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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: roby on Friday 21 March 08 02:35 GMT (UK)
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Hi all, :)
I have hit a brick wall.
My ancestor Isabella McGregor was b. abt 1791 in Hexham according to her death cert. No parents noted. ???
She lived there for approximately 15 years and then in approx 1806 moved to Ayton, Berwickshire and married James Edington, on 22/10/1815 in Ayton and died there in 1855.
I have checked all the on line resources and I can't check parish records as I live in australia.
Can anybody help!!!
I believe that Hexham may have been a market town and it has been suggested to me that the McGregor's from Berwickshire herded cattle between Scotland and England????
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Roby
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Hexham had a cattle market as the town manufactured leather gloves, but the Highland drovers mostly came to Stagshaw Bank annual Midsummer fair near Corbridge on the present A68. One of the local gentry about that time purchased a Gaelic grammar to be able to communicate better with the drovers. Berwickshire would not be a likely origin for a Highland McGregor though.
I suppose he married a local girl and found a job. Because of the superior wages in industry, shipping and mining frther down theTyne, Scots were often recruited from across the border. About a quarter of the population of Hexham were members of the Scotch Church, ie Presbyterian immigrants. If no one else reacts in the meantime, I will look Isabella up when I go into town next week.
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Hi
You can check parish records in Australia if you can get to an LDS history centre. They are worldwide and listed on www.familysearch.org You can order the film of any parish register - not just the ones that appear on the IGI. It is also worth joining the local family history group for the county as they may have published transcriptions. NDFHS in this case.
Andrea
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Hi
I have looked for Isabella Edington in Ancestry's index to the 1851 census of Scotland. They have a 57 year old Isabella living with her spouse Agnes, a 54 year old shoemaker and two children, Archibald, 26, and Ellen, 23. Unfortunately I do not have access to the film copy for Scottish censuses (an active subscription to scotlandspeople is needed for that) and so cannot check whether Agnes is or is not a mistranscription of James. The transcription gives England as the location for Isabella's birth. The census was taken on the 30/31 March 1851 so if the age is correct she was born between 30 Mar 1793 and 30 March 1794. I think that you would want to check the Hexham births for 1793-4 rather than 1791.
The 1841 census shows her 50 years old and married to James, a 48 year old shoemaker. The family includes Archibald, 18, Helen, 14, and three other young Edingtons, James, 11, John, 16 and Margaret, 20. The ages listed in the 1841 census are notoriously unreliable. The exact age was to be given for children but adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 or 10. The instructions about this obviously confused the enumerators and led to quite peculiar estimates and I think you are lucky if you can arrive at a birth date with a confidence interval no worse than +- 5 years.
You should note that Ancestry calculates the birth year as the census year minus the respondent's age but this is only accurate if the respondent's birthday falls between 1 Jan and the census date.
Good luck
Gobbo
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:)Thanks everyone who answered my query, your suggestions are much appreciated.
The Isabella mentioned in the 1841 and 1851 census is my ancestor and James mistranscribed as Agnes :o
The McGregor's in Berwickshire can be traced back to about 1700's and this branch includes a well known watchmaker Thomas McGregor born in Duns and died in Ayton in 1865. (I think somehow he is connected to my Isabella) as they were on the same census page and several other connections found.
Yes, Gobbo the census ages are notoriously wrong and can result in a wild goose chase in some instances . I have taken the date of Isabella's birth from her death certificate 10/10/55 which says she is 64 years =b. abt 1791 . It mentions her place of birth as Hexham, but no parents noted :'(
Many thanks Peter for the offer of a look up. Your theory sounds feasible considering that 25% of Hexham were members of the Presbyterian church. ;D
Sillgen, we do have a local LDS centre, but I was unaware that I could check all parish records, I thought just the ones on the IGI. If so, why are they not on the IGI ??? and thank you I will check out the NDFHS. :)
Cheers
Roby
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I am not an expert on the LDS but the IGI is actually an index of their temple sealings - not a list of parish records. It is just lucky for us that it is useful in that way. It does not profess to be an accurate record of all entries on the register. The films, on the other hand, are of the actual hand written register so you have to transcribe it yourself and can see exactly what was put originally. As far as I know they have covered most of the parishes in England. There is a small charge to order it and then you can keep it at the centre for several weeks. Do ask them if you are near one.
Andrea
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Hi
The age on the death certificate is the age reported by a relative or friend and can be inaccurate. The census ages (except for 1841) were probably as repported by the individual and in my opinion are slightly more reliable than age at death but this is not to deny that quite a few people did record wrong ages in the census - my ggrandmother represented herself as ten years younger than actuality on her wedding certificate and in the censuses close to her marriage. In her case it was possible to estimate her actual birth from the birth of her youngest child.
Good luck
Gobbo
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I am no expert on the LDS either but the IGI contains both user submitted records and extracted records.
There is an extraction project on going I think. In the LDS candidate has to give two years to service and one of the projects is being sent to a place and recording parish records. From what I understand 2 people copy a record and a third compares. If there is a descrepetancy the third person makes a decision on whcih record is correct.
An extracted record is just the parish record. This does not mean they are infallable though. I was down the wrong path with a family name from the extraction project but got on the correct one when I looked at the record--ah the difference of one letter.
Janis
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Just shows the importance of checking the original source doesn't it? I fear that rarely happens nowadays as people think if it is on the internet it must be right!!
Andrea
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The is a vast amount of Parish record information on microfilm available through the LDS Family History centres which is not on the IGI. The films do not cost much to hire, and my own centre usually keeps them for me for up to three months.
You can search for places you are interested in at this site http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp . A search for Hexham revealed an enormous amount of information available on microfilm click here is a sample for you Hexham Church Records at LDS (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&subject=368237&subject_disp=England%2C+Northumberland%2C+Hexham+%2D+Church+records&columns=*,0,0)
Jennifer
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions for my missing Isabella
I have checked LDS library but there does not seem to be records for presbyterians??? Would most of the scots be baptised is this church ?? or am I missing the obvious??
Yes, death certs can be very wrong, I think when I check the baptisms I need to check from 1790 to 1794. Just to be sure
Once again thank you all.
Cheers
Roby
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I found no baptism for Isabella in the printed transcript for the parish church of St Andrew [Hexham Abbey] and no marriage for McGregor around that time. The Presbyterians generally used the Anglian facilities in early years. There are funerary memorials to rhe pastors of the Scotch church on the walls of the abbey. The present Scotch church now United Reform was built about 1820.
The names in the Catholic registers are confined to the easily identifiable members of local gentry families with hardly any strangers.
Of course baptism doesn't really require a church, or Isabella may have been taken over the border on a family visit and baptised there.
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I am adding my tuppence worth to the topic of folk's ages.
After more than 15 years research on mainly Irish immigrants in Northumberland and Durham, I would award them all a medal for getting their ages correct so often.
How often did they need to trot out their age or birthday/year ?
Once every 10 years !. And maybe once when marrying, if they were young and might or might not need parental permission.
I agree that ages on death are less accurate, but it was not the deceased who was doing the informing.
Census 1841 enumerators were instructed for those aged over 15 years to round down to the nearest multiple of 5 years. For those up to 15 years, to record the specific age as reported.
Thank Goodness some enumerators ignored this or got it wrong and recorded a specific age as notified by the individual .
Michael Dixon
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Thank you one and all for the comments and suggestions for Isabella McGregor. Your help is very much appreciated.
Peter thank you for taking the time and effort to check the registers. Would you be able to tell me which years you looked at????
Once again thank you all.
Roby
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I looked at Baptisms 1788 to 1794 and Marriages 1788 to 1791 ar St Andrews [Hexham Abbey] and the two Roman Catholic registers covering about 10 years either side of 1791.
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Thanks Peter,
You certainly covered the time frame. Many thanks for your efforts.
Roby