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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Scott Thompson on Friday 08 February 08 11:41 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find any info on Emily Jane Wise born in Maidstone about 1838.
I have her showing on Census info but seem to lack her parents details. In 1841
she seems to have a 65 year old father and a 30 year old mother.
Can anyone give me some concrete proof?
Scott
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The problem with the 1841 is it doesnt show relationships - so you cant assume that 30+ year old Mary is William (65+) wife - or even daughter-in-law !
Found any baptisms ?
Found the family in 1851 ?
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In 1851, I see that she and a couple of siblings from the 1841 are 'in laws' to an Arthur Buck - who is married to a Mary Ann
HO107/1610; Folio: 218; Page: 27 - Rochester St Margaret
This actually means 'step' dau and sons - so Mary Wise (albeit her age is a couple of years out) has remarried this Mr Buck.
The oldest Buck child looks to have been born c1846 - so look for a Buck/Wise marriage before that, and then a male Wise death before that - should help in determining who Emily's father was - if Baptisms dont ....
:)
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ok heres Emily Jane in 1851
6 Morden st, Rochester
Arthur Buck , married,40 head, bootmaker, Rochester
Arthur Charles Buck 4 Mo son, Rochester
Eliza Ann Buck 35 , dau, unm, rochester although looks like shes really abt 20 ish
Mary Ann Buck 46 wife, chatham
Mary Ann Buck 5 Dau , scholar, rochester
Mary Susanna Haines 22 visitor, widow, 43, chatham
Eliza Sharp 24 visitor, unm, Dover
Elizabeth Wise 17 dau in law, unm , newington
Emily Jane Wise 13 dau in law, maidstone
John Wise 11 11, son in law, maidstone
sure ive read somewhere that they used to put dau/son in law if they were there step dau/son ?
HO107; Piece: 1610; Folio: 218; Page: 27
still doesnt help if emilys mum was the 30 yr old with the 65 year old husband , i would think he is possibly emilys grandfather
Jo
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MARY ANN WISE
ARTHUR BUCK
22 MAR 1846 Holy Trinity, Milton By Gravesend, Kent, England
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The oldest Buck child looks to have been born c1846 - so look for a Buck/Wise marriage before that, and then a male Wise death before that - should help in determining who Emily's father was - if Baptisms dont ....
spot-on so far Jo !
;)
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Mary Ann Buck
Christening: 11 OCT 1846 Saint Margaret, Rochester, Kent, England
Father: Arthur Buck Family
Mother: Mary Ann
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Eliza Ann Buck
Christening: 28 APR 1850 Saint Margaret, Rochester, Kent, England
Father: Arthur Buck Family
Mother: Mary Ann
now wondering if the 35 yr old that looked like 20 yr old on the census is actually this one
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very hard to read on the image, and enumerated between Mary Ann (5) and Arthur (10 months)..
No sign of a male Wise dying before the Buck / Wise marriage ?
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ok found this ,
Elizabeth Rebecca Wise
Christening: 18 MAY 1834 Newington-Next-Sittingbourne, , Kent, England
Ann Hannah Wise
Christening: 25 MAR 1832 Newington-Next-Sittingbourne, , Kent, England
Father: William Wise Family
Mother: Mary Ann Wise
Parents:
Father: William Wise Family
Mother: Mary Ann Wise
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So, find a death of a William Wise 1841 - 1845 and sorted, so it might be the 65 year old in 1841, or more likely his son, and he was the grandfather ....
or actually, Mary might have been a Widow already in 1841, so a bit earlier too would be wise .....
;)
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WISE William Dartford 5 72 Deaths Mar 1843
WISE William Newington 4 280 Deaths Dec 1843
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More likely ...
Deaths Dec 1838
WISE William Maidstone Vol 5 Page 196
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how when he was on the 1841 ?? ;D
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you're talking !!!!
I added an addendum - I think that the William on the 1841 was most likely the grandfather ...... and also none of the post 1841 deaths were in the right sort of area (Regn District wise)
either way its moot .... we dont know if there was a father and son from the census, so dont know if it was the William from the 1841 who died, or my imaginary son ....
whoever fathered the son John shown on the 1841 I guess - maybe Scott J should get the Birth Cert ...
whoops - total nonsense - he was 1 month old in 1841 :-[
but anyways, his or Emily's cert would settle it ....
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Births Sep 1838
Wise Emily Faversham Vol 5 Page 160
Wise Emily Maidstone Vol 5 Page 269
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i give up !! lol
sorry got lost in wise/bucks/ have so many widows open its causing a draft ! ;D
i see Emily Jane married in 1864 , so i think Scott might have to spend some pennies on this one now, that will tell him " whos tha daddy " ! :D
thers a birth entry for an Emily Wise, Maidstone, 5/269 3Q 1838
have to go now housework that should be done :-\
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snap ! :D
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The marriage of Emily Jane WISE to Edward Wilson HILL gives her father as William WISE veterinary surgeon 8)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02ou/
The baptisms for a couple of her siblings appear on the IGI http://www.familysearch.org at Newington (Ann Hannah 1832 & Elizabeth Rebecca 1834)
Casalguidi :)
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Thank you very much for that.
Scott ;)
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;D
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The marriage of Emily Jane WISE to Edward Wilson HILL gives her father as William WISE veterinary surgeon
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02ou/
wow where did that come from casalguidi !! well done ;)
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I thought this family sounded familiar - have you seen the others researching the same line ???
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,205017.0.html
where did that come from
Medway Cityark Jo - a brilliant resource for those with ancestors in the Medway area ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bl/
Casalguidi :)
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wow SCOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT where are you to look at that link, tis his family
well ill remba that link just incase i get any rellies from there myself one day ;D
ttfn
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intriguing !
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Facinating stuff. But I'm still none the WISEr. Is our geriatric vet the dad
or grandad?
We may never know. I wonder if he had had another family before this or was he one
of those who wanted to concentrate on his career first.
Scott :-\
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Is our geriatric vet the dad
or grandad?
I'm beginning to think that perhaps he is the dad - maybe even the age given in 1841 is wrong - who knows :o ;D
Looking at the baptisms of the children in Newington, their father was shown as a farrier - perhaps Emily Jane elaborated that to being a vetinary surgeon so there's still scope for a couple of scenarios ::)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,205017.0.html
Casalguidi :)
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I agree. A vet sounds grander than horse footcare specialist!
Scott ;)
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Hello again!
I have finally obtained the birth cert of Emily Jane Wise.
She was born August 17th 1838 at Union Street, East Maidstone, Kent. Her father was a cattle doctor named William Wise and her Mother was Mary Ann Dye.
So we have, Mary Ann Dye, born about 1811 (in Boxley, Kent) , marrying a vet named William Wise who is 30+ years her senior.
They have there first child Mary Susanna when Mary Ann is about 17 years old, followed by Henry, Ann Hannah, Elizabeth Rebecca, our Emily Jane, and John. Sadly William dies probably in Dec 1843 (seems likely as at least two of his children are born in Newington) and Mary Ann Wise becomes Mary Ann Buck in 1846 when she marries Arthur Buck, a man apparently 7 years her junior. They go on to have several more children. The only reasonable date for Mary Ann Bucks death is March 1887 Camberwell vol 1d page 575 aged 76.
Does this seem plausible or can anyone shoot holes in it?
Scott
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Hi Scott
It looks ok to me though you don't mention son William WISE bc1836/1837 (1841 census) - I wonder if this could be him ie. born Newington, Kent:
Possible ............
1861 vessel "Trafalgar"
Wm WISE private Royal Marines unm 22yrs 10m b.Newington Kent
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1881 - 2 Napier Road, Gillingham, Kent
William C WISE head mar 44 cowkeeper & milkman b.Newington Kent
Hannah wife 31 b.Ditton Kent
RG11/892 folio 55 page 4
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1891 - 46 Napier Road, Gillingham, Kent
William C WISE head mar 54 dairyman b.Newington Kent
Hannah wife 41 b.Ditton Kent
RG12/662 folio 10 page 1
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William Charles WISE married Hannah PLEDGE 1876 http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
In case you hadn't already found it, here is the marriage of Mary Ann WISE (widow) to Arthur BUCK at Holy Trinity, Milton nr Gravesend 22 March 1846
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03so/
Possibly some confusion in that her father is stated as William WISE, publican ::)
Could the mother's surname on Emily Jane's birth certificate read PYE rather than DYE? There is a marriage William WISE to Mary Ann PYE at Leeds nr Maidstone 1828 which would fit http://woodchurchancestry.org.uk/midkentmarriages/index.php
I suppose the 1887 Camberwell death could be her if you can't locate any other options - did she have family in that area?
Have you found any confirmation that William WISE was that much older from a source other than the 1841 census yet?
Casalguidi :)
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Well Casalguidi, you have stumped me!
Sorry about the omission of Emily's older sibling. He must have joined the marines at a young age (as they did).
As for her birth cert, it could easily be read as Pye and considering your find at Mid Kent Marriages it most likely is!
As to the confusion of Mary Ann's father on the Buck/Wise marriage cert... It could be that the William Wise on the 1841 Census was her father-in-law and perhaps thought of him as her father. She herself could have been a widow in 1841. Her husband, William Wise Jr (presumably) could have died shortly before the birth of his last child John Wise.
There are no connections, that I am aware, to Camberwell for her death. I have based it on proximity since the only other real option is the East End of London.
I have been unable to get any confirmation as to the age difference between William and Mary, so conjecture abound!
Scott :-\
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looking for parents of henry wise born 20/4/1823 erith kent married to eliza shorter 12/1/1845 he died 21/2/1869 result of an accident
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Hi, Mary Anne Dye (or is it Pye) and Arthur Buck were my g g grandparents. I’ve got a lot of them in my Ancestry tree and only discovered this thread when googling Morden St Rochester just now!
I have:
William Wise 1776-1843
Mary Anne Pye / Dye 1805-87
Arthur Buck 1818-85
I have 8 x Wise children and 6 x Buck
I need to read this thread properly as it may fill some gaps but feel free to let me know what you need
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Hello!! I am part of the Wise family, it seems! I did some late night searching and found my dads name on some obscure website, then seeing it led back to this!
It’s really cool!!! We go by Newington-Wise now, not just wise.