RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: An65 on Wednesday 26 March 08 17:06 GMT (UK)
-
Well now Im looking for any info on William Tansey supposedly born cir 1806 Wales, but quite possibly anywhere ..........
He married Esther Gray bapt 1812 Outwell Cam d/o Thomas Gray & Susannah Faben. Esther was sister to John Budd (Jack) Gray and Piramus Gray.
Another reference to the Tansey family comes in the form of Joyce/Jessie Tansey who married George Boyling/Boylen/Boiling.
Im pretty sure she appears on the 1851 census at Spridlington as Mary Boylen, with her daughter by George, Ellen Gray (Really Salome Ellen bapt 1823 Scampton Lin)
For sure, George Boyling was buried at Nettleham Lincs, in 1873, and Joyce was buried the same place in 1885.
Looking at the IGI - a Charlotte Tansey was baptised in Burslem Stf in 1808, and I cant help but wonder if this is her under another alias. If so, she was daughter of William and Charlotte. Her brother would have been William Tansey baptised 17.02.1811 Frisby Leic. He would correspond with the William who married Esther Gray.
Does anyone know anything about the Boylings and Tanseys/Tanzys, and can shed any light on this one? Please?
-
Ann think Eric mentioned that :Some reports have Trinity Boswell as the mother of lumi she did later partner George) but from Winstedts notes and from the baptism ;Salome Ellen Boylin dau of George Boyling and Joyce,further info fro Eric who said that a Jane Tanzy who he suspects is a sister of Joyce Tanzy , married Tom Boswell.
-
Forgot to mention :-
Zachariah Boswell married Sarah Boiling/Boyling aka Boswell (according to the Geneology of the Boswells) however it also states that Sarah Boyling's father is George Boyling (read Boswell) and Trinity Boswell. I have found an IGI entry which says her parents are Caesar Boswell and Sarah ??
-
Thx Sue, was aware of the suposed parentage of Salome Ellen, (Lumi Ellen) - but seen the IGI and its a deffo that its Joyce Tansey.
Am really hoping to nail this one :)
Am aware of Zachariah Boswell and Sarah Boyling marriage, they are direct ancestors of one of my far-flung romany rellies!
-
Cesear Boyling married:
1) Mary Royston at Boston in 1768, by whom there was Samuel Thomas and Ambrose.
2) Sarah Smith at 1780 Wrawby by Brigg, by whom there was John and Sarah.
Sarah (b.cir 1784 Spalding) married Zachariah Boswell in 1809 in Kirton In Lindsey.
-
I have some old notes somewhere?? but where??LOL but i know i found one boyling and he was under the boswell name or vice versa? and i emailed Bob as he never had the record but for the life of me cant remember but will try and hook my old notes out.
-
Just found this note i made at time :=
n Robert Dawsons *Book of Boswell*he disputes the Jgls notes that"appys mother as Trinity Boswell
he says this is a confusion for his sister Trinity,there is no reason to disbelieve Phillis account as in a
removal order for 21 july 1821 she was charged for vagrancy and put into the house of correction and county gaol at Louth Lincs.On the same day Absalom and his wife Mary ,Elias his son and Trinity his daughter and then removed to his place of birth Drinkston Leicester.To confuse things more according to Oral tradition from the jgls it has Absalom as son of Anselo and this is confirmed by correspondence
between Henry Sherriff (aka Monty,SherriffBoswell,and Henry Boswell)who was Absaloms great grandson.This is recorded in the book edited by Robert Dawson and published as "Henry Drybread" The Richard Wade papers" published in 2001.Robert Dawson also says that if Absalom had Clara by Rebecca Clayton he would be 65?unless another Absalom ,I have found a Absalom Boyling age b 1816 lincs in the 1861 Census with wife Rebecca b 1818 and with them are 4 of his children and 3 Smith grandchildren
Is this the son of AbsalomBoswell i Now realise that Absalom is thought t be the son of Anselo Boswell and not Daniel Boswell .
-
George and Trenit or Joyce (no distinction made here simply issue of George) according to my notes include:
Sarah 1830 Glentham Lin
Absalom 1820 Swaby/Scrooby? Lin married Rebecca
Stephen 1815-18 Worksop Nott/Lin
Elizabeth 1818 Clarboro Nott
George 1826 Babworth Nott
Salome Ellen 1823 Scampton Lin
Of Which:
Absalom & Rebecca:
Henry 1850 Leic
Lemernaylor 1848 Ashby De La Zouch
Matthew 1854 Breedon LEI
Treanetter or Trinity Codnor or Basford
Maria b.cir 1841 Lemonton Rut married ? Smith
Salome Ellen had:
Elias or Eli b.1840-5 Nettleham Lin married Sarah A.
Drusilla b.cir 1845 Ingham Lin married Walter Smith (Ran off)
Lucy b.cir 1850 Sheffield
Joycey b.cir 1858 Bradford married Heenan Herring
Esther b.cir 1855 Barnsley Yks or Bardney Lin?
Mary A b.cir 1864 Wath Yk married Thomas Humberstone.
-
The Boylings seem elusive thats for sure its funny whilst looking at something else I came across the marriage for Angereena Boyling to Fred Wilsher Dec 1914 at Doncaster. Do you think it was aka Boswell Name the Boylings I mean?
-
Im not sure to be honest. I reserve judgement.
What I do think is that Wilsher and Wilshaw are the same - and there are several refs to Wilshaws. One of those is A Wilshaw marrying into Piramus Grays family, which has been proven otherwise. Another family I wouldnt mind knowing more about....
-
Well a chap i email is a Wilsher and I know they are wed into the Grays/Winters/Holmes and I think Boswells and also Smith as one of his line is with some Smiths in a census as down as cousins ,but the Wilshers;and all spellings !! seem to habe been in Yorkshire and then they seem to end up in Nottingham Newark area but before then some were from Scotland as his grt granny was Scottish which is where I imagine they wed into the Grays/
Winter and kennedys but they have been a nightmare finder as the surnames spelt so many different ways, as usual !!
-
While I was looking for a lady found this Census and these are my notes:-
Note all the Winters i saw seemed to be gorga unless it was because he wed Matilda Gray?and took to the life.
1861*Town: Huddersfield CountyYorkshire.
No Gypsies near by?
1861*Town: Huddersfield Yorkshire
Hanah Winter 33 hd widow b Huddersfield
James William Winter 10 school boy b Huddersfield
Louisa Gertrude Winter1 b Huddersfield
Tom Winter 5 school boy b Huddersfield
*
1901 CENSUS*Ince in Makerfield Lancashire.(several families all in caravans and hawkers etc)
Elias Winters 3 bInce, Lancashire
Matilda Winters 26 (Nee Heron)b Halifax, Yorkshire
Maud J Winters1 b Ince, Lancashire
Thomas Winters 43 b Huddersfield, Yorkshire Hawker of carpets.
*
Maria Dale 34 b Ireland b Leigh Lancashire.
William Dale 45 earthenware dealer
*
Edward Bentley 29 scissors cutler/grinder
Georgina Bentley 23 hawker lace and pegs b Wales Flintshire
Rhoda Bentley 5 b Ince, Lancashire
*
Ann J Johnson 60 widow hd b Manchester,
Leno Johnson 40 dau b Manchester,
Annie "" "" 23 dau b Manchester,
John H Sutton 30 son in law b Wigan, lab
*
Ann Frith 54 widow b Wigan, Lancashire
Richard Frith15 b Hindley, Lancashire coal worker underground
*
Angelina Boswell 19 wife b Newcastle, Staffordshire
Samson Boswell 22 hd b Angelina Boswell 19 Horse dealer
*
Cinderella Boswell10 dau b Hindley, Lancashire
Edicar Boswell14 son b Knutsford, Cheshire
Liar Boswell17 son b Manchester, Lancashire
Mernfield Boswell 21 son b Stockport, Cheshire
Lea Lovel 43 hd female b Bamfurlong, Lancashire
Roda Lovel 22 niece b Barnsley, Yorkshire
*
Clara Boswell 26 wife b Northzitch, Cheshire(found marriage 1895 Clara Bradburn)Blackburn Lancashire
Doria Boswell 5 b Salford, Lancashire
Noah R Boswell 26 hd b Wilmslow, Cheshire
Pheonix Boswell 2 son b Ince, Lancashire
*
William Cartwright 33 hd b Lowton, Lancashire
Susannah Cartwright wife23 b Winslow, Cheshire
Noah Cartwright 2 months b Ince, Lancashire
*
Kinsey Kelshaw 40 hd b Cheshire, England Horse dealer
Matilda Kelshaw wife 46 b Lincoln, Lincolnshire
Edna Kelshaw 5 dau b Stockport, Lancashire
Lena Kelshaw 17 dau b Stockport, Lancashire
*
John Rogerson 25 hd b Stockport, Lancashire Horse dealer
Andrew Rogerson 2 months b Stockport, Lancashire
Evelyne Rogerson 4 dau b Stockport, Lancashire
Fewshaw Rogerson 22 wife b Walsall, Staffordshire
James Rogerson 2 son b Stockport, Lancashire
-
You probably already know that Richard Winter wed Cinderella Heron dau of Fauk Gray and polly Elliot !your the expert on the Grays !! I just make notes if they cross into my lines etc.
I have donr the Herons as I was doing the Hearns and some are the same family abeit ,one Rais would record them as Heron and Others Hearn !drove me crazy when I first started doing the Hearns!
-
Gipsies Tent Tittesworth Staffordshire 1861
James Boswell Clothes Peg Mkr 1791 Nottinghamshire
Rhuderham Boswell Son c.p.m. 1821 Derbyshire
Happy Boswell Son c.p.m. 1838 Nottinghamshire
Isiah Boswell c.p.m. 1839 Staffs
Seliphean Boswell Son c.p.m. Staffs
Urda Boswell daughter in law c.p.m. 1838 Warwickshire
Bidda Boswell daughter in law c.p.m. 1842 Staffs
Dolor Boswell daughter in law c.p.m. 1811 Staffs
Jerusalem Boswell daughter c.p.m. 1848 Staffs
Anorah Boswell Gdtr c.p.m. 1855 Staffs
Sarah Boswell Gdtr c.p.m. 1853 Staffs
Matilda Boswell Gdtr 1858 Staffs
Sampson Boswell Gson 1859 Staffs
Rabia Boswell Gson 1856 Staffs
Jane Boswell Gdtr 1855 Staffs
Hoserygray Boswell Gson 1860 Staffs
Oh yes, I done the Grays to death.
Fowk Heron married Polly Elliot he was bapt 1794 s/o Richd Margt
and had Elijah, Master and Swallow, of which at least the last 2 were suposed to be transported.
He also had:
Miseretta/Miseta/Morette b.cir 1823 married Eldred Pierce aka Winter aka Smith (direct family ancestor)
Tienna/Trinity/Trenity married Stephen Pierce (bro) born cir 1820 Westboro Lin, she died 1853 Grainthorpe, Linc, supposedly as a result of a dog bite.
And Cinderella b.cir 1830 Billinghay Lin, married Richard Winter...
of which this much is known:
she died in 1888 at Caistor Dist Lin, and may also be known as Sophia - or maybe not! Maybe its a second wife, and perhaps not related at all:
Issue:
Emily 1866 Grasby
Harriet 1869 Manton
Esther married John Pierce
Alice 1872 Castor
Katie 1874 Wrawby.
This part the family reasonably well doc..... its further back I need. :S
-
Little London, Melton Mowbray Leic 1871
Appeli Smith 22 Brushmaker Skillington Leic
Hamardine Smith 20 wife Leicester Leic
\
Byrewenley Smith wid 51 Hawker Waltham Leic
Samuel Smith 16 son Labourer, Harston Leic
Elizabeth Smith 14 dtr Gerton Lin
Fanny Smith 12 dtr Eaton Leic
Eliza Smith 6 dtr Melton Leic
\
Synamenta Smith 42 wid Hawker Spilsby Lin
Sophia Smith 11 Willoughby Leic
Nathaniel Smith 4 Twyford leic
Nathaniel Smith 24 boarder, unmarried, deaf n dumb. Langham Rut
\
Thomas Smith 27 Labourer Haston Leic
Eliza Smith 26 Woolsthorpe Leic
Thomas Smith 6 Melton Leic
Cinimenta Smith 4 Derby Dbys
Sarah Smith 2 Melton Leic
Bertrice Smith 2months Melton Leic
Few doors away
Sarah Winters 48 Hawker Boston Lin
Ann Winters 11 Melton Leic
Ellen Winters 8 Notts
William Winters 2 Melton Leic
-
Encamped by the highway, in tents, Findern, Derbys RG11 2755 79 17
Kaphtali Boswell 39 Hawker Thringstone, Leic
Duana Boswell 37 Matlock Bank, Derby
Theophilus Boswell 15 Matlock, Derby
Israel Boswell 12 Matlock, Derby
Mary Ann Boswell 9 Chesterfield, Derby
Moses Holland 29 Scissor Grinder, etc Ravenstone, Leic
Eliza Holland 22 Matlock Derby
Mary Ann Holland 9mo Castle Donington, Leic
-
Brickyard Cottage, Melton Mowbray 1881
Napthali Smith 34 Brickmaker Skillington Lin
Amadine Smith 27 Hawker Gt Peatling Leic
Laura Smith 9 Melton Leic
John H Smith 8 Melton
Nathaniel Smith 6 Billesdon Leic
Amadine Smith 4 Melton
Rose A Smith 1 Melton
Wyramenta Smith 63 mother wid hawker Waltham Leic
Adeliza Smith sister 17 hawker Melton
-
5 Snow Hill
Napthali Smith 43 Brickmaker Skillington Lin
Ammadine Smith 40 Peatting Leic
John H Smith 18 Brickmaker Melton Leic
Nathaniel Smith 16 Brickmaker Billesdon Leic
Ammadine Smith 14 Bootmaker Melton Leic
Rose A Smith 8 Melton Leic
Sarah Smith 6 Melton Leic
Ann S Smith 3 Melton Leic
Ethel M Smith 8months Melton Leic
-
Its funny as when I was going through the old scribbled notes and to be honest probably havent gone through all of them as nightmare !!really small and terrible writing !!and from scholars?
anyway I never once saw any reference to Winters or Wilshers and yet they seem to have married into many families >yet seem elusive in records? the Witers have seen earlie dont seem to have been Gypsies>?
-
Another funy family well n ot funny but suddenly appear now and then are the Hicks family and HIbbs and Hazzards.
-
I saw on the R/R list still asking after kadillia Brown !!
-
cordelia Brown married a Cushion can b found on census hang on
-
Think its the one of Tom Brown and Lydia Cooper.
-
Thorpe Common, Gypsies In tents, Thorpe St Andrew, Norfolk, 1871
Orsera Gray 61 Travelling Musician Hornsey (Horningsea) (Oseri)
Eliza Gray 55 Lincoln Lin (nee Heron)
Soberona Gray 20 North Walsham "Leborina"
Sonny Gray 40 Kelby Lin
Keona Gray 28 Wisbeach "Kiomi"
Emma Gray 22 Norwich
Adolphus Gray 25 Long Sutton
Ethel Maud Gray 8 Scholar Grandaughter London
Frederick Gray 6 Grandson London
Madelina Gray 3 Grandaughter Scholar London
Henry Herbert Gray 1 Grandson Norwich
\\
Boyer Brown 65 Long Sutton Lin "Bui"
Lydia Brown 50 Bury St Edmunds Sfk "Liti" nee Smith
\\
Alice Rupert?? 44 Hawker Cambridge
Willimania Rupert?? 19 camp attendant Kent
\\
Thomas Brown 52 Dealer of Horses Lengton Cam
Lydia Cooper daughter 40 Fakenham "Lidi"
Sapariel Brown duaghter 23 Wisbeach
Edith Cooper 23 Gdtr Yarmouth
Noah Brown 13 Gson Edgefield
John Brown 17 Gson Houncett?
Cordelia Brown 11 Gdtr Reedham
Alfred Brown 4 Gson Thorpe
Laura Brown 1 Gdtr Norwich
\\
Arthur Smith 29 Cane Chair Mender Hornsey Sfk "Arkless"
Jenty Smith 30 Boston (Genti Gray)
Obadiah Gray 15 Stepson musician Hengham (Ingham)
Norah Gray 9 stepdaughter North Walsham
Oscar Gray 6 stepson Sprowston
There is a LOT of argument over whos TOM Brown wife really was.
Lydia Cooper appears to be a dughter in law b.cir 1820-30 Fakenham
Mary was his ACTUAL wife... but she died early.
In any event Lydia COOPER marrie Henry Cushion and had a family
Bells Marsh Road, Gorleston, Nfk RG11 1907 66 24
Lydia Brown 52 (1828) Widow Hawker Fakenham, Nfk
Noah Brown 19 (1861) Out of Work Norfolk
Albert Brown 16 (1864) Out of Work Thorpe, Nfk
Sarahann Brown 11 (1869) Scholar Norwich, Nfk
Martha Brown 50 (1830) Widow, Lodger, Hawker Norwich, Nfk
-
LYDIA WAS FROM THE WINDSOR COOPER LINE WASEN'T SHE I know quite alot of speculation as the very early ones and some went to the states also more than one partner im still working on them LOL but havent got much further have alot of ifs and maybes but need the proof to connect lines up. I never had Lydia wed to anyone else but then I haven't really looked ,but Tom Cooper was her father yes?and he wed Lani or caroline Smith,
dau of Ferdinand and marelli ? dont say iv got that wrong LOL !dont know why we do it you know we need a social life LOL>
-
1901 CENSUS*Ince in Makerfield Lancashire.(several families all in caravans and hawkers etc)
Elias Winters 3 bInce, Lancashire
Matilda Winters 26 (Nee Heron)b Halifax, Yorkshire
Maud J Winters1 b Ince, Lancashire
Thomas Winters 43 b Huddersfield, Yorkshire Hawker of carpets.
Matilda Winter b.cir 1878 Walsall Stf
and Tom Winter b.cir 1858 Huddersfield Yk she being dtr of Elias Gray and Amelia Heron/Hearn b. cir1845 Haddington NTHANTS.
Elias was reputedly bro OF Cornelus and Righteous Gray b.1827 NTH Elkesley NTH.
She (Matilda) later m. Rabbi Smith
-
Do you mean Elias Winters was brother of the gray so he was really a gray then?
-
I dnt know......:s
All I know is this:
That Elias Gray was supposedly BRO of Righteous and Cornelus
James Gray aka Mobbs was their father with Bethania Smith, d/o Wisdom sister to Tabitha married William Gray etc....
That Righteous and his wife Sage(y) or Elizabeth Sagey Heron settled in Nthants, and that bro OR twin COrnelius of no data is found.
Elias was supposedly a bro and he was supposedly b.1844 Abbots Rippon, and used accding to census alias William Gray and Walter Hearn, based on Wife Matilda and daughter Marys place/Date of birth.
Acc to JGLS Abigail Gray married Iza Hearn/Heron (s/o Isaac)
Mary b.Halesowen, m. Alfred Smith
Mizelli.Marcelli etc
Sunpoleon/Sapolins/George married Jane Smith
and Matilda, b.cir 1878 Walsall m.1) Tom Winter (1897) and 2) Rabbi Smith. (1928)
-
I know old Elias Boswell related to them as well and old Tom winters in the census have a pic of him.
-
Elias was a Gray, yes.
-
A pic of Tom Winter and family can be found here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,227279.0.html
-
Think i got mixed up??i have Matilda Gray dau of elias gray and Amelia Heron and then Matilda wed Tom Winters 1897? or are they a different pair?
-
same. She later m. Rabbi Gray 1928l
-
Yes I have seen that think I spoke to the lady on another forum about them ,
-
:)
-
FUNNY IN BETWEEN THE FORUM JUST HAD EMAIL ABOUT GRAYS IN usa FROM MY MATE !! are we all bored after Easter LOL.
-
Sorry no not in USA but the article appeared in a American newspaper Sandy Buckland just sent me it so il post it but its from Sandy **
THE NEW YORK TIMES FEBRUARY 23 1896
English Gypsies
From good words
There are 3 brothers Joshua Esau & Gus Gray.
Joshua is tallest of the three men like his brothers he is of thin build but there is something in his movements that seems to tell of a vast reserve of strength in his slim wiry frame when on his feet he stands as erect as a guardsman and there is a natural diginity in his carriage that is rare among the sons of men.
His mouth is hiden by a heavy dark drooping mustache which gives him something of the appearence of a spanish don. but though his demoeanor is grave and self possessed there is a mark alertness in the reastless glances of his clear gray eyes. His dress consists of a long dark coat and vest tight fitting cordurory breeches and light box cloth leggings he wears a small peaked cap tied up over the crown of the head and a colored silk hankerchief fastened loosely round his neck.
Esau & Gus are not quite so tall as their elder brother but their clothes are smarter and of a more pronounced pattern The ends of Esau mustache are waxed to a point and he grows a carefully trained imperial.
While Joshua is content with the humble cherry wood pipe Esau smokes his insubstantial cigarette, but withstanding these signs of the times there is little to indicate degeneration in this swarthy rover.
His reputation as a Boxer is widespread among the sporting fraternity of Norfolk and Suffolk and more than one drowsy yokel of the marshland has had cause to regret the taunt that stirred the quick pulsing gypsy blood as a clog dancer too he has not many equals and not a few prizes have been awarded him for his agility in this direction
-
Josh Gr AKA Tom and Caroline
Caroline Gray d/o Jn Budd gRAY AND Uri Heron
Thoms b cir 183o,,,,,,,,,
see IN RR listing John Budd Gray ad his marny wives:
Bn 1798 MARCH cam, s./o Thomas Gray& Susannah Faben:
John Budd Goes on:
ti have Caroline aka Emma god knows what else : to ave
Elvira m. Esaw Young
ESAu
Hary
Ada
Eve Amelia
Mary
John
Lalble/ Loli Lali/ Alice
Josh M.Lenda Wms
Pheobe
Esau m. Mabel Gray
Reuben M. Athatliah wHATNELL.
Gus married Polly Hope
-
Ah the Hopes!!!another of my dead ends LOL my friend descends from Golden HOpe so have done the line but still stuck on Goldens origins further back ,I know they say that Hopes were formerly Bakers but i always wondered if Smith?
-
Forgot to say Ann I have a picture somewhere of The Nelli Bonnet wedding quite a few on there and Kiomi is on there as well have you seen it?
-
Yes I also have Naomi Grays/Tanns (same Fam) however, I have lost the former image in the great puter crash. Still have the latter, so if you have the image of that wedding to hand pls send me it!!
-
have had an interesting read thanks to the both of you... 8)
could i ask, what is the surname of the kiomi, you are talking about please
thanks
-
Kiomi (or Keomi) Gray
-
(chortle) we did go off on a bit of a tangent didnt we!!
I replied on your page Sue, about Kadelia Brown :)
-
Yes Thanks Ann saw that , yes of on a tagent is a permanent state when you do Romany research !!!LOL
-
hello again just read this and as well as being related to the swales. my husband is a gray direct descendant to george and joyce boiling have info that may help you. there daughter salome ellen married william gray they are his gt gt grandparents we have their marrage certificate. can you help with william gray as we have had difficulty tracing him he was 21 years in 1841 when they maried at normanby near linclon we know his father is william gray, salome ellen real name is loangellin.please get in touch
-
George Boiling b.cir 1794 married Joyce Tansy b.cir 1804.
They are both buried at Nettleham, Lincs he, 13.04.1873, and she 04.01.1885.
He is presumed to be a son of Caesar Boiling. He married 1) Mary Royston in 1768 at Boston Lin, and 2)Sarah Smith in 1780 at Wrawby By Brigg. He was born cir 1743 at Kegworth Leic.
George Boiling also married Trenit/Trinity Boswell although Salome Ellen was definatly the daughter of Joyce Tansy, being bapt 1823 at Scampton, Lincs. She was often known as Lumi or Laommi Ellen, and sometimes as just plain Ellen.
William Gray is presumed to be the William Gray bapt 1791 at Ashwell Hrts, the son of Charles Gray and Aquila Smith.
Charles was bapt in 1763 at Ashwell, son of Codilla Gray.
Laommi/Lumi/Ellen always appears alone on the census, because William is travelling with his other wife, Tabitha Smith, a daughter of Wisdom and Hannah, c.1803 Cropwell Bishop, Nthants.
Salome Ellen had several children by William Gray of which:
Elias aka Eli b.cir 1840-5 Nettleham Lincs, married Sarah A. b.cir 1845 Doncaster.
Drusilla b.cir 1845 Ingham Lin married Walter Smith s/o William and Mausolina (nee Heron).
Lucy b.cir 1850 Sheffield
Esther b.cir 1855 Barnsley
Joycey b.cir 1858 Bradford married Heenan Herring (Heron) 1874 Barnsley Dist Yorks.
Mary A b.cir 1864 Wath, Yks, married Thomas Humberstone.
This is the info I have. Any relationship you know of to this family, the Grays, and the Swales, please please private message me and I will give you my email addy.
-
hello ann joyce also married william king and had 8 children one of which is my gt granmother she was sarah and m. walter gray
-
Hahahaha I LOVE these multiple marriages! Thank you for that bit of info, I had no idea...
:)
-
sorry ann wrote gt grandmother ment grand mother and elias gray joyces brother was my great grandfather
-
hang on, Joyce Tansey married George Boiling..... their daughter Salome Ellen married Wiliam Gray
how could Joyces brother have been Elias Gray? Im a bit lost here, sorry.
-
joyce gray married heern hering then william king whose daughter sarah king m walter gray son of elias gray joyce grays brother , son and daughter of ellen and william gray( elias gray m.sarah smith.) so my granmother and grandad were first cousins,
-
hope you understand that better sorry about the way i put things
-
Gotcha now, and thanks for the phone call it was great to talk :)
Ann
-
Please can anyone help me out with the Gray Family of Norfolk/Suffolk.
Obadiah Gray married Ada Gray (his cousin) in 1894 in Mitford. He appears to have already had two other children by Mary named Olby and Jane.
I have his mother named as Mary (a widow in 1881 census)
Children of Obadiah Gray and Ada Gray (who was 19 year's his junior) are:
Lapolius Samuel born 1895
Verdi Archer born 1896
Pansey Leonora born 1898
Ivy Ellen born 1900
Mareillie born 1904
Leonard Ozery born 1908
Stanley Joseph born 1909
Begonia born 1909
and perhapse Maurice Edward born 1918.
Any help appreciated.
Gillian Allison
-
Obadiah Grays mother was Gentee/Genty Gray aka Jenty Smith. bapt 1835 at Butterwick Lincs, she was a d/o Edward "No Name" Heron by his permanent wife, Rosa Lovell.
-
Hi Thanks for last reply to my query. I had made a mistake as to Obadiah's mother's name on the 1881 census. Her name on this census is Jane, but I find her named Jenty on the 1871 census.
Re the baptism of Genty/Jenty Gray in 1835. I have accessed this through Family search. This states her baptismal date as
29 Nov 1835
BUTTERWICK HOLLAND,LINCOLN,ENGLAND. Parents named here are Father: Dezrey Gray and Eliza Herring. I found the family on the 1851 Cenus as Orsary Gray and Eliza. Jane (Jenty) and her brother Samuel are also on this census. Samuel is the one who apparently married Ellen Dianna Gray and their child Ada (h) married her cousin Obadiah, Jenty's son. All very confusing. Where do Edward and Rosa Lovell fit in?
-
Hi Thanks for last reply to my query. I had made a mistake as to Obadiah's mother's name on the 1881 census. Her name on this census is Jane, but I find her named Jenty on the 1871 census.
Re the baptism of Genty/Jenty Gray in 1835. I have accessed this through Family search. This states her baptismal date as
29 Nov 1835
BUTTERWICK HOLLAND,LINCOLN,ENGLAND. Parents named here are Father: Dezrey Gray and Eliza Herring. I found the family on the 1851 Cenus as Orsary Gray and Eliza. Jane (Jenty) and her brother Samuel are also on this census. Samuel is the one who apparently married Ellen Dianna Brown** and their child Ada (h) married her cousin Obadiah, Jenty's son. All very confusing. Where do Edward and Rosa Lovell fit in?
**Sorry the surname was Brown not Gray
-
Edward Heron (Herring Hearon etc) died at Tetford Lincs in 1831 with his supposed Cousin, Tyso Boswell, they are buried together at Tetford with a gravestone to this day. Story went that they stopped at Tetford on way to Horncastle fair (which would be accurate since their death date was 05.08.1831 and Horncastle fair was on late August every year) and that both men were killed when they entered a barn late at night in search of dry straw with which to keep their tents dry but were struck by lightening. In these days for sure gypsies lived in bender tents rather than the later gypsy vardos (caravans).
Tyso Boswell and Edward Herons (and alternative spellings) grave still stands at Tetford, I have seen it. They were struck by lightening as gravestone and local newspaper reports of the time can testify.
Both of these men are very important to gypsy lineage when it comes to the Midlands of England.
-
Gentee Gray was bapt at Butterwick Lin in 1835 and she died 1918 as Jenty Smith and buried at Gorleston Cem Yarmouth under that name.
Obadiah Gray was the supposed son of Jenty/Gentee/Genti Gray by Charles Smith (no ofher info) but he was bapt as Obadiah Smith in 1856 At Ingham. Obadiah (Obi) Gray married Lavaina Smith d/o Nelus and Clara, and later he maried Ada Mabel Gray
-
I wondered if someone could help in giving some information re Caesar Boylin (if that is indeed his correct name).
I have been searching for him for a long tim ebut his name spellings often change and he never stays in one area for long. I am decended through his son John so any info about him would be appreciated.
I found this thread and noticed he had been mentioned and I hoped someone could assist????
-
Yes eliace was brother to cornelious and righteous twins and there was mosses eliace was my 2 x great grandad I've only just found out about the name mobbs ! Eliace married Amelia hurn /heron her and sage were sisters daughters of Edmund (Naibai) hurn /and serbarinsi buckland now I want to find out more about the name mobbs ? :)
-
I think eliace Gray was the son of Salome boiling and William Gray I'm very confused as it seems everybody was married 2 or 3 times ! I can't keep up to them xx
-
Please can anyone help me out with the Gray Family of Norfolk/Suffolk.
Obadiah Gray married Ada Gray (his cousin) in 1894 in Mitford. He appears to have already had two other children by Mary named Olby and Jane.
I have his mother named as Mary (a widow in 1881 census)
Children of Obadiah Gray and Ada Gray (who was 19 year's his junior) are:
Lapolius Samuel born 1895
Verdi Archer born 1896
Pansey Leonora born 1898
Ivy Ellen born 1900
Mareillie born 1904
Leonard Ozery born 1908
Stanley Joseph born 1909
Begonia born 1909
and perhapse Maurice Edward born 1918.
Any help appreciated.
Gillian Allison
Hi - I am a descendant of Obadiah Gray through his daughter Ivy. The information you provided is so great!
I found a website that listed the following:
GRAY and GRAY
East Dereham, Norfolk, 5 November 1894
Obadiah Gray/aged 38/Bachelor/Traveller/Shipdham/son of Santanoah Gray/Horse Dealer
Ada Mabel Gray/aged 21/Spinster/Dereham/daughter of Samuel Gray/Musician
Obadiah Gray signs X
Ada Mabel Gray signs
Witnesses: N. Tann, W. Ashby [both sign]
I also found this on another page:
Obadiah Gray your Grt Grandfather married
Lavina Smith daughter of Cornelius Smith
He used both surnames Gray & Smith & Gray is also Grey
I think his father was a Charles Smith
With lavina
Genty Gray 29th August 1880 Hunstanton Norfolk
Laborous Gray 1st June 1882 Saxthorpe Norfolk
Clara gray 23rd Feb 1890 Barford Norfolk
I cannot be certain if 2nd marriage
Obadiah Gray married Ada Mabel Gray 1894 Nitford Norfolk
christenings of children
Lapolius Samuel Gray 3rd Sept 1895 Yarmouth Norfolk
Pansey Leonora Gray 20th feb 1898 Norfolk
Ivy Ellen Gray 25th Nov 1900 Loddon Norfolk
Rosemary Constance Gray 24th Nov 1901 Loddon Norfolk
Can you tell me where you found the information on Verdi, Mareillie and Begonia? I don't have any knowledge of these children.
-
Hi
Was researching on behalf of an elderly gentleman, so haven't looked at the family in a long time. However. I think now that Begonia might not belong to Obadiah and Ada. I have the christening records for: Lapolius Samuel Gray; Ivy Ellen Gray; Rosemary Constance Gray; Pansy Leonora Gray; Verdi Archer Gray (often known as Archie) Mareillie (Morelli) born circa 1904 is on the 1911 Census as 7 year old daughter of Obadiah and Ada. Also on the 1911 Census there is a daughter Joy aged 11 whom I can only think is Ivy Ellen.
Cheers
Gillian Allison
-
For Obadiah I have (by Lavinia Smith)
Genty 1880 Hunstanton, Laborus 1882 Saxthorpe Alby 1882 Saxthorpe Clara 1890 Barford,
(by Ada Mabel Gray d/o Samuel)
Lapolius Samuel 1895 Yarmouth, Verdi Archer 1898 Acle, Pansy Leonora 1898 Acle, Ivy Ellen 1900 Loddon, Rosemary Constance 1901 Loddon, Morelli b.1904, Stanley1905 Leonard Oseri b.1908 also reputedly Walter and Maurice.
There were a couple of Begonias in this family.
Begonia C Gray 1910-1910 d/o Lewis Andrew Gray & Agnes Pope
They also appear to have had Begonia Rose Victoria May who married Henry James s/o Barron Gray (he in turn being s/o Adolphus Gray and Harriet, the brother of Genty Gray)
The other Begonia is Ellen Begonia (Nellie) b.1895 Geldeston d/o Frederick Cyril Gray and Laura Smith, he being s/o Genty Gray.
-
Hi all - long time no post!
Can I correct bookwormtilley's case of mistaken identity that Cornelius Smith (father of famous evangelist Gipsy Rodney Smith) had a daughter, Lavina, who married Obadiah Gray?
In his memoirs, written in 1901, Rodney says ""My second sister, Lovinia, is Mrs. Oakley, and lives at Luton, a widow."
In my tree notes I have Lovinia, aged 19 marrying Edward Oakley, a Horse Dealer (b 21 Mar 1857, Fenny Stratford, Buckinghamshire, son of William Oakley & Sarah Nash), on 26 Dec 1876 in Luton, Beds. I've got a copy of their marriage cert. showing Lovinia was the daughter of Cornelius Smith, Hawker. Lovinia & Edward had 7 children, all born in Luton:
Sarah Oakley b. 17 Feb 1877
Matilda Oakley b. abt. 1879
Edward Oakley b. abt. 1882
Beatrice Oakley b. abt. 1885
Emily Oakley b. abt. 1887
Minnie Oakley b. abt. 1890
May Oakley b. abt. 1874
... and she remained in Luton until her death on 30 Oct 1908. I was in touch for a while with Lovinia and Edward's great granddaughter Jackie (via their daughter Emily) over in New Zealand, and she knew all about the connection with Gipsy Smith.
This is just to scotch that particular rumour (which bookwormtilley states they found somewhere online) and would suggest that An65's 13 Oct 2010 23:41 post containing the info re the Lavaina who married Obadiah Gray is much more likely to have hit the nail on the head.
Anyway, I've really enjoyed reading the threads on here with the info on the Grays ... I have a slender link to them in that my ggg grandmother Naomi Buckley (b. abt. 1841, d. of Joiner Buckley and Seni Smith) had a brother, Hercules Buckley (aka Dud / Arkless / Arthur who often used the Smith surname), who was briefly married to Genty Gray (b. 1835, d. of Osiri Gray and Eliza Heron). Genty's younger sister Keomi (the Pre-Raphaelite model) seems to have had a really interesting life (does anyone have a clear photo of her, by any chance?) and the more I read about the Grays / Herons (Hearns) the more I feel they're bound to be further connected to my Smiths (and Buckleys and Taylors) by more than marriage. I should add Naomi and Hercules' big sis Justinia Buckley was married to the aforementioned Cornelius Smith's brother Woodlock ... and Cornelius & Woodlock's brother Bartholomew is my ggg-grandfather ... whose daughter Naomi Smith married the aforementioned Naomi Buckley's - and James Taylor's - son Algar ... phew :D ;D - so interwoven, these Romanies!
-
I am interested in the Edward Oakley mentioned, who married Lavinia Smith as I think he MAY be my gg grandfather. I say "may", because my great grandfather was named Edward Oakley Cannon by his mother Emily Cannon. Edward's father was not named on the birth certificate. I have read that at the time, illegitimate children were often named after the father, so as a bit of a leap of faith, I looked for an Edward Oakley in Luton around the same time and came across the Oakley family living at the Welcome Stranger Beer House on Duke Street, Luton.
As I expanded the Oakley family tree, I found that Edward Oakley's mother was called Sarah Nash (1837-1906); Sarah Nash had a sister called Ursula Nash (1831-1868); Ursula was married to Henry Cannon (1827-1895) - my great great great grandfather; Henry and Ursula were (wait for it) the parents of our great great grandmother Emily Cannon!
So, if Emily did have a child by Edward Oakley, Emily and Edward were cousins.
Is there any knowledge in the Oakley family of a relationship with his cousin before he married Lavinia?
I have attached a subset of the tree to illustrate.
-
I noticed the Boilings and varients being discussed on this post;i have a marriage in my tree that might be of intrest to anyone researching them.
Thomas Penfold to Lavinia Tholling on 3rd September 1849 Iden,Sussex,his father John,her father Thomas.
Also on Ancestry same people but the marriage is given as J/A/S 1849 Rye,Sussex where the surname is Bolling.
They are on the 1871 living in a caravan in Northfleet,her birth shown as 1832 in Horsmonden piece895 folio105 p31.
I think her death is in Woolwich in 1905 aged 80,so 1825 would be her birth.
I cant see her on the 1841,nor a Thomas Bolling who might fit.I see you suggest it might be a variant of Boswell,quite possible as Thomas is a name they used quite a bit.My cousins father in law was Tommy Boswell from Kent.
Might be of no intrest,but I thought I would just throw it in as a possible Penfold link to your family.
Nel.
-
Laommi/Lumi/Ellen always appears alone on the census, because William is travelling with his other wife, Tabitha Smith, a daughter of Wisdom and Hannah, c.1803 Cropwell Bishop, Nthants.
May I ask what proof you have of this statement please?