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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: maisiemiller on Wednesday 16 January 08 15:59 GMT (UK)
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Has anyone any information about james pile born 1796 in combmartin devon married to elizabeth 1796 kentisbury. I think james mother was jane pile born in 1760 in devon. Any info about james parents or the maiden name of his wife elizabeth would be very welcome.
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HI Maisie
Is it your James ( a farmer) and Elizabeth Pile , living in Linton in 1841? There is an older woman Miriam Pile (84) living with them.
deb
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I see the same family in 1851 ...James is born Combe Martin.
There is also these online document which may be your James and the Pile family ...
Information relating to document ref. no. 2309 B/W186
James Pile of Lynton, yeoman
Date: 1860
North Devon Record Office: Combe Martin Deeds, Etc B298
Assignments and conveyances plus legacies and probate of the Pile family.
Date range: 1774 - 1980.
deb
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Hi Deb On the 1841 census I found he was misspelt as Pelo but he was a farmer living in Linton with an elderly mother called Jane 81. All the children seem to fit as I am interested in Mary Pile who is my great great grandmother ::) What do you think?
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Deb the 1851 census you found if my James Pile. What do the documents found contain and how can I get a look. If they are in Devon I will have a 300 mile journey
Maisie
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Hi Maisie
I think the documents may be wills . You can orcer them online from the National Archives UK. not sure how much they are ...but it may gives names of other family members.
In 1841 ..on the original the elder lady is MIRIAM she is 84 and an Independent.
The Jane you are refering to Is Their Daughter Jane ..who is 8 ...she has a slash next to her age ... I think this was used when Counting or transcribing.
this is what appears on 1841 - the original
East Lyn
James PILE 45 Farmer
Elizb Pile 45
Mary " 14
David " 12
John " 10
JANE " 8
George " 6
James " 4
MIRIAM PILE 84 ind
I wonder if James' dad was named David ..as that is his eldest son's name ...
will look for more
deb ;D
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Thanks Deb At least I have got his mother out of it which helps a lot Jean ::)
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Lets hope it's his mum, could be his gran , as there is no relationships given in the 1841 census . Her death cert may reveal some clue ... I will look around for some siblings for him.
Maybe if we follow them further we may find a clue in the children's names ...
deb :)
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Deb just as a matter of interest how do you go about finding siblings for him? ::)
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Maisy ...
Sometimes I just look in the same area and find people with the same Surname ... especially those that have the same occupation .... Then I work from there to find their baptisms etc ....gotta keep trying to find a connection .... ;D
Hopefully we can find a Mr Pile marrying a Miriam/Marian at the right time in the right place ...
Another thing to do , is to order some birth certs of James Pile and Elizabeth ..in order to find her maiden name
Fortunately, James , the youngest son was b c 1838 ...so we could find his birth reg.
there is this birth reg:
James Pile
dec q 1837
Kingsbridge Devon
vol 9 pg 280
deb
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Here is Miriam Pile's death reg....
Mirriam Pile
Sept q 1846
Barnstaple
vol 10 pg 23
deb
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Found Miriams death myself hurray but I will send for James Piles birth certificate. I will let you know what info, but dont hold your breath as it takes a while
Maisie ::)
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This is weird I found a connection to the Pile family today and for some reason thought I'd check Devon entries and here you are a Pile thread ;D
What I have
Elizabeth PILE married William KELLY in Northam they had 6 children between 1843 and 1853 two being given the second name Pile
William remarried in 1856 so she must have died about 1853 as I say its early in my research let me know if any of this rings a bell
By the way William is from a family of publicans
Trees
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Hi Trees ... :D
I wonder if your Elizabeth Pile is related to James Pile , the farmer ...
When was she born ? Is Northam far from Lynton?
deb :)
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Hello Trees I havent got this particular Elizabeth in my tree. The age doesnt fit . Thanks. Although she could be some sort of relative. Maisie ::)
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Sorry had to go out for a while.
No Northam isn't near Lynton its between Westward Ho and Bideford
Elizabeth was born 1815 in Northam from the 1851 census
Trees
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Hi, I don't know if this thread is still active. Elizabeth Pile and William Kelly were my 3 x great grandparents, who lived in Appledore, and I have tracked the Piles (via IGI mostly) to Lynton. Elizabeth Pile 1814-1855 (she is buried in Northam churchyard) is the daughter of Benjamin Pile c1786-1833 and Bridget Keen c1784-1852. They are also buried in Northam churchyard, along with 5 of their daughters. Benjamin drowned in 1833 when the lifeboat capsized while attempting a rescue, so he was a real hero! Elizabeth Pile's sister Prudence married William Kelly's brother John - John, William, their brother Thomas and father John were all innkeepers in Northam and Appledore but each had another trade as well.
Benjamin was the 6th of 9 children - Grace 1776, James 1777, Mary 1779, William 1781, Ann 1783, Benjamin c1786, Prudence 1789, Frances 1791 and Philip 1794. Their parents were William Pile, bp Lynton 26 July 1749, and Mary Jones born Brendon c1759. They married in Lynton on 21 March 1774.
William's siblings were Grace 1743, Grace 1744, Prudence 1746and Benjamin 1752. Their parents were James Pile bp Lynton 23 Feb 1718 and Grace Knight bp Lynton 26 Feb 1723. They married in Lynton 30 Jan 1742. Grace's parents were William Knight bp Lynton 2 April 1686 and Rebecca Penhorwood bp Barnstaple 3 February 1697. They married in Barnstaple 23 January 1718. (This information is from other trees on Genes Reunited.)
James Pile's siblings were Elizabeth 1707, Benjamin 1711 and Edward 1715. Their parents were Benjamin Pile c1674-c1745 and Prudence Chipped c1674-c1729. They married in Lynton 5 August 1706. The 3 year spacing of their children suggests he might have been a mariner who went on long voyages, but this is purely a guess!
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Well this is most interesting I have much of ehat you tell here but did not know about Benjamin Pile's association with the life boat that is very interestng . At the moment I am away in our motor caravan so I wikll write more when I get ho,me sometime on Monday Great to meet you
Trees
Take a look at my website http://www.mcmullin.plus.com fora bit about the pubs the Kellys kept.
Click on occupations under the banner on our home page then click the Publicans on the drop down
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Hi, good to meet you too. I have photos of Benjamin's gravestone which I can email to you.
cheers, Linda
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Sorry - not concentrating - I don't know why I thought your name was James!
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I'd love that photo wil PM you many thanks
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Did you notice Bridget Pile nee Keen was a lava seller in 1851 HO107/1895 fo216 p30? Lava bread is still sold here in South Wales but I had no idea it was used in Devon interesting find
Did you find the Kelly publicans on my site?
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Yes I did notice the lava seller - we used to buy laver bread in Bristol in the early 1970s, at a greengrocers at the bottom of Blackboy Hill. I haven't bought any since living in Wales though!
And yes, I found the publicans on your website. The second John Kelly is the twin of Thomas, and both John senior and Thomas had a second occupation as ropemakers. Thomas is listed as ropemaker in 1851. William was also a bootmaker. Mary Ann Perry nee Sanders was his second wife and mother of Harriet. His first wife was Elizabeth Pile. Their oldest child Maria Pile Kelly, my great great grandmother, was barmaid in the Royal George in 1861. She married Herbert Ebenezer Glover, an Appledore mariner, in 1863 at Swansea Register Office. I wonder if his parents disapproved of him marrying the barmaid and so they went off to Swansea to get married! Pure speculation on my part, but I can't think of any other reason for them not to marry in Appledore.
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Yes I have the twins baptisms ( from Barnstaple RO)
KELLY John twin son of John and Sarah 20.11.1816 Appledore rope maker
KELLY Thomas twin son of John and Sarah 20.11.1816 Appledore rope maker
Have you got these?
Kelly, Thomas (1890) - Deed: Publican of Northam.
- 3 Dwelling Houses in West Appledore (Formerly One) Sold to Christopher Cobbledick (See Deeds of 10 Cross Street Northam). -
25/01/1892 - House in Irsha Street and Garden Conveyed to Him, Sometime in the Occupation of Grace Slade, Unto Use of Henry Granville Shirzill Wilkinson.
30/07/1872 - He Borrowed £70 from George Brayley-Brayley on 3 Houses in Cross Street and one in Appledore.
11/06/1892 - Mortgage to Secure £20 and Further Advances on 9, 10 and 11 Cross Street - Described as a Retired Innkeeper. - 01//03/1893
It seems Thomas was a man of property!
Thomas was a licencee in Fore Street in 1871 and at the Kingsley in 1881
Twin John was a publican and joiner in 1851 in West Street He is listed as a beer retailer in 1832 Slater's directory.
1857 WEST APPLEDORE
Alphabetical List of Professions, Trades, Etc
Kelly John, beer retailer, King's Head
1861 Irsha Street, Appledore
so its not clear which pub he was keeping and when he moved O suspect it was a beer house in
west Street probably selling a brew he made himself for a side line. He is always on baptisms of his children as a Joiner.
We think our Joseph Diment came across from Appledore to Porthcawl on a ship captained by a Bale cousin, as one minute he is a farm labourer in Abbotsham the next a Farm labourer in Laleston. We think Appledore was likely to have originally been Aber Torr (Mouth of the river Torr) we know there was a regular trade, coal to Devon and gravel back to Wales so it would be easy for anyone to nip across to Swansea or Porthcawl if they wanted to get wed away from the family. What do you think of this idea?
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No I haven't got all of those - thanks. Christopher Cobbledick also married a Kelly daughter, though I'll have to look it up to see which one! We found his gravestone in Northam churchyard too - I have lots of photos of Kelly and related gravestones in both Northam and Appledore.
Do you know the two books on Appledore by David Carter? Lots of useful information. He said that one of the 4 houses in The Path, which is off Irsha Street, was the King's Head, and when we stayed in Appledore just over a year ago we stayed at No 4 The Path.
“The property at numbers 1 and 2 was a pub called the King’s Head which dates back to at least 1822 when the landlord was Samuel Sanders. In the 1870s Christopher Cobbledick became the landlord, staying until the pub closed in 1901. When the house was renovated in the 1970s Cobbledick’s suit was discovered still hanging in a sealed chamber!”
Samuel Sanders may be connected to William Kelly’s 2nd wife Mary Ann Perry nee Sanders.
1871 Clark and Mary Swift are listed at the King’s Head, Irsha Street, Appledore.
Mary Ann Swift (c1843 – 1933) = daughter of John & Prudence Kelly. Clark Swift (c1841 – 1914) = innkeeper and mariner in 1871.
Christopher Cobbledick (c1837 – 1923) married Sarah (1840 – 1918), daughter of John and Prudence Kelly. In 1871 Christopher and Sarah Cobbledick were living in Fore Street, Northam with their 4 children, and either in the same property or next door to John Kelly senior and John Kelly junior, both widowed, and next to Thomas Kelly at the Kingsley Hotel on the other side. Thomas Kelly doesn’t appear on the Appledore censuses, implying that he’s in Northam. Ditto John senior.
I imagine there was plenty of traffic to and fro across the Bristol Channel - there must have been huge numbers of boats that people could hitch a ride on!