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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => East Lothian (Haddingtonshire) => Topic started by: tidybooks on Thursday 17 January 08 11:21 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
Some of my relatives have registered deaths by drowning on same date, the father James Harkes (b 1851), son Peter Harkess (b 1877) and crewman Alexander Berg (b 1871) location of drowning is 5 miles north of Gullane Ness in East Lothian.
I do not have a subscription to Scotsman Archives ( a bit expensive) if someone can confirm the headline, "The Cockenzie Disaster" printed on 17th October 1892, 3 days after the accident, is indeed about this family. If so, I will purchase a short term license. It is £7.99 a day and about £150 per annum.
Tom
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Tom,
I ventured forth into the the rain and had a look for the paper edition at the Edinburgh Room, instead of on the www. As you say it is a bit expensive if you have only one thing to look for. Just realised I could have made a copy and posted it here - hindsight is a great thing.
The piece was in the 15th October edition and it tells of the loss of the yawl "James and Robert'" which left for the fishing in Largo Bay. 6 miles from Methil they were struck by heavy seas and were observed sinking by the "Leading Wind" All five were lost:
George Ritchie (33) Skipper left a widow and 5 children
James Harkies (45) a widow and 8 children
Peter Harkies (15) (son)
John Ritchie (18) son of Robert Ritchie
Alexander Berg (19) who lived with his widowed mother.
The skipper of the "Leading Wind" advised the Rev William Ogg of the Free Church of the loss.
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Hi Akwaba,
That is a great reply so sorry you had to brave the elements to find it. I really appreciate it and I have now given the info to the great grandaughter of James Harkes who perished. Her grandfather, Alexander Harkes was only 2 when incident happened, so not too familiar with this story.
This is truly power of the Roots Chat , when people like you go out of their way to assist others in their research. it is really appreciated and makes a difference, Thanks very much.
Tom
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Hi I am related to the Harkess family from Dunbar through Ann Stewart who married John Tear - is this the Stewart you are researching? Ann Stewart was my Gr/Grandmother born 1846 in Dunbar - daughter of John Stewart and Marion Tear.If this is your Stewart would be glad to exchange info. Nan
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Hi Heidibee,
Sorry, Ann Stewart from Dunbar not in my family, we are from Prestonpans/Port Seton/Tranent area.
Tom
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Heidibee I have a Marion Tear who married William Alexander Harkess Oct 1906 Dunbar. I am researching Harkess of Dunbar and other East Lothian sites. Please contact me with regards to Harkess of Dunbar. Would like to share with you and see where we tie in ;D
e mail (*)
Neil
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Hi my mother-in-law was a Harkess from Port Seton. I believe her dad was a fisherman named James and her mother was named Christine (Chrissie) . She has three siblings, Charles (Charlie), Alex & James (Jim). Perhaps she's related?
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Hi Neil here is your Chrissy Christina Donaldson Watson who married James Harkess in 1940. I have their children as (*)
Canada :)
Moderator Comment: Details of people who may possibly be living have been removed, as part of RootsChat's policy to protect living people's identity.
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Hi MLV & Desperate Dan (Neil),
I am familiar with Jim Harkess and Chrissie Watson, who are both deceased now, I know all the children, 3 boys and a girl. I went to school with one son, another worked with BT as I did. Unfortunately, RootsChat does not allow to discuss living people on open forum.
You can use the PM system when you have made 3 posts. I notice Neil you are from Canada, surely not Neil Spacinky, who was related to the Harkess clan from East Lothian. We contacted each other through Ancestry a few years ago, how did your Clan Gathering go?
Tom Buchanan
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Hi my mother-in-law was a Harkess from Port Seton. I believe her dad was a fisherman named James and her mother was named Christine (Chrissie) . She has three siblings, Charles (Charlie), Alex & James (Jim). Perhaps she's related?
Hi MLV,
I think I know your mother in law and her family, if you can make 3 posts we can communicate with the PM system, as we are not allowed to discuss living persons on RootsChat. If you reply to this post that will be two posts. Ask mother in law if she has parents marriage certificate, this will give her grandparents, may ne able to get back farther with these details.
Tom Buchanan
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Hi MLV,
I have had a look at my tree and I think Jim Harkess's father was Alexander Harkess, who was the youngest child of the James Harkess who drowned in 1892.
Alexander Harkess (b 1890 d 1960) married Rosina Lister ( b 1893 d 1961), could this be the grandparents of your mother in law?
Tom
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Tom it has been a long time we spoke or communicated. Will PM you or e mail you as still have your address. More later.
Neil aka Desperate Dan
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MLV as Tom suggested post 3 messages and then PM me.
Neil aka Desperate Dan
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I will ask her next time we speak.
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Hi Tom, (Janice) said to say hi! she recognised your name straight away and told me she had been at school with your sister.
Hi Neil , yes you have the right Chrissie! they were Janice's parents. I will P.M you both tomorrow if I'm able.
Mandy
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Is this thread still active?As i can give more information on the status of the Harkess family that you are asking about.
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Yes the research on the Harkes family continues. Look forward to hearing from you
Neil
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I can tell you about the family as it exist now.My Grandfather and Grandmother were Jim and Chrissie if that helps any.
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That would be great PM me and we can chat about my reserach as well.
Neil
Canada
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Can i ask how you are related or if not related what your interest is?
Without sounding cheeky :)
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I completely understand your concerns and I will address in a separate message.
Neil
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Hi westwards,
I think you maybe related to MLV, who was on this thread earlier. As I mentioned I was at school with Alex Harkess, when I stayed in Port Seton.
Tom
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Hi - my family are Harkess's from Preston Pans!... my dad is the son of James Harkess and his name is John Donaldson Harkess. I don't really know too much about my grandfathers upbringing but I can find out! He was in a pit fire and was off work for ages. He moved to Bailliston where he and my gran had my dad. Myself brother and sister are the only 3 Harkess's left of our bloodline as much as we are aware. Also it says I can't use just just yet as I just joined. I stumbled across this website by googling my surname. So if you want to get s hold of me I guess it's on this public forum :). Lucy
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Hi Lucy,
I have had a look for a birth of John Donaldson Harkess in East Lothian, and there is one in 1917 in Prestonpans, but due to 100 year rule on Scotland Peoples site, cannot get access to it online yet. Do you have a copy of his birth certificate?
Tom
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I can see if my dad has it - he probably will. Grampa Pop (as we called him) lived till he was 95 - so this could well be him! I will check with my dad tomorrow for you.
Are you are Harkess too?
Lucy Harkess
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Hi Lucy,
If you have his death certificate, as well, can also help with research. I had a look on 1911 census but never got a good result, for a James Hark*ess to father your father in 1917. Could it be he was somewhere else if he was a miner, my "miner" relatives moved from ayrshire to West Lothian then to East Lothian.
Tom
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Hi Tom, my father is still alive and was born in 1955, but I'm not sure that James was my grandfathers actual first name as it seems like a lot of nicknames went around. From memory my grandfather was born early December but I'm sure dad will have all this stored somewhere...
I will ask him for you as he is very keen to trace his Preston pans relations.
I also believe my grandfather was in the war too so I will also check this out for you.
I'm off to bed as its 1:16am here and I need to get up in 6 hours.
Lovely to speak with you and will be in touch!
Lucy
(potential many times removed cousin - ha ha)
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Are you are Harkess too?
Lucy Harkess
No, I am a Buchanan, fishing and mining family from Cockenzie and Port Seton, Prestonpans and Tranent were nearest registrars, so many people from village were registered in either place.
Tom
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I don`t remember any Harkess relatives from Prestonpans,James was from Port Seton though Chrissie was from Prestonpans,there were relatives but not Harkess relatives,that said maybe the Harkess family branched off at some point earlier and some lived in Prestonpans.I personally don`t remember ever hearing the name in Prestonpans,only Port Seton.There is a possibility that it`s a different family.The name Harkess and it`s different variations is reasonably local,though closer to the borders.The name James does appear to be very popular to the Harkess family though.
cheers
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Hi Westwards,
The fact that he has "Donaldson" as a middle name, makes me think he is connected to Cockenzie somehow. Some people were born in Cockenzie but registered in Prestonpans or Tranent as they were nearest registrars. LucyAH1985 may come back with some details today. Her father is 7 years younger than me, so we may get lucky.
Tom
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Hi all - sorry for late reply - I have been working. I spoke to my dad tonight and he confirmed that my grandfather James Harkess was from Preston pans. I have sent him the link to this and he will come and join the conversation as he is keen to learn more about our roots. This may be tomorrow now as he is just back from holiday. The only other info I can give as I was so young when my grandparents died are that my grandfather a harkess (James) married Elizabeth (I don't know her maiden name infortunately as she died when mum was pregnant with me) my grandfather must be on record somewhere as he escaped a great pit fire and was badly burned. I will see if I can find any record of this for you all. Failing that dad - will be in touch. We also have relatives on that side who live in America. Dunno if they will remove this but I can be contact at lucyharkess@hotmail.com x
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Also to add to the James thing my little brother is John James Harkess, named after grampa Harkess and Dad! I'm convinced there is something in this guys! If possible can you chuck me an email when you reply as this is a web page on an iPhone and doesn't give alerts! Cheers! Lucy Harkess x
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Hi Lucy,
Can you get more info please, where and approx when, was your grandfather married to Elizabeth?
When did your Grandfather die, can get wife's name of the DC. What pit did your grandfather have the fire in, and when approx. my father worked in Prestonlinks pit in Prestonpans.
Tom
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Tom, thanks for email alert. Dad is the wealth of knowledge on this, I will make sure he comes on tomorrow and gives all the answers he can. As I said my grandparents on that side were very old when I was born and 1 died before I was born so I didnt learn too much. Dad did ask if you would email him? He hasn't seen the post at all yet but his email is John.Harkess@tesco.net. Of you would fill him on he would be greatly interested. He also has a degree in history so this is totally doubly (if that makes sense) up his street! Lucy x
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Also I would greatly appreciate if you would copy me in - that way I can make sure he replied to you! L x
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Hi Lucy,
Can you remove the email addresses, it is against RootChat's rules, prevents you from being spammed etc.
Tom
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Hi Lucy,
I have found a James M. Harkness on 1st August 1929, giving evidence that gas was present on the day previous to an explosion that 2 miners subsequently died. This was reported in scotsman on 22 October 1929 and in miners website, http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/353.html (http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/353.html) .
Could this be your grandfather?
I note the spelling is Harkness not Harkess, but this happened occasionally.
Tom
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Hi Lucy,
I have found a birth certificate listing on http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) in 1909 at Prestonpans, East Lothian for a James McLellan Harkess, and found his death certificate in 1995 in Baiilieston, and he was 85 yo.
A possible marriage in 1945, to an Elizabeth Stevenson in Old Monkland (Western District), Lanarkshire.
Tom
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Hi Lucy,
I have also found your grandmother's Elizabeth Harkess nee Stevenson death certificate in 1983 at Baillieston, aged 71.
Tom
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Re sinking of 1892, my father told me that some of his relations were drowned in a sinking before he was born in 1909. I think it was his grandfather. He was one of the men who were questioned in the enquiry into the 1929 pit explosion at Preston links pit. His name was spelt wrongly in the report. My father's name was James M Harkess and NOT Harkness as reported in the press.
I am John Donaldson Harkess and my mother was Elizabeth Harkess nee Stevenson. This is in response to my daughter Lucy posting earlier.
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Hi John,
Thanks for the info, I will need to try and trace back to the crew that died. I know they are spelt differently but this happened a lot, at that time.
Tom
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Hi John,
I don't know if you have your fathers Birth Certificate, if you want I can send a copy, but he was born in 10 West Seaside, Prestonpans. If you put that on Google maps you get a great view of Cockenzie Power station at one side, and Edinburgh and Arthurs Seat on the other side, and of course, the Firth of Forth.
Your grandfather, was your namesake, John Donaldson Harkess and grandmother Alison Drysdale McLelland, who were married on 31st Dec 1908 at Prestonpans.
Tom
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Hi John and all,
Got your grandparents marriage lines, John Donaldson Harkess 23 yo Coal Miner married Allison Drysdale McClelland, 27 yo Domestic Servant. Your grandfather's address was 8 South Doors, Cockenzie, same street my father's family grew up at 5 South Doors.
Your great-grandfather, was James Harkess, a Fisherman (Deceased), great grandmother was a Margaret Donaldson, where you get your middle name from.
So now got your family back to Cockenzie as fisherman, in the correct area for the family being lost at sea. Now just need to tie up their relationship up.
Tom
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Hi John,
I have got your great-grandfathers James Harkess's Death certificate and he was drowned along with son, Peter about 15yo, as part of the crew of "James and Robert"on 14th October 1892 in the Firth of Forth about 5 miles of Gullane Ness. He was 41 and married to Margaret Donaldson, who had 8 children, one being your grandfather John Donaldson Harkess.
Tom
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Re James M Harkess. In the sixties I was upstairs on a bus with my dad and when it reached Argyll St. in Glasgow, he leaned across me and started to swear at a man who was walking along the street. It was the man who had lit the cigarette down the pit all those years ago in 1929. My dad was a quiet gentle person and that was the first time I had ever heard him swear.
As a result of that explosion he lost a job that he had been accepted for as an assistant golf professional because he spent a year in bandages because of his injuries.
About 1993 I took my class of primary seven on a trip to Lady Jane Grey mining Museum and my dad accompanied me. One of the miners was showing different types of lamps to the children and my dad started to laugh. The man asked him if he had used the carbide lamp and he said yes in Preston Links Pit. He also told him that he had been in the explosion. That word spread round all the retired miners who were working there and before we left to come home every one of them had come to speak to him.
JDH
JDH
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Hi John,
Would that be the Lady Victoria in Newtongrange, I have been to that as well. With your dad working in PrestonLinks, you will know there were 24 inch high seam before they got through t the Coal Face, there is not the money available to get me through them.
They eventually had to bring in searching them before they went down the shaft. When I was about 4 Dad took me to pit on a Friday to get his wages, ended up in canteen, with a mug of tea and a big Kit-Kat. Superb.
Did you google "10 West Seaside, Prestonpans" where your Grandad was born, right on Firth of Forth about 250 yards from pit, great views.
I moved to East Kilbride about 16 years ago, and still miss Cockenzie & Port Seton and Prestonpans.
Tom
I know the CISWO organisation ran the Royal Musselburgh Golf Club, did your father play there?
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No dad did not play there to my knowledge but My uncle was head green-keeper there for many years and another Harkess was Captain at Kilspindie. My dad worked as a green-keeper for a period of time at Pollock Golf Club where his uncle was the head green-keeper and professional just after the war.
That was the Lady Victoria Pit in Newtongrange. Not like me to get muddled with history.
JDH
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I don't know how dad got into golf but he did teach me a lot and I played off 5 for nearly 30 years. He must have been good to have been accepted for a job as an assistant pro. He had not played golf for quite a while when I was given some old hickory shafted clubs by a neighbour. He saw me and the neighbour's son mucking about with these in the park near to our house in Baillieston when he was coming home from work. He said to us to come and get our dinner and I come down with you later. That was how I started. He taught me how to play and I got the bug which has never left me. I was about 8 or 9 at that time and I'm now 64. I was Captain of Drumpellier Golf Club in Coatbridge in 2001-2. I live 300 yards from the clubhouse and 150 yards from the 10th tee.
JDH
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Hi John,
Thats good I know where Drumpelier GC is, my son was a youth signing with Albion Rovers but he never made it, but spent hours taking him to games. 300 yards is far enough from the clubhouse, especially with 1 forward and 2 back.
I spend hours on genealogy, sometimes my own but other times trying to point others in the right direction. I used to play bowls but gave up when needing heart surgery,got triple bypass in Western Infirmary, Glasgow in 2004. Still manage to local pub on a Friday for a wee drink or ten.
Tom
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I take it that you are also retired Tom?
I taught for 38 years, 32 in primary and my last 6 in secondary teaching 1st and 2nd year and also in the feeder primary schools to that secondary school. I now do the odd lecture for different groups, probus clubs and women's guilds.
JDH
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Hi John.
I have replied using the PM system. Look at my name, there should be a green icon nearby, click on the icon, it keeps things away from the main body.
Tom
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Hi all, dad and Tom, this doesn't display too well on the iPhone! tom I now live in EK too! Small world.... LAH (Lucy Alice Harkess) Alice after my mums mum. My sister is Jacqueline Elizabeth Harkess after granny Harkess and my brother John James Harkess after my dads dad. Or grandpa Pop as we called him! L x
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Harkess Family Info. Hi John and family, Lucy, Jacqueline and John.
I did basic research on my wife`s family years ago and only now have time to expand it, and found your posts on RootsChat.
Don`t know if you are aware that you have direct Harkess relations living in the North of Scotland.
I met Grandpa Pop in 1985 when he attended his sister`s funeral in Aviemore. Agnes Smillie Harkess b.1911 10 West Seaside place, P/pans.
John you have four cousins still living, and all with expanding families. I only got into genealogy in 1997 when Agnes`s husband Johnnie Duncan died, and I was saddened to find that your Dad had passed two years earlier. I did also find yourself and Alison but not the children. So I`m delighted to have found these postings, albeit almost three years old.
I am working on and still expanding the Harkess line back to John Hercuss b, early 1700`s m= Janet Goodale, along with associated families. Also have lots of info and still expanding the Donaldson, Barber, Ross, McClelland, Smillie-Smellie, Drysdale families.
Would like to make contact. Will do the obligatory 3 postings to enable the Chat line.
BillH.
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Willing to assist with info on Harkess family line. BillH.
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Anyone have proof on John Hercuss b.2 aug 1713 Aberlady? or his parents etc. BillH.