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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Jamie H on Monday 10 March 08 06:12 GMT (UK)
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I've got two conflicting places for the baptism of Richard WILKS. On the 1851 census it says "St Johns" which I've been told is Bedwardine. And from somewhere I have his baptism place as St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
I have his birthplace as Hallow.
Does this add up to one Richard WILKS, or two of them?
Jamie
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Doesn't the census usually give place of birth, rather than place of baptism?
Could he have been born in Hallow, but lived in St Johns parish, and been baptised in St Bartholomews church? ~ Perhaps if that was the parish of one of his parents?
I have different birthplaces for the same person on different censuses.
Eg one says Ireland & one says America!
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I think you are right. St Johns must just be a place, or parish. I think I need to post another question re St Bartholomew's church to find answers here.
Many thanks for your reply,
Jamie
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I have a feeling that my great aunt, now deceased, said that she had lived in the area of St Johns in Worcester.
Someone else on here was looking at St John Bedwardine. I don't know if they are one and the same, but a local should know.
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I've checked maps and they seem to be the same place.
This site has a map link:
'Bell Ringing at St John in Bedwardine' Worcesterhttp://www.wdcra.org.uk/worce3.htm
If you key in to Google:
"Map of Saint Johns, Worcester"
You will get another similar map.
Then you can see that they are the same.
There is more info here:
St John in Bedwardine, Worcester
~ A SHORT HISTORY OF THE CHURCH AND PARISH
A Vision of Worcester St John Bedwardine (inc links to census reports)
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/unit_page.jsp?u_id=10349473
St John’s church website:
http://www.stjohninbedwardine.co.uk/
A quote:
'The part of Worcester we call St John’s was originally an independent township, with the Prior and Convent of Worcester (i.e. the Cathedral today) as Lord of the Manor. It has only been part of Worcester since 1837.'
http://www.stjohninbedwardine.co.uk/parishhistory.html
http://www.achurchnearyou.com/venue.php?V=18634
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Thank you very much for all that information. I was especially interested in the bit you quoted from the parish history site which said St. Johns was only part of Worcester since 1837. I'd better check to see what county it came under before that. I know that at some stage part of Gloucs became Worcs. so maybe that's it. St Johns was in Gloucs.
:-)
Jamie
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Hello Jamie
Just to clarify, Worcester is a city within the county of Worcestershire and St Johns has been a suburb of that city for many years. So no need to look in another county!
Historically Hallow was a chapelry of Grimley. There were no Richard Wilkes baptised at either Hallow or St John in Bedwardine (St Johns) circa 1802. There was one Wilkes family only in St Johns at that time - Thomas and his wife Hannah. They had at least three children baptised 1799, 1801 and their son William baptised on 5 June 1802, so that would seem to rule that family out. I can also confirm that at that time, Richard was not a common name in the three parishes and none of the illegitimate boys baptised around 1802 had the first name Richard.
So it is looking probable that “your” Richard Wilkes was baptised at Grimley and presumably he was the one who married Maria Severn there on 20 June 1826 The parish registers for 1802 only show the info you have from www.familysearch.org. “ December 29 1802 Richard Wilkes son of Joseph and Ann Wilkes”. I didn’t have time to check if there was any extra info re Richard’s marriage.
You could ask for someone to do a lookup for Joseph Wilkes and Ann’s marriage in the Worcestershire Marriage Index volumes at the Local & Family History Centre in Worcester. Joseph and Ann may well have come from elsewhere - even a parish on the opposite bank of the River Severn! You can check Grimley marriages on Hugh Wallis IGI batch numbers website at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyWorcester.htm#PageTitle
Not specifically relevant to you enquiry but some of Hallow parish became part of St John in Bedwardine parish in 1885 – so very confusing!!
See British History on-line:-
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43138
HTH
Nemo
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Thank you for the clarification, Nemo. Yes, I think my Richard WILKS is the one who married Maria SEVERN and baptised at Grimley.
I do have the information that Joseph and Ann were married at Winchcombe, Gloucs. Knowing that Richard is an uncommon name leads me to suppose that just possibly I might find Joseph WILKS ancestry if I look for a Richard as his father.
Richard WILKS seems to have been an only child. I can't find any siblings. But, I did notice that Thomas and Hannah WILKS, who you mention, had children with mostly the same names as Richard WILKS of Grimley. So, I have wondered if there was a connection somewhere – across one generation.
Thank you for the Hugh Wallis IGI batch numbers site.
Jamie
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Jus to confuse you sorry am replying to an earlier post re Joseph and Ann Wilks possibility of 1841 1851 Census.
On 1841 @ Stow on the Wold Gloucestershire ref HO 107/366/21
Joseph Wilks 65 Weaver Not born in Co of Glouc
Ann 60 Yes born Glouc
Hannah 25 Daughter " " "
1851 @ The House Grimley Worc there is son Richard with wife Marai and family.
Also found a Death of a James Wilks June qtr 1841 ref Martley XV111 then in brackets (3) 1 (2) whatever that means Apologies if this is a load of rubbish. I did try. You said Ann Bap at Martley????
Pam
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Pam, thank you. The Joseph WILKS and Ann you mention could certainly be the ones I'm looking for. Dates are bit elastic in those days, so maybe it could fit. If it is them, they were married in 1794 in Winchcombe, Gloucs. If Ann was 60 in 1841 I worked out that she'd have been 13 when married, but I've been told that the ages were rounded down for the census, so she might have been a few years older. Son Richard was, as you say, living with his own household by then. And so Hannah could be a sister – a much younger sister – but still it's possible.
And, wouldn't it fit, too, with Ann being born at Martley because bits of Worcs were in Gloucs. in those days?
Jamie
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Hi Jamie
Here are the results of my look up at Worcester History Centre for GRIMLY
Joseph Wilks = Ann (IGI 29 DEC 1802) there are no Banns or Marriage on parish registers
Banns John Wilks & Elizabeth Weaver 29 SEP, 6 OCT, 13 OCT 1811
MAR John Wilks (B) = Elizabeth Weaver (S) 20 OCT 1811
Wits - Edward ________, Mary Harrison
Searched 1794 - 1815 for siblings of Richard C1802 but was unable to find any
also unable to trace Joseph's line any further back as his baptism cant be found
All the very best
Phil
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Thank you very much indeed, Phil. It's very kind of you to do this. I must see if I can definitely link John WILKS and Elizabeth WEAVER to Joseph and Ann.
I hope your own searches for your family were successful.
Jamie :)
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Phil, one quick question – you found
Joseph Wilks = Ann (IGI 29 DEC 1802) there are no Banns or Marriage on parish registers
Did you mean that there is a marriage for Joseph and Ann on the IGI in Grimley?
Jamie
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Hi Jamie
yes it means just what it says (there's nothing in the banns or marriages for this couple) & its another error on the GRO & its by far from the first time that this sort of thing has cropped up on the IGI where a baptism has been invented as it was thought it should be there.
All the very best
Phil
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Thank you, Phil.
Jamie
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I am related to John Wilks who married Elizabeth Weaver in 1811. They moved with most of their children to New York City around 1843. He was a stair builder and so were his sons. The 1841 census in England lists him as a builder.
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I am related to John Wilks who married Elizabeth Weaver in 1811. They moved with most of their children to New York City around 1843. He was a stair builder and so were his sons. The 1841 census in England lists him as a builder.
Do you happen to know if your John Wilks had connections to any of my Wilks who came from the Hallow/Grimley area in Worcestershire? Joseph Wilks, Richard Wilks, Thomas Wilks?
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Here is what I know about John. He was born in Worcester on 7 Nov 1790 and his middle initial was V. I have this information from my grandmother's genealogical records. His children with Elizabeth Weaver (26 Feb 1790) were:
Hannah (21 Mar 1812), Edwin (6 Dec 1813), Stephen (13 July 1819), Eliza (5 Nov 1821), Hannah Maria (10 Aug 1824), John Hall (25 Oct 1825), Samuel (20 Jan 1827), Thomas Smith (17 May 1828), Elibethas (26 Nov 1829). He last appears in the US Census in 1870, living north of New York City. I would love to know who his parents and siblings were.
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I've got a Joseph Wilks who married Ann Reeves 4 Dec. 1794 at Winchcombe in Gloucestershire. They had a son Richard born 1800 at Hallow (baptised Dec 1802) – the only child I could find. Richard married Maria Severn and they had Thomas, Ann, Mary Ann, Caroline, Charlotte, William, Hannah, John (bap. April 1843) and Sarah.
There could be a connection with your John born in 1790 … I'd like to find siblings for my Richard. It seems odd that he appears to have been an only child.
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Good evening all, just came across this thread via a google search for Richard Wilks and Maria Severn as I am trying to extend my tree...
(http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p588/o0OWILKSO0o/56219FD9-C765-47B2-B892-0FF0AE82B6BE_zpszdxmw30v.jpeg) (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/o0OWILKSO0o/media/56219FD9-C765-47B2-B892-0FF0AE82B6BE_zpszdxmw30v.jpeg.html)
Is anyone still active?
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Hullo. I'm descended from Thomas Wilks and Elizabeth Young. They had a fourth child which doesn't appear on your tree - Emily Wilks. Here is a bit of information. I hope it helps. If I could work out how to do it, I could send you the family tree :-)
1841 Census. Hallow Parish. Living at Sinton Green: Richard WILKS age 40, agricultural labourer living with Mariah WILKS age 35, William age 10, Sarah age 8,Caroline age 5, Hannah age 3,Charlotte age 3 months. (Info from Lynne on eng-worcestershire@british-genealogy.com List 1 June 2004.
1861 Census. Hallow Village
Thomas WILKS H M 34 plumber glazier & painter empl. 1 man & 1 boy Worc. Grimley
Elizabeth WILKS W M 26 Milliner & Dressmaker Worc. Hallow
Mark WILKS S 4 Scholar Worcs. Hallow
Emily WILKS D 3 Worc. Hallow
Emily REEVES App. U 16 Milliner & dressmaker, Worcs. Inkberrow
John CLARKE App U 14 glazier and Painter Worcs. Witley
Grimley Baptisms: 1827 Mar 24 Thomas son of Richard & Maria Wilkes Sinton Green Labr. [Submitted by “Doreen” of Rootsweb Worcs. List, but online IGI P018071 gives christening date as 21 Mar 1827, Grimley, Worcs]
Marr. cert. held, no. 123. Thomas Wilks aged 28, bachelor, painter, resident in Hallow. Father richard Wilks, labourer. Bride aged 21, spinster, resident in hallow, father Richard Young a blacksmith. Witnesses; Mark Young and Harriet Woodward. After Banns, Herbert G. Pepye officiating.
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I think St Johns, Bedwardine used to be the main parish of the City of Worcester.
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Hullo. I'm descended from Thomas Wilks and Elizabeth Young. They had a fourth child which doesn't appear on your tree - Emily Wilks. Here is a bit of information. I hope it helps. If I could work out how to do it, I could send you the family tree :-)
1841 Census. Hallow Parish. Living at Sinton Green: Richard WILKS age 40, agricultural labourer living with Mariah WILKS age 35, William age 10, Sarah age 8,Caroline age 5, Hannah age 3,Charlotte age 3 months. (Info from Lynne on eng-worcestershire@british-genealogy.com List 1 June 2004.
1861 Census. Hallow Village
Thomas WILKS H M 34 plumber glazier & painter empl. 1 man & 1 boy Worc. Grimley
Elizabeth WILKS W M 26 Milliner & Dressmaker Worc. Hallow
Mark WILKS S 4 Scholar Worcs. Hallow
Emily WILKS D 3 Worc. Hallow
Emily REEVES App. U 16 Milliner & dressmaker, Worcs. Inkberrow
John CLARKE App U 14 glazier and Painter Worcs. Witley
Grimley Baptisms: 1827 Mar 24 Thomas son of Richard & Maria Wilkes Sinton Green Labr. [Submitted by “Doreen” of Rootsweb Worcs. List, but online IGI P018071 gives christening date as 21 Mar 1827, Grimley, Worcs]
Marr. cert. held, no. 123. Thomas Wilks aged 28, bachelor, painter, resident in Hallow. Father richard Wilks, labourer. Bride aged 21, spinster, resident in hallow, father Richard Young a blacksmith. Witnesses; Mark Young and Harriet Woodward. After Banns, Herbert G. Pepye officiating.
I will PM you my email address and you could send it if thats ok. Will be good to compare the 2.
Mark
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Hullo. I'm descended from Thomas Wilks and Elizabeth Young. T
Where do you fit into the tree, I am Mark married to Sandra right at the bottom on mine, well less my 2 boys that is.
Mark