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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: liverpool annie on Saturday 05 April 08 17:11 BST (UK)
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Thought this was interesting ...... I'd never heard of this before !! :)
Visitors to Salford, home of Coronation Street, might muse over street names such as Buffalo Court and Dakota Avenue. They derive from the winter of 1887-88, when the city's back-to-back terraces were augmented by 97 native Americans in teepees, plus 10 elks, 18 buffalo and assorted other livestock. The native Americans had arrived in November 1887 as part of 'Buffalo Bill's Wild West and Congress of Rough Riders of the World Show'. This spectacle was led by the army scout William Frederick 'Buffalo Bill' Cody and included bucking-bronco riding and other acts of derring-do from a 200-strong troupe. They set up tents beside the River Irwell, and in the evenings performed at a nearby venue. Such was the demand that they stayed for five months, becoming part of local life. One native American couple had a baby girl baptised at St Clement's Church. Several of the Salford Sioux had been in the Battle of Little Big Horn, including Nicholas Black Elk, who would later be immortalised in the 1932 bestseller Black Elk Speaks. Black Elk was one of a party left behind in Salford who had to make their own way back to the US.
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Hi Annie,
For a little more info. see
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=475572&in_page.id=1770
Dave
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Isn't it funny how things come around Dave ?? .... two or three years ago I went to the theater to see the production of Black Elk Speaks !! came out of there on a "high" ... it was so insightful !!
Thank you so much for that site .... wonder if they ever found the Sioux warrior ? though the article was only written last year .... I would be interested in hearing about him .... if there is any other information around !! :)
I found the original post when I was trying to find The Charge of the Light Brigade survivors with Buffalo Bill !! ( I'm about 10 mins away from his museum !! ) :)
Annie :)
PS Note to Wendi .... look at that beautiful face !!
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?word=Red%20Shirt%2C%20Sioux%20chief&s=3¬word=&f=2
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And on BBC north west news archives: there were a few features about it last year :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/features/salford_sioux/
The interview with Charging Thunder's grand daughter (of Gorton :D) is great
:) Barbara
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Oh Annie what have you started ::) you have your NYPL chap, I bags the one Dave found ;)
Anyone read anything by Lucia St. Clair Robson ?
Barbara nice post Gorton & all !!! I'm off to read .........
Wendi :)
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How very very cool Barbara !! :) .... I LOVE serendipity don't you ?? :D :D :D
Wendi .... it's the SAME guy !! :D :D :D
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Yer but I oh so prefer the more mature one ;D
Wendi :)
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Annie, Barbara & Wendi,
It is getting like Blind Date ;) ;)
Here are some more details.
http://www.salford.gov.uk/living/yourcom/salfordlife/aboutsalford/salfordlocalhistory/salfordsioux/knowyoursalfordsioux.htm
Dave
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As long as we don't give you a headache my Friend .... I think you could handle the three of us !! :D :D :D
Thank you for the link !! :D
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Annie!! Behave - Its not past the nine o'clock watershed yet!
Oh wait - it is :D :D :D :D :D
;) Barbara
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My friend just called so we're going to go to the museum and see what we can find !! :D
Barbara ... you know what Dave is like .... he's worse than a woman for headaches when he can't handle the pressure !! ::) ::)
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Great stuff Gal some time out in the mountains ;)
Wendi
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;D
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I love this photo, Wild Bill, and Sioux leaders, shame on you Annie, i sent you this weeks ago cos I though you would love it xxx Anybody who would like an original please PM.
Tony
x
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Now THAT'S what you call cool .... Indians on the tram !! :D :D :D :D
Where did you find that Mr H ??
PS ........... NO YOU DIDN'T !!!!!!!!!!!!! :P
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I mentioned, your ancestral neighbours, in USA or did I?
Still a wonderful photo, and more serendipity!
T
xxx
;D
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I know that site. Its the manchester.gov.uk site, but I cant find where I stored its proper site reference.
Maybe if you googled it you'd find it? Ill have a look and get back to you!
Unbelieveable that US native peoples would go to Manchester. Doesnt it rain a lot there?
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I got it!
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk and run down the page and put in Sioux Indians in the search box.
This is a real good site for anyone with Manchester oldies. Fascinating pictures of old row houses.
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Rain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Today we have had unbelieavable sunshine, snow, hail and rain, And a gorgeous light
Lots of love from Manchester
Tony
x
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It's a wonderful photo Tony .... thank you !! :D :D :D
Well .... I had to run to the Buffalo Bill Museum as they close at 4 ..... got up there .. I forgot it was Saturday ... so the Historian wasn't there !! ::) ::) ::)
So trailed around the museum .... it's still interesting ........ even if it is a tourist trap !! but I learned something today .... Bill was born in 1846 ....... but his Great Great Great Grandfather Philip Cody ...... moved to America from Jersey in the Channel Islands .... maybe I'm related .... you never know !! :D :D :D
So I'll try and get up there again next week !!
Annie :)
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Moderator comment: Image removed - personal messages are meant for the recipient only.
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Black Heart of Whalley Range - isn't that brilliant!
Here's another interesting snippet .. George Williams aka Charging Thunder found work at Belle Vue Zoo as an animal keeper.
So I went looking through my book on the history of Belle Vue to see if George Williams/Charging Thunder was in it - he wasn't. But this was:
"In 1947 ... an attraction named 'Frogman Divers' ....operated by 3 demobilised midget submarine divers, one of whom possessed a Victoria Cross, who put on a display in which the public saw the divers getting through a replica of a midget sub's airlock with equipment, to make their way through mock obstruction nets" [from Looking Back at Belle Vue by Robert Nicholls]
It took me a long time to work out that it was the submarines that were midgets, not the divers ::) Anyway, the VC holder was Ian Edward Fraser, who was a colleague of James Magennis the Irish VC holder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Edward_Fraser
Is serendipity a posh word for 'wandering off topic'? ;) :D ;)
Barbara
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"In 1947 ... an attraction named 'Frogman Divers' ....operated by 3 demobilised midget submarine divers, one of whom possessed a Victoria Cross, who put on a display in which the public saw the divers getting through a replica of a midget sub's airlock with equipment, to make their way through mock obstruction nets" [from Looking Back at Belle Vue by Robert Nicholls]
It took me a long time to work out that it was the submarines that were midgets, not the divers ::) Anyway, the VC holder was Ian Edward Fraser, who was a colleague of James Magennis the Irish VC holder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Edward_Fraser
Is serendipity a posh word for 'wandering off topic'? ;) :D ;)
Barbara
Anyone fancy his book http://www.rootschat.com/links/0359/
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I don't understand what you guys are talking about .... so I'll go here !! :D
I found this terrific site Plains Indian Tribes
http://www.franksrealm.com/sivu-indians-tribes.html
and here's a picture of Red Shirt .... 30 - 40 years later .... still a beautiful face !! :D
http://www.franksrealm.com/Indians/tribes/Sioux_Lakota/Oglala/pages/oglala-redshirt.htm
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Now I do ! :)
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9080
Here you go Migky ..... :)
Banks " Mediterranean Ocean. 1889" Handwritten (front row): No Neck, Rocky Bear, Black Heart, Georgie [Duffy], [Wm. F.] Cody, Bessie [Farrell], [Annie] Oakley, Red Shirt. Others in back row: Buck Taylor (fifth from right), Johnny Baker (fourth from right), Carter Couturier (?), advertising agent (second from right), Has No Horses (?) (far right)
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Seems Red Shirt never got used to sitting in front of the camera ::)
"Ogle Luta" Oh yes ;D
Wendi :)
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Don't know if any of you are close to Salford, but this coming Thursday 10th April there is a talk and film presentation being held at Langworthy Cornerstone, Salford.
6-8pm all about the Salford Sioux.
If I can get there I will, but I have prior engagements which I may not be able to get out off.
I am hoping I can, because one of my ancestors supposedley worked his passage back to England from America on one of Bill Coady's ships, and it would be great to find out if there is any documentation to support that.
Debbie
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This must have been taken the same day as the one Dave gave us !! ;D some pretty powerful men there !!
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Wonderful - they are handsome indeed - look a bit fed up at having to sit still though don't they?
But - Why has Migky's post of the marriage certificate been removed?
It was not of the original certificate. why would Migky have that? It is already online elsewhere.
Hope you are not on the naughty step Migky, seems unfair to me if you are. ???
For anyone else who still wants to see the certificate it is here:
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9080
then here:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/uksearch2003/INDIAN.jpg
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"In 1947 ... an attraction named 'Frogman Divers' ....operated by 3 demobilised midget submarine divers, one of whom possessed a Victoria Cross, who put on a display in which the public saw the divers getting through a replica of a midget sub's airlock with equipment, to make their way through mock obstruction nets" [from Looking Back at Belle Vue by Robert Nicholls]
It took me a long time to work out that it was the submarines that were midgets, not the divers ::) Anyway, the VC holder was Ian Edward Fraser, who was a colleague of James Magennis the Irish VC holder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Edward_Fraser
Is serendipity a posh word for 'wandering off topic'? ;) :D ;)
Barbara
Anyone fancy his book http://www.rootschat.com/links/0359/
By the time I got there Ken ..... the bidding had ended !! ::)
But look at all these wonderful soldiers you have there in Manchester .... the place is inundated with them !! :) you should have a ball chasing all these !! :)
Barbara ... serendipity means anything you want it to mean !! :D :D :D
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Thought you might like this .... ::)
http://www.tomdavisartifacts.com/prints.htm
RED SHIRT
Not much is know about Red Shirt except that he was of the same tribe as Sitting Bull - that of the Hunkpapa Souix. He was at the Battle of the Little Big Horn and was typical of the warriors of the period of the 1860's. He was a chief and followed Sitting Bull until the Surrender to General Miles of the U.S. Army. Richard Wallace has striven to show the pride and defiance of the warriors who face inevitable and overwhelming odds at the hands of the U.S. Army
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Surrounded by the Enemy in Salford
The mystery of where a Sioux warrior - who died in Salford 120 years ago - lies buried has been solved.
The man, named Surrounded by the Enemy, came to the north west as part of Buffalo Bill's circus in 1887 and was thought to have been buried on what is now the site of the BBC's new Media City complex in Salford.
But a policeman has traced his grave more than 200 miles away to Brompton Cemetery, a Royal park in west London.
Pc Nigel Keane, of the Metropolitan Police, said: "I suspect they brought his body down to London by train so he could be buried near his fellow Lakota warrior Paul Eagle Star.
"He was buried without any ceremony which I expect means he was not a Christian convert."
Article: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1018337_sioux_mystery_solved
I have recently been in contact with the Supervisor of Brompton Cemetery, London, and I can pass on the information that it is a matter of official record that Surrounded by the Enemy was buried there on the 15th of December 1887, and NOT in Salford.
I recently wrote an article for the Thunderbird North American Indian Society about this, so if anyone wants the details, just ask.
Four other Indians from the Wild West show were buried at Brompton. Of these, the remains of Paul Eagle Star, Long Wolf and a little girl named Star Ghost Dog were repatriated to South Dakota during the 1990s. Insofar as I am able to determine, just one - an eighteen month old boy named Red Penny - is still there, but my investigations are continuing.
http://lbha.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=bill&action=display&thread=1187217254&page=2
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Some smashing pictures on this site ....... check it out !! some we haven't seen before !! :)
During the early reservation period, there were three men named Red Shirt living on Pine Ridge. Just a caution for the possibility of confusing the various individuals.
http://lbha.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=Indians&action=display&thread=1160400266&page=1
The Red Shirt appearing in the photographs and who traveled with the Buffalo Bill Wild West Show was, as already noted, a member of the Wagluhe or Loafer Band, generally considered to be a mixture of Oglala and Brule.
In an interview in 1923, Red Shirt noted that he was born near a fort on the Platte River in Wyoming, the name of which he could not recall. Hans recently forwarded a reference to me that indicated Red Shirt was born near Orin Junction. For those of you not from Wyoming, Orin is roughly twenty miles downstream from Fort Fetterman.
Several books have indicated that Red Shirt was the son of Red Dog. This is incorrect. I have not been able to locate the original reference for this information but it is possible that this was a reference to one of the other Red Shirts (Remember, Red Dog was a Hunkpapa who married into the Oyuhpe Oglala).
Several sources indicate that our Red Shirt was the son of a white man and a Lakota mother. We do not yet know their names.
A young man named Red Shirt was part of the 1870 delegation to Washington D.C., though I can not say for certain that this was him. By the time of the Great Sioux War of 1876-77, he was a rising young man within one of the military societies, an "up and coming" individual among the Wagluhe. This band had been led by the prominent headman Big Mouth, until he was shot and killed by Spotted Tail; Big Mouth's brother Blue Horse by the mid-1870s was the most influential member of this band. In the fall of 1876 as the army dismounted and disarmed the agency bands, Blue Horse was arrested by Gen. Mackenzie for not turning in northern Indians slipping into his village. After that, Blue Horse seems to disappear from prominence, perhaps he stepped back from active political engagement. In this vacuum, several young men emerged as leaders among the Wagluhe, most prominently American Horse and Three Bears. Red Shirt seems to be most closely associated with Three Bears during this period; perhaps kind of his lieutenant.
Given his association with the Loafers, I doubt that Red Shirt was at the Little Bighorn, though we should note that a number of young men had gone out independently from their band. In later years, newspaper articles about the Wild West Show specifically stated that Red Shirt was at the Little Bighorn, but that should be taken with some skeptism, given the Buffalo Bill Cody PR machine. No doubt it was good for business for the Indians in his show to be advertised as having been at the LBH. But the possibility cannot be entirely discounted without further research.
Red Shirt became leader of a small band of Loafers on Pine Ridge about 1878-79. In his 1923 interview, he showed commissioners his chief's certificate dated 1879 signed by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior. In 1880, he traveled to Carlisle Barracks and on to Washington D.C. with Red Cloud.
Red Shirt's leadership role appears to have only lasted a few years. He soon became involved with the Wild West Shows which seems to be his main economic support for the next several decades. We will have to do some more research into his final decade to know if he became involved again at all in Oglala politics. He died in 1925
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Buffalo Bill's Wild West show
Tuesday April 28, 1903
guardian.co.uk
Upper Chorlton Road continues to be one of the busiest thoroughfares in Manchester, and after a fortnight of abnormal tramway traffic, constantly crowded footpaths, an army of zealous hawkers and a generous provision of police, the residents have almost forgotten the former secluded character of their district. The Wild West Show has achieved something very substantial in drawing so many Lancashire people to a suburb which is two miles from the railway stations and which is not easily reached by an almost unlimited number of persons within a limited period - say an hour in the afternoon and an hour in the evening - even with the assistance of the splendid electric car service. For, as always, everybody wishes to go by car at the same time, and, however long the procession of cars may be, it must have a limit, and that this limit has left the demand unsatisfied has been shown by the fact that the sixpenny buses and waggonettes from the city, not to mention the cabs, have done excellent business. On Saturday last, as on other days when the weather has been good, the stream of arrivals at the show ground continued for an hour or more after all the popular seats had been disposed of. In such weather as that of yesterday there has not been anything like the same demand for seats, and it has been under such circumstances that the disadvantage of distance from the popular centre and the railway stations must have made itself evident to the management. The organisers of the show, however, report that they have done exceedingly well, and they will be satisfied if their provincial tour progresses as prosperously as it has opened. Their prosperity has not been confined to themselves, and the Tramways Committee and the cabmen will suffer a sensible loss of income when the show leaves Manchester for Liverpool at the end of this week. It ought to be acknowledged that notwithstanding the succession of so large and miscellaneous a population as is attached to the Wild West - Red Indians, Mexicans, cowboys, Cossacks, negroes, and so forth - the good character of the neighbourhood has undergone no deterioration. The behaviour of our passing visitors of so many races and from so many lands has been excellent.
http://century.guardian.co.uk/1899-1909/Story/0,6051,98922,00.html
AND ...... just so you know ..... Buffalo Bill did take his Wild West show to Liverpool .... twice !!
Newsham Park July 5 – 18 1891 and Edge Lane Exhibition Site from May 4 – 23 1903
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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A Scottish historian who has researched the fate of a Lakota Indian who died while touring with Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show has uncovered more information about another Native American. Tom Cunningham resumed his boyhood interest in Native American history in the United Kingdom in 1991. Since then he has spent hours researching the story behind the Native Americans who toured with the former Army scout and opened his Wild West Show in 1883 in Omaha.
Cunningham says he now has pinpointed the location for the grave of an Ioway child, Corsair. ....... Corsair was born while his mother was sailing down the Missouri River, the first part of her travels to the United Kingdom. It was on another boat, this time from Edinburgh to Dundee, Scotland, that the 8-month-old boy died. He was buried in February 1845, after the Ioways conducted their funeral rites and then allowed burial by the Society of Friends, or Quakers. The Quakers had become the Ioways’ “firm and trusted friends,” Cunningham writes.
Corsair was buried Feb. 12, 1845, in a donated plot in Westgate Hill Cemetery, near Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Cunningham has been unable to find the grave, but he has located its site with what he calls reasonable precision. Corsair’s mother later died of tuberculosis and was buried in Paris.
And Cunningham also has uncovered the story of Red Penny - a Lakota child who traveled with Buffalo Bill in 1887-1988. Red Penny, too, was buried in Brompton Cemetery, joining Surrounded, Paul Eagle Star, Long Wolf and Star Ghost Dog. According to Cunningham, only the remains of Red Penny and Surrounded remain in Brompton. The other three were repatriated for reburial in South Dakota in the 1990s.
http://blogs.argusleadermedia.com/voices/
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Now this disturbs me !! ..... I can't believe they would use this proud man's picture on the package of a sleep aid and joint cream ..... I'm stunned !! :o
http://www.lakotaherbs.com/about.html
But they must have had permission ... wonder where they got it from ?? family maybe ??
I posted on the US board to see if I could find census information !!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,297641.0.htm
Annie :)
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I think you've discovered the very product for Bursy's headaches, Annie! ;D ;D ;D
I suppose its celebrity endorsement, hopefully the family were paid royalties?
I've skimmed through their background info and come across the word 'nutraceutical' - they made that up, surely!
:) Barbara
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Hi Barbara
I did buy it once, but looking at the ingredients, (Willow Bark etc.), I decided to keep to the tried and trusted remedy of Dr. Quacks Patent 3 in 1, Headache Elixer, Furniture Polish and Drain Cleaner. :D :D
Annie,
Do you think that Red Shirt was the Native American version of a famous footballer, if you close one eye and squint with the other, there is a slight resemblance.
Dave
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Serendipity again Barb !! ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutraceutical
Dave ... want me to get you some ?? ::) ... you must admit ... he IS better lookin' than that other fellah !! ::)
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Well I started that thread on the US board ... and we've found quite a bit if you'd like to see !! ..... :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,297641.0.html
Annie :)
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BBC1 The One Show did a report about this last year.
The One Show (http://www.bbc.co.uk/theoneshow/article/2007/10/no_buffalobill.shtml)
Martin Briscoe
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Earlier this year "The One Show" also interviewed Joe Brown (Singer/Songwriter) who has a passion for anything Buffalo Bill, as "his grandfather was a trick rider in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Circus" as mentioned on his page at MySpace....
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=86588190
Wendi :)
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Wendi
Nice one ;D
and your next Buffalo Bill trick is to get him to join rootschat :D :D ;D ;D
Ken
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No probs Ken ;)
just leave it to Annie and I ;D ;D :P
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.................anyone a member of Myspace ? :-\ perhaps can drop Mr. Brown a note advising him that we are here !!!
Wendi :)
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Wendi
I think everyone should have a "Annie" tucked away in a corner somewhere of every house in the world ;D
What would we do without our Annie :'(
Ken :)
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Yer, but just the one hey ;D :-*
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What are you guys sayin' ?? ... I've got no money to lend you two !! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
So who's going to talk to "Picture of You" then ??!! ::) ::)
There's a few people on Roots that have My Space ..... I've just sent a couple of PM 's ;D ;D ;D
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I went through loads of pictures at the library .... couldn't find anything specifically for Salford ... but sometime when you have a few hours to spare ::) ::) ::) take a look !! :D ..... fascinating to see how many people were involved !!
http://photoswest.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?resultsScreen+23911+1+10+-1
Records 1 - 10 of 925 in DPL Western History Photos
Search type: Author or name
Search was: Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show
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I put this on the other thread and thought I should put it here too !! :D
Black Elk was one of a party of six Lakota Indians who unwisely allowed themselves to become detached from the rest of Buffalo Bill’s entourage just before it was scheduled to sail back to the States at the end of the 1887-88 season in England. As a consequence, they found themselves stranded in Manchester. They resolved their predicament by travelling to London, where they had heard that Mexican Joe had a rival Wild West show, and enlisted as performers
http://www.tnais.com/bbis/bb.html
And I never thought about the Russians too !! :D
http://www.georgians.ge/history.htm
Annie :)
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I never heard of Mexican Joe before, but we used to have a playground skipping song:
Cowboy Joe from Mexico
Hands up, stick em up, drop your gun and pick it up
And out you go
You did the 'hands up' etc actions when it was your turn in the rope
:) Barbara
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I never heard of him either Barb .... but then I've never heard of your skipping song either !! ::) ::)
Must be a Manc thing !! :D :D :D :D
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I never heard of him either Barb .... but then I've never heard of your skipping song either !! ::) ::)
Must be a Manc thing !! :D :D :D :D
Nope Annie, it is not just a mank thing ;D
Migky ( aka B-N-M )
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22+Cowboy+Joe+from+Mexico+%22&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SUNA
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Didn't have you down as a skipper Migky - man of many talents I see ;D ;D ;D
I had a look to see if anyone knew the origin of the 'Cowboy Joe' rhyme, in case the skipping song turned out to be about Mexican Joe's wild west show - couldn't find anything though.
Must not get sidetracked into skipping songs! ::)
Mexican Joe doesn't get such a good press as Buffalo Bill though does he? Bit sad to think of his show going bust in Barnsley... sounds very cold and miserable http://www.tnais.com/bbis/mj.html
Barbara
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I never heard of him either Barb .... but then I've never heard of your skipping song either !! ::) ::)
Must be a Manc thing !! :D :D :D :D
Nope Annie, it is not just a mank thing ;D
Migky ( aka B-N-M )
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22+Cowboy+Joe+from+Mexico+%22&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SUNA
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I didn't take you for a skipper either Mig !! :D :D :D unless you've taken up boxing !! :D
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A big hello to Migky,
How you doing my friend? loads of somersaulting smileys ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
And poor old Annie, what a deprived childhood, no skipping song. Probably couldn't remember the words, I mean Mexican has at least 7 letters ::)
I know a descendant of those North American Indians, she is beautiful, and when you hear her story, you can see her immediately for who she is.
Love you all my friends, and apologies for being AWOL, but I'm back now, well at least for a few hours, who knows what tomorrow might bring ;D
How
T
x
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You're probably right Tony !! ... never even heard of a Mexican till I came to America !! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Off topic ... but it's my thread ....... :-\
All in together girls
Never mind the weather girls
When I call your birthday
You must jump in.
January, February
March, April, May, June,
July, August, September,
October, November, December!
*********************
I'm a little Dutch girl
Dressed in blue.
Here are the things
I like to do:
Salute to the captain,
Bow to the queen,
Turn my back
On the submarine.
I can do the tap dance,
I can do the split,
I can do the hokey pokey
Just like this.
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Oh Annie, so beautiful, I remember it so well cos the girls wouldn't let the boys play, meanies! ::)
Love
T
x
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I laughed when I saw this .... ;D
"Bill probably went to the Indian reservations himself to sign up the Indians for his show that year. That these "sign up" days were great occasions in the lives of the Indians is evident from a description attributed to Death Valley Scotty:
The ceremony of selecting the Indians for the show became an annual spring affair, and when he could Cody selected the lucky individuals himself. The Indians, five or six hundred of them, would come to Rushville (a Nebraska town near the South Dakota border) where the selections were made, and they came in their finest buckskins, feathers, and beads. They were quite a sight in their grand finery. Only a small part of that number could be used, and the ones not chosen felt pretty bad about it. The government required the Colonel, or his representative, to post bonds that the Indians would be well fed while away and that they would be returned to the reservation in good health and a new suit of clothes.16"
"C.D. O'Kieffe, who lived in the area in the eighties, said, "I'll never forget seeing Buffalo Bill come each spring to get his braves. They left in paint and feathers and returned, after a year, in Prince Albert coats, Stetsons, patent leather shoes and long, well-groomed glossy hair."17" [Yost. Buffalo Bill, Chicago, p. 143]
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A lovely description of their return, but can you imagine the consternation caused by their 'manc' accent. Eh up, How :o
T
x
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Getting back to the original post for this thread, there are lots of weblinks for the Buffalo's Bill's shows in Salford and the Salford Sioux although some of them are copied from each other. Try these:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/articles/2005/07/28/buffalo_bill_salford_280705_feature.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/articles/2006/01/20/200106_charging_thunder_feature.shtml
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=475572&in_page_id=1770
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/162/162611_when_sioux_braves_roamed_in_salford.html
http://www.salford.gov.uk/council/pressreleases/pressrelease.htm?id=78631
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/from-the-wild-west-to-the-northwest-how-buffalo-bills-travelling-show-left-a-sioux-legacy-in-salford-467203.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_objectid=16746089&method=full&siteid=94762-name_page.html
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/232/232596_in_pole_position_the_canadian_finding_roots_in_salford.html?rss=yes
And as for the story about the totem pole, I can confirm that it was re-erected a year or so ago
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Hi Nick and welcome to RootsChat ! :)
I think the only one we hadn't seen on here already was the last one regarding the Totem pole !! :) were you able to go and see it re-erected .... what can you tell us about that ? I'd love to see pictures if you have any !! :D :D :D
Annie :)
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Hi Annie and thanks for the welcome,
I didn't see the pole being erected myself but a friend of mine is the historic buildings officer for Salford Council who oversaw the event. I'll see what I can find out about it and see if he has any pictures, I'm sure he will. Also, another friend told me recently that one of his relations worked on the liners that went direct from Manchester Docks at Salford, down the Manchester Ship Canal, straight across the Atlantic and up the Hudson River - quite amazing really. Are you still based in Liverpool or somewhere across the pond?
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I'm across the pond !! :D :D :D
Don't know how much stamina you have ... but we started another thread here - that is turning up some extra information !! :) :) :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,297641.0.html
I'd love to find out more about that pole !!
Annie :)
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Plenty of stamina as it's Friday evening and I'm still at work, but I'll be leaving in half an hour so I'll be logging on from home later. However there is a picture of the pole before it was re-erected, at http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/articles/2007/01/03/030107_totem_home_feature.shtml
Nick
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That's very cool !! :D :D :D
Interesting that the spirituality can be felt !! .... Canadian Indians are special too ... maybe you should start another thread Nick on the Canadian board .... you may find more history :)
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Ooh, trying to get rid of me already? ;) Maybe I shouldn't admit to this but I work just over the road from the Salford Local History Library, in fact I was in there a couple of hours ago doing some research for an article I'm editing in wikipedia. So I could see if they've got any more photos of the wild west show - although I suspect if they had they would have turned up on the web already.
Nick
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No ! ... not getting rid of ... just leading you to bigger greener pastures to expand your mind !! ;D ;D ;D
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Now you're implying I'm a peabrain - it gets worse! :'( I've already got a brain the size of a planet!!! Anyway, time to go home and get my tea - see y'all soon and hey, let' s be careful out there.
Nick
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Nick
Like Annie says - welcome to rootschat and nice to get another manc on board.
Annie where can we send Nick on his first rootschat venture ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Ken
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send?? who - what - where - how - I just came along for the ride er - duuno - can't????? Oh bugger, what have I got myself into? :o :o :o
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Hi Nick!
Now about kind this offer you've made, to spend all free time for the foreseeable future in Salford Local History Library ....
Only kidding - welcome to Rooschat :D :D :D
:) Barbara
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But, but, but I just - oh, only joking - phew!!
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wow Barbara, I just noticed, Holt and Threlfall, that's some pedigree! (now Pedigree, that's a good pint)
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I've got Worthingtons as well somewhere Nick!
And Grants,, and Croft, and Taylors (port). Sadly not found any actual brewing connections yet, but you never know
:) Barbara (hic)
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damn, what a disappointment >:( keep going though, they may be there somewhere :'( :'(
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Had to go and get better photo
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Nice one Ken ;D
T
x
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I think they're smashing photos Ken !! :D :D :D :D .... but it is interesting that they didn't include his Indian name isn't it ?? ......
He must have been scared of somebody .... not sure if it was just the American Army !!
Wonder what his family at home thought - when he didn't come back ?? :-\
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At present there is free online access to British newspapers 1600 - 1900 .
On August 12 1887 in "The Liverpool Mercury" there is a report about "Mexican Joe" , who is to appear in Liverpool for an extended tour . "!Mexican Joe" is Col Joe Shelley .
The site is "Gale Digital Collections" .
I entered the name of my great grandfather , who was a Manchester police constable , and I found an 1881 report in the Manchester Times , of a court case which describes his injuries when he tried to capture a burglar .
I also found a report , from 1852 , which mentioned this man's father in law giving evidence about the Stockport riots between the English and the Irish .
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The Gale archive is good isn't it? None of my rellies seem to get into the papers ::) but fun to browse.
I wonder also Annie, how his English name was chosen? After someone he admired? Completely at random? You hear tales of immigrants that had 'difficult' names, that were altered pretty much on the whim of the immigration officer they met on the day..
:) Barbara
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Hi All,
Ken, it looks like there was some spiritual movement when you took those pictures. The angels appear to have vanished on one ;D ;D ;D
Also a warm welcome to Nick who may be wishing he had now took some of Bursy`s headache pills ::) Perhaps he may need some in the forseeable future as he shouldn`t have mentioned where he worked ;D ;D.
Night everyone,
Mo
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The angels appear to have vanished on one ;D ;D ;D
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o ;D
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I never heard of Mexican Joe before, but we used to have a playground skipping song:
Cowboy Joe from Mexico
Hands up, stick em up, drop your gun and pick it up
And out you go
You did the 'hands up' etc actions when it was your turn in the rope
:) Barbara
I have just read this out to a friend . She said they used this as a skipping song in Belfast in the '50's .
But she says there should be another line before "and out you go "
Anyone know it ?
Linden
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Oh 'eck! :D
One of my son's teachers is from Belfast I think, I'll ask her if she knows any more words tomorrow.
There was a similar one about a teddy bear - sorry Annie, off topic again - "Teddy Bear Teddy Bear turn around, teddy bear teddy bear touch the ground.." can't remember the rest!
And that song about the moon on Charlie Chaplin, but I don't think there were actions to that.
:) Barbara
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Little Bumper Car
I had a little bumper car, number 48
I took it round the cor-ner
At this point the skipper jumps out and runs round the rope turners and jumps back in again…..
Then I pull my brakes
Policeman caught me
Put me into jail
How many bottles of Ginger Ale?
Ten, twenty, thirty etc, the rope turns faster and faster and faster…
I have loads of others .... but we'll get told off for going off topic AGAIN !!!!!!!! .... oh OK just one more below !!
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Salt Pepper Vinegar
Salt, mustard, vinegar, pepper, French almond rock
Bread and butter for your supper, that's all Mother's got
Fish and chips and Coca Cola, put them in a pan
Irish stew and ice cream soda, we'll eat all we can !
Charlie Chaplin sat on a pin
Charlie Chaplin sat on a pin
How many inches did it go in?
1,2,3, etc ( skipping these numbers as "bumps") - (or twice over head
to 1 skip)
Stand at Attention
I am a Girl Guide dressed in blue
these are the actions I must do
Stand at attention,
Stand at ease,
Bend your Elbows,
Bend your knees,
Salute to the Captain,
Bow to the Queen,
Show your knicks to the boys in green!
Teddy bear, Teddy bear
Teddy bear, Teddy bear,
Touch the ground.
Teddy bear, Teddy bear,
Turn around.
Teddy bear, Teddy bear,
Show your shoe.
Teddy bear, Teddy bear,
That will do.
Teddy bear, Teddy bear,
Run upstairs.
Teddy bear, Teddy bear,
Say your prayers.
Teddy bear, Teddy bear,
Blow out the light.
Teddy bear, Teddy bear,
Say good night.
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Nebuchadnezzar , King of the Jews
Bought his wife a pair of shoes ...
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Hi Annie and all:
In case anyone is interested, you can watch a film about Buffalo Bill online. The American equivalent of the BBC, called PBS, recently broadcast a film on Buffalo Bill and his Wild West show as part of its American Experience series. The show features footage from the Buffalo Bill’s visit to London and includes the most famous Sioux, Sitting Bull. I saw the show when it was broadcast on television and found it quite interesting. As with programs of this sort, it takes apart the legend.
Here’s a link to the PBS web page for the Buffalo Bill show
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/cody/program/
On the web page, you can click on the blue-colored “Chapter 1” and get a new window to watch the program. Choose from Quicktime (for viewing on a Mac) or Windows Media (for the PC).
There is a minor inconvenience. When you get the video screen, there will be a series of squares near the bottom: one mocha colored, the rest blue. You have to click on them successively to go from the first chapter to the second and so on.
Beware: I found that enlarging the window to full screen while watching made the video disappear. I had to start all over to get the picture back.
Happy Trails,
John :o :o :o
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John ! .... lovely to see you !! :) :)
Thank you so much for that .... I missed it on PBS ..... I was ticked !! :-\ ..... but somebody told me about it ....
I'm going to look right now !!
Thanks again
Annie :)
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Annie: You're welcome. Nice to hear from you too. I've gotten on the trail of one of my lines that originated in Lancashire--they're Nevills, from Upholland, near Wigan. Everyone who sees the name envies me for my possible relation to The Kingmaker. Wouldn't I have a claim to the throne if I could prove my descent? Even if he did have only daughters for children.
Don't be surprised if I call on you for expertise.
Regards,
John
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Nah, sorry - you colonials gave up any claims to the throne when you commited the ultimate crime of throwing our tea into the sea. That was the ultimate crime and can never be forgiven. :o :o
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Nah, sorry - you colonials gave up any claims to the throne when you commited the ultimate crime of throwing our tea into the sea. That was the ultimate crime and can never be forgiven. :o :o
BRILLIANT NickR ;D
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Look what I got today ..... This is another avenue that we can pursue .... I'd love to be able to help Fillup ..... anybody got any ideas ??
Paul Eagle Star was mentioned here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=b7654d5ebadddd64e5357c56d66276d8&topic=296911.30
I'm going to add this post to the other US thread also !!
Hello Annie - Your information came up via RootsChat.Com when I was doing a web search. I have some 'Great' relatives that were connected with B.B.W.W.S.. They were with the 1887 & 1891 tours. I'm specifically looking for information on a Mr. Paul Eagle Star , a Burle Indian, that died from injuries received in the opening performance of the 1891 tour. His remains were allegedly return to South Dakota in the early 1990's for reburial. My Great Grandfather was George C. Crager, he was an Lakota interpreter for B.B.W.W.S. and was with Mr. Paul Eagle Star at his death.
My Great Uncle James W. Willoughby "Jim Kid"and Crager were brothers-in-law. Jim was a champion rider and roper that was married to Lillian Francis Smith. Lillian was a trick shooter and rival to Annie Oakley. Both Jim & Lillian performed in the 1887 Jubilee Tour.
I've posted a web site about Jim 'Kid', if you'd care to see some of his photographs and read about his career please give it a visit:
http://web.mac.com/fillupe/Site/James_W._Willoughby.html
Also attached are four additional web sites that I have posted. Please pass along any information that you may have concerning Mr. Paul Eagle Star time permitting.
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/legends/vpost?id=2464870
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/legends/vpost?id=2473274
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/legends/vpost?id=2446167
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/legends/vpost?id=2465621
fillupe
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Hi fillupe !
If you're reading this .... did you get in touch with Brompton Cemetery ?? your Paul Eagle Star was supposedly buried there originally .... they may have records !
Annie :)
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This would be a very cool picture ... if we could see it properly !! :D :D ::)
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Now thats a challenge for the restoration team hey Anni, i wounder if they will take the bait ;D
Image removed as it may infringe copy rights
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It shouldn't be too difficult a job to enhance the contrast and clean it up a bit. I know someone who'se pretty good with photoshop but he's away on holiday at the moment. If no-one else takes it up I'll ask him to have a look when he gets back. Do you know where it was taken?
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IMAGE REMOVED IN BREACH OF COPYRIGHT
Photo way to small (64kb) to make any great difference
MancsMan
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Thanks MancsMan !! :D :D :D that's better ! ....... at least you can see it ... just not the faces !!
Though I think I can see Red Shirt in the middle !! ::)
Annie :)
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Thought you might enjoy this one !! :D
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A snippet from Tom Cunningham ....... :) was anybody's family from Pendleton ??
As was frequently the case elsewhere, a local group of underprivileged children found themselves the grateful recipients of one of Buffalo Bill’s legendary philanthropic impulses. For, as an unidentified and undated newspaper article related
‘THE WILD WEST.- Five hundred Pendleton poor children were invited to the Wild West Show last evening. Under the charge of Mr. James Richardson, the children, assembling at the Pendleton Lads’ Club, marched in procession via Old Trafford to the show, headed by the boys’ band of the Salford Union. It is almost unnecessary to state that the youngsters thoroughly enjoyed the entertainment and keenly appreciated the kindness of Colonel Cody.’
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Pendleton Lads Club! Very very famous musical pilgrimage place - at the risk of going off at a tangent (who me? ;D ;D would I do that) this is the place Morrissey & the Smiths made famous
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/61/61750_100_years_of_lads_club_history.html
good pub quiz question that - what's the link between Morrissey and Buffalo Bill!
:) Barbara
(with some family from Pendleton)
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Pendleton Lads Club! Very very famous musical pilgrimage place - at the risk of going off at a tangent (who me? ;D ;D would I do that) this is the place Morrissey & the Smiths made famous
The article talks about Salford lads Club in Ordsall, I suspect Pendleton Lads Club was a different place. :(
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Could be - I noticed it 'cos of the request at the bottom of the article mentioning James Richardson, the chap that took the kids to see the show.
Salford district boundary lines not my best point! ::) (also more an Oasis fan than a Smiths one)
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I'd prefer the Hollies any day - oops, giving away my age now! ::)
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Oh well, I was just showing off - am also old enough to remember Hermans Hermits..
But i wasn't going to go off-topic!
:) Barbara
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Now you've done it! You've set me off on adding to the wikipedia article on Salford Lads Club, and I've just found it could be useful as another resource for you genealogy bods. See the link I just found here. http://www.lhi.org.uk/projects_directory/projects_by_region/north_west/manchester/the_salford_lads_club_quaker_girl_bazaar/index.html
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You may also be interested in the old photo's here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/aberystwyth/pages/salfordladsclub.shtml
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I was asked if I knew if any of the Manchester Regiment were involved with Buffalo Bill in his Manchester shows ...... ! ( possibly the Congress of Rough Riders of the World ) ::)
This is the closest I could get .... does anybody know anybody who was part of the Manchester Troop ??
http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/firstwar.htm
Annie :)
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I just found a picture of part of the totem pole I mentioned on here some time ago at http://rmhh.co.uk/mliners.html There are also lots of nice pictures of Manchester docks too.
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Hi all, I can see that this thread hasn’t been used in a long while but hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction.
I’m helping some friends research a possible link between their families and Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show. My friends are Romanies and they have a long standing family story about how some of the Sioux Indians lived with them in Salford and later travelled with them. I’ve seen recently that some Sioux disappeared during or just after the Battle of Little Big Horn - I understand they were over here at the time - could they have disappeared with the Romany Gypsies?
Please can anyone tell me the best place to look to find more information about their stay on Salford and their disappearance?
Thanks
Jill
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Glasgow's Ghost Shirt which was on display at Kelvingrove Museum for many years was returned to the Lakota Sioux.
https://everything2.com/title/Ghost+Shirt
Bests,
Skoosh.
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Thank you Skoosh, I found the article very sad and moving - what chance did the Native Indians have against guns and the massive force of the white man.