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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Abiam2 on Friday 11 January 08 19:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Can anyone look up Arthur Wise born 1883 in Berkshire for me please.
He was killed in action on 24 April 1917 and buried in the Karasouli Military Cemetery, Greece. I know nothing about him except that he was killed.
Thank you, Abiam
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Hi Abiam,
Have you found his details on www.cwgc.org?
Nanny Jan
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Hi Abiam !
Here he is on CWGC !
WISE
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Royal Berkshire Regiment
Unit Text: 7th Bn.
Date of Death: 24/04/1917
Service No: 15971
Additional information: Brother of Mrs. R. Hibbert, of 3, York Cottages, Binfield, Bracknell, Berks.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: A. 152.
Cemetery: KARASOULI MILITARY CEMETERY
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Oh sorry Nanny Jan !! ........ great minds and all that !! :)
Here's his medal card you can download for 3 pounds 50 ..... no family information on there though !
Medal card of Wise, Arthur
Royal Berkshire Regiment
15971
Private
Date
1914-1920
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02j3/
Have you found him in 1901 ?
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Hi both,
No I haven't looked for anything yet I'm afraid I had forgotten all about him, that sounds awful. His name has just cropped up again,
Thank you both,
Abiam
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Soldiers Died in the Great War (An index contemporary to the time) shows him as:-
Private Arthur Wise
Princess Charlotte of Wales (Royal Berkshire Regiment)
7th Btn
15971
Born - Binfield Berks
Enlisted - Wokingham, Berks
Residence - Binfield, Berks
Theatre of War - Salonika
'Killed in Action'
Other common stated causes of death were - 'died of wounds'- indicating they made it to a hospital or 'died at home' - ie back in the UK - or -'died' - often being due to an illness or medical condition. You may also find an obituary in the local Binfield newspaper of the day.
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Thank you very much Cheshiremog,
I am grateful for the information as I am trying to put together all the men in my family who served in the forces. As I work through there are more than I first thought!
Thanks again everyone,
Abiam
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Abiam
Just ask
We are here to help :)
Mog
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Arthur Wise was born at Binfield and enlisted in the 7th Royal Berks 16/12/1914 at Wokingham.
They were initially at Brock Barracks at Reading then Codford, then Sutton Veney - back to Reading Nov 1914 and then to Fovant in May 1915. Next to Sandhill Camp near Warminster 21st July 1915 to join 26th Division then to France 15th Sept 1915
They had only a short stay in France sailing from Marseilles 11th November 1915 via Alexandria to Salonika.
On 24th April 1917 they attacked the Austrians et al near Lake Doiran losing 41 dead and just over 200 wounded.
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Goodness John
How did you manage to find that out ?
Mog
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Ancient Chinese Secret Mog !! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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And curiosity is still killing this cat! 8)
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You can see the War Diary at www.thewardrobe.org.uk As for what went previous to France I have all the regimental histories and am writing more up to date ones myself as I am a Trustee of the Regimental Museum and have access to a lot of data.
John
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Well John ...... I appreciate it .... thanks !! :)
Annie :)
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Thanks for that John
Very interesting as my grandfather served in the 12th Labour Corps- Royal Berkshires
I see they have the 10th Labour on the site but not the 12th ?
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To Cheshire Mog
Only the 10th's War Diary survived - the 12th went to France 19th August 1916 and went to Zenegham near Calais to build an ammunition dump. They became 162 and 163 Coys Labour Corps 9th May 1917.
As a general rule Labour Battalions came under the local town Major and it is his war diary you have to find. I have not as yet gone searching. Can you tell me your grandfather's name and I will look him up
regards
John
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Dear John
Thank you for your kind offer. Yes that is the exact date he went to France on 19th August 1916 ! :D - I managed to get his burnt record and it is on there.
My grandad always said that he was injured and thrown to the side of the road for dead - with a pile of horses - someone marching past saw him move and realised he was alive. He did survive but had to wear a back brace for the rest of his life.
His name was Samuel Edward Vittery Clift. Service No 281939 Pte - He was born in Brixham, Devon on 15th Feb 1873. He attested at Paignton, Devon on 11th Dec 1915 and gave hs age as 39 years 9 months - but he was in fact 42 years and 9 months. Did he need to lie to get in - or was there some kind of mistake ? He was a hansom cab driver and we have always wondered whether his horses were recquisitioned for the war effort - leaving him with no job and no option but to join up.
I have always wondered why he ended up in the Berkshires as he was from Devon- I think later in the war you were just allocated to a regiment - or were the Berkshire actively recruiting in Devon for some reason?
Dates I have are:-
Attested Paignton 11.12.15
To Army Reserve 11.12.15
Mobilised 23.6.16
R Berks 12th Home 23.6.16 to 18.8.16
Exped Force France 19.8.16 to 20.3.17
Home 21.3.17 to, 20.11.07
Service 1 year 156 days
Other Notes:-
Depot Posted 21.3.17
Depot 3 Posted 26.5.17
Lab Corps 629 H.S.S.G.T. ? Transferred 30.6.17
Med Board 28.10.17
Discharged no longer physically fit for war service
Docs to Chelsea 30.10.17
I have always wondered if he was sent back from France early due to the injury - or if the regiment came back together
Any further details you could give would be wonderful
Mog
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Mog
I can fill in a few gaps and ask some more questions
He attested at Paignton under the terms of the Derby Act whereby all men who were not married and aged between 18 and 41 had to register at their Town Hall. Men had four options - enlist immediately, Go onto the B Reserve; promise to enlist and promise to go on the B Reserve. He evidently took option 2 and joined the B Reserve.
Call up started in March 1916 and men were required to report to their local barracks - in his case it would have been one of the Devonshire Regiment. The Army was organised in the UK by Command - Southern Command included Warwick, Worcester, Bucks, Berks, Hants and all counties to the west. Each regiment formed a new battalion in sequence and men from all over the command would go to the regiment forming at the time. From the 19th to 27th June this was the 12th Royal Berks. When he got to Reading he would have been allotted a regimental number - probably in the range 27437 to 27520 as this was a batch whose names were not recorded at HQ. After being kitted out they were sent to Portsmouth to await deployment and get in some pretty rudimentary training as the Labour Battalions were not expected to fight unless severely provoked. About all they were given was basic instruction about a rifle and how to march.
They departed for France19th August 1916 on the Monas Queen and, as I said before, worked on building an ammunition depot at Zenegham.
On 6th January 1917 something happened which caused the deaths of eight men and they came from all over Southern Command (Parkstone, Wallingford, Malvern, Islington, North Aston, Malmesbury, Bristol and Woking - but the two from Woking and Islington had come from the 14th Devons. My suspicion is that some ammunition exploded as there is no sign of an air raid or anything in the Calais area at the time.
I would assume that your grandfather was caught up the explosion and was injured in the blast together with the horses he was working with. He would have spent some time in a local field hospital and then shipped back to England in March as being fit only for home duties as you give him reporting to the depot the 21st.
He seems then to have joined the 629th Coy Labour Corps on the 30th June - this was a unit working in England - mostly made up of men from the Royal Berks and eventually discharged 30th October. He does not appear on the War medal Roll and would not have qualified for a Star but should have had a Victory Medal - do you know what medals he had?
If you do have his Royal Berks number we would love to know - also where and when he died.
regards
John
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Thought you may like this !! :)
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Dear John & Lizzie,
I am absolutely speechless - I can't tell you what this means to me. I can now see in my head what he did and where he went and why. It is not just writing on a form anymore. I was so lucky to get his burnt record from Kew as so few survived and it was a revelation in itself. Several extra dependent children were listed on his record which we knew nothing about.
I never knew my grandfather - there was a huge age gap. He was born in 1873 and I was born in 1957 - an age gap of 84 years. My mother spoke about him endlessly and it was the stories I heard about him that really first started me in genealogy.
I have never seen a photograph of him in uniform - maybe he never had one done - no one in the family seems to have one. And I do not know what medals he had - I don't think I found his medal card - I must re-visit that!
Lizzie - thank you so much for the postcard of the ship - I collect postcards too - but that is going to be a very special one - looks like a paddle steamer to me - perhaps used for coastal excursions previously ? Or was it bigger than that ? France wasn't far away after all - I heard they could hear the guns on the frontline in France - in Dover on a clear day.
From what John says - I have looked at the record again and there is a number crossed out on the top - 27848 ? Could this be his Berkshire's Number ? There is another number S.H. 12498 I wonder what this means ?
I will post photos of the records so you can see.
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Here's a bit of padding !! :D
http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/mf1923/p31.htm
Annie :)
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Again to John
I am surprised that he enlisted under the Derby scheme - although you must be right - but he was actually aged 42 years and 9 months - in Dec 1915 - but obviously lied.
He died in 1951 in Paignton, Devon so was not a casualty of the war - but received some kind of small pension due to his injury.
There are other abbreviations on his record - HSSGT ?
You are very welcome to a copy of his service record if the Royal Berks are interested - or any other information.
Also please let me know how I make a donation to the museum.
I also found a publication online by Lyell - speech by Sir John Purser Griffiths - about Zeneghem & Audruicq. I think they went to help re-build the ammunition depots which were bombed by hostile aircraft in July 1916. But this time they built them to a new plan - spacing the ammo sheds further apart and adding overhead sandbag cover- fascinating. I was in the RAF and worked in a missile dump. The buildings had super thick walls but thinner ceilings so that if a missile went off the blast went up. Not so clever when you are being bombed from above.
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Here is the HSSGT annotation ?
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Other attachments
Didn't work first time ?
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Dear Annie (sorry I meant Annie above not Lizzie!!)
Very interesting - more padding or more paddling ?
I will look out for the Mona's Queen at my next postcard fair !
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Yes Mog
I eventually found his Royal Berks number - it was 27848 - the reason I couldnt find it at first was that the National Archives have him as Cliff rather than Clift
The HSSSG is actually HSS 69 which I thinks stands for Home Service Supply - they were based at Portsmouth
I think the SS Mona's Queen was one of the steamers which plied between England (probably Liverpool) and the Isle of Man - Almost all the ferries had been requisitioned for service between England and France. - I look forward to what Annie will find - the picture was great.
regards
John
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Thanks John
I have really looked at these records now with new eyes and a different level of understanding
I really appreciate it
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Isn't it amazing how we feel when we start reading and inwardly digesting - this information that we've known about for years but really didn't take much notice of ?? :-\
I know how emotional I felt about my Granddad .... but my problem is now ..... that I get emotional over all my soldiers ( doing Honour Rolls does that to you !! ::) )
Well enjoy your new found history Mog !
If you scroll all the way down .......... stop when you come to # 9 !! :D
http://www.kneen.com/Manx%20life%20line.htm
Annie :)
PS Check reply #20 John !! :)
Sorry Abiam ...... to have really hijacked this thread !! :-\
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Dear Annie
Yes I have checked out the link. Just amazing. And the information - yes - I see it with new eyes -thanks to John - Emotional ? - Yes same here! Many of the WW1 casualties were just children. I shed a few tears when I saw Mona's Queen - wishing my Mum could have seen it too. Thank you RC - its grrreat!
And you are right - we must get back to Abiam.
Before I close - a postcard of a lovely paddle steamer approaching Infracombe, Devon in 1928, when there was a brief interlude to war. May the interludes grow longer and join together in a whole.
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Hello everyone,
All these replies have just been pointed out to me by Maddie! And I apologise for for not replying earlier. I got immersed in Australia and somehow didn't get notification that this was still on going!
Liverpool Annie and cheshire mog hijacking doesn't come in to it as other peoples finds help us all to learn and to keep looking!
Thanks to you all for your help. Now going ro read and digest,
Regards,
Abiam
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Dear Abiam
Thank you for being so understanding
I have to say what John has told me has been a major find.
I get my 1000 posts on RC and then on the same day I make great inroads into my grandads service history! Best find in years!
How does it go ? Ask and ye shall find ?
Just keep asking!
:)