RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 19 February 08 12:15 GMT (UK)
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Ladies and Gentlemen, this weeks Scavenger Hunt will test you all to the fullest.
I've printed out Tiggi's information in full as I do believe you could get totally lost without it. You've had challenges before, but this one is the challenge to beat all challenges.
Good Luck..........and Good Hunting.
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My family were BUCKLAND Romani people
I would like to find them before 1857 I have not found any records before this date.
No-one, even experts have been able to find family connected to Tenet & Plato ( brothers) so if anyone can do this it would be a great find .
My Great Great Great grandfather was Tenet Buckland born abt 1831 England ( not known where)
He married Keziah ( Kagar) possibly Jeffs or Jeffery born 1832 England ( not known where)
I would love to know where they were born or married anything about Jeffery family too.
Children of Tenet & Keziah : To my knowledge none of children were born in USA all in England
Tryphena christened 1852 St Blazey Cornwall
Edith b 1851/4
Nelson b 1856
Henry b 1862
Anne b 1863
Betsey ( Elizabeth) b 1865
Thomas b 1865
Esther b 1866
Moses b 1867
Plato b 1870
I first found them in 1857 on SS Kangaroo going to USA via Liverpool
Tenet Buckland b 1831 England aged 26 Keziah ( his wife) b1832 England aged 25 Nelson ( son) b 1856 England aged 1 (one) also traveling with them was Tenet brother Plato b 1839 England aged 18 (unmarried)
(Nelson was my Great grandfather)
Next time I find Family they are in Stokenham Devonshire 1867
Records of Baptizms of 3 of Tenet & Keziah Buckland children :
Nelson b 14th May 1856 aged 11
Henry b 4th Nov 1862 aged 5
Elizabeth b 4th April 1865 aged 2
Also :
Sophia Buckland b 14th April 1867 ( baby)
parents Plato & Betsey Buckland
( Betsey maybe Elizabeth Small maybe possible marriage 1860)
I think their 1st child was Nelson b 1862 - died 1873 buried in Kingsbridge Devon
In 1872 marriage Edith Buckland to Wisdom Smith in Bromsgrove Worcestershire (Tenet Daughter)
In 1874 Nelson Buckland married Betsey Smith in Plymouth
In 1881 Census England Tavistock Cornwall
family are in Caravans
This Census is way off with ages but all family appear Nelson with Betsey & daughter Eliza, Edith with Wisdom & 2 children only one missing is Thomas
In 1881 Plato Buckland with his family are in Yealmpton Devonshire
In 1883 I found Plato has with a Ann Tucker taken a mortage on property in Modbury in Poundwell Street Devon
In 1886 family return to USA on SS Germanic
Tenet is called Thos b 1826
Kegar b 1832
5 children missing was Thomas & Ann
Ann may have died
Nelson is with Betsey & 4 kids
Edith with Wisdom & 3 kids
In 1886 Thomas Buckland is on Adriatic going to USA
his wife is Fabre but called Pheobe daughter of Richard & Ellen Stanley
William Stanley 40 b 1846 England
Fanny Stanley 40 b 1846 England
William Stanley aged 11 b 1875
Henry Stanley aged 8 b 1878
Thos Buckland 26 b 1860 England
Fabre Buckland 25 b 1861 England
Sally Buckland1 b 1885 England
Will Stanley 23 b 1863 England
Betsey Stanley 24 b 1842 England
Sophy Stanley 50 b 1836
Richard Stanley 40 b 1848 England
Ellen 26 b 1860 England
In 1888 SS Alaska Plato & his family are going to USA
with Penfold family who have married into his own
In 1890 USA Newspaper report confirms family were camped in Fort Lee across river from New york
Tenet buckland + 5 sons in total 30 persons
In 1891 Census Tideford St Germans Devonshire
Edith Buckalnd with family Wisdom Smith + 4 children
Edith died this same year in July buried in Honiton Devoshire
In 1898 Thomas Buckland is on SS Britannia via Ireland Liverpool to USA no other
family mentioned but refers to Plato Buckland his Uncle
1900 Census Dover township New York Plato Buckland with Family
Under name Bucklin
1901 Census England St Stephens Cornwall
Nelson + Betsey with Family
1904 SS Carpathia Liverpool to USA New York
This is last time family went to USA and most stayed
Plato is listed as Nelson going to see his family in New York
The sons of Tenet are there with families including Thomas only one missing is my Nelson still in Devon with his family he died 1908
Tenet is listed as nitron & Keziah as Mary
Plato tenet youngest son went the year before 1903 on SS Teutonic with his family
1910 Census USA Monroe East Rochestershire
Tenet now called Tinnet
with 3 sons & families Henry Moses & Plato
Nelson has died 1908 in UK
Thomas I think has returned to England but don't know where
Edith has died 1891
Betsey is married to Nelson wells 1910 in North Dakota county
Esther is married to Mark Jeffery ( born 1847 Devonshire) by now but don't know where they are in USA
But really I would like to find is
Tenet birth marriage
Plato birth marriage
Anything about where They both were before 1857
If anyone can place them with their family that would be great
If Keziah is a Jeffery & her family lineage
Anything between my findings that anyone can come up with really
looking forward to seeing what anyone can find
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bookmarking but not sure if i can be much help as everything i post gets copyrighted.
but they seem to be related to your lot Deb, Bucklands etc. in fact i think we spoke previously on Debs hunt and another thread.
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Toni, you need to actually type it out rather than copy and paste........that's the problem.
Barbara
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Found this in BMD birth index
Tenet Buckland Jan Feb Mar 1879 Plympton St Mary Cormwall Devon.
Does this help?
Sue
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Hi jamajo
I don;t know who this is but will keep it to one side its possible its a relation Tenet was a very unsual name and I would think anyone with that name has to be something to do with my family
It could be a son of one of Tennet children they would call children after grand parents so will look into that one
many thanks
The head of Family Tennet I am interested in was b 1830 ish and possible Oxfordshire Somerset area not Cornwall I think family came down here but wasn;t born in Devon or Cornwall
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ok so was 1857 whenthey married?
if so the elder hcildren were born out of wedlock.
if you get the birth cert for the elder childrne this will tell you where they were then but most importantly if Edith was born 1851 that would help you re the 1851 census.
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Hi Tiggi
Plato BUCKLAND b Dec 1/4 1839 Uppingham 15 663
Cheers Kris :D
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Hi cousin Tiggi .... ;D
Found you ! bookmarking for the moment .... BBS
deb ;D xx
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i'm not doing any lookups at the present time
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Hi
in 1851; Kilmersdon, Somerset
Hatchett Hill in tents
Thomas Buckland head mar 54 hawker b Oxfordshire , Deddington
Sarah wife 40 hawker b Oxfordshire Tanbury ?
Edith Jeffs unm hawker 18 b Oxfordshire, Oakley
Misella buckland dau 17 hawker b Oxfordshire, Blocksom
Platen Buckland son 13 b Berks Appletin
Matthew Buckland son 6 b Oxford,
deb
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ok so was 1857 whenthey married?
if so the elder hcildren were born out of wedlock.
if you get the birth cert for the elder childrne this will tell you where they were then but most importantly if Edith was born 1851 that would help you re the 1851 census.
hi toni
this is my problem I don;t know when they married never found anything anywhere in UK to prove they married but saying that yes its possible they married after kids were born but don;t think so unless they married by romani way then were married by church law if you follow
All i can sayfor sure is that their children were baptized
Which is on my beginning post
the only thing I have to go by for dates of Tenet & Keziah was when they went to USA in 1857 m y great grandfather was then 1 and with them I have thought its possible that Tryphena & Edith could be the same person maybe changed her name who names it was a common thing theydid
I also have thought its possible Edith I know lived was lwft with family here in Uk when parents went to USA but have never found again any proof to verify this
sandy
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Hi
in 1851; Kilmersdon, Somerset
Hatchett Hill in tents
Thomas Buckland head mar 54 hawker b Oxfordshire , Deddington
Sarah wife 40 hawker b Oxfordshire Tanbury ?
Edith Jeffs unm hawker 18 b Oxfordshire, Oakley
Misella buckland dau 17 hawker b Oxfordshire, Blocksom
Platen Buckland son 13 b Berks Appletin
Matthew Buckland son 6 b Oxford,
deb
Hi Debs
Thanks for that one Edith Jeffs sounds interesting will look it up again its possible connection I can;t say for sure to anything thats posted until i research rfurther but everything will be noted and I will let you all know if it brings me anything
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Tiggi on Appleton PRs is the following in Baptisms.
March 17 1839 Plato Buckland son of George and Sally--Travelling
Could this be the one that Deb found in 1851 census?
Sue
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There is a problem here not trying to confuse anyone but there is a Plato Buckland born roughly same time from Marlow Bucks he died aged 100 + and I know of him
Now he will come up I am sure but I don;t know if he is related to me but he isn;t Tenet brother sorry
Tephra wasn;t joking when she said this one will test everyones skills and I do appreciate eveyones interest really lol
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What I need really is someone who has access to parish records think thats only way we may find tenet or Plato
i have tried so hard to trace them believe me but only via Ancestry which only goes as far as 1841
so if anyone can look up parish records or suggest to me where to look that would help
thanks
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Hellooo all,
i'm here but at work if you get my drift.....
i am registering my interest but you clever cloggs will find more than i ;D ;D
however i am wanting some serious hunting to do to get me to my 1000 posts ;D ::)
Debz ..... hiya Deb and Toni ;)
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Hi Debz, still not doing look ups but am here
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i'm puuting this forward but i'm isure t's already known
Plato Buckland marriage Betsey Buckland 1860 Radnage buckingham
Birth- Plato Buckland Bedford 1841
Birth - Betsy Buckland 1843 Devon
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thanks DJFRENCH
I will look into that one Plato birth is very close to my one and I know his wife was called Betsey
But I always thought she was a Small reason being in 1900 Census in New york USA Plato Buckland is there with his family and also a Moses Small Nephew aged 19 but actually should be 29 so born 1870 ish I have had proof he was realted to family which ties in that Betsey Plsto wife was his AUnt but the one you have found could be this other Plato I mention who ended up in Marlow Bucks
but thanks for posting
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Do you have this 1891 census - parents rather younger then the 1881 ::)
Treskelly Bridge, St German, Cornwall RG12/1807 folio 32 pg10
Thennant Buckland head mar 41 travelling hawker(gipsy) b. Oxfordshire
Kezia wife 36 b. Devonshire
Edif dau 28 b. Bristol
Nelson son 30 b. St Austell
Thomas son 26 b. America
Henry son 23 b. Bodmin
Betsy dau 21 b. Newquay
Esther dau 18 b. Portsmouth
Moses son 16 b. Torquay
The only one with the same place of birth as the 1881 census is Edif/Edith, but I thought she was a Smith now.
???
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Hi Osprey
Yes I do have that one I didn;t put it in my posting at start because truhfully I didn; t know who they were but also not far away you will find in Tideford another village not far from St Germans Edith Buckland/Smith with her family in same Census year
I did wonder if it was Tenet & Keziah regardless of their birth dates but although childrens names are simliar to my family the eldest son Nelson can;t be my great grandfather because he is also married this one has always puzzled me too
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tiggi,
i notice that the name Tenet varies from this to Thennant but TENNANT seems to have been a popular name but igi have no Tennant Buckland.
Debz
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Tiggi, I wondered about Nelson's marital status on that census and it looks like it might be M, but possibly changed from S?
Edith might just have been visiting?
::)
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Hi
I have been looking for them in 1871 ... They had to be near warwickshire at that stage as Edith marries Wisdom Smith, there!
Tiggi ...was wisdom younger than her , do you know?
BTW ..I have not been getting emails re this thread ... :-\
deb
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I can see where you are going with this Nelson could have been married but he isn;t my Nelson Great Grand dad i am sure even if he lied about his age too would make him 10yrs younger my Nelson was born 1856
but here is another twist !!
Now I know family went to USA in 1886 and as I said Edith has returned by 1891 and her brother Moses Buckland had a son Thomas who married a Dillie Lovell in USA now her parents were called Thennant & Rezia Lovell
I have wondered if this was them ? did they come over with some of Buckland children could be mix of Plato & Tenet children and when asked called themselves buckland ?
Its only my thought nothing proven
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Hi
I have been looking for them in 1871 ... They had to be near warwickshire at that stage as Edith marries Wisdom Smith, there!
Tiggi ...was wisdom younger than her , do you know?
BTW ..I have not been getting emails re this thread ... :-\
deb
hi Debs
Right on Edith marriage certificate she was aged 21 born 1851
Wisdom was aged 22 born 1850 both say living in redditch at time they married in Bromsgrove Worcesthershire in 1872
now although it states Tenet as father Plato his brother was her Witness so I am wondering where her father was at this time ?
It might be idea to look for Plato about that time he could be in 1871 in area hadn;t thought of that
but what is confusing with Edith when she dies in 1891 on her headstone she died aged 37 so that then makes her born 1854 ? so do you believe marriage or headstone ?
I love this family they have made me grey i can tell you lol
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Hi ...still searching 1871
Thiere is this interesting group in Worcestershire ...Smiths and Lovels (sic)...Far too much to transcribed ;D 8)...so here is the ref...
RG10/3065 27 17
The bucklands married the Smiths and the Lovells .... ::)
ADDED Hi Debz and Toni :D
Debzzz we are waiting for you 1000th post ... make it brilliant and do it on here !!! Not like my unbrilliant 1000th where I said 'Brilliant Gagdet" ... I spelt her name wrong as well ....how brilliant was that !? LOL ::)
Hi Toni ...maybe you could keep us up to date with summaries ;D That's if we ever find anything ... ::) ::) :-\
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baptism of Tryphena Buckland 6/3/1852 St Blazey dau of Tennent & Kezia - only entry I can see in the Cornwall indexes around that time.
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Hi Osprey
Yes I have that one I think its Their Daughter I only wish it was a birth then could get a certificate shame
i have tried to find a possible marriage before this time nothing :(
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Nothing coming up for Plato Bukcland in 1871 Worcestershire either so maybe not in area before Edith marriage another blank :(
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Hi
1871 ...found this family .... names and some of the POB make make them possibly related to our Bucklands... especially the elder woman's name
Harwell Berks
Camp Winnoway
Timothy Buckland head mar 78 Tinker b Wilts, lamert?
TRYPHENA " wife mar 66 hawker b Oxfordshire , balscott
Ailce Gr dau 12 b Wilts , Poole
Victoria gr dau 7 b berks, Appleton
Louisa 4 gr dau b Glous Fairford
Rebecca SMITH 22 Tramps , b Berks, Lambourne
Elizabeth " 20 " b Berks
Eley 11 b ?? Nettlebed
Onedipkn? 9 b Berks Sa?Courtney ...there is a Sampford Courtney in devon :-\
William 1 b berks
Elizabeth 6 months b berks
also there are not known Gipsies living at the same camp.
Posting , just in case ...well you never know LOL
deb
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Tiggi
found Timothy Buckland Living "next door' ( ;D) to some Scarrotts in 1851... do you have this and are you interested in this Timothy ?... not sure if you have followed him ...
deb
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Just a savings post. Till later.
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Tiggi
Who is the Plato Buckland , 50 , single b Berks Appleton , travelling with the Williams and Chapman Families in 1891?
RG12/1001 89 37
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Is this your Nelson, or just a coincidence?
1871
RG10/1249; Folio: 75; Page: 11
21 Bartholomew St, Bewbury, Berks
"(a common lodging house)"
....
Thomas Buckland - Lodger - Mar - 27 - Caner - Bristol
Rhoda Buckland - Lodger - Mar -24 - Hawker - London
Nelson Buckland - Lodger - 10 - Banbury, Oxon
Rhoda Buckland - Lodger - 5 - Bristol
Mosella Buckland - Lodger - (?)1 month - Bristol
....
Rambler
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Hi Tiggi
Not sure if at all relevant - but just in case ;)
Caravans, Little Marlow, Buckingham
PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1465 Folio 120 Page 42
Plato BUCKLAND 45 M (Head) Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Ann WILLIAMS 45 F
Owen WILLIAMS 14 M Son
Jobey WILLIAMS 12 M Son
Motey WILLIAMS 10 M Near Henley, Oxford, Son
Nathan WILLIAMS 8 M Oxford, Oxford, Son
Albert WILLIAMS 4 M Reading, Berkshire, Son
Alfred WILLIAMS 13 M Thame, Son (slept from the van)
Mary Maria DORMER U 40 F Beaconsfield, Buckingham, Cook D Serv
Will keep looking
Su
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Sorry! Date above should be 1881
Su
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hi this is the other Plato i was talking about earlier in hunt he lived to be a 103 i think came form marlow bukclas there is a newspaper article about this death mentioning aboyt over 30 descendants but I don;t know if somewhere way back he could be realted to my Tenet
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Whoops wrong one!
Do you have the 1901 census recoed of them all in St Germans?
Su
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It shows him as being born in Oxforshire and his age is 41 wife is Kezie.
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Marlow, Bucks. ( Buckinghamshire) :D
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Sorry if wrong family, but all the names are right ???
BUCKLAND Thennant Head M M 41 Travelling Hawker Gypsy(Notem) Oxfordshire - Not Given
BUCKLAND Kezia Wife M F 36 Devon - Not Given
BUCKLAND Edif Dau S F 28 Gloucestershire - Bristol
BUCKLAND Nelson Son M M 30 Cornwall - St Austell
BUCKLAND Thomas Son S M 25 Overseas - British - U S A
BUCKLAND Henry Son S M 23 Cornwall - Bodmin
BUCKLAND Betsy Dau S F 21 Cornwall - Newquay
BUCKLAND Esther Dau S F 18 Devon - Dartmouth
BUCKLAND Moses Son S M 16 Devon - Torquay
Su ???
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Hi SuzieSmith
This was posted by me earlier in answer to Osprey finding the same Census :
Yes I do have that one I didn;t put it in my posting at start because truhfully I didn; t know who they were but also not far away you will find in Tideford another village not far from St Germans Edith Buckland/Smith with her family in same Census year
I did wonder if it was Tenet & Keziah regardless of their birth dates but although childrens names are simliar to my family the eldest son Nelson can;t be my great grandfather because he is also married this one has always puzzled me too
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Hi Tiggi
Apologies again - new to this, as if u didn't guess!
Find it quite hard to assimilate all the info like our experts on here :-[
One other bit i found was the 1841 census in Netheravon, quite a few Bucklands, in cluding a Keziah, but wther any of them are yours ???
The strange thing is they disappear by the 1851 census, or is they just a moment of my absent mindedness ::)
Thanks for your patience and best of!
Su
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,161450.0.html
You might of found this already but this is the link to Romany's Lost Cornwall Thread.
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suzie could you give me information on 1841 census please i haven;t seen that one if it mentions keziah
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Patience Penfold 1895... New york Times link
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9804E3D71039E033A25757C1A96F9C94649ED7CF
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Hi Tiggi
Thinking about this she would not be a Buckland until she gets married, so probably not 'The Keziah' but may be ancestors somewhere along the line?
Piece: HO107/1176/8 Place: Elstub & Everley -Wiltshire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Netheravon Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 12 Page: 17
Address: Netheravon
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Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BUCKLAND Jeremiah M 50 Edgetool J Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Keziah F 45 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Elizabeth F 15 Ag Lab Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Charles M 13 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Keziah F 12 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Lucy F 8 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Jeremiah M 6 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND William M 2 Wiltshire
Cheers Su
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Think this is the Marlow one.
Plato Buckland + Ann Hazard 23/7/1812
Ellesborough Bucks. M073291
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now the 1910 US census tells us that
Tinnet Buckland was aged 78 (thus making him born circa 1832) he had been married for 49yrs and his marriage took place in 1861 in England
his wife was
Kissar Buckland she was aged 71 (thus making her born circa1839 )
Okay so they married in 1861, are the earlier children therefore Kissar [sic]
or was he married previous
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Tenant Buckland born 1831 England Died 1924 USA aged 93
Keziah do. born 1832 England Died 1913 USA aged 81
so in 1910 we have Keziah aged 71 but in 1913 she is aged 81 ???
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i would suggest you check out the site Romanygenes (google it)
i don't want to be in breach of copyright
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did you consider the Plato Buckland marriage to Ann Hazard 23 July 1812 to be related? (Ellesborough Buckingham)
its pretty likely i think.
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hi well you all have been busy lol
toni where did you get about tenet & keiziah deaths ?
If its from romanygenes its my information which was given to me by a relation in USA so I have to take it as true as they saw the headstones as for the 1900 census yes I agree its confusing with ages and marriage dates but I think they had lied then how old they were so I am still convinced they were at least together before 1861 because I know my great grandfather was born 1856 so if not he was born out of wed lock which isn;t impossible I suppose but not very likely
suziesmith your 1841 census interests me too theres a very big gap between the parents and their eldest child at least 30 yrs knowing that they tended to marry young its very likely there were more children I find that one very interesting but I don;t recongnise any names that would come through family from that census but will keep it to one side you never know something may come up later
toni
The marriage for Plato Buckland & Ann Hazzard 1812 I think he could be a Uncle or something along that line although if tenet was born 1832 its possible to be a father & mother but as its so differcult to get prove of birth for this guy i really don;t know
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toni if you think thats confusing lol about 1910 census you should check out the passenger list for SS carpathia 1904 thats last time family went over to USA and on there Tenet is listed as Nitron in his 70s with Mary as wife also 70s and they are said by ships doctor to be senile !!
But amazingly in 1910 they seem to be very well and keziah is even listed as a fortune teller
I tell you I find this family so confusing I really do lol
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;D Tiggi, please put me out of my misery. Where o where is that article for Plato's funeral......... I've read it before, just can't find it........... argh ;D ;D
It was 19??? something.. If he was 103 as reputed then we would have a thereabouts birth, prior to the 'other' Plato, who could well be son/grandson.
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Plato funeral - I think ???
http://www.sky-tribe.com/Uploads/st_42879_Plato_Buckland_s_Funeral
Su xx
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Hi all
Back again ... will start looking soon ....
Nice to meet you Su ... don't worry we all get confuddled at times especially when the info is coming in from all of us at once. Just remember these were travelling people and more often than not , were not 'found' on census nights ... also a lot of them used aliases or their wive's surnames ...so you might find the whole family under the name Smith as opposed to their own name . They were rather private and tight knit.....
deb :)
added ...geezzz didn't see all the other posts ... no emails either :-\ :-\
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::) Thee Olde Inne Deb.
Su, Its something like that story, but in a newspaper article.
There is a (Misc.... Platos funeral on google) but I can't open it.
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i wil find the story I have it somewhere its in a Cooper page someone did a family tree with loads of census about her cooper family but i am having trouble finding it myself sorry but i will keep trying
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:)
Re Plato Buckland funeral
I believe the site was passin through
and I think not sure she has web space on rootschat
Sue :)
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Christchurch Times - Saturday, March 5th, 1927
I could only access it by pressing on the cache bit underneath
Su
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sue I have tried and keep gettting page unable grrr so annoying because there is another story of a hughs as well that died but i can;t ope pages can you paste your link maybe we can try that
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Caravans, Little Marlow, Buckingham 1881
PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1465 Folio 120 Page 42
Mootey HASARD M 45 M Head, Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Emma W. HASARD 40 F Wife
Cidemente HASARD U 23 F Daur
William HASARD U 18 M Taplow, Buckingham, Son
Sally HASARD 13 F Ascot, Berkshire, Daur
Agnes HASARD 10 F Maidenhead, Berkshire, Daur
Mingo HASARD 8 F Reading, Berkshire, Daur
Ann Pella HASARD 16 F Oxford, Daur
Thomas FLETCHER M 40 M Head, Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Gotilla FLETCHER M 40 F Wife
Frampton FLETCHER U 16 M Son
Vintine FLETCHER U 14 F Reading, Berkshire, Daur
Sarah FLETCHER 12 F Wycombe, Buckingham, Daur
Tommy Dodd FLETCHER 6 M Stokenchurch, Oxford, Son
Nathan FLETCHER 4 M Wood Cut, Oxford, Son
Providence FLETCHER 3 F Cane End, Oxford, Daur
Henry FLETCHER 8 m M Aylesbury, Buckingham, Son
Plato BUCKLAND 45 M (Head) Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Ann WILLIAMS 45 F
Owen WILLIAMS 14 M Son
Jobey WILLIAMS 12 M Son
Motey WILLIAMS 10 M Near Henley, Oxford, Son
Nathan WILLIAMS 8 M Oxford, Oxford, Son
Albert WILLIAMS 4 M Reading, Berkshire, Son
Alfred WILLIAMS 13 M Thame, Son (slept from the van)
Mary Maria DORMER U 40 F Beaconsfield, Buckingham, Cook D Serv
here is a census record for the guy lol
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Everything is going great Tiggi..........there's lots of information coming through.
I love some of the Christian names.......they sound so exotic don't they. :D
Barbara
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Yike - i think that is what u mean - i just typed Palto Buckland on Google and it vcame up about one up from bottom of first page.
romany.rootschat.net/misc.htm - 32k - Cached - Similar pages
Jus pressed on cached.
Btw hello debs not ignoring you jus missed postin
Su
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Hi Su.........welcome to the Scavenger Hunts.......you're doing a fantastic job.
Would you like to put your name down for one of the Hunts??
Barbara
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Hiya Barabara
Sounds interesting but i'm new to this - what is involved?
Su
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I've sent you a PM Su......... ;D
Barbara
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Thanks Barbara
Would love too, will get it together tomorrow afternoon (at Cornish Studies Library all morning.)
Thanks for the invite - the hunt is the best part!
Su
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I'll add your name to the list Su.........welcome aboard....... :D
Barbara
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concerning my Tenant Buckland :
I found this :
Edward Buckland might be older brother to or even father of Abraham Barendon Buckland husband of Diana Smith
Plato & brother Tenant maybe descendants of this Edward & Diana Buckland
Edward is possibly buried from workhouse in 1845 aged 90 at Chinnor ( think thats Oxfordshire) he was father of Diana (Tehanna) who wedded one John Fletcher in 1822 & Grandfater of Cinnamenta Buckland
Tehanna father was known as Ned she married John Fletcher Gypsy at Nether winchendon in 1822
they had a great number of children baptized in Oxon parishes
In my family Tehanna is spelt Tianne and its been passed right down to last generation as a name
Abrahm Barendon Buckland was father of Dimiti Mary Prudence Khebyra
Sometimes children were known as Barendons instead of Buckland
Some of Ned ( Edward)family settled in High Wycombe
I am wondering if Plato in marlow is something to do with family I have thought this before because he travelled with Fletchers
This Marlow Plato was son of William Hazzard & Honor Buckland
Honor the mother was daughter of "Ravishing Billy" Buckland
She had a child by Manuel Buckland then later married William Hazzard
There was also another daughter to "Ravishing Billy" Sinfai who was wife of Manuel Buckland
So Sinfai sister Honor had a child with her husband
He died young and was their1st cousin they had 8 children together then Sinfai married Bill Hazzard 1814 she had 1 child with him
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These names are great Tiggi.
Any Luck with web site?
Su
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suzie just curious but i only just noticed you have Thomas as a surname you are linked with ? yes are you also linked to Crocker or Smiths from Cornwall ?
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no its not working I have tried it maybe having problems but will keep trying its a shame that i can;t find that Cooper site she had loads of things on ther too about alsorts
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:) :)
Hi Tiggi
Just had a look for you
http://romany.rootschat.net
jaxblx (I think its Jackie Blackmans new site on rootschat)
but the server is down..
Think that;s right
:)Colleen
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yes i am sure that it it but like you say site is down will keep trying just want to get the newspaper report about plato burial never mnid
sandy
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Sunday Express - no date
Funeral Pyre for a Gipsy Chief aged 102
Marlow Bucks, Saturday.
The last scenes of the burial of Plato Buckland the 102 year old gipsy took place today in Marlow, where in a chalk pit one mile outside of town, which had for many years been the Buckland encampment land, his van and all possessions were burned according to gipsy rite. Nearly 30 children, grand children and great grandchildren stood around the fire, the old blue van weather beaten, aged, was wheeled into the centre of the camp. One of his sons said the van had been used by the old man for all his married life, nearly 80 years. Towns people came to watch, but did not intrude.
The gipsies stood reverently as a man set a match to the petrol soaked hay, the old van was soon enveloped in flames. Mourners circled the fire, calling out tributes to the dead. The van burned for half an hour. "Like the Old Man!" shouted one gipsy. "Made proper and tough to the end, they don't make them, man or van, like that nowadays." The flames roared higher, the roof collapsed and the sides fell, while the old van stood erect and courageous. Then, amid wailings and groans, the brave old vehicle swayed and tumbled in a fire of sparks to the ground. The embers glowed and died. There remained only the gaunt ashes for the wind to blow away. The ashes of his home and his household
This was by sue from romanygenes very kindly sent it to me so we could read it many thanks
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My Thomas' linked so far with parsons, rogers, richards, lacey , hughes, law barker, kellow, combellack, harris, chinn and stoneman. Padstow Redruth poss Falmouth - just for laughs I am living with a Smith ;D And a good one at that!
I have a few notes from that web site. May I send them as a Pm and how do I do it ???
Su
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right people its late for me i have to go to bed school run in morning thank you all for everything today will be back tomorrow many thanks everyone
sandy
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Hi Su
I am linked with the Richards through the Penfold/orchard clan ... ;D
The Timothy Buckland and his wife tryphena...he has an IGI record with a strange name as a dad ...
I am weeping reading about Plato's funeral ...we have lore that an old ancestor of mine had the same ceremony and was burnt in her vargo along with her belongings as well....
deb :'(
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Colleen ...hi Cous :D ...isn't this fab .... we may never get to the bottom of this ...but we 'know'...they are all connected
deb xxxx
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:) :) :)
Hi Deb
Yep this is great stuff, Sandy has done some amazing research, with the Bucklands, and knocked down a few brick walls,
so here's hoping a few more will topple :) :) :) :)
Colleen :) :)
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Think this is the Marlow one.
Plato Buckland + Ann Hazard 23/7/1812
Ellesborough Bucks. M073291
Do we have the children for this couple?
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Tiggi, the description of Plato's funeral is just awesome. I could see the flames and the people standing around.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
Barbara
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Hi good morning Everyone
Well day 2 lets see what we can find today !!!
I think you are all doing a wonderful job its not easy I have been researching for years and what I have found I am pleased about as I only started with 2 names & one Photo
Its so sad though even when you find someone associated with family it doesn;t always work out There are still those walls
I am proud of my roots and so should we all be no matter where we come from
I have found over the years its mostly because families have secrets something has happen in the past it could be serious or just a family mistake !!
I was saying to someone the other day when they were downing gypsies as only thieves and murders !! well excuse me look to your own first there was more crimes committed by non gypsy people ,
Has a gypsy ever tried to rule a country like a dictator ?
Has a Gypsy caused a War ?
Has a Gypsy ever assasinated A President ?
They don;t even have a country to call their own
All they really ever did was wanted not to live in houses and roam free yes they had some traditions that may have seemed strange to non gypsy people but so have many countries do we persecute them for their beliefs ?
Like most things we only ever hear about the bad people of every race never the ones who do good, today there are gypsies who work as Doctors nurses policemen teachers etc all good people
The one thing I like about the Gypsies is that no matter what there was always a strong family bond and something that lots of non gypsies even today don;t have respect for their elders
We never really had Kings & Queens in the sense like the Royal family , but it was a Title given with respect to those who had a great responiblity to try and keep some sort of stablity within the tribe like the head of a family we all need someone to turn too for advice and guidance
I hope this helps explains alittle about Gypsies
I know of 2 stories which I found very funny and also shows that gypsies do have morals
Thie first one was told to me by an old man with a twinkle in his eye :
When he was young he worked the fields and one day he shared his lunch with another young lad he gave him meat and bread knowing that the meat was hedgehog ( yes they did eat them that is true) but he didn;t tell the young man waiting for him to ask , but he didn;t so the gypsy man said you know what you have eaten ? to his surprise the lad replied yes it was hedgehog !!
He then said and good it was have you anymore !!
The 2nd story proves that gypsies did respect the law of the land I cannot say the name of person but he was known to have a bad temper and did murder a man which he went to prison for many years , but he also had a son this son stole a bottle of lemonade from the milkman delivering in the village, the father was so displeased with his son he marched him to the local police station and turned his own son in.
that may sound very hard , but it was done to teach the lad respect not to steal , if only today parents were as caring , maybe children wouldn;t do things if they had more respect for family morals and parents took a more serious line in bringing them up
Right I will get off my soap box now lolllol
Those that know me we say I have a strong will and even stronger feelings for the Gypsies, but I am not judgemental there is good and bad in all it just depends which road you take to where you will end
ZHAN LE DEVLEVSA TAI SASTIMASA
Go with god and in good Health
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i loved reading the newspaper cutting.... my mascara is gonna run.... it was so moving ... :'(
real true history...wonderful.
Debz
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Hi Tiggi
great speech .... I too am so proud of them!
back to the hunt ... here's my thought...
I posted yesterday..re Timothy Buckland (b Wilts) and Tryphena Buckland (b Oxford , I think) .
I found this on IGI:
TIMOTHY BUCKLEN
chr: 01 apr 1798 Seend, Wiltshire
Parents ~ Barington Bucklen and Charlotte
The Name Barrington ...seems to go with what you posted yesterday "Edward Buckland might be older brother to or even father of Abraham Barendon Buckland husband of Diana Smith
Plato & brother Tenant maybe descendants of this Edward & Diana Buckland"
Children of Barrington and Charlotte ;
DELPHI BUCKLAND ....chr~ 17 MAR 1805 Potterne, Wiltshire
PRUDENCE BUCKLAND chr ~ 15 JUN 1807 Edington, Wiltshire
as i said ...just some thoughts ... :)
Kushti bok
deb
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nothing to do with the hunt..... when i lived in South of France in a small village, we had relatives ,living there, of Manitas de Plata , the famous gypsy guitarist. Rosa, used to sell me her various wares but one day she sold me a beautiful wooden carved rose brooch. I loved it, she was a fab character and she used to sell those really old fashioned bloomers that had a gap from one knee to the other :o she used to push them around in a huge brown pram.
Sorry ...you got me nostalging ;)
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Hi everyone
Its lovely to see stories about any of the families this is what I mean about passing on memories its not just about finding names and dates its wondeful to put something real that shows these people lived and wow did they live colourful lives
If anyone is interested in reading stories try the NEW York Archives you can join for free and there are loads of stories on there about gypsy families
i think this is something else people are not aware of that many families went over sea to USA Canada to escape from the periscution they suffered here in the UK
Gypsies were great to use for cheap labour in the early years but when machinery came of age they became not needed although it also affected many non gypsy people there is much on internet about the riots by people who felt that land owners and of course the worst offender the church were not helping or hearing their pleas that they couldn;t survive, the Church especially was getting rich on their suffering
I have read many stories of families being transported for this which must have been heart breaking for wives & children maybe never to see their father again many never survived the long journies
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sorry people this may sound boring to some but its a subject close to my heart and I do go on sometimes lol
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hey Tiggi :D
You're not 'going on' ....it's all so fascinating ...just wish we could find them for you. Tenet and Kezia had to be near or in Cornwall in 1851, as Tryphena was born St Blazey in 1852. I have had a look through St Blazey ...usually going to the last couple of pages as that is where the Gypsies are written down ... haven't spotted any persons in Tents/caravans.
I wonder if they're camping out with my Penfolds in a field somewhere ? LOL ;D ;D ... I think we should look at Devon and Cornwall for 1851.
deb
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Afternoon all!
Had a quick scout through some 1851 fiche films this morning but no luck.
What you say about peoples attitude to gypsies is very true, but you know what half the problem is?
They are jealous of a free spirit! Something they want as house dwellers but can never attain!
I want to be related! I just can't find the link, in the paperwork - but I feel it in my blood and bones!
Su
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Here is something to explain why gypsies went to USA : its exact from article in Brooklyn Eagle dated 1891
A Reporter asks Questions to a Gypsy Queen :
When asked as to why the Gypsies came to this country in such large numbers a gypsy woman, said The wandering romany finds very little comfort in England at Present and if he pitches his tent on a stormy night he is liable to be ordered off and driven out in the storm with his family even at the dead of night. The Americans are gentleman and in hundreds of ways they show to the poor gypsies a kindly spirit In England the prinicipal livelyhood of gypsies is horse dealing If a gypsy sells a horse to a farmer and the animal is wind broken he chases after the camp within a few hours with a writ, in america the shrewd yankee cheats the Gypsy but we do not complain on the other hand if we sell a wind broken horse to an American he does not sneak off to a magistrate for a writ, he goes like a man and swindles somebody else with the gry ( horse)
This may help explaiin about Gypsy marriages
A Question asked again to Gypsy Queen
There is no happier Cermony than Wedding in a English Gypsy Camp
Everyone turns up when a wedding takes place often gypsies from hundreds of miles around to witness and enjoy the wedding
A Gypsy Twain must be bethrothed for 2 years and during that time the couple is forbidden to enter the vamp in each other;s company or have any clandestine meetings this custom is very strict and weddings have been broken up for breaches of etiquette that would be trival in eyes of society
the wedding festivities are nealy always celbrated in May with everyone attired in colourful costume
When everything is ready the groom in his handsome suit walks slowly down between long lines of Gypsies who wish him a happy wedded life in the romany tongue
At The end of the line of friends a broomstick bars his way and he jumps lightly over where his father or guardian is awaiting him the bride makes her apearence her pretty dress dress and looks are commented on when the bride reaches the broomstick she trips in the most natural manner the happy lover grasps in his arms and as he holds her so they are declared husband & wife
After this its many hours of drinking and feating to the newly weds
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hey...don't apologise...it's important to you and i agree it's all the little every details that give us a bigger picture of how they really lived ;D
it must be marvellous to have accounts in news papers to read.
Debz
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hey Tiggi :D
You're not 'going on' ....it's all so fascinating ...just wish we could find them for you. Tenet and Kezia had to be near or in Cornwall in 1851, as Tryphena was born St Blazey in 1852. I have had a look through St Blazey ...usually going to the last couple of pages as that is where the Gypsies are written down ... haven't spotted any persons in Tents/caravans.
I wonder if they're camping out with my Penfolds in a field somewhere ? LOL ;D ;D ... I think we should look at Devon and Cornwall for 1851.
deb
LOLLOL Debs you could be right they maybe anywhere
IIlogan was a popular stopping place
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the gypsy weddings in the south of france were very similar and they were fascinating to see and i loved their ceremonies
Debz
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Here is a Paper Report dated 1890 Salt Lake Utah (which confirms that My family traveled across in 1886)
I was so lucky to be sent this one :
Titled life in a Gypsy Camp
GRP [Ch] ST [NJ] PLC [Fort Lee]
AB [ Camped on the wooded height back of Fort Lee, just across the river from New York City, It is a novel experience while walking along the Palisades to come suddenly upon the white tents and covered wagons. Views from the Palisades magnificent see Hudson for miles up and down, metropolis, sail-flecked waters of the sound, rising slopes of Long Island. On a Sunday place becomes picnic ground fro toilers (workers) from New York. Steamers and ferryboats set down their human freights at the little dock all day. Dancing pavilions, refreshment booths, merry-go-rounds well patronized.
It is natural that lovers should find way to gypsy’s camp, have fortunes told. For rest of week gypsies left pretty much to selves, visit camp Monday and you will find the women washing, dogs and babies rolling on grass, men strolling about grove with short pipes in teeth, eye on horses, men have little to say to strangers, When a boy I knew a Romany named Robert Wells born 1800. I regarded him with admiration, though I thought no doubt he was a rascal, his memory served to introduce me to the Fort Lee gypsies. When they learned I knew old Bob now 90, I was welcomed at once, These Gypsies had been in USA only 4 years The camp consisted of Tenet Buckland [Bucklin] his wife their 5 sons and families in all some group of size 30 persons, with 7 horses dogs a green parrot and excellent road outfit. The youngest son bears name of Plater Buckland probably after his remote ancestor [Plato Buckland] of whom the song relates:
Two Romany fellows were banished afar
Far away over the dark rolling sea
Lasho for robbing
And Plato for fobbing
The purse of a lady as great as could be
And when they came to the far -away land
The land that is over the dark rolling sea
One came to the Halter
But one at the altar
Soon married a lady as fair as could be
Would you like to know who the lady was?
Twas the lady whose purse he had stolen D'ye see?
For the chap had an eye
Black, witch-like and sly
And she followed him over the dark rolling sea.
Buckland is a man of more than ordinary intelligence and talks freely if you win his confidence, I asked if fortune telling is as profitable as before, No he responded with a twinkle , people know too much these days, We are all musicians, we entertain crowds with fiddle, can make $10-20 on a Sunday.
A gypsy can do a little of everything can shoe a horse, doctor a cow, mend a kettle, make baskets, clean a clock, snare birds and rabbits, sell a horse. Men and Women wear good clothes; there's strips of carpet and abundance of bedding in tents, food wholesome, cooking utensils clean, wagons are marvels of strength and convenience. Wagon body widens sufficiently above wheels to admit crossway's of a bunk with springs and mattress. Sleeping compartment in rear, shut off by curtains, forward are seats and lockers surrounding an open space, where in stormy weather a meal can be cooked and eaten in comfort. No people are neater and cleaner in many things than the gypsies.
Always wash table clothes in separate vessels, women careful not to let skirt of dress touch a pan containing food, since it would afterward to be considered unfit for consumption, For months after childbirth the mother is debarred from preparing food, Burial; we bury our dead in a cemetery wherever we happen to be, they are always kind to them. No gypsy would have his dead cremated. Garments of deceased generally burned, family fast, a mother in some instances never eats again the favorite dishes of her son. Religion: You will find gypsies who are Roman Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, Heathens,
Marriage: Intermarriages with non Gypsies do and always will occur while human passions last. But we have our family pride and the Romany whose blood is pure is honored. I had my fortune told before Leaving.
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Hope you don't mind me butting in and it might not be your family, but going back to message 11 I can confirm Missella Buckland daughter of George and Sarah Buckland gypsies of Milton and Brickhill was baptised at Bloxham Oxfordshire on 24/2/1833
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Right now if Keziah or Kagar as she sometimes was called was a Jeffery or Jeffs maybe we should look in that direction
I know that a thomas Jeffery born abt 1829 Devonshire married a Ganey or Gainey Wells ( wish i knew what variant for Ganey was)
Thomas we think then married a Amelia Stanley ( nk date)
They went to USA with her parents Levi & matilda Stanley i know both died in 1877 USA
Now they had a son Mark Jeffery born 1847 Devonshire who first married Ganey or Gainey Stanley, then aged 40 he remarried to Esther Buckland who was daughter of Tenet & Keziah Buckland
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JAYWIT butt away as much as you like all are welcome to make any comments or suggestions if it helps me find out anything new :)
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The only other Buckland entry I can see in Bloxham PR's that you may want to make a note of is that banns were read on 23rd and 30th Aug and 6th Sept 1846 for a marriage between Sydney Smith and Prudence Buckland both travelling gypsies. It doesn't say where the marriage took place. It looks like that branch came back to that area from time to time.
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Could this be Thomas Jeffery and family in 1851? I realise the birthplaces don't fit, but "Jane' could be Ganey, and Mark is the right age.
HO107/1903; Folio: 315; Page: 20
"In a tent", Lameath, Cornwall
Thomas Jeffry - Head - 23 - Basket Maker & Tin Worker - Warwickshire
Jane Jeffry - Wife - 23 - Weymouth, Dorset
Mark Jeffry - Son - 5 - Chard, Somerset
Lucy Jeffry - Dau - 3 - Bridport, Dorset
Benjamin Jeffry - Son - 1 - Devon
Henry Jeffry - Bro - 15 - Basket Maker - Voyes, Wiltshire
There's a note added against the entry: "Please to excuse this error. Egyptians." No idea what the "error" is!
Rambler
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Could this be Thomas Jeffery and family in 1851? I realise the birthplaces don't fit, but "Jane' could be Ganey, and Mark is the right age.
HO107/1903; Folio: 315; Page: 20
"In a tent", Lameath, Cornwall
Thomas Jeffry - Head - 23 - Basket Maker & Tin Worker - Warwickshire
Jane Jeffry - Wife - 23 - Weymouth, Dorset
wow you may have found thomas for sure and saying error was eypgtians would mean they were concerned gypsies
Mark Jeffry - Son - 5 - Chard, Somerset
Lucy Jeffry - Dau - 3 - Bridport, Dorset
Benjamin Jeffry - Son - 1 - Devon
Henry Jeffry - Bro - 15 - Basket Maker - Voyes, Wiltshire
There's a note added against the entry: "Please to excuse this error. Egyptians." No idea what the "error" is!
Rambler
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I think ganey could be known as jane that was a great find
Rambler we thought there was another brother wiliam but although he isn;t mentioned on that census i note family were in devon for benjamin birth
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The only other Buckland entry I can see in Bloxham PR's that you may want to make a note of is that banns were read on 23rd and 30th Aug and 6th Sept 1846 for a marriage between Sydney Smith and Prudence Buckland both travelling gypsies. It doesn't say where the marriage took place. It looks like that branch came back to that area from time to time.
Hi If you scroll back this could be something to do with Abraham Barendon Buckland he had a daughter Prudence and Iknow my family are very much connected to Smith so thank you for this find
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You mite like to browse this:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/romany_roots/
Su
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Hi Tiggi,
Been looking abouts for something other than Marlow. What is it that makes the Plato of Marlow not the brother of Tenet and or Thomas :-\
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Some more Bucklands with familiar names....
1891 census
RG12/958; Folio 102; Page 13
Newnham Common, Basingstoke
Thomas BUCKLAND - Head - 31 - Tin man - Tadley, Hants
Britania BUCKLAND - Wife - 32 - Lasham, Hants
Penelope BUCKLAND - Dau - 10 - Scholar - Vernham, Hants
Nelson BUCKLAND - Son - 2 - Newnham, Hants
Trifenie BUCKLAND - Dau - 1 - Newnham, Hants
Mark VINCE - Lodger - 26 - Gen Labourer - Weston Patrick, Hants
Henry BUCKLAND - Head - 24 - Hawker - Tadley, Hants
Freedom BUCKLAND - Wife - 22 - Pamber, Hants
Richard BUCKLAND - Son - 3 - Pamber, Hants
According to a user-submitted IGI entry, Thomas BUCKLAND m. Britannia STOKES, 6 Jan 1881, Tadley. (Thomas s/o Jabez BUCKLAND and Rebecca.)
They ought to fit in somewhere.... ;)
Rambler
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Working backwards - Thomas and Henry at home with their parents on the 1871 census:
RG10/1246; Folio: 147; Page: 10
Tadley, Hants
Jabez BUCKLAND - Head - ?? - Tinman & Tinker - Sutton, Berks
Rebeca BUCKLAND - Wife - 36 - Stock Cross, Berks
Mary Ann BUCKLAND - Dau - 15 - Berks
Freedom BUCKLAND - Dau - 12 - Tadley, Hants
Thomas BUCKLAND - Son - 10 - Tadley, Hants
John BUCKLAND - Son - 7 - Tadley, Hants
Eliza BUCKLAND - Dau - 6 - Tadley, Hants
Henry BUCKLAND - Son - 5 - Tadley, Hants
Richard BUCKLAND - Son - 2 mo - Tadley, Hants
....and Jabez in 1851 with his parents:
HO107/1720; Folio: 637; Page: 28
Travellers' Carts, Bledlow Ridge, Aylesbury
Timothy BUCKLAND - Head - (?)40 - Traveller Tinman - Gt Missenden, Berks
Penelope BUCKLAND - Wife - 39 - Hendron, Berks
Jabez BUCKLAND - Son - 17 - Hawker - Sutton, Berks
Mary BUCKLAND - Dau - 15 - High Wycombe, Berks
Freedom BUCKLAND - Dau - 14 - High Wycombe, Berks
Liberty BUCKLAND - Son - 9 - Basildon, Berks
Trifena BUCKLAND - Dau - 7 - Sanderton, Bucks
Sarah BUCKLAND - Dau - 5 - Oxon
Richard BUCKLAND - Son - 2 - Basildon, Berks
Henry BUCKLAND - Son - 3 wks - Basildon, Berks
Rambler
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Hi Tiggi,
Been looking abouts for something other than Marlow. What is it that makes the Plato of Marlow not the brother of Tenet and or Thomas :-\
I truthfully don;t know if he is related or not like most families you could be looking at another branch or possible uncle i don;t know sorry
The only thing I know for sure my Tenet had a brother Plato yes but he went nearly everywhere with him he was in USA in 1900
and again on Ship going back in 1904 with his brother Tenet Although I have not found out where he died USA or England
But basically I know also there isn;t any connection I know of to the Williams side who the Plato in Marlow was living with and looks like had children with
I would say its more likely he could be a Uncle or another branch of family its a very large family I can;t just accept if someone called /Buckland they are my relations not being funny I do need to make sure I have proof before saying that;s one of mine lol
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did you consider the Plato Buckland marriage to Ann Hazard 23 July 1812 to be related? (Ellesborough Buckingham)
its pretty likely i think.
Caravans, Little Marlow, Buckingham 1881
PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1465 Folio 120 Page 42
Mootey HASARD M 45 M Head, Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Emma W. HASARD 40 F Wife
Cidemente HASARD U 23 F Daur
William HASARD U 18 M Taplow, Buckingham, Son
Sally HASARD 13 F Ascot, Berkshire, Daur
Agnes HASARD 10 F Maidenhead, Berkshire, Daur
Mingo HASARD 8 F Reading, Berkshire, Daur
Ann Pella HASARD 16 F Oxford, Daur
Thomas FLETCHER M 40 M Head, Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Gotilla FLETCHER M 40 F Wife
Frampton FLETCHER U 16 M Son
Vintine FLETCHER U 14 F Reading, Berkshire, Daur
Sarah FLETCHER 12 F Wycombe, Buckingham, Daur
Tommy Dodd FLETCHER 6 M Stokenchurch, Oxford, Son
Nathan FLETCHER 4 M Wood Cut, Oxford, Son
Providence FLETCHER 3 F Cane End, Oxford, Daur
Henry FLETCHER 8 m M Aylesbury, Buckingham, Son
Plato BUCKLAND 45 M (Head) Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Ann WILLIAMS 45 F
Owen WILLIAMS 14 M Son
Jobey WILLIAMS 12 M Son
Motey WILLIAMS 10 M Near Henley, Oxford, Son
Nathan WILLIAMS 8 M Oxford, Oxford, Son
Albert WILLIAMS 4 M Reading, Berkshire, Son
Alfred WILLIAMS 13 M Thame, Son (slept from the van)
Mary Maria DORMER U 40 F Beaconsfield, Buckingham, Cook D Serv
here is a census record for the guy lol
even more likely now.
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Hi toni
I am not sure where I read this But I think Plato in Marlow may have have married the Ann Hazard woman, but he only lived with Ann Williams they are his children by her that I agree but that;s why they are called Williams not Buckland
remember back then it was expensive to get divorce so they just took another wife living together and either waited until spouse died before marriage or sometimes it was accepted by the tribe they were couple they never married offically never needed too
I have another relation who is researching Fletcher family linked to Smith family will see what they think
I agree there has to be a link somewhere to this family but maybe its way back I don;t think Plato in Marlow is directly linked to my Tenet & Plato like brother or Father ( although have no proof)
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Toni
I just looked again at newspaper report I put on earlier about Tenet in USA 1890
"The youngest son bears name of Plater Buckland probably after his remote ancestor [Plato Buckland] of whom the song relates"
Tenet not only had a brother called Plato b 1839 married Eliza Small that I know, many of the children in family were named Plato
Also when they went to USA the ones who stayed there called by this name changed it to Clayton
Now going by this I think yes I have to agree Plato in Marlow must be a relation because I know fletchers are related to Buckland's too
So could it be that Plato in Marlow is maybe a Uncle or distant cousin
I have this too which would confirm about Edward ( Ned ) Buckland who the experts say was a relation of Tenet & plato my family :
EDWARD BUCKLAND & DIANA SMITH
The family may have descended from an Edward Buckland, married to a Diana Smith; he was buried in the grounds of workhouse in 1845 aged 90 (born 1755) at Chinnor Oxfordshire
He had a daughter Tehanna & son Isaac, possibly more children, they traveled about Oxon, Oxfordshire and could have as many as 30 descendants attached to them.
Tehanna ( Tianne or Tianna)is a name that has been passed down through my own family, the last person to be given the name was my own father's eldest sister. This leads me to believe there has to be a connection somewhere as it was common practice by Gypsies to use the same names through family.
I was sent this: by a very good friend who has a site called ROMANYGENES
ISAAC BUCKLAND at Hawridge Bucks on Oct 24th 1831
"The procession to church being headed by four men playing violins and four girls beating Tambourines: and the witnesses to the wedding were Stephen and Mable Fletcher and Katherine Hearn, whose name possibly recurs in the entry "Hy. Illegitimate son of” Cathe Hearn, baptized at Marsh Ealdon in 1811.Isaac is no doubt
The Isaac Buckland son of Edward and Dianna Buckland, who was baptized at Gorsington? Oxon, and this couple had many other children baptized here and there in Oxfordshire, but curiously they were never described as gypsies or travelers, and are once or twice put down as labourer's .The presence of the Fletcher's at the wedding suggests, that Tehanna daughter of old (Ned) Edward Buckland, some of whose family settled at High Wwycombe who married John Fletcher at Nether Winchendon, was identical with Isaac oldest sister Dianna, baptized at Aston? Rowant? in 1785.though on that occasion again they behaved in a more gypsy way than one would have expected, as the wedding breakfast was held in an adjacent lane and was served up on solid silver plate and rare old china ,the father being "head of a tribe of gypsies" If this Ned ( Edward )is identical
With an Edward Buckland buried at Chinnor in 1845 aged 90, which is doubtful, Isaac would have been a nephew of Doctor Buckland, who married Solomon Hearn's sister Mary, but unfortunately Isaac died 3 years after his marriage at Great Rolllright, In Chiltern Oxfordshire and no memory of him seems to survive in the neighborhood
In 1822 I found this: confirms above statement of marriage:
At lower Winchendon Buckinghamshire by Rev T Hayton , John Fletcher was wed to Teannah Buckland daughter of Edward Buckland, head of a tribe of Gypsies, who have long frequented this part of Buckinghamshire
After the ceremony the party retired to a lane adjoining the village where they part took of an excellent dinner served partly on solid plate & part china.
The novelty of such a Banquet attracted a great number of respectable spectators.
ABRAHAM BAREDON BUCKLAND
Abraham Baredon Buckland born towards end of 18th century married Eleanor Smith she was daughter of Jonas & Constant Smith baptized in 1796 at Seend
Children were Dimiti & Mary, Prudence, I think this is a son or has been suggested a brother of Edward & Diana Buckland, which again makes me think that Tenant & Plato could well be his descendants or even grandchildren.
In my researching many people have sent me snippets they have found and it’s like a puzzle putting the pieces together, hopefully it will one day give me a clearer picture of my Family.
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Hi all
You probably already have this - but I came across a 'Plato Buckland'
in the World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 whilst chasing something else this morning.
Plato Buckland Oneida
Not sure if of interest ???
Su
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it would be helpful if we could see it drawn out in a tree! but i lack the technology and brambletye is ill with flu (and haven't seen davidpinkney for a while i hope he is well)
do you have tree drawn up? (or does Deb)
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morning folks ... :)
I have just read Tiggi's info .... so I want to bring this up again ...
I posted yesterday..re Timothy Buckland (b Wilts) and Tryphena Buckland (b Oxford , I think) .
I found this on IGI:
TIMOTHY BUCKLEN
chr: 01 apr 1798 Seend, Wiltshire
Parents ~ Barington Bucklen and Charlotte
The Name Barrington ...seems to go with what you posted yesterday "Edward Buckland might be older brother to or even father of Abraham Barendon Buckland husband of Diana Smith
Plato & brother Tenant maybe descendants of this Edward & Diana Buckland"
Children of Barrington and Charlotte ;
DELPHI BUCKLAND ....chr~ 17 MAR 1805 Potterne, Wiltshire
PRUDENCE BUCKLAND chr ~ 15 JUN 1807 Edington, Wiltshire
Kushti bok
deb
I noticed The names of Abrahams children ... Dimiti & Mary, Prudence and a mention of Doctor Buckland ....
On IGI there is this baptism;
TIMOTHY TURNIT BUCKLAND chr; 19 OCT 1806 Great Missenden, Buckingham
born - 21 SEP 1806
parents : Doctor Buckland and Mary
could the Turnit middle name actually be someone spelling Tennet/Tenet? I also think this is the christening of Timothy who married Penelope ... Manchester Rambler found them yesterday .
I def think Timothy and Prudence fit somewhere ...I know the Timothy = prudence is not the above christened Timothy ... but Timothy is the s/o Doctor Buckland ...so maybe Timothy is a family name too...
I hope I am making sense.
need coffee ... early morning here
deb
Hey ..Toni :) ... No I don't have a tree ...arrgghhh
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Re reading the post I just did It says Tehanna Buckland wed 1822 john fletcher
Now I am now sure but if Isaac her brother wed in 1831 could it be possible he is my Tenet father ? If he was born abt 1831 although what throws this out is as it says Isaac died 3 years after marriage making that 1836 then Tenet brother Plato born 1839 ( unless he lied about his date of birth which is possible) would not be Isaac son,
I am just wondering if this is what could have happened
Isaac Buckland ( only wish I Knew who is bride was but would guess it was a Fletcher ) if he died so early would explain then why no one knows about my Tenet parents could this be them I wonder after Isaac died was this why Tenet & Plato moved away and came to Cornwall its like they split form main branch of family
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Tehanna / Tennant sound similar obvs. can't be the same person as Tenhanna wed a male and Tennant was a male but would be likely she was named after her father ?
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Hi Debs
Now interesting point you brought up there about Timothy Buckland married to Penelope
In 1851 Census Bledlow Buckinghamshire
we have
Timothey Buckland 44 b 1807 Grt Missendon Bucks
Penelope 39 b 1812 Hendon Berks
James( Jabez) 17 b 1834 Sutton Berks
Freedom ( F) 14 b 1837 Bucks
Mary 15 b 1836 Bucks
Liberty ( M) 9 b 1842 Basildon Berks
Tryphena 7 b 1844 Bucks
Sarah 5 b 1846 Oxford
but with them family of Scarritt
Shadrack 26 b 1825 Ramsden Oxford
Maria 27 b 1824
Shadrack 6 b 1845
Tryphena 1 b 1850
Charlotte loveridge b 1834 ( servant)
now where i am gonig with this
James Smith who was father of my Great gran Betsey Smith did marry a Elizabeth ( eliza) Scarrett
There are 2 points of interest here I have always thought this Timothy ties in to my lots somewhere and so do Scarritt
also note that both families use name Tryphena
Which I know Tenet 1st child was called
so going by that there has to be al ink don;t you think
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Hi
1871 ...found this family .... names and some of the POB make make them possibly related to our Bucklands... especially the elder woman's name
Harwell Berks
Camp Winnoway
Timothy Buckland head mar 78 Tinker b Wilts, lamert?
TRYPHENA " wife mar 66 hawker b Oxfordshire , balscott
Ailce Gr dau 12 b Wilts , Poole
Victoria gr dau 7 b berks, Appleton
Louisa 4 gr dau b Glous Fairford
Rebecca SMITH 22 Tramps , b Berks, Lambourne
Elizabeth " 20 " b Berks
Eley 11 b ?? Nettlebed
Onedipkn? 9 b Berks Sa?Courtney ...there is a Sampford Courtney in devon :-\
William 1 b berks
Elizabeth 6 months b berks
also there are not known Gipsies living at the same camp.
Posting , just in case ...well you never know LOL
deb
I think this is the above Timothy's baptism ..see previous post ...
I found this on IGI:
TIMOTHY BUCKLEN
chr: 01 apr 1798 Seend, Wiltshire
Parents ~ Barington Bucklen and Charlotte
also in the newspaper clipping from the USA they gave the name BUCKLIN as an alternative...
also the BARRINGTON name could =
"Edward Buckland might be older brother to or even father of Abraham Barendon Buckland husband of Diana Smith
Barrington = barendon
am I making sense ... :-\ ::) ;D
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i'm geussing you have this:~
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Internet gave up on me last night, so I didn't have time to post the 1841 census for Jabez (son of Timothy), which shows him with Doctor and Mary.
HO107/42; Folio: 7; Page: 10
Gt Missenden, Bucks
Doctor BUCKLAND - 70 - Labourer
Ann BUCKLAND - 64 - Lacemaker
Thos BUCKLAND - 20 - [...]
Wm BUCKLAND - 23 - [...]
Jabez BUCKLAND - 18 - [...]
(All born in county.)
Are Thomas and William children or grandchildren?
Rambler
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Tehanna is variant of Diana after her mother Diana Smith
It gets changed down through years to tiannie or Tianna or even Annie
Timothy Buckland is middle name was Turnuper or Turnup ( I think it refers to Turnip the vegetable)
he was son of Timothy "Doctor" Buckland & Mary Hearn
now the reference to "doctor" wasn;t because he was a trained Doctor by todays standards but more like a very talented Vet
Barendon Buckland son Dimiti married Lavinia ( Loli )Smith they were 1st cousins prior to her marriage she had 3 daughters with a man called White
Brendon Buckland daughter Prudence married Sidnal Smith died at Charlsbury without issue ( no kids)
another interesting point I have found there was a woman called cinamenta or Senimenta possible sister of Prvidence & Khebyra parents died young grand parents might be Edward & diana
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Tiggi
found Timothy Buckland Living "next door' ( ;D) to some Scarrotts in 1851... do you have this and are you interested in this Timothy ?... not sure if you have followed him ...
deb
I think there has to be a link ..especially if the are next to the SCARROTTS ( hee hee ...my family coming into this now ;D )
deb
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did you know there was a Keziah Buckland born 01 April 1829 at Netheravon Wilts. and christened 05 April same year
(this is not the wife of Tenet as she was think was Keziah Jeffs)
anyway this Keziahs father was Jeremiah b. Sep 1794
Netheravon, Wilts died May 1848 Netheravon and her mother was Keziah unknown 1795-1855
i amnot sure they are connected as they didnt like to travel! ;D
but working back on the Buckland line.
Jeremiah father was also Jeremiah b. May 1762
Netheravon, M: 24 Nov 1780 Netheravon (to Ann Harris b. circa 1763 D: Dec 1796 Netheravon,) D: 15 Dec 1822 Netheravon
this line (Bucklands) goes back to circa 1600 if you want the details let me know
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so is TIMOTHY TURNIT BUCKLAND chr; 19 OCT 1806 Great Missenden, Buckingham
born - 21 SEP 1806
parents : Doctor Buckland and Mary
Is he Timothy TURNIP ?
I think it sounds more like TINIT/TENET ...
deb :-\
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This family just goes on and on lolllol
I am still thinking that Tenet & plato could be sons of Isaac Buckland & unknown possible Fletcher wife it makes sense if Isaac died about 1836 my tent was born 1831 when they married maybe then Plato was born 1836 did his mother die in childbirth ?
i know in 1857 when he goes with brother Tenet to USA he says he was born 1839 aged 18 but what if he lied to protect himself he would have been only 15 maybe he thought he would not be allowed to stay if he told his real age and i Know sometimes people have thought he was Tenet son
now if there parents died could it be then they were raised about this Edward & Diana who were actually their grandparents ? is this making any sense ?
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here;s another interesting find Kuri Buckland daughter of a Teni Buckland ( Tenet could name) and Aunt To Abraham ( could this be Barendon )Buckland was wife of Jack Hicks both Kuri & Jack died young
1841 Census England St Stephen HO/107/135 Book12 folio11 p42
Thomas Stanley 30 b 1810 NK,
Betsey 25 b 1816 NK,
Trinity 8 b 1833 NK,
William 5 b 1836 NK,
Cornelius Hicks 12 b 1829 NK
now in 1857 passenger list Thomas Stanley is going across with his family Trinity is married to a Hugh Hicks and Cornelius is married to a mary ( elizabeth ) stanley she is sister to Levi Stanley famous gypsy in USA descendant of Owen & Harriet on same passenger list is my family tenet & palto
not trying to confuse you all but just trying to explain lots of surnames link into mine and Stanley side is my Grandmothers family
Have you all got headache yet lol i know I have
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forgot to add Kuri & Jack Hicks had 2 children could this be Hugh & Cornelius ?
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there is this
IGI
Isaac BUCKLAND = Salome HEARNE
24 OCT 1831 Hawridge, Buckingham
Why do you think he married a Fletcher?
deb
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there is this
IGI
Isaac BUCKLAND = Salome HEARNE
24 OCT 1831 Hawridge, Buckingham
Why do you think he married a Fletcher?
wow Debs thank you never seen that one only reason I thought maybe a fletcher was going by witness it mentioned Fletcher but looks like you found it
deb
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eeekkk Toni ...I am sure they must ...
Tiggi ....How are the Fletchers related again?
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Hi toni
well its a possile that Salome was Isaac wife and as we don;t know when she died could be her
she would by this record be born 1808 so if she married in 1831 aged 23 sounds very possible
The other one Sally I would think is in St Thomas Devonshire ?
I don;t recongnise that one will add it to my list
Thank you
Only think now thou this blows out my idea that Isaac & salome were Tenet & plato parents !!!
Jees i wish we could find one of their darn births I would get the certicifate to prove parents then
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eeekkk Toni ...I am sure they must ...
Tiggi ....How are the Fletchers related again?
the fletchers go back to Tehanna buckland daughter of Edward Buckland & Diana Smith their daughter she married a John fletcher in 1822
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so records say she was sister to Isaac Buckland also son of edward & diana
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Tiggi if Plato & Tenet were born prior to Sept. 1837 there won't be any birth certs.
have you triend the non-conformist site?
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/
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Only birth I can find for a PLato born 1839 oct/Nov/Dec Uppingham Leciestershire Northamptonshire Rutland
I just don;t know if its worth spending money to get this one ?
but may have too just to rule it out
Its the area puts me off but then I don;t know where he was born ?
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does this make him the right age Tiggi?
otherwise i would agree its a waste of money.
and does he have the name Plato Buckland? (or sound alikeys?)
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Hi toni
well yes to both your questions going by passenger list 1856/7 SS Kangaroo he says born 1839 aged 18 Plato Buckland
But no place of Birth given so could it be him ?
The Marlow Plato was born on one census 1836 then another later census 1841 so it could rule him out but just not sure
Can anyone find the marriage for me of Plato Buckland & eliza Small ? abt 1860 ?
Maybe if i can get that one might help
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found this interesting group in 1841 .... The names are all familiar .. the transcription not so good ...
Huntingdonshire
Kimbolton
Tents
Henry Fletcher 35 Gipsies N
Catherine 35 N
Semantina 15 N
Charles 13 N
Sally 10 N
Dianna 4 N
Bansy 1 N
Tent 2
Noel Loveridge 25 Gypsies N
Maria 20 N
tent 3
John Bull 20 Gipsies N
Silvyan 20 N
Ezra 2 N
tent 4
William SMITh 35 Gipsies Y
Salomi 30 N
William 13 Y
Joseph 4 Y
Chrisana 11Y
Aaron 4 Y
Johnathan 15 Y
here the Fletchers and the Smiths are together ... not sure if they have anything to do with yours ?
Also note the names Dianna and Salomi :-\
deb
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looking for Tenet birth but found these
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that Plato keeps popping up doesn't he
maybe hes tryign to tell you something :-\
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Dianna and Salomi :-\
deb
dinner & Salami ;D
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not on FreeBMD (Marriage of Plato & Eliza) should i be saying that ???
if we knew where we could look at the OPC sites
or did i see it on Romanygenes
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found this interesting group in 1841 .... The names are all familiar .. the transcription not so good ...
Huntingdonshire
Kimbolton
Tents
Henry Fletcher 35 Gipsies N
Catherine 35 N
Semantina 15 N
Charles 13 N
Sally 10 N
Dianna 4 N
Bansy 1 N
Tent 2
Noel Loveridge 25 Gypsies N
Maria 20 N
tent 3
John Bull 20 Gipsies N
Silvyan 20 N
Ezra 2 N
tent 4
William SMITh 35 Gipsies Y
Salomi 30 N
William 13 Y
Joseph 4 Y
Chrisana 11Y
Aaron 4 Y
Johnathan 15 Y
here the Fletchers and the Smiths are together ... not sure if they have anything to do with yours ?
Also note the names Dianna and Salomi :-\
deb
Its possible that Salome could be Isaac Buckland wife if he died young
But then 1st child b 1828 is out
But then it just confirms that maybe Tenet & plato weren;t Isaac & salome children :(
But good find Debs Thanks
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someone sent me a marriage in USA of Plato & Eliza Small about 1860 but it wasn;t actual marriage it was a notice of Licence so we think they came back to UK and married about 1860 possible in Staines Middlesx will try and find the email
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See we have this martriage too
Plato Buckland 1841 Bedford married Betsey Buckland 1843 Devon in 1860 Radnage Buckinghamshire
who are they ?
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Cannot find Plato's marriage ...he has to be there somwhere ...
I did find this ... maybe another Buckland Hearn marriage
Isaac Buckland = Esther Fearn ... could it be Hearn?
sept 1856 Medway , kent
I found on one page these 2 male names
vol 2c p 849, Easthampstead, bershire
1858 ... arrghhh forgot the quarter
General Buckland and Nelson Cooper
... both obviously from the Gypsy families ...maybe having a great celebration on the same day ...what I would give to have been there .
here's a thought Maybe General = Plato LOL ::)
deb ...needing more coffee ;D
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Wayhay found it
Ohio Marriages, 1803-1900 Ohio Marriages, 1803-1900
Name: BUCKLAND, PLATO
Spouse: SMALL, ELIZABETH
Marriage Date: 15 May 1860
County: Wayne
State: OH
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someone sent me a marriage in USA of Plato & Eliza Small about 1860 but it wasn;t actual marriage it was a notice of Licence so we think they came back to UK and married about 1860 possible in Staines Middlesx will try and find the email
because the licence was issued doesn't necessarily ment hey acutally married i know a couple where banns were read three times (several years apart) before they married a rather tempestuos relationship. if you ask me!
the Plato Buckland that married in Staines m. Q4 1889 to either Alice Harris or Rose Elizabeth Wise
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do these Smalls belong to Deb also?
thats why ic ouldn't find it cos i was looking in England!
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sorry toni
But it could be it wasn't a marriage Ican;t remeber why but when i checked it out it said about Licence and I thought then did it mean they married or just bought a licence ?
But saying that I ahve no idea how to get the darn certificate as its in USa and I am in Uk ? any ideas anyone
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Its very possible they do belong to Debs yes
If she knows of this family
Moses Small married Caroline Penfold
They had sons Joshua Small married Patience Orchard
Mose Small married Keziah Buckland
Keziah was daughter of Plato Buckland & Elizabeth Small
He went to USA
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Its very possible they do belong to Debs yes
If she knows of this family
Moses Small married Caroline Penfold
They had sons Joshua Small married Patience Orchard
Mose Small married Keziah Buckland
Keziah was daughter of Plato Buckland & Elizabeth Small
He went to USA
i thought Keziah was Keziah Jeffs ???
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no its ok you are right Keziah Jeffs married Tenet Buckland plato brother
this one listed to Moses Small was daughter of Plato Buckland Tenet brother
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LOL LOL
Blimey ...now it's getting confusing again...I think Patience Orchard belongs somewhere to me as The Orchards and Penfolds intermarried ....
I am glad you found that marriage , Tiggi ... I was going insane looking for it ...
deb ;D
added ... i don't have access to USA records ...only UK :-\
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Hi Debs
I can access either but trying not to confuse the issue here I think somewhere you will connect to Caroline & patience most likely
This is biggest problem with all these families they are so intermarried you can't search one without the other
As you are in USa would you know how I couild getthat marriage certicifate ?
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the Plato Buckland that married in Staines m. Q4 1889 to either Alice Harris or Rose Elizabeth Wise
Looks like it was Rose:
1891 census
RG12/1017; Folio 98; Page 23
"Village", Stanwell, Uxbridge
Plato BUCKLAND - Head - 27 - Laborer Farm - Longford, Middx
Rose BUCKLAND - Wife - 22 - Surrey
Rose BUCKLAND - Dau - 1 mo - Stanwell, Middx
Rambler
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Think this is the Marlow one.
Plato Buckland + Ann Hazard 23/7/1812
Ellesborough Bucks. M073291
If this Plato and Ann married in 1812. He'd be 85/90 yrs old in 1881 census... ???
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Timothy Buckland is middle name was Turnuper or Turnup ( I think it refers to Turnip the vegetable)
Was he born in Turnip End.. Risborough. Birthplace of Williams, Lacey families.etc.
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Hi
in 1851; Kilmersdon, Somerset
Hatchett Hill in tents
Thomas Buckland head mar 54 hawker b Oxfordshire , Deddington
Sarah wife 40 hawker b Oxfordshire Tanbury ?
Edith Jeffs unm hawker 18 b Oxfordshire, Oakley
Misella buckland dau 17 hawker b Oxfordshire, Blocksom
Platen Buckland son 13 b Berks Appletin
Matthew Buckland son 6 b Oxford,
deb
so have we decided this is your Plato?
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Tiggi on Appleton PRs is the following in Baptisms.
March 17 1839 Plato Buckland son of George and Sally--Travelling
Could this be the one that Deb found in 1851 census?
Sue
so is this Plato & teh Uppingham Plato the same one?
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a Dillie Lovell in USA now her parents were called Thennant & Rezia Lovell
Thennant obvs. Tenet Rezia sound like Kezia
hhhmmmmmmm
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Hi Tiggi
Not sure if at all relevant - but just in case ;)
Caravans, Little Marlow, Buckingham
PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1465 Folio 120 Page 42
Plato BUCKLAND 45 M (Head) Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Ann WILLIAMS 45 F
Owen WILLIAMS 14 M Son
Jobey WILLIAMS 12 M Son
Motey WILLIAMS 10 M Near Henley, Oxford, Son
Nathan WILLIAMS 8 M Oxford, Oxford, Son
Albert WILLIAMS 4 M Reading, Berkshire, Son
Alfred WILLIAMS 13 M Thame, Son (slept from the van)
Mary Maria DORMER U 40 F Beaconsfield, Buckingham, Cook D Serv
Will keep looking
Su
Tiggi, you said Plato brought a property with Ann Williams so is this your Plato or the marlow one (i know the Mrlow one was the one that married Ann Hazard)
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Sorry if wrong family, but all the names are right ???
BUCKLAND Thennant Head M M 41 Travelling Hawker Gypsy(Notem) Oxfordshire - Not Given
BUCKLAND Kezia Wife M F 36 Devon - Not Given
BUCKLAND Edif Dau S F 28 Gloucestershire - Bristol
BUCKLAND Nelson Son M M 30 Cornwall - St Austell
BUCKLAND Thomas Son S M 25 Overseas - British - U S A
BUCKLAND Henry Son S M 23 Cornwall - Bodmin
BUCKLAND Betsy Dau S F 21 Cornwall - Newquay
BUCKLAND Esther Dau S F 18 Devon - Dartmouth
BUCKLAND Moses Son S M 16 Devon - Torquay
Su ???
its says Nelson Son Male Married so i geuss this is your family but visiting his parents if he was also enumorated with his wife, his wife would have said he was there too, maybe they said who lives in this caravan and that why he was enumorated twice but i'd hazard a geus they do belong to you.
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this is from an earlier thread :~
Nelson Buckland and wife Betsey in 1881:
RG11/2217/137/55
In Caravans, Pethericks Ground, Bannerock St, Tavistock, Devon
Ishant Buckland - Head - 63 - Hawker - b Bristol
Kesiah Buckland - Wife - 60 - Hawker - b Bath
Edith Smith - Dau - Mar - 22 - Hawker - b Bristol
Wisdom Smith - Son-in-law - Mar - 33 - Hawker - b Bristol
Nelson Buckland - Son - Mar - 23 - Hawker - b America
Betsey Buckland - Dau - Mar - 28 - Hawker - b Bristol
Henry Buckland - Son - U - 17 - Hawker - b Truro
Plato Buckland - Son - 15 - Hawker - b Plymouth
Moses Buckland - Son - 14 - Hawker - b Dartmouth
Esther Buckland - Dau - 13 - b Kingsbridge
Betsey Buckland - Dau - 16 - b Truro
Eliza Buckland - Grandau - 6 - b Plymouth
Anne Buckland - Grandau - 18 - b Bodmin
Sophy Smith - Grandau - 1 - b Birmingham
Nelson Smith - Grandson - 3wks - b Callington, Cornwall
1901 census:
RG13/2189/87/34
Caravan & Tent, Village Green, St Stephen, Cornwall
Nelson Buckland - Head - 46 - Horse Dealer - b NK
Bessie Buckland - Wife - 50 - b NK
Edith Buckland - Dau - 17 - b Liskeard, Cornwall
(?)Ayme Buckland - Dau - 22 - b Holsworthy, Devon
Jane Buckland - Dau - 19 - b Plympton, Devon
Jamie Buckland - Son - 14 - b America
Moses Buckland - Son - 12 - b America
William Buckland - Son - 7 - b Yealmpton, Devon
Rambler
are these yours?
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Hi Tiggi
Thinking about this she would not be a Buckland until she gets married, so probably not 'The Keziah' but may be ancestors somewhere along the line?
Piece: HO107/1176/8 Place: Elstub & Everley -Wiltshire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Netheravon Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 12 Page: 17
Address: Netheravon
~~~~~~~~
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BUCKLAND Jeremiah M 50 Edgetool J Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Keziah F 45 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Elizabeth F 15 Ag Lab Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Charles M 13 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Keziah F 12 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Lucy F 8 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND Jeremiah M 6 Wiltshire
BUCKLAND William M 2 Wiltshire
Cheers Su
this family have a pedigree resource file on LDS (Familysearch,org) it goes right back to 1600 circa
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this is from an earlier thread :~
Nelson Buckland and wife Betsey in 1881:
RG11/2217/137/55
In Caravans, Pethericks Ground, Bannerock St, Tavistock, Devon
Ishant Buckland - Head - 63 - Hawker - b Bristol
Kesiah Buckland - Wife - 60 - Hawker - b Bath
Edith Smith - Dau - Mar - 22 - Hawker - b Bristol
Wisdom Smith - Son-in-law - Mar - 33 - Hawker - b Bristol
Nelson Buckland - Son - Mar - 23 - Hawker - b America
Betsey Buckland - Dau - Mar - 28 - Hawker - b Bristol
Henry Buckland - Son - U - 17 - Hawker - b Truro
Plato Buckland - Son - 15 - Hawker - b Plymouth
Moses Buckland - Son - 14 - Hawker - b Dartmouth
Esther Buckland - Dau - 13 - b Kingsbridge
Betsey Buckland - Dau - 16 - b Truro
Eliza Buckland - Grandau - 6 - b Plymouth
Anne Buckland - Grandau - 18 - b Bodmin
Sophy Smith - Grandau - 1 - b Birmingham
Nelson Smith - Grandson - 3wks - b Callington, Cornwall
1901 census:
RG13/2189/87/34
Caravan & Tent, Village Green, St Stephen, Cornwall
Nelson Buckland - Head - 46 - Horse Dealer - b NK
Bessie Buckland - Wife - 50 - b NK
Edith Buckland - Dau - 17 - b Liskeard, Cornwall
(?)Ayme Buckland - Dau - 22 - b Holsworthy, Devon
Jane Buckland - Dau - 19 - b Plympton, Devon
Jamie Buckland - Son - 14 - b America
Moses Buckland - Son - 12 - b America
William Buckland - Son - 7 - b Yealmpton, Devon
Rambler
are these yours?
Yes rambler all my family the 1901 Census lists james Buckland my Gandfather
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Caravans, Little Marlow, Buckingham 1881
PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1465 Folio 120 Page 42
Mootey HASARD M 45 M Head, Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Emma W. HASARD 40 F Wife
Cidemente HASARD U 23 F Daur
William HASARD U 18 M Taplow, Buckingham, Son
Sally HASARD 13 F Ascot, Berkshire, Daur
Agnes HASARD 10 F Maidenhead, Berkshire, Daur
Mingo HASARD 8 F Reading, Berkshire, Daur
Ann Pella HASARD 16 F Oxford, Daur
Thomas FLETCHER M 40 M Head, Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Gotilla FLETCHER M 40 F Wife
Frampton FLETCHER U 16 M Son
Vintine FLETCHER U 14 F Reading, Berkshire, Daur
Sarah FLETCHER 12 F Wycombe, Buckingham, Daur
Tommy Dodd FLETCHER 6 M Stokenchurch, Oxford, Son
Nathan FLETCHER 4 M Wood Cut, Oxford, Son
Providence FLETCHER 3 F Cane End, Oxford, Daur
Henry FLETCHER 8 m M Aylesbury, Buckingham, Son
Plato BUCKLAND 45 M (Head) Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Ann WILLIAMS 45 F
Owen WILLIAMS 14 M Son
Jobey WILLIAMS 12 M Son
Motey WILLIAMS 10 M Near Henley, Oxford, Son
Nathan WILLIAMS 8 M Oxford, Oxford, Son
Albert WILLIAMS 4 M Reading, Berkshire, Son
Alfred WILLIAMS 13 M Thame, Son (slept from the van)
Mary Maria DORMER U 40 F Beaconsfield, Buckingham, Cook D Serv
here is a census record for the guy lol
Tiggi considering the MArlow Plato married a Hazard and there are Hazards in the same vicinity i.e next caravan but one! i geuss this is the Marlow one, what is confusing me is that you said your Plato took out a tenacy or brought a property with Ann Williams who appears here with Plato Buckland
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this is from an earlier thread :~
Nelson Buckland and wife Betsey in 1881:
RG11/2217/137/55
In Caravans, Pethericks Ground, Bannerock St, Tavistock, Devon
Eliza Buckland - Grandau - 6 - b Plymouth
Anne Buckland - Grandau - 18 - b Bodmin
Sophy Smith - Grandau - 1 - b Birmingham
Nelson Smith - Grandson - 3wks - b Callington, Cornwall
are these yours?
Yes rambler all my family the 1901 Census lists james Buckland my Gandfather
so who do these (grand)children belong to ?
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Caravans, Little Marlow, Buckingham 1881
PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1465 Folio 120 Page 42
Mootey HASARD M 45 M Head, Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Emma W. HASARD 40 F Wife
Cidemente HASARD U 23 F Daur
William HASARD U 18 M Taplow, Buckingham, Son
Sally HASARD 13 F Ascot, Berkshire, Daur
Agnes HASARD 10 F Maidenhead, Berkshire, Daur
Mingo HASARD 8 F Reading, Berkshire, Daur
Ann Pella HASARD 16 F Oxford, Daur
Thomas FLETCHER M 40 M Head, Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Gotilla FLETCHER M 40 F Wife
Frampton FLETCHER U 16 M Son
Vintine FLETCHER U 14 F Reading, Berkshire, Daur
Sarah FLETCHER 12 F Wycombe, Buckingham, Daur
Tommy Dodd FLETCHER 6 M Stokenchurch, Oxford, Son
Nathan FLETCHER 4 M Wood Cut, Oxford, Son
Providence FLETCHER 3 F Cane End, Oxford, Daur
Henry FLETCHER 8 m M Aylesbury, Buckingham, Son
Plato BUCKLAND 45 M (Head) Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Ann WILLIAMS 45 F
Owen WILLIAMS 14 M Son
Jobey WILLIAMS 12 M Son
Motey WILLIAMS 10 M Near Henley, Oxford, Son
Nathan WILLIAMS 8 M Oxford, Oxford, Son
Albert WILLIAMS 4 M Reading, Berkshire, Son
Alfred WILLIAMS 13 M Thame, Son (slept from the van)
Mary Maria DORMER U 40 F Beaconsfield, Buckingham, Cook D Serv
here is a census record for the guy lol
Tiggi considering the MArlow Plato married a Hazard and there are Hazards in the same vicinity i.e next caravan but one! i geuss this is the Marlow one, what is confusing me is that you said your Plato took out a tenacy or brought a property with Ann Williams who appears here with Plato Buckland
No My Plato in 1883 had a mortage in Modbury devon with a Ann Tuckeer mentioned not Williams
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this is from an earlier thread :~
Nelson Buckland and wife Betsey in 1881:
RG11/2217/137/55
In Caravans, Pethericks Ground, Bannerock St, Tavistock, Devon
Eliza Buckland - Grandau - 6 - b Plymouth
Anne Buckland - Grandau - 18 - b Bodmin
Sophy Smith - Grandau - 1 - b Birmingham
Nelson Smith - Grandson - 3wks - b Callington, Cornwall
are these yours?
Yes rambler all my family the 1901 Census lists james Buckland my Gandfather
so who do these (grand)children belong to ?
Yes Buckland grandchildren
eliza is daughter of Nelson & Betsey nee Smith
Not sure but we think Ann is actually a daughter to Tenet & Keziah Buckland not grand daughter the Smith belong to Edith Buckland tenet daughter
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I am going to try and recap all this
Tenet Buckland born 1831 England
married Keziah Jeffery b 1832 England
BROTHER
Plato Buckland born 1839 England
married Elizabeth Small England
They married 15th May 1860 Wayne Ohio
Edward Buckland & Diana Smith are possible Grandparents or relations
they had a Daughter Tehanna Buckland married john Fletcher 1822 Bucks
They had a son Isaac Buckland married a Salome Hearn
1831 Bucks
Just so we understand Plato Buckland born 1836 Marlow Bucks isn;t their sibling he maybe a relative but still not proven
Although he travels with Fletcher & Williams which go back further in family possible link to family
Children of Tenet & Keziah Buckland
Tryphena bap 1852 St Blazey cornwall
Edith born 1851 or 1854 married wisdom Smith 1872 Bromsgrove
They had 4 children
Nelson Buckland b 1856 maried Betsey Smith 1874 plymouth (MY GREAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS)
Henry Buckland b 1862 married Harriet Penfold
Anne Buckland born 1863 died unmarried
Thomas Buckland b 1865 married Phebe Stanley
Esther Buckland born 1866 married Mark Jeffery in USA
Moses Buckland b 1867 married Jenty Stanley
Plato Buckland b 1870 married Priscilla Jeffery
This is 1881 Census lists Plato family
Plato Buckland aged 40 licensed Hawker & horse dealer born 1841 NK Bedfordshire
Betsey Buckland aged 38 born 1843 NK Devonshire
Genty Buckland aged 17 born 1864 NK Cornwall married William Penfold 1887 Plymouth
Joshua Buckland aged 15 born 1855 NK Cornwall married Selina Penfold 1887 Totnes Devon
Sophia Buckland aged 13 born 1868 NK Devonshire married James Penfold 1887 Plymouth
Keziah Buckland aged 11 born 1870 NK Somerset
married Moses Small
Tryphena Buckland aged 9 born 1872 NK Warwickshire
Caroline Buckland aged 7 born NK Cornwall
Eliza Buckland aged 4 born 1877 NK Devonshire
Selina Buckland aged 0 born 1881 Yealmpton Devonshire
Another child a boy Nelson that was born about 1862, he would have been their eldest child, he died in 1873 aged 10 registered death is Kingsbridge Devonshire Jan/Feb/M
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I would like to thank everyone who has tried to help me find my family
I still would love to find Tenet Birth or his marriage but its looking unlikely
If anyone can tell me how to get a copy of Plato marriage in USa that may help solve puzzle if his parents are on there maybe not but would be good to get it
Please don;t feel this was waste of time even the experts have never been able to find anything to confirm the parentage of Tenet or Plato Buckland
As its such a large family and so many its not suprising
I really have taken noticed of everything you have all found and wil carry on looking many thanks everyone
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Hi Tiggi,
Pallots Marriages have 3 entries with Plato.
I couldn't find anything with Tenet or deriv's of.
Posting them, just in case.....
Denny, Plato
Cape, Fanny
15/11/1819
Female Harringt'n
Cumbld 2
Plato, Plato
Platt, Platt
Plato, Silvester
Cleghorn, Elizth
1818
St Giles Cripplegate
Then these last 2.
Phillip Buckland
Anne Tizard
1793
Maiden Newton Dorset
Buckland Mary
Boswell Bartholomew
1798
Gt Gonerby Lincolnshire
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maybe it is worth buying the uppingham birth cert ?
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Thank you Lesanne for you information noted down you never know thank you
Yes toni I think I will have to just too buy it just for curiousity
Many thanks everyone
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I think everyone has done a wonderful job Tiggi, I hope you're enjoying your Hunt. ;D
Barbara
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Could this be Thomas Jeffery and family in 1851? I realise the birthplaces don't fit, but "Jane' could be Ganey, and Mark is the right age.
HO107/1903; Folio: 315; Page: 20
"In a tent", Lameath, Cornwall
Thomas Jeffry - Head - 23 - Basket Maker & Tin Worker - Warwickshire
Jane Jeffry - Wife - 23 - Weymouth, Dorset
Mark Jeffry - Son - 5 - Chard, Somerset
Lucy Jeffry - Dau - 3 - Bridport, Dorset
Benjamin Jeffry - Son - 1 - Devon
Henry Jeffry - Bro - 15 - Basket Maker - Voyes, Wiltshire
There's a note added against the entry: "Please to excuse this error. Egyptians." No idea what the "error" is!
Rambler
Just to up date on this find which is really good it has solved a part of family thanks to Rambler
although I was looking surname Jeffery but now realise they used variant names :
Thomas Jeffry was the one I was looking for regarding his Son Mark Jeffry
Mark married a Ganey ( Janey) Stanley had 5 children together 4 girls & boy which I have information on
In abt 1888 in USA he then remarried Esther Buckland daughter of Tenant & Keziah Buckland ( my family)
Keziah just for interest is also known as Cassia
cont:
But from 1851 Census I have found that Thomas Jeffy was 1st married to a Ganey Wells (Jane) he then went on to marry Amelia Stanley here in England and lived their Lives in USA Amelia was daughter of Levi Stanley & Matilda Joles - Levi was son of Owen Stanley & Harriet Wharton ( Famous for being King & Queen in USA Ohio)
I know that in my family On Grans side that a James Stanley also married a Unity Wells they were my great great Grandparents
So maybe Janey & Untiy are sisters or stem from same family
Thomas also had another Son called William born 1856 which I hadn't found until now
The Family of Stanley Bryer & Penfold went across in 1856 on Osprey all listed
Thomas Jeffry was with his 2nd wife Amelia Stanley and 2 sons Mark & William although no ages given for the boys just enfants I didn;t know for sure if these were Amelia sons but now know that Mark was from 1st marriage but William could be son with Amelia gonig by his birth year,
At first I was thinking this isn;t same Thomas form 1851, but then noticed Henry Jeffs was listed aged 21 with wife Phillis although different name spelling this has to be Thomas brother from 1851 census and also further searching has found William Jeffry in 1880 Licking Ohio with his wife Mary Bryer who is daughter of John Bryer listed on Osprey with William Jeffry father Thomas
so thank to Rambler I have sorted another piece of Puzzle Thank you RAMBLER
This will next information will interest DEBS USA
On same passenger list Osprey is a Robert Penfold 24 with wife Fanny aged 20 and son John aged 1
DEBS I think this is Fiance Smith b 1835 the one we are waiting on marriage to see if she is daughter of James Smith , which if so makes her my Great Grand mothers sister
There is a William Penfold also listed aged 18/19 could this be Robert brother ?
The other interesting news is that a news paper report dated 1904 USA Ohio when Levi Stanley was buried makes reference to fact before they as family took on title of King & Queen
Before they arrived in USA the king or head of Tribe was BUCHANAN now I am again unable to prove this but would say that this is BUCKLAND so my family were in USA before Stanley and also King of the tribe
There is another report that backs this up in 1887 found in New York Times Archives
A band of Gypsies from Cornwall numbering 20 + were allowed to enter via Castle Garden ( this was prior to Ellis Island) the Chief was David Buckland and his leiutent was James Stanley
mentions about land in Ohio and they had a very large amount of money with them
Yet to find out about this David Buckland, I haven;t seen that as a name in family but I do wonder if its possible yet again did Tenant change his name ? but James Stanley could well be my Great Great Grandfather via my Grans side
So more to search and I think the answers are more likely to be across the water about my ancestors
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Just out of interest can anyone help to find anything about Thomas Jeffery-Jeffery- Jeffs prior to the 1851 census
I am wondering if Keziah wife of Tenant Buckland is his sister as he was born 1828 she was born abt 1832
Or has anyone seen anything about either a Unity Wells or Janey Ganey Wells ?
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This might help too
When Stanley Bryer & Penfold families took passage in 1856 on Osprey they did so from Scotland Glasgow
Which I find strange as most of Families went to USA via Liverpool
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Looking for Unity WELLS/STANLEY, I found these families...
1871 census
RG10/2165; Folio: 65; Page: 30
Caravans, Road Side,
Richard STANLEY - Head - 40 - Hawker Traveller - Gloucs
Ellen STANLEY - Wife - 35 - Oxford
Unity STANLEY - Dau - 10 - New York
Megglie STANLEY - Dau - 14 - Taunton
William STANLEY - Son - 9 - Taunton
Lee Annie STANLEY - Dau - 5 - Taunton
Betsey STANLEY - Dau - 3 - Knightsbridge
James STANLEY - Head - 59 - Hawker - Wellington, Somerset
Mary STANLEY - Wife - 40 - Illminster, Devon
Richard STANLEY - Son - (?)15 mo - Devon
Becky STANLEY - Dau - (?)10- Taunton
1881 census
RG11/2179; Folio: 66; Page: 7
Caravans, Halwell
Richard STANLEY - Head - 53 - Travelling Gypsey (scored through) - Gloucs
Ellen STANLEY - Wife - Northants
Thomas STANLEY - Son - M - 24 - Taunton, Somerset
John BUCKLAND - Son-in-law - M - 22 - America
Richard STANLEY - Nephew - 11 - Devon
Unity STANLEY - Dau - M - 21 - America
Phebe BUCKLAND -Dau - Unm - 20 - Somerset
Not the right Unity, but surely related?
Rambler
UPDATED - Found the "right" Unity, but no time to post before school run! I'll add it later if no one else posts it first.
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Hi RAMBLER yes I do have census and later too for familes
They are both families related to me on my Grans side STANLEY
Richard Stanley is brother of James Stanley who married Unity Wells althoughi have never found out who his wife Ellen was before marriage that would be interesting could be a Cooper ?
1871 Census Daughter Unity Stanley on here marries Thomas Stanley
son of James Stanley & Unity Wells
not sure if James & Mary Stanley listed is actually James & unity ?
But i know William with richard & ellen is actually James & unity son he was my Great Grandfather
I think that William Stanley actually married Betsey Stanley
Richard daughter so that would be my Great Grandparents
1881 Census you have there John Buckland which is actually Thomas he was son of Tenant & Keziah he married Phebe Stanley Richard & Ellen Stanley daughter
also listed now is their daughter Unity married to Thomas Stanley
richard Stanley listed as nephew is richard & ellen son
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found possible christening for Unity Wells
21st Oct Abbotsbury Dorset
Parents Benjamin Wells & Mary
In 1856/7 when famlies are going to USa
Unity is listed with James Stanley her husband aged abt 20ish so this would fit her christening date the other fact is also with them was a Margaret Stanley which I think was James mother in her late 50s ( no husband listed)
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Tiggi looking back at the Bloxham PR's it looks like it was a regular stopping off place for the gypsy families.
I have found these baptisms that if they don't help you may just help someone else.
13 Oct 1781 Henry son of Thomas Williams a strolling player.
6 Aug 1780 Major son of John Boswell a travelling gypsy.
14 Feb 1836 Jerusalem son of Joseph and Crazy Ann Smith gypsies travelling sojourners.
23 Aug 1840 Tenant son of Henry and Plentyness Organ travelling gypsies.
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Tiggi again may not be your branch but,http://www.cherwell-dc.gov.uk/banburymuseum/candc.cfm Enter Plato Buckland in search, then 'phrase' in next box.
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A fascinating hunt Tiggi ;D
Here is a family in 1861 - Sadly unnamed :'(
RG9/1536 Folio 26 Page 18
Margate Lane
Bodmin (Tents)
Cornwall
Name Not Known Head Condition Not Known aged about 45 Place of Birth NK Gipsies
Name Not Known Wife aged about 37 Place of Birth NK Gipsies
Name Not Known Dau 14 Place of Birth NK Gipsies
Name Not Known Dau 8 Place of Birth NK Gipsies
Found this 51 entry for a Stanley Family - on a RootsChat Search I see has come up in a Lee thread as they are travelling with the Lee family
HO107/1910 Folio 632 Page 11
Old Turnpike Road
Kea
Cornwall
STANLY (Male) Head 56 Mar Tinker and Razor Grinder
STANLY Harriett Wife 55 Mar
STANLY Harriet Dau 19 Unm
PENKRY Patty 31 Unm
STANLY Phillippa Dau 16
STANLY Matilda Dau 13
STANLY Betty Dau 11
STANLY Algaurny Dau age 10
Kris :D
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Parish records my forte! LOL! Please check the LDS library for the Parish and see if they have records for right time frame. If so, order them sent to your local FHC. I live for the films....
Sorry if this is old info you already know, Tiggi.
badger
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Tiggi,
Do we know who this Plato was?
Plato BUCKLAND aged 78 of Easthampstead Union was buried 4 Sep 1866 Easthampstead SS Michael & Mary Magdalene
Born about 1788 - Just wondering if this the one married to Ann Hazard or yet another Plato?
Kris :D
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Hi Everyone
just catching up on posts
Krisesjoint :
I think this is another Plato not one from Marlow as he was born about 1836- 1840 I know it seems big gap but thats by census records so can;t be same person
But interestingly would fit more with the Edward ( Ned) Buckland married Diana Smith born 1755 he died 1845 presumed buried in grounds of Union workhouse at Chinnor Oxfordshire
I think I am right in thinking Easthampstead would be outside London maybe borders Oxfordshire ?
This could be possible father of the Marlow Plato
Plato 1836 Marlow
would make Plato b 1788 aged 48 when he was born his father
It would also fit that its been said in documents that Tenant own youngest son was called after his distant relation Plato ?
So my line of thought here is Plato b 1788 could be either a brother to Edward b 1755 or possible son ?
I know tradationally Gypsies would use names of ancestors down through family and Plato is in my family as name many times as sons of sons etc
I also have said that Diana & Edward daughter Tianna ( Teannah) who married John fletcher in 1822 has been passed down through my female side right up to my father;s
sister so we are in right family I think
so Krisesjoint you may well have found a missing relation
so to recap :
Edward Buckland born 1755 maried Diana Smith ( unknown date)
died 1845 aged 90 Chinnor Oxfordshire
Now does Plato b 1788 fit here as son ? or brother
I would think he is the one who married Ann Hasard 1812
Then He had son Plato born 1836/40 Marlow would make sense he traveled with his mothers family Hasard & also Fletchers Teannah Family in later Census
now I am still wondering if my Tenant & Plato were Children of Isaac Buckland because it would fit with him marrying in 1831 when Tenant ws born but I would hve to say Plato born 1839 throws this out if Isaac died 1834 unless he lied about his birth year or unless Isaac died later ? but thne I hve neber found any other children to this couple so its to my way of thinking that Plato could have lied about his birth year I always thought there was a huge gap between these boys birth dates that seemed abit strange
cont :
Edward & Diana
Had Daughter Teannah married John Fletcher 1822 Winchendon Buckinghamshire
Had son Isaac Buckland married Salome Hearn 1831 died abt 3 yrs after marriage only what I was told not proven ( unknown if had children)
It is mentioned in documents that Tenant b 1832 brother Plato b 1839 are descendants of this family and both went to USA
so we are on right lines
thank you Krisesjoint for adding yet another piece to my puzzle
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A fascinating hunt Tiggi ;D
Here is a family in 1861 - Sadly unnamed :'(
RG9/1536 Folio 26 Page 18
Margate Lane
Bodmin (Tents)
Cornwall
Name Not Known Head Condition Not Known aged about 45 Place of Birth NK Gipsies
Name Not Known Wife aged about 37 Place of Birth NK Gipsies
Name Not Known Dau 14 Place of Birth NK Gipsies
Name Not Known Dau 8 Place of Birth NK Gipsies
Found this 51 entry for a Stanley Family - on a RootsChat Search I see has come up in a Lee thread as they are travelling with the Lee family
HO107/1910 Folio 632 Page 11
Old Turnpike Road
Kea
Cornwall
STANLY (Male) Head 56 Mar Tinker and Razor Grinder
STANLY Harriett Wife 55 Mar
STANLY Harriet Dau 19 Unm
PENKRY Patty 31 Unm
STANLY Phillippa Dau 16
STANLY Matilda Dau 13
STANLY Betty Dau 11
STANLY Algaurny Dau age 10
Kris :D
this one I can answer in 1851 Census Stanley family are my Grans family and could be the Famous Owen & Harriet Stanley made King & Queen in Ohio
I know I found some Baptizms to this family from 1847 to 1851 in Cornwall parish records which proves they were down here
Interestingly only yesterday was looking up passenger lists and Stanley family ( Owen & Harriet) all went in 1856 to USA but from Glasgow on Osprey which puzzled me why go all the way to Scotland when usually they went from Liverpool would have gone pass there to get to Scotland strange?
The Lee family would be William & Matilda Lee parents of Robert Lee who married Harriet Smith she was my Great Grandmother;s sister their youngest daughter Selina married Abraham Boswell
He was know for murder of John Down and served 17yrs for this after he was allowed out of Prison he married Selina in 1900
Regarding 1861 Census such a shame no names so can;t help there
but I know in 1871 Selina Smith married to Henry James (my Grandmother's sister) was camped in Bodmin with my Gran Betsey and more of her siblings at that time not married
Just point of interest I know Bodmin well never heard of Margate Lane will see if I can find out about it very interesting of course Bodmin back then had famous Bodmin Jail ( in use did hangings in jail ground)and many cases were heard here and lots of families were imprisoned so much history in Bodmin
I would also like to tell you all since this Hunt started I have recieved amazing document from a relation in USA regarding Tenant Buckland ( It made me cry )
It is a newspaper report called A PEEP IN A GYPSY CAMP
think its dated about 1890 in USa fort lee New York
what was so exciting not just the written details about my family
Its Great Grandfathers Camp Tenant Bucklin ( Buckland )
He says that the Gypsies orginally came from Hungary ( which I have always had my thoughts that was where we orginiated from)
There were drawings of Family on there and one of Tenant !!
some of the Wagons too
I only wish I could share it with you all
Anyway to finish up I am very grateful for everyone for all your time & effort in this Hunt and I have enjoyed every minute and have more to add to my records
MANY THANKS EVERYONE :)
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Tiggi.........is there any way you could scan the article and let us see it, I for one would be most interested. I'm sure the others would too.
Barbara
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http://www.bfheritage.org.uk/memories_info.php?CID=55&LID=187
This is a link to the Easthampsted Union. Its in Bracknell.
Closer to Bray/Cookham/Marlow than Oxford.
Been waiting for some jump to my Bucklands. Also Williams and Lacey in Risborough.
Wahoo Tiggi. That newspaper report is amazing. How lucky are you. WoW isn't it just fantastic when something like that comes through.
;D I know you are grinning from ear to ear. ;D
It would be great to see it. Wahooo to you. :D
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Ohhh , Tiggi .... I am so envious of the newspaper report, but even more so of an actual drawing of your Tenant .... how amazing to know what he would have looked like.
BTW ... I am also REALLY happy for YOU ! ;D
deb
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Thank you everyone
DEBS did you see my post ? about robert Penfold ?
Here is some mor interesting reports :
A NEW KING OF THE GYPSIES
A king of the gypsies of the Americas has been born. It was out in the woods of Newton in a tent, Saturaday afternoon that he was ushered into the world , and thus may Massachusetts claim the distinction of being the birthplace of him who will be christened King John of the Gypsies and successor of King Henry late ruler over the Romany tribes of the United States Canada & the South American states
The royal youngster - he weighed eleven pounds - is the son of Tryphena 34th Queen of the ZUT tribe of roman Romchiels and of Gypsy Sam whose surname is BUCKLAND
They were made one in merrie England fourteen years ago the mother is granddaughter of Charlotte who was the 27th Queen of the ZUT tribe of the BASQUE and ASTURIAS provinces in Spain
The youthful King is 5th son born of Queen Tryphena after the death of King Henry which occurred in Birmingham England in November 1890
Of the other children Lena 12 has godfather Sir John Mcloud of England Pheobe born in Providence 8yrs ago claims Ex Governor Spague as her God father; The late Dr Knight bishop of Milwaukee was godfather to Samuel a little tot of 3 yrs and Katie 6yrs has a Godmother Mrs Ernest Girad of Middletown Conn
From Boston Advertiser ( no date)
I tell you what not being rude but that made my eyes water 11 Pounds wow ouch that was one bigga baby lol
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Tiggi
Where is the post re ..Robert penfold ... ?
Great stuff you have...11 lbs ...eeekkkk :o
I am looking for Unity wells ... but Forgotten when she was born ....also Thomas Jeffery/Jeffs .... I wonder if esther Jeffs that I found in 1851 with Platen Buckland is related to Kezia and Thomas .... ummm
deb :)
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Tiggi
Lots happening on my scavenger hunt ...now on travellers boards ... Colleena has a marriage cert which links the Smith side to my Penfolds ;D
Also have just reread some of mine and we have that Nelson Buckland was the s/o
Tenett Buckland who married Keziah SMITH .....
deb :-\
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Hi Debs
got lots going on here just wanted to say I am trying to follow all this but should correct that Keziah wasn't a SMITH she was a jeffs or jeffry or jeffries
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DEBS regarding robert Penfold I had said earlier when i checked Osprey 1856 he was on there with Fanny And son John I think this maybe Fiance Smith
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arrrggghhhhh Tiggi
I cannot see the post ...let me try again
deb
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Les:
My John WILLIAMS (1768, Towersey, Oxon; although no record of his birth) married Sarah TAPPIN (1769, Bledlow, Bucks) in Bledlow in 1792. Her mother was from Princes Risborough. We should talk....
badger
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Les:
My John WILLIAMS (1768, Towersey, Oxon; although no record of his birth) married Sarah TAPPIN (1769, Bledlow, Bucks) in Bledlow in 1792. Her mother was from Princes Risborough. We should talk....
badger
Hi Badger think you posted on wrong page lol hope you can find right one or did you mean for me to see it cos I don;t know these names sorry
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arrrggghhhhh Tiggi
I cannot see the post ...let me try again
deb
DEBS its ok look I wil retype it
1856 passenger list Osprey going from Glasgow Scotland to New York
Robert Penfold aged 24 born 1832
Fanny Penfold aged 20 born 1835
John Penfold enfant
William Penfold aged 17 born 1839
Lovell aged 18 born 1838
I think this maybe Fanny is Fiance Smith
I wonder why the families went from Glasgow ? strange they usually went from liverpool
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Hi Tiggi
Thanks for that ...:)
I will search for them ..I know I have Robert in the 1891 ...he is a widower and living with his daughters in Northam , devon.
daughters; Harriet, Bessie, Rachel and Charlotte.
Robert Penfold b 1832, s/o John Penfold and Harriet James. Fiance Smith is your ...errrr ... ummmm she is sister of ...one of your Smiths ...LOL
deb ;D ;D
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Hi again , Tiggi
I think Badger was just leaving Lesanne a message here ... Badge has Hearnes in her family and it's her hunt next week ....!!
also I have asked Badger to help us out with finding Plato Buckland and Eliza Small's marriage cert .... let's hope we can find more details with it ...
deb :)
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Hi DEBS
I know fiance is Smith sister to Peggy Smith married Joseph Orchard but when he went to live with Louise they had daughter harriet penfold she married Henry Buckland
I can;t rember now who robert Penfolds parents weredid get told will look it up but know it ties back in with your family
sandy
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Robert Penfold b 1832, s/o John Penfold and Harriet James. Robert Pemfold = Fiance Smith .... This Robert Penfold is the brother of my Thomas Penfold = Soffia Orchard
deb ;D
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right making sensde now must be robert then going across 1856 as his son is called john would be after his father don;t you think
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Yep ....
So that makes Robert Penfold and Fiance Smith my gt gt uncle and aunt ! :o
deb
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LO DEBS how did you managed to hi jack my hunt lollol back on PENFOLDS lollol
only joking
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TIGGI Babe ...so sorryyyyyyy ::) I'm awful aren't I ;D ;D :P
BTW ...still hijacking here ...was there any articles about the Penfolds being with your Bucklands ..... ;D
Okay ..no more Penfolds , I promise .... 8)
deb
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DEBS
Lollol hey you can;t go looking for any of these families without the rest being included they are all linked up so no worries only jesting with you
ITs been great week and I have enjoyed it all sstill searching and lots more coming up with my contacts states side so more to come I hope really grateful to everyone
Just to up date regarding Jeffry family have found Ganey wife of Thomas died in USA 1884
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Keep this up and you'll be sisters soon........ ;D ;D ;D
Barbara
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HEY Tephra we are hunny but don;t tell everyone theres so many of us ;D :P
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I'm just so pleased you're finding more rellies..........it's great. :D
Barbara
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hey Barbara
how cool is this .... and yep we are sisters ... LOl
;D ;D ;D ;D
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So let me get this straight...............you have DeeTwin and now TiggiSis..........OK, got that. ;D ;D ;D
Barbara
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Yes Barbara ... and we all love cheese and Beetroot sandwiches :P hee hee
I have now forgotten who I am supposed to be looking for ... Tiggi ...give me directions please ...
Oh and Barbara ...while I am out there searching , believe me , I am looking for Ernest ... ;D
deb :D
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I thought everyone knew...............while you're all busy Hunting......you HAVE to keep a look out for Ernest............ ;D ;D ;D
I'll bet he's hiding in one of those gorgeous caravans of Tiggi's. ;) ;)
Barbara
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hi sorry if this isnt the correct place to contact you but this is my first time on roots chat
my wifes grt grandfather was the one you mentioned about going to the usa old tom buckland who,s wife was pheoby mary stanly>father richard stanley i have been looking into the family for some years and have quite a lot of info and have just returned from visiting some of the bucklands in essex i would like to share any info i have,and mabe help others with there search as i am new to rootschat it might be better to contact me on my email address
Moderator Comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the secure PM system to share email addresses. Thank You
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Hi Cookie3
Welcome .... You will have lots of fun here ... ;D
Tiggi will be excited to meet you ...as she is trying to find Tenent and Plato Buckland, their marriages and the parentage ...Hopefully you will be able to help us all .
Deb :)
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Hi Cookie,
Welcome to RootsChat. :D
I am sure Tiggi will soon be in touch. I hope you can put us out of our misery with some of the elusive details on this family.
Tiggi, I still have to wonder if Tenet was the son of Isaac and Salome who was the son of Edward and Dianna, why do we not see these names in the family?
Do you know who Tenet and Plato were Cookie?
Kris :D
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Hi Cookie..........and another welcome to RootsChat from me ...... As Kriss says, I'm sure Tiggi will be in touch soon, she's probably busy jumping round the room with excitement........I know DebUSA is.......
Do you know how to work the PM (Personal Message) system on here?? If not, I'm sure between us all we can 'talk' you through it. It is easy. :D
Barbara
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thanks very much i will try to work the pm thingy but if anyone wants to contact me other than roots chat
as i keep losing my way on roots .
Moderator Comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the secure PM system to share email addresses. Thank You
Please do not place your email address on the public board.
For information on how to do just about anything on RootsChat please see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,207046.0.html
I did send you a PM. At the top of the page you will see
Welcome back, cookie3, you have XXX messages, X is new.
Click on that to view your message. :D Tiggi will be in touch soon. ;D
Regards Kris ;D
.ps i have info on the sons of thomas buckland and pheoby mary stanleys family if anone wants it,by for now hope to hear from anyone wanting info.
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very sorry i did not know you couldnt display an email address i posted it again before i was informed wont do that again for sure
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hey cookie ...
no worries ... we are just so glad you are here ... ;D emails are not allowed , just to safe guard us against spam/ etc etc ... private messaging (PM) is easy to do ...either click on the person's name at the left , scroll down and it will say 'do you want to send a Private message ....or click on the ummm err thingie underneath the baby face on the left ... Blimey ... I am soo laughing at myself ..
Cookie just stay here and post on here ...so we all can see ... BTW do you have Penfolds ? (oops I promised not to mention them again ...shhh don't tell Tiggi , please !)
deb ;D
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No Problem at all Cookie, easily removed :D
I suspect you have not seen my PM (and for everyone else's benefit) - Tiggi will have the email address when she comes online next ;)
Cookie we would love to know if you have anything you can add to the hunt once you have had a chance to have a good read and absorb it all - might take a while. We have all been enjoying the chase. It wasn't long ago Tiggi was the newbie here. She is now running her own hunt. ;D We eagerly await your input....Kris :D
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How is the hunt going is there anything need other than Tenets birth?
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Hi everyone sorry not posted for a while but I have to blend looking for dead people with looking after the living lol
My washing was piling & Ironing but I am lucky I have a very
tolerant hubby that keeps me going with coffee and sandwiches so I can stay glued to my PC
I don;t know how long Tephra wants to keep this hunt going but would like to say MANY MANY THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS JOINED IN ITS BEEN WONDERFUL AND I HAVE GAIN FROM IT
so its worth doing it there are so many willing people here who will help its wonderful
I going through it all and trying to get it sorted
Right just to update : We are still looking for Tenant Buckland birth abt 1830/1 ( Unknown where)
His marriage when in USA he said they married 1861 (could be UK)
They had a daughter Tryphena christened in 1852 St Blazey Cornwall ( parents were listed as Tenant & Keziah found on familysearh.org )
Proof of surname for Keziah ?
Plato Buckland his brother born 1839 ( unknown)
His birth
Marriage I have confirmed
Hello cookie welcome
I did see your post and recieved your personal message
Thomas Buckland was son of Tenant & Keziah correct and married Phebe Stanley correct
Yes family did go in 1904 to USA most likely last time
I would love to see anything you can add further to family as I know nothing really about Thomas and his children or where he is buried etc
So if you could post here what you know then I can see if I can help you
tiggi
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Sorry I haven't followed this hunt, but I hope this might help:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
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Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
I'm not finding anyone in Ohio, by the way.
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Hi Sdbadger
thank you for this yes its my family in USA
Moses Senior would Tenant son
thank you
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Tiggi: Sorry if I'm providing info you already have, but Deb asked me about Ohio marriage and, as I mentioned, I'm not finding anything in Ohio, so I thought you might not have the New York census info.
Do you have the passenger info on the BUCKLANDs coming to USA aboard "Carpathia" 28 Jun 1904? There are a ton of them on that ship!
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Hi sdbadger I do have it thank you only thing really I am hoping to find was /Tenant birth in UK or his marriage his brother Plato birth ( know his marriage)
would like to know if Plato did marry in Wayne Ohio about 1860 thou
many thanks
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Tiggi very kindly sent me the pages from the newspaper with the article 'A Peep In A Gypsy Camp'.................it's absolutely rivetting stuff, describing life in a Gypsy camp on a stopover on the banks of the Hudson River, New York.
It's full of excitement and tells of 'Black eyed maidens' and 'Sloe eyed babies' and even 'Queer English curses'...............I tell you, I'm totally wrapped in it. I'm going back to read it again.
I'd love for Tiggi to be able to post it on here, but it is a rather large file and I don't know if it could be done. I'll ask one of the mods and then pass the info to Tiggi.
It's a wonderful article and gives a real insight - allowing for the romantics of it all - into the life of a Gypsy tribe.
Barbara
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Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
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Tried to do something to help, but it didn't work. :'( :'( :'(
.....dee
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I've had permission from Tiggi to post this 'song' from the article......... I love it, hope you do too.
Barbara
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Hi all,
what an exciting family. Practised trawling today I found the following families:
Tent 1 Thomas (40) and Alicia Smith (40) and children
Tent 2 Edward (25) and Mary Ann Ancona (22) and child
Tent 3 Serhal? (30) and Mary Ancona (33) and children
Tent 4 Edward (59) and Lucy Buckland (58) and children
Tent 5 Emanuel ? (33) and Susan Buckland (33) and children
at Redditch, Worstershire. 1851 Census HO107, 2047, Folio 757, Page 46
That poem can be found on romanygenes.
mz
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Hi Mike
thanks for that wil keep it to one side more Bucklands lol
I do send Sue things for her site so thats maybe where she has it from I have seen other verisons of Poem to remeber the gypsies would sing songs around camp fire and really colud be anyone that they sing about but was put with newspaper report in USa regarding my Tenant Buckland
i did wonder to its orgrinality because as of yet I have not found that Tenat or plato wives were not from other than gypsy stock
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Awww but it sounds so romantic Tiggi..........she followed him over the sea.....how sweet :D
And for all you Hunters out there, here's this weeks Scavenger Hunt.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,288589.0.html
Barbara
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Here are 2 interesting sites about gypsies
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/d_booth1.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/nev/roma/gft/gft138.htm
if I find anything else of interest will post the last site mentions lots about history of gypsies and also about the story of the nails used to crucify Jesus
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The poem about the two lads transported (Plato and Louis)is from the book Romano Lavo Lil by George Borrow ,
Its under the section2English Gypsy Songs"
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Tiggi now you have the birth cert for Plato b. Leicester perhaps you should post the details of same onto here it may help throw up more leads
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Here is informaton on birth certificate for Plato Buckland
Registerstion District Uppingham
Sub District Barrowden Counties of Rutland & Northampton
November 4th 1839
Name PLATO
male
Father : Thomas Buckland
Mother : Damaris Buckland : formerly Fletcher
Father's occupation : Tinman
signed by mother : Damaris Buckland X
states residing in Harringworth
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Ooooh, love that name Damaris.........so different :D :D
Barbara
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Just out of interest can anyone help to find anything about Thomas Jeffery-Jeffery- Jeffs prior to the 1851 census
I am wondering if Keziah wife of Tenant Buckland is his sister as he was born 1828 she was born abt 1832
Or has anyone seen anything about either a Unity Wells or Janey Ganey Wells ?
Toledo, Ohio was home to many Romani in the late 1800's. We have been working diligently to locate everyone's burial location and photograph the headstones. We will have a website up and running by the end of July, 2008.
We do, in fact, have a Thomas Jeffery interred here in Toledo, Ohio... his dates, however, do not match yours. His family plot is located next to BROADWAY(s), WILLIAMS, and another JEFFERY.
Thomas Jeffery born August 29, 1844
Wife Annie S. Jeffery born September 7, 1844
And their children...
I attached a photo. Hope this helps you on your journey.
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Hi
I have been looking for them in 1871 ... They had to be near warwickshire at that stage as Edith marries Wisdom Smith, there!
Tiggi ...was wisdom younger than her , do you know?
BTW ..I have not been getting emails re this thread ... :-\
deb
hi Debs
Right on Edith marriage certificate she was aged 21 born 1851
Wisdom was aged 22 born 1850 both say living in redditch at time they married in Bromsgrove Worcesthershire in 1872
now although it states Tenet as father Plato his brother was her Witness so I am wondering where her father was at this time ?
It might be idea to look for Plato about that time he could be in 1871 in area hadn;t thought of that
but what is confusing with Edith when she dies in 1891 on her headstone she died aged 37 so that then makes her born 1854 ? so do you believe marriage or headstone ?
I love this family they have made me grey i can tell you lol
I am researching Mark BUCKLAND, believed son of Plato, who died here in Toledo, Ohio. My problem is that there were 2 distinct Mark Buckland's in Toledo born the same year! One of Romany heritage, the other, not so colorful. Mark is buried with Phillie Buckland born 1892. Mark's death certificate states he was born in Dayton, Kentucky.
My earliest BUCKLANDS are buried in a remote cemetery in Licking County Ohio with John Bryer, Johanna (Joanna on her headstone) Stanley Bryer (daughter of Owen and Harriet Wharton all on the Osprey together) and a host of Coopers. I can follow that line of BUCKLAND's way back in the USA. (They do have a series of sons named Nelson). So, why did they settle in Licking County, Ohio (BRYERS)? Two of Bryer's daughters married Charles Broadway - Georgeanna was his first wife - she died then he married Alleghaney Bryer (she's my personal favorite).
Anyways, as far has getting gray hair from the BUCKLAND vista - I have to say that I agree!
The Buckland family here in Toledo operated(s) the "BUCKLAND/STALTER Mobile Home Park" which is located just a few streets away from my home. I am diligently working on this line... I will kepp all posted!
Bonnie
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Whoops... put in the wrong picture. Well the first is correct but the second is not.
I shall try again!
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baptism of Tryphena Buckland 6/3/1852 St Blazey dau of Tennent & Kezia - only entry I can see in the Cornwall indexes around that time.
The name Tryphena is rather rare (at least in the USA). I located this Tryphena Riley while running down my William RILEY and Perstilla BROADWAY line from here in Toledo, Ohio, USA.
Any thoughts? She is buried in New York, USA
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Hi Bonnie and welcome to Rootschat..........I'm sure you'll be getting lots of PM's from Tiggi, Cathay and the girls regarding the Bucklands, they've made for a very interesting search.
Could you tell me what the sabre, what looks like horns and star mean on Mark Bucklands headstone. A most unusual sign.
All the best
Barbara
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Hi Bonnie
You are most definately related to me
b abt 1831 England
I have lots of info on family would gladly share with you
The Mark Buckland in my family was son of Moses Buckland & Jenty/Jennie Stanley
Moses Buckland being Son of Tenet Buckland & Keziah Jeffs
Jenty Stanley was daughter of James Staney & Unity Wells
can you contact me personally
tiggi
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Hi Bonnie what great photos, not sure that is the right phrase seeing as they are of gravestones but ....
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Hi Bonnie
Lets start again lol was in middle of writing 1st post and had phone call
I wouldn;t presume to say I am the only person in England who has Buckland family history but I do think I have more than most and we were from Gypsy background
Photos documents pasenger records Census etc collected over many years
I am 5th generation Buckland from Tenet Buckland think that makes me his 5 x Grt grand child ?
Are you actually related to Buckland family or just doing research ?
either way would love to know what you have and can exchange info
Our Buckland family 1st went to USA in 1857 on SS Kangaroo
from liverpool to New York with many other known families
I have information about the Mark Buckland who you have posted
We have 2 Marks in famliy which I know about
The Stanley family and Bryers are also my line the Riley famliy maybe connected to Coopers, but there is also another Riley family not connected
Let me know what you want to know
tiggi
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Congratulations Tiggi, more information for you ;D ;D ;D
They are wonderful photos aren't they Toni.
Barbara
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Yes Tephra lol
Its a huge family and hopefully more will contact us your site is amazing the Scavenger hunts especially I would like to thank everyone for their efforts its worth it and also to say never give up hope of finding your famliies someone will show you the way and its so great when you do finally get something
Also just to let you know I have found more about my Smith family that would my Great Gran-mother;s side the lady picured who was wife of Nelson Buckland
So slowly family is coming together, but its getting bigger & bigger lol
Its great to get Photos of anything especially people
I have been sent several lately and now have faces to those I have researched it makes them more real and also to see family likeness is wonderful
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Hi Tiggi
You've had some remarkable information come in......I'm so pleased for you.
I don't know about not giving up.........I'm about to disown Ernest ;D ;D
The new hunt is up...........get going ;) ;) ;)
Barbara
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Hi Tephra
Already on it lol new hunt that is :
Tephra you asked about the Symbol on grave stone for Mark Buckland if you go to this site it will explain about it
http://www.ben-ali-shriners.org/Want2be.htm
tiggi
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Hi Bonnie and welcome to Rootschat..........I'm sure you'll be getting lots of PM's from Tiggi, Cathay and the girls regarding the Bucklands, they've made for a very interesting search.
Could you tell me what the sabre, what looks like horns and star mean on Mark Bucklands headstone. A most unusual sign.
All the best
Barbara
http://www.shrinershq.org/
Barbara,
Many of the Romani (British) families that are here in the USA have similiar affiliations on their headstones. I would say nearly half of the newer interments have some symbol to some fraternal organization (IOOF -Bryers, ELKS-Harrisons, etc). I have not spent much time exploring the "reasons" for these affiliations. The Shriners do some remarkable fundraising. They also have a popular TRAVELING circus... that may hold some clue as it would have been a source of employment for travelers?
I will be placing my website with cemetery pictures online by the end of July (hopefully). I am not certain of the URL as yet... it is graphic intensive and I need lots of space so I am still pricing different web hosting providers (I need a good deal for my money so that I can put on all of the pictures in high definition so that people can actually enlarge the files to read all the inscriptions).
I am so delighted that I found this site! Maybe I will receive fewer gray hairs now that there are others to share my frustrations!
Bonnie
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Hi TwistedTwigs
Are you actually related to family or just doing research ?
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Hi Bonnie
Lets start again lol was in middle of writing 1st post and had phone call
I wouldn;t presume to say I am the only person in England ...
I am 5th generation Buckland from Tenet Buckland think that makes me his 5 x Grt grand child ?
Are you actually related to Buckland family or just doing research ?
either way would love to know what you have and can exchange info...tiggi
Tiggi,
I would like to address my interest(s) in the Romany family lines before anyone gets their feelings hurt... respecting that the Romany people have had to keep their lineage protected, as many in the world have such disdain for the people called Gypsies.
I have taken the introduction from my website, as it best explains how I landed in Romany Genealogy. After reading it, you can better decide what you will or will not share with me. I will respect anyone's wish to not share their family lineage. I would, however, like to have the opportunity to post the information that I find (photos, newspaper articles, vital records) as they may be useful to some of you.
So... here it is:
"Kai zhal o vardon vurma mekela...
(where the wagon goes a trail is left).
A UP press release, July 16, 1951, referred to Toledo, Ohio, as the "unofficial national headquarters of gypsy tribes." Again in 1937, three days before Christmas, Toledo made the National wire release when its Gypsy residents were removed from the East Side and relocated to a city park amidst a headline making winter storm. Neither of these stories were carried in the Toledo Blade (our local paper). How could it be that the rest of the nation knew more about Toledo's Gypsy population than her own residents?
The University of Toledo offers the course Gypsies (Romanies) and Travelers. The final assignment for that class was to write a paper that addressed the question, "What is a Gypsy?" As with any developing idea, the cephalocaudal approach (head before arms and trunk and arms and trunk before legs or in this case start where you live and gradually grow outwards) is the most managable.
Equipped with an overview of some common Gypsy burial customs and a cemetery plot map (provided by the Professor)that had and "x" marked where motivated students just might be able to identify a Gypsy interment, we traipsed out into the snow covered cemetery."
As for me, I am in my middle 40's and returned to school to complete my second degree in Obesity Studies... I am just fascinated by the fact that there is a culture of people in my hometown that has no recognition. I have my own family line back into the 1400's and have been a genealogy buff for over a decade. My spouse and I do all the traipsing about and share in this endeavor.
That all being said, I would really love to be a part of your group - if for no other reason than to offer you all what I find. I have other people here in the USA that do not share - but I send them what I find.
My interest lies in the families interred here in Toledo. I would like to know where they came from and how they are related, but am not so interested in compiling a "complete" family lineage on any or all of them (one cemetery alone has 200+ BROADWAY, WILLIAMS, COOPER, BUCKLAND, HICKS, BOSWELL, STANLEY, RILEY, HARRISON, WELLS, SMITHS - and ALL related)! It is overwhelming! I have yet to even explore the SMITHS buried with these lines (there are even more gray hairs in that family name)!
Hope that answers the question regaring my interest!
Have a great evening all!
Bonnie
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Hi Tiggi, thanks for the link, it explains it all now.........very interesting, I'd no idea about the 'Shriners'
Bonnie, you're more than welcome on these threads.........I do believe the information you have would be really helpful to some of the girls, and thank you for your offer, it's most generous of you. :)
Do let us know when your web site is up and running, I for one would love to see it.
Barbara
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Hi Tiggi, Please excuse if I am going over old ground here but have only just joined in on Rootschat. I am researching the Bucklands in Berks/Buscks/Oxon and would be more than happy to send you what I have. Please mail me direct at
MODERATOR COMMENT: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the secure personal message system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
and I will send all.
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Just out of interest can anyone help to find anything about Thomas Jeffery-Jeffery- Jeffs prior to the 1851 census
I am wondering if Keziah wife of Tenant Buckland is his sister as he was born 1828 she was born abt 1832
Or has anyone seen anything about either a Unity Wells or Janey Ganey Wells ?
Toledo, Ohio was home to many Romani in the late 1800's. We have been working diligently to locate everyone's burial location and photograph the headstones. We will have a website up and running by the end of July, 2008.
We do, in fact, have a Thomas Jeffery interred here in Toledo, Ohio... his dates, however, do not match yours. His family plot is located next to BROADWAY(s), WILLIAMS, and another JEFFERY.
Thomas Jeffery born August 29, 1844
Wife Annie S. Jeffery born September 7, 1844
And their children...
I attached a photo. Hope this helps you on your journey.
my grandmother was EDITH ANN "" ANNIE"" BUCKLAND, her father was Plato Buckland and her mother was a jeffery, i believe we are talking about the same people . her brothers were Mark, josha and tennent and she had several sisters , kiggy,gazar, and many more . She is also buried in ohio with her husband henry stanley
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Hi Gypsy Gal... and welcome to Rootschat. I'm sure once Tiggy, Cathay, Cookie and Bonnie read your post, they'll be in touch.
All the best
Barbara
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To gypsygal if you go to website below you will find Tiggi's family history info lots of info there about the Bucklands etc .
http://gypsyjib.wetpaint.com
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Welcome Gyspy Gal
If you're related to Tiggy ...you're related to Me !!! :) and errr lots of other cousins on this site!
Enjoy!
deb
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Hi everyone sorry I could not access site yesterday ,but was told about this message :
GypsyGal
Yes we are cousins :
Plato would have been my Grt Uncle
My Grt Grandfather Nelson Buckland was Plato 's older brother he was eldest child of Tenet & Kezia and he & Thomas another older brother were only 2 who stayed in England all the rest of Family went to live in America abt 1904 last time they left England
My Grt Grandfather died in 1908 in Devonshire
Your Grandmother Annie Buckland was daughter of Plato Buckland & Priscilla Jeffery
Plato was youngest son of Tenet Buckland & Kezia Jeffs/Jeffery
Priscilla was daughter of Mark Jeffery & Allganey Stanley
Mark Jeffery was son of Thomas Jeffery & Ganey* Jane * Wells
Allaganey Stanley was daughter of Owen Stanley & Harriet Whorton
I am not sure who Henry Stanley line is as in Parents if you can tell me I am sure I can link them up
Mark Jeffery actually married 2nd time to Plato's sister Ester Buckland
His father Thomas Jeffery also married twice he married Amelia Stanley who's mother was Elizabeth Smith
I have lots on Family line and as my friend romanygenes has said please do look at my site romanyjib where you will find lots of relatives : ))
Look forward to chatting with you
I have been researching our family along time now and too much to write here lolol
Hi Debs long time chat.. wonderful we have yet another part of our family found :)
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Tiggi, another relative............ That's great :) :)
Barbara
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Yes Tephra lol .. there is alot of us about :)
Thanks for your help I hope gypsygal will answer so we can get in contact :)
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Fingers crossed she will......... I'm sure she will, she couldn't resist another cousin ;D ;D
Barbara
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Hi jamajo
I don;t know who this is but will keep it to one side its possible its a relation Tenet was a very unsual name and I would think anyone with that name has to be something to do with my family
It could be a son of one of Tennet children they would call children after grand parents so will look into that one
many thanks
The head of Family Tennet I am interested in was b 1830 ish and possible Oxfordshire Somerset area not Cornwall I think family came down here but wasn;t born in Devon or Cornwall
hi , so you are related to the packmans, Louisa orchard and her family going back to the scarrots in the 1600s.
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Hi Espanol
Yes I am related to Packmans via Louisa Orchard her mother was Peggy Smith - Joe Orchard
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Hi All,
My name is Gary Stanley and I live in Devon, UK. James Stanley/Unity Wells are grt, grt, grt grandparents and I think I'm related to some of you and was hoping to get some help with tracing family members, specifically James Stanley who married Unity Wells ...
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... It seems from all your posts, that you may be quite a relatively close relation Tiggy, so it would be good to try and pick your brains sometime!!
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Hello all!
I am very new to all of this and have been enjoying reading everyone's posts about their families! It is so nice to see that everyone is so willing to help each other. It is also fun to watch the connections being made and families grow!
I know that this thread is very old... but it caught my attention because because of my Toledo, OH family roots. Both of my parents were born and raised in Toledo and their families both settled there around the 1880-90's. My gg-grandmother Delia Smith McCrary was the daughter of William Smith and Spisana Mary Lovell. Delia was born in New Jersey (from what family members can recall) and she remembered travelling to Ohio in wagons. She had many brother and sisters and 3 of her sisters married three Broadway brothers. My grandma Ella Mae McCrary McVicker was born in the park across the street from the Toledo Hospital... in a tent. She also had many brothers and sisters. My ggreat grandfather James Edward McCrary was a horse trainer and traveled with a fair/circus (not really sure which). I have been having a very difficult time trying to connect the dots...
I have been trying to figure out how to contact the rootschat member Bonnie. She said she was very interested in the history of Toledo and the gypsy culture. It appears that she only posted a few times more than 15 years ago... I am hoping that someone would be able to help me get in contact with her or anyone else that would have any information about Toledo, OH.
Thanks so much!
Anna
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Hi,
Noticed Peonie's reply #239 of Tuesday 26 February 08:
1851 Census HO107, 2047, Folio 757, Page 46
Tent 1 Thomas (40) and Alicia Smith (40) and children
Tent 2 Edward (25) and Mary Ann Ancona (22) and child
Tent 3 Serhal? (30) and Mary Ancona (33) and children
Tent 4 Edward (59) and Lucy Buckland (58) and children
Tent 5 Emanuel ? (33) and Susan Buckland (33) and children
at Redditch, Worstershire.
Who were the Ancona family please?
Many thanks :)
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Hi,
I've been researching my family history below, and noticed you have discussed them on here.
I was wondering if anyone has any pictures of Plato Buckland (Buckinghamshire, oldest gypsy who died 1926) please? thank you.
Plato BUCKLAND 45 M (Head) Trawler And Dealer (Coster)
Ann WILLIAMS 45 F
Owen WILLIAMS 14 M Son
Jobey WILLIAMS 12 M Son
Motey WILLIAMS 10 M Near Henley, Oxford, Son
Nathan WILLIAMS 8 M Oxford, Oxford, Son
Albert WILLIAMS 4 M Reading, Berkshire, Son
Alfred WILLIAMS 13 M Thame, Son (slept from the van)
Mary Maria DORMER U 40 F Beaconsfield, Buckingham, Cook D Serv
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Hi Kirsty
You wrote to me several years ago regarding the Bucklands, do you remember, i already put the place where you could find the photos, a year before you was asking for information the first time, you must not have seen my early posts then, now you ask for Platos photo, well if you sign up to the Newspaper archives you will through what i now put on find a few photos regarding Plato, you can view them free by just signing up, you get three goes free, or like i have done sign for the whole year its really reasonable and a great web site i do recomend you sign up for a year, also sign up for Ancestry d.n.a, by doing this you get to see who through d.n.a is related to you, i have several Buckland matches from 4th to 6th cousin mark, these Buckland do not have their pages open, that meens you have to write to them first then they show you lots of photos and records, i have not wrote to anybody but again lots who i am related to let their relatives see their photos without writing to them there is the open padlock sign, so in this way you also will along with the Newspaper archives get a great chance in finding family photos from long relatives, i will put up next the place where you may find the photos you are looking for in the Newspaper Archives its a great web site like Ancestry, sign up soon, when looking backwards its the way forwards.
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This photo is of Plato Buckland's Varda
THE ILLUSTRADED LONDON NEWS
Registered as a Newspaper for Transition in the United Kingdom and to Canada and Newfoundland by Magazine Post
Saturday October 9 1926
BURNING THE CARAVAN AND WORLDLY GOODS OF PLATO BUCKLAND,
A CENTENARIAN GIPSY WHO DIED AT MARLOW RECENTLY.
In accordance with old Romany custom, the caravan of Plato Buckland, a gipsy who died the other day at the reputed age of 102, was burned at Marlow, with his other effects.
Photographs by C.N and 1.B.
if you go on this link from RootsChat its by me about Dan Boswell, well i have found dozens of old photos over the years just look at these on pages 44 45 46, there may be more people who look on here who also look for such things, i also have found more that i must put with all these on a page of their own so relatives may find the lost photos of their old relatives, go on the link then join the Newspaper Archives then type in the said Newspaper or magazine i put up with the date i write about then just type in, that meens write, as in keyboard, some of the words i write about the article and the computer will bring up the page with the photo, or just write to the moderator and say i sent you for the photo page, they dont know me but on reading my post they will help you, Kirsty why have you made another sign in name from your old one
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=730582.msg6047370#msg6047370
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This photo is another of the burning of Plato Bucklands Varda, this picture like many I have come across as just been in a magazine since 1926, some of these photos could be in old journals or later papers but there lost to the People of today, I would tell everyone to think about researching the old editions of magazines and papers that are evan today being updated, most of you and your Family's will not have the access to old journals and papers that some People hold onto, just do what I do and look yourself, then share everything, help everyone, never let evan the smallest none descript piece of information slip away, save everything
this is another photo for the Bucklands and all their People the ones who have never seen this photo, its another great one
THE SPERE
October 9 1926 The Empires Illustrated Weekly Page 51
THE CARAVAN OF A DEAD GIPSY
The last picture produced above shows the burning of a caravan belonging to Gipsy Plato Buckland, who died recently at the age of 102, the caravan was set alight and accordingly burnt to old custom
I was just looking for the record of Plato Buckland, and I came across this one from 1840, I found lots back to the 1700s, it is one of the greatest I have ever read,
Reading Mercury Saturday 22 February 1840
MARLOW, SATURDAY, February 22. The following distinguished persons are on a visit to Sir W. R. Clayton, Bart., M.P., at ford The Baron Latouche, Sir J. Kirkland, Bart., and Lady, the Hon. Major Henniker, Colonel Fremantle, Tonga, Sir George Baker, Bart,, Miss Cole, Capt. and Mrs. Culpeper, &c, .—Plato Buckland, a well-known gipsy, appeared to prefer a case of assault against Jonathan Hickman, of Little Mallow. It appeared the parties had been playing at " Hussle penny" in a public-house, when a dispute arose, and the defendant tore the plaintiffs hat to pieces and put it in the fire. The plaintiff stated his case with gestures fitting and tongue most voluble The worthy Magistrates, however, very properly dismissed the case as a public-house quarrel., much to the satisfaction of the defendant and his solicitor. Mr. May. Plato was anything but philosophic under his defeat.—
this below is just an extract of a much larger report with more great information, they must be either closely related to or one of the Old Original Family's
Swindon Advertiser and North Wilts Chronicle Saturday 15 November 1890
REMARKABLE FUNERAL SWINDON.
One of the most remarkable funerals ever witnessed probably in Swindon took place at the Parish Church, Old Swindon, on Wednesday afternoon last, the deceased an old gipsy named Timothy Buckland, 70 years of age. In consequence of the extraordinary reports which had been circulated as to the preparations which had been made for the funeral obsequies, and also that deceased held a titular position among the gipsies, well as that he had considerable wealth, led to the assemblage of several thousands of spectators in front of the church gates at the hour appointed, viz.. Three o'clock, and this crowd blocked up the roads leading thereto for some considerable distance, during the whole period of the formal service, which occupied but very little short of an hour. It appears that decease! was born at Hawkesbur Upton, in Somersetshire, in the year 1820, and from the time of his birth till that of his death has been living a predatory life, his practice being travel with vans, in which he and his family resided, he and his sons being generally engaged in horse and donkey dealing, and the female members of the family hawking goods in baskets throughout the country. The old man, having for some little time past been suffering from cancer in the mouth took up his abode in a field near the Wharf, in the Drove-road, Swindon, recently, and his other vans, the number of nine, in due course followed, the forming of a large gipsy encampment of upwards of 50 persons, consisting of deceased and his wife, four brother, their sons and daughters, and their children, living in their respective vans and tents, some of which bore a remarkable resemblance to the wigwams of the Indians, as seen in Canada and North America. The illness from which the old man was suffering threatening to have a fatal termination, the family had remained at Swindon for close upon to a month, awaiting the end
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Hi,
I've been researching my family history below, and noticed you have discussed them on here.
I was wondering if anyone has any pictures of Plato Buckland (Buckinghamshire, oldest gypsy who died 1926) please? thank you.
http://americanromanichals.webeden.co.uk/communities/9/004/006/637/229/images/4521245446_425x473.jpg
This seems to be the man but under a variant surname - the source page is here:
http://americanromanichals.webeden.co.uk/buckland-family/4528895425
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Kirsty
A few more photos, try and go on the link above i put on from the Dan Boswell thread on pages 44. 45. 46. there is many photos on there that i found over the years there may be more for you to look into, it would be a shame if relatives never found all the old photos that i came across while researching the old newspaper articles over the years, i have also found more and will also put them on RootsChat on a page for photos of the long gone Gipsy's that people like you try and find, everyone always wants to find photos, if you sign up to Ancestry d.n.a you will be able to see many photos of relatives and their wider family's, i have wrote about family's that are related to me on the Joseph Wilsher thread by Sky, all the ones i have wrote about are related through shared d.n.a from 1st cousin to 8th cousin in the template that Ancestry use, Ancestry have millions of people in their database yet i have only several hundred matches overall, when you take away my Fathers relations which is easy to do i am left with many Gipsy relations like the Bucklands, how you will know they are the Gipsy Bucklands is by looking at their family tree if they have the open padlock on their profile, these are the ones i have used on the Wilsher thread, but with the Bucklands that i am related to well they have the padlock sign on that tells you that you can view their photos and records if you first write to them, so now i will show you the way to bypass this stage to show you how to learn truths, so just click on where it says shared d.n.a, this link shows you who your match is related to that also share d.n.a with you, so me and the Bucklands share d.n.a with family's like the Wharton's Baily's Jeffery's Lovell's Stanley's Boswells and many more, so by doing this i know the Bucklands are Gipsy's in origin, this way shows how i match to a person named Lovell in direct d.n.a from a common ancestor and also how my Buckland match is also related to that same Lovell match through shared d.n.a, in the breakdown of your d.n.a you will have the common ansester d.n.a and the ethnicity d.n.a. Ancestry separate the two and show you who your old family ties are from long ago, then they show you your shared ethnicity, this part in my mind is still a work in progress for i now match to two Romany Gipsy people who have foreign names from Europe one female one male who have no d.n.a from the lands of my birth yet my d.n.a is in them from the older times, i hope this as been of help to you, also lots of people leave their padlock open for relatives to look at photos, the Boswells mostly do and most really, i suppose some like you to join their family group in a sort of group chat, either way if you join Ancestry the world opens up arisens that may amaze a person, the one thing i have found with the Gipsy d.n.a is that there is many links between family's, evan my distant cousins still when i click on their name several other family names come up that share old d.n.a with me, on my fathers side when you get to the older cousin matcher's they are offten alone and do not have shared matcher's but the Gipsy's seem right up to the olden times to have strong inter family matcher's, they must of stayed within themselves long ago, this is the truth through my own d.n.a. its true an old match say a Boswell will still match to my newer matcher's like third cousin evan though my old match may be an 8th cousin, this does not happen to the same exstent through my fathers side of my roots, i want you to know this as true, they must of stayed within family groups long ago on a scale that to me is now proved in my own d.n.a. its true to say though that you can also see how a second cousin may not share all the same d.n.a matcher's as yourself, i have close Gipsy relations that do not share all of my matcher's in other family's, i am sure this works both ways to, and also i see how the same Bucklands ethnicity may change between the same family groups, one will have the spoon of d.n.a from Europe through to Asia and the other just British, like i say ethnicity is still a work in progress and Ancestry do show and tell you these things may and do happen, as the data base expands and their knowledge grows more truth will come to be known.
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Kirsty these are the other photos that you may like
Wednesday 5 November 1913 The Sketch Magazine, there is a good photo of this Lady, very nice for the Relatives who may not have seen this
A ROMANY ROMANCE THE GIPSY BELLE OF THE HOME COUNTIES,
FEZENTA BUCKLAND WHO WAS RECENTLY MARRIED.
Mrs. Buckland, formerly known as Decent Fenner, has the reputation of being the most beautiful gipsy in the Home Counties. She was married the other day to William Buckland, also a gipsy, at Datchet. Photograph by Illustrations Bureau.]
The SPHERE Saturday 14 August 1948
THIS GIPSY CARAVAN HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO THE LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL BY MR. AND MRS. COURTENAY MASON, OF HAMPSTEAD, FOR PERMANENT DISPLAY AT KEN WOOD The caravan, originally owned by the Buckland’s of Buckinghamshire.
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Kirsty
Ancestry have millions of people in their database yet i have only several hundred matches overall, when you take away my Fathers relations which is easy to do i am left with many Gipsy relations like the Bucklands, how you will know they are the Gipsy Bucklands is by looking at their family tree.
Have a tree on Ancestry - match Romany Boswells highest (but only on Ancestry DNA search & Gedmatch) with Hearn-Buckland next, then Loveridge and Romany Smith [posted question on Ancona name earlier - Smiths also used this name]. My most recent common ancestor is somewhere between 3rd & 5th great grandparent but I can't work out who this is. I suspect Lee family because they are 3rd, 4th & 5th great grandparents, but I can't prove it, but both Smith and Ancona surnames appear in this branch of my tree. Cannot find the connection to Boswell on my tree - it's there somewhere.
Any help very welcome please - grew up in Margaret Finch's Norwood, so this is a sentimental quest.
Kind thanks :)
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kr236rk
RootsChat Member
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Re: Tiggi's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #277 on: Sunday 15 September 19 18:49 BST (UK) »
Quote
Hi,
Noticed Peonie's reply #239 of Tuesday 26 February 08:
1851 Census HO107, 2047, Folio 757, Page 46
Tent 1 Thomas (40) and Alicia Smith (40) and children
Tent 2 Edward (25) and Mary Ann Ancona (22) and child
Tent 3 Serhal? (30) and Mary Ancona (33) and children
Tent 4 Edward (59) and Lucy Buckland (58) and children
Tent 5 Emanuel ? (33) and Susan Buckland (33) and children
at Redditch, Worstershire.
Who were the Ancona family please?
Many thanks :)
there seems to be more indepth information on these links about names and locations and such, i will not be writing back so no need to answer
http://romanygenes.com/18411851-census-2/4532697246
http://romanygenes2.webeden.co.uk/census1851/4526606188
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Thanks
Serhal Ancona is Jubal Ancona.
Jubal Ancona is Jubal Smith, son of Gripy Smith, baptised at Wroughton, Wiltshire 13th July 1814.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716110.msg5598232#msg5598232 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716110.msg5598232#msg5598232)
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Also here:-
"Nov 25th, Charlbury, Oxfordshire marriage of his daughter Mary Smith to Jubal Ancorn. Wisdom Smith
referred to as “Wisdom Smith, labourer” and witnesses were Sidney and Prudence Smith, AS YET
UNIDENTIFIED"
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~kjn1961/genealogy/SMITH%2009%20Wisdom%20Smith%20and%20descendants.pdf (http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~kjn1961/genealogy/SMITH%2009%20Wisdom%20Smith%20and%20descendants.pdf)
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But why (open question) do the Smiths take up the Ancorn - Ancona name please, does anybody know?
Thank you.
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This Albina may be the same as the Albina Richard writes about below
Friday 22 January 1875
Western Daily Press
Bristol
Nelson Talbot and Albina Smith, said to be gipsies, were charged with fighting at St. George's, on Sunday afternoon. Talbot did not appear. defendants were fighting at about three o'clock on Sunday afternoon, and a crowd of 300 or so people were watching the men, who were stripped for the fight. Smith was bound over to keep the peace for six months, and a warrant was issued for the apprehension of Talbot
richarde1979
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #2 on: Friday 20 March 15 11:47 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Update on this I think Tubal Ancora Smith is actually Jubal Smith, born 1814 in Wiltshire son of Johnny Ancorn Smith and Agrippina Smith:
Jubal Smith, son of Gripy Smith, baptised at Wroughton, Wiltshire 13th July 1814
1861 Bristol, Gloucestershire
Jubal Smith, 47, Hawker, born Wranton, Wiltshire
Mary Smith, 43, wife, born Fredenton, Warwickshire
Abina Smith, 12, son born Sodmarton, Oxfordshire
Alfred Smith, 18, son born Shipton, Oxfordshire
Hannah Smith,14, dau, born High Littleton, Somerset
Jesse Smith, 2, son, Broadway, Staffordshire
Sophia Smith, 7, daugh, Netherton, Staffordshire
22 August 1883: Marion Jane Smith, wife of Jubal Smith, grinder, no home, Charged with being drunk at Warwickshire.
you wrote this
kr236rk
RootsChat Member
***
Re: Tiggi's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #287 on: Yesterday at 20:18 »
Quote
Thanks
Serhal Ancona is Jubal Ancona.
Jubal Ancona is Jubal Smith, son of Gripy Smith, baptised at Wroughton, Wiltshire 13th July 1814.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716110.msg5598232#msg5598232
so from what you Sue and Richard have found these are the same people
1851*Civil Parish: Redditch:County: Worcestershire
Tent no 3
Serhal?Isirah? Ancona 30 b Marlborough, Wiltshire mat/maker
Mary Ancona 33 bHepston, Worcestershire
Albina Ancona 4 b Sodmaston, Oxfordshire
Alfred Ancona 9 Fieldton, Oxfordshire
Isarah Ancona 1
Sebana (Isirah?)Ancona 7 b Littleton, Somerset
Salton LaneTent 3
Serhal Ancona 30 b 1821 Marlborough Wiltshire
Mary Ancona 33 b 1818 Hepston Worcestershire
Alfred Ancona 9 b 1842 Fieldton Oxfordshire
Sebana Ancona 7 b 1844 Littleton Somerset
Albina Ancona 4 b 1847 Sodmaston Oxfordshire
Isarah Ancona 1 b1850 Bertham Warwickshire
1861 Bristol, Gloucestershire
Jubal Smith, 47, Hawker, born Wranton, Wiltshire
Mary Smith, 43, wife, born Fredenton, Warwickshire
Abina Smith, 12, son born Sodmarton, Oxfordshire
Alfred Smith, 18, son born Shipton, Oxfordshire
Hannah Smith,14, dau, born High Littleton, Somerset
Jesse Smith, 2, son, Broadway, Staffordshire
Sophia Smith, 7, daugh, Netherton, Staffordshire
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I was reading this below that said Johny Ancorn Smith was the oldest yet so i looked for a John Ancorn early 1800s it may not be what you are looking for, i try and see everything i find this way helps in the long run
Re: Aaron Smith (b.1834-8 Circa, Berkshire - d. 1923 Surrey)
« Reply #2 on: Friday 20 March 15 11:47 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Update on this I think Tubal Ancora Smith is actually Jubal Smith, born 1814 in Wiltshire son of Johnny Ancorn Smith and Agrippina Smith:
20 July 1811
Oxford Journal
Oxfordshire
ABSCONDED, JOHN ANCORN, supposed to be a native of Oxfordshire, aged about Fifty Years, about 5 feet 4 or 5 inches high, Rather a thin flat cheek, sallow complexion, stoops, and walks generally slow and awkward ; when he went away he had on a blue coat and leather breeches, is a labourer, and has every appearance of it. About twelve or thirteen years ago the said John Ancorn left a wife and large family chargeable to the parish of Aston Cantlow, Warwickshire, and was not apprehended till about two years since, when he was found at or near Oxford, since which time he has buried his wife and remained with his children till Jantuary last, when he left them chargeable to the said parish of Aston Cantlow- the Overseers of which will pay a reward of FIVE GUINEAS, and all reasonable expenses to any person who shall apprehend the said John Ancorn and give information thereof to Mr. Gibbs, Black- ford Mill, near Henley in Arden.
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Jubal, thanks yes, he's on the 1851 census for Redditch, West Bromwich.
Am also wondering if the Ancona, Ancon name is not also Anchor? I actually have a distant cousin who has the Ankers name in their tree, married to the Carter surname.
ANCHOR 1785-1880 Bedfordshire, Sussex. (See Robert Dawson ARITF)
ANCONA ( Eng, Census 1851)
The Traveller – Tinker – Gypsy Surname Index of Great Britain Updated 8/03/2010
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Jubal Smith is on my family tree, x7 grandparent has anybody got any more information for me