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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: kate57 on Tuesday 08 January 08 01:31 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know where a Roman Catholic is likely to be buried if place of death was Blythswood View Clydebank in Jan 1909?. The family was Irish. I can't find Blythswood View,it is probably long gone. The family never strayed far from Glasgow Rd as my grandfather worked in the shipyards. Or maybe someone may know which RC parish or chapel a family in that area would be a member of?
Thank you for any light on the subject
Catherine
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There were three Catholic churches in the Clydebank area in 1909. St Mary's Duntocher was opened in 1841, Our Holy Redeemetr's in 1888 and St Stepehn's Dalmuir in 1907. If they worked in the Shipyard and lived around Glasgow Road it would more likely be OHR as it is on Glasgow Road. There is no Catholic cemetary around the Clydebank area, and Catholics were buried along side other denominations. The priest normally consecrated the ground before the body was place in the grave. You could try telephoning Clydebank council cemetaries on 0141 567 2310, they should be able to help. OHR's telephone number is 0141 952 9508 and their e-mail is parishpriest@msn.com. All the Catholic parish records are held in the National Archives in Edinburgh and they will photocopy and post out if you can not go in person.
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thank you for so much info. It is exactly what I needed. I appreciate your help.
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Does anyone know where a Roman Catholic is likely to be buried if place of death was Blythswood View Clydebank in Jan 1909?. The family was Irish. I can't find Blythswood View,it is probably long gone. The family never strayed far from Glasgow Rd as my grandfather worked in the shipyards. Or maybe someone may know which RC parish or chapel a family in that area would be a member of?
Thank you for any light on the subject
Catherine
Interesting, which name are you researching because I also came across the exact same address and couldn't locate it (hence finding your post here)? I'm looking at Sweeney and Gray that both also came over from Ireland. Not that I can find out where, they never said on any of the documents I've found so far.
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And yet another Blythswood View!! My Grandmother was born there in 1907. Her parents came from Rathmelton Donegal sometime after 1900.
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I don't know where Blythswood View was but I am guessing it was very near Glasgow Rd. My grandfather Daniel Logan worked in the shipyards and lived at 6 Napier St in 1902, John Knox St 30, 32 and 35 between 1903 and 1907
At 23 Blythswood in 1909 when his wife Ellen Greer died in 1909. There is also a connction to a Doran family at 11 Blythswood View in 1915. Looking at Mapquest all the addresses are within a very small area. Only Blythswood is missing but Clydebank has had so many redevelopments, clearing of sub standard housing and the blitz of course it is not surprising it is gone.
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And yet another Blythswood View!! My Grandmother was born there in 1907. Her parents came from Rathmelton Donegal sometime after 1900.
What was her surname?
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I don't know where Blythswood View was but I am guessing it was very near Glasgow Rd. My grandfather Daniel Logan worked in the shipyards and lived at 6 Napier St in 1902, John Knox St 30, 32 and 35 between 1903 and 1907
At 23 Blythswood in 1909 when his wife Ellen Greer died in 1909. There is also a connction to a Doran family at 11 Blythswood View in 1915. Looking at Mapquest all the addresses are within a very small area. Only Blythswood is missing but Clydebank has had so many redevelopments, clearing of sub standard housing and the blitz of course it is not surprising it is gone.
Interesting, my lot (Sweeney - her maiden name Ward, both from Ireland, and 5 kids all from Ireland too, just can't find out where!) all lived at number 23 as well, they are on the 1901 Census. I agree it was probably near Glasgow Road. It must have been a big place, presumably with lots of flats or something because there are a lot of families shown at the same address. Most of my lot were working in the shipyards. One of them (my Mum's Granddad) then married another Irish girl, a Grey (after he moved up the road to William Street and she was living on the same road working in Duntocher Mill) and he worked on the Queen Mary ship but his brother was killed in an accident in the shipyard when a rowing boat got turned over (I have an article from the Scotsman which describes it all). Anyway, I digress! It's such an interesting hobby this. I just wish I'd started before my own Granddad died.
My Mum was born in Clydebank in 1938 and remembers the blitz very well indeed, despite being so young (she lived across from the Singer factory which was heavily bombed). She's 70 next week ! She now lives further North in Scotland and I'll be going through Glasgow to get there. I would like to go and look around the area but don't think we'll have enough time.
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And yet another Blythswood View!! My Grandmother was born there in 1907. Her parents came from Rathmelton Donegal sometime after 1900.
What was her surname?
Her name was Dunn. Her mothers maiden name was Peoples
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Her name was Dunn. Her mothers maiden name was Peoples
Ah right, no connection there then (apart from the address of course) !
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Her name was Dunn. Her mothers maiden name was Peoples
Ah right, no connection there then (apart from the address of course) !
I don't think there's any connection either apart from the address, which is why I posted originally... At the moment, you don't know where your Sweeneys and Wards hailed from, but often our Irish went where they knew other people from home (as well as the availability of work).... so mine were from Rathmelton area .. soooooo!!! I'll check later tonight the percentage of Irish adults in this street in 1901, also the names and see if there is any basis for this theory (in this case).
p.s.
There are Sweeneys and Wards in Rathmelton in Griffiths Valuation around 1857 do you have death certs with parents names in Scotland.
I'll check the particulars and get back later.
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There are Sweeneys and Wards in Rathmelton in Griffiths Valuation around 1857 do you have death certs with parents names in Scotland.
I'll check the particulars and get back later.
That's very interesting, thanks. I have Hugh Sweeney and Margaret Gray who were living there, both from Ireland.
Hugh's parents were John Sweeney (parents Hugh Sweeney and Mary McGinnis) and Winifred Ward (parents Patrick Ward and Margaret Docherty).
Margaret's parents were Patrick Gray and Margaret McKinnon.
All this info has come from certificates from Scotlands People. I'm assuming (!!) that because I can't see John and Winifred (who had 6 children all born in Ireland between 1868 and 1887) weren't on the 1891 census that they came from Ireland sometime between then and 1901 when they were there but I have no idea how they came or why or where from.
Jeremy
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Got bogged down with the 163 Irish born residents in this street. Many, many have Donegal names , and a good proportion of Rathmelton names (in G.V.) BUT that doesn't mean to say they couldn't be present elswhere. Not proof.
I found the following on Lindels Donegal site.
It's curious that's all, and right time frame for John
1867 Sweeney, John 27 Bachelor Labourer Dromore,
-Conwal (father)Sweeney, Hugh Labourer- Ward, Mary Full Spinster (father) Patrick Ward.
I think I'll have to go back and copy that entry again, it has not come out as I wished. But my thoughts were, perhaps Winifred was a second marriage?? Maybe Marys sister???
If you are searching G.V. remember mcGinnis has alternative spellings e.g. Mc Guiness etc .
I'll have to do some stuff for work tomorrow but I'll have another look later.
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Link to Lindels page with marriage record
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/lettcivregmarr.htm
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Link to Lindels page with marriage record
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/lettcivregmarr.htm
Thanks for that, what an excellent site that is. I've e-mailed as suggested on the page you pointed me to to ask to see the scan, since it is also possible that the 'Mary' bit was hard to read and could have been something else?
Thanks for your help,
Jeremy
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For the benefit of anyone else searching, I sent and e-mail to the National Library of Scotland (their e-mail is maps@nls.uk) and had the following response, which they have confirmed they are happy for me to post here:
I regret that I have failed to find Blythswood View. There is no mention of it on either the Ordnance Survey (O.S) 25” to a mile scale map of 1896 ( Dunbartonshire sheet XXV.2) or on 1914 (Dunbartonshire XXIII.10; XXIII;14; XXIII.11 and XXII.15), which is the biggest scale of Clydebank map we have for this period. I looked at 49 maps of both Clydebank and Glasgow from around 1900 to 1962, including the 1958 and 1962 Clydebank town plans with a street index. The O.S. 50” (1:1250) to a mile scale sheets for 1948 also proved fruitless.
You may have already tried both the Mitchell Library in Glasgow http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/Libraries/Collections/ArchivesandSpecialCollections/
and the Clydebank Story site http://www.theclydebankstory.com/contact.php
Thanks to searching for your enquiry ,I now know that Clydebank is not part of Glasgow, but is in West Dunbartonshire. Local history enquiries can be sent to
Clydebank.local.history@west-dunbarton.gov.uk
So you can see they kindly did a lot more than I expected and really tried to find it for me but to no avail as yet. I have sent an e-mail to the address suggested so I'll wait to see if they can help.
Many thanks then to the National Library of Scotland, where at their web site http://www.nls.uk/maps, they do have maps from all over the world!
Jeremy
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I've now had some help from Clydebank Local History library, and they have compared some maps they have and confirmed that it was on what is now called Clyde Street between South Bank Street and South Elgin Street.
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west dumbartonshire council on 01389737000 and ask for the bmd department for records in clydebank they should be able to help
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Following this with interest, as I think I previously said my grandmother was born 9 Blythswood View. (1907). Now I always knew her mother died at 51 Clyde st,(in 1924) but just thought they had moved.
So trotted off to Gt Grandpas WW1 records. and he enlisted 5 Blythswood view Sept.1914 and was demobilised 51 Clyde St. January 1919.
Sooo-- if this was the same house, or street, name change occured during wartime.
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Hello Tootsiepie - helping my friend search for her Irish Great grandparents Murray and came across your entry.
We are trying to find out where they disappeared to as my friends grandmother Julia Murray
was brought up by her Aunt and Uncle from age 3 to 17 till her marriage.
Julia Murray is on the 1901 census age 3 born Ireland niece to Robert Bowie and Jeanie in Old Kilpatrick.
1911 census age 14 with aunt and uncle and your grandmother Mary Ann Dunn age 3 in Johnstone
I then searched for Mary Anns' birth to see what the connection was and could then tie up
Jeanie and Susan Peoples/Peebles as sisters. Mary Anns' birth cert confirmed the area in Ireland
was Rathmelton.
Julia Murray married age 17 in Johnstone to James Muir and her parents are listed as John Murray and Kathleen Peebles (doesn't mention deceased)
Found on the 1901 census Mary Ann's mum visiting her mum in Castle St, Rathmelton. her mum Sara states married but Abb?Ebb? her husband not there though there is a son John
On 1911 Irish Census Sarah is now widowed living were her unmarried son John. It states she had
5 living children.
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Hi again Tootsiepie - clicked before I could ask if you have any info re Julias parents (have searched Irish census incase they stayed there) and Scotlandspeople for deaths, nothing. Also do you know any more information on Ebb James Peoples and Sarah Paton.
Thanks again
Liz
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Hi Liz, This is weird , I was looking at your Verner query last night ;D . Looking at maps of Drybridge,Dundonald etc. nearness of Ferry route to Larne and the fact that there are loads of Irish Verners on G.V.
Anyway, back to Peoples/Peebles etc.. I've got a few bits and pieces, and will look them out, but in the meantime, here's what I can find quickly.
So far I can see that an Annie Murray was witness to Susan Peoples and Henry(Hugh)Dunns marriage in Rathmelton on 21.07.1900.
Henry was in Army and as their first child Henry Hugh was born 19.08.1901, I don't think Susan had actually left Ireland by the time of the 1901census.
Kathleen was Catherine b. 1866 I presume? Jane or Jeanie I think was baptised as Joanna 24.01.1875, and she was married 09.01.1900 Rathmelton. Witnesses - John Murray and Cassie Murray. (Peoples?)
Abby and Sarah were married 05.12.1862 -Abby James' father was John Peoples,Labourer. Abby was full age when
married, i.e. over 21.and he was a blacksmith to trade. Sarahs' father
was Michael Patton, Butcher. She was aged 20.
Witnesses were David Jacob, and Samuel Morrison.
I have a possible birth for Ebby , but will send you the original communication I had with the OLD donfam genealogy site. (when I locate it ;) ) I received the info quite a few yrs ago and the site is now defunct. It is only a transcription, not originals.
Now that so many new resources are online, I may try and find Ebbys death again.. I don't know where he was on 1901 census, but suspect deid!!! Sarah maybe still considered herself as married as opposed to being a spinster, or even didn't understand form properly. I really don't know though.
Do you think Cassie Murray (witness at Janes wedding) was Kathleen Peoples? if so , she was still in Ireland 1900.
I'm off to do a bit of digging ::)
edit---sorry, I just realised it wasn't your Verner query.
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I see a Catherine Murray of the right age group in Old Kilpatrick in 1901 census. John is another name in household.
Just downloaded this entry, and they are born Scotland, so backt to drawing board)
I also meant to say that Abby and Sarah were married in Ist Presbyterian Church Ramelton, so had turned Catholic by 1875.(when Joanna was baptised)
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Hi again, The 5th child of Sarah was Thomas b. 1870 Rathmelton, and just found his Marriage cert to a Jane Kidd in 1896. (Ebi/ Aby) James Peebles , blacksmith,was deceased. So this gives us a timeline to look for his death. between birth of Joanna 1875 and 1896, under one of his many name combinations.
edited
John Murray and Catherine Peoples were married in Augnish RC in 1885 (Brs genealogy search). Have not downloaded it for further details yet.
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Hi Tootsiepie - thanks for all that wonderful information (my apologies for not having any info to exchange) You will have to give me lessons on Irish searching, can't believe the info you have passed.
After my last posting I discovered on SP Julia Murray had a sister Susan c 1900 also brought up by Robert and Jeanie Bowie. She married Peter V Graham in 1918 and witnessed by a Janet Peebles!
Then searched for Mary Anns marriage on SP, which I am sure you will have, to find that she married
Owen Donnelly in 1926 and had resided with the Bowies also. So it seems at some point the Bowies brought up Julia, Susan and Mary Ann. How interesting.
My friend thinks she was told somewhere that Julia and Susans mother Kathleen/Catherine may have died in childbirth along with the child.
Thanks again for your time. I would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction to where to find the information you posted. I have obviously no clue on how to search for the Irish side of things. Scotlandspeople and Family search are my limits - will have to go to genealogy school me thinks!
Liz
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Hi again, I am one of Mary Ann Dunn and Owens Donnellys many grandchildren. I don't remember him, as he died when I was young, but I do remember Mary ;D. She didn't die until 1991.
I knew I recognised the name Peter Graham and see he was a witness on Mary Anns marriage cert.
Re-the Bowies bringing up Mary . I'm not sure abt that. I know she was with them in the census, but wonder if it was because her mother Susan was expecting another brother for Mary, i.e. Abby J Peebles Dunn b. 17.10.1911.
I know Susan died in 1924, Clydebank, but I was led to believe by my own mother that Mary only went to Johnstone permanently after Susan died, because Henry Dunn often worked away. However, that could well be wrong, as I've found many family stories have been distorted over time. (my mum did not believe me when I told her she was descended from a Presbyterian, and of course I had to keep bringing it up didn't I ;D )
Re- records.... where do I start. I got bits and pieces from a lot of places. 'OLD' Donfam, Irish record office, LDS, War records of Hugh Dunn gave his wifes name , d.o.b. of children and where born, and so it goes on. I will send you by P.M. the probable baptism entry for Abby. http://donegal.rootsireland.ie/ has a lot of records online, inc. Abbeys marriage, but watch the spelling. (Abbey Peoples)) I was beginning to think it wasn't on there last night.
I have got to go just now but will get some stuff to you later, or tomorrow morning.
P.S. this search isn't for Maureen Murray is it?
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Hi Tootsiepie, Misled you re Mary Ann living with her Aunt and Uncle. I didn't mean since she was three. My friend was also told when Mary Ann mother died she went to Johnstone. Sorry, dont know Maureen Murray but you two must be related to my friend.
Thanks again will pm you with my e-mail.
Liz
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E-mail sent :)
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Just recently come across this post. I was born and brought up in East Clyde St, formerly 11, Blythswood View. It was just along from Our Holy Redeemer's school [O.H.R.], and just around the corner from O.H.R. chapel, Glasgow Rd. The street was always known locally as 'The View'. I always assumed this was because of the view we had of the docks and the green fields on the other side of the river Clyde. It wasn't until relatively recently that I found out that the street was renamed, and that the 'The View' referred to the old street name. I believe, also, that the area across the river was known as Blythswood, hence the name. We lived there until 1962, and the street was demolished shortly after [1962 or 63].
Incidentally, can anyone tell me how I can access the 1911 census records of 11, Blythswood View? I have tried to do so on the 'Scotland's People' website
but it does not give access to street searches, only to name searches.
My great grandfather lived there up until his death in 1920, [ he moved there sometime after the 1911 census from 33, John Knox St] and our family lived there up until 1962 as earlier stated.
I am curious to find out if there was just a change of name for the street, or was the original street demolished and rebuilt as East Clyde St, and I hope that if I can access the records for No 11 Blythswood, I would be able to determine if it was the same building from the information provided.
Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi, If you search for - Hugh Dunn 1911 census, aged 35. Dunbarton (Old or West Kilpatrick). This takes you to mainly 9 Blythswood View, but the last entry on the page is no 11. Therefore if you click the ''next image or page after'' button you should get a few more entries for 11 Blythswood view. (though it will cost you 5 credits for every page viewed.)
John and Winifred McBride, with a Patrick Brogan were the entries for no 11 on my page.
The name change occured during WW1, and East Clyde view was demolished 1962 ish , so houses would have been up only 50 odd yrs (if they were new houses)... I'm tending to think they were the same old houses, maybe renumbered, if additional housing was built nearby. Maybe Dunbartonshire fell out with Glasgow , hence the name change ;D
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Thanks, I'll try that. Appreciate your help.
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Can confirm it was the same houses. I know this from the number of homes at number11, and also the number of single room homes [single ends ], and the sequence they come in. Thanks again.
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Hi Kate, my great grandparents William & Emily Murray lived at 6 Napier Street during the 1891 Census. I wonder if it was a tenement building?
Helen
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Hi there,
Sorry to bring up an old thread. I am the great great grandson of Abby/Ebbi Peoples and Sarah Patton of Ramelton. Their first son Samuel(born in Scotland) is my great grandfather.
I have found records of him called Edward, James, Abraham, Ebby, Abby, Ebi etc. Quite the mystery. It appears he moved to the USA pre 1875, I cannot say for sure though. His location is listed as such on the birth record of Jane(Joanna) Peoples, born in this year.
Anyone have any info on this, would be good to hear it. Especially the birth record for Abby. I cannot find any death record either.
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Hi Kate 57, there are two Cemeteries in and around Clydebank. Kilbowie in Montrose street, opened in 1897. Dalnottar opened in 1911.There is also one Dumbarton. The cemeteries held graves for Catholics in the consecrated sections. There is also a New Dalnottar cemetery and crematorium opened in the late 60s/70s.
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Here is a link to the old maps of Clydebank which should give you an idea where Blythswood view was, as you can see the Blythswood light is on the other side of the Clyde opposite Clyde st.
Hope its of interest.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/75661881
joe