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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hertfordshire Lookup Requests => Hertfordshire => England => Herts Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: delta on Wednesday 14 May 08 14:59 BST (UK)
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I have tried to find this family but to no avail. ???
Joshua Sheldrake, born about 1831 Hemingstone, Suffolk, married Juliana in January 1852 at Hatfield. She was born 1832 Hatfield. As far as I know they had 2 girls, Susannah bp March 1852 an Mary Ann bp March 1857. I have not found any deaths between 1857 & 1881. In 1881 I found Susannah, housemaid in Chelsea.
Joshua's parents were Richard and Susanna who I found in all the censuses from 1841-1891. In one census their surname was given as Sheldrick.
Any help appreciated. :)
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Hi Delta,
Long shot but who knows ...
1861
RG9/1014 116 1
Luton, Bedfordshire
1 Mount Pleasant
John Harvey, head, 30, General Labourer, b. Suffolk
Julia, wife, 29, b. Row Green Herts
Sussannah, dau, 9, scholar, b. Hatfield Herts.
Sarah*, dau, 7, scholar, b. do.
Lizzy, dau, 2, b. Luton Beds
Sarah Lamb, lodger, unm, 20, Straw Broom? Sewer?, b. do.
This is the only likely Julia I can see on census. I would be happier if I could find their marriage and Joshua's death but I can't :P
*There is a 1854 birth in Hatfield for a Sarah Sheldrake
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Marriage Jan/Feb/MAr 1852
Joshua Shledrake
Julia Mardling is likely bride.
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Hi Liz! :D
Can you find the Julia / John Harvey marriage too? :P :P
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Hi!
Am working on it as we speak....
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Hmmmm
Jul/Aug/sep 1861 (after census....?)
marriage John Harvey
Luton reg distr
3b 629
2 grooms on page, only one bride. Jsut off to Full indexes to see if there is a Julia Sheldrake around in that quarter.... bbacksoon
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Bother - no there isnt!
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Oops - maybe I should have told you I'd tried it before :-X ;D
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Not to worry! If two of us looked and couldnt find it is better than no one looking at all.
Like you, I would like to find the marriage n Joshua's death to get it to all gel a bit better. Tho' it certainly looks like them ( I found that Sarah birth too)
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1871
RG10 1573 69 4
29 Burr Str
John Harvey 39 Bricklayers Lab bn Suffolk
Julia 39 bn Hatfield
Susannah 19 bn Hatfield
Lizzie 12 bn Luton
Alice 7 "
Arthur 4 "
Alice Moore 15 visitor
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Birth
Ap/May/Jun 1859
Luton reg distr
Lizzy Harvey
so it looks like she was from the Harvey marriage rather than the Sheldrake one.
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My thanks to both of you for all your hard work.
I agree that it could well be that Joshua died and Julia remarried John Harvey. She was Julianna Mardling, born Roe Green, Hatfield, bp 5.2.1832 and she married Joshua Sheldrake 4.1.1852. Susannah was bp 28.3.1852.
Next time I get a chance to visit the Archives office in Hertford I'll have a look through the Hatfield parish records to see if I can find a death and possibly a marriage between John Harvey and Julianna. As you say, there doesn't seem to be anything on the bmd site.
It strikes me as a very strange coincidence that John Harvey also came from Hemminstone (as did Joshua).
Many thanks
delta
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So are we thinking John Harvey and Joshua Sheldrake are one and the same person? I must say I can't see a matching John Harvey on earlier census!
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Hello Tati
Yes, I was beginning to wonder if they could be one and the same, but why would he change both his first and surnames? Incidentally, I've just realised that Joshua's mother's maiden name was Harvey! The plot thickens.
Delta
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Oh, that's interesting! Were his parents married before he was born?
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Yes, they were married in 1824 and there were 3 other children before Joshua was born, and 3 more afterwards.
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IF it is the same guy who changes his name - it appears he did it between 1854 (Sarah Shaldrake's birth) and 1857 (Lizzy Harvey's birth)
Certainly form the census entries it appears that the children were k/a Harvey too - he has not given their surname as Shaldrake nor called them step children. But that is not really eveidence in itself - many step families are listed in this way.
And you say Susannah uses Sheldrake in a later census when she is grown up.
So (if it is the same guy) whatever reason promted him to change his name was not soooo important to Susannah that she remained with the new name.
If he is not the same guy, it seems highly likely he was a rellie -given the surname Harvey and place he came from. Could be a cousin on Joshua's mums side or something.
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I am now convinced that John Harvey and Joshua Sheldrake are one and the same.
Looking through the Luton marriages I could find none for Harvey but I found 3 for Sheldrake. Sarah M1877, Lizzie M1878 and Alice S1884.
Then I found Louisa Sheldrake Harvey S1889.
I think that Julia (Harvey) died J1883 aged 51. Could you find John/Joshua in 1891 for me please?
Could you also double check the 1871 for the visitor Alice Moore - she was possibly his niece, born South Mimms.
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Could you find John/Joshua in 1891 for me please?
1891
RG12/1272 90 11
Luton, Bedfordshire
67 Burr Street
John Harvey, lodger, wid, 59, General Labourer, b. Hemingstone Suffolk
in the household of Charles Waller, 49, Bricklayer and his wife Mary age 48, both born Luton.
:)
Death John Harvey age 65 Jan 1894 Luton 3b 230
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I wonder if his death cert would mention any previous names?
I suppose it depends on a) if the person registering it knew and b) if the registrar asked them
I find it strange that Lizzy - who was born after the name changing/remarriage took place and so would never have been a Sheldrake, then chose to marry in the name Sheldrake...
would be interesting to see who she names as her father on her marriage cert.
That might be the final piece of evidence to confirm that Josh 'n' John are one and the same
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I guess we'll never know the reason for the change. I can understand Sarah using Sheldrake as she was registered under that name, but not the other 3.
Again, I thank you so much for all your help.
Delta
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Just out of interest, Lizzy married Henry Shane. I just found them in 1881. They also live in Burr Str, Luton!
Married in 1878 at 19, by 1881 she is just 22, but has 4 children, aged 4,2,1 and 6mths.
It just struck me how lifestyles have changed. My daughter is nearly 22, but she is doing finals at Uni! - so different.
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And just to confuse us all further, the eldest of her childen, Henry, who was born in 1877 just before she married Henry Shane, was registered as Henry Sheldrake!!
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I did find the Shane family in 1881 and also Sarah, married to George Day in 1877. They had a daughter Florence Day D1877. Alice married either Albert Buckingham or William Wooler Janes, and Louisa married either John Church Beck or Alfred Austin Warren. I understand that it is only possible to view the marriage records for Luton by visiting the Beds Archive Office so won't be doing that at the moment. The LDS only have marriages up to 1812.
Thank you again for your help in this matter.
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Somebody has found Alice for me in 1891 and 1901. She married William Wooler Janes Sep qtr 1884, and in 1891 she had her sister living with her - Louisa Sheldrake age 16!
I think that Louisa Sheldrake Harvey married Alfred Austin Warren in 1899.
So, many thanks again for helping me to track down Julia and her family.
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4 years later and I may be able to add something to this discussion about Joshua Sheldrake (I am GG grandson of his brother Thomas): the County Petty Sessions section in the Hertfordshire Mercury of 10 May 1851 reports that JS was convicted of snaring in the region of North Mimms, along with George Long and William Kingham. No sentence mentioned, although can't have been long given that he married JM the following year.
This and perhaps later transgressions might explain why he changed his name.
There is little doubt that he and JH are one and the same. Yes, his maternal GM was Jemima Harvey - would love to know more about her.
Ash
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Hello Ash
Thanks for this additional information, which is most helpful.
Unfortunately, I am unable to help with Jemima Harvey - my main research for asking questions was really regarding Joshua's wife Juliana Mardling and her ancestors.
Delta