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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: adam_in_SW_Middx on Sunday 10 February 08 15:37 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help me to find Ann Lock b.1844 Limpsfield, Surrey on the 1891 census.
As she was born towards the end of the year she should be aged 46 and living in Isleworth or near to where she was in 1881: 46 Ebury Street, Westminster.
Many thanks
Chris
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Hello Chris
There is a Victoria Ann Lock 48 Lady's Maid, b Limpsfield in Surrey, Servant in a household in Firbeck Yorkshire. She is single.
I can post the details of the household if you think this is the right one. There are lots of servants!
Barbara
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Although the person I'm after was unmarried and a ladysmaid in 1871 and 1881 I don't think she would be shown as 48 or Victoria Ann (as she was Ann and 36 and 46). I've just seen the record you mention on FreeCen.
Victoria sounds as though it could be made up and i haven't found a Victoria Lock in birth registers or previous censuses. Ann may later have made attempts to hide her identity as she had an illegimate child, also Ann Lock in 1867.
The 1901 census shows:
LOCK Victoria Ann 54 b. Limpsfield living in: St Margarets London
who must be the same person as your Victoria as no other one matches.
Do you think that "Victoria" could be "Ann"?
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Hello Chris
I am concerned about the name change but the lady I found in 1891 was the only one who matched on surname, age and place of birth.
Are you sure that your Ann did not die or marry between 1881 and 1891?
I think what we need to do is to check the other censuses to see if there were 2 Ann/Vistoria Ann Locks born Limpsfield.
Do you have your Ann's birth registration?
Barbara
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Hello again Chris
I have just found this
Births Dec 1838
LOCK Victoria Ann Godstone 4 157
Deaths Mar 1908
LOCK Victoria Ann 69 Wandsworth 1d 456
This looks like the Victoria Ann on the 1891 and 1901 censuses.
So where is your Ann? I am having trouble finding her and Victoria Ann in 1851 and 1861.
Barbara
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Thank you for finding a Victoria Ann, at least we can rule her out (probably though she is a sister or cousin).
I can't find Ann's birth certificate - Ann's birth registration was not:
Births Dec 1844
LOCK Ann Godstone 4 156 Godstone
I ordered the certificate and it told me this Ann was born in Godstone High Street. Limpsfield is quite far away from there on multimap.
In 1871 Ann lived at 42 Ebury Buildings
In 1881 she lived at 46 Ebury Street
I don't know if she married but
this record is definitely not her in 1901:
Anne F Fulker 57 Surrey Limpsfield Croydon C B Croydon as in the household she has a Son, Walter Fulker aged 21 nor is it
Annie Riddle 58 Surrey Limpfield Southampton Portsmouth as in the household are only Silas and Gwendoline and in 1865 Ann Firmager married Silas Riddle born in Hoathly, Sussex, shown on the 1881 census.
So I am sure this leaves you as puzzled as I am: where Ann is in 1891 and 1901?
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Hello Chris
This is a puzzle.
I cannot find Ann in 1851 or 1861 but will have another try.
The Ann registered in 1844 - can you tell me her parents names? I would like to try to find them. It could be that your Ann was born in Godstone but moved at an early age and was brought up in Limpsfield.
Barbara
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On the birth certificate above the parents are Thomas Lock, a larker and Esther (Buckland).
I think Ann's parents may have been William Lock b1813 Godstone and Sarah (Terrey), It would be great if you could find them on the census in Limpsfield or may be they were living in Titsey or Oxted which the 1901 census suggests. I know they had two sons who moved to London according to the 1881 census (Edward born 1838 and William b1840).
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Hello again
I will have another look around.
I think I have found Ann with Thomas and Hester in 1851.
I still can't see Ann in 1871 ???
In 1881 I see she is in the household of a Scottish Peer. I wonder if they might have been abroad in 1891?
What else do you know about Ann?
Barbara
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In 1841 Sarah Lock is in Limpsfield with 2 sons Edward and William.
There is this death reg
Deaths Sep 1840
LOCK William Godstone 4 19
and Sarah remarries in Dec 1843 see IGI and Free BMD to Alexander Kimber
In the 1851 census she is with Alexander, 4 Kimber children and William Lock aged 11 who is described as illegitimate. The oldest Kimber child is George aged 6. Edward Lock is with his maternal grandparents.
It seems unlikely that Ann would have fitted into this family.
Barbara
I will check out Thomas and Hester
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In 1851 in Godstone Village there is a family transcribed as Jark but it looks like Lock to me.
Thomas Head Mar 47 Stone Merchant's Labourer b Surrey Boxted
Esther Wife Mar 37 b Surrey (not sure of town)
Anne Dau 6 b Surrey Godstone
Mary Jane Dau 4 b Surrey Godstone
Ref is HO107 1600 f 94
This ties up with the birth cerificate you have.
Barbara
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In 1861 Thomas and Esther plus Mary Jane and another daughter 8 year old Esther are still in Godstone Village.
A 16 year old Annie Lock is a visitor in the Papp household in Nutfield. She is a needleworker.
In 1871 Thomas, wife Esther and daughter Annie are in Bletchingley. Annie is 26 and a dressmaker.
More to follow.
Looks as though Thomas was born Oxted and Esther his wife in Horne
Barbara
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In 1881 Esther is a widow and Annie is living with her. There is also a Boarder aged 6, Bertha S Kent b Bletchingley.
In 1891 Annie is still in Godstone. She is at the bottom of the census page and I cannot see who is with her as the next page of the census is missing!
In 1901 Annie is in the Alms Houses in Godstone.
So, we now have full details of the Annie b Godstone 1844 daughter of Thomas and Esther.
She is obviously a different person from the Ann Lock who is a ladies maid in 1881 and states she was born in Limpsfield.
I cannot find this Limpsfield Ann on any other census and nor can we find a birth registration.
This indicates that she may have changed her name or that she appears on the census before 1871 under a different name. This often happens if the mother remarries.
Barbara
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Thank you Barbara
All I know is that Ann Lock was unmarried in 1871 and 1881 and was lady's maid to the family of Viscount Strathallen's. She may have been working for another Scottish family in 1867 when she had the affair as the fairly well-off Muirhead family were the ones paying for the upkeep of her child.
I agree that there might have been a marriage between 1861 and 1871 of whoever Ann Lock's mother was to a Mr Lock unless there has been another surname mistranscription and Ann Lock is lurking again somewhere under the name Jark or similar... and then what about after the 1881 census? Perhaps I should start ordering marriage certificates.
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Difficult to know where to go with this.
Would it be worth checking on the Strathallen family, in particular Frances M Drummond to see if Ann stayed as her ladies maid?
Barbara
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Can any one find then Frances Mary Drummond in 1891 (age 42)
1901: this household: Frances Drummond 53 Scotland London St George Hanover Square
and please tell me is Ann Lock still her lady's maid?
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Sorry to take so long coming back to you on this but I wanted to check The Times Digital Archive for information on Frances Mary Drummond (the link was not available yesterday for some reason).
In the obituary for Viscount Strathallan in January 1886 his daughter Frances Mary Drummond is Maid of Honour to the Queen.
Also in Jan 1947 the death of Frances Mary Drummond, formerly Maid of Honour to Queen Victoria, is announced.
In 1901 there are 2 ladies maids in the household of Mariana and Frances Drummond: Alice Foreman 37 b London and Annie Crawley 24 b St Albans.
I will recheck 1891.
Barbara
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In 1891 Frances Mary is living in Eaton Place. No ladies maid recorded and no other servant fitting your Ann' description.
Barbara
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Hello again Margaret, then based on the following:
Marriages Dec 1882 (>99%)
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GARDNER Annie St.Geo.H.sq. 1a 797
Haggis James St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 797
Lock Annie St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 797
Truman James St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 797
Could you find in 1891 these two men, James Haggis and James Truman to see if Annie (ex Lock) was born in Limpsfield.
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Now this looks hopeful!
3 Cork? Place, Gladstone Terrace, Battersea
James Haggis Head Mar 45 Painter b London St James
Ann Wife Mar 44 b London Westminster
Ellen Lock Dau Single 21 b London Westminster
Ref is RG12 426 f 107
I will check the Truman name.
Barbara
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Oh dear - I don't think this is right as I can See James Haggis on the 1881 census in the household of Alfred Lock who has a daughter Annie!
Barbara
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Then this is the next most likely marriage, I would be grateful if you could find out if this Ann was the one in question:
Marriages Jun 1884
Harrison Arthur St. Saviour 1d 242
LOCK Ann St Saviour 1d 242
Record John St Saviour 1d 242
STROUD Julia St.Saviour 1d 242
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It looks as though John Record married Julia.
Arthur Harrison and wife Ann (living in St Saviour and therefore most likely the couple who married there) are 29 and 33 respectively. both born London City.
There are 2 other couples in London with the same names but neither fits in with your Ann.
Barbara
Do you know what happened to Ann's child? Any chance that Ann might be with/near him/her?
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Ann Lock her daughter lived in Sunbury, Middlesex in 1891 (she was married in Lambeth).
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Free BMD has a couple of deaths in the London area that might fit your Ann - although that does not explain why we cannot find her on the censuses. On the other hand if she continued as a ladies maid she might have gone abroad with her employer.
If she was in an institution in 1891 she would probably be shown with just her initials. There is a female A L aged 47 in Wandsworth asylum in 1891. She is a needllewoman (which does not really fit) and there is no place of birth given. She is recorded as a Lunatic and blind.
Barbara
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Hi Barbara,
I have not seen a record of her being blind, but perhaps she changed her name after having the child illegitimately - who was Frances Drummond living with in 1861?
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Hello Chris
Frances was at Strathallan Castle with her parents and siblings plus servants in 1861. She was 12.
Barbara
Do you have the birth certificate for Ann Lock b 1867? Just wondering whether that would give us some clues. It is odd that we cannot find Ann senior except in 1881.
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Yes the birth certificate says
Reg dist: Brentford
1867 Birth in the sub-district of Isleworth in the County of Middlesex
No 344
When & where born 22Mar 1867 Union Workhouse Isleworth
- father is blank
Name, surname and maiden surname of mother: Ann Lock
neatly in the top left corner: x
the mark of Ann Lock mother Union Workhouse Isleworth
When registered: 3 April 1867
Signature of Registrar: Saml J n Mortimer Registrar
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Thanks for that extra information Chris. Unfortunately it has not helped me to locate Ann in 1861.
Ann is really a mystery. To summarise
We have no birth reg
We have her only in the 1881 census
We have her name on her illegitimate daughter's birth certificate
We have found no death or marriage for her
You said in an earlier post that you have Ann on the 1871 census - can you give me the reference as I cannot find her.
Barbara
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I have an address from my mother when she looked up the 1871 census, could you check it, it says the Drummonds were living with Ann at 42 Ebury Bldgs, Westminster.
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The above was wrong. Thanks Barbara for your great help. I have found her, Victoria Ann Lock at times see below:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=263508.msg6501653#msg6501653 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=263508.msg6501653#msg6501653)