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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: bettyespana on Thursday 15 May 08 21:36 BST (UK)
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Its me once again,
Now that you have helped me with Alexander Harp c.1783 Duffus Moray. I need to find
who his parents & any siblings were.
I have in my notes 2 possibles: James Harp 1751 & Isbel Clinis or James Harp & Catherine Dixon.
These were from LDS so may not be anything at all to do with my 4x Gt Grandfather Alexander Harp.
Any info appreciated
Regards
bettyespana
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Hello bettyespana
Have no credits for Scotlands People. However - a free search shows that in all of Scotland from 1855 to 1900. there are only 2 Alexander Harp deaths. No point in searching before 1855 - as it won't show his parents.
Birth - Narrow it down to 10 years either side of 1783 and only 1 death entry.
This one dies in Aberdeen(shire) in 1862
If this is your man - his death entry should give his occupation, wifes name and if she is alive, also both parents names and occupation of father.
You should be able to narrow him down from census records, and from wifes death entry.
Minimum spend on SP is £6. Gives possibility to download 5 diferent 'extracts'.
Regards, Steve
If this is your man
As a bonus there are 2 entries in the 'Wills' sections of www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk both will cost £5 to download - you don't use 'credits' - you put them in a basket then purchase them at a check out as you would with Amazon or similar sites.
1 Harp Alexander 14/07/1863 Lighthouse Keeper in Aberdeen T. 14/07/1863 SC1/37/52/p139 See Also SC1/36/53/1 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Wills SC1/37/52 VIEW (£5.00)
(7 pages)
2 Harp Alexander 14/07/1863 Lighthouse Keeper in Aberdeen, died at No. 10 Canal Saint Aberdeen T. 14/07/1863 SC1/37/52/p139 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Inventories SC1/36/53 VIEW (£5.00)
Update: Just found links to your previous messages. The above MUST be him. :O)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,304668.msg1863355.html#msg1863355
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,299464.msg1816469.html#msg1816469
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Hello bettyespana
Have no credits for Scotlands People. However - a free search shows that in all of Scotland from 1855 to 1900. there are only 2 Alexander Harp deaths. No point in searching before 1855 - as it won't show his parents.
Birth - Narrow it down to 10 years either side of 1783 and only 1 death entry.
This one dies in Aberdeen(shire) in 1862
If this is your man - his death entry should give his occupation, wifes name and if she is alive, also both parents names and occupation of father.
You should be able to narrow him down from census records, and from wifes death entry.
Minimum spend on SP is £6. Gives possibility to download 5 diferent 'extracts'.
Regards, Steve
If this is your man
As a bonus there are 2 entries in the 'Wills' sections of www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk both will cost £5 to download - you don't use 'credits' - you put them in a basket then purchase them at a check out as you would with Amazon or similar sites.
1 Harp Alexander 14/07/1863 Lighthouse Keeper in Aberdeen T. 14/07/1863 SC1/37/52/p139 See Also SC1/36/53/1 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Wills SC1/37/52 VIEW (£5.00)
(7 pages)
2 Harp Alexander 14/07/1863 Lighthouse Keeper in Aberdeen, died at No. 10 Canal Saint Aberdeen T. 14/07/1863 SC1/37/52/p139 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Inventories SC1/36/53 VIEW (£5.00)
Update: Just found links to your previous messages. The above MUST be him. :O)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,304668.msg1863355.html#msg1863355
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,299464.msg1816469.html#msg181646
Thank you piglet01,
Apologies for delayed reply,have been away.Yes,this is certainly my Alexander Harp.
The info you have sent me is of a huge help & I really do appreciate your help.
Kind Regards
Betty
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As a bonus there are 2 entries in the 'Wills' sections of www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk both will cost £5 to download - you don't use 'credits' - you put them in a basket then purchase them at a check out as you would with Amazon or similar sites.
1 Harp Alexander 14/07/1863 Lighthouse Keeper in Aberdeen T. 14/07/1863 SC1/37/52/p139 See Also SC1/36/53/1 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Wills SC1/37/52 VIEW (£5.00)
(7 pages)
2 Harp Alexander 14/07/1863 Lighthouse Keeper in Aberdeen, died at No. 10 Canal Saint Aberdeen T. 14/07/1863 SC1/37/52/p139 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Inventories SC1/36/53 VIEW (£5.00)
This is a will and an inventory. The inventory is a list of his possessions, and the will is his instructions on what to do with them. If you don't want to pay two lost of £5, the will is likely to be more useful.
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Hi Piglet01
Thanks for this info will look into it soon.
Not much patience at the moment after 2 close bereavements.
Regards
Betty
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1 Harp Alexander 14/07/1863 Lighthouse Keeper in Aberdeen T. 14/07/1863 SC1/37/52/p139 See Also SC1/36/53/1 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Wills SC1/37/52 VIEW (£5.00)
(7 pages)
2 Harp Alexander 14/07/1863 Lighthouse Keeper in Aberdeen, died at No. 10 Canal Saint Aberdeen T. 14/07/1863 SC1/37/52/p139 Aberdeen Sheriff Court Inventories SC1/36/53 VIEW (£5.00)
Update: Just found links to your previous messages. The above MUST be him. :O)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,304668.msg1863355.html#msg1863355
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,299464.msg1816469.html#msg181646
I see this is an old post but I have come across an Alexander Harp, Head, M, 41, Prin Lighthouse Keeper, born Knockando, Morayshire...............living in Usinish, South Uist (1861) with wife & 7 kids (including twin girls)
Is this your relative?
Annie
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Hello Ammack,
Thank you for this,yes I am sure this is my relative Alexander Harp.
Regards
Betty
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Hi Betty,
A bit more time than I had earlier but thought I would post it just incase I forgot as now I can refer back to where I found it no problem :P
Okay, the rest...
Usinish, South Uist, Inverness-shire
1861
Alexander Harp Head M 41 Prin. Lighthousekeeper Knockando Moray-shire
Helen Harp Wife M 39 Arbroath Forfar-shire
Margaret Harp Dau 14 Rothes Moray-shire
Maryann Amelia Harp Dau 12 Scholar Rosemarkie Ross-shire Twin
Elizabeth Harp Dau 12 Scholar Rosemarkie Ross-shire Twin
Jane Harp Dau 10 Scholar Rosemarkie Ross-shire
Alexander Harp Son 8 Scholar Rosemarkie Ross-shire
William Harp Son 6 Scholar Tarbet Cromarty-shire
Helen Harp Dau 2 Lochalsh Ross-shire
Did you have all the kids or is this new info?
Annie
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Hi Betty,
A bit more time than I had earlier but thought I would post it just incase I forgot as now I can refer back to where I found it no problem :P
Okay, the rest...
Usinish, South Uist, Inverness-shire
1861
Alexander Harp Head M 41 Prin. Lighthousekeeper Knockando Moray-shire
Helen Harp Wife M 39 Arbroath Forfar-shire
Margaret Harp Dau 14 Rothes Moray-shire
Maryann Amelia Harp Dau 12 Scholar Rosemarkie Ross-shire Twin
Elizabeth Harp Dau 12 Scholar Rosemarkie Ross-shire Twin
Jane Harp Dau 10 Scholar Rosemarkie Ross-shire
Alexander Harp Son 8 Scholar Rosemarkie Ross-shire
William Harp Son 6 Scholar Tarbet Cromarty-shire
Helen Harp Dau 2 Lochalsh Ross-shire
Did you have all the kids or is this new info?
Annie
Now I am confused!The Alexander Harp I have was a Light Keeper working for the Northern Commisioners of Lights.According to this 1861c he would have been b.1820! I have him baptised 6.12 1783.Duffus Morayshire.
It also states in the 1861c that his wife is Helen.According to my Alexander he married a Margaret Guthrie 31 Dec 1813 at Fourdon,Kincardinshire.Margaret was bapt 11th Sept 1782 in Arbuthnot,Kincardinshire.
Not sure if her parents were Robert Guthrie & Jean Christie.
1841c @ Peterhead Lighthouse & 1851c 10 Canal St,Greyfriars,Aberdeen.
Another point is the children:
This is what I have:Jean bapt.28.2 1816 Arbroath,Helen & Elizabeth bapt 13.1.1819(poss twins)
Margaret b.1822,Isabella b.1824 & Ann Amelia (my 3x Gt Grandmother) b.circa 1826.These 3 all b.Isle of Man.This info was acquired from Isle of Man records & apparently Alexander Harp was working at lighthouses there at the time.I also have son James b.1820 but not sure where.
In the 1861c which you have sent me details of there are similar names of the children but the dates differ somewhat.The spouse of Alexander has the name Helen not Margaret.
Any advice appreciated please.
Kind regards
Betty
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The one in Uist in 1861 could be a son of the one born in 1783.
Have a look at http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp which lists 14 Harps.
Among these are Alexander, lighthouse keeper, who died in Aberdeen in 1862, and Alexander, assistant lighthouse keeper, who died on 15 December 1874 on the island of Islay. So clearly there were at least two Alexander Harps who were lighthouse keepers. If you get both death certificates from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk they will tell you the names of their parents.
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Have you seen the 1841 census at Forteath's Close, Elgin?
William Harp 75 Ag lab Born Scotland not Moray
Jane Harp 55 Born Moray
Alexander Harp 20 Carpenter Born Moray
Could this be Alexander who later married Helen Harp and became a lighthouse keeper in Uist and Islay? Note that Alexander and Helen were married in Elgin in 1843. His death certificate should settle that question.
In 1851 William, aged 85, gardener, born Auldearn, and wife Jane, 64, born Urquhart, are still in Elgin. William probably died before 1854 because Jane Mann or Harp applied to the Elgin Parochial Board for assistance in 1854.
William seems to match the William Harp born in Auldearn and baptised on 26 May 1765, son of John Harp and Elizabeth McIntosh.
Also 1841 at Light House, Peterhead
Alexander Harp 55 Lighthouse keeper Born Scotland not Aberdeenshire
and several children including Helen, aged 20, born Scotland not Aberdeenshire. This matches the daughter of Alexander Harp and Margaret Guthrie, who was born in Arbroath in 1819.
So could this Helen Harp be the wife of the Uist and Islay lighthouse keeper - in other words, No 2 was the son-in-law, not the son, of No 1?
Helen Harp died in Toronto, Ontario, in 1897.
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Have you seen the 1841 census at Forteath's Close, Elgin?
William Harp 75 Ag lab Born Scotland not Moray
Jane Harp 55 Born Moray
Alexander Harp 20 Carpenter Born Moray
Could this be Alexander who later married Helen Harp and became a lighthouse keeper in Uist and Islay? Note that Alexander and Helen were married in Elgin in 1843. His death certificate should settle that question.
In 1851 William, aged 85, gardener, born Auldearn, and wife Jane, 64, born Urquhart, are still in Elgin. William probably died before 1854 because Jane Mann or Harp applied to the Elgin Parochial Board for assistance in 1854.
William seems to match the William Harp born in Auldearn and baptised on 26 May 1765, son of John Harp and Elizabeth McIntosh.
Also 1841 at Light House, Peterhead
Alexander Harp 55 Lighthouse keeper Born Scotland not Aberdeenshire
and several children including Helen, aged 20, born Scotland not Aberdeenshire. This matches the daughter of Alexander Harp and Margaret Guthrie, who was born in Arbroath in 1819.
So could this Helen Harp be the wife of the Uist and Islay lighthouse keeper - in other words, No 2 was the son-in-law, not the son, of No 1?
Helen Harp died in Toronto, Ontario, in 1897.
This last one is definitely my 4x Gt Grandfather & Helen was b.1.Jan 1819(c.13.1.1819) Arbroath.
You may be right in assuming Helen may be the wife of the Uist & Islay lighthouse keeper.I will try to look further into this.
Interesting also to note the death of Helen in Ontario 1897.
Helens sister Ann Amelia(3xGt Grandmother) had a daughter Louise who used to visit Canada quite often with her husband & I often wondered for what purpose.This was probably to visit her Aunt Helen & family.
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I will try to look further into this.
Your first step is to get those two death certificates from Scotland's People. There is no other way to settle some of the questions above.
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The one in Uist in 1861 could be a son of the one born in 1783.
Hi Betty,
I have absolutely no connection to the "Harp" family but realised while doing a search of my own family on S/UIst that the name seemed somewhat unusual (NOT an Uist name)!!! ;D
I decided to use the rootschat search facility to search "Harp, Moray" to find out if anyone was researching this family?
I know when I'm researching my own family, I'm reluctant to spend unnecessary creds on SP if I have no clue as to where they could be ;)
I had the info. here & thought it may be of use to yourself or at least someone at a cost of £0.00?
Regards,
Annie
ADDED.......
This family were only on Uist for 1861 & I believe this Alexander to be the one who died 1862 although I may be wrong?
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The one in Uist in 1861 could be a son of the one born in 1783.
Hi Betty,
I have absolutely no connection to the "Harp" family but realised while doing a search of my own family on S/UIst that the name seemed somewhat unusual (NOT an Uist name)!!! ;D
I decided to use the rootschat search facility to search "Harp, Moray" to find out if anyone was researching this family?
I know when I'm researching my own family, I'm reluctant to spend unnecessary creds on SP if I have no clue as to where they could be ;)
I had the info. here & thought it may be of use to yourself or at least someone at a cost of £0.00?
Regards,
Annie
ADDED.......
This family were only on Uist for 1861 & I believe this Alexander to be the one who died 1862 although I may be wrong?
[/quote
Hi Annie,
I do so appreciate you contacting me with this info & you may well be right in what you think about the 1861 entry.My Alexander Harp apparently died in 1862.
Alexander was already in his 69th year at the 1851c when he lived at 10 Canal St in Aberdeen & I believe that is the same address where he died.I wouldn't have thought that he would still be employed 10 yrs later by the Northern Light Board & why would he put his age down as 41yrs of age.
I have been trying to buy credits on Scotland People but they will not accept my Euro Credit card for payment which I find very odd.Will see if my bank here in Spain if they can sort this out.
Kind regards
Betty
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Betty,
Looks like you can discount the Alexander who was in Uist from death pre 1871 as he is here:
1871 Noss, Wick Caithness
Name: Helen Harp
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : Alexander Harp
Gender: Female
Where born: Arbroath, Forfar
Registration Number: 43/1
Registration district: Wick Landward
Civil Parish: Wick
Town: Hill of Noss
County: Caithness
Address: Noss Lighthouse
Occupation: Lightkeeper's Wife
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 2
LINE: 10
Roll: CSSCT1871_8
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Harp 51
Helen Harp 50
Eliza Harp 21
Helen Harp 12
Source Citation
Parish: Wick; ED: 1; Page: 1; Line: 10; Roll: CSSCT1871_8
This was to let you see that wife Helen is still said to be born Arbroath.
Alexander is still said to be born Nockando, Moray
I do think it is too much of a coincidence with similar job/kids names for them not to be related ???
More leaves for the branches hopefully ;D
Annie
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Alexander & Helen (maiden name Harp) :o :o married 1843
Marriage & births here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01eoe/
They may be 1st/2nd cousins ???
Their death certs. will hopefully reveal a lot :-\
Annie
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Here we have them in Ontario 1891
Name: Alexander Harp
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 71
Birth Year: abt 1820
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Religion: Free Church
French Canadian: No
Spouse's Name: Ellen Harp
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Province: Ontario
District Number:130
District: York East
Subdistrict: St Pauls Ward
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Harp 71
Ellen Harp 69
William Harp 30
Eliza Harp 39
Source Citation
Year: 1891; Census Place: St Pauls Ward, York East, Ontario; Roll: T-6379; Family No: 390
Annie
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I found an entry for a death for an:
Alexander Harp, died 18 Jul 1906 age 88 Married, 1 Ketchum Avenue, York, Ontario
Annie
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This family were only on Uist for 1861 & I believe this Alexander to be the one who died 1862 although I may be wrong?
You are mixing up two entirely different people. Of course the one in Uist in 1861 aged 41 is not the one who was in Aberdeen in 1851.
The one who died in Aberdeen in 1862 was aged 74, so he cannot be the one who was in Uist in 1861 aged 41. If his age on his death certificate is accurate, his year of birth would have been 1787/1788.
The one who died in 1874 was aged 22. Therefore he cannot be the one who was aged 41 in 1861. he is probably the son of Alexander Harp and Helen Harp, born in Fortrose in 1852.
Therefore there must have been three, not two, Alexander Harps who were lighthouse keepers:
(1) Born in the 1780s in Duffus, married Margaret Guthrie, retired to Aberdeen before 1851, died there in 1862 aged 74.
(2) Born Knockando about 1820, married Helen Harp (who may be the daughter of (1) above), lived in Uist and later in Wick, emigrated to Canada before 1891 and died there in 1906 aged 88.
(3) Born about 1852, died in Islay in 1874 aged 22. Possibly son of (2).
The death certificates will sort all of this out.
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You are mixing up two entirely different people. Of course the one in Uist in 1861 aged 41 is not the one who was in Aberdeen in 1851.
Therefore there must have been three, not two, Alexander Harps who were lighthouse keepers:
(1) Born in the 1780s in Duffus, married Margaret Guthrie, retired to Aberdeen before 1851, died there in 1862 aged 74.
(2) Born Knockando about 1820, married Helen Harp (who may be the daughter of (1) above), lived in Uist and later in Wick, emigrated to Canada before 1891 and died there in 1906 aged 88.
(3) Born about 1852, died in Islay in 1874 aged 22. Possibly son of (2).
The death certificates will sort all of this out.
;D ;D ;D
I'm not mixing anyone up.
Initially, when I had no time to read through everything & couldn't find Alexander who was in Uist in 1861 on the 1871 census, I assumed he'd died & possibly the age given may have been an error.
However, I did find him in 1871 therefore just mentioning it couldn't be him who died so that "Betty" knows I'm up-to-date :-)
My theory is they are however related i.e. I have posted what I could find if it turns out to be the case ::)
Annie
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My theory is they are however related
Mine too. I reckon (2) is the son-in-law of (1) and (3) is the son of (2) and grandson of (1).
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Here we have them in Ontario 1891
Name: Alexander Harp
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 71
Birth Year: abt 1820
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Religion: Free Church
French Canadian: No
Spouse's Name: Ellen Harp
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Province: Ontario
District Number:130
District: York East
Subdistrict: St Pauls Ward
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Harp 71
Ellen Harp 69
William Harp 30
Eliza Harp 39
Source Citation
Year: 1891; Census Place: St Pauls Ward, York East, Ontario; Roll: T-6379; Family No: 390
Annie
Hi Annie,
Thank you for all this info & I am sure also that there is a link between the two.
Like myself I think Helen Harp(1) married a man with the same surname.Not only that but he also had the same 1st name as her father.
They went on to name some of their children in the same way as we all find in our searches of past relatives.
As you say if I can get the death certs hopefully that will give us the answer.
Kind regards & thank you once again
Betty
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Here we have them in Ontario 1891
Name: Alexander Harp
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 71
Birth Year: abt 1820
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Religion: Free Church
French Canadian: No
Spouse's Name: Ellen Harp
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Province: Ontario
District Number:130
District: York East
Subdistrict: St Pauls Ward
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Harp 71
Ellen Harp 69
William Harp 30
Eliza Harp 39
Source Citation
Year: 1891; Census Place: St Pauls Ward, York East, Ontario; Roll: T-6379; Family No: 390
Annie
Hi Annie,
Thank you for all this info & I am sure also that there is a link between the two.
Like myself I think Helen Harp(1) married a man with the same surname.Not only that but he also had the same 1st name as her father.
They went on to name some of their children in the same way as we all find in our searches of past relatives.
As you say if I can get the death certs hopefully that will give us the answer.
Kind regards & thank you once again
Betty
When I said "like myself" I meant both myself & my husband had the same surnames!
Looking at the other posts it appears we have all come to similar conclusions
Betty
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The attached is from the Glasgow Herald.