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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Ecneps on Sunday 17 February 08 13:59 GMT (UK)
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Looking for Mary, Esther and Daniel Bird, all born Souldrop, Bedfordshire - can anyone help please?
Census 1871 - Huddersfield RG10/4368 f.20 p.33
Francis Zipfel head 43 b. Norwich
Mary Zipfel wife 42 b. Souldrop Bedfordshire
Esther Zipfel dau 19 "
Maria Zipfel " 1 b. Huddersfield
Census 1881 - Huddersfield RG11/4381 fol.108 p.23
Francis Zipfell head 51 b. Norwich
Mary Zipfell wife 49 b. Souldrop
Maria Zipfell dau 16 b. Huddersfield
Daniel Bird stepson 24 b. Souldrop
I'm assuming Francis Zipfel married Mary ? who was previously married to a Mr. Bird with children Esther & Daniel but can't find them before 1871
I have Daniel from 1881-1901, but nothing for Esther apart from 1871 census.
Francis Zipfel died 1890, haven't found Mary in 1891 yet.
Can anyone help?
crossing fingers, Barbara :)
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FreeBMD has a one sided marriage of Francis Zipfell in Apr/Jun 1887 at Huddersfield vol 9a page 573, one-sided as the entry does not show any other party. But going into full marriage index lookup, I find it is Mary Bird also married in that quarter & on same vol/page
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Thanks for the speedy reply John, I had seen the one-sided entry for Francis, but I thought (should have known better by now) that the marriage was too late for this couple so hadn't looked up the bride :-\
How interesting, so they didn't marry until 1887 ??? Wonder who she married first then and if he was still alive when she was living with Francis.
Thanks very much for that,
Barbara
:)
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Hi Barbara
Are you sure Mary was married before ??? ???
as there is a Mary Bird living in Souldrop on the 1841 census about the right age
ricky
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1841
William Bird 50 ag lab born in county
Mary " 30 "
John " 20 "
Thomas " 15 "
Mary " 14 "
Benjamin " 11 "
Jane " 2 "
George " 10 months "
living in Souldrop, Beds
H0107/ 8/15
folio 9
page 12
ricky
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No I'm not sure of anything, just assuming she was perhaps a widow and I hadn't seen that 1841 entry
Some family member thought she might previously have been called Fosket, but that's hearsay only, and it threw me off the scent a bit - unless of course there were two Marys and 2 marriages
thanks Ricky
Barbara :D
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1851
She is a servant
Mary Bird serv u/m 23 house servant Beds Souldrop
H0107/ 1743
folio 249
page 3
ricky
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Barbara....
Instead of Foskett how about Fossey....
I can see a Daniel Bird as a Grandson in Amptill
RG9/1000 f 23 p40
Head is Thomas Fossey
Tazzie
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Nah....I cannot see a marriage of Fossey to Bird being hopeful I guess
Tazzie
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There are two Daniel Birds who married Elizabeths - Burgess in Souldrop in 1851 and Fossey in Ampthill in 1853. I think the Ampthill family is a red herring
David
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I think this would be the baptism for the Daniel Bird in Ampthill
Baptism Daniel Bird
13 MAR 1857 Ampthill, Bedford
Father: DANIEL BIRD Family
Mother: ELIZTH
Debbie
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Yes I can see they have a daughter Mary A but she is only b 1838...so too late for the missing Mary .
I can see who I think is Francis 1841 then nothing until 1871 the name is open to many mis-transcriptions I bet ,
Tazzie
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Mary Zipfel; death index Huddersfield Oct/Dec 1897 vol 9a page 248, age 63
1891 census Huddersfield down as Mary CLOCKHILL ::)
RG12/3566; Folio 87; Page 13
Mary Zipfel, wife, age 60 widow, born Bedford
Annie M Zipfel, daughter,age 21, born Huddersfield ; worsted worker
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Yes thanks, I should have said, I followed that Daniel Bird b. Ampthill through the census, and he's in the 1881 Luton at the same time as 'my' Daniel is in Huddersfield
And yes, Francis Zipfel is a little mystery all on his own, born Norwich c.1828, think I've got him in East Dereham Norfolk in 1841 aged 10 staying in an inn, then nothing til he turns up in Huddersfield in 1871 as a hawker, his family were all clockmakers so I don't know why he's gone awol except that his mother died in 1838. And yes, the name is open to very many mistranscriptions, Tipple, Lipfel, you name it.... this last query has come about because I amended Griffiths to Zipfell on ancestry's 1881 index and a family member has got in touch with me through ancestry to find out more about about Mary & Daniel
Oh thanks very much John, that's a brilliant variation to add to my list, (Clockhill) -- well done for the death reg and the 1891, you're a star!
:D :D
Barbara
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;D ::) Clockhill ....very apt then Barbara watch makers ....
this could take a while...
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:D :D
Just looked at the 1891, the name was Cockhill, and was the name of the family on the previous page, nothing to do with Mary Zipfel who was on the next page and in a different household altogether - but we won't mention mistranscriptions will we, so it's not actually a variation on the Zipfel name - will be sending in another amendment now.....
:) :) :)
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Ummm - the birth cert for Annie Maria b. 1870 might help - it will surely have maiden and possibly previous married name?
No doubt you've already thought of that.
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Thanks Mum44 - yes, of course, it's an option, but this bit of the family (distant, in fact it's my cousin's husband's and not mine!) has just resurfaced, so to speak, so haven't got round to that yet. Thought it would be an idea to try to find Daniel first for this person who contacted me, but he's a bit elusive, it might have to come down to certs - and I haven't found a birth reg for him yet, Anna Maria's cert might be the way to go, or Esther Bird's, I've got the ref for that one -- you're quite right!
Barbara :)
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Sorry Ricky, didn't thank you for the 1851 Bird census, these replies are coming so fast, so thank you, and everyone else too, making great strides
Barbara :D
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BMD marriage index Huddersfield RD vol 9a page 489 Apr/June 1872
Esther Bird to John Lorimer or Law Dyson, other female name Martha Ann Davis
1881 census Spring Street, Huddlesfield
RG11/4383 Folio: 131 Page: 24
John Lorimer, head, age 29, born Huddlesfield ; greengrocer
Esther Lorimer, age 28 , born Bedford, Beds ; Silk piercer
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Thanks for that John, so she went back to being a Bird for her marriage, I should have thought of that, I can follow her on in census from there then
Thank you very much
Barbara :)
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Looks like Daniel marries Huddersfield 1881 to Mary Elizabeth Law or Mary Dixon.
He looks to be the one being vague here RG12/3566 F 106 P10
Tazzie
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Hi Tazzie,
Yes thanks very much, I do have Daniel from 1881-1901 - I did say that at the beginning but there has been so much work done since then, and I really appreciate all the help!!
Maybe I should recap, thanks to all concerned, I have lots more on the Birds.
I'd still like to find
Daniel Bird in 1861 and 1871
Esther Bird in 1861
mother Mary Bird in 1861
Thanks again all, Barbara :)
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Hi Barbara....
Just wanted to show he wasn't exactly helping matters.
Mary/ Esther & Daniel I would hope to find together but nothing is popping out as yet even on just Daniel mother Mary .
Cannot see Francis either just on Fran* b 1828+/- 2 Norfolk for 1851/61
As for Daniels birth the only one is for the Amptill boy who we have accounted for.
I think I need caffine and a think...
Tazzie
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Thanks Tazzie, going for a break now too, to watch dancing on ice and stephen fry, not together I must add, although it's a thought....
thanks all, back later
Barbara
:)
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Hi Barbara
I've looked every which way for the Mary, Daniel and Esther in 1861 - so far no luck :( I will keep hunting.
Jan ;)
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Good luck Jan.....
I was at it for 2 hours yesterday...I have images of them hiding behind a hedge somewhere ::)
Tazzie
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Being Birds they may well be in the hedge ;D
Trouble is just because Mary was a Bird when she married Francis doesn't mean she was one in 1861. Also since Francis is nowhere to be found in 61 either I guess they could all be hiding together.
Jan ;)
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Thanks so much for looking, believe me I have looked too, but I thought new eyes might spot them where I couldn't, as John managed to find Mary & Anna Maria in 1891 misindexed.
Please don't spend any more time on them, they're maybe just missed off. I'll need to get Esther Bird's birth cert I think, then see what her mother's name was at that time. She may have been unmarried and so Mary Bird (perhaps the one Ricky found 1841/51), or she may have married one of those Birds, will have to do more digging & a cert seems to be the only way forward, or backwards
Many thanks all for your time and effort, much appreciated
Barbara :D :D
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No sign I'm afraid - can't see Daniel in 71 either, very strange.
Let us know if the birth or marriage certs are at all enlightening :D
Jan ;)
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You might all like to know the Bird relative got in touch, I've told her what you found, and we now have a new rootschatter!! Hoping she'll get that cert and put us out of our misery
Barbara :) :)
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Just for the record, a Frederick Bird b 1867 Souldrop married Annie Partridge of Riseley, in April 1893 at Souldrop. His parents were Robert (1839) & Mary Bird.
Wonder if we have a link ? John
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hi i'm the reason you have spent time chasing birds and i would just like to say a big thankyou to everyone. thanks to you lot i have a a little more info to add to my tree.
thanks again karen ;D ;D
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Hi Karen, love your RC name, glad to be of help.
what's the next topic 'The Notorious Byrd Brothers' perhaps - Guess I'm going back. ::)
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Hi Karen - welcome ! ;D ;D
Can't wait to see your avatar!
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Do I get brownie points for recruitment? ;D
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It's very apt that a partridge married a bird ;D ;D
Hi Karen, welcome to Rootschat, we're not all as barmy as Barbara Ecnops ;D ;D ;D ;D errr i mean Ecneps :P :P :P
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Madpants - that's a very generalised statement - can you back it up at all -- what proof do you have ??? ??? 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D
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'ere, 'ere, this is not the "lighter side"
Madpants' proof is, we go clumping round cemeteries together with nutty66 doing MI lookups we can't find........
so we must be barmy - but she's barmier, she went round Skelton churchyard with Jane in a howling gale the other week, I chickened out
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moi? I saw plenty of birds though ;D ;D :P :P
now to get back to the topic at hand.....
what questions do you have left unanswered? :P ;)
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Daniel Bird in 1861 and 1871
Esther Bird in 1861
mother Mary Bird in 1861
But hopefully foxybird will buy Esther's birth cert to find what surname Mary had then
~ 1853 Jun Qu Bedford 3b 299
In the meantime I have emailed Bedfordshire archives for a look-up
Barbara
:)
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Hi Foxybird
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I have Birds in my tree too -
John Bird born c 1757 married Susan Pink in Great Eversden Cambs, all children born Cockayne Hatley / Wrestlingworth. No idea as yet where John originally hailed from.
Jan ;)
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just thought i would let you all know i've ordered esther birds birth cert, here's hoping it will answer a few questions ???
madpants idon't know about a partridge marrying a bird in my family it was the fox that married her ;D
karen
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Just for the record, a Frederick Bird b 1867 Souldrop married Annie Partridge of Riseley, in April 1893 at Souldrop. His parents were Robert (1839) & Mary Bird.
Wonder if we have a link ? John
That's what happens when you dont read it properly :-[ ::) ::)
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Just an update, I received a reply from Bedfordshire Archives, unfortunately they couldn't find a baptism in Souldrop for either Daniel or Esther under any surname, suggest they may have been nonconformist or baptised in a different parish. So we'll just have to wait for Esther's birth cert....
Barbara :-\
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For an update for all you keen 'bird'watchers, here's what foxybird found out:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02s5/
Barbara
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Hi
I'm afraid I am new to Roots Chat, so here goes. I'm researching my family history and I was looking for Annie Maria Zipfel and her mother Mary Bird who married Francis Zipfel. I don't have a year for this marriage yet. Annie Maria Zipfel married Robert Evans born Cardiff c1861, they had 4 children who were born in Oldham and their youngest daughter Annie was born in Huddersfield, 1908 ( I have her birth certificate). I found the rootschat conversation interesting in the year 2008, I know that the Mysterious Birds - Born Souldrop was a long time ago, but did you ever find out anything else about the Birds and the Zipfel families? I hope you can help.
:) Thank you
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Hi Rutlander
Welcome to Rootschat!
"Afraid"? No need to be afraid! "Some of us" occasionally sound like we may bite, but it's normally just indigestion. :)
Ray
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Hi Rutlander
Mary bird was my great great grandmother,she and Francis appear together in the 1871 and 1881 census records and she has his name on them,but the only marriage record I can find is for Francis Zipfel in the 2qr of 1887.Anna Maria was born in 1869 and appears on the 1871 records with both of them.
Sorry i don't have a lot of info on the Zipfel side yet but I have rather a lot of names on the Birds side.