish: St Mary Magdalene Cornwall
Elizabeth Robbins 52 head, mar, laundress, devon Lifton
John Robbins 12 scholar, Launceston Cornwall
Richard Edwards 25 son in law Bodmin Cornwall
Mary A Robbins Edwards 20 dau, Cornwall, Carmworthy ?
Harold Edwards 1 grandson Launceston
Charles Walker 7 boarder Launceston
1901 RG13; Piece: 2088; Folio: 13; Page: 3 - Devon
Charles Walker 16 born Launceston is with Eldest brother Richards' family (from 1841) down as waggoner on farm.
Could not find a birth for Charles Walker in reg district but came up with this...so both Walkers' were born/registered Launceston....the plot thickens ???
Births Jun 1884 Hamley Charles Launceston 5c 27
Cas
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:D
So there was a son called Richard as well? Well that makes more sense! It's perfectly possible for a woman to marry a man and her brother to go with his sister... It happened in another branch of the family. Margaret might have been Richard Jr's wife.
Yes, Elizabeth did marry William Robbins the year before, according to my source :)
I'm not taking it as gospel... although I'd like to. I'm more inclined to believe it if I can make sense of it! There were some inconsistancies between the two finds and your brilliant research might have patched up a few holes.
Another Walker? Oooooh :o
But where is William Robbins in 1881? Gone walkabouts, I see ::) He definitely fits into the family ;D
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Interesting family....
1n 1901 Eliz senior is still in same place household, although her husband is not with her on any census ???
1901 - RG13; Piece: 2183; Folio: 48; Page: 29
Kensey View, Launceston St Mary Magdalene Cornwall
Elizabeth Robbins 63 head, mar, Launderess (wash) Lifton
Margaret Robbins 25 s, gen lab (not domestic) Launceston
John H Robbins 22 s, son carter on farm, Launceston
Also in 1901 same area a possible Annie Walker ?
RG13; Piece: 2183; Folio: 27; Page: 45
Launceston St Mary Magdalene Cornwall
Household of Dennis family
Annie Hambley 18 gen serv domestic, North Petherwin, Devon (this is still same area very near Launceston)
Will see if I can find Mr Robbins...also check who Richard jnr married....
Cas
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"BUT the 1871 census has Elizabeth's surname wrong as she has married
William Robbins 3rd q 1870 in Launceston."
Ooh Cas! Annie Hambly? Don't you just wish that you could time travel and then you could go back and ask these people? ;D
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Marriages Jun 1860 (same page)
Hamley Richard Plymouth 5b 475
Uglow Margaret Ann Plymouth 5b 475
Same wife as in 1901 census - Margaret A
*******
Found the marriage for Eliz senior...
Marriages Sep 1870
Hamley Elizabeth Launceston 5c 37
Robbins William Launceston 5c 37
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Yes! time travel would be great.... ;D and a lot less expensive!
Only likely Will Robbins, same area, I can find at the mo is already married to a 'Louisa' ???
Any other points with the research you wanna try and sort with census, or your cup overfloweth at the mo? :o
Cas :)
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The children of Richard & Margret would share exact same group of grandparents as Eliz jane, also she would be niece to both parties.
Richard took over this farm from his father, must have been pre 1859 as Eliz Jane was born Broadwood, this is where he was born and the family lived in 1841 - 1851 census
Next up on census is Carly farm with William Uglow (wid) and family, as mentioned there are a few sons which could possibly have fathered Eliz Jane
1861 - RG9; Piece: 1464; Folio: 60; Page: 1
Bicklake Farm, Lifton, Devon
Reg district: Tavistock
Richard Hamley 26 head, m, farmer 40 acres, Bicklake Devon
Margrett Hamley 25
William T Hamley 7Mths Bicklake Devon
1871 - RG10; Piece: 2149; Folio: 65; Page: 3
Carly Farm, Parish: Lifton, Devon
Reg district: Tavistock
William Uglow 76 head, wid, farmer 105? acres employing 5 men Tintagel Devon
John Uglow 45 son, unmar, Cornwall Egloskerry
Margarit Hamley 34 dau, mar, Cornwall Egloskerry
William Hamley 10 son, Lifton, Devon
Mary Jane Hamley 7 dau, Lifton, Devon
Next page 4
Ernest Hamley 4 son, Cornwall Lezant
Edwin Hamley 2 son, Cornwall Lezant
Eli Broom 18 serv
John Green 14 serv
John Gysin 13 serv
Ann Bickle 19 serv
Not sure where Richard is ? Next farm down to this is Bicklake, as mentioned, but now unoccupied. Their son 'John' is visting with uncle Thomas in 1871
1881 - RG11; Piece: 2221; Folio: 33; Page: 2
Riscombe, Lifton Devon
Reg district: Tavistock
Richard Hamley 46 head, m, farmer, Lifton, Devon
Margraret Ann Hamley 45 Cornwall Egloskerry
William Thomas Hamley 20 son, Lifton, Devon
Margaret Hamley 16 dau, Lifton, Devon
John Hamley 15, son, Lifton, Devon
Richard Ernest Hamley 13, Cornwall Lezant
Edwin Uglow Hamley 11 Lifton, Devon
Louisa Hamley 8, Devon Broadwood
Elizabeth Kate Hamley 7 Lifton, Devon
1891 - RG12; Piece: 1752; Folio 69; Page 7
Downshears ? Farm, Town: Lee Mill, Parish: Lewtrenchard Devon,
Reg district: Tavistock
Richard Hamley 56 head, m, farmer Lifton, Devon
Margaret Hamley 55 wife, Cornwall Egloskerry
William Hamley 30 son, Lifton Devon
Edwin Hamley 21 son, Lifton, Devon
Louisa Hamley 18 dau, Broadwood, Devon
Elizabeth Kate Hamley dau, 16 Lifton Devon
1901 - RG13; Piece: 2088; Folio: 13; Page: 3
Blaseton Farm, Parish: Tamerton Foliott Devon
Reg district: Plympton St Mary
Richard Hamley 66 head, m, farmer & employer Lifton, Devon
Margaret A Hamley 67 wife, Cornwall Egloskerry
Edwin H Hamley 31, son, s, farmers son, Lifton, Devon
Elizabeth K Hill 27 dau, m, Lifton, Devon
Francis E Friend 7. grandson, Taverstock, Devon
Reginald G Hill 4 months, grandson, Tamerton, Devon
Charles Walker 16 serv, waggoner on farm (ag horse) Lauceston, Devon
There is also a 'Peter' on GenesReunited who has Richard b.1835 Lifton, Devon in his tree.
Cas
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I think my head is about to explode :o I'll have to go back and process that lot and see where my bewildered brain has ended up ;D
Yes, confirmation that Margaret Ann UGLOW married Richard HAMLEY jr. I have Margaret's siblings, parents and grandparents now and if her brother is the father, I've got his details too.
When I've scratched some money together, I'm going to go for Theo/Elizabeth's marriage certificate that should (pretty please!) give me both their fathers. Then I can pursue Theo's line. I might see if I can get onto GenesReunited or otherwise research the HAMLEY line (I think I'll google it like I did Trewartha!) and see if I can match up anything.
Thank you most sincerely! :D
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Cas, thank you ecstatically very much ;)
I'm now thinking of getting Theo's marriage certificate, along with Annie's birth certificate and Charles Hamley/Walker's birth certificate, just in case.
Until then, I'm now scouring everything I can find for evidence of more children- There was a gap of 6 years between two of the Jones children and I wondered if one or more children was born between 1890 and 1896 but either died or wasn't on the next census. I wonder... :D
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I think you will always wonder if you don't get those certs..........
You could try post on the Devon board...for marriage and baptisms, some have parish records for the area....many are put off by the surname 'Jones', but with Theo as dad you may get some info?
You could see if there is extended info for other members also?
Or there are the OPC (Online Parish Clerk) for Devon and Cornwall which are free...google for info.
Let me know....About Annie & Charles if you do get them...
Best wishes
Cas :)
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Do you know, I didn't even think of that? ::)
I've just got a letter from one of my relatives, so I think the Richards/Hillier side is looking up! ;D She sent me an email but it got lost in the ether somewhere. She's going to send it again...
By the way... What is the niece of my great-grandmother called? ??? I've just stuck with 'great aunt'. It's probably near enough...
Just looking on the Ancestry site (the free bits :P) and have several possibilities already. One of them has my exact name! That made me laugh. Will pursue :D
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Just checked, there are a few relationship charts - just type into google
Happy hunting....
Good luck with the Devon board
Cas :)
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Cas! I just got into Theo's census aged 7. His father has the same name as his son, and his sister has the same name as his daughter, as does his wife and mother! If it's not him, I'm a trained monkey!
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Hi Lovely people ..
It's me , Deb ...from the Devon boards LOL ;D
I have read through everything on this thread and then had to reread ::)
Can someone give me a quick run down as to who Theophilus Jones' father, grandfather, g grandad etc were ....
I am searching national archives and there are a few Theophilus Jones who seemed to be really high up in the Navy ...
off to reread again ... ;D
deb
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Hi deb ;D
Here is the link to what Ayashi posted on the forces board.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,277351.0.html
Know what a wiz you are at NA online, his service record must be there? I am usless in this area :-\
The possibles for parents are Walter & Elizabeth Jones in 1871 census, but marriage cert is needed to confirm. Grandparents etc.... at this date not known.
Cas
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Hi Cas ;D
here is the link to the Devon boards ... please have a look and see what you think...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,279491.0.html
I am having quite a hard time with all these Welsh names ...I have no idea where they are or how far they are from each other . I wonder if I should post what I find and then everyone 'in the know' will be able to tell me if I am on the right track ..
deb ;D
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Hi again deb..... 8)
Basically....I think Ayashi has just started out taking up research from a family member, anything you can find on NA in relation to her post on the forces board for Theo may help....his records.
Unknown his previous FH, until marriage cert can confirm who is father is/was. It seems he was born Llanfiangel c1863 Carmarthenshire, all career details can be found on link above.
I suggested she post on Devon board in that there may be parish info from peeps that could help solve some of the puzzles census, freebmd threw up...
Cas
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I've only just managed to convince my brother to give me his credit card details so I can have a free trial on the census site ;) but I've been making good progress. I've traced the possible father (Walter) back to 1841, where he appears to have a first marriage and a 24 year gap between his two children ::) I didn't want to go overboard researching him though, not until I can prove that he was the father (although the shared names seem a really good sign). I don't know anything about his own parents and, like Theophilus, he seems to pride himself in being a bit economical with the truth when it comes to his age. I did find a possible death for him though, in 1886 (the year before Theophilus' marriage).
Theophilus died a "Mess Steward" in the Royal Marines, buried with the rank of "Serjeant". My brother and I think that he retired as a sergeant but either couldn't cope in civilian life (he was a labourer before enlisting it seems, so he might not have been able to go back into that line of work) or wanted to do something for the war effort (he died in 1916).
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~Update~
In case anyone was interested... I'm back a generation or two on all branches now :) My great aunt supplied some more RICHARDS and a few photos as well, and I've been allocated the GILLs to research since no one else has done it, as well as ending up with JONES, HAMLEY, WOOD, URWIN, HINE and the elusive BRADYs (I think the fella has pulled a Hamley on me and was born under a different name...)
I've still got to confirm them all of course- I'm keeping a track of the unproved ancestors. But hey, it's progress ;D
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That's interesting as I come from Charlotte Northcott. I had stopped at the HAMBLEY. Charlotte was the daughter of Richard NORTHCOTT b Virginstow abt 1785 d abt dec 1865 AND Jane SLIMAN b 1792 in Broadwoodwidger d abt Mar 1879 in Broadwodwidger. There other children were Thomas 1819 Elizabeth 1824 William 1827( I guess he's the lad on the 1841 census.) Jane 1830 Richard 1833 George 1835 and Mary 1839. (I guess she in in the house next door on the 1841 census) The information was supplied by Broadwoodwidger OPL. I have not been able to find the marriage of Richard and Jane.
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Oh my god :o
I had Richard and Jane pencilled in as possible parents, but couldn't confirm it. Do you have any linking there, like baptisms? I'd be grateful for anything you have.
I got a transcript of Richard Hamley and Charlotte Northcott's marriage certificate just this morning. One of the witnesses was John Northcott. Any idea where he fits in?
Wow :D If we can prove this, you would be my first Rootschat rellie! :D
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I've a list of Batisims for Richard and Jane in Virginstow and Charlotte is the first in 13/8/1815. From the same source I got two Batisms for Richard Northcott
Milton Abbott
Richard Northcott
John
Sussanna
I later found the marriage in 3 mar 1783 her name is Headon.
They had the following children that I could find
Thomas c 18 Nov 1787
Richard c 26 apr 1789
James c 22 Aug 1790
Susanna c 29 July 1792
The second is in Virginstow
Richard NORCOTT
john
Joan
19/8-1790
The first looks most promising as the spelling is correct. Interestingly both fathers are John.
Does the marriage certificate give the brides fathers name and occupation?
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The marriage is 11th Dec 1833 (Ashwater), so before the certificates came in with extra information. The cert is Richard HAMLEY of Lifton marrying Charlotte NORTHCOTT of Ashwater, married after banns by Thomas MELHUISH (rector). Richard signed, Charlotte marked with a cross. The witnesses were Richard BEALY and John NORTHCOTT. That's it. I don't have the actual cert, just a transcript from the microfiche.
As you've probably gathered from the thread, I'm descended from their daughter Elizabeth's illegitimate daughter Elizabeth Jane. Can I ask where you come from?
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Thanks for the information. The referance to John Northcott is interesting and I will persue it.
I am from Charlotte's brother Richard. The oldest record I have is Richard1833 son birth which gives the parents as Richard and Jane. At that time he was a Dock Labourer in Stoke Damerel.
Charlotte's sister Elizabeth married a Joseph Perkin in 8 April 1841 in Lifton. I have not been able to tie any other of the Northcotts into marriages yet. Are you interested ? do you have any information?
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I'm afraid I have no Northcott information at all, Charlotte was the furthest back I've got. I am interested in anything you have, I love getting information :)
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AYASHI
I've been pondering how much information you want and what is the best way of getting it to you. This will be my third post so we can use the PM system. I assume you want the decendants of Richard Northcott 1785. I can print from the tree a descriptive report in PDF, RTF. HMTL or I can try and get you a GEDCOM file.
To all those who have written so much detail in the previous threads, a big thank you.
canjohn
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will PM :)