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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Monaghan => Topic started by: weesue on Thursday 24 January 08 23:34 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace my ggg grandparents who I believe came from Ballybay in Co Monaghan...
My G Grandfather Robert John Gilliland and his wife Maggie Conly eloped to Glasgow in 1898 to marry and settle in Glasgow. Robert's Father was George Earnest Gilliland who married Jane Turbitt around 1874.
Maggie's parents were James Conly and Eliza Cook.
George Earnest's parents I think were John Gilliland and Margaret Maxwell. I do not know too much except that they may have moved over to Ireland from Scotland as Plantation settlers?
Can anyone help please?
Thanks
Susan C
Also my GG Grandfather on my paternal side of my family, James Casey 1831, came from Co Monaghan his parents were Patrick Casey c1805 who married an Agnes Boyle c1805.
Can anyone tell me how to start a search for them?
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You should start by searching on LDS site in case there are any extracted birth records, etc. on the families. To find possible children do a parent search (entering only father's first and last names and mothers first name or first and last (maiden) name).
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hi Sue, i was born and raised in Ballybay and i would like to let you know there are still Gillilands living there to day. I am attaching a family tree of my great Grandparents Alexander Wlliamson and Jane Marshall hope you find it interesting as we intermarried with the Gillilands the only thing i can remember my grandmother telling me about them was there was a number of twins in the family. Sorry I was unable to attach the file I can try to change it to a giff file or you can send me an email to (*)
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birth.JOHN ROBERT GILLILAND 19-2-1875. CASTLESHANE, MONAGHAN,IRE.
parents. GEORGE GILLILAND & JANE TURBETH.
births. HENRY 4-1-1868. MARGARET 18-1-1872. BOTH BORN CASTLESHANE, MONAGHAN,IRE.
parents. JAMES CONNOLLY & ELIZA COOK.
marriage. JAMES CONNLEY TO ELIZABETH COOK. 5-12-1853. BALLIBAY, MONAGHAN, IRE.
regards mary.
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I have a Margaret Gilliland who married William Frazer;. I don't know where they married but they had 6 (I think) childred at least 5 of whom were born on Monaghan.
One of them, Elizabeth/Lizzie Frazer married Oliver Neely in Co. Londonderry in 1880.
If you have any information about this Margaret Gilliland or indeed, William Frazer then I'd be delighted to hear from you.
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marriage. WM FRAZER TO MARGARET GILLELAND 12-9-1854. TULLYCORBET, MONAGHAN,IRE.
FATHERS. HANS FRAZER & DAVID GILLELAND.
looks like margaret & wm. had twins & triplets.
births. JANE 13-6-1864. HANS 13-6-1864. MALE 7-4-1866. ROBERT 7-4-1866. MARY 7-4-1866. all born monaghan.
PARENTS. WM. FRAZER & MARGARET GILLELAND.
regards mary.
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Mary,
thanks ever so much, where did you find them?
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We are related! My Great Grandfather was Joseph Gilliland and George was his brother!
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I might have a connection here too. But I appreciate that Gilliland is an established name in the area.
My great-great-grandmother was Ann Gilliland who married George Woods on 13 March 1873 at Loughmourne Parish Church. Ann was 20 years old and lived at Aghmakerr, Parish of Aughnamullen. Her father was Joseph Gilliland, farmer. Her mother was Jane Gilliland, nee Nelson.
Joseph Gilliland died on 13 May 1887 at Aghmakerr, a farmer and widower aged 72 years. The death was registered by his daughter-in-law Lizzie Gilliland.
Lizzie Gilliland (under the name Elizabeth) is on the 1901 and 1911 census living with her husband, Joseph Gilliland, farmer at Ullinagh, Carrickatee. In 1901, Joseph was 46 years old; while in 1911 he was 59 years old. Their children include Andrew J Gilliland, Robena Gilliland, Agnes Gilliland, William Gilliland, Ricky Gilliland, Martin Gilliland and Eva Gilliland. In 1911, the family had a visitor: Thomas Turbitt, law clerk, aged 17 years.
Meanwhile, the 1901 census for Aghmakerr lists Sarah J Gilliland (aged 43 years), widow, and her niece Lizzie Wylie (aged 13 years). In 1911, the census had Sarah Jane Gilliland (aged 59 years), widow, with her niece Elizabeth Chambers (aged 22 years) and husband Henry Chambers (aged 29 years) plus their children.
In 1901, my great-great-grandmother Anne Woods nee Gilliland was in Glasgow with her children. The census shows the family had a visitor: Robert Gilliland, aged 21 years, police constable, born Ireland.
I expect that these Gilliland lines connect somewhere.
David
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The family of George Ernest Gilliland mentioned at the start of this topic is certainly connected to my family mentioned above. I have got copies of some certificates that help to piece some of this together.
George Gilliland (ie no middle name of Ernest) married Jane Turbitt on 10 February 1874 at 2nd Clontibret Presbyterian Church. George Gilliland was a bachelor of full age, blacksmith, residing at Castleshane, and son of John Gilliland, farmer. Jane Turbitt was a spinster of full age, residing at Clonlummen, and daughter of Robert Turbitt, farmer. The witnesses were John Turbitt and Sarah Graham.
Jane Turbitt was the sister of David Turbitt who married Mary Jane Wylie on 22 January 1880 at 2nd Ballybay Presbyterian Church. David Turbitt was a bachelor of full age, teacher, residing at Comanan, and son of Robert Turbitt, farmer. Mary Jane Wylie was a spinster of full age, residing at Dummerish (?), and daughter of James Wylie, farmer. The witnesses were Robert W Clarke and Thomas Wylie.
David Turbitt and Mary Jane Wylie were the parents of Thomas Turbitt who was born on 7 October 1893 at Urcher, District of Kilmore. David Turbitt was a National School Teacher. In the 1911 census, Thomas Turbitt aged 21 years was a Law Clerk General and visitor to the household of Joseph & Lizzie Gilliland (see below) at Ullinagh.
My great-great-grandmother Ann Gilliland married George Woods on 13 March 1873 at Loughmourne Presbyterian Church. George Woods was a bachelor of full age, farmer, residing at Pottle, and son of Charles Woods, farmer. Ann Gilliland was a spinster, aged 20 years, residing at Annakerr, and daughter of Joseph Gilliland, farmer. The witnesses were James G Mahood & Susanna Phillips.
Susanna Phillips married John Dunlop Burgess on 17 November 1876 at Loughmourne Presbyterian Church. John Dunlop Burgess was a bachelor of full age, farmer, residing at Lattycrum, and son of Robert Burgess, farmer. Susanna Phillips was a spinster and minor, residing at Aughakist, and daughter of Andrew Phillips, farmer. The witnesses were David McCullagh and Isabella Gilliland.
Ann Gilliland's brother Joseph Gilliland married Susanna Phillips's sister Elizabeth Phillips on 26 January 1875 at Crieve. Joseph Gilliland was a bachelor of full age, farmer, residing at Ullinagh, and son of Joseph Gilliland, farmer. Elizabeth Phillips was a spinster of full age, residing at Aunakaia (?), and daughter of Andrew Phillips, farmer. The witnesses were John Wiley and Susanna Phillips.
Ann Gilliland's brother Isaac Gilliland married Sarah Jane Oliver on 13 February 1883 at Corvalley. Isaac Gilliland was a bachelor of full age, farmer, residing at Arnikane, son of Joseph Gilliland, farmer. Sarah Jane Oliver was a spinster of full age, residing at Shancho, and daughter of Robert Oliver, farmer. The witnesses were William Phillips and Margaret Oliver. In the 1901 and 1911 census, Sarah Jane Gilliland, widow, is at Aghmakerr with her niece Lizzie Wylie (1901 census), later Elizabeth Chambers (1911 - after Elizabeth's marriage to Henry Chambers in 1906).
Sarah Jane Oliver's sister Margaret Oliver married Thomas Wylie on 11 March 1885 at Corvalley. Thomas Wylie was a bachelor of full age, farmer, residing at Lattycrum, and son of David Wylie, farmer. Margaret Oliver was a spinster of full age, residing at Shanco, and daughter of Robert Oliver, farmer. The witnesses were Joseph McCullagh and Bella Oliver. (Surely, Thomas Wylie must be related to Mary Jane Wylie who married David Turbitt. A Thomas Wylie was a witness at that wedding. And also a John Wylie was a witness at the wedding of Joseph Glliland and Elizabeth Phillips.)
As an aside, I have obtained the birth certificate for Emily Gilliland who was the sister of Ann Gilliland, Joseph Gilliland and Isaac Gilliland (maybe another sibling was Isabella Gilliland who was a witness at the wedding of Susanna Phillips and John Dunlop Burgess). Emily Gilliland was born on 13 August 1864 at Lattonfasky, daughter of Joseph Gilliland, farmer, residing at Lattonfasky, and Anne Gilliland formerly Nelson. The birth was registered by Anne Gilliland, mother.
The information on the birth certificate for Emily Woods has helped me identify the death certificate of Joseph Gilliland's mother (ie grandmother to Ann, Joseph and Isaac Gilliland). Jane Gilliland died on 26 December 1867 at Anniker. Jane was 86 years old and a farmer's widow. Cause of death was senile decay for one day. The death was registered by Joseph Gilliland, residing at Lalonfasky [stet].
I already have the death certificate for Joseph Gilliland (father to Ann, Joseph and Isaac Gilliland). Joseph Gilliland died on 13 May 1887 at Aghmakerr. Joseph was 72 years old and a widower. Cause of death was vascular disease of the heart and asthenia for 2 months. The death was registered by Lizzie Gilliland, daughter-in-law, residing at Ullinagh.
I hope all this information helps someone. I have some other certificates and bits and pieces for Gillilands that I can't yet slot into place. Happy to share the information that I have.
David
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As an addition to my post above, I have now got the birth certificate for:
David Turbitt
born: 2 March 1890 at Urcher
father: David Turbitt, National School Teacher, or Urcher
mother: Mary Jane Turbitt, formerly Wylie
In my post above, I mention David Turbitt's parents, as well as his brother Thomas Turbitt, and his aunt Jane Turbitt who married George Gilliland.
David Turbitt is one of 5 men listed on the war memorial for Cahans Presbyterian Church. He was killed on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, ie 1 July 1916, and is listed on the Thiepval memorial for the missing. Two of the other 5 men on the war memorial for Cahans Presbyterian Church died the same day. As an aside, another man listed on the war memorial is Major David Nelson VC who was killed on 8 April 1918, after winning the VC in September 1914.
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I think that Andy maybe having problems getting his email notifications David, hopefully this one should go...
Regards
Sarah :)
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http://search.freefind.com/find.html?oq=Conly&id=13812782&pageid=r&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%B7&scs=1&s=monaghanstones&query=gilliland&Find=Search&mode=ALL&search=all
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?oq=gilliland&id=13812782&pageid=r&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%B7&scs=1&s=monaghanstones&query=conly&Find=Search&mode=ALL&search=all
might be of use??
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Hi Guys
I must have been getting problems getting my emails and had no idea that all these responses were here... Wow, I am so grateful and can see that there are connections... This is amazing... so much information too... I was on here a few weeks ago (haven't been doing my family tree for ages), as I had a contact strangely from someone else and this has made me look around... I have written pm's to some of you... Thank you so much for taking the time and sorry that is is sooooooo Long since I've seen this... :)
Kindest Regards to all
Susan C
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For easy reference, I thought that it might be useful to record some of the census information here. (I have quite a bit more than this, but these are the immediately relevant extracts.)
Here are the census records for George Gilliland and his wife Jane Turbitt (mentioned above, and at the very start of this thread)
Drumar, Ballybay Rural - 1901 census
George Gilliland, Head, Presbyterian, 50 years, Farmer & Blacksmith, Married, born Monaghan
Jane Gilliland, Wife, Presbyterian, 54 years, [No occupation], Married, born Monaghan
Ernest Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 18 years, Blacksmith, Not married, born Monaghan
Maggie Gilliland, Daughter, Presbyterian, 13 years, Scholar, Not married, born Monaghan
Florrie Gilliland, Daughter, Presbyterian, 10 years, Scholar, Not married, born Monaghan
Drumar, Ballybay Rural - 1911 census
George Gilliland, Head, Presbyterian, 65 years, Farmer, Married for 37 years, born Monaghan
Jane Gilliland, Wife, Presbyterian, 66 years, [No occupation], Married for 37 years, 8 children born alive & 5 still living, born Monaghan
Ernest Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 28 years, Sgt Farrier NIH, Single, born Monaghan (* see note below)
Maggie Gilliland, Daughter, Presbyterian, 23 years, [No occupation], born Monaghan
Florrie Gilliland, Daughter, Presbyterian, 19 years, [No occupation], born Monaghan
Ernest Gilliland, Grandson, Presbyterian, 9 years, Scholar, born Scotland.
(* Ernest Gilliland - I have a copy of the book "At the Ford of the Birches, The History of Ballybay, its People & Vicinity" by James H Murnane & Paedar Murnane. The book includes a small blurred photograph of Ernest Gilliland leading an Orange Parade in Ballybay. The book mentions that the Orange Lodge had supported a pipe band since the early 1920s and lists Richie Gilliland and Ernie Gilliland as banner bearers. The book also lists Ernest Gilliland from Corfad as being a Sergeant Major in the NIH during the First World War.)
Census record for Joseph Gilliland and his wife Elizabeth Phillips (mentioned above) with the nephew of Jane Gilliland (nee Turbitt):
Ullinagh, Carrickatee - 1911 census
Joseph Gilliland, Head, Presbyterian, 59 years, Farmer, Married, born Monaghan
Lizzie Gilliland, Wife, Presbyterian, 61 years, [No occupation], Married for 36 years, 9 children born and 9 still alive, born Monaghan
William Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 21 years, Farmer's son, Single, born Monaghan
Agnes Gilliland, Daughter, Presbyterian, 23 years, Farmer's daughter, Single, born Monaghan
Ritchie Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 19 years, Farmer's son, Single, born Monaghan
Martin Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 13 years, Scholar, Single, born Monaghan
Eva Gilliland, Daughter, Presbyterian, 7 years, Scholar, Single, born Monaghan
Betty Reilly, Lodger, Roman Catholic, 81 years, Widow, born Monaghan
Thomas Turbitt, Visitor, Presbyterian, 17 years, Law Clerk General, Single, born Monghan.
As yet, I do not know who was the common ancestor to George Gilliland (husband of Jane Turbitt) and Joseph Gilliland (husband of Elizabeth Phillips). As noted already, Susan (who started this thread) believes that George Gilliland's parents were John Gilliland and Margaret Maxwell. Meanwhile, I know that Joseph Gilliland's parents were Joseph Gilliland and Ann Nelson. But, undoubtedly, these families are closely related.
As mentioned before, Joseph Gilliland (husband of Elizabeth Phillips) was the brother of my great-great-grandmother Ann Gilliland who married George Woods. By the time of the 1901 census, this Ann Gilliland (now Woods) was in Glasgow, with her son Thomas Woods listed as Head. But the census return also records a Gilliland visitor:
40 Kent Street, Glasgow - 1901 census
Thomas Woods, Head, Single, 26 years, Police Constable, born Ireland
Anne Woods, Mother, Married, 47 years, Housekeeper, born Ireland
Letitia Woods, Sister, Single, 26 years, Assistant Housekeeper, born Ireland
Robert Woods, Brother, Single, 22 years, Mason's Labourer, born Ireland
George Woods, Brother, Single, 17 years, Cabinet Maker, born Ireland
Joseph Woods, Brother, Single, 15 years, Message Boy (General), born Ireland
William Woods, Brother, Single, 13 years, Scholar, born Ireland
Isaac Woods, Brother, 5 years, [No occupation], born Ireland
Robert Gilliland, Visitor, Single, 21 years, Police Constable, born Ireland.
So far, I have been unable to identify this Robert Gilliland. I do not know who were this Robert's parents or what became of him.
As another side note, I have started a topic on this Monaghan forum about the family of Major David Nelson VC. Some of the same families which are connected to the Gillilands are mentioned in that post too.
Hope all this is of interest and helps join up our missing links.
David
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Thanks so much david still trying to get more info
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Hi David
This is fantastic, thank you so much for sharing. I believe (with little evidence) that Joseph Gilliland was my Great Grandfather (my Father William was the son of Ritchy Gilliland) and I have heard the family legend about how Joseph came by the farm at Ullinagh and earned his nickname 'Wild Joe'. I am in regular contact with a whole host of Ritchy's descendants, still living in Ballybay!
As you may have guessed, I am a complete novice at family research - perhaps it would have been easier to start with my Mother's family!!
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Andy
If your grandfather was Ritchy Gilliland (in the census above from Ullinagh, and mentioned in "At the Ford of the Birches"), it seems pretty certain that you're the great-grandson of Joseph Gilliland.
Just to add to the information, here is the extract for that family from the 1901 census:
Ullinagh, Carrickatee, Castleyblayney
Joseph Gilliland, Head, Presbyterian, 46 years, Farmer, Married, born co Monaghan
Elizabeth Gilliland, Wife, Presbyterian, 47 years, [no occupation] Married, born co Monaghan
Andrew J Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 22 years, Farmer's son, Not married, born co Monaghan
Robena Gilliland, Daughter, Presbyterian, 16 years, Farmer's daughter, Not married, born co Monaghan
Agnes Gilliland, Daughter, Presbyterian, 14 years, Scholar, Not married, born co Monaghan
William Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 12 years, Scholar, Not married, born co Monaghan
Ricky Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 10 years, Scholar, Not married, born co Monaghan
Martin Gilliland, Son, Presbyterian, 4 years, Scholar, Not married, born co Monaghan.
I also have the death certificate for Joseph Gilliland's father, ie your great-great-grandfather (and my great-great-great-grandfather):
Joseph Gilliland
died 13 May 1887 at Aghmakerr
aged 72 years
widower
cause of death: vascual disease of heart and asthenia, 2 months
registered by Lizzie Gilliland (daughter-in-law) of Ullinagh who was in attendance during last illness.
(This was the Joseph Gilliland who married Ann Nelson, as mentioned above.)
And I have the death certificate for that Joseph Gilliland's mother, ie your great-great-great-grandmother (and my great-great-great-great-grandmother):
Jane Gilliland
died 26 December 1868 at Anniker
aged 86 years
Farmer's widow
cause of death: senile decay, 1 day, certified no medical attendant
registered by Joseph Gilliland, present at death, Lalonfasky.
(I have typed the spellings as written on the certificates.)
If you are willing to share, I would very much like to hear your family legend about the gaining of Ullinagh and the origins of the nickname "Wild Joe".
Best wishes
David
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Hi David
Many thanks for the information, it certainly ties in with the little I have at the moment, although I am heading over to Ballybay later in the year to do some digging (not literally, I hope) and to chat with some of the family still living at Corfad, Annaneese and Corceran. Chief amongst my targets is my Dad's brother, Martin Gilliland, who although now in his late 80s will be able to add some detail. Martin is the source of the 'wild Joe' story, as he had it from Richie, his father, some years ago. It seems that the young Joe Gilliland hailed from Carrick (?) and spent his early years building a reputation as a hard drinking, hard fighting, hard poaching, hard working labourer. Deciding one day seeking better fortune he was walking into Ballybay when he met an elderly widow who farmed alone at Ullinagh. She stopped him on the road and asked to where he was bound and when he told her that he was seeking work she offered him a labouring job at her farm. Upon her death, Joe inherited the farm, as she had no children still living. He had a reputation as a 'horse doctor', as skill which seemed to consist mainly of riding any troublesome patient until the poor best gave in and either lived or died! The 'Wild' epitaph springs either from his youth, his fondness for a pint and a punch ( usually in that order) or the manner in which he treated his horses! I have absolutely no verification for any of this - tales rend to grow taller over time, but there is probably a kernel of truth in there somewhere!
Of Richie's children, only Martin and George are still alive, although Lionel's son (Andrew) still farms both Corfad and Annaneese, inherited from the Eakins brothers (Richie's wife's family - she was the only surviving child of a very late marriage). However the offspring of all of Richie's 12 children are scattered all over the globe, with a few still farming in Co Mobaghan.
I will keep you updated of anything I find in Church or family records when I get over there. This forum seems not to like posting email addresses, but I will make an attempt to do so in a separate post.
Andy
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Fabulous to hear I am related My great grandfather was George who married Jane Tullbitt. My great grandfather william Brown Married ada Gilliland its so confusing to me lol im trying to find out if there are any browns still alive related to William brown GG/ James david BrownG My dad was william james brownF All connected along the family tree,
good luck on your venture. Maz
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Andy
Many thanks for sharing the story. That sort of recollection makes genealogy so much more interesting than just a list of names and dates.
On the internet today, I came across an index of Death Notices and Obituaries from the newspaper The Northern Standard. Joseph Gilliland of Ullinagh is listed for the edition of 16 August 1913, page 124. I reckon this is Wild Joe. Unfortunately, all I have is the index and not the actual notice.
Hope you have a successful trip to Ballybay.
Regards
David
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...came across an index of Death Notices and Obituaries from the newspaper.... where??
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Hallmark
I actually came across it through a Google search on the surname and place, but here's the link:
http://www.monaghan.ie/en/services/library/newsarchive/
Try this too:
http://www.monaghan.ie/en/services/library/localhistory/indextoobituaries/
Hope that's helpful.
David
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Hallmark
I actually came across it through a Google search on the surname and place, but here's the link:
http://www.monaghan.ie/en/services/library/newsarchive/
Try this too:
http://www.monaghan.ie/en/services/library/localhistory/indextoobituaries/
Hope that's helpful.
David
Thanks, hadn't realized Cathriona had put them online!
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Thank you to all you guys for your stories and names of families...
Seems like we are all connected in some way... :D
I am still trying to digest it all and I can't believe you have found so many people...
I have printed out these comments and will try and fit them into some sort of tree... (ha ha ha)
I don't have any info to give you all back, just to thank you for what you are giving me...
But, we could all be distant cousins eh! lol... ;) I love it! :)
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On the Forum for Unwanted Certificates, I have just posted details from some Death Certificates and Marriage Certificates for Gillilands. These are certificates which I had ordered, but so far have been unable to tie into the family-tree.
The link to the Death Certificates is:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=744892.0
and the Marriage Certificates is just beside it.
In my post of 6 March 2016, I mentioned that a Robert Gilliland was listed on the census return with my Woods family in Glasgow in 1901. I think this Robert Gilliland could be:
Robert Gilliland
born 12 January 1881 at Ullinagh
Father: Joseph Gilliland
Mother: Elizabeth Phillips.
(Source: IGI / familysearch.org)
This Robert would be 20 years old in April 1901, whereas the census return states 21 years. However, this Robert was the nephew of my great-great-grandmother Anne Woods (nee Gilliland). Also, he does not feature with his parents and siblings on the 1901 census in Ireland. So I am pretty certain that this is the same Robert Gilliland.
David
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In my above post dated 6 March 2016, I have noted the census returns which list Ernest Gilliland, who was the son of George Gilliland and Jane Turbitt. In the 1911 census, Ernest Gilliland was 28 years old and described as "Sgt Farrier NIH". Also, I have noted that Ernest Gilliland appears in a photograph in the book "At the Ford of the Birches, The History of Ballybay, its People & Vicinity" by James H Murnane & Paedar Murnane.
I have just come across a book named "The North Irish Horse in the Great War" by Phillip Tardif, which was published last year. When recounting the Battle of Le Cateau in August 1914, the author quotes from a Private William Morton of Lurgan:
"When we came in contact with a patrol of the enemy we dismounted and, taking up position, opened a rapid fire. We succeeded in bringing down about fifty of them, and the remainder, who galloped round a wood, were finished by some infantry on our left. Immediately then, the German big guns and Maxims began to play on us, and again we had to retire through a village which was in flames."
Immediately after this quotation, the author states:
"It has been claimed that the first North Irish Horseman to account for an enemy fighter was Farrier Sergeant Ernest Gilliland, an event that most likely occurred during this action. Gilliland, a 31-year old from Drumar, County Monaghan, was a veteran of the regiment, having enlisted in March 1909."
Always good to add some real-life information to the names on our family-tree. And this is a really powerful account from the early days of the First World War.
David