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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: stannarp on Friday 08 February 08 13:56 GMT (UK)
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Hi there all,
I posted this on the occupation board, but it was suggested that I might have more luck posting it on the Australian board, so here goes...!
Does anyone ... by any chance ... know of a directory of lawyers in Victoria, Australia for the 1880's and beyond?
I'm trying to trace an ancestor, John Henry Phillips, b 1853, possibly Illogan, Cornwall, England. If it is the person I think it might be (from the census records for that town), he practised as a lawyer in England, then emigrated to Australia...
So, I was wondering if there was some kind of society or listing, or registration process for lawyers in Victoria in those days...?
Regards,
Patricia
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Hi Patricia
I don't know if there is a listing lawyers, but he could be listed in Directories etc.
When did he come to Australia? Who are his parents?
Regards
Genni
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Hi Genni,
I'm not entirely sure when he came to Australia - but he married Ellen Eudey in 1885, her family lived in Victoria, THEY originally came from Cornwall, so it has been suggested that he might have come from Cornwall also - apparently the Cornish in Australia kept very much to themselves in those days...
I think he may have been in Victoria as early as 1877, as they appear to have a daughter born in that year - Mary Phillips (her birth name was registered as Phillips as far as I can tell)...
Not much to go on, I'm afraid!
Where could I find Directories from that time?
Regards,
Patricia
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Hi Genni,
I'm not entirely sure when he came to Australia - but he married Ellen Eudey in 1885, her family lived in Victoria, THEY originally came from Cornwall, so it has been suggested that he might have come from Cornwall also - apparently the Cornish in Australia kept very much to themselves in those days...
I think he may have been in Victoria as early as 1877, as they appear to have a daughter born in that year - Mary Phillips (her birth name was registered as Phillips as far as I can tell)...
Hi Patricia,
There is a birth registered in 1877 in Victoria Mary PHILLIPS - Mother: Mary Endey Father: John Henry
Another birth 1879 Catherine Maria PHILLIPS - Mother: Mary Eudey Father: John Henry
There is also a marriage in Victoria 1885 for Ellen ENDEY to Thomas Phillips (born England)
Can't see a marriage in Victoria for John Henry Phillips and Mary Endey/Eudey
I hope this is a help :)
Raylen
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There is a marriage on FreeBDM
Marriages Jun 1870
Eudey Mary Redruth 5c 384
On the same page
PHILLIPS John Henry Redruth 5c 384
Trish
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Where could I find Directories from that time?
Hi Patricia
The directories I'm talking about are
Wise's Post Office Directories
Sands & McDougall Street Directories.
I'll check them out at the Library for you.
But It looks like we're looking at 2 different families. Thomas & Ellen Phillips and John Henry & Mary Phillips.
So which one is yours?
Regards
Genni
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Hi Genni,
Sorry for the delay in replying - haven't had a chance to get onto this for a couple of days, with work and all...
I'll have to get back to you on this when I've re-checked all my documentation (most of it is at home), so will reply tomorrow sometime!
Regards,
Patricia
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Hi Ellen,
Sorry for taking so long to come back to you on this, unfortunately life got in the way (as it does), and I got side-tracked onto other branches of my tree and have only just come back to this one...
The family I'm after is definitely the John Henry Phillips and Mary Phillips (nee Eudey) one.
It appears, though that his occupation is listed as miner (1877), and clerk (1895), which is where I got the 'lawyer' idea from.
If you're still willing to find info for me I'd really appreciate it!
Regards,
Patricia
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Sorry - I'm a bit confused here.
Your JHP was born 1853, Cornwall. Trish has a marriage for a JHP to Mary Eudy in 1870, (he would be 17; young but possible). You say he was married 1885 to Ellen EUDY but the only marriage showing in Victoria 1885 is for a Thomas PHILLIPS to an Ellen ENDY, which you now think is not relevant ?
You have some info re his occupation. I am wondering what this may be and do you have some UK census entries for him?
I've had a look at the 1903 Electoral roll but there are a number of "John Henry PHILLIPS", some with a Mary PHILLIPS at the same address and many more listed as "John PHILLIPS" but no way of knowing if any of them are your chap.
Raylen, if the birth indexes show a birthplace there may give some clue as to where he was living.
Cheers, Judith
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I'm confused as well. Definitely two different families - John H possibly married in Cornwall 1870 and Thomas in Vic 1885.
There are two births to John Henry PHILLIPS and Mary E*DEY, I think you need to recheck your data. I think the 1870 marriage in Cornwall is more likely. Have you found their shipping record? Do you have any certs at all?
PHILLIPS Mary
Father John Henry Mother Mary ENDEY
At Sandhurst 1877 Reg#11494
PHILLIPS Catherine Maria
Father John Henry Mother Mary EUDEY
At Carlton 1879 Reg#14496
Not listed under Attorney, Solicitor or Proctor 1880 Melbourne.
What was the document in 1895 that listed John H as a clerk?
Either of the birth certificates would give you John H's occupation, his age, place and date of marriage...
Cheers
Cando
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Hi cando & judb,
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Now I find that I've made a SECOND mistake with this family!!!
My only excuse being that I've been fairly spoilt, having had good documentation on most of my family from my nan; as well as some pretty unusual surnames to research, hence not many choices. However, this side of the family has been VERY poorly documented (mostly on account of my nan not getting on at all well with her mother-in-law ;) )
I went over the marriage cert from 1895 (for my g-grandparents, Robert James Stannard & Mary Phillips) with the proveribial fine-toothed comb (having glanced through it to confirm the info I ordered it for - mostly to do with my g-grandfather), and noted - to my embarrassment that the father of Mary PHILLIPS is listed as Peter PHILLIPS...and her age: 20, putting her birthdate around 1874.
So...now I'm looking at a WHOLE new family.
What have I got now:
Mary PHILLIPS b 1874, Sandhurst; parents: Peter and Mary Ann PHILLIPS (nee PHILLIPS), married 1872 in Melbourne, Victoria.
Both parents born in Cornwall, England in abt 1839 - I've got their parents names and occupations, so will head on to see if I can find them in Census returns shortly (ie tonight :) )
Siblings of Mary PHILLIPS:
William Henry, b 1873, Sandhurst
Agnes Jane, b 1876, Sandhurst
Catherine Priscilla, b 1878, Sandhurst
Peter PHILLIPS's occupation is listed as "miner" on his marriage cert (1872) and Mary's birth cert (1874); but as "clerk" on the marriage cert of Mary to Robert James STANNARD (1895).
Any refs to this family (which is now definitely right!) would be fantastic, as would any census or electoral data.
Thanks very much, apologies for the wrong avenues :-[
Regards,
Patricia
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On the 1903 roll there is a Peter PHILLIPS at Golden Square [Bendigo] with occupation secretary but there is no Mary PHILLIPS at the same address. Perhaps he may have enrolled at his business address. There is a Mary PHILLIPS enrolled at Golden Square at a different address.
There are burial records for Peter and Mary PHILLIPS in the same grave MON L5 Grave#21421, at
http://www.bencemtrust.com.au/search.asp
PHILLIPS Peter
Father Phillips Henry Mother Priscilla UNKNOWN
73 years at Bendigo 1912 Reg#478
PHILLIPS Mary Ann
Father Phillips William Mother Priscella UNKNOWN
At Golden Square 84 years 1922 Reg#9405
Cheers
Cando
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There is a digitised will dated 1911 for Peter PHILLIPS, miner of Golden Square, died 26 January 1912. Executors are Robert Saunders, draper and Ralph Jones, produce merchant, both of Golden Sq. It says he had lived in the Bendigo district for upwards of fifteen years.
The willl itself leaves bequests to his sister in Adelaide and to Elizabeth EUDIE giving her address in Cornwall, lists his children William Henry PHILLIPS of Durban (edit, this may not be right - just realised I didn't recheck but definitely in South Africa) Sth Africa, Mary STANNARD of Maritzburg, Natal, Sth Africa, Thomas PHILLIPS of Golden Sq. The residue of his estate to go to the parish in Cornwall (same address as Elizabeth) St Stithians, via Perranwell to endow a 'juvenile industrial competition' named after his parents Henry and Catherine.
There are comments on what to do if his widow makes claim on his estate. So it looks as though he and Mary maynot have been on very good terms, although Cando found them buried together. Also a mention of him falling and breaking his arm! It says he was secretary to a mining union so I suppose that's where the difference is in the two occupations he gives.
It's a fascinating read. The site does take a while to load though.
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=54
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From IGI
Baptism: 3 Nov 1839, St Stithians, Cornwall, Peter PHILLIPS, parents Henry PHILLIPS, Catherine
Baptism: 22 June 1834, Sophia Jane PHILLIPS, same parish, same parents
Marriage: 8 May, 1831 St Stithians, Cornwall, Henry PHILLIPS to Catherine ODGERS
Baptism: 26 August, 1800, St Stithians Cornwall, Catherine ODGER, parents John ODGER, Catherine
There is another birth/baptism entry for Peter but the dates are different and it is a submitted entry. It gives Catherine's surname as MITCHELL. The entries above are from the filmed records.
Judith
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Also from IGI
Baptism: 28 Jul 1839, Stithians Cornwall, Mary PHILLIPS, parents William PHILLIPS, Priscilla.
The parish is apparently sometimes referred to as "Stithians"
Additions:
UK Census:
1851 all born Stithians residing parish of Stithians. Village of Crellow.
Percillia Phillips 45, widow, grocer
Agness Phillips 16, dressmaker
James Phillips 14, copper miner
Mary P Phillips 11 (I am not convinced that that the initial is "P')
1861
Priscilla and Mary (grocers' assistant) at same address
1871 has Priscilla PHILLIPS at above address but Mary PHILLIPS age 30 is with her - doesn't match with the 1870 marriage Cando found :'(
Pricilla PHILLIPS aged 80 is at same address in 1881;
Digging a bit further on the census at Stithian comes up with a number of PHILLIPS - Marys, Henrys, Catherines etc! None of them fit really well with what we already seem to have :'(
Judith
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A few mentions of Peter on the Beta newspapers:
Illness, May and September, 1911
Summary of the Will, May 1912
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
Judith
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1841
Living at Trembroath, Stithians H0107/139/3
PHILLIPS Henry 50 Farmer b. county
PHILLIPS Catharine 45 b. county
PHILLIPS William 15 Copper Miner b. county
PHILLIPS Mary 15 b. county
PHILLIPS John 11 b. county
PHILLIPS Jane 7 b. county
PHILLIPS Peter 2 b. county
ODGER John 20 Copper Miner Not born county
1851
Living at Trembroath, Stithians H0107/1914/28
PHILLIPS Henry 63 Farmer b. Stithians, Cornwall
PHILLIPS Catherine 55 b. Beenfleet, Devon
PHILLIPS John 20 Miner b. Stithians, Cornwall
PHILLIPS Sophia J 17 b. Stithians, Cornwall
PHILLIPS Peter 12 b. Stithians, Cornwall
Cando
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No entry for Peter in the 1904 trade directory for Bendigo. The listings do include various societies etc.
Australian Electoral Roll
1903
PHILLIPS Emily Macdougall Road, Golden Square HD
PHILLIPS Isabella Macdougall Road, Golden Square Home duties
PHILLIPS Peter Macdougall Road, Golden Square Secretary
PHILLIPS William Macdougall Road, Golden Square Miner
I have listed the names in Macdougall Road but they may not be at the same residence. There is no Mary Ann enrolment in 1903.
No further enrolments for Peter PHILLIPS.
1914
PHILLIPS Mary Ann 113 Wattle Street, Bendigo HD
Peter is mentioned on page 318 in a publication Annals of Bendigo 1851-67; 1868-1891; 1892-1909. Author/compiler George Mackay. I live nowhere near a library or genealogy group so cannot help with a lookup.
There is a headstone of Peter and Mary's grave in the Bendigo Cemetery.
I wonder if the Bendigo Genealogy Society could help
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~brgs/
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando & Judb,
Thanks so much for the information - most of it is verified by the marriage cert I ordered for Peter Phillips and Mary Phillips - they married in Melbourne in 1872.
I've been tinkering around with the Cornish OPC Site, IGI and census returns all day and made lots of progress :)
Thanks again, fantastic to be on the right track :D :D :D :D
I'll be coming back to this post a LOT in the next few weeks!
Regards,
Patricia
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I am researching Julia Phillips (1836 Stithians -1915 Ballarat), who I believe was Peter Phillips' half sister, from his father Henry Phillips first marriage to Ann Murton 8 Jul 1810 Stithians.
Not mentioned in the above dialogue, is that I believe Peter Phillips arrived 1857 aboard Mindoro with his aunty Julia Phillips (Mrs. William Dunstan), and her three chn: Mary (Perry) Dunstan; William Henry Dunstan; and Wearne Dunstan.
Name: Peter Phillips
Estimated birth year: abt 1839 Age: 18
Arrival Date: 28 Jul 1857 Arrival Port: Melbourne and Victoria, Australia
Departure Port: Plymouth Ship: Mindoro
My research is also leading towards his mother being Catherine Odgers. She was a widow at the time she married Henry Phillips 8 May 1831 Stithians, Cornwall. As to her maiden name, if it was not Odgers, I have not proved. Others may know if Odgers was her married name, and Mitchell, then could have been her maiden name as others suggest, and I believe the name of his mother written on Peter Phillips' marriage certificate 1872 Melbourne. Others may confirm this.
Keith