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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: kitty5 on Friday 16 May 08 15:29 BST (UK)
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I am tracing the family tree of William Dalziel born 1821/22 Twynholm, Kirkcudbrightshire.
He was a tailor and clothier.
He married Agnes Telfer born 03/05/1821 Girthon.
they married at Girthon 14/01/1842
they lived in Borgue Village and are still living there on the 1881 census but not after.
Agnes father was Samuel Telfer born abt 1796 Buitle, Kirkcudbrightshire . a master shoemaker employing 5 men .
Agnes mother was Sarah Scott born abt 1796 Dumfries.
In 1851 census Samuel Telfer and family were living at
High Street,
Parish Girthon
Gatehouse of Fleet.
I know the children of both families, but cannot find any deaths or family history any information would be great.
Before her marriage Agnes may have worked as a servent at Girthon Manor for the Jeffrey Family???
Many thanks
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Hi Kitty :)
I've just found William's death - 24 March 1909, Borgue village, aged 88. Tailor and clothier Widower of Agnes Telfer.
Parents - James Dalziel, shoemaker and Margaret, m.s. Ray or Roy, both deceased.
I'll PM you!
Gadget
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In 1891 they are in Borgue village, but their ages are wrong on the index - 49 instead of 69:
William Dalziel, head, 69, Tailor, b. Girthon
Agnes, wife, 69, tailor's wife, b. Girthon
William, son, 39, tailor, b. Borgue
Mary Jane, dau, 31, tailor's daughter, b. Borgue
Janet, 29, tailor's daughter, b. Borgue
Wm George, grdson,15, tailor's apprentice, b. England
Gadget :)
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Here's a bit of the 1891 image to show that it is definitely 69 not 49:
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The family are still there in 1901
Borgue Village
William Dalziel, 80, tailor, b. Twynholm
Agnes, 79, b. Girthon
William, 48, tailor, b. Borgue
Mary Jane, 41, b. Borgue
Janet, 39, b. Borgue
Ellen J Frankes (?), grddaughter, 14, b. England
So Agnes must have died between 1901 and 1909.
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The Scotland's People site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk has the death for Agnes Dalziel (other surname - Telfer) aged 80 listed in 1901, Borgue.
Gadget
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Twynholm baptisms (1800-1830) - Father James -
20 Aug 1809 - John (Dazel) - mother Margaret Roy
19 May 1811 - James
22 Aug 1813 - Agnes
17 March 1816 - Helen
No sign of William
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:D
Got an MI for James and Margaret in Twynholm:
It's actually on one that the first name is John Roy (d. 15 Dec 1812, aged 62)
................... Jas Dalzell d. Twynholm 23 October 1872, aged 88 and wife Margaret Roy, d. Twynholm 12 July 1864, aged 85.
As they died after 1854, you will be able to get the full death certs for them from the Scotland's People site and find their parents names.
There are lots of other people listed on the tombstone. I'll list them separately.
Gadget
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The Roy- Dalziel family seem to be interrelated. i think it might be worth you doing a bit of sifting through this list. I would think that there is a good chance that that John Roy and Agnes Dickson could be Margaret Roy's parents (and William Dalziel's grandparents.)
John Roy - 15 Dec 1817, aged 62.
Wife - Agnes Dickson - 9 Nov 1843, aged 88.
Children
William - 22 Aug 1785, aged 2
Grizel - 8 Mar 1794, aged 10 mths
Cath - 15 Sept 1794, aged 8
Hugh -21 April 1816, aged 23
Then -
Agnes Dazell - 16 Feb 1839, aged 24. Husband Thos McClure
Jas Dazell (as previous message) and wife Margt Roy (as previous message)
Jas Daziel wife Mary Hudson - 27 March 1904, aged 74
Thos Dalziel - 29 April 1899, aged 80. Wife - Isabella Robison 25 jan 1900, aged 81 and-
imo da Mary G d. 16 Feb 1857, aged 5, s. John d. 1 March 1858, aged 11, s. jas, 4 April 1869, aged 20, s. Thos G 23 Feb 1888, aged 21, s. Wm 27 March 1892, aged 36, da Agnes Helen 16 March 1895, aged 34
William Dalziel 16 Jan 1915, aged 80
Gadget
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The children that I have from the IGI for William and Agnes are:
1843 - Sarah (Agnes's mothe)
1844 - James (William's father)
1846 - Samuel (Agnes's father)
1850 - Margaret (William's mother)
(from census) c. 1852 - William
1856 - Catherine McBride
1859 - Mary Jane
1861 - Jannet
I know that you said you had them but the naming shows that they used the Scottish naming convention. Query - no daughter Agnes showing
Gadget
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The children that I have from the IGI for John Roy, Twynholm are:
10 October 1779 - Margaret
26 Mar 1786 - Keatrin
12 Nov 1790 - Isobell
26 May 1793 - Grizal
Scotland's People are likely to list more including the sons :)
Gadget
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wow Gadget.
you are so quick!!!
just read your messages it's fantastic to find all this info. I have re read it a few times , just off to have a lay down to think about where to start.
your'e a star
many thanks
kitty
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I'll work it out a bit for you over the weekend, Kitty. It came a bit thick and fast for me too :D
Gadget
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a little summary of the direct line so far:
William Dalziel b.c.1821, Twynholm d. 1909, aged 88
Parents - James Dalziel (b c. 1784 d. 1872, aged 88). and Margaret Roy (b.1779 d. 1864, aged 85)
Margaret Roy
Parents - John Roy (b.c. 1750 d. 1812, aged 62) and Agnes Dickson (b.c. 1755 d 1843, aged 88)
James Daziel's parents should be shown on his death cert of 1872 (shown as James Dalziel, shoemaker and Helen m.s. not given)*
Gadget
* James showing as born Co Down, Ireland on later censuses :-\
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James Dalziel (1784-1872) and Margaret Roy (1779-1864)
1841
Twynholm Village
James Dazell, 60-64, shoemaker, b. Ireland
Margaret, 60-64, b. Kirkcudbrightshire
William, 4,b. Kirkcudbrightshire
1851
High Village, Twynholm
James Dalziel, 66, Master shoemaker, employing 2 men, b. Ireland
Margaret, 67, b. Twynholm
William, 14, grandson, b. Twynholm
Robert McDonald, 44, lodger, Clogger - journeyman, b. Dumfries
1861
Private House, Twynholm village
James Dalziel, 75, Master shoemaker employing 2 men, b. County Down, ireland
Margret, 79, b. Twynholm
William, grdson, 23, shoemaker - journeyman, b. Twynholm
In 1871, James is with his son Thomas and a large family. I'll type this out separately.
Gadget
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Here we are:
1871
Twynholm village
Thomas Dalziel, 52, shoemaker, b. Twynholm
Isabella,w, 51, shoemaker's wife, b. Girthon
Elisabeth, d, 17, b. Twynholm
William, s, 15, shoemaker's apprentice
Maggie,d, 12, b. Twynholm
Agness H, d, 9, b. Twynholm
Thomas G, s, 5, b. Twynholm
James, father, 88, formerly shoemaker, b. Co Down, Ireland
William, nephew, 33, shoemaker, b. Twynholm
Hamilton Thomson, app, 17, app shoemaker, b. Balmaghie
This family is the one listed in the MI -
Thos Dalziel - 29 April 1899, aged 80. Wife - Isabella Robison 25 jan 1900, aged 81 and-
imo da Mary G d. 16 Feb 1857, aged 5, s. John d. 1 March 1858, aged 11, s. jas, 4 April 1869, aged 20, s. Thos G 23 Feb 1888, aged 21, s. Wm 27 March 1892, aged 36, da Agnes Helen 16 March 1895, aged 34
And nephew William might well be this one:
William Dalziel 16 Jan 1915, aged 80
Gadget
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Would you like more information on Agnes Telfer's line :)
Gadget
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The MI for Agnes's parents in Girthon has the following information:
Samuel Telfer - d. 17 Aug 1868, aged 74
wife - Sarah Scott - d. 20 Dec 1870, aged 76
children:
John - 20 Aug 1836, aged 18
Mary - 26 April 1845, aged 18
James - d. Dalkieth 18 Jan 1867, aged 35
Jane - d. Dumfries 12 April 1894, aged 71
Because Samuel and Sarah died after 1854, their death certs will be on the Scotlands People site and they can also be followed through the censuses.
Gadget
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The 1851 census will help to locate Samuel and Sarah's birth/bpts.
High Street, Gatehouse of Fleet, Girthon
Samuel Telfer, 55, shoemaker- master- employing 5 men, b. Buittle, Kirkcudbrightshire
Sarah, w, 55, b. Dumfries
Catherine, d, 22, b. Girthon
Samuel, s,17, shoemaker, b. Girthon
Gadget
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The most likely bpt. for Sarah Scott is this one (IGI - controlled extraction):
Sarah Scott, bpt. 19 March 1794, Dumfries. Father - William Scott.
There was also a sister, Anne, bpt. Dumfries 13 September 1797
and Isabella, bpt. Dumfries 13 March 1785
I'll see if I can find anything on a mother.
Gadget :)
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Sarah Scott's parents were William Scott, a blacksmith and Agnes Jack.
Gadget :)
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Samuel Telfer's parents were John Telfer and Jane Tait.
Gadget
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Dear Gadget,
I cannot thank you enough for all your efforts and help in my quest for the information regarding the Dalziel family tree .It is so much more than I hoped to find.
Will now try to build the tree on a very large piece of paper!!!
thanks again
regards
kitty
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You might need A1 paper or stick some sheets together :D
have you got a Family Tree program?
Gadget :)
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hi ,
this is my friends family tree. I have my own tree on genereunited but not to sure about a tree program. Do you put everyone down or just the parents./grandparents?
Can you reccomend a program
Could I do it on my p.c for someone else or would they have to have the program on their p.c?
thanks kitty
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Hi Kitty
There are lots of different programs - I use Family Historian - but here's a link to some freeware:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,255037.msg1419109.html#msg1419109
They would need to have the software on their machine to view it.
I put all my relatives on mine, not just the direct line but you can do whatever you wish - no rules :)
Good luck
Gadget
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Dear Gadget
I will have a think about it
thanks again
kitty
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Hi,
I'm directly related to William Dalziel and may have some intereting details for you. Please PM me if you'd like to know more as it would be interesting to see what the connection is :-)
Our family tree shows the children of William as:
James, Sarah, Samuel, Margaret, William, Mary Jane, Agnes Helen, Catherine, Janet
But I have no info about the Telfer family and would be interested.
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In fact looking at the family tree William is my great, great, great grand-father ;D
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will get back to you soon
many thanks
kitty
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I was just searching for some info on the Dalziel name for my mom when I ran across your thread. We may be related as I believe you were speaking of her mother Helen J Frankis granddaughter who went to live with them for a bit when she was a young girl. It would be interesting if it was her.
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Hi Kittygrant and welcome to Rootschat,
You may have noticed the posts on this thread date from 2008.
Both 'kitty5' and 'xpiranhax' have not been active on this site for a long time.
However your post and mine will send email alerts to their email address - should their email addresses still be valid/active , that is. Hopefully they are and you get a response.
Best wishes and good luck with your research,
Looby :)
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Thanks Looby. I did notice the date but thought what the heck lol. Maybe something will come of it 😊
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Thanks Looby. I did notice the date but thought what the heck lol. Maybe something will come of it 😊
Definitely Kittygrant ;D