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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Jay Cee on Wednesday 28 May 08 12:47 BST (UK)
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My Greatgrandmother was MARTHA SMITH (born abt 1872) and came from a clan of Gypsy's named SMITH who lived in the Nottinghamshire or Staffordshire area. They were headed by ESAU and HENTY SMITH who may have been her parents or grandparents. The group were about 50 in number and owned their own land. Does anyone recognise this family?
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Hi Jay Cee,
Where abouts in Staffordshire/Nottinghamshire were your Smiths from?
I have Smith ancestors who moved from Staffordshire to Duffield to Aberdare to Duffield to Mansfield to Nottingham :o so have often wondered about them although they had settled in Nottm by 1861.
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Wikipedia has a mention of them, and says that Esau died in 1901, aged 92, and Henty in 1907:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Patch_Park
If you search for "Esau Smith" and "Black Patch" you'll find quite a bit of information. Also on Google Books there are some other mentions.
http://romanygenes2.webeden.co.uk/#/census19012/4527026664 has a list of some people who were at Black Patch Park for the 1901 census. The widow Lavinia Smith, aged 91, may be Henty.
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There's also a good book about the Black Patch Gypsy community by local historian Ted Rudge called 'Brumroamin'. Try Googling for stockists.
You can read about the book and its author plus see some photos of Esau's family here:
www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/your_community/2003/09/romany/brumroamin.shtml
Sharon
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Thank you both for your help. Is it possible to find out if Henty SMITH had children, if so, when. My Greatgrandmother, Martha SMITH, born about 1872 and may have been one of her children. Any clues? Jay Cee
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hi jay cee
just found this info, but unsure if any help to you or not,......
esau (king of black patch) married sentinia smith (henty queen of black patch), had children eso smith d; 1924 staffordshire, cintamenta b;1848c arden wks, john buried 1909n aged 70yr uplands wks. not much unless it is your ancestors in which case every bit helps. :-\
amanda
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Thanks aa1webb,
The Martha SMITH I am looking for is probably too young to be Henty's child. I have a likely record of a Martha who was married in 1889 aged 17 years and had a father called John SMITH. Could it be Henty's son John that you mentioned? Did he have any children? Can you tell me what the shorthand "buried 1909n aged 70 yrs uplands wks" means. Where is Uplands? Hope you can help.
Regards Jay Cee
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Esau Smith b.cir 1809 died 1901 Jan-March Qtr West Bromwich District GRO index 6b 519 aged 92.
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hello jay cee,
really sorry but i didnt get a notice from here to say you replied so had no idea you were waiting for a reply. i will look through all my old junk and see what bits of paper i can find :D
might not be till tomorrow now, but truly sorry for delay
be a quick as family will let me be ;D
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Thanks Amanda,
My email system has been "down" for the last 3 or 4 days so I am now playing catch-up too. Are you related to Esau and Henty by any chance because, according to my family history as passed down, I am, albeit distantly. The family story is that Esau was given the deeds to Black Patch but after he died they were burnt along with his caravan in the traditional way of the Romanies. The land then passed on to the "Crown".
Regards Jay Cee
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I have the death certificate for Esau Smith, King of Black Patch. He was a Retired Horse Dealer who died on 4 March 1901 aged 92 years. His death was registered by an "E. SMITH" who was present at the death in Black Patch. She was his daughter-in-law. Does anyone know the full name of E. SMITH and which of Esau and Henty's sons she was married to? Did she have any children of her own?
Jay Cee
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found eso smith son of easu & henty married to harriett smith/holland, their child, erenest smith married ellen gorman, both of these would then be an e.smith!
have i said this before......it sounds familiar?
also a listing of esau smith child of miah smith 1816 brockhall, parents listed as jeremiah/rhoda gypsies if no fixed abode, (nfa)
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(*) Moderator Comment: References to a living person removed at that person's request.
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Hi,
I am looking for a Smith family from this area. I think they were canal boat people. Is it likely canal boat families would also have been gypsies?
Andcarred
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Thanks aa1webb for your useful info.
I think the 2xE.Smiths you mention would have described themselves as grandson and granddaughter-in-law of Esau.
Working backward down my tree, my g-grandmother was Martha Smith whose father is shown as John Smith (coal miner) on her wedding cert in 1889. You told me that Esau and Henty had another son called John. Do you know if this John married and had children? If he did he may be our link back to Esau.
Will look up the book you mention, I am still waiting for a copy of Rudge's Brumroamin to come through but I can identify photos from him of Black Patch with photos we have in the family.
There is a suggestion that our family of Gypsys' Smith worked the canals. There was (or is) a canal passing near to Black Patch and there are stories that my g-g-grandfather had a site near the canal outside Bulwell (Notts) and the canals outside Luton (Beds) are mentioned; however, I am not an expert on the Gypsey way of life. Can anyone else help?
Jay Cee
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morning jaycee,
i have no idea who he married im afraid. sorry about that.
i can tell you that easu had siblings if thats any help and his parents, unless you already have this info, in which case it wont be of any use ;D
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Thanks aa1webb for trying.
Yes, if you know the parentage of Esau and his siblings that would be a great help and would take us back another generation.
Also, do you have the marriage details of Esau and Henty? (ie where and when?).
Do you think that Eso (son of Esau) is short for or a mis-spelling of Esau? We have another Esau who fits the bill who emigrated to the USA with a brother and returned at the end of his life to die in Luton C.1907.
Regards, Jay Cee
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thats ok.
sorry no dates for their marriage or anything.
esau's parents: rhoda boswell & nehemiah (maia/omiah/jeremiah/miriam) (all alias used) smith. father said to be ''horse thief transported after 1850 to tasmania'' no other details for them.
sentinia's parents: sarah boswell (sister of above) to woodfine smith married 05/09/1811in hillmorton wks. witness jane Iifl.
a note on the page reads; decendants of woodfine and maia had 12 cousin marriages. i would presume that this means that the cousins, the children of both brothers all maried each other.
sorry i cant help any more but im sure if you ever get to read the smith gypsy genealogoies then you will find out more, as to be honest there are many, many smiths, all from different lines. this info above is only what i have copied from his book so i do not know how exact the info is and to what use it will be to you. happy hunting jaycee
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hello;you mentioned smiths of Nottingham, well i have family, smiths of Harby in nottingham, and we have an extensive family tree; we were the smiths tailors in nottingham and london, and smiths jewellers are related. I do not have the family tree with me, my mum has copies of it. And we are all romany/spanish gypsy heritage. the Smiths of Nottingham are related to the Boothes of Nottingham. It is my Grandad who is most well known amongst the Gypsies of Nottingham, Eric Smith from Harby...There is a Martha Smith in our family tree, but i will have to check with my Mums family tree, and double check who your Martha Smith is...the thing is, the Gypsies did get their children christened, but sometimes it seems like you come to a dead end, then only to realise that they church hopped,lol. xx
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Found on familysearch.org 1881 Census
7, River Side, Attercliffe Cum Darnall, York
Easy (Esau?) Smith Head Unmarried 60yrs Salby, Leics Gypsy Hawker
Susannah Smith Other 56yrs Selson, Derby Gypsy Hawker
Sara A. Smith Daughter Unmarried 17yrs Bradford, York Gypsy Hawker
Patience Smith Widow 36yrs Wadsley, York Gypsy Hawker
James Smith Grandson 14 yrs Kirkstall, York Gypsy Hawker
Nipton Smith Grandson 8yrs Brotherton, York Gypsy
Selina Smith Granddaughter 6yrs Sherburn, York Gypsy
Back of 7, River Side
Isaac Smith Head Unmarried 26yrs Retford, Nottingham Gypsy Hawker
Mary A. (last name listed as Charlotte but both listed as W for Widow or Wife and U for Unmarried so maybe they were living as man and wife) 21yrs Kirton in Lindsey, Lincoln Gypsy Hawker
Annie Smith Daughter 8mths Carbrook, York Gypsy
Taperty Smith Mother Widow 60yrs No listing for Birthplace Gypsy Hawker
Rabbi Smith Brother Unmarried 18yrs Doncaster, York Gypsy Hawker
More to follow........
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More from familysearch.org 1881 Census....
No2 Waggon (Gypsy) River Street
William Smith Head Married 20yrs Bradford, York Gypsy Hawker
Sophia Smith Wife Married 19yrs Leics Gypsy Hawker
Priscilla Smith Daughter 11mths Carbrook, York Gypsy
9, River Stree
Edward Smith Head Married 55yrs no birthplace listed Hawker
Rachel Smith Wife Married 55yrs no birthplace listed Hawker
Edward Smith Son Unmarried 18yrs Finley, York Hawker
11, River Street
N. Smith Head Unmarried Female 24yrs Houghton Pannell, York - Found on Family Search Bap. of Flora (02/01/1881 at Carbrook, Yorks) mother named as Nonisse - no father named
Harriet Smith Daughter 6yrs Bolsover, Derby
Darner Smith Daughter 5yrs Carbrook, York
Joe Smith Son 2yrs Carbrook, York
Flora Smith 3mths Carbrook, York
more to come.....
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From familysearch.org 1881 Census.....
Back of 9, River Street
William Carter Head Married 35yrs Burton-on-Trent Travelling Grinder (Hawker)
Barnett Carter Wife 35yrs Mettam, Lincoln
Mary A. Carter 16yrs Ilkeston, Nottingham
William A. Carter 10yrs Burton-on-Trent
Christ R. Carter Male 7yrs Nottingham
Joshua Carter 5yrs DArby
Silvey Carter Female 2wks Carsbrook, York
No 3 Waggon River Street
Samuel Elliot Head Married 65yrs Willoughby, Notts Hawker (Gipsies)
Eliz. Elliot Wife 65yrs Leeds Hawker (Gipsies)
Emily Elliot Daughter 16yrs Clown, Derby (Gipsies)
Lillia Elliot Daughter 12yrs Rampton, Wocester
Hope this information is of use to someone.... :)
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Hi just read your message about the Smiths from Harby. I am William Smith from Harby. The eldest son of Eric Smith who was born in 1905. They were Tailors in Nottingham & London. I also have two sisters and one brother. I am also related to the Booth family.
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hi, I'm randolph smith son of eric smith harby village notts and my mother beryl carlin bulwell notts and brother of bill above.
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Hi everyone,
was just wondering if anyone has any info on a smith family living in the falsgrave area of scarborough. William smith born in durham in 1793 was living in falsgrave and was a potman. married to elizabeth rowbottom he had two daughters prudence who was married to hannibal swales and sarah who married william wharton in falsgrave. Would love to know more about any of these family members but dont know much about william smith background.
regards
Johnny
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hi, jay cee, just saw the thread. sorry i cannot help with your searching. i have smith relations myself. but they are such a large romany family that they cover the whole of the uk. and using the same first names over and over is not a help. thats one of the reasons we have nick names. as you may know. one old traveller i knew, sadly dead now. was elija varey,a nice man. his nick name was running dog! bit like the indians? is it not. anyway there is and was a lot of marrying into and out of the gypsy familys with gorgios, my uncle wed a show woman surname emmerson, a very old show family, both dead now. with the canal folk it would be the same. if they had contact with romany folki, in fact any group who stayed on the camps of travellers, or around them, did/do intermarry with non romany people. it is one of the reasons that surnames change, and records can be hard to find. any way cushty bok. good hunting. rob .g
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Hi just read your message about the Smiths from Harby. I am William Smith from Harby. The eldest son of Eric Smith who was born in 1905. They were Tailors in Nottingham & London. I also have two sisters and one brother. I am also related to the Booth family.
hello. i think i may be related to you if your eric smith was the son of rose & enoch smith of melton mowbray leics. please get back to me if this is the case. thanks. lynne.
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Got Swales Cunningham in my family tree, as well as Smiths from Leics
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hi there. i don't recognise those surnames but that's not to say there's no connection. can you list any smith names and dates etc. i am also related to the booths.
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Researching my grandson's family I also found a Smith family. Not too sure if they were gypsies but family lore said they once owned or should have owned Black Patch Park. The story goes that there were deeds and the deeds had been seen but were thought to have been burned along with the caravan when Henty (I think) died, and the family lost out. It's covered in Ted Rudge's book which I was lucky enough to get at the library.
He has Benjamin Smith born abt 1825 son of Joseph & ?Sarah lived Dudley. Benjamin mar Ellen Oakley 1845 and had Joseph, Sarah. Prudence, Ellen, Comfort Alice and Benjamin. My grandson's link was through Ellen.
The Oakley family were from Sedgley near Dudley the children had some very unusual names eg Kerenpuck, Zenbabel and Zenish.
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hello again. thanks for the reply and info, however, i don't think we have the same families here. my lot were centred around melton mowbray and areas in leicestershire.
the unusual names include: napthali, amadine, boyrementa (aka wyrementa, byrementa, ryadunty etc etc). so if you come across anything like that i'd be interested to know. i've traced this side of the family back to circa 1770 but can't get back any further through parish registers.
happy hunting. best wishes, lynne french
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Hi,
I'm trying to trace the Smith family travelling around Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire area.
On 1871 census they are on Land Society's field Sneinton Nottinghamshire.
On 1881 census they are camped in a Gypsys Van, Pickwell Melton Mowbray Leic.
Head John Smith bn 1834 Turlangton Leic
Wife Maria Smith bn 1835/9 Scalford Leic
Does this fit in with your family at all???
Many Thanks
Kazi
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Looking for Tranetta Smith born 1863 Leicestershire.
Married Thomas Smith 1894.
Need to find her birth and parents.
Any info. please?
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Hi
Do you have any other info on your Thomas Smith? Birth Year - or childrens names they may have had?
Kazi
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My family are smiths from the midlands and Leicester Northampton there's a lot of wisdom smiths in my family my grandads name was dick / Richard smith but they moved to Barnsley Yorkshire about 50 year ago xx
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Hi,
1907 death of Henty Sertenius Smith age 97 Queen of the Gypsies who for a quarter of a century made her home on the Black Patch Handsworth the clans of the Smith and Clayton formed the tribe they sold Clothes-Pegs,Baskets and Tin goods her husband Easu had died ten years before and a year before her death the tribe had been forcibly removed but Henty was allowed to stay she died in her Caravan and was buried in Easu's Grave about two hundred of her children,grandchildren and great grandchildren attended her funeral as ell as many othr Gypsies her caravan and belongings she had requested be burnt to stop family disputes a fight is the last thing a true Romany Gypsy ever wishes, if it is of any use to you
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Hello My husbands 4th great is Sentenia and Esau Smith I have done a large tree. They was from Northampton area and travelled to the Black Patch Birmingham. Anyone connected to the family would love you to join our family FB tree. :)
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Hello My husbands 4th great is Sentenia and Esau Smith I have done a large tree. They was from Northampton area and travelled to the Black Patch Birmingham. Anyone connected to the family would love you to join our family FB tree. :)
a yes they were my great grandad was butty /sam smith and he moved from north hampton to birmingham
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Hello Aleis Sally
So you say Samuel smith you mean esau smith brother. I have done the fb and is going well, welcome to join, you will find it very interesting. woodfine smith.
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Hello everyone who wants to know more about my 4th Greats Sentenia and Esau Smith. I have got the family tree done and anyone who wants any help please contact. My DNA was H1A PLUS, which means that my family came from southern Asia, Sentenia and Esau was cousins. Esau parents was Nehemiah and Rhoda Boswell. Sentenia parents was Woodfine smith and Sarah Boswell, sister to Rhoda. My Romany route is amazing on my tree, as my greats both romany great grandfather is from the Thomas Smith And Sarah Smith who is vagrants from North Marsden who sons are jasper Smith moses Smith ect. Would like to know if anyone is the same match to me on my DNA, and wants anyhelp with the tree If the same as mine.
Steve :)
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I'm trying to find out about a Rebecca smith who was born around 1845 in Milton Surrey. Well in one census she say Milton and another says Epsom. Her birthdate is a guess as we can't find her baptism anywhere!!! In 1901 we have her with her other half ( can't find marriage ) Joseph James and their children . If anyone has a Rebecca from that time please let me know, we've been searching for years !!
Becky :)
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Hi, my graat grandfather was Tommy Smith the son of Sentenia ( Henty) from black patch Smethwick, would like to see my full family tree if anyone has it. My nan was Lilly Smith daughter of Tommy.
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I'm interested in Smith/ Holland gypsies. My great grandmother Annie Hadwin born 1875 Leigh, was presumed to be Romany. She and my great grand father Charles Halsall took in a boy called William Holland in Southport born in 1925. Annie's mother was Jane Smith from Kendal born 1837. I have found a family that fits but no Romany links as yet. There was mention of links to a Gypsy Queen. I wonder if Henty Smiths family moved anywhere up to Kendal. ??
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Hi, my graat grandfather was Tommy Smith the son of Sentenia ( Henty) from black patch Smethwick, would like to see my full family tree if anyone has it. My nan was Lilly Smith daughter of Tommy.
Hi Philip
The Romany and Traveller Family History Society has published a book containing the family tree of Sentenia. It's called 'The Family Tree of Woodfine Smith' by Josephine Tombs and you can find out more about it and how to order here: http://rtfhs.org.uk/publications/gypsy-families/
Sharon
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ok well i know nothing because i was adopted , so i have a list of names from my dna ,
Surname
Smith (39)
Brown (28)
Johnson (17)
Williams (17)
Jones (16)
Taylor (15)
Lewis (13)
Martin (13)
Wilson (13)
Clark (12)
Davis (12)
Green (12)
Anderson (11)
Carter (10)
Evans (10)
Scott (10)
Wright (10)
King (9)
Miller (9)
Price (9)
, my dna has been looked at by a roma woman that says my percentage is over 30, i am just lost , my family names also include Rockley , Lane , Harvey, we are largely from nottinghamshire , Staffordshire and derbyshire as far as i know , but looking like both my mothers sides had Romany, her mothers mother was the Harvey , her mother a brown , i am so lost , i feel so alone , i know i got a huge family , romany always do , but the closest relative i have found is a 3rd cousin and he does not answer his messages , please if these names and the areas can help someone help me i will be so happy , just to come home to my people , BTW I WAS SNATCHED INTO CARE IN THE 1960'S
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Burto, i have many of those names , my mother was Jannette Carrie Rockley, my family names are ...
Smith (39)
Brown (28)
Johnson (17)
Williams (17)
Jones (16)
Taylor (15)
Lewis (13)
Martin (13)
Wilson (13)
Clark (12)
Davis (12)
Green (12)
Anderson (11)
Carter (10)
Evans (10)
Scott (10)
Wright (10)
King (9)
Miller (9)
Price (9)
guess we are related , you got your dna done ?
Swift , Matthews, Price , Clarke , Rockley, Dewey, Turton, Wild, Nottingham
Aldread, Brentnall, Cowlishaw Derbyshire
Elliot, The Borders/Nottingham FWK industry
Hartopp, NW Leicester (Barkby and surrounds).
Smith Bilston Staffordshire
Bennett, Calary? Ireland
Johnson, USA
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Hello everyone who wants to know more about my 4th Greats Sentenia and Esau Smith. I have got the family tree done and anyone who wants any help please contact. My DNA was H1A PLUS, which means that my family came from southern Asia, Sentenia and Esau was cousins. Esau parents was Nehemiah and Rhoda Boswell. Sentenia parents was Woodfine smith and Sarah Boswell, sister to Rhoda. My Romany route is amazing on my tree, as my greats both romany great grandfather is from the Thomas Smith And Sarah Smith who is vagrants from North Marsden who sons are jasper Smith moses Smith ect. Would like to know if anyone is the same match to me on my DNA, and wants anyhelp with the tree If the same as mine.
Steve :)
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Hi Steve could i have your Email if possible please or i can give you mine if not i understand my mum was a double Smith and my dad is half Romany
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My Greatgrandmother was MARTHA SMITH (born abt 1872) and came from a clan of Gypsy's named SMITH who lived in the Nottinghamshire or Staffordshire area. They were headed by ESAU and HENTY SMITH who may have been her parents or grandparents. The group were about 50 in number and owned their own land. Does anyone recognise this family?
I might just add this couple as they are Smiths from Staffordshire?
Joseph Esau Smith of the Romany encampment Chase Terrace died 1925 buried Wilnecote cemetery, Staffordshire and possibly his wife Harriet Smith (wife od Esau Smith, a travelling hawker) who died 12th Octber 1907 also buried at Wilnecote cemetey, Staffordshire.
Chase Terrace is an area in the town of Burntwood in Staffordshire, England.
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Hi Steve could i have your Email if possible please or i can give you mine if not i understand my mum was a double Smith and my dad is half Romany
Hello everyone, Esau & Sentinia are my great great grand parents, my line is through May (Sarah May) lots of mystery about who my nan's father was, she was Alma Sophia and her step father was George Hambleton. She took on the name but he wasn't her biological father.
I have so many smiths, Boswells and love ridges in my family it makes my head spin!!!!
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My Greatgrandmother was MARTHA SMITH (born abt 1872) and came from a clan of Gypsy's named SMITH who lived in the Nottinghamshire or Staffordshire area. They were headed by ESAU and HENTY SMITH who may have been her parents or grandparents. The group were about 50 in number and owned their own land. Does anyone recognise this family?
Yes, I recognise them, Henty & Esau are my great great great grandparents through their granddaughter May (Sarah May)
I’ve been searching for my nan’s father for years, it’s a family secret... her step father is George Hambleton but her real father is a mystery. I wonder if anyone here knows???
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Just found this site.
I have been brought up to believe that my Great,great grandmother was the last of the gypsy queens. She left the Romany to "live under brick" and in order to preserve her line she commissioned a plate with her maiden name "Martha Smith" which is handed down to the eldest daughter, My mother was born in 1921 and it makes my great great grandmother about the 1870's.
My parents are from south Yorkshire and by coincidence I now live in that region and am a little confused as I have discovered a grave in a church in Beighton which says this is the grave of the last gypsy queen Lucretia Smith?
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Or this one?
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/feb/13/maggie-smith-bendell-romany-gypsies
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We do not have any Gypsy kings or queens.That is just a myth to maybe recieve better treatment form non gypsy folk.We do however respect our Elders male and female and they take a important part in our communities.Re \lucretia Smith a did a lot of research on her a while back and it was endorsed by robert dawson.I will see if i can find it tomorrow and post it here.
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Hi CathB,
its a long time since we wrote , i hope you are well, looking forwards to reading your research
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Gary 1959....LUCRETIA SMITH AND NEICE MATILDA BOSWELL
The claim that they were mother and daughter doesn't appear in the parish register entry for the burials, or on the gravestone. It comes sixty five years later in the 1909 book of gravestone monuments 'Epitaphia' and I think is either the author drawing his own conclusion from the stone or reporting stories that had grown up in the village. I don't think too much store can be put on those, as Lucretia is also supposed to haunt the graveyard!I think they were actually niece and aunt, though possibly if Matilda was in a relationship with one of her cousins, Lucretia may have been mother in law too. Neither died at Beighton, Matilda died in Lythe, Yorkshire, 110 miles away and Lucretia at Halton, Cheshire, 70 miles away, so both were transported some distance to be buried there, why I'm not sure.These are Lucretia's children:Hannah Smith, daughter of Josiah Smith and Lucretia, baptised at Cadeby, Leicestershire on 21st December 1802.Phenix Smith, son of Josiah Smith and Lucretia, baptised at Thurnby, Leicestershire on 3rd August 1806Josiah Smith, son of Josiah Smith and Lucretia, baptised at Saltby, Leicestershire on 2nd April 1809.Senah Smith, daughter of Josiah Smith and Lucretia, baptised at Market Overton, Rutland, on 9th May 1811.Jenny daughter of Josiah Smith 'Gipsy' and Lucretia , no settled abode, baptised at Long Stratton, Norfolk on 27th March 1814.Rhoda Smith, daughter of Josiah Smith 'tinker' and Lucretia Gipsies no settled abode, born 4th November, baptised at Baytham, Suffolk 17th November 1816.Sarah Smith, daughter of Josiah Smith and Lucretia, baptised at Monks Kirby, Warwickshire on 6th February 1820.These make it unlikely the age on her burial is correct. I think she is actually Lucy Boswell, daughter of Robert Boswell and Lucy, baptised 20th December 1780 at Thornage, Norfolk. Robert Boswell was born circa 1735 in Wiltshire and buried at Loders, Dorset in January 1806 (according to Frances Hindes Groomes 1880 book In Gipsy Tents a monument was put up there on his grave to the 'King of the Gypsies'). Robert's wife appears on all other records as Lucretia/Lucresey and they had been together since about 1760. He was polygamous and had taken on a second, much younger partner, Mary/Ann around 1776 and travelled with both women. In January of the same year Lucy/Lucretia was baptised, Mary/Ann baptised a son with Robert, Edward Boswell at Kilmington, Somerset, he was Matilda's father and was also buried as a 'King of the Gypsies' in the 1850's in Devon.
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Hi All,
Is this still active?
My great grand mother was Adelaide Hall and I believe she was part of Easu and Sentenia's clan. From the 1901 census of John and Caroline Smith (John is Easu and Sentys son), Adeliade was their grand daughter.
How ever I am really struggling to find who her parents were and was wondering if any one had any information?
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Hi, is it johns parents you’re looking for.. if so do you have any dates for him, where are they encamped in 1901?
I can have a look about tomorrow.
Kazi
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Hi,
Thanks for the reply
Its actually Adelaide Hall (born 1900) parents I am trying to work out, but its prooving very difficult
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Do you have the place you think Adelaide was born. Or know any siblings or parents names? Ant info you have would help and I’ll have a look. Kazi
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long post about Adelaide & family here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=847168.0
We're pretty sure mother has been identified, but no birth reg or baptism as yet.
;)
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My great great grandmother was Martha smith, i believe last of the gypsy queens out here in south yorkshire who left to marry under brick but I have the plate she bequeathed to eldest daughter with her name on
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Smith's in Nottinghamshire on my mother's side...occupation on census docs of several male family members is 'Tinsmith'. Has anyone got further info on where I can find family trees /records for the Nottinghamshire Smith's please, so I can try and find out if there's a link? Thanks.
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Bulwell area Nottingham
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My great grandmother was Martha Hallam (nee Smith) born 1872 died 1946
Family history passed down suggest she was descended from the Smith's who lived on the Black Patch.
Her father was John Smith (b:1833, d:1896) . Married to Martha Mason.
Her grandfather was Sidney Smith, and grandmother was Hannah Smith (nee Key or Keye)
After that the records dry up.
Family stories link them to King Ezra and Queen Henty of the Black Patch.
Can anyone fill in the gaps please.
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Jay Cee said and grandmother was Hannah Smith (nee Key or Keye)
Much later but Josephine Tombs' Woodfine Smith Family Tree book shows a Rose KEY marrying Felix/Phoenix CLAYTON Handsworth St James in October 1904. Felix is son of Francis Clayton and Anselina LOVELL.
Francis is son of Trezi Ann SMITH and William Clayton and Trezi Ann the daughter of Woodfine Smith.
Might be worth looking at this Rose KEY to see if you can associate her family with your Keys in earlier times.
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Where in England was Sidney born and what year?
Thanks,
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Hello I am a Smith I am a traveller 3 out of my 4 grandparents were Smiths apparently all from the same root. My father's parents were first cousins ie 2 brother's children descendants of Jasper Smith son of Thomas Smith and Sarah Taylor.
My maternal grandad also a Smith was descended from Woodfine Smith and Sarah Boswell as far as i have worked out Woodfine is the grandson of Thomas and Sarah and therefore the nephew of Jasper.
I have read all available paperwork that i can find but i do need some help on my mums dads line in respect to his mum Vira who also a Smith was the daughter of who? she had a sister called Sophie who married a Holland and in some way i cannot fathom she had a Neice called Mizzy and 2 nephews named George (Bung) and Jabez who was married to Violet nee Egerton.
Granny Vira also had 2 childrren before marrying my great grandad Tom to 1 of the Hollands
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Any one got William Smith and polly marry Arnold in there family tree use to stay with family on ashtree Lane kent thanks if you have can you email me garyg18@googlemail.com