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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Dorset => Topic started by: agcstoat on Tuesday 22 January 08 08:59 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I have been collating my part of the Strange family tree for some time, and I am trying to find out if there is any significance to my great-great-great grandfather's middle name - it may have been spelled as above, or possibly 'Sagittrey' or 'Sagittery'.
This branch of the family lived in Hazelbury Bryan (but originated from Stoke Wake), and Joseph S. was born there (I believe at Droop Farm) in 1828.
Joseph S. also had a younger brother whose middle name was Solomon, but I can't determine whether these were typically Biblical names or whether they had a deeper meaning. Certainly their father (also Joseph) was a church warden and yeoman, so that may have a bearing.
I gather that there were several Sagittarys who were deacons for Dorset in the 18th century, so also wonder whether this might be relevant.
I'd appreciate any pointers (or even facts!) that the other members can offer.
Thanks,
Alan Charlton
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Hi Alan,
Have you had a look for the family on www.dorset-opc.com? A variety of data; baptisms, marriages, burials, census, trade directories etc. You might find a clue there.
Nanny Jan
Just had a quick look at www.dorset-opc.com and there is the burial of a William Sagittary Davis, aged 24 of Vicarage House, Cerne Abbas, on 19 Dec 1821 at Cerne Abbas. (Bishop's Transcript)
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Hi and welcome to rootschat!
Are you in touch with Mike Strange from Biggleswade, I came upon his site when googling the Sagittary name, he may be able to help if you haven't been in touch before.
Also "Sagittary" seems to mean Centaur/Saggitarius (Wikipedia, online dictionaries) :-\
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Hi and welcome to rootschat!
Are you in touch with Mike Strange from Biggleswade, I came upon his site when googling the Sagittary name, he may be able to help if you haven't been in touch before.
Also "Sagittary" seems to mean Centaur/Saggitarius (Wikipedia, online dictionaries) :-\
Thanks for that. Yes, I have been in touch with Mike Strange, and have made contact with a second or third?) cousin through his web site.
Regards,
Alan
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As a descendant of Joseph Sagittary (or Sagittery) Strange (my g/grandfather, b. Dorset 1828), I respectfully submit a long-winded exploration of his unusual middle name:
The earliest record of the term ’Sagittary’ appears in Shakespeare’s Othello, where the name is much debated by scholars but arguably refers to a street in Venice known as the vicus Sagittarius where arrows were made, and which was associated with the Venetian fleet. Shakespeare also quotes ‘The dreadful Sagittary’ in Troilus and Cressida, with apparent reference to storms at sea from November to December under the zodiacal constellation of the Archer. (ref. Noemi Magri: ‘Othello’s house on the Sagittary’ in De Vere Society Newsletter, February 2010).
The scholarly conclusion is that Shakespeare‘s ‘Sagittary’ was an English rendering of the Latin Sagittarius, the English version also being used by Sir Isaac Newton in his ’Chronology’ (1727).
Coming now to personal names*, the earliest record I have is of one Jahannis or Jahans Sagittary, father of two daughters born in Stockholm, Sweden, 1678 and 1680. The surname is clearly English, possibly adopted by a marine navigator familiar with the stars and constellations.
Back in England:
1713: Frances, d. of Daniel Sagittary & Ann, chr. Winterbourne Steepleton, Dorset.
1722: John Sagittary m. Repentance Burge, Marnhull, Dorset. (John Sagittary, b. 1697, buried St Mary le Strand Middx. 1777).
1736: Frances Sagittary (1713, above) m. William Champ, Winterbourne Steepleton.
1737: William Daniel, s. of William Champ & Frances, chr. Whitchurch Canonicorum, Dorset.
1767: Elizabeth, d. of William Champ Jr & Ann, chr. Winterbourne Steepleton.
1769: Sagittary, s. of William Champ Jr & Ann, chr. Winterbourne Steepleton. (Sagittary Champ buried Milton Abbas, Dorset 1830, age 60; no marriage record. 1836: son? Sagittary Champ m. Jannet Taylor, Southwark).
1774: Joseph Sagittary Champ, s. of William Daniel Champ & Margaret (née Paul), b. Whitchurch Canonicorum (chr. 1777).
1797: Elizabeth Champ (1767, above), m. John Davis, Milton Abbas.
1797: William Sagittary Davis, s. of John Davis & Elizabeth, chr. Dewlish, Dorset.
1826: Sagittary Biles, s. of Charles Biles & Anne, chr. Milborne St Andrew. Dorset.
1828: Robert Biles, s. of John Biles & Elizabeth, m. Anne Strange, Milborne St Andrew. (Ann, sister of Joseph Strange?).
1828: Joseph (Sagittery) Strange, s. of Joseph Strange & Mary (née Drake), chr. Hazelbury Bryan, Dorset, 17 Oct.
*All family sources: familysearch.org and opcdorset.org
In summary, the possibly unique ‘Sagittary’ surname became a forename as it passed through the Dorset familes of Sagittary, Champ, Davis, Biles and Strange. For my ancestor Joseph Strange the additional name ‘Sagittery’ (as spelt in his Probate record) was apparently an afterthought, given some time after his christening in 1828.
I would happy to share information or compare notes on the paternal ancestors of Joseph Sagittery Strange; please PM if you’re interested.
Mike North
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Welcome to Rootschat, Mike :)
How fascinating - I had never heard of this name before.
A search on the National Archives catalogue throws up some early instances that you haven’t already listed, which may be of interest:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Sagittary
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More here on the very early Sagittary family of Blandford Forum, apparently starting with Frederick Sagittary who was a wealthy and well-connected refugee from Germany’s Thirty Years War in the early 17th century:
http://www.dorsetlife.co.uk/2016/02/stories-from-an-old-house/
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Many thanks avm228 - that's brilliant! Can't wait to work your info into the story...
Kind regards,
Mike
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You’re welcome :)
It looks as though the court of Frederick “the Winter King” was overthrown and went into exile in the early 1620s, so that may give an indication of when refugees from his circle might have arrived in England:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_V_of_the_Palatinate
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Coming now to personal names*, the earliest record I have is of one Jahannis or Jahans Sagittary, father of two daughters born in Stockholm, Sweden, 1678 and 1680.
Hi Mike
I took a look at the originals from the Swedish Books as you mentioned that you got the records from FamilySearch:
1678 - bottom left:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lrv/
1680 - half way down right side:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lrw/
His christian name was either Johan or Johannes.
The name Sagittarÿ has the old German "y" with an umlaut. This is not the Swedish spelling.
Ian
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Many thanks Ian - nothing as good as the original docs! I'm currently ploughing through additional information which may account for his presence in Sweden.
KInd regards, Mike
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Cheers Mike
If you want help with the Swedish Church Books then just let me know and I'll see what I can do.
Ian
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Eureka! - The following extract from research found today on the Internet (link below):
Frederick Sagittary Born in Heregord, Germany
Frederick Sagittary's original name was SCHUTZE (pronounced as "Shoot-zer" . Schutze in German means "archer". When he came to England, it is interesting to note that he changed the family name to Sagittary which is the astrological name Sagittarius, whose sign is represented by an archer. Could this have been the influence of his astrologer brother-in-law, Francis Anthony Olevian?
Frederick Sagittary held the post of Treasurer to Frederick V, who was the Paslgrave Elector and Palatine of the Rhine. Sagittary would seem to have been an important man and held a high position. With the exile of Frederick V to Holland, Frederick Sagittary and his family had to leave Germany and as Protestant Refugees they came and settled in England.
What exactly Frederick Sagittary did when he came to England was not recorded, but he had enough money by 1635 to build his family a house. This was the "Old House" built in the Close at Blandford. Perhaps this is where Francis Olevian died. Burial dates for Frederick Sagittary and his wife Elizabeth could not be found.
Frederick Sagittary and his wife had at least one son, Joachim Frederick Sagittary who was born in Neumarket, Germany in 1616.
See the full story, including the Sagittary Coat of Arms with Archer (1627):
http://www.tibblestone.com/familytrees/casper_olevian/casper_olevian.htm
Mike