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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Amberglow on Friday 30 May 08 13:25 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone, I am new to RootsChat so help me if you can. I have been trying to trace info. about one of my ancestors for a very long time. All I know is his name, William Solen born 1834 in London, married to Margaret Bouchard. The only info. I have is from the various Census. If anyone has this name in their tree I would be very interested to know.
Many thanks.
Amberglow
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Welcome to Rootschat Amberglow ;D
Do you have William and Margaret marriage certificate? It would tell you the
name of William father, which would help.
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Welcome, Amberglow.
It would also help if you let us know which censuses you have already seen, so we don't go over old ground.
Do you know where in London he was born?
meles
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Welaome to RootschaT Amberglow.
In the various census that you have traced William Solen, has his name always been transcribed 'Solen"?
If you could post the census details it may help those helping you.
Joy
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Hiya, Many thanks for the various replies. His name has always come up as Solen. I cannot find any marriage references for them in any of the records books. He was born in Bethnal Green, Middlesex, London, as was Margaret and all the children. I have accessed all the Census from 1841 to 1901
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I found this on another site dated July 13, 2003
"William Solen was born 1834. He married Margaret Bouchard probably in Wayne Co. Michigan. They had 5 children before moving to England late 1800s."
It also gives email address of researcher:
http://www.ancestralfindings.com/surnames/surnamepost/surnames_s_516.htm
Don't know if that makes any sense to you? But you have them in all census? Curious ...
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1881 census RG11/0406/113/5 6 Essex Place London
William Solen aged 47 BootMaker born Shoreditch
Margaret wife age 45 born Shoreditch
Benjamin 18 All Children born Shoreditch
Emma 16
Jane 13
James 11
John 9
Margaret 2
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Hi Ruskie, Yes, I found that info. a long time ago. The family is the same one but it is strange that William, Margaret and all the children were born in the UK. How they got to be born in Michigan, I don't know. I have Margaret's birth certificate and the birth records of the children in the BMD Indexes of 1837 onwards, so I believe the UK births are the correct ones. As I cannot go back beyond 1837 this is where the prolem is, finding out William's parents names. On my Family Tree he is the only one I haave a problem with. If you know where I can find records before 1837 it would be a help. I have also searched the Mormon site but to no avail.
Basically, all BMD Records from 1837 have been checked (although his birth was before that so that can't be found}
All Census from 1841 to 1901 I have access to, so only please look in places other than these so you don't waste your time.
Regards
Amber
Amber
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Hi Amber,
If you have him on 1841 Census is he not with his parents ?? As he would only be 7/8 years old , or am i missing something here.??
Can you ref No of census you have him on please.
Yvonne ;D
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Hi Amberglow ;D
Even though you do already have the Census - it helps us "lookers/helpers" if we can see the details too - It helps us form a picture and a trail, and who knows - someone may spot a 'clue' that has been missed or use it to confirm or discount some other find...?
If you have the Census details to hand, perhaps you wouldn't mind writing them up for us?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Do you have Benjamin Solen birth certificate Dec Qtr 1862 Bethnal Green?
I was just wondering if William may of been married twice and both ladies with the first name Margaret. ??? :-\ I have looked for the marriage of Margaret Bouchard to William and i can't see it.
The only other thing is maybe Margaret was a young widow when she married William, so her surname would be different :-\ Sorry thats all I can think of.
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I got them on 1871
RG10/499/24/4 As Solan with Benjamin Bouchard Bro in law (looks like next door)
Going for 1861 now ;D
Yvonne
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1861 he states St Pancras as PoB ....
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He states same on 1871 St Pancras For POB ,Living in Bethanal Green !!
Yvonne
1861 Ref No RG9/263/137/30
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So grateful for all your help. Would it be possible for everyone to stack up all their info. for me as I am away from my computer in a few minutes for a week!!! I started getting all this info. at the wrong time. I do hope you will continue to search for me. I would be very happy fo find this man's parents and anything else going back from his birth.
Many, many thanks.
Speak to you all again in a weeks time.
Amber
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can you not answer the questions asked first :D
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Can someone put up the details of the 1861 for me, I have no access.
Is he a Bootmaker on all the census?
Cheers
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MARRIAGE - Sep Qtr 1850 - Hackney - 9 on the FREEBMD page
There are five (5) brides
One of them is Margaret BOUCHARD
Cheers
AMBLY
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so he was sweet 16 ? :P
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On 1861 He is a Cordwainer with wife Margaret & Children William 2 & Mary Ann 1 (Margaret & Children Say Born Bethanal Green )
Yvonne
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Cheers will dig again :o
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Found The 2 elder childrens births both registered Bethnal Green - Solon William J Sept 1858 ref 1c 252. & Solen Mary Ann June 1860 ref 1c 294
So yet again different variants of the name !!
Yvonne :(
Also if thats the Marriage Ambly found Why is there no children in the first 8 Years ??
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SO Margaret BOUCHARD, with a brother Benjamin - is:
1841 - age 3 - HO107/ Piece 694 / Book 11 / Folio 40 / Pg 16
1851 - age 13 - HO107 / Piece: 1542 / Folio: 303 / Pg 18
Quite right Newfster ;D :P ;D Let alone Wm being sweet 16/17 in 1850 - obviously Margaret can't be the one marrying 1850 either! My silly mistake 8) ;D Sorry Yvonne!
Cheers
AMBLY
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I had a general looking at the Bouchard name around 1850's for marriages.
There are a few James, Jane are just some all around Bethnal Green,
So I think Margaret might be found on the 1841 around that area, if someone could look.
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Sorry must of been typing at the same time. Could any one find William on the 1851 census?
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I'm having no luck with William on the 1841 or 1851 he has got to be there but prob mis transcribed !! will keep looking ;D
Yvonne
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Just for the record,
1891 Transcribed as Solew RG12/204/89/9 Williams Place of birth now says St Lukes London.
1901 Transcribed as Solem RG13/225/31/53 Williams place of birth St Lukes London.
Both Census Civil Parish of Hackney.
Back To The 1841/51 :(
Yvonne :D
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Hi Again
Deaths Sep 1925
Solen William Age 91 Hackney 1b 418 (So his DOB 1834 Is Correct)
Yvonne ;D
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Hi again, Can someone see what they think.
1841 Census Margaret was 3
1851 Census " " " 13
1861 "" "" 24
1871 33
1881 45
1891 56
1901 66
So I have found a death for her but its in Bouchard ??
Deaths Sep 1907
Bouchard Margaret Age 72 Hackney 1b 233
So my question is were they ever Married ??? The plot Thickens
Yvonne
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No stopping you now is there :D
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;D ;D ;D ;D I love a good hunt ;D ;D ;D ;D
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In 1861 the only other Solen's shown are:
St Lukes, London
Mary Solen bc.1796 b. Ireland
John Solen son bc.1837 Shoreditch
Could this be Williams mother and brother? Notice quite a lot of the Solen's appear to be Irish so could this be the reason why nothing on IGI? They may well have been Catholic.
Annette
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Hi Annette,
i did see that one earlier Is the son John a shoemaker ?? if thats the one i was also wondering if it could be same family. Then i thought the one i seen might have been mother May ??
Going back to see if i can find it again
Yvonne
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Hi again,
i also found the same ones on 1851 But Mother is down as May ??
HO107/1522/262/28 But still no William ?? :( But This could well be his Mother And Brother John Solen Born c 1837 Shoreditch Shoemaker !!
Another something to consider. I did look for these on 1841 as well as William but i had no luck Sorry
Yvonne
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am I missing something too...
The marriage in 1850 might not have been to William Solen but to someone else, hence no SOLEN children born for the first 8 years, she was with her first husband.
What where the male names on the marriage search, then search bor William Solen and Margaret x - that is of course if they did eventually marry.
sorry if I've missed this as I've only skimmed the answers.....
Do really need Amber to be exact in what she has already. ::)
good work though ;D
modified... 1851 Found margaret at home with parents and bro Benjamin so the marriage can't be hers.
Ignore me :P
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1851 there is an Ann Solen arriving in NY to join her husband with 5 children
all born................ Ireland. William is age 11 ?
Ship Name: Andrew Foster
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no sign of William or the rest of the Solen family in US/Canada after that
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this could be the first Mary Ann from the 1861 census
MARY ANN SOLING
B 16 JUN 1860
C 08 JUL 1860 Old Church, Saint Pancras,
F WILLIAM SOLING
M ELIZA
in which case it would be worth getting the birth cert!...who is Eliza!
amended there was a William and Eliza SULLING with dau Mary Ann in St Pancras too....
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Hi All :D
I guess we are now waiting for the delayed answer to the initial question : ie:
Amber ;D :If you already have all Census, what are the 1841 and 1851 for William?
Plus some more:
Have we got the same Margaret in 1841 and 1851 as you have - ie: daughter of James and Jane
The Census that has been found for Margaret and then a death, apparently as BOUCHARD - seems to fit.
Maybe Death is mis-indexed or unclearly written out and it does also say "SOLEN" on the certificate
Maybe the informant gave her maiden name in error (in which case you may never know, unless you find a marriage)
Here are 2 website which at least, has what could be Margaret's BOUCHARD's forbears on it, but not her . Maybe the tree owner knows more than is online and is willing to help/share:
The latter tree's owner appears to be in Australia.
http://www.gedview.com/osborne/indilist.php?alpha=B&surname_sublist=yes&surname=Bouchard
http://joxbox.bravehost.com/CARON/fam409.html
cheers
AMBLY
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Hi all, Sorry I was away but am now back. I have read all the answers and amazed at all the searching everyone is doing. I will try to get everything I have updated.
SOLEN: I have 1861 Census William aged 26 Cordwainer (shoemaker), Margaret aged 24 born Bethnal Green, son William aged 2 and daughter Mary Ann aged 1. I haven't found them at all in the 1871 Census. In the 1881 Census, son William is in the Royal Horse Artillery in Aldershot. William and Margaret have Benjamin 18, Emma 16, Jane 13, James 11, John 9and Margaret 2, all born in Shoreditch, London. In 1891 Census th family is still the same with the addition of Son william back home and the youngest Alice 9, who was my grandmother.
BOUCHARD: I have Margaret's birth certificate parents James and Jane maiden name Prudens. Margaret was born 26 February 1838. As a matter of interest her parents and some sibling names she gave to her own children.
Benjamin Bouchard was definites her brother. I have never found a marriage certificate for William and Margaret. If they don't cross-reference then they are not a match. Let me know what other information you reuqire.
Hope I am helping you
Amber
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Welcome to Rootschat Amberglow ;D
Do you have William and Margaret marriage certificate? It would tell you the
name of William father, which would help.
Hi CU, apparently, there is no marriage certificate for William and Margaret. This has been my problem for 20 years, not getting his parents name.
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Welcome, Amberglow.
It would also help if you let us know which censuses you have already seen, so we don't go over old ground.
Do you know where in London he was born?
meles
Hi Meles, I have William and family on the 1861, 1881 and 1891 Census's They were all born in Bethnal Green, London.
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Welaome to RootschaT Amberglow.
In the various census that you have traced William Solen, has his name always been transcribed 'Solen"?
If you could post the census details it may help those helping you.
Joy
Hi Joy, Just replying to everyone, I didn't know how to do it before now!!. On the 1861, 1881 and 1891 Census's it is always SOLEN, which is the correct name. On the 1871 Census the family come up as SOAN, which is incorrect. These are the only Census's I have. I can't find them on any other.
Amber
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1901 Transcribed as Solem RG13/225/31/53 Williams place of birth St Lukes London.
Yvonne :D
Dont forget You have the 1901 Amber ;D
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I got them on 1871
RG10/499/24/4 As Solan with Benjamin Bouchard Bro in law (looks like next door)
Going for 1861 now ;D
Yvonne
And 1871 ;D
So you need William On 1841 & 1851 Which is the ones we are stuck on :(
You have margaret on 1841 & 1851 SO Margaret BOUCHARD, with a brother Benjamin - is:
1841 - age 3 - HO107/ Piece 694 / Book 11 / Folio 40 / Pg 16
1851 - age 13 - HO107 / Piece: 1542 / Folio: 303 / Pg 18
Cheers
AMBLY
Which ambly found ;D
Yvonne ;)
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MARRIAGE - Sep Qtr 1850 - Hackney - 9 on the FREEBMD page
There are five (5) brides
One of them is Margaret BOUCHARD
Cheers
AMBLY
Hi Ambly, I have checked these records and there is no cross-reference for William with the same record so this is not my Margaret Bouchard. Marriages always have to cross-reference with same details.
Thanks any.
Amber
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Hi Amber ;D
My thinking was: there are too many people on that one reference - there should only be 8. Someone doesn't belong there and since there are 5 women listed it must be one of the 5 brides. ie: Is it Margaret?
And this begs the question, is there a William SOLEN (or variant or mangling of) on a FREEBMD page that is missing a bride...around the same time?
Yes, of course, at the end of the day a bride and groom who marry each other must be referenced the same. However, FREEBMD is an incomplete transcribing project, and despite careful checking and data entry (often by 2 different transcribers) errors do creep in. Or sometimes, unreadable images cause the transcriber to be unable to fully decipher the vol & pg number reference (or a name). I have in the past found Brides and Grooms who definitely married each other, listed on FREEBMD with different references, where one of them is wrong.
This could be because :
the volume number is entered incorrectly (causing the event to be listed under the wrong registration district
the page number is entered incorrectly
The page number or volume being wholly or partially unreadable.
The Qtr and or year have been incorrectly entered into FREEBMD. Less common, but can happen!
The Original image itself records the wrong ref. nrs - again, that index is a transcription in itself, and human error could also occur at that stage!
For example a man may be listed as 8b 437.
His bride may be listed as 3b 437, or 8b 487, or 8b 4[_]7 - so she won't come up "with him".
With a rather unusual name like Margaret BOUCHARD, I would definitely be interested in any who come up in or around the right area in or around the right time. So unless, you have managed tie that Margaret in 1850 to one of the 4 men on the same page ...she could still be yours?
Cheers ;D
AMBLY
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Hiya all
Welcome to Rootschat Amberglow
On BMD Registers http://bmdregisters.co.uk/ there is a baptism for a William Herbert Solly 1835 Middlesex which might be a possible contender
Anyone got any credits for that site and can do a lookup?
Willow x
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Just re-reading the thread though, it looked like we had found Margaret in 1851 Census, unmarried and age 13 with her brother Benjamin - we were waiting to see if that was the one you had - and it looks like it is)
SO the 1850 extra bride can't be her.........but, the scenario of mis transcription could still be a factor in the missing marriage of your couple D
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Amber ;D
My thinking was: there are too many people on that one reference - there should only be 8. Someone doesn't belong there and since there are 5 women listed it must be one of the 5 brides. ie: Is it Margaret?
And this begs the question, is there a William SOLEN (or variant or mangling of) on a FREEBMD page that is missing a bride...around the same time?
Yes, of course, at the end of the day a bride and groom who marry each other must be referenced the same. However, FREEBMD is an incomplete transcribing project, and despite careful checking and data entry (often by 2 different transcribers) errors do creep in. Or sometimes, unreadable images cause the transcriber to be unable to fully decipher the vol & pg number reference (or a name). I have in the past found Brides and Grooms who definitely married each other, listed on FREEBMD with different references, where one of them is wrong.
This could be because :
the volume number is entered incorrectly (causing the event to be listed under the wrong registration district
the page number is entered incorrectly
The page number or volume being wholly or partially unreadable.
The Qtr and or year have been incorrectly entered into FREEBMD. Less common, but can happen!
The Original image itself records the wrong ref. nrs - again, that index is a transcription in itself, and human error could also occur at that stage!
For example a man may be listed as 8b 437.
His bride may be listed as 3b 437, or 8b 487, or 8b 4[_]7 - so she won't come up "with him".
With a rather unusual name like Margaret BOUCHARD, I would definitely be interested in any who come up in or around the right area in or around the right time. So unless, you have managed tie that Margaret in 1850 to one of the 4 men on the same page ...she could still be yours?
Cheers ;D
AMBLY
Hi again Ambly, I understand what you are saying but wouldn't our searching be a waste of time if we linked ourselves with anyone who had the right name, place and date regardless of reference number. I don't feel happy to do that. I can understand that sometimes a name gets spelt wrong(i have actually changed spelling on one of my family tree lines on the actual record) but for marriages, I am not sure I could link one to another if the references didn't match.
Regards
Amber - can't give a Smiley. Tell me how to attach them lol
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Hiya Ambly
If you look at the image for the marriage for Margaret on FreeDMB it quite clearly reads III 169
If you do a search under forename William who married 1850 3/4 Hackney it lists about 30+ names including a William Solkon (ref III 195) and a William Sibson (ref III 196)
Have checked the image on both of these
Could either of these be William Solen?
Willow x
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And now totally disregard the above lol ;)
Willow x
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Hi all,
I agree with Ambly we did find her in 1851 with her parents She would of been to young to marry in 1850 ( 12 If born in 1838 ) :-X
I have searched 1841 & 1851 but nothing that looks like William Solen :'(
Yvonne ;)
P.S I'm Still convinced they didn't marry :-[ ;D
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Hi all,
I agree with Ambly we did find her in 1851 with her parents She would of been to young to marry in 1850 ( 12 If born in 1838 ) :-X
I have searched 1841 & 1851 but nothing that looks like William Solen :'(
Yvonne ;)
P.S I'm Still convinced they didn't marry :-[ ;D
Hiya Yvonne, Yes, I have Margaret with her parents on the 1851. As I said before, I am sure very sure this is her because she gave names to her childrent the same as her parents and siblings. I also agree they probably did not marry. What do you think about all the odd cross references. Surely, they can't be taken seriously
Amber
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And now totally disregard the above lol ;)
Willow x
Willow, and now I am getting totally confused, lol
Amber
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Hiya Browniepants
Yes I think so too
If you do a search for marriages of a William and Margaret between 1850 and 1861 you only get 11 possible couples in the whole of the country - none of them anywhere near a match
Willow x
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And now totally disregard the above lol ;)
Willow x
Willow, and now I am getting totally confused, lol
Amber
Hiya Amber
I was trying to match possible misspelt/mis registered Williams to the Margaret of 1850 we had found
Till Browniepants pointed out we had already found your Margaret unmarried in 1851 lol
Willow x
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Hi Again
Cross References ??? I'm Confused Now (Dont Take A Lot)
Like i Said Before You Need William On the 1841 & 1851 (Which Seems Impossible to Get)
Why dont you order the death entry i found for Margaret Bouchard , it might tell you something if only that William was maybe there at her death & it might prove they were not Married (Clutching at straws here ::) )
I have just had to buy one for one of mine and it was a lucky dip but it worked ;D
Dont know what else to suggest ???
Have you found a death entry for William yet ??? I have looked but cant see one that fits :-\
Yvonne ;)
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Yvonne, William died in 1925.Don't have details in front of me. I haven't gopt his death certificate. Do the death certificates actually give spouse name. I have never felt the need to buy death certs.
After all this time I still have to ask the question "Who is he". Do you think this subject has now run its course lol.
amber
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Hi amber,
Death certs give the informants name & sometimes !! it is there spouses who are present at death,
So its a long shot but i think they are worth the £7 ;D
Yvonne
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I found the death record it is: Jul/Sept. 1925 1b 418. He was 91
Amber
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Funny I just got to that page :D
He was a good age :o I found his son James death aswell
James Solen 1922 age 53 Hackney 1b 492 (Q4)
His Father out lived him :(
Yvonne ;)
Bye the way what relation are these people to you if you dont mind me asking ( Nosey ;D )
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Hi Nosey, I mean Yvonne lol,
William and Margaret were my great grandparents
Their youngest Alice was my grandmother, my Dad's mother.
Amber
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Hi amber, are you still doing your tree? I've been stuck on William, & reached the same conclusion as your researchers did, that William & Margaret never married (the Bouchards were Hugenots, if William was a Catholic, they wouldn't be able to marry in either of their churches) Solan/Solen is an Irish name, 2 million people left ireland between 1845-1855, and one of your cousins told me one of her grandfathers was 'a cobbler from Cork who married a Hugenot'. I feel that must be him. Alice is my mother's grandmother, I wish I knew who he was too
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Hi Again
Deaths Sep 1925
Solen William Age 91 Hackney 1b 418 (So his DOB 1834 Is Correct)
Yvonne ;D
Hi. I have just registered here and in search of any information of William Solen. He is my 2x grandfather. I have come stuck and cannot find any information on him other than his birth and death and that his partner was Margaret Bouchard and had a daughter Alice Solen, my grandfathers mother. Please can you help if you have anything to add, it would be much appreciated.
Thanks, Bev
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Hi. I have just registered here and trying to work out how to reply to people, please bear with me.
I am in search of any information of William Solen. He is my 2x grandfather. I have come stuck and cannot find any information on him other than his birth and death and that his partner was Margaret Bouchard and had a daughter Alice Solen, my grandfathers mother. He has been the only one who has fascinated both my mother and myself for many years, who is he? why are there not any records anywhere for him? Margaret Bouchard, does anyone have her parents as we are sure we made a big mistake on her side so deleted it all ready to start again. If anyone has any information on these I would be really grateful. Id love to tell my Mum that I have news of him.
Thanks, Bev
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Hi all. My mother and I have been trying for many years now to figure out where does William come from. I have his birth as 1834 in St Pancras London, but am unable to get a birth certificate to find out who is parents are. He is seen in many census' with Margaret and their children. He was a cordwainer (bootmaker) In the 1911 census aged 77 he was an inmate in a workhouse. He was a widower by then. I presume he was there until his death in 1925. I have not looked into Margarets side yet as so many Bouchards. Does anyone have any info on William other than what is on the census'? your help is greatly appreciated. Bev
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You won't get a birth cert for births prior to 1837, the only way you might find him is through baptism records
Louisa Maud
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When did they marry? A copy of his marriage cert will show his fathers name
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Could this be him in 1841
1841 Mile End Old Town
Willm Saline 40
Sarah Saline 30
William Saline 7
H0107/712
Bk 8 F39 p24
CaroleW has a better match ;D
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Also in 1841 in St Pancras - parents both shown as not born in county. Surname confirmed as per Walters birth reg
William Solman 30 - cannot decipher occupation
Mary A 30
William 5
Elizabeth 3
George 2
Walter 3 Mo
HO107 Piece 685/5 Folio 12 Page 21
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I think this has already been talked about by AMBERGLOW on a previous posting
Louisa Maud
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I think this has already been talked about by AMBERGLOW on a previous posting
Louisa Maud
Thank you Louisa Maud - link to other very long post
topics now merged
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Will ask moderator to merge posts to prevent duplicated efforts
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Going back to previous post it states son William and daughter Mary Ann, both Mary Ann and William have mother's maiden name as BOUCHARD along with
Benjamin born 1862
James 1870
Jane Sarah 1867
Louisa Maud
Another oddity Marriage
James Newlyn cordwainer father William a tailor
to
Margaret Bouchard father James a cordwainer
Parish church Hackney 1850
1861 aged 7 there is twins, James and Sarah Newlyn born 1854 MMN Bouchard born Bethnal Green,
but
1861 William Solon born 1859 and Mary Ann 1860 are also maiden name bouchard
Puzzling
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I don't think this has been covered in the original thread , but apologies if I've missed it.
Leominster News and North West Herefordshire and Radnorshire Advertiser 5 July 1907
Before dying in hospital as a result of throwing herself into the River Lea , Margaret Bouchard , a single woman aged 72 , of London Fields said she was worried and tired of life. William Solen , aged 73 , said at the inquest at Hackney , when a verdict of Suicide while Insane was returned , that she had lived with him since 1857. The outdoor relief which they had received for two years was to be stopped as they were not married. He earned 2s or 2s and 6 pence per week and their rent was 2s and 6pence . The woman had been much depressed and dreaded the Workhouse.
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Oh dear, how sad
Louisa Maud
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I dont remember coming on here before and doing a post. Have been on so many sites though, hard to keep track of them all.
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There must have been a reason why Margaret Bouchard and William Solen didn't marry, it states Margaret was a single woman so perhaps William was married before he set up home with Margaret
circa 1857
Louisa Maud
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Hi all
Yet again i lost trace of this site. I am now going to bookmark it.
With the help on another site, I can confirm that William and Margaret didn't marry. (Not sure if I did say this before when on here) I have a newspaper cutting of the trial of Margaret Bouchards suicide attempt, in it William states they never married.
I have been to family history events and trying to get information on how to find Williams records prior to the census's. His birth certificate is untraceable, maybe because prior to 1837. Was told to go through parish records for a baptism. That is now my next job. Sit in the archives for a day and see if I can find anything on him there. Just need to find the time to get there now.
They must be someone out there somewhere who is related to William and know his history, parents etc. How can there be no trace, its baffling. William and Margaret are my Gt Gt Grandparents and i'd love to get just one bit of info on Williams history