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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: annette ellen on Monday 07 January 08 10:15 GMT (UK)
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I am wondering if someone can help me try to find info on a Joseph Herbert Hirst , born 1867 Hudderfield, as written on his marriage certificate in Victoria, Australia.
Parents - Sam Hirst and Ann Hirst. I do not have any other info at this time.
Regards
Annette
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Hi Annette,
I can see one Joe Herbert Hirst but he's younger?
1871
RG10/4358 71 23
Almondbury, Yorkshire
480 Berry Brow
Sarah Ann Hirst, head, wid, 49?, Innkeeper
Samuel, son, mar, 29, Warehouseman
Ann, son's wife, mar, 31
Wm H?, grandson, 9
Joe Herbert, grandson, 12 mo
All born Berry Brow
:)
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In 1881, he's Joe H Hurtley - adopted ??? (and probably adapted too ;D)
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=24051011
RG11/4377 116 24
(birth Joe Herbert Hurtley Sep 1869 Huddersfield 9a 307)
Please shout if the link doesn't open for you :)
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Hi Tati,
Thanks for the answer. I have a copy of the marriage certificate now and it has that he married in 1887 age 21yrs so he would have been born in 1866 and it has as birthplace Huddersfield ,England, Father Samuel Hirst - Hotel Keeper and Mother Ann Hirst. :D
I did not have the certificate but went by info on our B,D,M records which do not give you much.
Do not know if this will make any difference. ;)
Thanks for your reply.
Regards
Annette ???
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Well, I definitely can't see another candidate! By 1891 Sam is the Publican of the Railway hotel Almondbury, which ties in quite nicely with the occupation mentioned on the cert. Do you have any other document corroborating his age? Maybe he just told a little white lie about his age when he got married? He wouldn't be the first one to say he's a major when he isn't! ;)
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1861 Cencus-Almondbury
RG9/3256/77/3
Joseph Hirst 43 head b Almondbury Innkeeper
Sarah Ann 39 wife b "
Ann Hurtley 22 dau Mar b "
Not sure if this helps or hinders :o :o
Jane
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Jane! ;D
Maybe this marriage would shed some light?
Ann Hirst - Samuel Hirst Dec 1864 Huddersfield 9a 484
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Hi Tati,
Thank you for the info about the marriage could be as it fits in with the dates.
We may have to get the death certificate and check whatinformation is written on that one.
Thanks for your imput, it is much appreciated.
Regards,
Annette :)
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Hi Sisterjane,
I do not think that it is the same family, but we never say never and I will do some more cheking and see what I come up with.
Many thanks for you imput, much appreciated.
Cheers
Annette ::)
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I think Sisterjane's family most definitely look like the ones ??? Sarah Ann anyway! :)
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Tati.. ;D cast yer eye over this and tell me what you think!!!!
Firstly..I think the Sam Hirst/Ann Hirst marriage you found in 1864 is correct but I dont think her name was Hirst although she did live with a Hirst family in 1851 (HO107/2294/545/5 with her father Joseph)and 1861(RG9/3255/12/18) and is Mary Ann Whitehead.
The reason I think this is because on the 1881 cencus Ann gives her birthplace as Kirkheaton and having back tracked the Hirsts she lived with are also in Almondbury.
Further to that...The only likely Sam Hirst I can find in 1861 is living in Hipperholme (RG9/3275/66/20 and he is living with a Whitehead family!!!!!
Of course it could be well off the mark!!!!!!
Jane
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So what's the whole scenario? ??? I can't get my head around it! :P
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And heres a good case for Joseph and Sarah Ann being Sams parents unless you have a birth cert or other details to the contrary....However he is not with his parents but very close by...see what you think..
1851-Almondbury
HO107/2294/269/41
Berry Brow
Joseph Hirst 33 head b Almondbury Beer House Keeper
Sarah Ann 29 wife b "
1851-Almondbury
HO107/2294/265/32
Berry Brow
Ben Batley 59 head b Almondbury Ret Proprietor of Horses
Hannah " 56 wife b "
Ann Hirst 12 Niece b "
Sam Hirst 9 Nephew b "
Joseph Hirst 82 Widow Father in Law b " Ret Cloth Weaver
1841-Almondbury
HO107/1273/3-32-21
Berry Brow
All b Yorkshire
Joseph Hirst 70 Clothier
Lydia " 66
Joseph Hirst Junior 20 Fancy weaver
Sarah " 19
Ann 2
Ben Batley 49 " "
Hannah " 45
Jane
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[So what's the whole scenario? I can't get my head around it!
/quote]
Thats just it Tati I cant work it out LOL!!!!!!!!
Im trying to work out who is the Mother/father of Joe Herbert
Obviously Sam is not his father.....but the Ann Hurtley on the 1861 is possibly Sams sister and it could be that Joe Herbert is her child and that Sam and Ann adopted him for some reason
Jane
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Yes, I agree that's the most likely story, Ann Hurtley being the Ann age 12 niece from 1851. Wish I could find the marriage or Ann's death though! :P
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Hi Tati...Ive searched till im bog-eyed for the marriage but cant see anything....could be a mistranscription of Hartley but have you seen how many Hartleys there are and thats only in Yorkshire LOL!!!!!!!
However I cant see it being mistranscribed as its Hurtley in 61 and 81.....I will have another look while Joe is cooking tea!!..Stir Fry.......bit like my brain LOL!!!!!!
Jane
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Hello Tati and Jane,
I am just as confused as you both are. I have got the death certificate and it has on it that Joseph died in 1919 aged 52 yrs, in another column it asks for name of Father and maiden name of Mother-- Sam Hirst, Hotel Keeper, Ann Hirst formerly Hirst.
Another column asks for where born and how long in the Australian States, stating which. England, - 36 - years in Victoria..
Next column asks If deceased was married, when and at what age and to whom. Port Melbourne -20 years.
He must of came out here at a young age , and I wonder with whom?
You have both been a great help to me although we are still wondering and hopefully it can all be sorted out. Much appreciated,
Regards
Annette.
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I don't doubt at all that he's the boy we found on census as Joe Hurtley and Joe Hirst - there doesn't seem to be any other candidate!
Now it would be interesting to get hold of the Joe Herbert Hurtley birth cert to find out whose son he really was.
The fact he mentioned Sam & Ann as his parents doesn't prove they really were. If he was raised by them he'd obviously consider them as his parents and he wouldn't have had to produce any evidence.
:)
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Hello Tati,
Thanks for the update. Sorry for not answering sooner but I have 2 of my grandchildren for a holiday at the moment.
It would be good to get a copy of the birth record to find out for sure. I assume it would be quite costly as it is here in Australia.
Thanks again for the info and help.
Regards,
Annette. :)
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It's the same price wherever you are in the world as far as I'm aware :)
£7 from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
:)
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Hi Tati,
Thanks for the info and will see about it.
Sorry for the late response, but have had a bad back .
Regards
Annette
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I too am interested in Joseph Herbert HIRST, my maternal grandfather. If you are still searching him Annette could you contact me please.
Many thanks
Don
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Hi there,
I am still interested in the family.
Regards
Annette
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Hi Annette
Thanks for your prompt response. I continue to run into the proverbial brick wall in trying to trace Joseph's background. I have started to write down what I do know and this is attached. Grateful if you can add anything or expand it. I have one photo of him plus the obituaries, certificates etc. if you are interested.
Regards
Don Gallahar
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Hi Don,
I will send you a personal message.
Regards
Annette.
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I just a\bought some old papers one of which was for the rent by Joseph Hirst of property in Berry Brow from the Huddersfield Banking Company, dated April 1883. If its of interest please do let me know.
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Hi Andy. Greetings from downunder.
Many thanks for taking an interest. I have two Joseph Hirsts in my family at that time. My G.Grandfather was a weaver who lived in Berry Brow and took over the Railway Hotel. My G.G.Grandfather was a clothier also in Berry Brow.
I'd be very grateful (if you have the facilities) to get a copy.
My E-mail address is (*)
Best wishes
Don Gallahar
Canberra
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Andy Williams, Thanks for that info and it would be great to it a copy of that information. I will send you a PM. regards Annette ellena