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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: CU on Friday 04 April 08 14:33 BST (UK)
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Please can anyone help?
On the 1881 census ref RG11/3454 folio 74 page 32
William Potts born 1826 Derbyshire, Pensioner 25th Reg
Who was the 25th Reg and how do I find out about them. Thank you
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The 25th Regiment of Foot (King's Own Borderers) became The York Regiment (King's Own Borderers) in the Cardwell Reforms of 1st May 1881. In the July of the same year they were retitled as The King's Own Borderers. In 1887 they were retitled yet again and became The King's Own Scottish Borderers.
old rowley
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Thanks for the information Old Rowley ;D
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no worries CU always happy to help, I have found the following which gives a brief history of the regiment
http://www.kosb.co.uk/history.htm
old rowley
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Hi CU
My GGF served in the 25th Regiment in the 1870s. They officially became a Scottish regiment in 1881, when one Scottish regiment became Irish and the 25th was given to Scotland, even then the headquarters was in Carlisle .
In my GGF’s day most of the men were English or Irish, as they spent a lot of time in Ireland. My GGF enlisted in Gosport and married in Ireland. I will be checking the Muster and Pay Lists for the 25th in a few weeks and will look up William Potts for you.
Ken
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Many Thanks Ken for that kind offer. I will keep my fingers crossed that you come
across William. ;D
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If you know roughly when he left the army, you can obtain his soldiers papers.
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Thank you Pharmakon, but I only have him on the 1881 census, when he put down he was
a Pensioner.
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Thank you Pharmakon, but I only have him on the 1881 census, when he put down he was
a Pensioner.
BMD certificates?
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I have only just find him a week ago.
He was born in 1826 and have just found his marriage in 1877. He would be 51, so he may of
already left the 25th. I am waiting for the certificate.
He died in 1902 but I do not have this yet.
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I was in Kew yesterday, and found this in WO12 – Muster and Pay Lists - for the 25th Foot. In the 1840s there was only one battalion and a Depot. There was nine companies in the battalion, with a tenth in the Depot.
William Potts arrived at the Depot in Chatham on 25th of April 1843. At the time they had sergeants recruiting in Manchester, Glasgow and Chichester. So I would guess he was recruited either in Manchester or as the Sergeant was travelling through Derbyshire. You will have to research what means of travel existed to guess at when he left Derbyshire. He was only paid from the day he arrived. He was in hospital from the 26th to 30th of April, with no reason given.
His regimental number was 2022. There was a John Potts (887) also in the regiment. Both were Privates, so he was over 17/18 otherwise he would have been a Boy.
He left Chatham on 18th July 1844 in a party of four officers and 87 ORs (two sergeants, four Corporals, 79 Privates and two Boys), bound for the battalion in Cannanore, Madras (India), where they arrived on 15th November 1844 – four months at sea, nice.
From April 1845 he received 1d a day good conduct pay. From July 1846 he received 2d a day GC pay.
If I get a chance I will try and find when he was discharged. When a man left the lists records where he was born, his intended residence and sometimes his occupation before enlisting.
Ken
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Thank you so much for the Wonderful information on William. ;D
It was so kind of you to find this for me, I would of never been able to. In fact I wouldn't know where
to start. Thank you for all your time and trouble.
You're a Star.
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Hi CU
2022 Private William Potts was discharged from the 25th Regiment at Preston on 4th April 1865 having served* 21 years and 19 days. He attended a Discharge Board on 23rd of March, at which it was stated that his character was Good, but that he had been entered in the Defaulter’s Book 42 times, and had attended seven courts martial!
Of his service he had served abroad 17 years: 10 yrs 8 mths in the East Indies (this included India itself); Gibraltar 4 yrs 4 mths; Malta 2 years and Canada 4 months.
He enlisted in Manchester on 17 April 1843, aged 19. He was a Cotton Twister, born in Buxton. On discharge his intended place of residence was Buxton. He was aged 40 years 11 months, 5ft 8ins; fresh complexion; grey eyes; dark brown hair, with no scars/tattoos. If my maths is correct, this is closer to 22 years service, so the difference will be what he lost in punishments.
If he had been 19 years and 1 month when he enlisted it would have said so, so my guess is that he was born between 18th of March and 5th of April 1824.
Kew have microfilmed the surviving papers for men discharged 1855 to 1883 including his. The bad news is that they seem to have culled it down to just his Discharge Papers. His Enlistment/Attestment papers would give the dates of his promotions, plus when he left one station for another, and details of any medals. I do not believe they were involved in any campaigns, but it would be nice to know if they awarded him a Long Service Good Conduct Medal – maybe not! Although he was earning 3d a day good conduct pay at times.
You can get the same information by searching the Muster and Pay Lists, but for 21-22 years you are talking about 80 registers – some were for six months, but most are for a quarter. I have looked at a few and will post this information later, plus details of the microfilm so you can order copies from the NA.
FH information such as wives and children was just not recorded in the 1860s.
* this is service towards a pension so he lost about 10-11 months worth of pension. For a lot of the time they were based in Manchester or Stockport, so he probably nipped home to see his mum.
Ken
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Thank you so much for all the Brilliant information. I can't get over it. He is a real person who has
come to life again, and its all thanks to your kindness.
Thank you for all your time and trouble and I hope you were able to do your own research on your
GGF. You're a Star :-*
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Hi Cath
The last Muster and Pay List I looked at was July 1846, when they were in Madras. If we fast forward to 1855, they were at sea from April to August 1855. From then until the middle of 1857 the battalion was in Manchester, with a detachment at Stockport. He was on furlough (leave) from 15 September to 6 October 1855. He was earning 2d good conduct pay.
In January and February 1856 he was in Stockport. For the muster in March 1856 he was in prison; April and May in Manchester; June in Stockport. Sometime during the quarter he was confined 7 days. From then until the March 1857 he was in Manchester. April: Stockport. He went missing from the 10th to 17th of June 1857, for which he was confined for 14 days. He also was confined for 3 days in the same quarter. Three days CB (confined to barracks) was the usual punishment for missing a morning parade. The 8 days when he went missing would have be absence without leave. I don’t know when AWOL became desertion. My GGF went absent for 9 days in the 1870s. He was demoted from Sergeant to Private and was sentenced to 49 days confinement. But even after that he managed to have one of his 1d a day GC badges returned after about 18 months.
From July to December 1857 they were in Dover, and the next month they sailed to Gibraltar.
Pte Pott’s record is on microfilm WO97/1479, frames 00027 to 00030 (inclusive). As I mentioned in my PM I would order A3 sheets. The page with his punishments on is quite detailed. In the Discharge Board they mention that he was in possession of three Good Conduct badges, so they wore a badge on their arm as well as getting 1d a day extra.
BTW... in one of the Muster and Pay Lists there is a note from the Paymaster to the War Office, and he signs it “25th Reg KOB”. So that would be the official shorthand for the regiment. In speech I think they would talk about the “25th” or “25th Foot”.
Ken
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Thank you so much Ken :-* You are Wonderful
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Just to let you know Ken, I have ordered Williams discharge papers. ;D
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This is just to let you know Ken, that the copies of information you found for me
at Kew has arrived this morning. I would of never of found it with out your help.
It is Wonderful, he really comes to life.Thank you so much for all your help with William.
You're a Star ;D
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Hi CU
My GGF served in the 25th Regiment in the 1870s. They officially became a Scottish regiment in 1881, when one Scottish regiment became Irish and the 25th was given to Scotland, even then the headquarters was in Carlisle .
In my GGF’s day most of the men were English or Irish, as they spent a lot of time in Ireland. My GGF enlisted in Gosport and married in Ireland. I will be checking the Muster and Pay Lists for the 25th in a few weeks and will look up William Potts for you.
Ken
Hi Ken,
My GGGrandmother Esther McLean married a Timothy Hoolahan in 1863 - he was listed as living at Edinburgh Castle and a Private in 25th Regiment.
I dont think he would have been there for much longer after the marriage as I found a newspaper article for a few months after the marriage.
SHERIFF CRIMINAL COURT - Friday (Before Sheriff Arkley.) Timothy Hoolihan, a private in the 25th Re- giment pleaded guilty to using indecent liberties with a young girl on the public road near Milton Cottages on the 11th ultimo; and was sentenced to 6 months inprisonment.