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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tobyjug on Friday 07 March 08 20:38 GMT (UK)
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I am looking (and failing miserably) to find:
Frederick Arlesley Talfourd Henderson born c 1867
His wife Mabel Mildred Henderson born c 1871 Married 1890 Islington
Their son Bertram Talfourd Henderson born 1891 (March Quarter) Wood Green, Edmonton
Their daughter, Mabel Kathleen E.M. (possibly Elizabeth Mary) Henderson, born 1892, Wood Green, Edmonton.
I can find Fredericks mother and brother in Reading, which is where he was born, but no sighn of this family. Anything would be appreciated.
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What was Mabel's maiden name?
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/edmonton.html
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Mabel Mildred Smith - sorry - it doesn't really help!
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Mabel (b1892) is here; RG13/1268; F16; P21
with SMITH grandparents. It certainly DOES.
Pauline
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Which census is that reference for and if 1901, is Bertram with her? Can I access that information on-line using the normal on-line sites?
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You can use that ref with any site which allows you to enter a census ref in the search criteria.
When & where was Bertram next known (since you imply that he survived past 1901)?
Pauline
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Thanks Pauline.
Bertram next appears in Hartlepool where he married Catherine Peverell in 1914. How or why he went there we have no idea, possibly because of the war. His father was a "gentleman" on his marriage certificate, his grandfather a solicitor and his g.grandfather a "gentleman" Bertram is a "shipyard labourer" at the time of his marriage! Incidently, the grandfather Charles Henderson and his wife Elizabeth Mary (nee Cooke) are also elusive on the 1861 census, and we don't really know where their younger son Frederick was born, although their eldest was born in Reading in 1858. Perhaps they were in the army or serving overseas?
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Hi Tobyjug,
Did you manage to find your people with that 1901 census reference or would you like me to write them out for you?
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Will you transcribe the census for Charles & Eliza. Mary (with refs) so that we can see the whole picture?
Pauline
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I can find Fredericks mother and brother in Reading, which is where he was born,
The 1881 states CAVERSHAM, which is Oxon at that time.
use the images at freebmd.rootsweb.com to confirm where charles (c1861) was born, and also check for frederick
Pauline
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RG10 1427 41 6
... transcribing ;D ...
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Gawd, amazing what that little extra snippet can bring.
Well spotted. Pauline
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1861. RG9/747; F66; P1
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Sorry, got called away - doing the 71 now ...
OK, at last ... some words difficult to read so a second opinion may be worthwhile:
1871
Caversham
Gr...e Hi..
Charles Henderson head mar 54 solicitor and landowner b Berks Reading
Elizabeth Mary wife 44 Middx Hammersmith
Charles Edward (transcribed as Turberville but I'm unsure of surname) son unmar 13 b Reading
Edward A.T. same surname son 4 b Caversham
and 3 servants:
Louisa Bryant
Ellen Herridge
Charles Bunley?
RG10/ 1427/ 41/ 6
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1861
RG9/ 747/ 66/ 1
162 Friar St Reading
Charles Henderson head mar 44 solicitor b Reading
Elizabeth M wife 36 b Hammersmith
Charles ET Henderson son 3 b Reading
2 servants:
Eliza Brown
Mary McCarthy
What's going on with the boys surnames? When I transcribed the 71 I thought that Mary must have been married before to Mr Turberville. This will be worth investigating.
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Hi Guys and big thanks.
You have been very busy while I was sleeping! I may be able to help with the Turberville bit. It would appear that Charles Henderson's father, Edward married Sarah Earles (Not verified yet) in 1811, in London. She appears to be the daughter of William and Penelope Marner. A Penelope Turberville married an Edward Marner 4 years before Penelope Marner married William Earles, both marriages being at St mary, Reading. I'm assuming she had been widowed and retained her married name. St Mary, Reading, which is where Edward Henderson was baptised and his son Charles married Elizabeth Cooke, parents to the Turberville boys so all seem to link. Why the two boys changed from Turberville to Talfourd is an absolute mystery, although Thomas Noon Talfourd was returned as M.P.for Reading at this time. Maybe their dad admired him. Thanks for all the references, but I'm not quite sure how to use them to get to the information.
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Hi tobyjug,
Sounds like a complicated family ;D, but hope it's making some sense.
The references are no use unless you have access to Ancestry or other pay site, where you can enter the reference numbers, which will take you to the correct page of the census where you'll find your family.
I'm signing off now but if you need any more lookups I'll be back tomorrow - or someone else may be able to assist in the meantime.
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The obvious thing to do now would be obtain Bertram's (1891) birth certificate.
That will have an address which can be referenced in census.
Pauline
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Thanks Pauline
It's already ordered, although there appears to be some delay and I'll need to follow it up. Thanks to everyone who has helped so far. I'll try to find the 1901 reference you gave me on one of the pay sites.
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Hi again tobyjug,
1901
RG13/ 1268/ 16/ 21
Southgate
no 46 Livingstone Rd
no 7
John Smith head 73 woolen? retired b Notts Charlton on Trent
Mary wife 63 b Lambeth
Cyril son 22 stockbrokers clerk b Hackney
Mabel Henderson grandau (possibly listed as servt crossed thru) b Woodgreen
1901
RG13/ 882/ 149/ 37 (ref via by Pauline)
Eastbourne Susses
"Sunnyside"
St Lenards Rd
Francis JE Cook head 58 Retired army officer b India Calcutta
Georgina C wife 57
John Oliver Surtees f-in-law wid 77 Retired Solicitor b London
Mable Henderson servt wid 32 cook domestic b London
plus 2 other servts
What do you think?
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Wow!
That's unexpected but starts to make more sense. Frederick was a solicitor so there may be a link there - and the Cook link - and the grandaughter being with grandparent while mum works. This is definitely the right Mabel as her birth is registered Wood Green. I'll need to find a death for Frederick - although he may have been abroad and I'd still love to know where 10 year old Bertram is. I can't believe how helpful you guys have been and I am so grateful for your help.
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Just to complete this and give hope to everyone with a fruitless search, I have now found Bertram! He was in Hartlepool and his mum was now "married" (nothing on BMD) to a John Coulson. John worked in the shipyard where Bertram began his working life and B's mum is described as a 'professional pianist'. Suddenly it brought to mind a conversation with my m. in law about how Bertie's mother had been a beautiful pianist!!! Birth locations for Mabel and Bertram match too. It also explains why he had a N.East accent when he was born in London. Thanks to everyone who has helped, especially Ruskie and Pauline. Note that this is now successfully COMPLETE.
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Yay, fantastic news tobyjug - thanks for letting us know.
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Hello everyone, I came across this message board by pure accident. My hubby is the Grandson of Bertram Henderson .... please answer back .....
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Welcome to rootschat Ange. :)
I'm afraid that tobyjug hasn't been on rootschat since May 2008 but if he has enabled notifications in his settings he should be sent an email saying you have replied to this thread.
You need to make three posts before the Personal Messaging system is activated, so I will send tobyjug a PM on your behalf. Lets hope he still has the same email address. :)
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Hi Ange
I’ve only just gone back onto Rootchat after ages. I too am married to one of Bertram Henderson’s grandsons, Ian , son of Joe his eldest. You are probably way ahead of me on the family tree jigsaw puzzle but we are family and should help each other out. I think there is a way to contact each other privately through the forum but I’m not quite sure how it works. Hope you get this.
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Hi, I have just picked up researching my family history again. My maternal grandmother, Marie Louise Henderson, was the sister of Bertram Talfourd Henderson. I know a fair bit about the Hendersons and only today was looking at Bertram and his family. Please let me know what help you are looking for.
Regards Tom
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Did you get my reply? Just checking because as I am new to Rootschat, is there something about needing to send three messages before they are seen. If so this us my second message.
Regards Tom
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Hi Tom
Welcome back ;D
tobyjug hasn't been online here for a couple of weeks but should receive an email notification that you have posted and hopefully come back soon.
Dawn
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Thank you Dawn