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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: frenchdressing on Thursday 31 January 08 14:32 GMT (UK)
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I'd be grateful if someone who has access to the Canadian census transcripts could have a look for a William John Kerr.
He emigrated to Canada on the 08 /08/1894 sailing from Liverpool to Montreal on the ship Lake Ontario.
He seems to have been with his wife, Barbara, although I can't find a marriage for them in England.
William John was born in 1865 in Greenock, Renfrewshire, Scotland. No one has any info on them since they left England.
Also, his brother, James Kerr born 1871 in Birkenhead, Cheshire. He sailed from Liverpool on the 05/07/1906, destination, Montreal on the ship Victoria, supposedly to join his brother.
I know that he died in Ferney, British Columbia in 1936 but between those dates, no info.
Thanks a lot.
French
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Hi French,
If you go to www.automatedgenealogy.com you will find William and Barbara living in Toronto in the 1901 census.
Karen
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Birth Reg. for:
Jeanie Kerr
Date of Birth: January 9, 1901
Father: William Kerr
Mother: Barbara Carswell
County of York
Karen
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Marriage Registration for:
Jean Crawford Kerry
Spinster
Age: 23
Presbyterian
Residence when Married: 286 Bleeker (?) Ave., Belleville, Ontario
Place of birth: Toronto
Father: William Kerr, born Ayshire Scotland
Mother: Barbara Carswell
Henry George Green
Occupation: Butcher
Bachelor
Age: 29
Presbyterian
Residence when married: 173 James St., Belleville, Ontario
Place of Birth: Belleville, Ontario
Father: Charles Green, born Wiltshire, England
Mother: Margaret Beatrice Elliott
Witnesses: William Kerr & Margaret Green
Date of Marriage: April 17, 1923
Belleville, Ontario, County of Hastings
Reg. No. 012728
Karen
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On the 1911 census there is a James Kerr married to Jessie living in British Columbia. He lists his immigration year as 1904.
Karen
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I'm a bit confused if that is my James Kerr. I have his sailing date as the 05/07/1906. (It's the only one that fits with his age).
He was married in England but his wife left him and their three children. He left his children with his parents in law and went to Canada to join his brother, William John. If he did marry again he was a bigamist as I don't think he ever divorced (mind you, he was a long way from home)but I can find that out. He sent photos home but just of himself.
The story is that he and his brother fell out and he went to BC but no-one had any more news from William John...
French
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Well I wouldn't put to much on the immigration date on the census, cause it would be easy to be out a year or two :-\
He wouldn't be the first guy who did that, my gr grandfather was a bigamist as well :-X
Have you ordered the death certificate from BC?
Karen
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No, I haven't got a death cert. from BC. I never thought he could have married someone else although he was a handsome man in his prime, so to speak... Maybe that's why he never sent for his children.
Do you know how to go about getting one? This is my first encounter with immigration.
French
p. Is it cold over there?
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Perhaps that's what the falling out between the brothers was :-\
Well, today in my part of the country it's only -11, but in the prairies it was in the -40's yesterday :)
You can order the certificate on line......hang on must find the link
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I used to live in Calgary where we had about 3 weeks of -35°C. I was married there but now live in France. We only had our first snow last night but we won't get a couple of metres..
When I lived in Canada I wasn't interested in Family History or my research would have been easier. It looks as if William John stayed in Ontario, doesn't it?
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Karen, that isn't my William John Kerr.
I've found a marriage for a William Kerr to Barbara Carswell in Scotland in 1894 , but it isn't the right Kerr. That Kerr was aleady living in Ontario and hadn't the right father.
So, it's back to the drawing board.
Regards
French
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LOL, well that was too easy I guess ;D
Do you know what James and William's parents names are?
Karen
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Here's the link to order the death certificate for James in BC. You can download the certificate once you pay for it :)
http://search.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-49DCBBC/gbsearch/Deaths
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Their father was William Kerr born 1832 in Ireland and their mother was Mary Jane Currie born 1832, Ireland. The family moved up and down from Greenock , Scotland to Birkenhead, Cheshire before finally settling in Lancashire.
I have William John Kerr on the 1891 census living with his parents but he isn't on the 1901 census in England.
He would have sailed from Liverpool to Canada.
French
ps. Thanks for the link.
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Out of luck again. The death certs. and marriage certs. only start in 1872.
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I thought this was James' death.........
Vital Event Death Registration
Name: James Alexander Kerr
Event Date: 1936 12 29 (Yr/Mo/Day)
Age: 64
Gender: male
Event Place: Vancouver
Reg. Number: 1936-09-521454
B.C. Archives Microfilm Number: B13158
GSU Microfilm Number: 1953022
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Karen, that certainly looks a poossibility but I've never seen James Alexander written anywhere. I have a photo of James taken in BC outside a log cabin holdind deer horns and a letter explaining how they built the cabins. It's dated 1931 and he's written "aged 60 at this time".
What do you think?
French
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Karen, sorry to bother you again but is there a death in BC for a James Kerr in 1835?
French
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1836? Not sure if anyone was living in BC then ;D
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Here is the vital stats site for B.C....find the death that you think is his... ::)
http://search.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-1367597/gbsearch/Deaths
I'll look at the censuses later...teen off school and wants computer back...
...again...
J.J.
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I thought this rang a bell? The children of William Kerr & Mary Jane Currie...
from the IGI extracted files are usually semi reliable.... Are these not the correct dates?
Fanny KERR - b. May 23, 1856 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Sct.
Elenora KERR - b. May 21 1857 " " " "
William John KERR - b. Feb. 16 1865 " " " "
James KERR - b. Jan. 05 1867 " " " "
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I had a quick look at the BC Death Registrations. James Alexander Kerr, died 1936, was born in New Brunswick so we can strike him off the list of possibilities.
But there is another reg for James Kerr, died in Fernie in 1943. Unfortunately, the details on the registration are minimal. The informant was a female friend which perhaps explains the lack of information. Birthplace is England, date of birth 16 Jan 1871, married but wife's name not known, parent's names not known. He was a labourer. Lived in the municipality/province/Canada for 35 years.
I also found a death reg for a William John Kerr, died in Nakusp in 1953. Born in Glasgow on 16 Feb 1866, in municipality/province 37yrs and in Canada 44yrs. Wife's name was Sarah Davies and they had a daughter, Florence who acted as the informant. Parents names William Kerr, born Ireland, and Jean Crewe (??) born Scotland. Looks like Sarah Kerr died in Nakusp in 1960 but I don't see a marriage for them in BC.
Not sure if these are yours or not.....
Lynwen
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I have looked through the BC Vital Event indexes and found a death for James Kerr as you said, in Fernie, however, it was 29 Sept 1943. Deaths are released up to 1986 and there were no further Kerr deaths reported in Fernie. Fernie is in the Crow's Nest Pass and is an area where coal mining was the mainstay of the economy.
Name: James Kerr
Event Date: 1943 9 29 (Yr/Mo/Day)
Age: 72
Gender: male
Event Place: Fernie
Reg. Number: 1943-09-631484
B.C. Archives Microfilm Number: B13180
GSU Microfilm Number: 1953640
I have found a William John Kerr who died in Nakusp.
Name: William John Kerr
Event Date: 1953 12 28 (Yr/Mo/Day)
Age: 86
Gender: male
Event Place: Nakusp
Reg. Number: 1953-09-012740
B.C. Archives Microfilm Number: B13218
GSU Microfilm Number: 2032872
You will note that the age is not quite right but very close.
Buried in the Cemetery in Nakusp are three other people named Kerr. Sarah, died 1960, age 87, John, died 1929, aged 42, and Maggie for whom I am unable to find an age or date of death.
Nakusp is on the Arrow Lakes and is almost as remote as Fernie.
James Kerr is on the 1911 Census, reports being married but is one of 17 lodgers in a boarding house at Michel, near Fernie.
This site will show a little of the life in this region, though sadly the link to Fernie has been lost.
/members.tripod.com/~coalminersmemorial/
The only possible candidate for William I have found so far is another probable miner in Coleman, also in the Fernie region. The right age, reports being married, and also living as a lodger.
I can see no trace of Barbara.
Beth
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Thank you all so much for looking.
I think that Barabara as the wife of William John can be struck off as I'm now sure that the Kerr couple on the ship in 1894 were not my family. He must have sailed between 1892 and 1900 so I'll check the passenger lists again.
JJ that's the right family but the James born in 1867 died in infancy and the next James was born in 1871 in Cheshire, England.
As I said previously, I have a couple of old photos showing James in front of a log cabin holding deer antlers and scraps of a letter explaining how they built the cabins. The last photo was taken in 1831. I phoned his grandaughter in England last night and she said that he'd died in 1835, not 1836 but she's old now and her memory isn't so reliable. She also said that she'd always thought that William John had gone to Alberta, which is in the right direction.
I have a birth cert. for William John. He was born 16/02/1865 in Greenock, Scotland and James was born in March 1871. His English wife, who left him, was Margaret Ann Alldred.
How come that the BC site I look at states that deaths are from 1872 and you've found deaths before that? What am I doing wrong???
Thanks again for again for all your efforts.
French
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I think we are confused by the mixup in centuries. We are talking about individuals who were born in 1865 and 1871 and at least one who died in 1935, not 1836 as noted. The death registrations in BC began in 1872 and continue to the present day but the privacy act limits access to those more than twenty years old. So we should be able to find them if they died in BC within those dates.
Looking again at the record for William John, died in Nakusp. Could he not be your man? The birth date is exact except out by one year. The birth place of Glasgow is fairly all encompassing for that area of Scotland. And remember, the registrant relied on family members to provide the necessary information and they didn't always get it right.
But your William John's parents match up fairly closely with the WJ who died in Nakusp as does his birth date. The mother's name was difficult to read on the death reg but it very well could have been Jane Currie. It sounds like the only corroborating evidence as to the dates is someone's possibly faulty memory so I think we still have to include William of Nakusp as a possibility. I couldn't find any sign of Sarah Davies Kerr in the census to try and place them prior to their arrival in Nakusp. I'll go back to the library and check out her death certificate as that might provide more clues as to where we might search for them as a couple and that in turn, might lead to more info and allow us to confirm or discount WJ of Nakusp.
Now all I have to do is concentrate on work for 8 hours before doing what I really want to do - run off to the library and solve family mysteries!
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Now all I have to do is concentrate on work for 8 hours before doing what I really want to do - run off to the library and solve family mysteries!
Shame how a job has to get in the way of things :)
Karen
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I'm so sorry for the mix up in centuries. My brain was getting addled late last night (at least that's my excuse).
I quite agree that the William John Kerr in Naksup is quite possibly my man. When James grandaughter (who's 87) says he went to Alberta she could be confused as for someone who's never been to the west of Canada could easily get Alberta and BC mixed up. She's only going by heresay and I've found out a couple of times that the stories that were handed down had little to do with reality.
Maybe the 2 brothers went out west together and then fell out and separated.
Mary Jane Currie and William Kerr had a son William born in Glasgow in1859 but he died in infancy. Maybe William John thought that he was the one born in Glasgow???
I have found no trace of a marriage in the UK for a William John Kerr so he probably married in Canada.
I'm really grateful for the time you're spending on this. I hate thinking that there's a whole side of my family that have been forgotten.
French
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I'm getting quite excited about the 2 Kerrs.
William John was born on 16 Feb 1865 and the informant gave 16 Feb 1866. If the mother's name isn't clear I suppose Jean Crewe could have been Jane Currie.
James's birth is given as16 Jan 1871 and I had it down as March but looking at my notes it's the March qtr. I've just ordered the birth cert. and if he was born in January, that's our man.
His descendants have no death cert. so they could have got the year he died mixed up.
He never divorced his wife in England so he would still have been married legally but with no wife living with him hence the informant being a lady friend.
It's said that he had lived in Canada for 35 years which means that he left England about 1908. There's a James Kerr aged 35 who sailed from Liverpool in 1906.
The only little problem is the date William entered Canada. On the death reg. it says he had lived in Canada for 44 years which would mean him sailing in 1909. William isn't on the 1901 census in England and James's grandaughter is adament that William left England before James and James went to join him when his wife left him. I'll check the passenger lists again.
French
p.s. I've found a marriage for a William Kerr and Sarah Davies in 1893 in Leigh district which is where the Kerrs lived. I can't find a ship with both on. There's one in 1908 with a William Kerr and a Sarah Kerr but she's given as aged 6.
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The 1911 census entry for William confirms the story that William came to Alberta. Coleman and Fernie are quite close together but on either side of the provincial border.
Further confirmation that these may be the right family is the birth of a Florrie Kerr in the March Quarter of 1899 in the district of Leigh where you found the marriage.
Beth
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Thanks Beth
There's the Florrie Kerr you mention and on the Lancashire BMD, there's a Florrie Kerr born 1898 in Atherton which is the town the Kerrs lived in. I'm going to England in a weeks time so I'll go into the Records Office and check the parents.
I have 3 Kerrs sailing from Liverpool to Montreal in 1909. There's a Kerr Wm, adult, a Kerr Ds adult female and a Kerr female. That could be them as the year ties in with the length of time William is said to have lived in Canada when he died in 1953 (44 years). I still can't find them on the 1901 census in England though. I'll put a request on the Lancashire board.
It's strange that only 8 years after Sarah Kerr's death I should be living in Calgary not knowing that I had relatives who had emigrated to Canada and were buried not too far away.
Thanks again.
French
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The free version of 1901 Census has all three Kerrs, William, Sarah and Florrie living at Atherton in Lancashire.
William, 34, is a banksman at a colliery. Sarah, 28, was born in Wales.
An added bonus may be William, 69, born Greenock Scotland, Oiler and Greaser Cotton. Could this be William jr.'s father with incorrect birthplace?
Beth
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I checked Sarah Kerr's death registration and it confirms Beth's find in the 1901 Census. Sarah was born in Cefn, North Wales on 14 Jun 1872. Father was Thomas Davis, mother Mary Roberts, both born in North Wales. Sarah's son (I couldn't read the initial, but it could have been an A or a C or maybe even a fancy E) was the informant. The registration listed that she resided in the municipality for 10yrs and the province for 42 years but unfortunately, the time in Canada was blank. I suppose her son didn't know so I don't know how reliable the other times are. She died on 1 April 1960 of heart disease and was buried in the Nakusp Cemetery.
The library closes early on Friday so I didn't have time to find an internet station to check the indexes for their son. But looking now I do see a death reg for Allan Gamble Kerr in Nakusp in 1970, aged 57. The only other Kerr that died in Nakusp was a John, aged 42 in 1929, so born in 1887. Do you think they might be yours as well? Or worth taking a look?
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Great Work Lemon and Beth!!
Karen
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I echo Karen's praise. Lemon and Beth, you really are stars!!!!
I would imagine that the Allan Gamble Kerr who died in Nakusp in 1970 was the son of William and Sarah. He would have been born in 1913. If I'd have known about him I could have got in touch when I was in Alberta. I suppose that there must still be family living out there still...
Beth, I'm bothered though that I can't see the Kerrs on the 1901 census on Ancestry. I know that I'm getting older but not to the point that I'm blind... Could you give me the reference numbers so that I can look again. I've found James and their brother David, but not William.
There are many Cefn in Wales but they add another name on to distinguish them. There's one near Wrexham where David Kerr's wife came from. Will have a serious look for the family.
That's most likely William snr. living with William John in 1901. His wife, Mary Jane died in 1895 and he died in 1910. He'd done many hard physical jobs during his lifetime so greaser and oiler in a cotton mill at the end of his working life seems quite easy.
I shall be going to the Wigan Records office during my stay in Lancashire so I'll check the marriage to see if Sarah's father's name was Thomas Davies.
I haven't found a birth on the Lancs. BMD for a John Kerr born 1887 but it's easy to imagine that he was a relative. I don't suppose there were many Kerrs in Nakusp at that time. Could you check Lynwen before I go over to England in a weeks time so that if he was born in England I can check him out.
I've checked the notes I took when I met Jame's descendants and the only thing they remembered is that the brothers went out to Canada to pick fruit near Toronto in the early 1900s. Then James went to BC and William to Alberta.
James never came back to England nor sent for his children which seems very sad to me. I'll try and see them next week to bring them up to date.
Have a great weekend.
French
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Unfortunately, the free access to the 1901 census only gives Name, Age, Where born, Administrative County, Civil Parish and occupation. ( no reference numbers or street addresses)
By looking for an individual by name, one can then find others with the same surname by entering the surname with the place of residence. If there are several families with children with the same names it cam be less than helpful but there were only nine Kerrs living in Atherton and your family were quite recognizable!!
One can buy credits to view and download the original page of the census which would include the information you seek.
Beth
Beth
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Thanks Beth. I have a subscription to Ancestry so can view all the census transcriptions. I put in Kerr and residence Atherton but still didn't see a William Kerr.
I'll try again.
French
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Hi French, no worries, I'll check the remaining two death registrations today or tomorrow.
As usual the problem with the census search is Ancestry's appalling transcriptions. They are listed under "Kerre" on the ancestry search index. I don't have an account but I did a quick search with all known values except the last name and they came up as Beth mentioned. So search for William Kerre and you'll find them. I finally cancelled my subscription when I found that, according to Ancestry, one of my ancestors was not a kitchen helper as previously thought but rather a b-itchen helper :o
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I've finally found them. There's also a gd son on there,James kerr who was born 1894 in Atherton. Was he William and Sarah's son. If so, he should be with them in Canada as I haven't found a death for a james Kerr infant.
The other grandchild, Mary Jane Richards was the daughter of Ellen Kerr, William John's sister. I'll check that out next week.
Is brother James Kerr on the 1911 census in Canada?
Thanks Lynwen for taking the time to look for them.
I can understand your annoyance at a b-itchen helper. The family can say that but not Ancestry.
Another question, probably stupid for you. Where does one find the free census? My grandfather is missing from the 1891 census and no-one up to now has found them. Maybe it's another transcription fault on Ancestry? Mind you, with a name like John Jones...
French
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You can search the Canadian census records at www.automatedgenealogy.com. If you do find a match, first select the highlighted page record which will give you a table of all the entries on that census page. Then to view the actual census page, click on the "split view" link at the top of the page.
I think Beth might have been searching on the National Archives 1901 Census page. It is free to search but you have to pay to see the details. You could try other pay sites that allow you to search for free, findmypast for example, and if you find something, then go back to ancestry and search on alternate criteria to try and get around any transcription issues.
I'll see if I can find any mention of marriages or deaths in BC for a James Kerr.
Lynwen
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wow, well done!
cemetery inscriptions Wm & sarah
http://www.vdfhs.com/nakusp.htm
nakusp library
http://www.nakusplibrary.bc.ca/allnewbooks.htm
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I found James! He married Agnes Ferguson on 21 April 1928 at St Paul's United Church in Nelson, BC. The registration details list that he was 32yrs old, employed as a machinist and living in South Slocan. He was born in England, parents William J (born Scotland) and Sarah Davis (born Wales). He could read and write. His wife was 26yrs old and employed in the Confectionery business. She lived in Coleman, Alberta and was the daughter of John C Ferguson (born Scotland) and Agnes Bank (also born Scotland). She could also read and write.
Now the strange bit is that his name was recorded as James Kerr Jr which I thought was an error at first but then I noticed he also signed his name James Kerr Jr. He clearly gives his father's name as William so I am not sure what that is all about. I couldn't find any trace of James, Florrie or Sarah in the 1911 Census but I did a quick search on Ancestry and there is a WWI record for a James Kerr Jr with a Mrs Sarah Kerr listed in the record. I don't have a subscripton so I tried to check the National Archives....and the site is down again. :'(
If anyone has an Ancestry subscription, can you check the record? Otherwise we'll have to wait for the NA site to return to get a look at his Attestation papers.
Oh - and Allan Gamble Kerr is not related to this branch. Nor is the John Kerr who married Maggie Wallace in 1915 and died in 1929. I also checked for a death record for James and also for Agnes but couldn't find a thing.
We're getting there.....slowly but surely......
Lynwen
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If anyone has an Ancestry subscription, can you check the record? Otherwise we'll have to wait for the NA site to return to get a look at his Attestation papers.
Lynwen
Ancestry is hooked up right to the National Archives site, so unable to look at census or attestation papers today :(
Having said that on the index in Ancestry it says James Kerr Jr. born Nov. 26, 1894, Syldesley, Lancashire, Next of Kin: Mother, Mrs. Sarah Kerr
Karen
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Hmm, I didn't realize that Ancestry tapped into the Archives' images.
I think my b-itchen helper ancestor would call Ancestry and suggest that Syldesley, Lancashire is actually Tyldesley which just happens to be next door to Atherton. That has to be a good sign for the Kerr family search.
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The entries I found on this message were from the 1911 Canadian Census:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,282744.msg1662095.html#msg1662095
One brother was in Fernie, BC and the other in Coleman, Alberta.
I was unable to find Sarah and Florrie in 1911.
There was a death registration for James. He died at the age of 72 in Fernie
To find the free version of the 1901 UK Census you can Google and it comes up.
Beth
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There is this Sarah, Calgary, alone, but listed as married...a four older which isn't unusual, and a Florence also age is out...but there is a Helena on page as well....so probably not correct family, but will post anyway... as can't check the split view for details...
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=8959
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The Florence in Calgary in 1911 was born in 1902 so does not seem to be the same person as the Florrie in the 1901 UK census.
Beth
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I take my hat off to you all. I feel a real amateur compared to you.
There isn't a Helena Kerr born in Lancashire. Florrie Kerr was definately born in 1898 in Atherton. My Kerr family lived in the part of Atherton called Hindsford that touches Tyldesley (my home town of long ago).
On Scotland's People there's a birth of a John Cummings Ferguson in 1870 in St Clement, Dundee City and an Agnes Bank in 1875 also in St Clement Dundee.
Also another John Chalmers Ferguson born 1872 in Leith North Edinburgh City and an Agnes Bank born 1881, same place. I can't find a marriage though for a John Ferguson and Agnes Bank anywhere. They may have been married in a non-conformist church.
There isn't a birth for an Agnes Ferguson born abt. 1902 anywhere.
I'll check again when I can. I'm having to share a computer this weekend as my grandson is visiting and is glued to the keyboard.
James Kerr could have been known as James Kerr jnr. because he had the same name as his uncle who was still alive and living very close when they were still in England. Although putting jnr. is very much a North American thing.
James Kerr also had a son called James Wallace Kerr born 1896 who also served in WW1. That seems a lot of James Kerrs...
French
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From Free BMD James Kerr Born OND 1894 Leigh Vol 8c Page 357
Also on 1901 UK Census in Atherton with William J., Sarah, Florrie and William age 69.
Beth
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This is just for info.
Sarah Davies married William John Kerr in 1893.
She was baptised on the 15/11/1896, the same day as her two children, James, born 26/11/1894 and Jane, born 30/09/1896. (Lancashire Parish Clerk Project)
Her parents are given as Thomas Davies and Mary who were living in Tyldesley at the time.
Jane died a baby and is buried in the same grave as her grandparents William and Mary Jane Kerr in Atherton cemetery.
So, we've definately got the right William John and Sarah Kerr.
I'm sure that James Kerr who died in 1943 is the right one too. I phoned England today and the family have no death cert. The gt grandson has no idea how his mother got the year 1935 as the year of death. Maybe the last time they had news?
Memories are fragile things. My mother said that she was Welsh with a father born in Wrexham. After months of searching I found he was born in Wakefield, Yorkshire. Not exactly the same direction...
French
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In Case anyone is still reading this thread after all this time, Sarah Davies is an ancestor of mine.
Sarah was born in Ruabon Denbigh in Wales 1872 and her siblings were:
James Davies (My Great Grandfather) 1869 - 1948 (Spoke Welsh and English)
Christmas Davies 1860 (because parents Married on 25 Dec 1858)
Elizabeth Davies 1862
Mary Jane Davies 1864
Barbara Davies 1874
Sarah's Parents were
Thomas Davies 1836 - 1907
Mary Roberts 1834 - 1901
Sarahs' aunts and uncles (Davies) were:
John Davies 1827 - 1863 Killed in coal mine explosion Wynstay 9 Dec (details online)
Sarah Davies 1831
Robert Davies 1832
James Davies 1835
William Davies 1840
Eliza Davies 1841