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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Myfi! on Sunday 13 April 08 15:54 BST (UK)
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Monumental Inscription at Burstwick, Yorkshire reads:
In memory of Hannah the daughter of Matthew Abbey late of Ridgmont now of Sixverst near St. Petersburg in Russia with whom she resided in that Country eight years
but her return thither was prevented by the termination of her mortal existence on the 4th of December 1846 in the 25th year of her age.
(death cert says she died of consumption :'()
Hannah was the younger sister of my direct line Mercy, who didn't go.
Matthew and his wife (also named) Mercy and a couple more children do not appear to have returned to England so think they probably died there.
Am assuming (rightly or wrongly) that Matthew worked for the "Russian Factory" at St. Petersburg.
question 1: Are there any passenger lists from England to Russia circa 1838 ?
question 2: Is there such a place a Sixverst? I've googled and googled but can't find it.
any help/pointers appreciated
Myfi
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Hi Myfi
I've searched without result for references to 'Sixvert' in and around St Petersburg. A few suggestions though - verts is an archaic unit of length (1.0668 km) six in Russian would be Shest; I've therefore also searched 'Shestverts' on both English and Russian (Cyrillic) maps. As you are probably aware, many place names were renamed during Soviet times and some reinstated or renamed again. Shestverts could equally have been the name of a residence or estate rather than a town or village. St Petersburg was established in a swamp and much of the surrounding land is featureless. Distance markers are commonly used even today to identify a particular spot. Shestverts could possibly have been approx 6 km from the City centre and therefore long since consumed by the 'modern' suburbs.
Check for BD&M in the Overseas section of the Family Research Centre, London. Many ex-pats registered events at the British Embassy St Petersburg
Any details of the 'Russian factory'? I'd be happy to put you in contact with a local researcher if you wish to explore this subject further
Regards
Malcolm
St Petersburg, Russia
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Hello Malcolm
Thank you so much for taking the time to look for the possible whereabouts of 'Sixverst'. Your explanation seems very plausible to me.
Not really sure if Matthew did actually work for the "Russian Factory" as he went to Russia pre UK census so unsure of his occupation. His father in law was a Dealer in Flax but his own father was a labourer, as were most of the family around that time.
I have read a little on the "Russian Factory" and was quite amazed at how many British were there at that time.
Will certainly look into the BMDs at the FRC in London, probably have to hire a researcher as am unable to get there myself.
Many thanks, really appreciated,
Myfi
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Monumental Inscription at Burstwick, Yorkshire reads:
In memory of Hannah the daughter of Matthew Abbey late of Ridgmont now of Sixverst near St. Petersburg in Russia with whom she resided in that Country eight years
but her return thither was prevented by the termination of her mortal existence on the 4th of December 1846 in the 25th year of her age.
(death cert says she died of consumption :'()
Hannah was the younger sister of my direct line Mercy, who didn't go.
Matthew and his wife (also named) Mercy and a couple more children do not appear to have returned to England so think they probably died there.
Am assuming (rightly or wrongly) that Matthew worked for the "Russian Factory" at St. Petersburg.
question 1: Are there any passenger lists from England to Russia circa 1838 ?
question 2: Is there such a place a Sixverst? I've googled and googled but can't find it.
any help/pointers appreciated
Myfi
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Hello Myfi,
I think I am from the same family. My great-grandfather, John Abbey was born abt 1846 at Ridgmont.
We have had difficulty tracing him earlier than his marriage to Jane Williamson in 1880 at Brompton, Yorkshire. We can't find him on the census before 1881, in fact it took us ages to find where Ridgmont was as on the census it was Rigmont, Hull.
Only today I received the Monumental Inscriptions for Burstwick and found the death of Hannah Abbey. I googled Sixvert and found your email .
I'd really appreciate any help you could give me.
Margaret.
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Hi Margaret
My first Abbey connection is Mercy b.1814 dau of the Matthew who went to Russia.
Afraid I have nothing else on the later family......not sure if all the children (bar my Mercy) went with the parents or if some stayed behind. (can't see any of them on census.....arrrg)
I've just had a quick look for your John and like you, can't find him on earlier census....tried all variant spellings of the surname....how frustrating ???
I'll have another hunt for him later this evening.
Do you have his marriage cert? would be interesting to know his father's name.
Myfi
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Hi Myfi,
Thank you so much for your reply and your help.
On the marriage certificate it gives his father's name as William Abbey. On the 1841 census I've found a William Abbey, born abt 1820 in the parish of Burstwick, living on the farm of William Stickney at Ridgmont. But I can't find him after that.
Margaret.
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Oooo Margaret
This is getting interesting...
The William you found on the 1841 could well be the son of Matthew - baptised 15 Aug 1819 Skeckling with Burstwick.
will send you a personal message (you will see up in the right hand corner messages click on that to read.
Myfi
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Hello all:
I've just logged onto this site for the first time having googled Abbey + St. Petersburg. My Abbey family also went to Russia.
My father (Edward John) was the last member of his family to be born there (in Orenberg) in 1917.
My grandfather George Abbey (married Eliza Helen Scotson)was born in Gatchina although he was educated in England. His sister Lucy married a Mr. Welch and went to live near Baltimore in the US. There was a brother Eddie who was a merchant seaman. Two more brothers Arthur and Alfred who married and lived in the Midlands and a spinster sister Elsie, who also lived in the Midlands.
I think my gf George was the son of John Abbey who had a sister Mary who married a Mr. Pollock, a brother Walter and a couple of other brothers and sisters. I know they had property in St. Petersburg at the time of the Revolution.
Does any of this tie up?
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Forgot to add that my Abbey family also originated from Yorkshire. The story passed down the generations is that they came from Selby.
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Hello tiggertwo :)
I haven't come across the names you mention but as I haven't been able to find anything much on a couple of Matthew's sons it's possible that your family may be descended from one of them.
Matthew's sons:
George b.1816 Burstwick, married Alice Jordan in 1838 Patrington, then disappears
William b.1819 Burstwick, married Eleanor Lee in 1851 St. Petersburg, one child found -Mary b.1861 St. Petersburg
A great nephew of my Matthew also seems to have gone to Russia -
George Fairbank Abbey b.1841 Burstwick married Sophie Ehren 1862 St. Petersburg
any of these names mean anything to you?
Myfi
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Hello Myfi:
Thanks for the info. I'll try and follow up on the two leads you've given me. I need to check where Burstwick is. I'll let you know if I get anywhere. My family lived in the St. Petersburg area for several generations prior to the Revolution. The family story is that my ggggrandfather took the first mechanical plough out to Russia but this could just be a legend.
Tiggertwo
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Hi Tiggertwo
Have sent you a personal message (click on messages to read)
Myfi
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Hello Tiggertwo,
The family story is that my ggggrandfather took the first mechanical plough out to Russia but this could just be a legend.
Maybe not a legend:
From 'The review of various sectors of manufacturing in Russia' vol. ii, page 75:
List of mechanical plants in Russia by regions and sectors:
72. Abbey, St. Petersburg, agricultural machinery and work tools
'The review of various sectors of manufacturing in Russia' St. Petersburg, 1867, vol. ii, page 75
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'Index to St. Peterburg's exhibition of manufactures of Russian Empire', St. Peterburg, 1849, page 45:
No 285. ABBEY (Foreign subject Vasiliy Matveev) in St. Peterburg
Plough; cultivator; double harrow; thresher on wheels; winnowing machine; model of roller with wooden drum
Matveev - son of Matvey (Mathew)
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Another one, from "Delovoy Peterburg" (Peterburg Business newspaper) No. 203 (1545) dd. 30.10.2003:
At the V All-Russia Exhibition of manufacturing in St. Petersburg in 1861, Baltiysky and Nevsky plants got their first small gold medals, Wilkins and Shaw - small silver medals. In addition, Ashworth-Stephens, Thornton, and Vasiliy Matveyevich Abbey received the 'public praise' (Vassily Matveyevich remaining the subject of the British Crown, had a facility for the production of agricultural machinery at the 11-verst of Peterhof trakt (highway), he worked in Russia and for Russia).
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Mike
Gosh, this is really great stuff that you have found for us.
Thank you so much :-*
Myfi
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- Vasiliy Matveevich Abbey died in 1894 (Report of Imperial Free Economic Society for 1894, published in 1895).
'...Favorable review of Johnston reaping machine from two farmers of Sapozhkovskiy region of Ryazan province ... According to Mr. Abbey, in his estate harvesting machine reaped, rye, oats, mustard and other cereals pure and irreproachable. Cut crop was thrown off the platform smoothly, clearly and in sheaves of random size. 62 desyatins (acres) were reaped without any damage and knives need not to be sharpened...'
(Papers of Imperial Free Economic Society, 1873)
So, Abbey should be searched in Ryazan province too (I have only 1894 address book and there is no record of him)
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Dear Mike
This is incredible information that you are finding.
Thank you
It is greatly appreciated
As Matveev means son of Matvey (thankyou for that) does Matveeich mean the same or something slightly different?
Myfi
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Matveevich means the same: Vasiliy Matveev Abbey = Vasiliy Abbey, the son of Matvey = Vasiliy Matveevich Abbey
I sent a message and already received reply from this Ryazan' town. They have not heard the name, but promised to make a search.
Mike
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Matveevich means the same: Vasiliy Matveev Abbey = Vasiliy Abbey, the son of Matvey = Vasiliy Matveevich Abbey
thank you... I understand now. :)
It was extremely kind of you to send a message to the Ryazan town and also very kind of them say they would do a search. Hope they find something.
Myfi
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Hello Myfi,
No reply yet from Ryazan town, but meantime have found another bit:
from the Minutes of Morshansk county committee on Agricultural industry, sittings on 20 and 21st August 1902:
present: ..... V. V. Abbey - member of the Agricultural Society.
This V.V. Abbey seems to be grandson of Mathew Abbey and son of Vasiliy Matveevich Abbey
Mike
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Hi Mike
Many thanks for that.
He is possibly the chap I've found on a passenger list as a Refugee from Russia arriving in the UK in 1920. (William ABBEY age 52)
Myfi
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Just found in one Russian book published in 1893 that at this time M.V. Abbey was an assistant to the estate manager at the estate of Count Pashkov, village Vitoshkino, Sergachskiy uyezd (district), Nizhnegorodskaya guberniya (province). Coordinates N 55° 17' E 45° 03'
Mike
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I have noticed that in Russian documents William had the Russian form Vasily.
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More really useful info. Thank you so much.
One question - if Vasily is William, is Matvey and other forms of it, Matthew?
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Hello tiggertwo,
We seem to look for same family.
William Abbey and Eleanor Lee had several children. Among which there were at least two daughters Lily and Mary. Among sons Walter, William, Matthew and Alfred
I have heard that Alfred went to Boer War, stayed in Africa and then lived in the Midlands.
Mary was married to Thomas Pollock, Lily was married to an Englishman and they lived in Russia.
Walter lived also in Russia with his family.
Orenberg - do you mean the town in Russia south of the Urals Orenburg?
Matvey is Russian for Matthew.
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Last try!
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Tiggertwo and you all
the old lady on the historical photograph is no one else than Eleanor Lee (1826-1916). She was married to William Abbey (1819-1880). My Great great great grandmother.
hessu
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Gosh! this is really getting exciting :D
Tiggertwo ... thank's everso for posting the piccie.
Hessu ... which of William & Eleanor's children are you descended from?
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Hi Hessu:
This is really great. Which of the old ladies is Eleanor Lee? How are you related to this family and do you know the name of my great grandfather?
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Hi Tiggertwo,
The young man (tall one) in the uniform apparently was an University student. The badge on the cap and on the collar says that he studied to be a mining engineer. But shoulder straps are not clear enough to define the name of University.
Mike
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Eleanor Lee is the grey haired old lady sitting next to the little boy holding a straw hat to the left in the photograph. I come from the line of Lily Abbey.
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Very interesting developments and great to see some new contributions.
On Mining Engineers, St Petersburg maintains to this day one of the largest Mining Institutes in the world and several museums and archives. Many Europeans came to St Petersburg especially in the pre-revolutionary period to take advantage of Russia's mineral wealth. Check out similar enquiries in RootsChat.
Browsing the web I found this intersting article in Russian:
"Citizen of Great Britain, Abbey is allowed to open the carriage route from Nikolsky Market along the Narvsky Road to country houses so the carriages can stop to take passengers at the square near the Krukov Channel and so Abbey precisely follows the rules for carriages set forth by the law as well as he should follow the police prescription. Order number 31 paragraph 6 of 10th May 1868"
Described is a south-westerly route from Nikolsky in the Admiraltisky district of St Petersburg towards Peterhoff and the Narva Road (Estonian border town).
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Myfi and Tiggertwo,
Hessu decends from William and Eleanor's daughter Lily (born 1854).
I don't know how you can reach Russian archives and give an order to make research on some person. Neither do I know what that will cost. I do know that any address where the person lived in Russia is of great importance. Address is the key.
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Mike:
The cap badge indicating an Engineering student would make sense, as we were always told that the young man was the Russian tutor to the family and my grandfather, the young lad in the cap, went on to become an Engineer as well.
My first Abbey family member who went out to Russia, apparently took the first mechanical plough out there. The family seem to have had a lot of Engineering types (to this day).
Lynne
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Hessu:
2 more photos.
First one is the elderly lady in the family photo which I posted before.
Second one is my grandfather George, his wife Eliza Helen Scotson and my father Edward John.
I'll attach them separately so I don't lose this note.
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Hessu:
Photo 1
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Hessu/Mike:
Photo 2 - Mike another badge for you!
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Hessu:
Photo 1 - Lily
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Hi Tiggertwo
I don't think that George's cap badge is Russian. It looks like the ones worn by the Royal Engineers WW1
my dad served in the RE for 20 odd years and it looks very similar.
Myfi
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I agree on the military cap badge being British, at high resolution it looks like GR. On the Russian insignia, two of my Russian colleagues I showed it to immediately said Railway Engineer? Unfortunately, the crossed hammers are used by both mining and railway engineers so a trip to both museums may be required to confirm which it is. I'll keep you posted.
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Hi Mike :)
Think the GR is George Rex (King George V) later badges (in my dad's time) had ER - Elizabeth Regina (Queen Elizabeth 11)
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Interesting, because although my grandfather was born, lived and worked in Russia, he was sent to England to school. He went to Bishop Vesey in Sutton Coldfield so could probably have gone to College in Birmingham too. My grandparents were married in Aston, Birmingham and there was a technical college there (now part of Birmingham University I think).
It seems odd though that he would have enlisted in the Royal Engineers and then returned almost immediately to Russia. As far as I am aware, he never served in WWI as he was in Russia during that period. I know this for sure because my father was born in Orenburg in early 1917 and my grandfather was apparently engaged in some sort of liaison role between the Tsar and the British Ambassador during these years.
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Hello,
Family photos. Old lady to the left in the large family photo and sitting alone in a rocking chair is Eleanor Lee (born 1826 in Bradford (Yorks.), married 26.9.1851 in St. Petersburg, and died Feb.1916, buried in a local cemetary near Terijoki in the Grand Duchy of Finland (later Rep. of Finland). That area is now in Russia (after WW2) and is still used as cemetary, but the history has all been totally cleared away.
hessu
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Hessu
Thank you so much for the info re Eleanor's death/burial.
Do you know when her husband William died, or where he is buried?
myfi
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William Abbey (born April 3rd, 1819) died 1880 in Russia. I have no date to give nor where in Russia he died and is buried. I assume in St. Petersburg.
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Just noticed I never replied to a post. Yes, my father Edward John Abbey, was born in the town of Orenburg, south of the Urals. Later became Chaklov but is once again called Orenburg.
I have a translation of his birth at Maternity Department formerly Institution of Empress Maria Maternity Home, Orenburg (Orenburg Maternity Home). He was born there on 17th February 1917 (Russian calendar). The Director of the maternity home who signed the Certificate on 19th May, 1917 was Dr. Varushkin Slutzki (or Shutzki). The document was also signed and stamped by the Chief of the Militia, 1st division of Orenburg.
How far is Orenburg from Ekaterienberg?
I was told that my family had left Russia through Finland but perhaps they had decided to try and leave by a southern route instead. They were certainly on a train at some stage during the winter because we have a photo album full of pictures taken from the train. Some pretty awful - showing people hanging from gibbets alongside the railway, etc.
Lynne
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Later became Chaklov but is once again called Orenburg.
Between 1938 and 1957 Orenburg was named Tchkalov (after famous Soviet pilot, who perished in 1938).
How far is Orenburg from Ekaterienberg?
Distance between Orenburg and Ekaterinburg (Sverdlovsk during Soviet times) is 863 kilometers
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Thanks Seamike. I guess western maps just spelled it differently!
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I noticed in one post you mention Walter Abbey, brother to John Abbey. He lived in Samara (Soviet time Kuibysev) on the Volga early 1900 and later in Moscow.
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Hessu
On one of your posts I see you give a date of birth for William (3 April 1819) ...do you have a source? Just trying to confirm that he is the same William that was baptised 15 August 1819 Skeckling with Burstwick, Yorkshire.
Myfi
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Hi,
No, I have nor I have seen any official documents. I got the date a long time ago from relatives. I know that due to a tradition the search was in the Selby area. It was only some years ago that I heard from relatives of a Willïam Abbey from Skeckling with Burstwick and also that somehow the person disappeared. Now we know that he disappeared to Russia. We had had no other knowledge that it was in the 19th centenary when Abbeys left England for Russia.
hessu
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Hessu/Myfi:
Hessu, I haven't forgotten about my email. Just short of time at the moment - but will get around to it. Busy changing country for the winter.
I don't know where I found this snippet of info. but as Burstwick is near York and a suburb of Hull, that William may be related to the following post by -
Eric Abbey in reply to Henry W Abbey from Hull, England by Theresa Orr.
"So far as I am aware, there are 2 branches of Abbey in Hull, the Henry W that you seek is probably not an immediate relation of mine but I would be very interested to know if you are aware what the W is for. My grandfather was Harry Waite Abbey (1879 - 1959). He was born in Hull and lived there all his life. His father John, was originally from York in northern England so it is likely that the two families are separate".
I'm guessing that he doesn't live in the UK and know the Geography.
He goes on -
"Out of interest there is a large window in the Holy Trinity Church in old town Hull which is dedicated to the Abbey family. There is also a large burial plot in a now disused cemetery on Spring Bank West just north of the centre of Hull. This burial plot is, I think, that of the Abbey family commemorated in the Holy Trinity window.
If you know what the W stands for, it may link the two families"
I think his two families probably are linked, purely because of the closeness of the 2 towns.
I'm not sure if this helps us in any way but I thought it might be a snippet you didn't have.
tiggertwo
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Hessu/Myfi:
Just found the following on Genforum.
Does anyone have any information on William Abbey born c 1781, married Mercy Smart born c. 1786. They were married in 1806. Their daughter Mercy married Wm. Harness.
MARY WAS THE DAUGHTER OF JOHN AND MARY HOWCROFT(NEE BENSON)
SHE WAS BAPTISED 2ND JULY 1746 IN SELBY ABBEY.
HAD A E-MAIL SAYING MERCY ABBEY BORN 1874.BURSTWICK MARRIED A WILLIAM HARNESS
MERCY WAS THE DAUGHTER OF MATTHEW ABBEY BORN 1785.HAMBLETON.BRAYTON.
MATTHEW WAS THE SON OF WILLIAM ABBEY BORN 1733.WISTOW.NR
SELBY.
WILLIAM ABBEY HAD THIRTEEN CHILDREN
IN 1802 MATTHEWS BROTHERS WENT TO SELBY.
DID YOU KNOW SOME ABBEY WENT TO RUSSIA?
AM TRYING TO CONNECT WILLIAM HARNESS MYSELF.
MIKE
Posted by: micheal smith (ID *****4757) Date: November 23, 2009 at 05:50:07
In Reply to: Re: William Abbey of Yorkshire, England by micheal smith of 666
hi.found a old e-mail.02.07.2008.
how i slot in the abbey family.
grandmother mercy abbey born 1814 burstwick
married william harness.
mercy was the daughter of matthew abbey .born 1785 ,hambleton.brayton
matthew was the son of william ,born 1744.wistow.
had thirteen children.
moved to selby 1802.
mike.
tiggertwo
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From 1905 St. Petersburg address book:
Abbey Eleonora
Vasilievskiy Ostrov, 6 liniya, 25
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Thankyou for that Mike
Myfi
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In 1914 Moscow address book:
Alfred and Eleonora Abbey living 14, Voznesenskaya street
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Also, in 1916 Moscow address book:
Abbey Walter Vas. (Vasilievich) at 1st Znamenskiy lane and M.V. Abbey at Station Bashilovka
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Hello Seamike
I must try to find out to which branch of the Abbey family Alfred and Eleonora from Vosnezhensky belong to. All Abbeys are related. Walter Abbey from Znamensky 1 is related to me and same person who once lived in Samara and later in Moscow and got out of Russia for England with his family.
hessu
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Hello All:
Sitting in an airport lounge so very quick response.
My great uncle Alfred was married to Nell. Could this be a short version of Eleanora? They ended up in the UK living in the Midlands. He is one of the boys in the family photo taken in Russia. I'm en route back to my home in South Africa where I have my files so may be
able to check that street address.
tiggertwo
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tiggertwo
Yes, I would say that Nell is one short version of Eleonora. I've been in Moscow found the site where Walter lived at Znamensky 1 (Street name has been changed since). The other address where Alfred and Eleonora lived exist no longer because new streets and houses have been built there. Anyway it is not far from where Moscow Dynamo stadium is today.
hessu
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Sorry for mixing up addresses!
It is M.V Abbey's Bashilovka address, which I ment. That site and Abbey House there has vanished and was not far from where Moscow Dynamo stadium is now.
Voznesenskaya address I have not been aware of.
hessu
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Hi myfi:
On your site page 4 item 56, you left me a personal message. I can't access this. Please can you post it on my tiggertwo site.
I know it's old but I just came across it. I think my gggrandfather might have been George Fairbanks Abbey. Do you know if Sophie Ehrens was Austrian? Any info about this couple would be much appreciated.
Thanks a lot.
tiggertwo
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Hi Tiggertwo ;D
Just checked that message I sent you-
It was a reference to UK incoming passengers 3 May 1920 HMT "Tagus" list of Russian refugees which included these Abbey folk:
Alfred ABBEY age 56
E. ABBEY (female) not sure if it says 34 or 74 (bit blurry)
William ABBEY age 52
Mrs W. ABBEY age 54
Walter ABBEY age 52
Anna ABBEY age 55
Myfi
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George Fairbanks ABBEY bapt 20 Oct 1841 Skeckling with Burstwick s/o of Joseph & Jane (Fairbanks) ABBEY. George married Sophie Ehren 1862 Russia
Joseph ABBEY bapt 14 Feb 1814 Selby s/o Marmaduke & Mary (Campey) ABBEY
Marmaduke (sometimes referred to as Duke) ABBEY bapt 29 Mar. 1773 Brayton s/o William & Mary (Hawcroft) ABBEY
William ABBEY bapt 15 Aug 1819 Skeckling with Burstwick s/o Matthew & Mercy (Smart) ABBEY. William married Eleanor Lee 1851 Russia.
Matthew ABBEY bapt 22 Jan 1785 Brayton s/o William & Mary (Hawcroft) ABBEY
think this makes George Fairbank Abbey b1841 & William Abbey b1819 second cousins.
Not too sure that you are descended from George Fairbanks Abbey as you have a photo of Eleanor(Lee)Abbey and family.
hope this makes sense
Myfi
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I have been following this forum with much interest because my gggrandparents were also William Abbey and Eleanor Lee . Their marriage on 26th September 1851 in the British and American Chapel in St Petersburg is recorded on the National Archive site as is the wedding of their daughter Mary to Thomas Pollock on 17th May 1888. I think that the reason why so many of the family returned to the West Midlands after the Revolution was because Tom Pollock had, by then, become a very successful businessman , was living in Sutton Coldfield and was able to offer them some support . :)
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Hi Mocca
Welcome to Rootschat
It's great to have you join us.
We would appreciate any information you may have on William & Eleanor(Lee) Abbey, especially the names of all their children if you have them.
Myfi
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Hi Mifi
I have some information about William and Eleanor's family but not all the dates of birth.
John (related to Tiggertwo)
Alfred
Matthew ( died in Russia sometime before 1917)
Lily ( Louisa) born 1854 died 1938)
William ( born 1855)
Mary ( born 1861 died UK 1935)
Walter (born 1865 died UK 1953 )
Do hope this is useful information.
Does anyone have any information about a painter called Edwin Austen Abbey who has a plaque in St Pauls Cathedral . He was American and painted the coronation portrait of Edward VII. According to family legend he also a member of the family but I'm not sure how he is connected!
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many thanks Mocca
afraid I have no knowledge of Edwin Austen Abbey.
Just found this for Mary Elizabeth (Abbey) Pollock which may be of interest for anyone researching her-
Index to Wills 1936 - POLLOCK Mary Elizabeth of Park Vale Wylde Green Sutton Coldfield
Warwickshire (wife of Thomas Pollock) died 10 April 1936
Probate Birmingham 5 September to Thomas Pollock company director
and William Pollock departmental manager. Effects £50900 14s 9d
Myfi
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Hi Myfi
Thanks for the information about Mary Pollock's will. That is a lot of money when translated into its value today.
Mocca
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Hi Mocca
Certainly was a lot of money.
Wonder if this could be for her brother Matthew :-\
Wills and Administrations 1921 - ABBEY Matthew Edwin of Moscow Russia died 1 March 1916
Administration London 19 October to Margaret Abbey widow
Effects £106
I forgot to ask, which of William & Eleanor's children are you descended from?
Myfi
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Hi Myfi
I don't have any information about Matthew although I would be surprised if there was a link between the two wills.
My ggrandmother was Lily ( Louisa) who was married to a William Goffe. Although this is an unusual spelling of this surname I have never been able to find out where he came from or what he was doing in Russia.
Mocca
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Hi Mocca:
You and Hessu seem to share the same grandmother (Lily). See previous correspondence from him and photos I posted on page 3.
tiggertwo
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Hi Tiggertwo
Yes , we do indeed share the same grandmother but Hessu is descended from her elder daughter and my family come from her younger one.
Mocca
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I have just joined, have read all. I have info on Matthew and family. Some papers I am lucky to have might help. Please respond!
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Hi Fel:
Any info you have would be of interest to all of us on this site. Can you post it up?
Best wishes.
Tiggertwo
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Hello Tiggertwo
My tree shows Matthew ABBA b.1785 Hambleton Yorkshire d.1851 in Volvoro, Russia, m.1806 Mercy Smart b.1785.
Having farmed in Yorkshire he had experience in land irrigation. the Tsar heard of this and asked for him to go to St.P to give advice. This he did, taking son William b.1819 Burstwick.
Are you connected to William b.1855, he went to S.Africa to manage estate of childrens' ophanage.
Wm Harness m. Mercy( b.1814 in Holme upon Spalding Moor, Yorkshire) in 1831.
Of any interest?
Regards Fel
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Hello Fel
That is very interesting because I have always understood that the family went to Russia to manage estates for landowners and if Matthew had special skills in land irrigation that would support that theory. He was also a witness at William and Eleanor's wedding in Sept 1851 so must have died soon afer that.
William (b.1855) must be the brother of my ggrandmother ,Lily,
but I know nothing about him and would be very interested if you have any further information.
Regards
Mocca
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Hello Fel,
Welcome aboard :)
I am decended from Matthew's daughter Mercy who married William Harness. Do you have a source for Matthew's death in 1851?
How do you fit in with the family?
Would be interested in anything else you have on this family.
Please ask away if you think any of us may be of help you.
Myfi
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Hello Mocca,
Thanks for your responce. William b.1855 was educated in St.P. He took over managing the Estates of a Russian Duke, from William b.1819. He married and had a daughter May Abbey (Mabel Gertrude Irene) b.1900. At one time they lived in Vetoshkino. She was in Swizterland about 1912.
William b.1855 may have married a second time to a Russian, Tanta Anna
William b.1855 went to S.Africa, May had a daughter there, Peggy who married T. Mclean.
Was your Ggrandmother Lily the one who went Finland?
Regards, Fel
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Hello Myfi,
Thanks for the contact. I have a letter written by Matthew Lee Abbey b.about 1840, which says 'Grandfather Matthew Abbey was 66 when he died and was buried at Volvoro'
My line is - GGrandfather William Abbay b.1819. Grandfather was Alfred Shepherd Abbey b.1863.
Try me with any questions!
Regards, Fel
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Hi Fel
Thanks for that, do you have a date for the letter?
re your grandfather Alfred.... is he the one married to Margaret Ritson and aged 27 living in Bolton on the 1891 census with his soon to be in-laws ?
Am having a bit of difficulty with a William bc 1868 who appears on the Refugee list of the Tagus in 1920
Hi Tiggertwo ;D
Just checked that message I sent you-
It was a reference to UK incoming passengers 3 May 1920 HMT "Tagus" list of Russian refugees which included these Abbey folk:
Alfred ABBEY age 56
E. ABBEY (female) not sure if it says 34 or 74 (bit blurry)
William ABBEY age 52
Mrs W. ABBEY age 54
Walter ABBEY age 52
Anna ABBEY age 55
Myfi
any thoughts would be welcome
Myfi
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Hello Myfi,
The letter was d/d 30 Oct 1905, his info came from 'the church books in St. Pet'.
The passenger list is a problem. Alfred Abbey age 56 is correct
E Abbey would have been his eldest dauaghter, Eleanor, who did stay with him, she was 24.
I having a think about the others! come back to you soon.
Yes he did marry Margaret Hannah Ritson in 1893, in Bolton, he served apprenteship in engineering and worked there before returning to Russia.
regards, Fel
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Hello All:
Regarding the passenger list. I think the E Abbey may be Elsie Abbey aged 34 (my grandfather George's youngest sister) and I think that Walter, William and Alfred were my grandfathers uncles, as this Alfred is too old to be his brother.
Hessu is the one who really seems to know all these intricacies, made worse by the fact that each generation used the same christian names.
Fel, please can you post a copy of the letter you have, on this site.
Thanks.
Tigger two
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Hello Tiggertwo,
Re passenger list, the age for Alfred is correct. Mrs W Abbey could have been Walter's Wife, he had married Russian named Lucy (very charming). There is a thought that William married a second time to a Russian named Tanta Anna.
Any help or does it add to the confusion.
John could not travel with them, he escaped travelling eastwards, my Aunt wrote "I think he even touched Japan".
Matthews letters are not suitable for posting. I will type out the parts that are of interest.
Regards Fel
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Hello Fel
Will send you a personal message with my email address, although it will be better to keep most of our communications on this board so that the others can see it.
Myfi
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Tigger two,
Matthews letter--St. Petersb. Oct.30. 05.
Dear Mary
From the church books in St Pet. I can only gather that Grandfather, Matthew Abbey,was 66 when he died and was buried at Volvoro, his wife's name was Mercy, that is father's mother.
Enquiring after father's line, that was how we got to know that formerly the name was Abba. Father said write to Hull. If you go to Hull ask in the parishes of Beverly, Hambleton or Selby.
Grandfather Matthew was born in 1785, father was born nr. Hull 16 6 1819.
Another letter to follow. Fel
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Hi Tigger two,
Rest of the letter -- 1819 June 16th, son of M.Abbey (born in 1785) and Macey (born Small?) so we think. SHOULD BE MERCY SMART
M. Abbey son of William must have been christened in the parish church.
I have another of his letters which I will deal with latter.
Regards
Fel
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Hi Everyone
Just a few bits of information stimulated by some of the recent posts.
My ggrandmother's (Lily) family had a property in a place called Kukkola which was on the Finnish side of the Russian border, so they were able to stay there after the Revolution. Eleanor Abbey lived with them and was buried there after her death in 1916. Kukkola is now known as Repino after the Russian painter Repin and is now in Russia.
I was very interested in Fel's mention of the church books in St P. I haven't got much in the way of documentation but it is all from the British and American Chapel in St P which ,I think, was Nonconformist. There was also another church, known as the English Church , which ,I think ,was Anglican.
Just a little bit about Elsie Abbey - after escaping from Russia , she worked in Paris as companion to the wife of a Russian emigre and was interned during the war. She returned to the UK afterwards and I knew her before she died in the fifties.
Hope this is of some interest.
Regards
Mocca
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Hello,
I have come across Nelly, who had a daughter Irene, they lived in Toulon, France. in 1948.
Also is anyone connected to Tania?
regards, Fel.
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Mocca:
Did the Elsie Abbey you knew, live in Pedmore, near Stourbridge? If so, this is my grandfather's younger sister and she never married but spent most of her life as a companion to various people. If I remember rightly, she either died late 50's or early 60's. My grandfather's youngest sister, and the beauty of the family, was called Lucy and she married a Mr. Welch from the Baltimore area and emigrated to the US in the early 20's.
Tiggertwo
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Fel:
I think the Abba may have been a misspelling as all the records I can find in Selby are for Abbey.
Tiggertwo
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Tigger two,
Not only is Abba mentioned in Matthew's letter, it appears in some notes of my Aunt Evelyn
Also it is on the FamilySearch.org website. I have found this site very helpful,giving leads or confirming info.
Keeping the name Abba would have been a problem, as they would have wanted to appear to be English, casting off their French origins.
Fel
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Hi Fel:
I can understand that but it would have had to be anglicised a long way back and several generations before any of them went to Russia as the Selby records I've found so far, are all Abbey.
It is interesting though, because there was an American environmentalist/writer called Edward Abbey, who in every picture I have seen of him, is a dead ringer for my brother but I have never been able to trace any connections to this family and finally discounted it, because when they first went to the US, their surname was Abba and not Abbey. Makes me wonder!
Tiggertwo
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Hi Tiggertwo,
Perhaps Matthew did the change of name. He appears as Abbey in his marriage to Mercy, but was shown as Abba, in the lines I have been checking, at birth.
Any help?
Still looking,
Fel
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Tiggertwo,
Following up on the French connection I have a note of my Aunt's, "The Abbey family came from France during the Hugenot Massacres. The name then was Abbe (with accent). As immigants have always been resented in this country, the name was changed to sound English".
Any help or is it confusing things even more?
Regards,
Fel.
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Hello Mocca,
I have a note on my tree of Lily in Finland having Daughters, Eleanor and Alice and GDaughters Tania and Boullie, and a Tony. Do you know if this is correct?
Regards
Fel
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Hi Fel:
Send a note to Hessu - he's the Finnish branch of the family and can answer all your questions about them.
Tiggertwo
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Dear Fel and Tiggertwo
Lily had two daughters Eleanor and Alice.
Eleanor had two daughters Zoe (born 1901 and called Boullie or Bully) and Tania (born 1903). Tony (Anthony) is Tania's son.
Zoe was my grandmother.
About Abbey history.
First time I ever received information of connection to France and to huguenots was a biography of Edwin Austen Abbey to which Mocca refers in the message 24th of August 2010.
There was explained that being huguenots they found a refuge in England during the massacres.
Does anyone have any information of Alfred Abbey?
He had a son called Jim. Alfred collected stamps. He visited Finland a few times.
regards to all
hessu
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Hessu,
I have an Alfred b 1863 in Russia, I have seen a stamp collection. But he did not have a son Jim, his son was Alfred b.1900, also in Russia. I have more info on both Alfreds.
I have seen a letter signed Tania to Alfred .1863, it does not give any info for family tree. He wanted to visit Finland in 1938 but Thomas Cooke would not deal with it due to the state of things then.
Regards,
Fel
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Hi Mocca,
Sometime back you were interested in the Pollocks I think. Tom Pollock was Chairman of Accles & Pollock which later became Tube Investments. The William who was mentioned was one of his three sons. Tom Pollock lived at Park Vale House which had a cottage in its grounds, Walter Abbey b.1865 lived there with his Wife Lucy until they died. I know a little more if itis of interest!
Regards,
Fel
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Dear Fel,
Your Alfred is the one I have been looking for. He really visited Finland a couple of times during 30's second time either 1938 or as late as 1939 and yet once after the WWII late 40's. He would have liked to take my mother with him to England, but Zoe (Bully) didn't allow that.
Alfred is one of William and Eleanor (born Lee) Abbey's sons and many children. There is a photograph of Eleanor Lee in a rocking chair sent by tiggertwo in these family pages.
My mother had understood that Alfred had a colourblind son Jim ?
I come from the line of Lily (Alfred's b. 1863 sister).
Regards
hessu
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Hello Hessu,
Alfred b.1863 had six children, he was the one that was colourblind.
Eleanor b.1896 in Russia d.1963 m. P Lawson
Gertrude Lee b.1899 ijn Russia d.1980 m. E Billington, they went to Canada
Alfred b.1900 in Russia d.1947 m. Mary (Mollie) Rowley
Arthur twin d. at 10 months
Evelyn b.1901 in Bolton UK d.1983 m. James (Jim) Atkinson
More info if you need it. If you let me have your email I could send letter of Tania's to
to Alfred b.1863 dated 20. 2. 1950.
Regards. Fel.
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Hello everyone,
Have been away on holiday so just catching up.
Tiggertwo- I'm sure we are talking about the same Elsie Abbey - when I knew her she was in Sutton Coldfield but given that she worked as a companion she probably moved around quite a bit.
To return to Edwin Austen Abbey and the Huguenots - family legend has it that he belongs to the family. He was an American by birth but came over to this country at the end of the 19th century . He must have been quite well known at the time because he was asked to paint the Coronation picture of
Edward VII and there is a plaque to him in St Paul's Cathedral.
Apparently , there was a belief in his family that their name was originally Abbaye and they were descended from Huguenot
emigres who came to America via Yorkshire. His great great grandfather was Samuel Abbey born in US in 1755 or 60. Has anyone managed to get the family tree back as far as that?
Does anyone know anything about a lady known as 'Baby' who was living in the San Francisco area in the 1970's ?
Regards
Mocca
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Just going out so very quick reply.
Hessu, is colour blindness genetic? Both my father and his brother were colour blind as well.
Mocca, if you look at the formal family portrait of my family in Russia, Elsie is the rather plain dark haired older girl. Haven't got the photo handy so can't pinpoint her but if I remember rightly she is on the left of the pic. Does she bear any resemblance to the Elsie you knew?
It's a glorious sunny day here at last. Hope you're all having a good day too.
Tiggertoo
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Hello Tiggertwo,
Besides Alfred b.1863, one of his great nephews was partly colour blind. Alfred's was total.
Reading back to 4. 2. 10. You mentioned Sutton Coldfield and Aston, I knew these areas well, and am curious!
Regards,
Fel
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Hi Fel:
I believe all the male members of my family e.g. my grandfather and his brothers, were sent from Russia to school at Bishop Vesey in Sutton Coldfield. My great aunt Elsie and my great uncle Alfred (also possibly a great uncle Arthur), also lived in that area after they returned from Russia, as did Mary nee Pollock (their aunt). I think the females were all privately tutored in Russia.
My grand parents (George Abbey & Eliza Helen Scotson) were married in Aston in 1913 and then returned to Russia, where my father was born in 1917.
Any help.
Tiggertoo
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Hi Mocca:
Just had a look at the photo again. My great aunt Elsie is the girl third from the left with the big white bow in her hair and my grandfather, George is standing on her immediate right.
Tiggertoo
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To all on this link:
Has anyone started family tree that we could each add our personal links to? Has anyone got any old family photos they could publish on this site?
Tiggertoo
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Hello All,
Has anyone any info on Matthew b.1785 Twin brother Mark? I believe he married Eleanor Pearson 15. 12 1808.
Regards,
Fel.
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Hi Fel
re Mark
yes, I have him married to Eleanor Pearson 1808 Hemingbrough
seven children baptised Hemingbrough
Mark buried 1 Mar 1837 Hemingbrough
Eleanor buried 30 Aug 1827 Hemingbrough
Mark married a second time - Rosamond Briggs 31 Dec 1831 Hemingbrough they had no children. she was buried 21 Feb 1837 Hemingbrough
Myfi
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Hello Everyone
I think I remember being told that there were two other brothers called Luke and John in this family. Does anyone know whether this is so and also whether there are other brothers and sisters? Was Matthew the only one who went to Russia or did others go too.
Regards
Mocca
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Hello Mocca,
My notes show Matthew had five brothers and three sisters.
Thomas b.1777, Ann b.1778 Mary and Joseph (twins) b.1780,
Sarah b.1783 d. 1784, Luke b.1787 and Robert b.1788.
No mention of a John. I do not know if any went to Russia.
Any help?
Regards ,
Fel.
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Hello,
I see you have Eliza Helen Scotson mentioned amongst the posts - she was my grandmother Antoinette`s sister.I know she married a George Abbey but that is about all I know, so any information about her life would be very acceptable.
Thank you.
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Hi Fel
Thanks for that information - it certainly gives us a bit more background to Matthew. In a previous post ,Tiggertwo mentions aWilliam Abbey born 1733 at Wistow, nr Selby. Do you think that this is Matthew and Mark's father, although she says that he had thirteen children ?
Kind regards
Mocca
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Hi Mocca,
I have Matthew's father as William b.1752,m.1776 to Hannah Wright b. 1755, this William's father as William b.1709 d.1793, m. Elizabeth Miller b.1715 d.1790.
I don't think the William b. 1733 fits in the age group, as I think William's b.1709 first child was Robert b.1745
Kind regards,
Fel
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baptism: Brayton prs luckily for us the Dade register was used :D
' Matthew (twin of Mark(sixth & seventh sons)) Abba. Poor. Twin children of William Abba of Hambleton in this parish, labourer- son of William Abba of Selby labourer by Elizabeth his wife, daughter of Miller of Sherburne labourer. Mother: Mary daughter of John Hawcroft of Hambleton in this parish labourer by Mary his wife, daughter of Thomas Benson of Cowood labourer, Born January 20th 1785, baptised January 22nd.'
Elizabeth (Matthew & Mark's grandmother) I believe her surname was Milner, not Miller.
Thomas Benson of Cowood think it was spelt wrong should be of CAwood.
The Pontefract & District Family History Society have published booklets for Brayton St. Wilfred parish registers.....well worth investing in ;D
myfi
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To all the Abbey Searchers,
I wish you a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Things seem to have been yery quite. I have been too busy with my woodwdork at craft fairs. Now those are finished I want to get into searching
once more.
Regards,
Fel
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I am a little late in replying to all these posts but what I have found is great. At this point I will add that Matthew Abbey was the brother of my husbands gggg grand father Thomas. I had heard there was a Russian connection but didn't think it applied to our branch of the Abbey family. It seems that most dates etc have been covered by someone or other but if I can come up with something new I will.
jansie
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Hello all.
It really has been quiet around Abbey topic. This is great news. I am still in the process of sorting out old photographs. Many greetings from Finland.
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Hi MSBB,
I think William Abbey found on the farm of William Stickney must be the son of Matthew. There is an google ebook entitled Farmers magazine 1841. In it is an article about the farm of Mr Stickney, which seems to suggest he was a model farmer and interested in improvement. A piece of Russian machinery is mentioned which ties in withe the Russian connection. Maybe Matthew worked for him too? Have you seem a web site by Dennis Oshea who has posted all the Abbey family from 1680. You may find your John there.
Jansie
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My grand mother told me that Abbeys were on agricultural branch in Russia. She ment that they knew some new or at least better methods than russians those days how to cultivate land. Their task was model farming or teaching new methods. I wonder if there were advertisements in newspapers or farmer's magazines or how else did people get the idea to leave England for Russia. Does anyone of you know?
Kind regards
hessu
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I have just found a reference to Ploughman Matthew Abbey working for William Stickney at Rugemont Burstwick, winning three guineas in a Ploughing competion. this is proof that he worked for Stickney as did his son William. they must have been sent to Russia because of their expertise in Ploughing difficult land.
the reference was in the newspaper the Hull Packet dated 1809
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I'd like to join in this fascinating chat! I've been researching the Abbey family and the Russian connection. My research has mostly been based on Alexander Walter Abbey, a mining engineer who was murdered in Spain. There seem to be some common links with what you have all found, but here's my contribution, for comment etc. By the way, I looked on the OShea site, but found it very complicated.
Here's a bit more on the family.
I found a line back to a Mary Abbey, born in 1801. I can't find a spouse for her, but she had six children: Thomas 1828; John Henry 1830; Elizabeth 1834; Mary Ann 1836; Robert 1838 and Francis 1841.
All were born in Lockwood, Yorkshire with the exception of John Henry who was born in Selby.
He went to Russia!
He married - I'm not sure who - and had two sons: John William 1850 and Walter 1852. Both were born in Russia.
John William: again, I'm not sure who he married, but his five children were born in Russia. George 1888; Edward 1889; Elsie Emma 1890; Lucy Alice ?; Alexander Walter 1892 and Alfred Henry 1895.
It's interesting that they were all back in England in 1911.
More details on George:
George and Elizabeth went to Rhodesia and then to South Africa. They had two sons, Edward John Abbey 1917-1993 and Desmond 1920-1955.
Edward John had two children who are still living -Lynne Abbey and John Scotson Abbey, but I haven't any more on them at the moment.
Edward is a bit of a mystery (another one). He died in Brooklyn, New York. I can't find him anywhere, with the correct roots. The only Edward that keeps cropping up is a ship's steward sailing between Europe, South and North America and a variety of ships over the years.
Elsie Emma died in Sutton Coldfield in 1961, Lucy Alice in Maryland in 1976 and Alfred Henry in Exeter in 1971.
I hope that this will be interesting!
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Hi Adrian John
You've got my family tree right down to my brother and me. Where did you get your info eg birth date for my fathers brother, Desmond Abbey. Some of it is not totally correct and i will reply to your personal message.
The Edward you refer to is I think, my grandfathers brother. He was apparently in the merchant navy. Family rumour puts Elsie in France during the 1st world war and one of the boys being killed in Spain during the Spanish Civil War (perhaps this was Alexander Walter). It seems that engineering was in the Abbey blood.
If you look back through this chat site you will see a picture I posted of John William Abbey and his family in Russia.
Hessu is a mine of infomation as his family used to visit the UK relatives from time to time.
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To Tiggertwo,
Your story about the first mechanical plough is probably correct. I found Matthew winning 1 guinea in a ploughing match. He was the ploughman for William Stickney of Ridgmont Burstwick and probably went to Russia on his behalf. The paper was the Hull Packet of 1819 not 1809 as I said before.
Jansie
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Hi Seamike:
On page 2 of this topic you wrote about Vasiliy Matveev Abbey and the Johnson Reaping Machine.
Two queries: does Vasiliy translate as Basil and secondly do you think that perhaps he was just trying to sell the machine to two farmers from that area, rather than living there himself?
Things to be on the move again.
Best wishes.
tiggertwo
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Hi Tiggertwo,
yes, Basil is Vasiliy in Russian.
he, Vasiliy Abbey was one of the "two farmers of Sapozhkovskiy region of Ryazan province" who reviewed the Johnston reaping machine. So, he had an estate in Sapozhkovskiy region.
I have contacted historians from this area (Sapozhkovskiy region) 4 years ago, when you started this search, but they had nothing at that time on Abbey. Will send them remainder again.
Cheers
Mike
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Thanks seamike. Read a very interesting article about Count Pashkov, which prompted the question. it was a University if Pretoria thesis. If you'd like to read it, let me know and I'll give you the reference.
Question for fel and myfi, which line are you both descended from?
tiggertwo
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Hi Tigger Two,
Matthew b.1785, William b.1819, Alfred Shepherd b. 1863 and Alfred Algernon b.1900.
Hope this helps and that you are well.
Regards Fel.
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Hi Fel:
My line is the same Matthew and William. Where do you fit into it?
Regards.
Lynne aka tiggertwo
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Hi TiggerTwo,
Alfred Shepherd Abbey b.1863 in Russia, had brothers-Matthew Lee. John, Walter,William and two sisters- Lily and Mary Elizabeth
Alfred Shepherd had a son Alfred Algernon b.1900 in Russia,whose twin brother Arthur died at 10 months. and four daughters-Margaret, Eleanor, Gertrude Lee and Evelyn.
Alfred Algernon, who married Mary Elizabeth Rowley in 1929, Lived in Wylde Green, had a daughter Mary Elizabeth, and two sons, Alfred Rowley and Robert William who has lived in Canada for some years. Does this answer? Can I help further!! Regards Fel.
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Perfect, thanks Fel. My GGGrandfather was Alfred Shepherds brother, John William.
I note you have Matthew Lee but I have him as Matthew Edwin and Lily Louisa. Did Walter or Wiliiam have second names? It does make searching a lot easier.
Do you have any info on their Grandparents. I know their parentage.
Still not sure where exactly you fit in.
Lynne
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Hi Tiggertwo,
I have Matthew Lee m. Margaret ? She was a Scot, and they had a son Edwin.
Don't know second names.
Matthew, John, Walter etc Grandfather was Matthew b. 1785 m. Mercy Smart also b. 1785 in1806. He d.1851 in Volvovo Russia, of course. He was a farmer in Selby. Sometime in the 1840s he was asked by the Tsar (connection not known) to advise on the irrigation of St. Petersburg. Took his son William with him. William m. Eleanor Lee in 1851 in St. P.
Regards, Fel (Rowley)!
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Hi I am working on the family tree.
Does anyone know how many children William Abbey and Mary Hawecroft had? In an old family tree composed by memory without official record, there is listed 8. William *1790, John, Duke (must be Marmaduke), Bartholomew, John 2nd time,Luke, Mark, Matthew who must be born 3 Apr 1785.
regards
hessu
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Hi Hessu,
On my records I have ten offspring of William (b.1752). Thomas 1777, Ann 1778, Mary and Joseph 1780, Sarah 1783 d.1784, Matthew and Mark 1785, Luke 1787 and Robert 1788. I have a note that they were all born at Hambleton. Any help?
Rgards, Fel.
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Hi Fel and Hessu:
Have you two got the same family line. It seems too different.
Regards.
tiggertwo
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Hi Tiggertwo
I do feel that we are on the same line. We are agreeing in the main line, and cannot quite get all the info. According to a letter of Mattew(b.1850 I think), His father William (1819), had eight uncles, I have only been able to trace six. But Hessu has found eight. The letter gives the names,"Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, Wuilliam, Joseph, Duke and Tom. but they were not born in rhyme, only it was easier to remember their names this way" I think there was also three Aunts,Ann, Mary(twin of Joseph), and Sarah.
Does this help just add to the confusion!
Kind regards, Fel.
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Hi all
I have just picked up on this thread and I’m sorry to report that my sister Gill aka Myfi passed away in January 2012 ....
If no one has any objections I would like to take up where Gill left off ......
In answer to Tigger Two’s question (reply 129) Gill and I are descend from Mercy Abbey bc 1811 who married William Harness 28.11.1831 and had 11 children .....
My Abbey tree goes something like this
William Abbey bc 1709 buried 21.12.1793 aged 84 Selby married Elizabeth Milner buried 15.4.1790 Selby, she was the daughter of William Milner
Their children were
William cr 21.4.1744 Wistow, buried 15.10.1816 Selby married Mary Hawcroft 28.3.1769 at Brayton – they had 13 children – see below
Mary cr 1.8.1745 Wistow, buried 16.8.1748 Wistow
Robert cr 5.4.1747 Wistow, buried 11.11.1785 Selby married Elizabeth Smith 19.9.1770 Selby – they had 5 children
John cr 28.5.1749 Selby, buried 25.10.1749 Selby
Ann cr 16.11.1750 Selby – no further info
John cr 26.11.1752 Selby, buried 30.7.1785 Selby married Elizabeth Stobbard 22.4.1777 Selby
Charles cr 6.4.1755 Selby – no further info
Duke cr 15.1.1758 Selby, buried 16.7.1791 – married Sarah Russell 26.11.1782 Selby – they had 4 daughters
Children of William and Mary nee Hawcroft (they had 2 sets of twins) she was the daughter of John Hawcroft
William cr 22.3.1770 Brayton – no other info
John cr 4.4.1771 Brayton married Jane Lawson 6.9.1796 Weldrake – 4 children
Duke cr 29.3.1773 Brayton married Mary Campey 25.12.1797 Brayton – 6 children
Elizabeth cr 6.12.1775 Brayton married John James 12.1.1805 Brayton – 4 children
Thomas born 3.8.1777, cr 6.8.1777 Brayton married Rebecca Haghe 25.1.1802 Escrick – 8 children
Ann born 20.12.1778, cr 30.12.1778 Brayton married William Freek 1.1.1805 Brayton – 8 children – after her husband died she emigrated to USA with her brother Luke
Mary (twin) born 26.9.1780, cr 26.9.1780 Brayton, died 1869 aged 90 married John Howcroft 28.3.1809 Brayton – 9 children
Joseph (twin) born 26.9.1780, cr 26.9.1780 Brayton, buried 17.1.1814 Selby age 33 – married twice and had a total of 5 children
Sarah born 30.1.1783, cr 6.2.1783, died 23.11.1784 Brayton – age 1 from small pox
Matthew (twin) 20.1.1785, cr 22.1.1785, died 1851 Russia age 66, he married Mercy Smart 8.3.1806 Holme on Spalding Moor – they had 6 children – see below – after Mercy died 16.2.1839 St Petersburg he then married Susannah Turnbull 5.3.1842 St Petersburg
Mark (twin) born 20.1.1785, cr 22.1.1785 Brayton, buried 1.3.1837 Hemmingbrough aged 52 – married twice 7 children by his first wife
Luke born 2.3.1787, cr 6.3.1787 Brayton married 3 times and had numerous children – emigrated to the US between 1819 and 1825
Robert born 29.9.1788, cr 29.9.1788, buried 1790 Brayton
Children of Matthew and Mercy nee Smart
Elizabeth born 16.8.1806, cr 14.9.1806 Holme on Spalding Moor – no further info
Mary born 25.2.1809, cr 22.3.1809 Holme on Spalding Moor died 1885 in Stockbridge, Mass, USA, married Francis Stephenson
Mercy cr 26.3.1814 Skeckling with Burstwick, died 18.3.1859 age 48 Patrington, married William Harness 28.11.1831 Burton Pidsea – they had 11 children – this is my line
George cr 25.12.1816 Skeckling with Burstwick – no further info
William born 16.6.1819, cr 15.8.1819 Skeckling with Burstwick, died Russia? married Eleanor Lee 26.9.1851 St Petersburg, Russia – I can only find 2 children for them Matthew and Mary
Hannah cr 6.6.1822 Skeckling with Burstwick died 5.12.1846, buried 7.12.1846 Burstwick
Children of William HARNESS and Mercy nee Abbey
Elizabeth cr 2.12.1833 Burton Pidsea
George cr 8.2.1835, buried 27.2.1835 Skeckling with Burstwick
George Matthew cr 1.12.1836 Skeckling with Burstwick – this is my line
William cr 30.6.1839 Skeckling with Burstwick
Johnson cr 27.6.1841 Skeckling with Burstwick
Anna Maria cr 15.9.1843 Skeckling with Burstwick
Mary cr 14.12.1845 Ridgemont with Burstwick
John cr 23.12.1847 Skeckling with Burstwick
Mercy Ann bc 1849 Skeckling with Burstwick
Thomas born 3.6.1851 Skeckling with Burstwick
Henry bc 1853 Patrington
I hope I haven't bored you all to tears with all this, I look forward to hearing from you
Regards
sre
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Welcome sre,
I found your info most interesting and useful, that was quite a task you took on!
Many thanks
Fel
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Hi sre,
Further to your "tree":- William and Eleanor Lee had the following children.
Matthew Lee, John, Lily b.1854, William b.1855, Mary Elizabeth b.1861, Alfred Shepherd b. 1863, Walter b. 1865.
Alfred married Margaret Hannah Ritson b. 1861. They are my Grandparents.
Regards
Fel.
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Hi Fel
Many thanks for your reply ..... for the most part everything has been verified by the University of York's Borthwick Institute and parish registers ......
Thank you for listing the children of William and Eleanor nee Lee (I only had a couple).... were they all born Russia and do you have actual dates for them?
I've been trying to find out just when Matthew and Mercy went to Russia and have come across a few snippets, if you are interested please let me know ......
Regards
sre
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Hi all. I am new here and not quite sure where to start. I have read everything and would like to offer my own contribution. I am a Lawson and a direct descendant of William Abbay and Eleanor Lee who were my great-great-grandparents on my father's side. The information that I have seems to be very close to that of Fel who I am sure is a close relative as he has the same letters that I have, written by Mathew Abbey to Mary, and also a document which was written by Evelyn Abbey and which we refer to as "The Abbey Saga". Consequently I'm not sure if I will be able to contribute anything new to the discussion but I am very happy to participate and offer what information I have. Above all it is great to feel that I may be getting in touch with some living relatives!
I have an online family tree at MyHeritage.com at the following address:
http://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-183214822/lawson-family
It is public except for living relatives who remain private.
I'm afraid I don't have much in the form of actual documents.
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Fel, I have received your private message but can't reply until I have posted three times (strange rule). So here is my second post just to let you know how happy I am to be in touch! Yes I am who you guessed I am!
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I have posted two lovely photos of Alfred Shepherd Abbey and Margaret Hannah Ritson on my family tree at the link I posted earlier for anyone who may be interested.
That makes three posts!
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My cousin is supplying me with lots of Abbey photos. I'm gradually getting them all up onto my Family Tree site if anyone is interested! ;D
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Hello tiggertwo :)
I haven't come across the names you mention but as I haven't been able to find anything much on a couple of Matthew's sons it's possible that your family may be descended from one of them.
Matthew's sons:
George b.1816 Burstwick, married Alice Jordan in 1838 Patrington, then disappears
William b.1819 Burstwick, married Eleanor Lee in 1851 St. Petersburg, one child found -Mary b.1861 St. Petersburg
A great nephew of my Matthew also seems to have gone to Russia -
George Fairbank Abbey b.1841 Burstwick married Sophie Ehren 1862 St. Petersburg
any of these names mean anything to you?
Myfi
I can confirm William and Eleanor Lee (though they had more children) But can't find anything on this marriage between George and Alice. Are there sources that I can access?
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Hello Mocca,
Thanks for your responce. William b.1855 was educated in St.P. He took over managing the Estates of a Russian Duke, from William b.1819. He married and had a daughter May Abbey (Mabel Gertrude Irene) b.1900. At one time they lived in Vetoshkino. She was in Swizterland about 1912.
William b.1855 may have married a second time to a Russian, Tanta Anna
William b.1855 went to S.Africa, May had a daughter there, Peggy who married T. Mclean.
Was your Ggrandmother Lily the one who went Finland?
Regards, Fel
Any chance of some reliable sources for this info? I looked into Mabel Gertrude Irene and she seems to be the daughter of a William Abbey from 1879 with comletely different parents... Admittedly this is not official documented source material but it did put me on alert.
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Hi Mocca,
I have Matthew's father as William b.1752,m.1776 to Hannah Wright b. 1755, this William's father as William b.1709 d.1793, m. Elizabeth Miller b.1715 d.1790.
I don't think the William b. 1733 fits in the age group, as I think William's b.1709 first child was Robert b.1745
Kind regards,
Fel
I have dropped the Hannah Wright theory in favour of Mary Hawcroft. Do you think I've picked up on a false lead?
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I'd like to join in this fascinating chat! I've been researching the Abbey family and the Russian connection. My research has mostly been based on Alexander Walter Abbey, a mining engineer who was murdered in Spain. There seem to be some common links with what you have all found, but here's my contribution, for comment etc. By the way, I looked on the OShea site, but found it very complicated.
Here's a bit more on the family.
I found a line back to a Mary Abbey, born in 1801. I can't find a spouse for her, but she had six children: Thomas 1828; John Henry 1830; Elizabeth 1834; Mary Ann 1836; Robert 1838 and Francis 1841.
All were born in Lockwood, Yorkshire with the exception of John Henry who was born in Selby.
He went to Russia!
He married - I'm not sure who - and had two sons: John William 1850 and Walter 1852. Both were born in Russia.
John William: again, I'm not sure who he married, but his five children were born in Russia. George 1888; Edward 1889; Elsie Emma 1890; Lucy Alice ?; Alexander Walter 1892 and Alfred Henry 1895.
It's interesting that they were all back in England in 1911.
More details on George:
George and Elizabeth went to Rhodesia and then to South Africa. They had two sons, Edward John Abbey 1917-1993 and Desmond 1920-1955.
Edward John had two children who are still living -Lynne Abbey and John Scotson Abbey, but I haven't any more on them at the moment.
Edward is a bit of a mystery (another one). He died in Brooklyn, New York. I can't find him anywhere, with the correct roots. The only Edward that keeps cropping up is a ship's steward sailing between Europe, South and North America and a variety of ships over the years.
Elsie Emma died in Sutton Coldfield in 1961, Lucy Alice in Maryland in 1976 and Alfred Henry in Exeter in 1971.
I hope that this will be interesting!
The John William in bold, with those children, is the son of William Abbey and Eleanor Lee according to my records.
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Hi Tarquille
Welcome to Rootschat
I will try and answer your questions of yesterday
The post from Myfi which says that George Abbey married Alice Jordan 1838 Patrington – there is an entry on Freebmd for this – Jun qtr 1838 Patrington, vol 23, page 95 so this is probably what she was quoting.
Mabel Gertrude Irene – can’t comment but I have her as the daughter of William b1855 as Fel has.
I have written confirmation from the Borthwick Institute that William bc 1744 married Mary Howcroft bc 1747 on 28.3.1769 at Brayton – pm me with your email address if you would like a copy.
Cannot comment of adrianjohn’s post as my Abbey’s stayed in England when Matthew and Mercy went to Russia so I’m a bit sketchy on that side.
Regards
sre
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Hi Tarquille
I can answer a few of your questions. adrianjohn is not an Abbey but has done a fair amount of research on them because Alexander Walter Abbey crossed with a project he was doing on the war. I have had a lot of personal contact with him and it is through him that I am in contact with Carmen, Alexander's daughter. When I contact the rest iof the family with your address, I will add him too.
His notes on my family are not accurate but were amended by private email. That's one of the reasons why I it is a bad idea as people get cut out if the loop and mistakes are not corrected.
All the family were not back in England in 1911 as my father wasn't born until 1917 and I have a passenger list for a refugee ship carrying several members of the family.
Edward was in the Merchant Navy and can be traced through the Ellis Island web site going back and forth.
Tiggertwo
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Hi sre and tiggertwo!
Nice to see some movement on this board: I've been waiting patiently!
Not sure where to start really.
First: yes, sre, I'll send you my email address by pm though I agree with tiggertwo thatit is probably best to post as much as possible here so that eveyrbody can keep up to date and add their contributions to the discussion.
I've just spotted your mess with all yoru family connections on it so I'll study that first and then ask any questions later...
P.S. My starting point is William Abba (1709-1793) m. Elizabeth Miller (1715-1790). Does anyone have the dtea of their marriage?
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Just to let you all know, I am gradually restoring and reposting old photos on my family website which may (or may not) be of interest to you. Here is an example of tiggertwo's photo of my great-great grandmother, Eleanor Lee:
http://www.myheritage.com/photo-1502129_183214822_183214822/eleanor-lee
P.S. I'm not posting it here as there is a size allowance and I don't want to reduce the quality of the print which is downloadable at full size from the link I have provided.
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Back again!
Just to let you know, sre, that I have pulled in your info onto my family tree for the early Abbeys. Everything seems to tie up nicely now. Would love you to have a look and see if it all confirms some time.
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Could this be our Mabel Gertude Irene "May" Abbey?
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Me again!
I'm trying to sort out the children of William Abbey (1819) and Eleanor Lee (1825).
Some of my dates are more or less certain but birthdates for the children are giving me some problems and it appears that they are mostly undocumented (or not?)
I am sure of Alfred (my great-great grandfather - 1863) and with the help of my great aunt Evelyn's "Abbey Saga" which puts the children in order and a photo which my cousin sent me, I have come up with the approximation that can be see in the photo at this link:
http://www.myheritage.com/photo-1502154_183214822_183214822/william-abbey-family-with-names.
I am not posting the photo here as the size limits reduces the quality far too much and my notes become difficult to read!
Can anyone help out on this or confirm some specific dates?
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Regarding:
UK incoming passengers 3 May 1920 HMT "Tagus" list of Russian refugees which included these Abbey folk:
Alfred ABBEY age 56
E. ABBEY (female) not sure if it says 34 or 74 (bit blurry)
William ABBEY age 52
Mrs W. ABBEY age 54
Walter ABBEY age 52
Anna ABBEY age 55
Following up on Fel's comments:
(If the Walter and William mentioned here are brothers and the same age then they are presumably twins. This was common in the Abbey line but Evelyn doesn't mention it in her notes. In the photo that I mentioned earlier they don't look the same age although Walter, I believe, is standing on the first stair and William isn't.)
Alfred Shepherd Abbey (1863) ~ he would have been about 56/57 in 1920
Eleanor "Ellie" Abbey (1896) (Alfred's daughter) ~ she would have been about 24 (perhaps the 7 (74) is in fact a 2)
William Abbey (c.1867 my estimate based on the photo) ~ he would have been about 52/53
Mrs W. Abbey (Lucy?) ~ no birthdate for her but this would make it c.1866
Walter Abbey (c.1865 my estimate based on the photo) ~ he would have been about 54/55 and not 52 but my estimate could easily be wrong).
Anna Abbey (Tanta Anna?) ~ William's second (Russian) wife?
Any comments?
P.S. sre, could I have a copy of that document?
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Greetings all,
Does anyone know where I would obtain a complete copy of the Tagus passenger list quoted below?
I am also looking for the passenger list of the Dongola which arrived in Britain on 22 May 1920, also carrying British refugees from Russia.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
Hi Tiggertwo ;D
Just checked that message I sent you-
It was a reference to UK incoming passengers 3 May 1920 HMT "Tagus" list of Russian refugees which included these Abbey folk:
Alfred ABBEY age 56
E. ABBEY (female) not sure if it says 34 or 74 (bit blurry)
William ABBEY age 52
Mrs W. ABBEY age 54
Walter ABBEY age 52
Anna ABBEY age 55
Myfi
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Hi Mike
Many thanks for that.
He is possibly the chap I've found on a passenger list as a Refugee from Russia arriving in the UK in 1920. (William ABBEY age 52)
Myfi
Hi Myfi and others,
I just popped in ....sorry not about the Abbey-family .....but I`m desperate try to find passenger-list of refugees from Finland/Russia in this period.
Where have you found this?
Many thanks,
Elcas
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Hi Skoblin and elcas
The information you are looking for can be found at Ancestry.co.uk which is a subscription site .... sorry I can't help further as I not currently a member .... :(
Regards
sre
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Give me the names and approx. dates and I'll check the passenger lists for you.
Will need a couple of days as I am really busy at the moment.
Tiggertwo
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Nice to see everyone is still around!
Any news? New photos?
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Can someone provide some sort of direction as to where and how to find this information on Ancestry?
many thanks
Hi Skoblin and elcas
The information you are looking for can be found at Ancestry.co.uk which is a subscription site .... sorry I can't help further as I not currently a member .... :(
Regards
sre
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Sre thanks,
I tried this before without success.
My family members Hide and Treymann lived for generations in St.-Petersburg being British subject.
They left Russia in 1918 after a dead warning to Terioky leaving everything behind.
They stayed there till 1920 hoping for better times but then decided to leave for England.
They came by the Ariadne to Hull.
I regret very much that sofar no genealogical site play specific attention to British citizens in Russia.
You have to find information like in this case the Abbay/Abbey family, while in a certain period several thousands English people lived/ worked etc. in Russia.
I would be usefull in my opinion to bring as much as possible information about these English roots together so we can learn from the experiences of others.
Apologize for this heartfull cry
Elcas
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A very interesting thread.
You are all doing well.
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This Russia connection is getting quite interesting.
An ancestor of mine Alice Middleton was born in Russia (probably St Petersburg) in 1824 (September 22). Her parents were William Middleton (born in Burton Pidsea in 1794) and Mary (born in Roos in 1792 approx).
Alice had a sister Jane Middleton who was also born in Russia - on February 24 1826. Unfortunately, she died shortly afterwards on June 10 1826.
Alice Middleton married Thomas Mason at the parish church, Skekling cum Burstwick on April 5, 1845. Their daughter Emily was born at Burstwick in 1846, but in the 1851 census Emily Mason's place of birth was listed as Ridgemont, which is in Burstwick.
Thomas Mason's job was listed as farm bailiff in the 1861 census.
I am descended from Alice Middleton via Betsy Mason, Emily's sister. I was born in Hull in East Yorkshire.
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There is a short biography of Alexander Walter Abbey here
https://www.nmrs.org.uk/resources/obituaries-of-graduates/alexander-walter-abbey/ (https://www.nmrs.org.uk/resources/obituaries-of-graduates/alexander-walter-abbey/)
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Oops sorry, that should be
https://www.nmrs.org.uk/resources/obituaries-of-graduates/a/alexander-walter-abbey/ (https://www.nmrs.org.uk/resources/obituaries-of-graduates/a/alexander-walter-abbey/)
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Is anybody still reading this thread?
I have been away for a few years and have just taken up my family research again and would love to get back in touch with anyone still interested in this family line.
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It would seem that Thomas Pollock married Mary Elizabeth Abbey in St. Petersburg.
Can anyone confirm that?
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Record with image on Ancestry:
UK, Foreign and Overseas Registers of British Subjects, 1628-1969
Name: Thomas Pollock
Marriage Date: 5 May 1888
Marriage Place: St Petersburg, Russia
Event Type: Marriage
Spouse: Mary Elizabeth Abbey
Piece Description: RG 33: Foreign Registers and Returns, 1627-1960
Image indicates "Thomas Pollock Jun". Witnesses: Frank N. White, Lillie Harper.
Married in the British American Chapel. Both of Protestant faith.
Thomas - "of Nizhny Novgorod" and Mary Elizabeth - "of St Petersburg".
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Wow! Thank you for that! You wouldn't by any chance be able to help me with another marriage date:
William Goffe (b.1856) And Louisa (Lily) Abbey (b.1854). In Russia too.
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Sorry, I searched both bride and groom names. No marriage record found in that Ancestry collection.
Looking for anyone else?
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Is this their daughter? Image indicates mother's maiden name is Abbey. Baptism place: Gomel.
Lilly Alice Goffe b 21 Dec 1884 bp 23 Mar 1886 Russia
Father: William Goffe
Mother: Louisa Goffe
RG 33: Foreign Registers and Returns, 1627-1960
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Other Russian marriage records from this Ancestry collection include:
1851 - William Abbey to Eleanor Lee (6 witness names, inc Mathew Abbey and Susan Abbey).
1862 - George Hairbank Abbey to Sophie Ehren
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Thanks for that, again.
Yes, Lilly Alice Goffe is their second daughter. Their first one was born 10 years earlier, I believe: Eleanore Emma Goffe.
William Abbey and Eleanor Lee is my direct line.
George Fairbanks (not Hairbank) Abbey is also in my line, although not direct.
Thanks for your help. I'll post here again if I get stuck!
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Hillhurst, are these records that can be searched with a paid Ancestry.com subscription? I have my tree there, but am only a "registered guest" and not a paid member. I'm currently thinking of joining as a paid member in order to have access to these resources.
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Hillhurst, I tell you what would be really useful if the information is available, the birth dates of the seven children of William Abbey (1819) and Eleanor Lee (1825) - married in St. Petersburg, Russia on 26 Sep 1851. Louisa, William, Mathew Lee, Mary Elizabeth, John William, Alfred Shepherd, Walter George.
I have dates for all of them but they do not seem to coincide with a family photo that I have, and I feel one or two may actually be wrong.
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Yes, the above records are from Ancestry. So far, I just have this birth/baptism record:
Russian births& baptisms 1755-1917
Mary Elizabeth Abbey daughter of William Abbey & Eleanor Lee
b 15 июн 1861 (15 Jun 1861)
bp 22 ноя 1861 (22 Nov 1861) British Chaplaincy, St Petersburg, Russia
Do you use (free) Family Search? There are Russian record collections on FS, but some are in Russian. These are the relevant FHL Film Numbers on FS: 563012, 574494, 576998FS.
EXAMPLE: The record above has been translated into English. The same record is on FS below, but in Russian.
Russia Births and Baptisms, 1755-1917 (Family Search)
Мэри Элизабет Эбби
bap 22 Nov 1861 санкт-петербург, Российская империя
Christening Place (Original) British Chaplaincy, St Petersburg, Russia
b 15 Jun 1861
Father's Name Уиллам Эбби
Mother's Name Элянор Ли
TIP: Search 563012, 574494, 576998FS using the Abbey surname in Russian (Эбби) and/or the parents names (Уиллам Эбби, Элянор Ли). Perhaps the other children can be found in these FS records.
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This date for Mary E Abbey is the one that I have, which is a good sign. It looks as if it might be an idea for me to subscribe to Ancestry.com, even for a limited period, in order to gain access to these translated records.
Thanks for the help!
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I don't see any other of your requested Abbey birth/baptisms (in Russia) on Ancestry. So might be a waste of a sub renewal.
Check FS for the other Abbey birth records. It's free to search. Ancestry have the FS records that have been translated so far.
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How would you say Family Search compares to Ancestry?
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How would you say Family Search compares to Ancestry?
Can I just ask: Have you used Family Search at all? It's free to register and view (most) records, unlike the pay sites, such as Ancestry and Find My Past.
This link will give you an overview of the differences: https://www.familytreemagazine.com/websites/genealogy-website-comparison/
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Actually, I've just started moving on Family Search. I'll check out the link tomorrow (it's late now). Thanks for the pointers!
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@Hillhurst
I've had a look at that link and am still trying to digest all the info there. It's actually quite a difficult decision! I do like the use interface for the online family tree a t Ancestry, I must admit, and I think I might start there for a few months and see how I get on. However, Family Search remains a valuable resource as well.
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Just found in one Russian book published in 1893 that at this time M.V. Abbey was an assistant to the estate manager at the estate of Count Pashkov, village Vitoshkino, Sergachskiy uyezd (district), Nizhnegorodskaya guberniya (province). Coordinates N 55° 17' E 45° 03'
Mike
Could this be Mathew Lee Abbey (1856-1916) who died in Russia?
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My great aunt Evelyn Atkinson (nee Abbey) mentions seeing a family photograph of William Abbey (b.1819) and his wife Eleanor Lee in which she says the whole family is present except for the eldest daughter, Louisa (Lilly) who was already married and away from home. She says the photo was taken in about 1873. I think it's the photo that I have attached here, but I'm not sure that the ages tie in. What do you think?
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Hi Tiggertwo ;D
Just checked that message I sent you-
It was a reference to UK incoming passengers 3 May 1920 HMT "Tagus" list of Russian refugees which included these Abbey folk:
Alfred ABBEY age 56
E. ABBEY (female) not sure if it says 34 or 74 (bit blurry)
William ABBEY age 52
Mrs W. ABBEY age 54
Walter ABBEY age 52
Anna ABBEY age 55
Myfi
I think you'll find it was April 3rd 1920 and the passengers, I believe, were the following:
Alfred Shepherd Abbey (1863-1950) - age 56
Eleanor Abbey (1896-1963) - age 24
William Abbey (1867-?) - age 53
Anna Abbey (William's second wife) - age unknown
Walter George Abbey (1865-1953) - age 55
Matilda Louisa Straus (Walter's wife) - (1867-?) - age 53
Ages do not correspond precisely to what is written on the immigration form, but in those circumstances it is not altogether surprising. Alfred and Eleanor are certain, and the others seem to fit the circumstances.
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Is anyone here still in touch with Mifi! outside this chat? Her inbox here is full, and I can't message her and would like to get in touch with her again.
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Unfortunately, it looks as though Myfi! has died - if you click on the profile you will find the sad news.
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Hi BumbleB, that is sad news indeed. When you say "click on the profile" what do you mean exactly? I can't see how to do that.
Thanks for your help
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Go back to the first page of this thread and Myfi! is the first entry - click on the name and another screen appear with details.
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OK. Thanks a lot for your help.
Does anyone here know exactly where Mifi! fit into the Abbey family tree?
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Reply from new member Bevgar
MY ABBAY/ABBEY family went to Russia c. 1838 !!
I have read pp 1-22 with great interest and would like to join in with whoever is left. I am descended from Walter George Abbey and during lockdowns I compiled, with the help of Ancestry, a family tree of the thirteen children of William Abba (1744-1816) to present day. I am indebted to Tarquille for all the photographs that he has provided of various Abbey family members and descendants in Russia and elsewhere and also for providing the correct information so that I was able to place the children of William and Eleanor in the right order. However, I still have gaps in the information, particularly relating to Matthrew Lee Abbey, the eldest son of William and Eleanor, and their youngest son, William. Also I have no idea what my great grandfather Walter was doing in Russia because, despite seeing him many times in my early years neither he, my grandfather or my father ever provided any information. It would be good to hear from somebody.
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How can I reply to Bevgar?
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I would like information on Matthew Lee and William, eldest and youngest sons of William and Eleanor Abbey.
Bevgar
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How can I reply to Bevgar?
Assuming you mean a PM, then they have to have made 3 (I think) posts before that system is available for use.