RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Showman One on Friday 16 May 08 00:40 BST (UK)
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I have been asked by my grandfather to help him trace our family tree back as far as we can...
our Surname is Osborne however my grandfathers mother was a gumble... i need to get a lot more information as it is but i was wondering if anyone knows of any information or if they are also looking for the sam,e names?
from what i am told our oral history puts us around Essex and Suffolk as far back at the 1900's
I am just starting out so any help or tips would be great.
Aston Osborne
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Hi Aston
Welcome to Rootschat
If you can give any names/dates/places for anybody that is now deceased, perhaps somebody could take a look at some resources for you or give you some advice on where to look.
Casalgudi :)
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thanks for the advice... like i said i am just starting out i need to get some background and dates of family members.
ill post what i find out on here.
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I have been asked by my grandfather to help him trace our family tree back as far as we can...
our Surname is Osborne however my grandfathers mother was a gumble... i need to get a lot more information as it is but i was wondering if anyone knows of any information or if they are also looking for the sam,e names?
from what i am told our oral history puts us around Essex and Suffolk as far back at the 1900's
I am just starting out so any help or tips would be great.
I have Gumble on my tree. I belong to Romany & Traveller family history society and have transcribed some Gumbles if you are interested.
Aston Osborne
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I belong to the Romany & Traveller Family History Society and have done some Gumble transcribing. I also have Gumble on my Bibby Tree.
Get back to me if you are still active with your Gumball name.
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.
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This may be of help, during the mid 1970's I lived in Roydon Essex and there was a Gumble family living there.
They were definitely a travelling family. During the summer months they would pack up and go apple picking in Kent.
I really can't remember any of the names but I do think one of the children was called Jimmy, he attended Roydon Primary school High Street Essex.
The family may still be in Essex.
When there was a family gypsy death locally , gypsy families from all over the UK would arrived and for 3/4 days they would park (caravans) on Nazeing Common to mourn. I think they were related to the Issac's and Watson and several other local families.
So sorry I can't remember much else but there is a definite Essex connection for you to work on.
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Thank you so much for your information and next time I am at Chelmsford at the Essex Record Office I will look up some Parish Registers.
Thanks once again
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Many thanks for your mail.
This may be where you're experiencing problems.
Roydon is very close to the Hertfordshire boarders so you may find that some records are kept in Herts not Essex.
My son was at school with the Gumble children, I've asked if he can remember anything but at the moment nothing comes to mind.
Next time I visit friends I will ask for you.
Roydon is only about 45 minutes drive from Chelmsford, it boarders Harlow new town, you may find some of the Gumbles listed in Harlow telephone directory, if not try Nazeing, Hoddesdon, Broxborne.
Quite a few gypsy families settled in Roydon, some used to come to school on horses, the horses were taken back by an old boy who had led the children to school.
My sons were taught to ride by one family but sadly I can't remember their names. Every year the families used to go to the Derby to trade, business was done by a spit on the hands and then a shake of the hands. Regards Jackie (now in Somerset)
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Just browsing around and saw the GUMBLE surname. It rang a bell.
A friend of mine, a teacher, lived in Hertfordshire during the 1970s. I think perhaps the school where she worked was in Enfield - hard to remember now.
They had children from a GUMBLE family in the school. I think they were quite a large extended family. I can vaguely remember the name Billy GUMBLE. The GUMBLEs were travellers, and mainly used to travel up and down the A1. Billy would appear in her class for a while, and then be gone, and my friend would hear that the trailers had been seen a few miles further up the A1. Then the children would be back, as that area seemed to be the base they always came back to.
Not sure if that helps anyone track any names down.
Best wishes,
Edwina :)
PS. Just noticed Jackie's message mentioned Hoddesdon. That is where my friend lived, but I think she worked in the London Borough of Enfield.
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Hi again,
Just remembered the other family name the Gumbles were related to is Spencer, they lived very, very close to the Gumbles on the Nazeing Road, in Dobbs Weir Essex on the Herts Essex boarder.
Although both famlies had caravans, they lived in houses for most of the year, the Gumbles lived on the Council Estate in Roydon and the Spencers lived in their private bungalow which had quite a lot of land. The Gumbles were short, dark hair and socky whereas the Spencers were tall, slim and blonde. I had hoped to find a school photo but sadly I don't have any class photo's. Regards Jackie
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Hi I'm new to this site looking around and saw your query about the Gumbles
my grandmother was Maryanne Gumble
her father was John/ Jack Gumble he came from a very large family he was the eldest and his youngest sister Louie passed away in 2001 she was 27 years his Junior
my grandmother was one of 10 they have all passed now leaving 1 sister in law &1 brother in law
i am trying to find out more on great grandfather's side we are from hertfordshire if i can help with any thing please let me know
Barbara
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Hello, nice to see your posting.
I have a small amount of Gumble transcriptions that I gather with my other traveller transcriptions. If you would like me to email them to you please let me know your email. Happy New Year to everyone.
Regards
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do i just post my email ?
I'm new to this
Barbara
happy new year to all as well ;)
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Barbara, you can PM (personal message) anyone on this board, and this is the way you exchange email addresses and anything more private.
Just click on Griggsgal's name, next to the post, and at the bottom of her page it will say how to send a personal message.
Happy New Year! :)
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thank you
I think this site is amazing Ive been looking at the photo restoration
just about to give it a go on cs2
wish me luck
Barbara :)
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The Photo Restoration is FANTASTIC!
Go on, have a go. Everyone is very kind.
:)
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hi barbara
iam new to this-you left a message in december of last year re your gumble's your granny marryanne and your greatgrandfther john jack gumble-please contact me if your still on line as i would love to no more as the gumble's are my relations
Barney
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Hi Barney
If you want to get in touch with Barbara, scottgirl, you can send her a personal message by clicking on the green scroll underneath her name.
this may get hold of her quicker.
:)
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hello
my g grandmother was an osborne g grandad hale (canal connections) i have a photo of a little girl (dads sister around 1932)on the steps of a wooden gypsie style caravan
wondering if any connection to your osborne family
regards jeannette
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I have been asked by my grandfather to help him trace our family tree back as far as we can...
our Surname is Osborne however my grandfathers mother was a gumble... i need to get a lot more information as it is but i was wondering if anyone knows of any information or if they are also looking for the sam,e names?
from what i am told our oral history puts us around Essex and Suffolk as far back at the 1900's
I am just starting out so any help or tips would be great.
Aston Osborne
[/quote
i have some info on gumbles & osbourne/osborne i will PM you
a.
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Hi
my granny Ada was a gumble her father was levi gumble who's father was john jack gumble....my granny and great grandfather lived on belvedere marsh and some of my grannie's sisters married Lee's...she had one brother Levi (midgie) who married Lucy Upton....so any more info on the Gumble's would be much appreciated
Dave
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hello dave,
have we been in contact before?? only i seem to recall your name... well barney 123 anyway ;)
if not what info can i help with if any?
a.
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hi im a gumble, my dads mother was an upton, they also came from round tthat area belveder etc....
my grandfarther jack gumble was married to phyllis upton .
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There is a man who lives on a site in Belvedere who is also doing his tree, I will look out what I have on him and pm you when I find it.
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hi my partner is a gumble and has most of the family on facebook if u need any help add him its kevin mc gumzle gumble
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This is in two parts because of the word limit.
The travelling GUMBLEs appear from nowhere in the London area in the 1860s and most of them seem to be descended from James (bc1836 Essex) whose eldest son, John, married twice the second being Ada (reg Annie) BOSWELL. John’s first marriage, below; is followed by his son’s marriage to Rachel HAMPTON.
LMA Battersea St John m29/6/1874 John GUMBALL (20) hkr (fa: James – hkr) = Rachael ROLLING (21) (fa: Edward – hkr)
LMA Earlsfield St Andrew m26/12/1893 John GUMBLE (19) hkr (fa: John – gn.dlr) = Rachel HAMPTON (19) (fa: William – hkr)
GUMBLE BAPTISMS:
EX Little Chesterford bp18/4/1858 Mary Ann d/o Henry/Barbara, trav [GUMBROW sic]
EX Romford St Edward bp26/6/1859 Alice d/o James/Sarah, gn.dlr of Tunbridge Wells [GOMBRELL sic]
EX Victoria Docks St Luke bp4/11/1883 (b19/9) Daniel s/o Daniel/Louisa [née LEE] hkr of Cherry Island [GAMBLE sic]
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp16/7/1919 Kenzer s/o Herbert/Ada, salesman of Occ’n Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp16/7/1919 Alvina d/o Herbert/Ada, salesman of Occ’n Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp14/8/1921 John s/o Herbert/Elvina, lab of 25,Occupation Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp4/5/1923 Maud d/o Herbert/Elvina hkr of 25 Occupation Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp17/6/1925 Albert s/o Levi/Lilac, hkr of Occupation Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp7/7/1926 Relly d/o Levi/Liler, lab of 85, Occupation Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp28/8/1927 James s/o Levi/Lila [née SMITH] hkr of 82, Occupation Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp22/12/1929 Lila d/o Levi/Lila, lab of 82, New Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp24/1/1932 Herbert s/o Levi/Lila, hkr of 82, New Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp17/2/1935 (b30/1) Linda d/o Levi/Lila, hkr of 82, New Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp9/6/1940 (b24/5) Kenzer s/o Kenzer/Malvina lab 83 New Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp23/3/1941 (b22/2) John s/o John/Phyllis, lab of 138 New Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp10/10/1943 (b17/9) Herbert s/o Herbert/Mary, lab of 138, New Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp2/4/1944 (b14/3) Leila d/o Levi/Lucy, hkr of 4, East Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp13/2/1949 (b24/1) Levi s/o Levi/Lucy, hkr of 148, Occ’n Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp4/5/1952 (b11/6/1947) Rebecca d/o James/Rebecca, lab of 2, East Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp4/9/1955 (b2/6) Linda Jane d/o Levi/Lucy, gn.dlr of Abbey Farm, Abbey Wood
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp4/9/1955 (b12/5/1953) Belcher s/o Levi/Lucy, gn.dlr of Abbey Farm, Abbey Wood
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp4/9/1955 (b28/2/1951) Louise d/o Levi/Lucy, gn.dlr of Abbey Farm, Abbey Wood
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp4/9/1955 (b7/10/1954) Ada d/o Levi/Lucy, gn.dlr of Abbey Farm, Abbey Wood
KT.LSH Deptford St John bp28/7/1889 (b4/6) Bertie s/o John/Ada, trav’g hkr of Brockly Hill Fields
W.KT Nettlestead bp13/9/1868 Selina d/o Henry/Barbara, ch.mnd hopping at N. [GUMBRELL sic]
W.KT Offham bp3/9/1911 (b18/8/1909) John s/o John/Ellen Sophia, hkr & hopper
KT.BRO Orpington All Saints bp14/7/1895 Levi s/o John/Ada, hrs.dlr of O
KT.BRO Orpington All Saints bp14/7/1895 Randle s/o John/Ada, hrs.dlr of O
W.KT Paddock Wood bp10/9/1953 (b18/51952) Lenda d/o William/Lenda, hopper of Badsell Park Farm
W.KT Paddock Wood bp10/9/1953 (b6/9/1945) Peter William s/o William/Lenda, hopper of Badsell Park Farm
LMA Battersea St John bp7/4/1866 Eliza d/o James/Mary lic.hkr Wandsworth [GRUMBLE sic]
LMA Earlsfield bp4/11/1894 John s/o John/Rachel, hkr of Caravans, Wardley Street
LMA Earlsfield bp18/10/1896 William s/o John/Rachel, hkr of 60, Wardley Street
LMA Earlsfield bp28/8/1898 Mark s/o John/Rachel, flr.slr of 68, Wardley Street
LMA Earlsfield bp12/8/1900 Rachel d/o John/Rachel, flr.slr of 60 Wardley Street
LMA Earlsfield pbp22/4/1902 Albert s/o John/Rachel, hkr of 60, Wardley Street
LMA Earlsfield bp22/3/1903 Henry s/o John/Rachel, flr.hkr of 18, Wardley Street
LMA Earlsfield bp1/1/1905 James s/o John/Rachel, hkr of 68, Wardley Street
LMA Earlsfield bp14/4/1907 Ellen d/o John/Rachel, flr.slr of 68, Wardley Street
LMA Edmonton St Alphege bp14/12/1919 (b2/12) Rayney d/o Levi/Lillah [née SMITH] hkr of 50, St Marys Road
LMA Edmonton St Alphege bp5/2/1922 (b24/1) Ada d/o Levi/Lillah, hkr of 50, St Marys Rd
LMA Edmonton St Alphege bp21/1/1923 (b9/1) Levi s/o Levi/Lillah, hkr of 50, St Marys Rd
MDX Hackney (Clapton) St James the Great bp2/5/1875 (b31/3) John s/o John/Rachel, hkr of Battersea
MDX Lower Edmonton St Peter bp7/5/1915 Lily d/o Levi/Lila, hkr of 61, St Mary’s Road
MDX Stanwell bp6/10/1867 Charles Henry Field s/o Levi/Lydia, lab of S. Moor [GAMBLE sic]
SRY West Molesey bp3/6/1866 Anna d/o John/Alice, hkr trav’g [GUMBUL sic]
TL
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Second Part
Familysearch offers several similar names at Wisborough Green SX of which I checked the last two because they could provide occupations. ‘Labourer’ is not strong evidence, however, the first of the following shows William GUMBLE coming from Worth which is about 15 miles to the east of Wisborough Green. A baptism for James, son of William and Ruth, woud prove a possible connection to the following:
GUMBLE:
KT.GRN Charlton St Luke bp18/5/1828 (b8/5) Eleanor d/o William/Ruth, tramper of Worth SX
W.SX Wisborough Green bp29/4/1798 Ruth d/o Henry/Ruth [Ø]
W.SX Wisborough Green bp14/9/1800 (b21/8) Susannah d/o Henry/Ruth [GAMBLE sic] [Ø]
W.SX Wisborough Green bp27/6/1802 (b19/6) William s/o Henry/Ruth [Ø]
W.SX Wisborough Green bp17/3/1805 (b10/11) Henry s/o Henry/Ruth [Ø]
W.SX Wisborough Green bp17/9/1809 John s/o Henry/Ruth [Ø]
W.SX Wisborough Green bp21/2/1813 (b8/1) James s/o Henry/Ruth, lab
W.SX Wisborough Green bp13/8/1815 (b25/7) Mary d/o Henry/Ruth, lab
TL
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Here are some OSBORNEs which may be useful:
EX Tolleshunt Darcy bp30/5/1824 Eliza d/o Thomas/Alice OSBORNE, hkr of the psh of Kingsworth HRT [added:] St Alban
W.KT Ruckinge bp24/10/1829 Whilemena d/o Spain/Mary OSBORNE, lab of R
LIN Grantham St Wulfram m27/1/1834 Moses HERRING = Sarah OSBOURNE, bsotp
NTS Towcester bp19/2/1773 David s/o David/Harriet OSBORNE, strolling players
NTS Wittering bp17/4/1835 Uraniah d/o Moses/Betsy, trav’g gypsies (of BDF) [OSBORN sic]
YKS.NLN Ingleton bp5/2/1871 Caroline Annie d/o Mark/Annie OSBORNE, hrs.kpr of I.
EX Chelmsford Borough Cemetery Gr: Hubert OSBORNE b10/7/1919 d22/8/2000 (81)
EX Chelmsford Borough Cemetery Gr: William Percy OSBORN (1919-2003)
EX Chelmsford Borough Cemetery Ivy Gladys OSBORNE (1919-2000)
SRY Chertsey br15/10/1809 Sarah [née OSBORNE] w/o Daniel BARNES, hkr & pedlar [Ø]
1891EX-1350/83/53 George OSBORNE (50) showman, Ester (49) +4
TL
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hi noticed alot of names in those dates wich are my granny granfarther and great uncles n aunts etc.... does anyone now were the gumbles came from , alot of us are very dark skined so our we from abroad ? does any1 have any pictures ? im new to this :-\
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Just saw the name Osbourne...I have two different 'sets' of Osbournes Lincolnshire and Rutland and just skimming through your answers noticed the A1 mentioned so the A1 passes both places, don't think 'mine' had any traveller connections though, but you never know.
Another 'resource' you may be able to use is http://familytimeline.webs.com/apps/links/ it has a whole section of links to family history of travelling families which may save you time searching. :o
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Hi new and just found this website and chat I'm a Gumble was raised in Wandsworth earlsfield area my grandad is James Gumble just wondering if anyone is still active on here and possibly related to anyone
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My name is Linda June gumble my grandfather is Levi gumble his father is john jack gumble I was wondering if anybody had a picture of john jack gumble or his eldest son john gumble , I have a picture of one of them but I don't no which one it is the website will not let me put the picture on , if anyone has any info please get in touch
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My name is Linda June Gumble my grandfather is Levi Gumble his father is john 'jack' Gumble I was wondering if anybody had a picture of john jack Gumble or his eldest son john Gumble , I have a picture of one of them but I don't know which one it is the website will not let me put the picture on , if anyone has any info please get in touch
HI Linda, do you not have contact with the family in Essex, if not I have contact with some of them via my Facebook. I also have a family group that you will be able to ask questions to family members, in the 26 yrs of doing our family all the John Gumble's referred to themselves as John 'Jack' Gumble. I have a family tree that may add some new members of the family to yours as well if you have one?
Gordon
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My grandfather Wally Mason lived in Wardley street with my father who was also named Wally. My uncle (dads brother ) was named George.My grandmother Lavinia came from a travelling background...her maiden name was Marney...dad used to mention Henry Gumble but I would like to find out more as all the Masons mentioned above are sadley no longer with us.
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Hi Steve,
I am descended from the Gumble's of Wardley Street and in fact, my great great uncle Thomas Gumble married a Mary Emily Mason (1919-1990), she later married his and my great grandfather's nephew Henry Gumble (1921-1996) this maybe the Henry Gumble that you speak of. I happy to say that I am in contact with the cousins via Facebook and I believe they have contact with some Mason's too. I have added a link for my Facebook or if you are a member of the Romany Heritage Family History group on Facebook you will find me in there.
https://www.facebook.com/gordon.davisday.3
My grandfather Wally Mason lived in Wardley street with my father who was also named Wally. My uncle (dads brother ) was named George.My grandmother Lavinia came from a travelling background...her maiden name was Marney...dad used to mention Henry Gumble but I would like to find out more as all the Masons mentioned above are sadly no longer with us.
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Hi my mum is a gumble her mum was Ellen gumble and her dad Joe Chapman from Hertfordshire Hatfield Watford way me mum is Alice gumble she has 9 brothers and sisters. Me mums grandad is John gumble I think and me mums granny was a Townsend not sure if this helps in anyway
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The Gumble name caught my attention because my maiden name is Gambrell and we really have no proof of where our family came to American from. It is 'tradition' that they may have come from Ireland to America, but no proof of that. I've seen Gumble shown as a possible variation of Gambrell. In DNA research, we 'thought' at one time we're related to the Gambrel / Gumbrel / etc. family from Kent, but it seems DNA has disproved that. Years ago I communicated with someone at a parish office in Kent, England and she suggested that maybe our surname was an alias due to an illegitimate child and that the biological name is actually something else. So, lots of speculation and not much else surrounding my maiden name.
I know it's a longshot, but 'just in case', my Gedmatch kit # is RL048381C1. My DNA consultants results and my Gedmatch admixture do show I have Roma / Romani DNA. I also compared my kits to those here:
http://www.newforestromanygypsytraveller.co.uk/dna.php
and I match all, to one degree or another, depending on the settings used. Also, I've been curious about the New Forest and Epping Forest communities because those names were also given to communities in Colonial America to which I have connections. I have multiple lines of Native American ancestry and have been told that the early Romani to America often blended in with them and over time their ancestral identify was lost, as they began to identify with the Native Americans. That makes sense with what was happening ethnically in this country and fits with my DNA. Still, like anyone, I hope to find the actual ancestors if I can.
My son and I also show Iberian (Portuguese and Spanish) DNA. My son's is 21.8% and we have no close Iberian ancestors. He also shows Finnish which I have read can be part of our Native American or part of our Romani. I'm thinking in cases like ours, it's perhaps not an either/or but a both.
For a while I participated in a Romany Research UK group and I match with almost everyone but no idea 'how'. I even found a member of the group who shows as my 5th-8th cousin in my DNA matches on Ancestry. She and her family are from Wales. I match every Gedmatch kit# from her kinfolk that she shared with me. We shared our trees with each other and still never found how we're related.
I added a lot of known family lines to my Ancestry tree in hopes of finding how I'm related to them. Still have no clue. I did find one ancestral line of mine that 'may' be what I've been looking for. Maybe someone on here can confirm or refute this for me. This is a 9th great-grandfather of mine who immigrated from Epping Forest UK to America:
Edward Riggs II, Sgt. in the Pequot War of 1637*
BIRTH ABT. 1619 • Nazeing, Epping Forest District, Essex, England
DEATH: 05 MAR 1667 • Newark, Essex County, New Jersey, Colonial America
His father Edward Riggs I wasn't from Epping Forest, but his mother Elizabeth (Holmes) Riggs was:
Elizabeth (Holmes) Riggs of Epping Forest
BIRTH ABT. 1590 • Nazeing, Epping Forest District, Essex, England
Elizabeth's father was also from Epping Forest. His wife's maiden name may have been Rooke. I haven't traced back any farther than them.
If anyone recognizes these family lines or can tell me more about the Nazeing community in Epping Forest District, that would be much appreciated.