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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: Tiana on Wednesday 30 April 08 16:35 BST (UK)
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Looking for information on Anthony Campbell born 1786 Balmaghie, married Mary Shaw
known children
Robert b. 1811
Anthony b. 1817
Mary b. 1824
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Hi Tiana
I found your other thread and have put a message on that one:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,297608.0.html
Hi
I'm linking this thread to this one:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,296609.0.html
On the other thread, Tiana, you said that Anthony and Mary had the following children:
Robert June 1811
Anthony July 17 1817
Mary Campbell March 23 1824
I have:
John - 17 July 1809
Robert - 18 June 1811
Janet - 6 Aug 1813
David - 24 Oct 1815
Anthony - 17 July 1817
James - 1 Sept 1819
Mary - 9 April 1824
all bpt Balmaghie.
Do you know who Mary Shaw's parents are? I'm thinking that Anthony's father was a John and Mary's a Robert but the naming conventions can be switched.
Gadget
Gadget
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Anthony Campbell was still alive in 1851 but Mary is dead
Whin Parks(?) , Balmaghie
857a ED 3 Page 22
Anthony Campbell, widower, 64, farmer of 26 acres, b. Balmaghie
Margaret Halliday, 15, servant, b. Maybole, Ayr
I can't find a death for him as yet, so he maybe died 1851-54.
Will keep looking.
Gadget
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Is there no records for 1851-54? I'm not sure what the Whin Parks is either. Will have to google it.:)
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From what I can tell by googling, Whin Parks is a B&B right now.
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Apart from MIs, there are no death/burial records online until 1855 :(
There might be something in the Kirk Sessions minutes or at the Ewart Library, Dumfries:
http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/dumgal/MiniWeb.aspx?id=86&menuid=980&openid=949
I'll have a look in the neighbouring parishes of Kells, Crossmichael, Kelton and Parton later. There might be something.
Gadget
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I'll have a look at the web site too. Thanks for all your information.
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Hi Tiana
Just to update you. I've checked all the MIs for the surrounding parishes but can't find anything.
One thing that might be a problem is that there was a tax on baptism, etc. entries around the time of Anthony's birth and many parents, while having their child baptised, did not pay for an entry to be made :( This happened to a few of my ancestors in the area and I've had to work things out from MIs, marriage and death records and personal documents.
Gadget
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Gadget,
Good morning, is it possible that the spelling of the name has changed? I'll keep digging today after work. Thanks
Tiana
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Hi Tiana
I did do checks on variations of both Campbell and Anthony.
Gadget
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Gadget,
I'm home from work and ready to relax doing some genealogy. What do you think of service records since both John and George were Captains? Where would I need to start with that? Tiana
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Hi Tiana
I'd start with the National Archives:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Try the catalogue or Online Documents. I'm having problems with the linkat the momentt - not sure why - so can't put up the full link :-\
Dept would be WO.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget, I'm home from work and going to the link you sent me as soon as my coffee is done. :)
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Gadget,
I have found (maybe) the parents of Anthony Campbell. Do you have access to Colmonell ? The names I have found are James Campbell and Jean Kennedy Fr60 whatever that means, county of Ayr. I am not sure how I can make sure.
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FR 60 means Frame 60 - it's the reference to the film of the record.
Have you checked the Ayrshire Anthony didn't stay in Ayrshire - any marriages, children, etc.
Colmonell is in the SW of Ayrshire:
http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-ayr.htm
bordering on to some of the Easter parishes of Wigtownshire and Minnigaff in Kirkcudbrightshire, so it's a possibility but a distance from Balmaghie :-\
Gadget
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No it was just a search in all the parishes for an Anthony Campbell with abt. the same birth date.
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I see what you mean that is a hike! More than a day thats for sure.
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They did travel around a wee bit then - especially if they were tenant farmers/ag labourers but he seems to be certain that he was born Balmaghie and I'd be more inclined to think that his baptism wasn't entered in the registers for one reason or another.
The Kirk Sessions Records might be your best chance but I'm not sure if they're available outside of the major centres in Scotland.
It might be worth looking at all the Campbell births in Balmaghie around that time to see if you can identify a similar naming sequence.
Gadget
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Your right about the Kirk records, Im going to check to see of other children they had, family names that possibly Anthony used for his children. So...close I can feel it, like I'm on to something big. LOL
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I've got one more source that might have something :)
i'll check tomorrow (later today because it's nearly 2am here).
Gadget
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It's 9 pm here, going to bed myself. Thanks Tiana
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There are a few interesting entries in Tongland, the parish south of Balmaghie:
11 July 1800 David Campbell. Father - Anthony Campbell
26 June 1802 William Campbell. Father - Anthony Campbell
This Anthony might well be the one who married Isobell Mcconnel in Twynholm (just to the west of Tongland) 5th Sept 1799.
Then we have your Robert born 5 June 1811 in Balmaghie to Antony Campbell and Mary Shaw and,previously, John in 1809, Balmaghie (see full list at the beginning of this thread)
Ant(h)ony wasn't a common Scottish first name, so this has set me wondering. A second, maybe older Anthony, could be checked for.
I've looked for earlier Campbell births in Tongland and have found an interesting family (all Cambpel) which is also mentioned in the Tongland MIs:
27 December 1771 (b. 26) Penelope - Father - William
16 May 1773 William - Father - William, Mother - Agnas Campbel
15 Feb 1776 Philadelphia (same parents as above)
26 June 1778 Agnas (same parents as above)
9 April 1781 (b. 6) William (same parents as above)
The Tongland MIs have an entry for:
Wm Campbell, esq of Queenshill. Died 27 April 1798 in his 71st year. Daughter Margaret died 12 Sept 1790 in her 27th year. Three infant children - David, William and Philadelphia.
Notes in the MI entry also refers to the Fasti Ecclesiae (a document/book containing information about Church of Scotland Ministers) - William Campbell was a Doctor of Medicine, at one time in Antigua and son of William, one time minister of Kirkinner and grandson of Robert, minister of Stoneykirk.
There is more. I'm not sure whether your Ant(h)ony is related or not but it is worth checking this family out.
Gadget
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All this is still the archives? It makes more sense. I have some records for Robert stating that his wife was from Tongland. So..yes I'm interested in learning more about this family. Let me know your links or whatever you have. Much appreciated :) Tiana
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Hi Tiana
I'm exhausting my records now. I think you might have to do some searches on SP or those Kirk Sessions Records.
What I have found is that the Anthony Campbell who married Isobell Mcconnel in Twynholm in 1799 was 'from Tongland parish'.
The MIs are my own personal collection and I don't have access to the Fasti, although I'm sure someone on here does.
What you need to check is for this Anthony and Isobell in more detail and then look at William Campbell (sometime in Antigua) d. 1798, aged 70-71. His father, William, a minister in Kirkinner and his father, Robert , a minister in Stoneykirk. Kirkinner and Stoneykirk are both Wigtownshire parishes and I don't have very many records for Wigtownshire, apart from the standard IGI SP ones.
The names are very similar to both Anthony's and Robert's sons.
In the MIs there is reference to a Patrick Campbell of Wigtown. I'll look out the MIs again later.
Gadget
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Penelope Campbell (b. 1771) married Campbell Adie who was a 'writer to the signet' ( special kind of lawyer - see, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writers_to_the_Signet ). She died in Kirkcudbright on 1st June 1842 in her 72nd year.
This looks like David Campbell, b. July 1800, son of Anthony and Isobell, in the 1841 census:
Main Street, Dalbeattie, Parish of Urr
David Campbell, 35-39, police officer
Hannah, 35-39
Isabella, 10
Marianne, 10
Robert, 7
John, 4
William, 4 months
All b. Kirkcudbrightshire
Gadget
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Yes, I'm going to try to take this as far as I can. I'll try to check those records you suggested. All born in Kirkcudbright makes a whole lot of sense. A minister in the family. Wow. Thank you again for all of your help. You have been a God send. Tiana
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Thank you Gadget & Tiana - just found yr spring exchange - most illuminating.
BUT I think Robert Campbell bpt Balmaghie 1811 [s/o Anthony Campbell & Mary Shaw] became a draper in Leeds where he died in 1870. He married a Yorkshire lass [Hannah Burras] & had 7 children - Janet b.1840, John Edward b.1842, Mary Hannah [my granny's mother] b.1843, George Anthony b.1846 and enumerated in 1861 census as 'visiting nephew' in Balmaghie [though I'm unsure which of the Campbell families he was visiting], Fanny b.1847 [who celebrated her 100th birthday], Robert Henry b.1853 & Colin b.1856; the 2 eldest boys became drapers. I'll be happy to provide more info. on this family.
I've based my link on Robt & Hannah's marriage cert. 1839, Leeds - "father Anthony, farmer"; Robt's birthplace "Scotland" in censuses; my granny's insistence on her Yorkshire-Scottish roots; the uncommonness of Anthony as a forename for Campbells; and in 1861 census the absence of George Anthony from Leeds & [I hope] his presence in Balmaghie.
I'd welcome any comments on this link and any more advice on getting further back - tho' I've not yet followed up the leads already suggested - been busy up other trees!
Also, does anyone have info re Samuel Campbell whose dau. Mary was baptised 1813 in Balmaghie. Could he have gone to Leeds as tailor/draper by 1817?
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Think I've found Anthony[b.1786 Balmaghie]'s parents - David Campbell & Janet McNish - & siblings - from DC's will 14June1816 [found via scotlandspeople]. DC d.1821 & widow ca.1825 [I think]. DC was tailor in Laurieston, as was son David who appears in censuses there. Youngest son James [b.ca1800] was successful draper in Gatehouse - was nephew [my] Robert trained by him? [R became draper in Yorkshire]. Other sons, William & Anthony [Robert's dad], were small farmers/farm servants/ag.labs [from censuses]. Also 4 daughters Margaret, Mary, Jean & Janet. I'm almost convinced on this but not yet 100%.
Hope this v. brief summary clear to you all!
Would welcome any comments on this or my previous post.
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Hi pangy
As Tiana hasn't replied (and hasn't been online since 2 Dec) , I feel that I ought to. My role was to help Tiana with her research rather than having any personal interest in the family. I'm therefore rusty on the details.
It is a long time since we investigated this family and I'm sure that your Robert is part of the family. As you can see, we concentrated on going backwards with this family and didn't investigate Robert.
I am ill at the moment but I'll re-look at the full details when I'm feeling more fit.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi again pangy
Before jumping to any conclusions, please read this message:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,297608.0.html
It will be best to keep your observations to this thread though :)
Gadget
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Hello to you all.
Thanks for the links Gadget! Hope you will feel better soon.
I have spent rather too much time recently 'up my tree in Balmaghie' and now have quite a lot of info about Anthony's offspring, siblings & parents which I will send Gadget - & anyone else who asks - offline.
re the 1861 census [earlier posting] - nephew George Anthony Campbell was staying with unmarried uncle James Campbell who had obviously taken over his father's farm at Whimpark.
I would very much appreciate Gadget's expert advice on a number of points, but no hurry:
Do you know if IGI & OPR [on scotlandspeople] are the only available sources of parish records? - those seem a bit patchy for baptisms & marriages, & absent for pre-1855 deaths.
Do you have any of the Balmaghie family on your MIs? Death cert. of David Campbell [1782-1857] says he was buried in 'churchyard' - might there be a family plot?
Can you advise where Kirk Sessions Minutes might be found - Edinburgh or [hopefully] Dumfries? - I hope to enjoy 'site visit' sometime this year.
Can you see any obvious bloopers in what I've found? [see offline attachments]
Any other useful 'wrinkles' on tracing Scottish forebears?
re Tiana's tree - I wonder whether she links to John Campbell / Mary Shaw - yes another Mary Shaw - of Kirkpatrick Durham who appear in OPR as parents twice ca.1800 but not producing Robert there in 1809.
I think I'm now about to begin the really difficult part of this exercise! Just where did David Campbell & Janet McNish [married ca 1781] come from?
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Hi pangy
I have received your information. It will take me a long time to read it and get back to you. Please note that I am an amateur genealogist with an interest in Kircudbrightshire because some of my ancestors came from there. Because of this, I have learnt a lot about the area and have visited on a number of occasions. I can't give the time at the moment to read through everything that you've sent and it would need considerable checking (and use of units on SP).
At the end of the day, we have to go through our own findings systemmatically and do various checks and tests to check if we have arrived at the correct interpretation.
I would very much appreciate Gadget's expert advice on a number of points, but no hurry:
Do you know if IGI & OPR [on scotlandspeople] are the only available sources of parish records? - those seem a bit patchy for baptisms & marriages, & absent for pre-1855 deaths. They are the only systemmatically availale records. Some recordsare available for non-C of Scotland but these are patchy. Kirk Sessions records are worth investigating
Do you have any of the Balmaghie family on your MIs? Death cert. of David Campbell [1782-1857] says he was buried in 'churchyard' - might there be a family plot? I do have and will look later
Can you advise where Kirk Sessions Minutes might be found - Edinburgh or [hopefully] Dumfries? - I hope to enjoy 'site visit' sometime this year. The records are all in Edinburgh. I have spent many hours going through them to find only a few entries for my ancestors. It is tedious but interesting. SP are planning to put them online in the near future. I'm not sure if the Ewart have them all.
Can you see any obvious bloopers in what I've found? [see offline attachments] It will take me a long time to read through what you've sent
Any other useful 'wrinkles' on tracing Scottish forebears? No more than any where else
Regards
Gadget
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Hi again pangy
It is not really acceptable on Rootschat for lots of information to be sent via private PMs because it inhibits the free sharing of information and discussion about it (lots of statements from Mods about this).
Could I suggest that you start a new thread, either on this Kircudbrightshire board or on the Scotland- General board, staing the information that you have sent me and asking for people to go through it and check your logic. You might have more and faster response that way :)
Regards
Gadget
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Hi pangy
Nothing in the Balmaghie MIs on David (d. 1857) but there is this:
David Campbell, d. Lauriston 21 Dec 1821 aged 65
wife Janet McNish d. 28 May 1834 aged 78
Children - James, draper in Gatehouse d 9 Oct 1849 aged 50 (int. Girthon)
Margaret d. Laurieston 9 Oct 1852, aged 71
Jean Campbell d. Delaware City, US 13 Nov 1853, aged 65 (husband James Colvin)
Mary Campbell d. Laurieston 24 Feb 1887 aged 88 (husband Joseph Fraser)
Gadget
corrected :)
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Thanks Gadget - I'm sure they're mine. But could you please look again at Jean Campbell Colvin's age at death?
Nothing in the Balmaghie MIs on David (d. 1857) but there is this:
David Campbell, d. Lauriston 21 Dec 1821 aged 65
wife Janet McNish d. 28 May 1834 aged 78
Children - James, draper in Gatehouse d 9 Oct 1849 aged 50 (int. Girthon)
Margaret d. Laurieston 9 Oct 1852, aged 71
Jean Campbell d. Delaware City, US 13 Nov 1853, aged 1853 (husband James Colvin)
Mary Campbell d. Laurieston 24 Feb 1887 aged 88 (husband Joseph Fraser)
I wonder why just these 4 [of 8 children] were on MI - parents' favourites perhaps? Certainly Anthony [d. likely early 1850s], David [d.1857], & William [d.1864] predeceased Mary [d.1887]. Could it be they had 'grass graves' - as no one around was able/willing to pay for stone with inscription? I'd like to find MIs for the other children and, particularly, the MIs [or other records of death, if any] for Anthony [1786-early1850s], his wife Mary Shaw [d.between 1841 & 1851 - or ran away from census then], daughter Mary [1824-1844, d. of typhus at Whimpark, Balmaghie par.].
Also I'd like to find proper marriage entry for Anthony & Mary - IGI shows "c.1807 in , , Kirkcudbrightshire" & scotlandspeople ignores them.
Again, thank you Gadget for yr disinterested help/advice - it's much appreciated. ATB to all - is anyone else chasing this line?
p1pangy
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Told you I had Ozzie flu, pangy - she was ever so old wasn't she ;D ;D ;D
I'll go check up later
Kirkcudbright OPRs are a law to themselves - I'd love to have them all in regimental order. It would help sort all mine out.
Gadget
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Hi pangy
I've now corrected the age- she was 65 :)
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Hello all,
Just checking in with all the information that has been posted on the Campbell's. Please keep me updated. Thanks. Tiana