RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Huntingdonshire => England => Huntingdonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Gillg on Wednesday 12 March 08 17:20 GMT (UK)
-
I'm looking for a John Cox born c 1840, married but not living with his wife Annie in 1891, almost certainly in Hunts (she was in Lancs). Ancestry index shows one John living on his own at that time, but I fear this might be the widowed brick labourer I've come across before in 1881.
Another John Cox around the same age was living in Graffham with his wife Ann/Fran and children in 1881. I'd be interested to know where they were in 1891, too, if someone could help, please.
Just trying to solve the riddle of whether my gt-grandmother's second husband was also her cousin. ;D That may sound complicated, but when you know that his sister was married to the brother of her first husband's sister's husband, you'll know why I'm going crazy... ::)
Many thanks
Gillg
-
This looks like the "other" one
1891
Grafham
Hunts
John Cox head M 45 ag lab
Ann wife 49
Fanny louisa daughter 10
all b grafham
RG12 12442 164 7
Suz
-
Hi Gillg,
Do you know where your John was born?
I have found a John Cox b Buckden age 51 living with his mother Sarah age 81 b Godmanshester.
This was in 1891 in Buckden. Could this be him?
Sue
-
Thanks, Suz
That takes care of that one, then. He can't have married gt-gran in 1884!
Thank you.
Gill
-
Sue
John of Buckden is a distinct possiblility. Does it say whether he was married and what his occupation was? And the mother of the one I believe to be gt-gran's second husband would have been Sarah. Maybe he left Annie and her children in Lancs to visit his elderly (ailing?) mother. Is he a resident or a visitor? Buckden is good, too. It has been mentioned in connection with him. He actually died in Hunts (possibly Buckden) too.
Thanks so much for this.
Gill
-
Hi Again Gillg,
John and his mother are both down as wids.
Johns occ is General dealer and his mother is down as living with son.
Address is 18 Mill Road.
Sue
-
Sue
This has to be my man! According to my records "my" John was born c1840 in Buckden. His mother was Sarah born c1811 in Godmanchester. The only thing that doesn't match is the status widower, but he does seem to have been separated from his wife anyway, as he also died in Hunts while she was in permanent residence with her children in Lancs.
Now I've found him in 1881 living with mother Sarah in Marske in Guisborough, Yorks with 6 year old nephew William Cox, who was born there. John is an Ironstone Miner. Still trying to work out the title nephew, as John only had two sisters, as far as I know. Incidentally, John's birthplace is given as Buckdew, Hunts.
Sarah lived on to the age of 93 and her death is registered in St Neots. Not sure about John's death, as there are several which might fit.
Where is he in 1871, I wonder, and does he then have a wife? There's a possibility in the Ancestry index in Cheshire and in 1861 in Hunts. Could one of you kind persons please help?
Thanks so much for the information so far. It certainly seems now that the relationship scenario which I mentioned in my first message is correct.
Regards,
Gill :)
-
Hi Gill,
Have you got this 1841 Buckden
James Cox age 32 occ ag lab
Sarah Cox age 30
Mary Cox age 6
Sarah Cox age 4
Betsey Cox age 2
John Cox age 6 months
All born Huntingdonshire
Sue
-
And in 1851 Buckden
Sarah Cox head age 40 b Godmanchester occ charwoman
Sarah dau age 14
Elizabeth dau age 12
John son age 10
James son age 6
George S son age 4
All born Buckden except Sarah, Betsey is now Elizabeth. Address 108 High Street
Sue
-
This is 1871 Buckden
Thomas Leadon head age 48 occ ag lab
Betsey wife age 33
John son age 13 occ ag lab
Mary dau age 11
Lucy dau age 9
Sarah Cox mother age 62 b Godmanchester
All except Sarah b Buckden. Address 100 (looks like) Hardwick but its next door to The Crown pub
Sue
-
Sue
This is terrific! Yes, John's father was James. And I see from the 1851 that John did have some younger brothers, which could explain that nephew in Yorks.
Dare I cheekily ask if you were able to find John in 1861 & 71? Don't want much, do I? ::) As I said, he could be in Cheshire in 71.
Strange how so many of my relatives were living next door to a pub. One of them even owned a pub with the fascinating name of "The Dog and Doublet".
Many, many thanks :D
Gill
-
Hi Gill,
Had no luck finding your John in other census. He must be somewhere though.
Had a look but couldnt see your James but did find George in 1861 age 14, lodger,
living in Eye Northamptonshire.
Hope this helps
Sue
-
Thanks for trying, anyway, and thanks for all your efforts, Sue and Suz. :D This family certainly moved about a bit.
This string has been really helpful, and I've just heard from someone else that "the other John" in Graffham was the son of James and Betsy, which helps to differentiate the two, as well.
Best regards,
Gill ;)
-
Think this is your James in 1871 in Hertfordshire
James Cox head age 25 b Buckden occ lab
Sarah wife age 33 b Flamstead Herts
John Lee son age 4 b Cheam Surrey
Annie Emily dau age 2 b Abbots Langley Herts
Elizabeth Maria dau age 6 months b Rickmansworth Herts
Address 36 Woodcock Hill
Sue
-
Like I said, Sue, they do move about a bit. Thanks again.
Gill ;)
-
Kia Ora Gill
Interesting because I always had suspicions about the Fairys in Buckden. It's reasonably close to Gt Catworth as I recall and all our names are used ad infinitum!
Somewhere .... I have the Parish Fairy transcription! ::)
Haven't you a Sarah Fairey born circa 1811 somewhere - don't suppose she married COX by any chance or is that muddying the waters too far?
Cheers
Marlene
-
There's no COX/FAIRY marriage in Hunts in the right timeframe. The only James COX/ Sarah marriage was in 1830 in Godmanchester - Sarah CHURCH. Sarah Cox's birthplace in 1851 was also Godmanchester...
David
-
Hi Marlene and David
Sarah Church c1811 was the sister of my gt-gt-grandfather William Church jnr (remember William the soldier's son who was born in Woolwich that you helped me with, David?) This is what makes this story so complicated.
Sarah (Church) and her husband James Cox had, amongst other children, a daughter Sarah 1837 and a son John 1840.
Sarah (Cox) 1837 married Charles Bodger of Graffham.
Charles Bodger's brother James married Naomi Fairey and emigrated to Australia.
Naomi Fairey's brother Amos married Annie Church (my gt-grandparents).
Annie Church was the daughter of William jnr and therefore the cousin of Sarah 1837.
To make matters even more complicated, after the death of her husband Amos, Annie Church Fairey married her cousin John Cox, brother of Sarah 1837.
You need to make a diagram to work it all out!
Not sure about Sarah Fairey 1811, Marlene. I have one from 1801. Please don't complicate this any further, pleeeeeease........ ::)
Cheers
Gill
-
I remember now. I knew Church rang a bell
David
-
Ding dong :D Can you hear a peal of laughter from me?
G
-
WHEW! It must have been Sarah 1801 I was thinking of- now I can go to bed witha clear head ::) without bells, whistles & the fluttering of Fairy wings.
You guys are too clever for words - my head is full of Cricket(s)!
Bye for now!
The Fairy Down Under!
-
Just a p.s. to show that John was not alone working in the Yorkshire Ironstone Mines and who that nephew belonged to. Here's John's brother:
1881 Marske in Guisborough, Yorks
3 Dundas Street New Marske
James Cox Head 38 M b Buckden Labourer in Ironstone Mines
Sarah Wife 43 b Flampstead, Herts
John Leo Son 14 b Cheam, Surrey Labourer in Ironstone Mines
Elizabeth M Dau 10 b Rickmansworth, Herts
Eliza M Dau 8 b Marske, Yorks
William J Son 6 b Marske
Alice Dau 4 b Louth, Lincs
Florence S Dau 1 b Maddington, Lincs
Robert Robinson Lodger 47 b Scotland Labourer in Ironstone Mines
And that naughty little William 6 must have skipped along the road to his uncle and Gran and got recorded twice. (Remember those bad lads who appeared on both ends of the school photo, having run round while the camera was moving?)
1881 Marske in Guisborough
6 West Terrace, New Marske
John Cox Head U 41 b Buckden Ironstone Miner
Sarah Cox Mother W 71 b Godmanchester Housekeeper
William Cox Nephew 6 b New Marske Scholar
Thanks to all again
Gill ;)
-
I did that in our college photo. Ran round the back so I was on twice. But the second one was with back to camera, so I'm preserved for posterity with a front and back view on the same photo.
And I haven't grown up since!
David
-
Hope you were severely chastised!
Dare you to post it so we can all see your misdemeanours!
Signed
Former teacher with a penchant for pinching naughty boy's ears!
-
Marlene - how politically incorrect! :o Though when I was first teaching we had a Master for Discipline, whose job it was to cane or slipper (with a gym shoe) any boy who stepped out of line.
David - I'm shocked, but not entirely surprised! I do hope you weren't mooning on that rear view. ;)
Gill
-
I excuse my self with the thought that I had over 50 kids in my class in a central city school with 49 nationalities in the early 70s.
Flower power hadn't reached them and they were all twice my size!
But no - one used 4 letter words or dared to play up in my class! I wonder what they remember of me ....!
Cheers
Marlene
-
So you thought you'd heard the last of John Cox's history, did you? Here's the sting in the tail.
Just to re-cap, John Cox married my gt-grandmother Annie Fairey nee Church in 1884. The marriage cert says he was a bachelor and she a widow.
In 1891 Annie is in Lancs, married, and he is living with his mother Sarah in Buckden, widower.
In 1901 Annie has reverted to her first married name, Fairey, and is a "widow". We have just found John in 1901, married to another lady, Eliza A, living with her and her daughter and granddaughter in Offord Cluny. :o :o :o A check on FreeBMD shows a marriage of John Cox and Eliza Ann Skilton in 1892!
My first feeling was that Annie and John had divorced, which could account for her reverting to her previous name, but I can't find a record of that divorce. Now I'm wondering if John was a bigamist! :-\ It could be significant that Annie inherited money from her father's estate around the time that they appear to have split up, and I know that Annie's children were horrified at the marriage in the first place, partly because it took place very soon after their father's death and partly because apparently there was a great deal of drunken celebration at the time. ::)
Oh, what a tangled web we weave......... :'(
Gill
-
I Just knew Coro Street got it's plot ideas from some where!
How did one get an annulment? Perhaps John didn't like independent women?
"But your Honour, I had no idea I was marrying him! I was under the weather m'lord".
There was a marriage of a Thomas Skilton to Eliza Ann Geary June 1879 St Neots - might that be a connection?
Can't with for the next instalment!
Cheers
Marlene
-
Marlene
This is getting very interesting. Did I mention that Eliza Ann's daughter is Amelia Ruth Skilton b Dec Q 1885 in St Neots? Eliza Ann says she was born in Offord Darcy c1856 and I see a birth for an Eliza Geary in Dec q 1858 reg St Neots, which just about fits. John is recorded as 60 and Eliza as 45 in 1901, so quite an age difference. I can't see a death for Thomas Skilton which would allow her to be free to marry John in 1892, at least not one in Hunts. Perhaps their marriage was dissolved as well. I think I'm getting into the realms of fantasy here, maybe.
Incidentally, I was recently given a handy tip (thanks, Mean_genie) on how to trace divorces, which is worth passing on here:
You search the online Catalogue
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp?j=1
using the surname as a search term, restricting it to series J77, and if the name is a common one you may want to restrict it by date too. The result will give the full names of both parties, and sometimes the co-respondent if there is one.
Gill ;D
-
Hi
There is the death of a Thomas Skilton in 1895 aged 73 in Hunts.
Perhaps he was in the Workhouse - old age /seniity - admitted after the 1891 census, and the age might be incorrect??
I'm presuming you have the 1891- I don't!
The plot might yet thicken!
Off to byes with that thought!
Cheers
Marlene
-
Yes I saw that one and kind of dismissed it because of his age. If 73 was the correct age or thereabouts, that would have made him old enough to be her father - remember she was 45 on the 1901 census and he was 73 in 1895. (What am I saying? It does happen. One of my other more modern relatives twice married men older than her father :o)
I don't have the 1891 for Thomas, but must say that I think a more likely candidate for the death in 1895 would be Thomas born c 1822 in Sturmer, Essex, but living in 1881 in Godmanchester. He was an umbrella maker and had a wife called Permelia and a son called Heychiak. (Where do they get 'em from?) The family appear to have lived in Hunts from 1851 at least from the Ancestry index. Various spellings of Permelia, as you might imagine. Thomas is in the 1891, too. "Pamelia" died in 1911 aged 88.
The search goes on....
Gill
-
To return to the subject of Annie Fairey and John Cox - the difficulties with Annie's name continue even after her death. In 1891 she calls herself Mrs Cox, married, though her husband is not with her: in 1901 she is widow Fairey (the John Cox I believe to be the correct one didn't die till 1902). She died suddenly in 1922 at the age of 83, and there was a Coroner's inquest, however it was quickly decided that the death was from natural causes. Because of the inquest, it was the Coroner who signed as informant, naming her as Annie Cox otherwise Fairey.
A newspaper report of the death, presumably from the Coroner's court, named her as Annie Cox. The announcement of death and the funeral report in the same paper named her as Annie Fairey. This might have had something to do with the fact that the funeral director was her nephew, Charley Fairey, or maybe her children wanted the Fairey name emphasised rather than Cox.
I'm stumped as to how to proceed with unravelling the mystery of John and Annie's marriage, and I've looked for but can't find a different John Cox born c1840 with father James. But you would think if someone was intending to commit bigamy, he wouldn't choose to marry for the second time in a neighbouring village. ::)
Gill :-\
-
Perhaps after he'd been gone for 7 years she had him declared dead. But of course if at the other end of the country he remarried "widower, my wife died in Lancashire" he'd still be a bigamist. But who would bother to check?
David
-
Hi David
Well, I suppose we'll never know, but my Fairey grandfather*, Annie's son, used to talk mysteriously about a Black Sheep in the family. I think my father probably knew who it was, but sadly my brother and I never found out, as we were considered too young to be told.
Gill
* I had a Fairey grandmother, too, but sadly no fairy godmother! ;D
-
Hi Gill
Just out of curiousity have you got John Cox's 2nd marriage cert?
Could you ask, specifying that he must be a bachelor or a widower? (you'd need to think about which state of matrimony is most useful to you! ???)
I'm left wondering if your John Cox actually died elsewhere and is therefore hard to track - not unlike my William Fairy- it took four years of harrasment to the Hunts Record office before they found his birth with the correct parents and it hasn't yet turned up on Free BMD! In fact they have rescanned some of those pages so we have Gerrard Fairey June Q 1848 and Hannah Farey June Q 1848 but I suspect they have omitted the page with William Fairy which I found by checking the very old fiche at Wellington Archives! Very difficult to read but it was there!
I didn't tell them I knew his birth date, partly to ensure I got the right one!
Perhaps a similar error has occurred with the birth of your Amos and John Cox's death?
Just a thought!
Cheers
Marlene
-
Hi Marlene
No, I don't have John's second marriage cert, though I'd love to see it. It would also be interesting to compare signatures in the marriage register for the marriages to Annie & Eliza, to confirm once and for all whether this is the same fellow. I've been bombarding everyone on GR with a John Cox of approx the same age, to see if I can find him, but got lots of negative answers. I did find someone who had Eliza on the outer twiglets of her tree, but she only knew about Thomas Skilton.
John Cox is quite a common name, so he's not all that easy to trace, especially if he stepped out of the county.
As far as Amos Fairey is concerned, we know that he was entered on the 1841 as 20 days old. Calculating backwards from the census date, that would make his birth date 17th May, or thereabouts, depending on the accuracy of his parents' memories. But as you know, neither the Record Office nor the Register Office in Hunts can find his birth record, though they have all his siblings recorded.
Thanks for your helpful suggestions.
Gill :)
-
Hey long shot, but my great great grandfather Darrington Green, lived in the same house as Thomas and Permelia and Heychiak. He was 12 years old and an orphan. This is as far back as I can go. Does anyone know any information or how at 12 he came to live with Thomas and Permelia? Any help would be hugely appreciated.
-
Using the new GRO index his birth was registered at Huntingdon Oct/Nov/Dec quarter 1868 mothers maiden name KING
Volume 03B page 253 as Dorrington Green
You might also check the poor law records for Godmanchester for any record of placement, he was not necessarily a true orphan, if the mother could no longer support the family children were apprenticed out, or in the case of Dorrington was able to go to school.