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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: amberly on Monday 11 February 08 21:22 GMT (UK)
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As a very little girl [in the 1940's]I used to go on the bus with my Gran to visit a small farm on the main bus route from Wrexham to Gobowen. We'd get off the bus & cross the road to the farm, it was right on the edge of the road. These were friends of my Gran who lived there named Aggie & Reg. Aggie I beleive was Agnes [nee FOX] but I don't know what her married name was. Reg was her husband, but what was his surname???
I beleive she was sister to SELINA Fox who m David Lewis from Chirk Green. Anyone who lives around there now have ideas who they may have been??? Amberly
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Hi Amberly
As a little girl (n the 50s) , I used to take the bus from Chirk to Oswestry nearly every week. I'm trying to visualise whereabouts the farm was - was it on the Oswestry side of Gobowen or the Chirk side?
I have most of the Whittington (Gobowen was in that parish) , St Martins and Chirk records but I think we're going into BMDs. They would have been in the Oswestry Registration District.
I'll check up on other sources.
regards
Gadget
PS - roughly how old do you think they were?
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Hi again
I've found a possible Agnes in the 1891 census who fits your description. Not sure if she might be a bit older but she did have a sister Selina:
1891 Census
Smythy Cottage, St Martins
RG12/2118 Folio 64 Page 7
Mary Price, 83, widow, b. Flint
Thomas Fox,son in law, 42, coal miner, b. Denbighshire, Chirk
Selina Fox, grdd, 18, b. Denbighshire, Chirk
Evan Fox, grds,16, coal miner, b. Denbighshire, Chirk
Agnes Fox,grdd,9, b. Denbighshire, Chirk
Annie Fox, grdd,6, b. Denbighshire, Chirk
So far, I can't find a marriage for her though :(
Gadget
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Think it's the right family
Selina Fox married David James Lewis, Dec Quarter, 1899, Oswestry vol 6a page 1451
Gadget :)
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While you were replying I was too, but the message has got lost although I clicked send. Anyway here I go again. Yes that's the correct family that you've found. When I visited the farm I'd be coming on the bus from Wrexham & I think we used to look for a school ?? on the other side of the road & then get up & pull the bell & the bus would stop right outside the farm gate. The house was right on the road with a high wall around it. Mind you I was small so it may not have been that high!! And the gate was a farm gate & you could see through into the yard. The house was on the left of the gate. I figure Aggie & Reg were in their 60's. I've no idea if they had any children, there were never any there. On the 1901 census Agnes is living with Selina, her husband & their 6 mth old baby named Charles E at Moreton Cottage. The sisters were b in Weston Rhyn. Can't think of anymore I can tell you. Amberly
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I'm trying to visualise the bus route.
You'd pass the four crosses (where the road to St Martins and Weston Rhyn crossed the A5 ) and there was a small railway line going from Ifton coliery to Preesgwyn. Then you' d go down a straight bit of road and the road crossed the canal and there was a pub on the left (bus side) then there were some walls and fields and you were nearly in Gobowen. The Church was on the west side of the road and then houses both sides. So it would be before that. I think the school was close to the Church on the opposite side.
Here's a map of present day Gobowen:
Click Here (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=330000.468057051&Y=335000.905076587&width=500&height=300&gride=330302.468057051&gridn=333522.905076587&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=25000&down.x=256&down.y=322)
The old road is the one that runs diagonally from the top centre left and is coloured yellow and brown/orange. I thinkthe farm must have been close to the Church but I don't remember a wall :-\
Gadget
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Have to go I'm cooking supper, will be back on line in 1/2 hr. Thanks Amberly
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OK, I'm back & I've studied the map & yes I can see where you mean & that could have been it. Whether the farm is there now or not I don't know, but the road hasn't been changed there, has it? May be the wall was actually the wall of the house?? So what do we do now to try & find her name? Does the farm have a name? That may ring a bell with me?? Thanks again, Amberly
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The road has changed quite a bit and the main road now by-passes Gobowen.
Three possibilities -
1. she might have married Reg late - say after ww1 and the records aren't up on FreeBMD, which is why I can't find them or she could have married away - say if she went into service. It's difficult to find an appropriate marriage in these cases. If it was in Oswestry, it would mean going through all the GRO marriage indexes for a broad period to see if we could find her. This could take a long time.
2. I'll see if I can locate the farm on the 1901 census.
3. If all else fails, I could ask someone to go have a look :)
Gadget
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4. I'm going to have a look at the Old Maps site :D
Gadget
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On the 1891 map, the only buildings names - and most farms would be named - is Spring Cottage. It is right on the road in the position that you mentioned but has a field surrounding it. The only other group of buildings is Plas Gwyn farm but that is away` fromn the road towards Daywell.
Gadget
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This is a long shot but the only Reginald that I can find in Gobowen in 1891 was a Reginald Brown, aged 1. His father was a policeman, Robert Brown. They seemed to be livng with his grandfather, Thomas Morris, a wheelwright at Last Inn Cottages, Chirk Road, Gobowen.
RG12/2118 Folio 75 Page 12
I've been looking at Google Earth but unfortunately the photos were taken early in the morning and the shadow is pretty heavy :(
Gadget
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I see that William, who lives locally, is now online so maybe he might take a little trip that way :D
Gadget
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Wow, you've been busy whilst I was eating my dinner! Who is William?? The names of the farms you gave me don't ring a bell with me. And neither does the name Reg Brown, but I only knew them as Auntie Aggie & Uncle Reg. I've looked on freebmd too for marriages, but they're often not up to date I find. So until I found you I didn't have much idea what to do next. Thanks again, TTYS, I'm on-line with 3 different people at the mo, but I'll be back & look in. A.
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Well, I'm off to bed but I've got my OS map out and find that the school was slightly closer in to the village centre than the church. If what you say is correct, there weren't any farms that close in :-\
Memory can play tricks - are you sure you didn't walk a short distance after crossing the road?
Gadget
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No the bus would stop right outside the farm gate but I was only 4 so I'm sure my memory is not all that accurate. I think my gran used to tell the bus driver where she wanted him to stop & he would. They were very obliging in those days! So we may get nowhere, never mind we tried. Thanks again, I'll look in on you again tomorrow, but I won't be up until your lunch time. A.
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hi. i think reg & agnes could be relations of mine, they lived at hennlle farm gobowen which is still there but is no longer a farm. i am not sure when agnes died but reg died in 1991, they never had children of there own. the school you mention would be morton school.
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Hi, Tell me more please. What was their surname, because that's why I got stuck.I couldn't find a marr for Aggie, so couldn't look any further for her. I don't think I ever knew the name of the farm. I had a feeling they didn't have any children but wasn't positive. Was she sister to Selina Fox? If we establish she's who I'm looking for I'll give you my home e-mail & maybe we could then correspond that way. Thanks so much for replying. Amberly.
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hi again, the name of agnes & reg is tomley, but the maiden name of agnes was lewis not fox,and as far as i know she never had a sister called selina but she had one called sarah ann who married a man named brown they had girl called jean , when she was a year old her fathers ship went down in the second world war, she was aggies only niece . jean now lives at daywell cresent near the church , as she never married her name is still brown, i hope this has been some help to you.
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Sorry I've been so long replying but my husband has been in hospital. This could be them, & I just assumed Aggie was Selina's sister, when I found Selina had a sister named Agnes living with her after she got married. Selina Fox married a Dai Lewis who was the son of the Lewis' who brought up my grandmother. Does Jean have an e-mail address for me to communicate with her, by any chance? It's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack! Thanks so much, Amberly.
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sorry but i do not know jean by person, the information i have given you so far is what my mother has told me, she is sister to reg and is now 96 years old, but has a good memory for her age. i am sure this is the aggie and reg you are looking for as the farm they lived in is just as you discribed,do you remember anything about the inside of the house?, i can remember that you had to step down into the kitchen.
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I'm going to give you my home e-mail so we can continue this privately, do you mind that? (*)
I remember walking through the farmyard gate & the house was on the left & you walked around to the door & went in to a huge kitchen with the range facing you. I can't remember if you went down a step or not. Ask your Mum please if she remembers Aggie having a friend named Mary Francis Lewis, called Polly who married a Walter Barker Roberts, called Wally & they lived in Rhosddu, Wrexham? They had 2 children, May & John, often called Johnnie or Jack. Thanks so much, Amberly.
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If Aggie was Agnes Lewis who were her parents? Just realized I hadn't asked you that. Amberly
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I think I've sent you a personal message now with my e-mail address. I'm not sure as the instructions weren't exactly straight forward, but I hope I have.
Please let me know.
Amberly