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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Noreen Rose on Saturday 01 March 08 18:49 GMT (UK)
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Good evening
My husband's mother was Doris ASHCROFT bn Hull 1907. I have her parent's marriage in Hull in 1896 Arthur ASHCROFT 22 father Andrew ASHCROFT, Deceased - to Elizabeth LINGWOOD 17 father Benjamin LINGWOOD. They had a large family. I am unable to find them in the 1901 Census, to establish exactly where Arthur ASHCROFT came from.
Arthur ASHCROFT died of Influenza in 1919 aged 48.
I have found a marriage to Sarah DRIVER 1857 in Birkenhead and a death of an Andrew ASHCROFT in Birkenhead aged 38 - Dec 1878. I have found 2 children Arthur 22 ?incorrect, on his marriage and 48 on his death. His sister Sarah bn 1864 marries Charles PLUMB in Hull in 1881.
I am not sure if this is the correct marriage in 1857 but his widow is Sarah!
The family thought that his wife Sarah might have married again and I believe she married Andrew Wallace in Hull in 1882.
Noreen
York
'All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.national archives.gov.uk
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is this the parents of doris
1901 RG13/4506/154/21.
arthur ashcroft age 29. b. manchester. occ. fish labourer.head.
elizabeth age 22. b. hull. wife.
florence.m. age 3. b. hull. daughter.
olive age 1. b. hull. daughter.
living at ; 6,livingston terrace,walcott road,st.barnabas,holy trinity,kingston upon hull.
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Yes!
these are the parents and their first 2 children. How wonderful, I gave up looking for them as I had tried such a lot when the census first came out!
I knew Elizabeth her mother didn't read and write very well according to my mother in law. Three of her brothers became deep sea fishermen, very well known in Hull, Arthur being in a TV programme in the early 60's.
Thank you very, very much for this which proves I am looking at the right family.
Regards
Noreen
York
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here is Sarah with Andrew away somewhere
1861
26 william St Birkenhead Cheshire RG9/2639/95/26
William Driver head m 52 blacksmith b.Yorks Keighly
Elizabeth wife m 54 b.Lancs Bolton
john son un 26 hammer man do
William do un 14 app to Smith b. Lancs Longsight
Ellen g daur 11 scholar b.Lancs Manchester
Sarah Ashcroft daur mar 20 dressmaker do
Mary Ellen do grdaur 2 do
I can see Andrew in 1871 without Sarah but unfortunately must go out .Will track it tomorrow if no one else picks it up.
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Thank you very much, I do appreciate your very kind help. I do help other people on Rootschat when I can.
Noreen
York
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1871
RG10/3747/46/7
andrew ashcroft age 32. b. holm,manchester. occ. blacksmith. head.
mary.e. age 12. b. birkenhead. daughter.
sarah age 6. b. ditto. daughter.
fanny age 3. b. ditto. daughter.
graham wilson age 22. b. scotland. occ. engine fitter.lodger.
harriett wilson age 22. b. salford. lodger.
living at 189,beckwith street,birkenhead.
reg.dist. birkenhead.
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possibly elizabeth lingwood
1891
RG12/2616/42/31.
harriet lingwood age 34. b. norwich. wife.
elizabeth age 12. b. hull. daughter.
violet brooklyn age 8. b. west hartlepool. neice.
living at ; 72,strand street,st. andrew,great grimsby.
reg.dist. caister.
the husband is not at home.
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1881
RG11/4780/80/13.
benjamin lingwood age 24. b. norwich. occ. fisherman. head.
harriett age 24. b. grimsby. wife.
elizabeth age 2. b. hull. daughter.
living at 19,st.andrews terrace,kingston-upon-hull.
reg.dist. hull.
think this is the same family that is on the 1891
though harriett birthplace different.
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marriage
ambrose benjamin lingwood
y.o.r. 1877.
qtr. oct/nov/dec.
dist. caister.
county.
lincolnshire.
vol. 7a.
page. 1286.
on the same page. harriet harper.
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Again, you have come up with information about these ASHCROFTS I would never have discovered. They seem such a disfunctional family! The LINGWOODS are easier.
The family story from my mother in law, was that her mother had been on the stage at some time! As she married at 17 I thought it highly unlikely because she had a large family incuding one with Downs Syndrome!
I have found that Violet BROOKLYN has connections to Show Biz because her family are in 1881, in Gateshead Lodging in a Pub - Samuel BROOKLYN 30 and Minnie BROOKLYN 27 are Vocalists from Norwich, with daughters Florence 3 bn W Hartlepool and May 5. Violet fits in with this family.
It gets more interesting!!
Thank you so much for this help.
Noreen
Must get ready our eldest son is taking us out for lunch for Mothering Sunday.
Noreen
York
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here is Andrew in 1861
18 Factory Yard Warrington RG9/2794/75a/41
Mary Burgess head wid 69 washerwoman b.Lancs Warrington
Thomas Walmesley lodger wid 80 gardener b do
Thomas Usher do un 21 vetinary surgeon b Northumberland Newcastle
Leicester Driver do mar 32 blacksmith b Lancs Bolton
Andrew Ashcroft visitor mar 24 bolt maker b Lancs Manchester
Mary Burgess grdaur 7 scholar b do
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yonder peasant
just had a look at 1861 census on ancestry for andrew ashcroft and there appears to be two identical entries apart from one stating born 1837 and the other one stating born 1841
had a look at the actual image and it looks like 24 for his age
do you mind looking again and see what you think.
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possibly andrew in 1841
1841 HO107/583/5/34/24.
thomas ashcroft age 25. occ. cotton machinist.
jane ashcroft age 25.
mary ashcroft age 6.
james ashcroft age 4.
andrew ashcroft age 2.
living at ;cross street,hulme,manchester.
all born in county.
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yes you are right.I have also rechecked it on origins and is 24.There is a sort of mark blocking it on the image but dont know why Ancestry have come up with two.There is another andrew ashcroft around very close in age which makes it difficult to go back further.I am hoping the Driver in the household is significant.
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marr 1856-1860
sarah driver-andrew ashcroft
st marys church birkenhead,
regd at the wirral,cheshire
taken from cheshire BMD
had a look on ancestry the year was 1857.
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cannot find andrew anywhere in 1851
there is one in bolton occ. coalman b. 1833 but that is the only one i can find
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Wozzle
Thank you very much for searching for Andrew ASHCROFT for me. I have ordered the Marriage Certificate of Sarah DRIVER and Andrew ASHCROFT today. This will give more information about him hopefully. You have been so very helpful in breaking down brick walls for me with this research.
Thank you so much.
Noreen
York
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glad to be of help
if you don't mind when you receive the cert would you let us know what it says.
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Wozzle
I was going to do that, as You deserve to know after all the help I have received from you!!
Kind regards
Noreen
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I have today just received the Marriage Certificate of the following couple:-
at The Parish Church, Birkenhead on 30 August 1857
Andrew ASHCROFT full age, Bachelor, Bolt Maker - Residence Birkenhead son of Thomas ASHCROFT, Mechanic
To:
Sarah DRIVER aged 18, Spinster (Residence at time of marriage) was blank, daughter of William DRIVER, Black Smith.
Both signed the Register and Benjamin DRIVER and Mary HOLLAND were witnesses
After Banns by A KNOX Minister.
Many, many thanks to everyone who helped me, to find this couple.
Noreen
York
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ta very much for showing the info
unfortunately i still cannot find andrew in 1851
nor for that matter can i find thomas or jane.
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Wozzle
It is not surprising that there is no sign of them in 1851 when I have found these!
In 1981
PRO Ref RG11 Piece 4768 Folio 52
2 Samuel Place Kingston upon Hull
Sarah becomes Sarah WALLACE aged 39 Manchester
married to Andrew WALLACE aged 39 from Liverpool
Arthur ASHCROFT is Arthur WALLACE aged 10 from Manchester
with siblings Eliza 7 and Richard 5 both born Hull.
In Mar 1882 a Sarah ASHCROFT Marr Andrew WALLACE in Hull on Free BMD which I plan to get next.
I was looking at all the Sarah's with sons Arthur when I found it. An Arthur ASHCROFT is nowhere to be found in the 1881 Census.
I will have to get the birth certificate of one of the 2 younger children, Eliza 7, or Richard 5 born in Hull to find out what they are registered as.
Noreen
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.national archives.gov.uk
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surely in 1851 he would be still andrew ashcroft
he was married in 1857 under the name of andrew ashcroft
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Wozzle
I agree he should be with parents Thomas and Jane in 1851 census, my father's family his mother and father named Kitchen are not on the 1901 so perhaps this family of ASHCROFT were missed in 1851.
I have paid to find my KITCHEN's from Gateshead in the 1911 census, I was delighted with it. Sadly, my grandmother died in 1911 just after the census, so I had the address to find them, from her death certificate.
Noreen
York
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i have just been looking at some other posts to which i replied
on one of these carolew replied to a thread and said that apparently quiet a few of the 1851 censuses whilst in storage received water damage and were badly damaged
maybe your families entry was amongst these
they are available on a cd. and apparently some rootschatters have got hold of them
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Hi Wozzle
I have the 1891 Census for Yorkshire on disks and trawled through part of Hull to find Arthur ASHCROFT aged 20 or perhaps WALLACE all last evening, without success. He might be in Myton, Hull I wonder if you would be able to find him or me?
Thank you for the advice about the CD, regarding the 1851 Census, which I didn't know about. I will have to find out where to get one from, I could ask on the Yorkgen list.
Thank you very much again!!
Noreen
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1891
RG12/3939/85/30
andrew wallace age 50. b. liverpool. occ. dockside labourer. head.
sarah age 50. b. manchester. wife.
arthur age 19. b. ditto. occ. fish labourer. son.
richard age 16. b. hull. occ. fish labourer. son.
living at ; 2,clark ----?,holy trinity,myton,hull,yorkshire.
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Wozzle
I would have found them in the end! Thank you for these, I have ordered the Marriage Certificate for Sarah ASHCROFT/Andrew WALLACE in 1882 and the birth of Richard WALLACE born 1876.
Thank you very much for your kindness and help yet again!
Noreen
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Wozzle
I wonder what you think of this which I found when Googling for ASHCROFT!!
"I am researching DRIVER'S & ASHCROFT'S of Birkenhead. Andrew ASHCROFT married Sarah DRIVER 1857 Birkenhead Andrew ASHCROFT married Mary HARDMAN ( nee DODD) 1873 claiming to be a widower but his first wife was still alive living with Andrew WALLACE in Hull Andrew ASHCROFT & Sarah DRIVER had a daughter Sarah born 1864 who was my grandmother and their other children were Mary Ellen who married Robert Dean Williams of Liverpool and they emigrated to Ontario"
The marriage certificate hasn't arrived yet of Sarah DRIVER/ASHCROFT from Hull registrars. I have emailed the lady, but it was sent to the list in 2004.
Noreen
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if you look at one of my previous answers to this topic
i said that the only andrew ashcroft i could find in 1851 was in bolton and he was a coalman
in 1881 there is a andrew ashcroft age 49 living in bolton occ. coal miner with wife mary
but his oldest child is john age 26. born in little lever,bolton
could this be the one that this lady was talking about and got muddled up.
really i have'nt a clue it all seems very strange
let us know what the cert says if you don't mind
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The email to the person in Canada bounced! I had to wait until early afternoon for my post to arrive! Andrew WALLACE and Sarah ASHCROFT Married after Banns, her father William DRIVER Deceased, Architect His father Richard Wallace Deceased, Blacksmith. Thomas DEARDEN and Matilda HUMPHREYS (The mark of) were Witnesses, in the Parish Church of St Stephen Hull on 6 Feb 1882.
Before they married - Richard Andrew WALLACE Bn 13 Dec 1875, at 4 Leek Court, Mill Street was registered, by Sarah WALLACE formerly DRIVER. Father was Andrew WALLACE Engine Fitter.
I have now requested the Death Certificate of Andrew ASHCROFT, Dec qtr 1878 to see who registered his death in Berkenhead and also ordered a Will found, for an Elizabeth ASHCROFT - Widow from Berkenhead in 1894.
There is a marriage of Andrew ASHCROFT to Mary HARDMAN in Dec qtr 1873 on Free BMD at Birkenhead!! It looks like it might be true!
Noreen
York
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Hi Noreen
Have you got Andrew Ashcroft in the 1871 census?
If he died 1879 he will be buried more than likely in St Mary's Churchyard, where he and Sarah got married. Or he is in Flaybrick Cemetery.
Let me know the date of death and I will look it up for you.
Mel :)
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1871 Info
Theres a Sarah Ashcroft, married aged 30 a dressmaker, born Manchester living as a lodger at 43 William Street, Birkenhead, ref RG10/3745 folio 34 page 68. No other Ashcrofts living with her.
At
187 Beckwith Street, Birkenhead Ref RG10 3747 Folio 46 Page 6
Andrew Ashcroft Head 32 Blacksmith Manchester
Mary E Ashcroft Dau Unmarried 12 Scholar Born Birkenhead
Sarah Ashcroft Dau 6 Scholar, Birkenhead
Fanny Ashcroft Dau 3 Scholar Birkenhead
Hope this helps
Mel
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melagbe the 1871 census has already been posted on the first page of this thread
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Mel
Thank you for this input! The son I am researching Arthur was born in Manchester about 1871 and the other children were born in Birkenhead it looks like she left Andrew ASHCROFT to live in Hull with Andrew WALLACE about that time. I noticed William DRIVER her father was from Keighley Yorkshire. Wozzle very kindly has helped find the census's for me including the 1871.
Thank you for the kind offer to look up Andrew ASHCROFT's grave for me.
Noreen
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Hi Noreen
I have checked today, St Mary's church and Flaybrick both C of E and N C and he is not buried there.
There is a Catholic section in Flaybrick. Otherwise its further a field.
My mistake about the 71 census. I didnt go back far enough ::)
Mel
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Mel
Thank you very much for your help, I am hoping his death certificate comes today! He seems to have been a bigamist! It is the first time I have found one, when researching my family tree!
Kind regards
Noreen
York
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Hi everybody - who kindly helped me find Andrew ASHCROFT, I have just received his death certificate.
He Died 9 Dec 1878 at 26 Oak Tree Place Tranmere. He was 38 and Nut and Bolt maker. Died of Phthisis 3 months Fever 14 days, Cert W. B. Plelan LRCP - 'Informant' Mary ASHCROFT Widow of deceased, present at death 26 Oak Tree Place Tranmere Reg 10 Dec 1878 - John Langley Registrar.
My mum in law Doris ASHCROFT was in Hospital for 6 months with TB in her 20's!
I have tried to find Mary ASHCROFT Widow without success in 1881!
Noreen
York
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With the address given I think that he would be buried in Bebington cemetery. That opened in 1868. ALot of people from Tranmere where buried there.
There are another 2 possibilities a churchyard in New Ferry and Christchurch in Bebington.
I'll have a look later in the week when the library opens.
Mel
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Mel
That is very kind of you, thank you very much!
Noreen
York
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Hi Noreen
Here are the details for Mary in 1881. I went through my discs looking for the address.
Transcribed under Oscroft.
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Mel
That is wonderful and very helpful. I ran the wheel of my office chair over my Cheshire disk and have written to our local Latter Day Saints for another with a £5.00 cheque. That was 2 weeks ago, I wonder if they would have to get another one from Salt Lake City for me?
It was extremely clever of you to think of the address. I found Sarah and Andrew who were missing in 1881 by looking for Andrew by Christian name, age, and place of birth in Hull. He was WALLACE! Still WALLACE in 1891.
Noreen
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I am tracing a tree for a friend who is descended from Andrew Wallace/Sarah Driver through their daughter Eliza Agnes, so Sarah's previous history makes interesting reading.
Coming at this from another direction I have had no problem tracing Andrew/Sarah post 1881, but Andrew's existence pre-1881 is proving harder. I wonder whether the claims about his father (Richard) on his marriage certificate are true.
Richard