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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: Terie on Wednesday 16 January 08 19:45 GMT (UK)

Title: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Wednesday 16 January 08 19:45 GMT (UK)
Does anyone have a Bowie or Edmondson in their family tree from Hawick,

George Edmondson married Joan Bowie 8th Nov 1871, Hawick,

Isaac Edmondson married Jane Bowie 9th June 1876, Hawick.

George and Isaac were brothers, Joan Bowie was the Aunt of Jane Bowie.

William Bowie married Mary Renelson,1835. Hawick
Andrew Bowie married Margaret Byers. 1852 Roberton.
Walter Bowie married Jane Anderson. 1854 Hawick.
Hector Bowie married Ann King, 1861 Hawick.

All part of the same Bowie group,

Any Bowie researchers out there?

Amanda.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Ros Fornaro on Wednesday 16 January 08 22:48 GMT (UK)
Hi Terie,

Marriied into my tree is Andrew Tait Bowie born c1871 Hawick son of Henry and Elizabeth Bowie (Cochrane).  Andrew came to Geelong, Victoria, Australia.

Ros
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Thursday 17 January 08 03:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Ros, thanks for your reply,

Andrew Tait Bowie is part of the same Bowie family I listed,

Andrew Bowie born 30th June 1827 at Roberton married Margaret Byers in 1852, their children were,

James Tait Bowie born Roberton 1852,
Janet Bowie born Roberton 1853,
Helen Bowie born 1855,Died,
John Bowie born 1856,Died,
Henry Bowie born 1858,Married Elizabeth Cochrane 1879,
Gilbert Bowie born 1860,
George Bowie born 1862,
Helen Bowie born 1864,
Maggie Bowie born 1866,
Andrew Bowie born 1868,
John Bowie born 1871 married Annie Burns 1899.

Henry Bowie and Elizabeth Cochrane married 1879 Hawick,
children,
Andrew born 1879,
David born 1882,,died 1896 age 14yrs,
Maggie born 1884,
Henry born approx 1886,
James Tait Bowie born 1889.

Henry Bowie died 1893 age 36yrs,his wife Elizabeth Cochrane died 1924 age 70yrs.

Andrew Bowie born 1827 was the son of Andrew Bowie and Helen Tait, he died June 13th 1888 age 60yrs at 8 Gladstone St, Hawick,only his father was recorded, Andrew Bowie, Veterinary Surgeon,

Margaret Bowie,ms Byers died 1898,Hawick.

I have not been able to find a marriage record for Andrew Bowie and Helen Tait,
This Andrew Bowie was born approx 1800, died Oct 17th 1876 at 1 West Port,Hawick age 75yrs, recorded as single,
father William Bowie,Blacksmith,
mother Margaret Bowie ms Hogg.

If you would like any more details of the family please let me know, I believe there are still descendants of the Bowie family in Hawick, a James Tait Bowie died Nov 2005 in Hawick.

look forward to hearing back from you again,

Amanda.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Ros Fornaro on Thursday 17 January 08 04:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Amanda,

Andrew Tait Bowie married Gladys Una Pride on the 23rd March, 1910 at St. Andrews Charch, Geelong, Victoria, Australia.  She born 9th June 1887 Geelong daughter of William Henry Marsh and Martha Pride (Sheckell).  Jack Henry (Jock) born 1912 Geelong died 1996 in Tasmania, Australia.  Colin Anderson born 23rd August, 1919 Geelong.  Andrew was a foreman in West Hobart, Tasmania in 1913,  Gladys died on the 23rd March, 1973 in Geelong and is buried in Eastern Cemetery, Geelong.

I have spoken to Jock's wife in Launceston, Tasmania and will ring her this weekend to see if I can find you a contact.

Ros
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Ros Fornaro on Friday 18 January 08 03:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Amanda,

I have been given a contact number in Sydney for Sue Bowie who is a granddaughter of Andrew Tait Bowie.  Contact me by email and I will pass on your details.

Ros
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: *sparkle* on Friday 25 January 08 11:39 GMT (UK)
Hello  ;D

I need to have a think about this, as its quite exciting  ;D

But I have Margaret Byres and Andrew Bowie in my tree.

My g. grandfather was James Tait Bowie who married Barbara Hogg (my Nana  ;D)  (lived Hawick, m. 18.12.1914 )

His father was Henry Bowie who married Elizabeth Cochrane. (30.5.1879)

Henrys father was Andrew who married Margaret Byres as mentioned.

Now I have Andrew's father as Andrew Bowie (Blacksmith/ Vetrinary Surgeon) and his mother also as Helen Tait. They did not marry.

Father Andrew's Father was William Bowie, also a Blacksmith.

I havent got back any further. But you have just corroborated my research  ;D

*Off to celebrate*

Tx
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: *sparkle* on Friday 25 January 08 11:47 GMT (UK)
Heres James Tait Bowie (If I get this right, younger brother of Andrew who emigrated?) at Selkirk Common Riding. Wife Barbara is behind him to the right. I dont have any pictures of his Parents, but I have a few more of James if you are interested.

Tx
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Friday 25 January 08 15:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Sparkle,

thanks for your reply, what a great picture,

so far I believe the children of William Bowie, blacksmith and his wife Margaret Hogg, who were married 3rd Sept 1799,Hawick are;
son John born approx 1800 married Isabella Scott, John died around 1840. 6 known children.
son Andrew born approx 1801 died 1876, your branch.
dau Margaret born approx 1801 married William Kennedy, Margaret died at Jedburgh 1864.
son William born approx 1811married Mary Renelson,1835.
dau Euphemia born approx 1820 married Robert Murray, Euphemia died 1884.
son James born approx 1822 married Agnes Oliver,1860,James died 1870.no known children.


William Bowie,Blacksmith died in Hawick on Jan 9th 1859 age 89years, his parents were John Bowie,Blacksmith and Christina Bowie,ms Watson, informant James Bowie, son.


The OPR shows William Bowie ch 3rd May 1772,Cavers, father John Bowie,

William Bowie was buried at St Mary's Churchyard, Hawick 10th Jan 1859,
his wife Margaret Hogg buried there 19th March 1854 age 80years,

Also buried at St Mary's are William Bowie age 4years,March 1849, and Andrew Bowie age 3 years, June 1843, both sons of William Bowie, Blacksmith and Mary Renelson.

I am not connected to the Bowie family I was just doing some reseach for someone who is and got a bit carried away, any way I know 2 people who are,  Don who is from the John Bowie & Isabella Scott branch, and Elspeth who is from the Margaret Bowie & William Kennedy branch.

I have quite a bit of Census info and will send you a PM. also a list of the certificates I have,

Talk later,
Amanda.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: *sparkle* on Saturday 26 January 08 10:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Amanda,

I had Margaret Hogg but cant find her parents, only have her down as being born in Sanquar, Dumfriesshire (Ironically not too far from where I went to School...) but I hadn't started to look for their other children. I also didnt have William Bowies parents nor christening.  ;D

Am just returning your pm, so long as this wee boy sat on my knee stops pressing the keys with his tractor......................

Tx
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Sunday 30 March 08 19:46 BST (UK)
Dear Everyone,
I came across this by chance and am amazed.

My name is Jane Bowie, I'm the daughter of the James Tait Bowie who died in Hawick in November 2005 (and a very fine person he was, still not over losing him). There are indeed still Bowies in Hawick (close relatives of mine), and as regards those of us who have moved away, our hearts, believe me, are still there.

I haven't had time to read in detail all your messages but will send this page to my two sisters who live very near Hawick who will also inform my aunts in Hawick.

There are many Bowies in the Wilton cemetary at Hawick, including my grandfather, Andrew Bowie (died 1947, blacksmith) and Lily Bowie née Douglas, his wife, and my greatgrandparents James Bowie and Mary Best (of Gladstone St, Hawick, as mentioned by Amanda) and my great uncle Thomas Bowie (never married). I'll sit down and try to work out where they all fit into your research.

My family has been in Hawick for hundreds of years, apparently one Walter Bowie was blacksmith at Cavers (a brother of William or perhaps the same person, named by Amanda?) in 1750. A book I have published in 1913 named "Hawick in the early 60s" lists as Burgess in the town:
- Andrew Bowie, blacksmith, admitted as burgess of the town 13th October, 1842
..as having the municipal vote in the town in 1861:
- Andrew Bowie, horse shoer, West Port
I take a guess that we're speaking of the same Andrew Bowie in Amanda's list.

The municipal well in Drumlanrig St (I'll check) was known as Bowie's Well, I believe because the Bowie of that moment, being a blacksmith (what else?) drew his water there for the forge. The Bowies were always damn fine blacksmiths, and my grandfather Andrew Bowie paid dearly for it dying of lung cancer in 1947 in his early fifties.

My father was a veterinary surgeon (born Hawick, 1928, and he knew how to nail a shoe firmly onto a hoof), his father Andrew Bowie was a farrier, his father was James Bowie, apparently either a vet or a farrier, his father was apparently Andrew Bowie. The only male names of living Bowies in my near family that I know of are Andrew and James, we're speaking about a VERY traditional family.  The close relationship between the Bowies and horses is renowned in the area. My father was something of a horse whisperer and my sister has the same gift.

The Bowies of Hawick that I know are a close knit clan and my father loved the town with all his heart. Just in case you're interested apparently the surname comes from "Bhuidhe", Gaelic for yellow or fair.

It would be lovely to hear back, I can try to get info regarding any questions you may have about exact dates and addresses.

With regards to all,
Jane Bowie


Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: *sparkle* on Sunday 30 March 08 23:38 BST (UK)
I've sent you a message ;D

Its great to know theres lots more Bowies out there as my g.grandpa (the other James Tait Bowie) only had one child that survived beyond childhood which was my Granny; Agnes (Nan) Bowie, who was born at Gladstone Street. Our branch of the family is very small...

BTW I just did some google searching and found this:
http://www.scottishcorpus.ac.uk/corpus/search/document.php?documentid=1374
To summarise, a Mr Bowie, Farrier, is mentioned. Could this be your Grandfather?

Regards

Tx
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Monday 31 March 08 17:37 BST (UK)
Hi Jane and Sparkle,
thanks for your replies, Jane it is great that we have now have you to fill in some of the details on the Bowie family, I am not connected I'm afraid, well I have one or two family members who married in to the Bowie family way back but you 2 are definitely connected through the family of Andrew Bowie and Margaret Byers, Jane you will see from previous posts where the middle name of Tait comes from, way back to 1827 with the birth of Andrew Bowie,son of Andrew Bowie of Hawick and of Helen Tait of Eilridge,Roberton,born at Eilridge,30th June 1827,
the next entry on the OPR is, James Tait Bowie, son of Andrew Bowie and of Margaret Byers his spouse, born at Eilridge BurnFoot, 10th Jan 1852, baptized 12th April 1852 by the Rev Greenhill,
there is also Janet Bowie born 11th April 1853, baptized 24th Nov 1853, on the same page.

As you will see from previous posts Andrew and Margaret had 11 known children, if you would like more details please let me know, James born 1852 was the eldest son, one son John died May 21st 1870 age 13years at Shiplaw, Cavers, the youngest son was also John born 1871 who married Annie Burns,1899. I will send you a PM,
bye for now,
Amanda.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Sunday 18 May 08 11:38 BST (UK)
Sparkle and Terie:
Yes, that's definitely my grandfather mentioned in the wonderful document written in pure Terie. It's interesting to note that he was given the title of "Mr", apparently he was considered "middle class" in the town despite being an artesan, and at some point was able to buy in partnership Dovemount Motors in Wilton. It was very hard for my grandmother when he died prematurely as he was a tremendous worker and had a big sense of responsibilty towards his family.
It's lovely to know there's what would be considered a "scandal" by certain Victorian elements, ie a son born to an unmarried mother and a father who did his duty by recognising him. Who knows what happened. Did they subsequently marry? Or not? Just human curiosity. Who knows.
There used to be a custom known in Scotland as "bundling" whereby the courting couple were allowed to share a bed at night - but fully clothed and with a bolster over the girl's legs - to allow them to get to know each other better and decide if a marriage was the case. You can imagine that not everyone managed to stay bundled and perhaps it was just too difficult for young Andy and Nell, feisty Borderers that they were.
Jane
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Tuesday 31 March 09 18:34 BST (UK)
Hi Amanda,

I've been researching my family tree when I came across your message here in Rootschat.

If I am right George Edmondson and Joan Bowie are my g-g-grandparents.  They had 8 children. One daughter was called Janet Edmondson b1883 who married a George Henry Cairncross b1884.  They had a a daughter named Joan Bowie Cairncross b1910 who married a Richard David Wilkinson b1901 and they are my fathers parents.  All these people were born, married and died (my father is still alive) in Hawick.

I don't have any info on any Bowies, apart from Joan, but I do have stuff on the Edmondson side.  I will write it out first and check it to make sure its correct and it makes sense then post it here in the next few days.

Ritchie

PS Is Terie short for Terie Bus?
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Friday 03 April 09 18:42 BST (UK)
Hi Ritchie,

thanks for your reply,

Joan Bowie is part of the family I was researching,
she was the youngest child of John Bowie and Isabella Scott, the others were;
Isabella born approx 1826 married 1st William Turnbull,2nd John Ogilvie,she died 1897.
William born approx 1828,died 1888,single.
Walter born approx 1834 married Jane Anderson,1854,5ch,he died 1875.
Margaret born 1836 married Robert Balmer 1855,
Betty born approx 1838,died 1886,lived with Richard Whellans,

Isabella Bowie,Joan's mother died Nov 18th 1876 age 76yrs, buried Nov 20th in the Auld Kirk Yaird,Wilton.
father John Scott,
mother Isabella Scott,ms Turnbull.

on the 1841 census the surname is recorded as Boe in Hawick.

her husband John Bowie born approx 1800 is believed to be the son of William Bowie the blacksmith and Margaret Hogg married 1799,Hawick,John Bowie died around the same time as Joan was born,I could not find him on the 1841 census

look forward to hearing back from you,are you in Hawick or area?

I keep my Edmondson records seperate so will look through them again. If you would like any more Bowie info let me know.

Amanda.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Friday 03 April 09 19:43 BST (UK)
Hi Amanda,

Thanks for the info. It gives me plenty to work on.  I only joined roots this weak and already I have been given lots of info on other branches of my family tree.  Looks like I will be busy for a while.

I live in Galashiels, Selkirkshire.  Its about 18 miles from Hawick.  I was brought up in Innerleithen, Peeblesshire. My parents, grandparents and lots of aunts, uncles and cousins come from Hawick.

Whats your connection with Hawick?

I'm going to update my records now.  If I need anymore info I'll be in touch

Thanks

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Sunday 05 April 09 12:59 BST (UK)
Hi Amanda,

Got some info on Edmondsons for you.

Isaac b c1820 in Coldbeck, Cumberland. Married to a Isabella Montgomery.

Children of Isaac & Isabella

George b c1842, m Joan Bowie, d Mar 23 1900 Wilton, Hawick
Richard b c1843, m Elizabeth P
Johanna or Hannah b c1848 Stair, Cumberland
Isaac b c1856, m Jane Bowie June 9 1876, d Feb 16 1924 Dalry & Gorgie, Edinburgh

Children of George & Joan

Cathrine b c1863
John b c1868
Isabella b c1874
Isaac b c1876
Richard b c1878
Elisabeth b c1880
Janet b Sept 13 1883 Wilton, Hawick, m George Henry Cairncross Mar 22 1907 Hawick, d Sept 28 1971
George b c1887

Children of Janet & George Henry

Joan Bowie b1910, m Richard David Wilkinson, d June 29 1999 Hawick.

This takes a direct line up to my grandparents.

Different census records shows the name spelled differently, Edmondson, Edmundson and Edmonstone.

1851 shows the name Johanna but on the 1861 & 1871 census records she is Hannah.

I want to do more research before I give you any more info.  I hope to confirm what I have and find more stuff.

Bye for now

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Andrew R on Monday 06 April 09 19:40 BST (UK)
Sparkle

I see you have a Hogg interest, have you took a look at this thread "HOGG,GEORGE c 1820 Rox.Scot" I've dropped a heap of Hogg gravestone photos on it

You may want to have a look.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: *sparkle* on Wednesday 08 April 09 11:16 BST (UK)
Thanks Andrew, have taken a look, but sadly don't look like mine.

Ritchiewilk... looks like we share a link through William Bowie, blacksmith and Margaret Hogg :)

I'm not from Hawick, but my Granny was and used to visit a lot while we were wee, but sadly no longer have any relatives to visit so haven't been for a long long time. Another co-incidence is that my Mum was born in Gala, and still have family there :)

Cheers
Tx
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Wednesday 08 April 09 21:24 BST (UK)
Hi Sparkle,

Congratulations, your the first distant relative I have come across

Have I got the connection correct?  It's your Andrew b1801 and my John b1800.

You should get yourself back to Hawick for a visit some day.

The photo of James Tait Bowie at Selkirk Common Riding looks like it was taken at a place in Selkirk called "The Toll".  It's a steep banking at the side of the main road coming in from the north of the town.  This is where people gathered to get a good view of the horses as they entered Selkirk.


Talk to you soon
Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Thursday 09 April 09 11:58 BST (UK)
So I guess I'm a distant relative too, though I haven't worked anything out yet. Jane Bowie  :)
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: *sparkle* on Thursday 09 April 09 13:38 BST (UK)
Yes Jane you are definitely a relation too. Did you ever get my reply to your email a wee while ago? No worries if not.

But I believe we are related through Andrew Bowie(b1827) & Margaret Byres (your G.G grandparents, my G.G.G grandparents); their son James Tait Bowie was your G. Grandfather (who married Mary Best)
I'm related through James Tait Bowie's brother Henry Bowie. If I'm right  ??? we are 3rd cousins once removed.

And we are both related to Ritchie through william Bowie and Margaret Hogg; the grandparents of Andrew Bowie (b1827) so 5th cousins +/- a removal... or something

Think I have Bowie headache now.... ;D

Although not fully up to date my tree is here:
http://rammell.tribalpages.com/?userid=rammell&x=8&y=13

Ritchie - I didn't have John in my tree; but yes Andrew Bowie is the son of William and Margaret. I dont have a birth date for Andrew, but it seems to be about 1804. I will add John in. Do you have a birth date for him? I only had note of the other siblings as they were still living with William and Margaret in the 1841 census.

Cheers
Tx
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Saturday 11 April 09 00:37 BST (UK)
Hi,

I don't have a date of birth for John, only his death date 28/5/1841.  He should be on the 1841 Scotland census as it was taken in June, unless he was in England at the time, or hospital if he was ill.  Were census records taken of people in hospital?  I don't know.  So far I can't  find him.

Cheers

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Friday 17 April 09 21:08 BST (UK)
Hi Amanda,

I've got some more info on the Edmondsons.  You will see its all Isaacs.

Isaac born c1820 Coldbeck, Cumberland died 19/6/1855 Hawick
His son
Isaac born 4/6/1855 Hawick died 16/2/1924 Edinburgh
His son
Isaac born 28/9/1876 Hawick died 2/1/1942 Hawick

Sons of George and Joan

Isaac born 22/9/1870 Hawick died 4/3/1871
Isaac born 11/1/1872 Hawick died 15/1/1874
Isaac Walter born 7/6/1876 died 1959 Galashiels

Son of Richard and Elizabeth

Isaac born 12/6/1869 Hawick died unknown

Son of Johanna

Isaac born 11/1/1872 Hawick died 28/12/1873 Hawick (illegitimate)

 I got all the birth and death dates from the scotlandspeople website.  Still got alot to research.  I will get back to you when I have more info.

Cheers

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Sunday 19 April 09 08:24 BST (UK)
Sorry if my reply is a comment and not more concrete info, but I can't help trying to read the human story behind the dates. It's so sad, this desperate attempt to have a son who must have the name Isaac we can read in the two deceased infants and the third child who lived. It must have been this couple's dearest wish.
How tragic the death of a father only a couple of weeks after his son's birth. A young widow with an infant, not easy in Hawick in those days.
Interesting that someone died in Edinburgh but his son back in Hawick. My grandfather Andrew Bowie also lived for a time in his youth in Edinburgh, but returned to live in Hawick as an adult, going back only when he was on his deathbed to pass away in the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary of lung cancer from his forge in Havelock St (Wilton).
The passing on of a name seems to have been SO important in Hawick, the Bowies in my branch are all James or Andrew, with other names creeping in only for rare third sons.

For anyone who is interested: Hawick at the time many of the Isaacs listed didn't make their second birthday seems to have been suffering economic depression. Many were stocking makers and worked in their own homes, now unable with their hand looms to compete with the Leicester and Nottingham mechanised trade. One Bessie Sanderson, 13, commenced work at 7am and finished at 6pm, after which she did seaming work till 9pm. Her youngest colleague was 8 years old.
One Colin Rae, 11, worked from 6 or 7am till 8pm as a winder, two 45-minute breaks to eat.
May Bell, 7, was a winder in her father's stocking shop and for the rest of the day looked after the younger children.
Very few children attended school after 9 years of age.
(from my wonderful book: Hawick in the early sixties, James Edgar, publ. The Hawick Express Office, 1913)
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Monday 04 May 09 15:50 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I've added a few photos of headstones of Bowies and Edmondsons I found in various cemeteries in Hawick.

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Monday 04 May 09 15:55 BST (UK)
More photos
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Monday 04 May 09 22:34 BST (UK)
Hi,

Thought I would share this with you.

Isaac Edmondsons, b c1820, son George, b c1842, married Joan Bowie, b c1842.  They had a daughter, Janet Edmondson, b 1883, who married George Henry Cairncross, b 1884.  They had a daughter, Joan Bowie Cairncross, b 1910, who married Richard David Wilkinson, b 1901, my grandfather.

With me so far? Good

Isaacs second son Richard, b c1843 married Elizabeth Pattison Kennedy, b c1849, and they had a son John, b 1892 who married Jessie Hogg Wilkinson, b 1893 who was Richards half sister :o

As stated in the first post Joan Bowie was Jane Bowies aunt.  Janes father was Walter b 1834, Joans elder brother.

I was trying to work out how aunts, uncles, in laws and cousins would all tie in but I was getting confused.  I think I will leave it for another day. :-\

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Saturday 09 May 09 15:57 BST (UK)
Hi,

I have been doing more research into the Bowies and Edmondsons of Hawick.  You may already have this info but I thought I would share it anyway.

I stated on a previous post that Cathrine Edmondson b1863 and John Edmondson b1868 were the children of George Edmondson and Joan Bowie.  This info is not entirely true. ::)

Cathrine was born Catherine Bowie (illegitimate) on 31/3/1863 in Hawick.  Mother Joan Bowie.  No fathers name.

John was born on 28/3/1868 in Hawick and given the name John Bowie (illegitimate) mothers name Joan Bowie with no fathers name.

1871 scottish census has her as Catherine Oliver grandaughter.  Other names on the census were Isabella Bowie 69 head, Joan Bowie 28 daughter and John Bowie 3 grandson.

Catherine and John are shown as Edmondsons on the 1881 census as daughter and son living with George Edmondson and Joan.

Marriage records for Catherine have her as Catherine Oliver marrying Robert Anderson on 31/12/1884 in Wilton.  Her parents names given were George Oliver (deceased) reputed father and Joan Bowie now wife of George Edmondson butcher.

Looks like Joan was a naughty girl.  Who was Johns father?  I wonder if George Oliver had anything to do with his daughter or did he run a mile?  Did Catherine change her name by deedpole?  So many questions still to answer. ???

I'll keep digging for more info when i get more credits for scotlandspeople and I will keep you informed

Bye for now

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: son of sandy on Wednesday 27 May 09 15:09 BST (UK)
Hi Everybody,
Read your comments with interest,Willam Bowie/Margaret Hogg are my 4x great grandparents,through their daughter Margaret marrying Robert Kennedy,same line as Elspeth.
I have been unable to locate death record of Margarets'brother William,found his wife Marys' death in 1878,can anyone help?
Margaret also had a brother Crosbie,I am sure there were others,but so far have not been able to find them.
Read Ritchies comments about Joan Bowie,she had a sister Elizabeth,[Bessie] who never married,but had quite a few children.
I was born in Duns,but now live in North London.
Gerry.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Wednesday 27 May 09 19:26 BST (UK)
Hi Gerry,

Welcome to Rootschat.  You will enjoy it here.  There are loads of people here with loads of experience who are always willing to help you if you have a question or two, or twenty. :)

So far I only have census records for Elizabeth.  They show that she had 4 children, John born c1865, Isabella born c1872, Helen born c1874 and Catherine born c1879.  I found a death record for a Margaret Bowie b1869 (illegitimate) who died 4 days after birth.  There was no fathers name on the death record,  Does this tie in with what you have?

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: son of sandy on Thursday 28 May 09 20:13 BST (UK)
Ritchie,
This is what I have on Elizabeth,
Isabella  20/03/1858-24/07/1858
John       16/05/1859-20/08/1859
Isabella  10/05/1860-10/05/1860  [1 hour old]
John       12/07/1861-25/07/1861
John       16/11/1862-18/04/1864
John       15/11/1864-? think he was married to a Margaret Ferguson,on 1871 census he is called John Bell,possible fathers name?
George   28/01/1867-04/04/1867
Margaret 12/03/1869-16/03/1869
Isabella  03/07/1871-?
Helen     12/03/1873-?
Catherine 05/04/1879-1962.on husbands' death cert her name is given as Catherine Bowie Whellans in 1881 census she is with her mother and surviving siblings living with a Richard Whellans,possible father?
All of them with the exception of Helen were born in Hawick,Helen in Bridgeton,Lanark.
All the Isabellas' and Johns' are obviously named after her parents.
Have'nt found any more,poor woman died in 1886,all these kids in 20 years must have taken its toll.
Gerry.
















Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: *sparkle* on Friday 05 June 09 09:51 BST (UK)
I've just been looking into Walter Bowie's death on the new release of OPRs...... And found this for the 12th Nov 1792.... and seemed appropriate to ask on this thread as I think we all have a link back to Walter.

It looks like its not his death; I can make it out except for the last word:

Walter Bowie smith's Child drowned in a B???

It looks like Bouie?? Anyone know better than me?

Wonder who the child was and why the child wasnt named?? Seems odd.

Tracey
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Tuesday 14 July 09 09:45 BST (UK)
Oh no, all these poor children and grieving parents, this is so sad.
I've looked for the word "bouie" which doesn't ring any "terie" bells (that's what I read too) and can't find any Scots equivalents. I'll try to check it out with my elderly Bowie relatives when I'm over in Hawick next time.
The strange thing is that "Bouie" is very similar to the original Gaelic form of "Bowie" and exists as a surname (though in America may also be derived from French "Bouvier") so it connects but seems terribly illogical as an object or geographical feature containing water. Such a pity my dad isn't around anymore as the last Bowie I know of to have experience of working in the family forge, maybe it was the name of some kind of barrel or trough inherent to the forge.
Jane
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ritchiewilk on Tuesday 14 July 09 17:51 BST (UK)
I've just been re-reading the messages on here and I was thinking Tracey, the "Bouie" you are asking about could it refer to the "Bowie Well" Jane mentioned in her post dated 30 march 2008?

Ritchie
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Wednesday 15 July 09 17:02 BST (UK)
This also crossed my mind. I was unsure about the idea as the well was situated in or near the Sand Bed if I remember (street in Hawick) while the info I have on Walter Bowie is that he was from Cavers. Of course the well could have been part of the family's "work patch" for many years which would explain the name, after all it was known by that name in the 19th century, more or less only 100 years or 3 generations after the certificates regarding Walter seem to be dated. But poor old Wat had quite a journey to work every day if that's the case. Perhaps he was well off enough to have an old horse or pony for transport.
Then again it may be a family value. My grandfather Andrew Bowie (the last Bowie blacksmith as far as I am aware) would go out to the farms on the bus to do their work during the 20s, 30s and 40s, and not stop until he'd finished, even though it meant missing the last bus home and having to tramp 10 miles or more, getting back in the wee small hours. Life was hard.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Thursday 16 July 09 12:23 BST (UK)
Hi everyone!
Since I'm visiting my family soon I've been charting all your information which I am really grateful for. My father always wondered where his middle name "Tait" came from and knew there were a lot of James Taits and other Taits in the family but not why. I think it would have tickled his fancy to know about Helen Tait who never bothered to get married.  ;)
 
Just in case I haven't mentioned anything I know here is the info I can give you summed up:

- following down the Andrew Bowie (1827-1888) and Margaret Byers (1829-1898) line:
son James Tait Bowie (1852-?) m Mary Best (1860-?)

I have always heard talk of THREE SONS:
James (I don't know if he was number 1 or 2) who married and has descendents living in the north of England, still Bowie by surname, the only males with the surname from this branch

Thomas who didn't marry, and I think was the youngest


- Andrew b.1894 or 1897  m  Lily Fraser Douglas (b. c 1897 Appletreehall, Hawick, d. c 1973 Hawick)
my GRANDPARENTS
three children, the second was my FATHER, James Tait Bowie born Hawick 9th August, 1928, in the living room of his house, with his umbilical cord firmly round his neck (a so-called blue baby). Passed away 17th Nov 2005.

Sorry if I don't fill you in on his siblings and descendents, it's for a question of privacy as I don't have their permission as of yet. I always visit the graves of my family every year and must remember to note down all the dates mentioned on them for you.

I am very vague about the well, and will get its position for you when I'm back but I know it was in the old part of Hawick (Wilton was at the time a separate parish) and I believe my mother still has a print of an old photo of it. For me it fits in with John Bowie - William Bowie - Walter Bowie line, who founded the blacksmith/ veterinary surgeon line of the family which runs without interruption until the last blacksmith, my grandfather Andrew Bowie, passed away from lung cancer from his forge in 1947, and my father James Bowie, veterinary surgeon with a great ability to shoe a horse, passed away in 2005. My son, also James, dreams of becoming a vet without me every having filled his head with family stories, so perhaps the line carries on.

My aunt had vague knowledge of a Walter Bowie, blacksmith (the words horse shoer and farrier also crop up) of Cavers in the 1750s (but doesn't remember if this is a birth or marriage date), I would guess him to be the same Walter Bowie, horse shoer, who lost his child in a "bouie" 12/11/1792. Could he be an uncle of William Bowie (b. 3rd May 1772) and brother of John Bowie? (only news I have of him is that he married Christina Watson and they produced William). The dates fit, the family occupation fits.

I am tickled pink by the vast numbers of illegitimate children, though I think it could be interesting to look into old Scottish marriage law, which was dying out by the late 1800s but probably survived in extremely rural, cut off areas like Hawick. There was a law whereby cohabitation would lead to the couple being socially considered married as may have been the case with Helen Tait (who seems to have been true to her man) and the prolific Elizabeth. I found this explanation on the web:

"Until recently in Scotland, there was a form of common law marriage called 'marriage by cohabitation with habit and repute'. The theory behind this law was that if a man and woman cohabited as husband and wife in Scotland for sufficient time and were generally held and reputed to be husband and wife and were free to marry each other, they would be presumed to have consented to marry each other and if this presumption was not overturned, they would be considered to be legally married. This form of common law marriage has now been abolished by the Family Law (Scotland) Act 2006 which came into force on 4 May 2006."

I can't find a legal explanation for the intersting Edmondson marriage where Richard's son John married his father's half sister - any chance she was really a STEP sister (the two terms get very confused in some documents, if she was a step sister she was no blood relation and therefore could legally marry her "nephew").

I get so sad when I see all these poor parents losing their children young. Thanks heavens for modern medicine.

I have a couple of other things but will put them in other messages or I will dae yer heids in!

Jane
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Thursday 16 July 09 12:26 BST (UK)
Question: I note the mention on one of the headstone photos published here of Helen Bowie Scott died 17th March 1905, aged 70, wife of ???, mother (?) of Elizabeth Cairns Scott b. 25th Aug 1870, d. 6th May, 1919.
Any ideas where these ladies fit in?
Jane
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Thursday 16 July 09 12:42 BST (UK)
In a previous message I mentioned records of:

the Burgess Roll of Hawick which showed Andrew Bowie blacksmith admitted as Burgess on 13th October, 1842.
He is again mentioned as a Voter in the town (and therefore a home owner and reasonably well off person) in the Slitrig Ward (residing West Port) in 1861.

I assume this is the Andew Bowie b. c 1804 "best friend" of Helen Tait, son of William Bowie and Margaret Hogg.

Not mentioned on the Burgess Roll of 1860, but mentioned as a Voter in 1861 in the North High St Ward, is James Bowie, veterinary surgeon, 43 High St, who I assume to be Andrew's brother, b. 1822.

The other brothers either weren't as well off or couldn't be bothered to make the effort to pay their way into the voting class.

Question:someone mentioned a CROSBIE (BOWIE?) as a brother of Margaret b. 1801 d. 1864 Jedburgh m. William Kennedy (same family of siblings as the abovementioned Andrew and James): does anyone have any info on where he crops up from as he seems to be left out of all family trees?

All the best to you all!
Jane
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Thursday 16 July 09 12:50 BST (UK)
Hi, came across this exchange: the fact that a James Bowie happens to be a blacksmith rings a bell, as does a "lost in the mists of time" family legend of emigrating relatives being involved in a shipwreck. Do you think there could be a connection?
Jane
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: janebowie on Thursday 16 July 09 13:21 BST (UK)
Click here and scroll down to the 5th photo: "the lasses".
Cornet's Lass Mary Bowie (the second from the left). (my auntie)
Jane  :D
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick: "bouie"
Post by: janebowie on Wednesday 22 July 09 11:11 BST (UK)
Hi everyone, by chance I came across this interesting document on the Internet:
http://www.astro.ubc.ca/people/scott/book.pdf
There are several listings under "Bowie", including the fact that a "bowie" (alternatives I have seen in many places to the name include "bouie") is a "hard, shallow dish, a round wooden vessel for potatoes etc".
I therefore ask myself if the death of the child of Walter Bowie in 1752 "drowned in a bouie" is a case of negligence while bathing an infant, maybe some eejit went to do the 18th century equivalent of answering the telephone leaving a child of a few months alone in the bath.
Jane
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Fiona513 on Saturday 14 February 15 13:14 GMT (UK)
Hi all
My second Great Grandmother was Jane Hogg Bowie, who married Isaac Edmondson, in June 1876.

I have been trying to map out our tree but, needless to say, have a few gaps.

Exciting to be on here reading the history.

Fi
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: sarah on Monday 16 February 15 16:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Fi,

Welcome to RootsChat :)

janebowie's emails are not currently working but think that we have been able to notifiy her of your new reply.

Regards

Sarah :)
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Fiona513 on Tuesday 17 February 15 09:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Amanda

Isaac & Jane .. my 2nd Great Grandparents  :)

Regards

Fiona
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Sunday 05 April 15 00:53 BST (UK)
Hi Fiona, good to make contact with you,
Amanda.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Fiona513 on Monday 14 November 16 19:07 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Joan Bowie Cairncross is my 2nd cousin twice removed,
Isaac Edmondson, son of Isabella Montgomery is my 2nd G-Grandfather
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Sunday 05 February 17 02:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Fiona, are you still looking for Edmondson info?
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: sarah on Sunday 05 February 17 16:46 GMT (UK)
Quote
Hi Yes I am. Just took a quick peek and so many of the names on your board are in my tree but just moved so emptying boxes should come before my family tree.

So thankful for the contact as many of my relatives went to Canada

Regards

Fiona Turner (nee Glass)

Message posted on behalf of Fiona :) To reply to your messages on RootsChat you need to log into RootsChat and click on the blue reply button Fiona ;) Regards Sarah
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Thursday 02 March 17 02:06 GMT (UK)
OK no rush, let me know if I can help in any way.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Loops2310 on Sunday 27 August 17 09:56 BST (UK)
Hi Amanda

I know your post was quite awhile ago so I am hoping that you will check in and see this.
My great grandfather was Isaac Edmondson, whose parents where Isaac Edmondson and Jane bowie from Hawick, it would seem we may be searching for the same people?
I would love if you could get in touch and we could share what we know, although I am only starting out on my journey!

Thanks
Louise
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: ajjbc on Sunday 27 August 17 15:02 BST (UK)
Teri,
 A wee bit off the busy ongoing subject....I am interested who your HUGGAN is.
Title: Re: Bowie,Edmondson,Hawick.
Post by: Terie on Monday 04 December 17 18:53 GMT (UK)
 I've done a lot of research on the Huggan family in Hawick, originally from Jedburgh, would need to dig out the file, though I am not directly descended from them, I think there is one of my Stevensons who married a Huggan, give me a few day to figure it out, feel free to start a new thread.