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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: bhaven on Friday 16 May 08 20:12 BST (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can give me some direction on how to trace my husband's gr.grandparents. He believes Arthur originates from Scotland.
He has birth cert. 26 Mar 1884, of Ellen Lusk. Father is Arthur Lusk of Island Magee and Mother is Ellen Lusk formerly Fleck.
Marriage of Arthur and Ellen 1 June 1865 at Island Magee Second Presbyterian Church, District of Larne, Antrim.
Are there any census or parish records I can access?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jean
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Looks like the first child was born fairly soon after the marriage: Mary Jane Lusk 26 Aug.1865. IGI also lists James (1867), Agnes (1872), Abby Fleck (1875), James (1877), Charlotte (1880) but you need to check these as at least 1 is a submitted not extracted record.
First complete census for Ireland is 1901 and only small fragments for a few areas of earlier census records survive.
By 'parish records' do you mean church records? To find church records (if the exist) you need to know the family's religion and where they lived. You can check LDS catalogue online (www.familysearch.org) - do a place search- to see if the church records you need are there and if they cover the dates you want. If so, for a small fee you can order the microfilm from your local LDS library to be viewed there.
If Arthur Lusk came from Scotland you might be able to get census and other records. His father's name and occupation should be on marriage certificate but do you know his mother's name or when Arthur was born?
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I will try the local LDS library. They were Presbyterian. I didn't have the marriage cert. just entry details from Emerald Ancestors. We are in Canada but going to Scotland in June & I was hoping to find out the area that Arthur Lusk came from but perhaps that is wishful thinking. I will send for the cert. but thought I might speed the process up.
Thanks for the help, Jean
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An Arthur Lusk appears in Griffith's Valuation (1861/2) in the townland of Ballyharry, Islandmagee Parish, Co. Antrim.
Can't see him in earlier Scottish census records. If the family were Presbyterian they very likely were of an Ulster Scots background and might have said they were Scottish although they were living in Ireland for several generations.
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On the birth cert. of Arthur's daughter Ellen it says he is from Ballyharry. I couldn't make out what the name was but that is what it appears to be. I assume the story was passed down that they were Scottish but probably a few generations back. What is Griffith's Valuation?
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Griifith's Valuation:
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php
http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/browse/records/land/grva.htm
http://www.from-ireland.net/gene/griffithsval.htm
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Hi
1865 arthur LUSK ellen Antrim
1865 arthur ellen FLECK Antrim
Above Emerald Ancestors record
LUSK ARTHUR 1865 ARTHUR Antrim
FLACK ELLEN 1865 ROBERT Antrim
Arthur and Robert are fathers names
http://www.ancestryireland.com/index.php
Helena
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birth. WILLIAM LUSK 18-2-1870. BALLYCARRY, ANTRIM.
parents. ARTHUR LUSK & ELLEN FLACK.
regards mary.
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with regard to the quote of "ballyharry" are you sure this is correct because there is a village near islandmagee that is called ballycarry.
Plus just noticed today in a local bookshop (i live near ballyclare) there is a publication by the ordinance survey called memoirs of islandmagee (they also do other areas in northern ireland) for £7.50 and I think it is more a type of thing that talks about the parish and just the general area.
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Out of interest in the Islandmagee New Cemetery there are a few Flacks mentioned,
D96 - 97
David Flack died 30 Oct 1915 aged 56 ( buried at sea )
Margaret Flack died 20 Feb 1932 aged 75 ( wife )
Robert Alexander Flack died 16 May 1932 aged 44 ( son )
Catherine Flack died 20 July 1966 aged 74 ( daughter )
Margaret Jane Jones died 31 July 1957 aged 61 ( daughter )
Martha Pat Senior died 23 Dec 1959 aged 72 ( daughter )
They are recorded as Flecks but on the stones as Flack
D103
Miss Mary Flack buried 22 Feb 1953 ( Magheramorne House)
Mrs Mary Agnes Flack buried 11 July 1978
Alexander Flack buried 20 March 1979 aged 72
Mary + Alexander lived at 67 Islandmagee Road,Whitehead
Good hunting
June
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thanks for the help. Ballyharry was on the cert. but maybe a mistake.
Thanks too for the cemetery details. WE will be looking in to that too. We are at the beginning of his family research.
Jean
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Was in PRONI yesterday and came across these burials in Ballypriormore graveyard in the middle of Islandmagee :
James Flack died 1866 age 11
Eliza Flack died 1868 age 34
( husband James put upthe stone )
James Flack died 14 Dec 1883 age 89 ( teacher )
Ellen nee McCargo died 20 Dec 1896 age 75 ( wife )
Samuel (Nelson) died 11 May 1870 age 8 ( son )
( Son Robert M Flack put up the stone )
Best wishes
June
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Thanks June appreciate it. I have been away but we plan on going to Ireland in the spring so hopefully we will figure this out.
Jean
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I don't know if this will be of any use to you. My gt.gt.grandfather was James Flack born in 1794 his first wifes name was Eliza he had 7/9 children by that marriage his first daughters name was Frances [she was born 1824] who married into the Dick family of Islandmagee they married in 1848. His second wifes name was Eleanor shortened to Ellen they had 8 children of which I originate from [the James who was 11 was from the second marriage]. I know James and Ellen had a daughter Ellen born in and I know he had a daughter Ellen from his first marriage but don't know when she was born. His first child from his second marriage was called Sophia born in 1844. When his first children were getting married he was having his second lot of children so your Ellen could well have been from the first marriage. we are gradually getting more information about his two wives and all the children. We do know that from his first marriage the names were Fleck second marriage they were Flack [my maiden name. The names on the Islandmagee New Cemetery I am not sure about but they could all have been James grandchildren or gt. grandchildren will have to find that out. I was over in Islandmagee this October and went to the graves in Ballpriormore cemetery. Hope this helps you all a bit.
Rosemary.
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Hi Rosemary , Thanks so much for all the information. My husband does believe there is a connection and would like to be in touch further. I will send you a PM with his email address.
Jean
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Hi,
Ballyharry is correct. St. John's Presbyterian Church, Ballyharry, Islandmagee is the site of my family ancestral grave.
J.A.M.
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Hi Jean & Rosemary,
I've just come across your posts through a google search. James Fleck is also my gt gt grandfather (through his son David Porter Fleck 1853-1931). In case you don't see this post, i'll try and figure out how to send you both PM's
John
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Welcome- New members usually need to make 2/3 posts before using PM (personal message) system.
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thanks for the advice, I was wondering why the help messages didn't seem to match what I was seeing on screen.
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The fact that James Flack 1794-1883 married twice, he's my maternal great-great-great grandfather, has made my research extremely difficult. In my family tree, I had him married to Ellen McCargo Hawthorn, but this thew out of kilter those people I knew were my other ancestors, ie. William Dick 1834-? and Frances Flack 1824-? married in 1848. If Eliza was JF's first wife, please, does anyone have her maiden name and the dates of their marriage along with her birth and death? My great grandmother was Janet Dick 1854-1927, who was married to my great grandfather, Edmund Earwood 1858-1918. Thanking you all in anticipation. ;D
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Hi Strawman,
Your info ties in partly with Talltrees info on page 1 (nobody I know who has been interested in James Flack/Fleck has been able to contact Talltrees unfortunately) but not with mine and Bhaven's(??) info. James first wife Eliza (1824 - 24-6-1858) was only born in 1824 (according to our family records and the gravestonene) with Ellen McCargo being born in 1821. Our family records only have Jennifer, David and James as being Eliza and James children.
If Frances was a daughter it does suggest ....a third marriage prior to Eliza and Ellen.
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Hi wdyw,
Thanks for your help. I have to confess that the more I look into the Irish connection of my family, and the further back that I go, the more complicated it becomes. Frances' full name is known as being Frances Arabella Newcomb Stanus Flack. I've traced both Edmund Earwood and Janet Dick back through both Irish and English records (Census and others.) and these I would say are 100% accurate. Somewhere, I have copied census records from other members of her family, so I had no reason to doubt them. However, I hadn't realised that James Flack had been married more than once. However, a researcher on the My Heritage links mentions three women and two sons as being James and Ellenore's children. I could not fit Frances into this side of his family, and can only deduce that Frances was born to another of his wives(?). This is a mystery that I would like to solve.
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Frances Dick [ nee Fleck] was born to James Fleck/flack in 1824 and died a few years later in 1857 she was born to James with his first wife who we think might have had the name Eliza could have had the surname of one of Frances's middle names but not sure. They also had we think several more children two of whom were James the first one died young and the second took his name which was usual to do then. Frances married William Dick in 1848 and had two daughters Catherine in 1851 and Sophia a couple of years later. Found her tombstone in Islandmagee not easy to read, this that her mother might be buried in the same area but couldn't find it when we visited a couple of years ago. Have got more information on the Dicks as well.
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I wonder if anyone can give me some direction on how to trace my husband's gr.grandparents. He believes Arthur originates from Scotland.
He has birth cert. 26 Mar 1884, of Ellen Lusk. Father is Arthur Lusk of Island Magee and Mother is Ellen Lusk formerly Fleck.
Marriage of Arthur and Ellen 1 June 1865 at Island Magee Second Presbyterian Church, District of Larne, Antrim.
Are there any census or parish records I can access?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jean
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I wonder if anyone can give me some direction on how to trace my husband's gr.grandparents. He believes Arthur originates from Scotland.
He has birth cert. 26 Mar 1884, of Ellen Lusk. Father is Arthur Lusk of Island Magee and Mother is Ellen Lusk formerly Fleck.
Arthur Lusk, father Arthur Lusk, married 1st June 1865, Ellen Flack/Fleck, father Robert Fla(e)ck.
Children of Arthur and Ellen Lusk, all registered in Larne/Ballycarry district:
Mary Jane - 26 Aug 1865
William – 18 Feb 1870
Agnes – 22 Aug 1872
Abby (Abigail) – 18 Feb 1875
James - 25 May 1877
Charlotte - 18 April 1880 [died 13 Sept 1895]
Alexander – 05 Sep 1882 [died 21 Mar 1883]
Elen/Ellen – 25 Mar 1884
Annie - 03 Oct 1887
Arthur Lusk, senior, is listed in property Valuation books for Ballyharry, Island Magee, renting a house and small garden at 1B b, between circa 1861 and 1878, latter date is when name is overwritten in book and is likely a periodic revision date.
Island Magee - there is no record of any other Lusk names in Griffith’s Valuations circa 1861 nor are there any Lusk names in the Tithe Applotment books of 1834.
An Arthur Lusk died on 31 January 1875, aged 76 years – registered in Larne/Ballycarry district.
An Arthur Lusk listed at 1Bd, Ballyharry, renting a house from 1886 to 1891.
Apparently, the family then moved to Belfast and is listed at 12 Ritchie Street in 1901 census.
Arthur died between 1901 and 1911- there are 2 Arthur Lusk death registrations in this period, 1902 and 1908, but their quoted ages do not fit with that derived from the 1901 census.
The probable date of death is 01 September 1908, with age given as 57, as he was still listed in Ritchie St. in 1908 street directory. This age would mean that he was born 1851and he would thus have been 14 when he married! It is likely that his age was 67 – perhaps misinterpretation of age on certificate or by informant.
Daughter Mary Jane married Andrew Meneely/Meneilly, mariner, on 12 March 1891 and lived next door to her parents in 1901, per census (Maneely). Known children - Ellen 1891, John 1894-96, John 1896, Margaret (May) 1899, Arthur 1902, Andrew 1904.
Living at Mileriver Street (Maneely) in 1911 (census index names it as Mileriver Road!)
John was listed with Robert Lacey in 1911 census.
Daughter Abby/Abigail married William Charles Cain on 27 Dec 1906, daughter Helen Kathleen born 1910.
Daughter Annie married Robert Lacey/Lacy on 14 July 1908 and Ellen Lusk and remaining family members are listed with them at 62 Shore Road, Belfast, in 1911 census.
Daughter Ellen married William Green on 25 December 1911. Two possible children – Ellen 1913 and Mary 1914.
I wonder if anyone can give me some direction on how to trace my husband's gr.grandparents. He believes Arthur originates from Scotland.
He has birth cert. 26 Mar 1884, of Ellen Lusk. Father is Arthur Lusk of Island Magee and Mother is Ellen Lusk formerly Fleck.
Marriage of Arthur and Ellen 1 June 1865 at Island Magee Second Presbyterian Church, District of Larne, Antrim.
Are there any census or parish records I can access?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jean
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Hi
Not sure if this will help you
Esq At Ballywalter Ireland aged 66 years Mrs Cairns relict of the late Surgeon Cairns of Donaghadee and last surviving daughter of the late Captain Arthur Lusk who cirq eumnnvigated the globe with Lord Anson
From 1817 register of deaths. The Scots Magazine google books on page 99 if link doesn't work
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=dFs3AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA99&lpg=RA1-
PA99&dq=arthur+lusk+of+scotland&source=bl&ots=u4SOe_lwVG&sig=mbBTlPeOVvYaI1O1yPHQdb8pYOc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7aRRVeYeyYDyBcjEgMAE&ved=0CB0Q6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=arthur%20lusk%20of%20scotland&f=false
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"Apparently, the family then moved to Belfast and is listed at 12 Ritchie Street in 1901 census."
12 is the enumerator’s number for the household and may not be the street number of the house.
Online tree with much the same information that you have- http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lusk-301
See also this topic-
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Arthur Lusk and Ellen Fleck (or Flack) were married in June 1865 in Islandmagee 2nd Presbyterian Church. Arthur may have been a seaman and his father was Arthur as well. I've heard through the family that the younger Arthur died at about age 65 with a stroke. Ellen's father was Robert Fleck, of Islandmagee.
…
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Re my pervious reply a bit more info if it helps although this is earlier than what you are looking at
On the death of Captain Arthur Lusk Capt Arthur Lusk was born at Holy wood near Belfast 19th March 1718 He went to sea at 11 years of (There is a bit more info on line)
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=1HMCAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=captain+arthur+lusk&source=bl&ots=plb_dMzwBa&sig=_249JTYzCPq2elDmt6HSXnzULXs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9bJRVZLHB6G1mwXlyYGIDg&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=captain%20arthur%20lusk&f=false
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"Apparently, the family then moved to Belfast and is listed at 12 Ritchie Street in 1901 census."
12 is the enumerator’s number for the household and may not be the street number of the house
As I said, 12 is the enumerator's number for the household.
Ritchie St. off York Road
25. Lusk, A., labourer
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/qrcomplete1901.htm
1907- http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/qrcomplete1907.htm
1908- http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/qrcomplete1908.htm
Remember that directories were often compiled and printed before the date on them to make them seem more up-to-date (i.e. 1908 directory compiled & printed 1907)
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A William Flack died in 1897 of which an Ellen Lusk was present. William Flack was a sailor from Islandmagee. Sophia Flack was his daughter. Any connection?
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William Fleck death record not marriage ! If these Flacks/Flecks are connected they married into our family and lived in Belfast at one point
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Marriage of Ellen Lusk and William Green 1911 Greencastle - father Arthur Lusk Deceased
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Death 1908 Arthur Lusk aged 57 - 25 Ritchie Street.
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Death 1908 Arthur Lusk aged 57 - 25 Ritchie Street.
Note the informant on the death record for Arthur.......his daughter Abby Cain.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05489/4537388.pdf
Abby Flack Lusk married William Charles Cain on 27th December 1906 in Belfast.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10141/5689799.pdf
One of the informants was Ellen Flack Lusk (her sister?).
KG
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Birth of Helen Kathleen Cain on 9th August 1910.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01552/1627621.pdf
Probable marriage of Helen Cain to Samuel McFerran 8th July 1937 Newtownabbey
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
KG
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birth. WILLIAM LUSK 18-2-1870. BALLYCARRY, ANTRIM.
parents. ARTHUR LUSK & ELLEN FLACK.
Birth of William 1870 at Mullaghdubh (sic), Islandmagee.........probably Mullaghdoo.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03364/2233720.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-lower/islandmagee/mullaghdoo/
Informant Jane Lusk is from Ballyharry, just to the north.
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-lower/islandmagee/ballyharry/
KG