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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Kerilane on Sunday 01 June 08 21:36 BST (UK)
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I would appreciate any help in tracing the Orchard family.
My Great Grandfather was Thomas Orchard born about 1846 in Dorchester,Oxfordshire.
I think i have found a reference for his baptism dated 29.03.1846 at Dorchester.
His mother was Harriet Orchard and on the baptism ref it describes her as Harriet single woman,gypsy without fixed residence.
I have a copy of Harriet's marriage certificate in 1864 to a Gideon Davis.
Harriet's father was James Orchard,Occupation was basketmaker.
Any information would be very helpful.
Thanks
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you have come to the right place
Deb USa on here is connected to the Orchards
along with a whole load of other folk!
what information would you like?
you seem to have his birth
his mothers name and her subsequent marriage
PS they didn't stay in Oxfordshire ;D
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1861
RG9; 908; 25; 11;
Fullbrook
Gideon Davis 33 head hawker & grinder b. brisley gloucs
Harriett Orchard 50 housekeeper (this is listed in relationship to head!) wife b. oxford
Thomas 15 wifes son b. dorset dorchester
Rachael 12 wifes dau. b, Hants Sutton
Joseph 9 wifes son b, hanwell berks
Mary 9 wifes dau. b. do.
Jonathan 6 wifes son b. oxon fullbrook
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The info you have there is definitely my Great Grandfather,he eventually lived in Bourton on the Water where my grandfather and his brothers and sisters were born,and also where Thomas died in 1917.
I only have his baptism info,but don't know about his exact birth.
I would like to try and find out more info about his mother Harriet,and his Grandfather James if i can.
I know from census records that Thomas' occupation was Tinker/Brazier and journeyman.
I have the marriage certificate to his first wife Ann Turner who died at the age of 38 in 1888,but i can't find any record of his marriage to my Great Grandmother Maria Agnes Pettifer.
I guess i just want to try and find any other info about him so i can try and get more of an idea what kind of man he was.
Regards
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1871
RG10;1454; 33; 23
fulbrook
Thomas Orchard 25 head tinplate worker b. dorchester
Mary A 21 wife b. Skipton
Arthur 2 son scholar b. Fulbrook
William Jno 10 months son b. do.
1881
RG11; 1517; 25; 10
Fulbrook
Thomas Orchard 35 brazier b. dorchester
Mary 32 wife b. skipton
Clare 13 dau. scholar b. Fulbrook
Arthur 12 son do. b. do.
Willy 10 do. do. b. do.
Alice 8 dau. do. b. do.
Rachel 5 do. do. b. do.
John 3 son do. b. do.
Christina 1 dau.. b. do.
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if you read through these threads it may help you!
Debs hunt
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,265094.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,266055.0.html
Cathays hunt
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,290053.0.html
Tiggis hunt
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,286905.0.html
in the meantime wil look for Harriett in earlier census - think we may have done this in Debs hunt ;)
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http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/#/penfoldorchardfami/4525261773
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just seen your message toni will help if i can
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Harriet was the d/o James
is she connected to Sophia Orchard who married Thomas :-\ ( i think) PEnfold?
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I am not sure there are loads of harriet orchards and unfortnately james orchards too
I will look abou tand see if I can come up with anything
maybe when debs come online she will be able to help more
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i am on board too for this one.just read the posts so far.i am still recovering my back up data from broken computer but should be able to see orchard tree later tonight.they are part of my family,i have a large line of them.see what i can do aswell but i expect you will have it sorted before i can find mine!!!!you clever lot.romany hugs to all cathay.matilda i think is on hols she would love this one as part of her family as well.if your not on hols matilda i am back on line now.bit sore and wounded!!!!
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HI Tiggi
yes there were lots of Harriett Orchards and James Orchards about but how many were travellers i think they are most likely to be connected to 'you lot'
i cannot see arriet in 1841 or James for that matter,
must try harder
Toni
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firstly thomas penfold who married sophie orchard was born 1841,sophie 1846.they did not have a daughter called harriet that i know of!i have a james orchard born 1825 in salisbury wiltshire. is there another dorchester in oxford?the one i know is in dorset.my orchards our mailnly west country so i dont know if i will be much help.the only harriet i have married a chap called spargo!!if we are talking oxford though i have a job orchard born 1824 married a sarah mills.he was born in oxford but was the child of christina woodley hunt and edward orchard. regards cathay.
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no i dont think there is a Dorchester in Oxford, that is a mistake
So Thomas Orchard was born in Dorset
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well this should connect to our families somewhere as its our area.i have thomas b.1834 salisbury wiltshire but not that far away he married charlotte hughes though.i am a bit confused.who are we actually looking for thomas or jamesalas i think i may have lost the plot as we are now down in dorset and re rereading 1st post it also says bouton on the water and i think that is in oxford,if its not its quite near.some one give me some clear guide lines as i am having rather too many senior moments after my massive computer crash.romany hugs cathay
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Hi All,
Just to let you know there is a Dorchester between Abingdon and Wallingford, was in Berkshire
now Oxfordshire :) :) :)
Sue
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thanks jam a jo that makes things a bit clearer.we live and learn!!!
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Just found this on Wallingford Prs cd in Newington, hope it helps :)
Jan 2 1808 Joseph son of Joseph and Ann Orchard, travellers
Sue
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Hi all,
I appreciate everyone's help on this one,
I have a copy of Harriet's death certificate,she died in 1874 age 70yrs (according to certificate ) so that would put her birth at about 1814ish...although i can't take these dates as gospel.
Thomas had 2 sisters and 2 brothers,according to census records Rachel was born in Sutton Courtney,Joseph and Mary (twins) in Harwell and Jonathon in Taynton all these places are in Oxfordshire,but i can't find any birth references.
Thanks again
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Hi All,
Just to let you know there is a Dorchester between Abingdon and Wallingford, was in Berkshire
now Oxfordshire :) :) :)
Sue
I stand corrected - thanks Sue :) (i didn't see that on the map, i did look! :-[)
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Hi Kerilane dd you read through Debs scavenger hunt thread? is anything jumping out at you?
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i think it is a bit strange that if the family were travellers all the children were born in Oxfordshire. :-\
Modified - oops no they were not all born Oxon, Hants and Berks were listed as their County of birth in 1861
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Births Q4 1854
Orchard Jonathan Witney 3a 520
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Found this marriage in Appleton PRs
Apr 9 1809 Joseph Orchard, travelling man of Longcot Berks
to
Ann Bland of Chitterly Bucks, a travelling woman.
Did search Sutton Courtney and Harwell PRs but there was no Orchards on there.
Sue
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Just a note about this marriage BLAND as a surname was also known as SMITH intermixed so she could well have been actually a Smith
I don;t know them just thought I would mentioned about the surnames encase anyone comes across this in the future
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Hi all,
Had a look at info i found on census records,it would appear that the children were born in different counties,
Thomas abt 1846 Dorchester, Oxon
Rachel abt 1849,Sutton,Hants
Mary and Joseph abt 1852,Harwell,Berks and,
Jonathon abt 1854, Taynton,Oxon.
Just out of interest would they have been more likely to have baptised the children instead of registering the birth?
I read through Debs scavenger hunt but the names in her tree don't appear to match with mine.
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hello everyone. id just like to say that these families are related to the scarrott family . my great aunty christina ireland married a pratley , alfred whos granny was a scarrott, keziah. i have alot of information about these families going way way back . i will have a better read about the messages that have been posted on here and will help out were i can take care selina ;)
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Hi Selinat
I would be interested to know if you have anything about a Eliza/Elizabeth Scarrott/Scarrett who married a James Smith, they are my Great-Great Grandparents by their daughter Betsy Smith who married my Great grandfather Nelson Buckland
James ^ Eliza had children
Selina m Henry James
Peggy m Joe Orchard ( info from her birth certificate about parents)
William m Caroline Smitheram
Harriet m Robert Lee
Betsy m Nelson Buckland
Britannia - never married
there maybe more children not found yet, but I know nothing about parents , would really like to figure out where they came from and which family both belong too
tiggi
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Hi all,
Had a look at info i found on census records,it would appear that the children were born in different counties,
Thomas abt 1846 Dorchester, Oxon
Rachel abt 1849,Sutton,Hants
Mary and Joseph abt 1852,Harwell,Berks and,
Jonathon abt 1854, Taynton,Oxon.
Just out of interest would they have been more likely to have baptised the children instead of registering the birth?
I read through Debs scavenger hunt but the names in her tree don't appear to match with mine.
hi kerilane
I would agree totally with your comment they would most definately likely had children baptized but not always registered birth , also its possible the children could be much older than a baby when baptized , going by my own family my great grand-father was 11 when baptized, but I can;t find a birth record, also you may find them baptized anywhere not always in place they were born , but start in one county and follow by looking in neighbouring counties, I will see if I can help you here and do a search as well,
tiggi
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Hi Selinat
I would be interested to know if you have anything about a Eliza/Elizabeth Scarrott/Scarrett who married a James Smith, they are my Great-Great Grandparents by their daughter Betsy Smith who married my Great grandfather Nelson Buckland
James ^ Eliza had children
Selina m Henry James
Peggy m Joe Orchard ( info from her birth certificate about parents)
William m Caroline Smitheram
Harriet m Robert Lee
Betsy m Nelson Buckland
Britannia - never married
there maybe more children not found yet, but I know nothing about parents , would really like to figure out where they came from and which family both belong too
tiggi
william scarrott and margaret ?
children Eliza 1817 married James Smith
2 children ( only 2 i have ) christoper born 1829 & margaret ( peggy born 1854)
other children of william & margaret
william 1819
susanna 1820 she married joe orchard who was the son of edward orchard & christina hunt
caroline she married william orchard who was also the son of edward & christina
james
christoper ( 1829) had 2 marriages first to elizabeth ? then Rhoda smith. Rhoda smith was the daughter of william smith & sinfoy/ sinfi smith . rhoda died at walthamstow 1912
margaret( peggy) was born 21st feb 1854 at crediton , Devon she married joseph orchard who was the son of william orchard & caroline scarrott
Susanna - joe orchard children Edwin , william & James
caroline - william children james, susanna, joseph, william , christina, caroline , thomas, louisa, henry & sophia . my links to the scarrott family are through keziah whos father was john scarrott , william scarrotts brother . my information may not be correct , but i will try to help were ever i can , as this scarrott family really interests me
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hi Selinat
If I have read it correct you agree Eliza married James Smith
you also say if again read it correct that they had 2 children you know of ? Christopher 1829 & Margaret1854 ?
Christopher married an Elizabeth then Rhoda Smith ?
Margaret ( peggy) has to be correct asI know of her marriage etc to joseph Orchard
I did not know about Christopher will follow that up, trhank you
do you know anything more about James & eliza please they have been my stumbling block for so long
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yes eliza married james smith. i am sorry if i confused you , sometimes i dont make things clear LOL just jabber on . yes a boy christopher , but eliza would of been a young mother, but it is pos. christopher went with a smith woman his dads people were smiths . i have read your posts about the scarrotts , i no were your coming from about stumbling blocks . they are a hard family to work out , who is who and who belongs to who. i will read up on what i have got and get back to you in the week . william scarrott married margaret whitehouse , margaret was the daughter of james whitehouse & theadocia whitehouse ;) rhoda smith died in 1912 she was 65
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Hi Selinat
Thank you for helping just to say yes Scarrott family are very hard to follow I have seen that many people have Theophilus Scarrott would be Keziah brother married to Rhoda Smith married 3rd feb 1862 Great Stanmore middlesex his 1st wife as Valentine Brinkley, could it be same woman maybe Christropher died or something ?
I would love to know more if you can help have you got a birth date for eliza or Christropher ?
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UPDATE FOR KERILANE
1861 Census
Gideon Davis Head 33 Tinker & Grinder b 1828 Brisley Gloucestershire
Harriet Orchard 50 Housekeeper b 1811 Oxfordshire
Thomas 15 b 1846 Dorcestershire Oxfordshire
Rachel 12 b 1849 Fants Sutton
Joseph 9 b 1852 Hanwell Berks
Mary 9 b 1852 Hanwell Berks
Jonathan 6 b 1855 Fullbrook Oxfordshire
Gideon Davis age has to be wrong surely just doesn;t seem possible he would marry Harriet when she is so much older, on your marriage certificate what was his age at marriage ?
1871 Census Fullbrook Oxfordshire
Thomas Orchard 25 married Tinplate worker bDocestershire Oxfordshire 1846
Mary A Orchard 21 b Shipton Oxfordshire 1850
Arthur Orchard 2 b Fullbrook Oxfordshire 1869
William Jno Orchard 10mth b Fullbroook Oxfordshire 1870
Elizbeth Taylor 36 b Shipton Oxfordshire 1835
Jane 17 b Shipton Oxfordshire 1854
George 15 b Stow Gloucestershire 1856
James 12 b Fullbrook Oxfordshire 1859
Tamar (F)9 b Fullbrook Oxfordshire 1862
Noah 7 b Fullbrook oxfordshire 1864
Emma 5 b Fullbrook Oxfordshire 1866
Alice 5mths b FullbrookOxfordshire 1870
1881 Census Fulbrook Oxfordshire
Thomas Orchard 35 b 1846 Dorcestershire Dorset
Mary 32 b 1849 Shipton Oxfordshire
Clare 13 b 1868 Fulbrook
Arthur 12 b 1869 Fulbrook
William 10 b 1871 Fulbrook
Alice 8 b 1873 Fulbrook
Rachel 5 b 1876 Fulbrook
John 3 b 1878 Fulbrook
Christiana 1 b 1880 Fulbrook
George Taylor 51 b 1830 Shipton Oxfordshire
Elizabeth 51 b 1830 Shipton
James 23 b 1858 Fulbrook
Emily 15 b 1866 Fulbrook
Noah 16 b 1865 Fulbrook
Alice 9 b 1871 Fulbrook
1891 Census Bourton -on-water Gloucestershire
Thomas Orchard 43 (Widowed) b 1848 Oxon Worcestershire (Tin plate worker)
John 14 b 1877 Fulbrook Ag Lab
Ada 13 b 1878 Fulbrook
Eliza 6 b 1885 Fulbrook
Maria Pettifer 28 b 1863 Barrington Gloucestershire
George E 2 b 1889 Burford gloucestershire
Frank 4 b 1887 Fulbrook
Harry 0 b 1891 Fulbrook
1901 Bourton -on-water Gloucestershire
Thomas Orchard 53 b 1848
Maria 38 b 1863
Emily 16 b 1885
Thomas Pettifer 16 b 1865 (Stepson0
Elizabeth 15 b 1886
Frank 13 b 1888
George Pettifer 11 b 1890 Stepson
Harry 10 b 1891
Ethel 7 b 1894
Percy 4 b 1897
Daisy 3 b 1898
Fredrick 8mths b 1900
found this :
Pettifer/Pettyfer family:
Edward Pettyfer 1718 2nd marriage to Sarah Broadest, their son Edward b 1752 m Elizabeth Wright, they had son James Pettyfer b1786
William Pettyfer b1756 m Anne Carpenter from Bampton moved to Windrush then Great Barrington, there is an Edward & Lucy Pettyfer in Great Barrington mentioned, also says many gravestones for Pettifer/Pettyfer family in Church in Bampton.
Joseph Pettyfer 1813 Bampton son James Pettyfer b 1839 only boy had 5 sisters, James became Stone mason, had son Charles Henry Pettyfer 1875
brooks061-props@yahoo.co.uk.
Try contacting the person may help you with Pettifer family
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I ment to add I was wondering if parents of Thomas wife Mary Anne was actually George & Elizabeth Taylor as they are with them in 1871 & 1881
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Hi Selinat
Thank you for helping just to say yes Scarrott family are very hard to follow I have seen that many people have Theophilus Scarrott would be Keziah brother married to Rhoda Smith married 3rd feb 1862 Great Stanmore middlesex his 1st wife as Valentine Brinkley, could it be same woman maybe Christropher died or something ?
I would love to know more if you can help have you got a birth date for eliza or Christropher ?
hiya . keziah had 2 brothers called Theophilus ( 1837-1839) & (1839-1871)
Theophilus scarrott married Rhoda Smith 3rd Feb 1862 from that marriage 3 children that i no about Conceletta ( 1863-1944), Frederick (1865-1877) & William (1866) . Theophilus Scarrott died between (1871-1878) . keziah also had a brother Frederick who had 2 marriages both to smith women. i have not come across valentine brinkley but i will look at my information again for you ::)
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Rhoda Smith was my gt gt grandmother, she married officially Theophilus Scarrott in 1862, then by 1871 she is not on census with Theo and children although he says he is married. By 1881 no sign of Theo but Rhoda is now with Valentine Brinkley and has 3 boys by him (her daughter Conceletta, my gt grandmother, by Theo goes on to marry Walter Brinkley who is Valentines nephew) After Valentine dies Rhoda then goes with Christopher Smith and is with him on 1891 census. One of Christophers nieces i think is also a Rhoda but long before my Rhoda came on scene, so i believe as my Rhoda was born a Smith she might have been related to Christopher before their 'marriage'
To Selinat, you have Rhoda as child of William Smith and Sinfoy Smith, do you have any idea where you got this info? It was one of my speculations a few years back, and is still a possibility, so if you know where you got the info would be greatly appreciated as Rhoda has been a stumbling block for years, thanks, elizabeth
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hi smilelface
Thank you for clearing that up about Rhoda Smith I found my info via some family trees on Ancestry they must have got it wrong if Valentine was a man !
would you agree that Christropher was son of James & Eliza Smith ?.
Like you these 2 have been my brick wall for ages
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hello tiggi & smileyface. so was valentine a woman ? on ancestry they had my great aunt christina down as a boy, christopher in the 1871 census . which confused me ::) . i did wonder about the name valentine. cornelius smith mothers surname was odell , . walter brinkleys mother also used loveridge? john" jack" scarrott was married to a loveridge . christopher was married a had 2 children before he was with rhoda smith ;)
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hello im a scarrott, frederick scarrott( brother of theo) was my grt grt grandfather he was born in finstock oxon in 1842 he married 2 smith s the first was drucsilla they had 2 sons emanulle and alfred, she died he then married sophia and they had eliza, william, emily. sophia already had 4 children by jacob smith they were zelpha, parents ,agnes,sinemta theo b1839 did marry rhoda they had concelleta who married walter brinkley but he kept the name of scarrott they had a daughter named ocean who married thomas cooper i have lots of imfo on the scarrotts ,jack scarrott s wife was a loveridge and funny thing again is mother was a smith. kushti bok cliff
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HI Scarrott welcome to rootschat i am sure you will find lots on here!
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Hi Scarrott
I wonder if you can help me I have been trying to find out about a James Smith who married or partner of Eliza/Elizabeth Scarrett ?
They are my great grandmother's parents I know this because it is on a birth certificate they have eluded me for many a long while and would love to know more about them I don;t even have a BMD for either I am afraid can you help please
tiggi
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hello tiggy ive nothing on james smith ive got an eliza b. ramsden1844 daughter of john who became a smith this must be the one a lot of scarrott and smiths married years ago sorry
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hi smilelface
Thank you for clearing that up about Rhoda Smith I found my info via some family trees on Ancestry they must have got it wrong if Valentine was a man !
would you agree that Christropher was son of James & Eliza Smith ?.
Like you these 2 have been my brick wall for ages
Yes sorry tiggi havent been looking at messages so sorry for delay, yes i think christoper was son of james and eliza.
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hello im a scarrott, frederick scarrott( brother of theo) was my grt grt grandfather he was born in finstock oxon in 1842 he married 2 smith s the first was drucsilla they had 2 sons emanulle and alfred, she died he then married sophia and they had eliza, william, emily. sophia already had 4 children by jacob smith they were zelpha, parents ,agnes,sinemta theo b1839 did marry rhoda they had concelleta who married walter brinkley but he kept the name of scarrott they had a daughter named ocean who married thomas cooper i have lots of imfo on the scarrotts ,jack scarrott s wife was a loveridge and funny thing again is mother was a smith. kushti bok cliff
Hello Cliff, have you been in touch with Glyn Hatherall, hes done a one name study on our Scarrotts, he comes from Shadrach, older brother of Theophilus and Frederick (i come from Theo) so we are cousins, best wishes Elizabeth
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interested party.just signing to make sure i get updates.cathayb
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hello im a scarrott, frederick scarrott( brother of theo) was my grt grt grandfather he was born in finstock oxon in 1842 he married 2 smith s the first was drucsilla they had 2 sons emanulle and alfred, she died he then married sophia and they had eliza, william, emily. sophia already had 4 children by jacob smith they were zelpha, parents ,agnes,sinemta theo b1839 did marry rhoda they had concelleta who married walter brinkley but he kept the name of scarrott they had a daughter named ocean who married thomas cooper i have lots of imfo on the scarrotts ,jack scarrott s wife was a loveridge and funny thing again is mother was a smith. kushti bok cliff
Hello Cliff , i come from Theophilus and Rhoda (my gt gt grandparents) and also the tom cooper and ocean you mention are my grandparents, My grandmother kept the name scarrott instead of brinkley, some of her siblings were brinkleys some scarrotts. Walter and Counsey brinkley are down as loveridge on 1901 census in little ilford essex. Find the brinkleys hard to find in census as they change names or its spelt brinklow and variations best wishes betty
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very good betty!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;Dget it going here aswell!!!i like it.i have asked them all to work on yours from now til the end of the hunt,did you say you have palmers in your lines?
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Sorry haven't been on much lately,
had a look at marriage certificate for Gideon Davis and Harriet Orchard,
Gideon's age is 34years old and Harriett just says full.
They were married in the parish of Brightwell in Berkshire,on 20th December 1864.
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I not to sure