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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: grandarog on Thursday 19 June 08 18:48 BST (UK)
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Hello All,
Thought you would be interested in this photo of my Father and his mates of the West Kents.
Alledgedly taken outside an Estaminey ( my Spelling)some where behind the lines north of Ypres late in 1917.During their standown period.
You never know one of you might spot your dad or grandad on the pic. My dad is the chap seated front centre.
Scrim or one of the other Experts on uniforms may enlighten us about the "cutoffs " as dad called them worn by the two chaps flanking the photo. Dad seemed to think they were only worn on Doctors chit for scabby knee ulcers or trench foot.I have never found any info to corraborate or deny.
Best Wishes ,
Rog
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The cut offs were indeed that...trousers that had been cut off for summer wear...They were quite normal in the sweltering heat of a Flanders summer, and the only nod towards a "summer scale" of kit. So probably around August time...
Interestingly, they can't be too far behind the line, as they all have their PH Hood haversacks with them. These were an early form of gas mask. They continued in usage well after the respirator with tube and canister were issued, as they countered the "persistent" forms of gas.
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BTW
It's a really good picture!
The chap at the back with the "big" hat is wearing a "Gor Blimey", known as such because, gorblimey! what a mess!
They all have the belt from te 1914 Leather Equipment...from the Slade Wallis set...So I would presume a Kitchener bn
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Great photo Rog. Scrim thanks for commentary. What about the Lance Corporal, he appears to be wearing a cap with ear flaps?
Dave
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Thanks Scrim,
I knew you would come up with the answer. Maybe dads Captain didnt approve and only allowed his chaps to wear cut offs under duress. Regarding the Kitchener bit .I dont have your knowledge of that.
To fill you in a bit Dad orriginally enlisted as a regular in the Royal East Kent Mounted Rifles (or as he called it the Yeomanry)in 1914.
I know he was in C Squad, Wardershare Troop at Maresfield Park Uckfield for a big Parade in 1915 with them. I have an orriginal photo of his C/O Lt/Col Mackeson identical to the one on the reg. History site. Also a long distance photo of the parade line up.I think it was the disbandment parade,
Cavalry was not required in trench warfare ,so he was posted to Royal West Kent Infantry and sent to the front. He was a Lewis Gunner (not wearing the sleeve emblem in the photo)
Early on in the conflict he had a bullet wound, his webbing pouch with gun cleaning kit on his chest saved him,was not serious .
Shortly after the photo was taken his gun pit was hit be a shell ,his 1 and 2 were killed and dad was riddled all down his left side with shrapnel and casavaced to Cumberland to convaless ,after emergency field surgery to dig the biggest bits out. He then went back out into the trenchs until the Armastice.
He was then transferred to the Labour Corps and spent a further year at Crystal Palace demobilising the conscripted men until he completed his service .
I still have his Pip Sqeak and Wilfred. Plus his Wounded Silver Badge and Disabled scroll from the King ,his spurs, two wound bars EKMR and RWK cap badges and LG flash and Good conduct stripe.
He said he kept his Wk cap badge on all the time he was with the Labour Corps as apparently did a lot of regular soldiers . I dont think they approved of what they considered a down grade.
Although he was blinded in his left eye and had holes and bits of black and blue under the skin all down his left side and distorted fingers on his left hand he was not considered elegible for a war pension . He then worked on the same farm for the rest of his time until 65 . Finally leaving us at the grand age of 90 in 1986.
I have put a photo on of his yeomanry days.When he looks much younger!
Thanks for the interest.
Rog
PS I recall him saying once they were alternating in the trenches with an Irish reg passing each other in the communication trenchs and he said one time none of the irish came back when his lot went forward again. He regaled my sons with some horrific stories of the appalling things in his last few years. He said he only had one long break from the trenche s and spent the time in a place called Popering which was near by, I cant remember all the placename but Cambra woods and Dicky bush Alley were spoken of but he always said he was all over Ypres and a lot of his mates litterally were spread all over!!
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Dads Picture ,it didnt upload just now.
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Hello All,
Just a nudge up in case you have any Relatives on the Picture you might recognise,
Regards Rog.
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Hello Rog,
Thanks for giving the thread a nudge; I must have missed it first time round.
Maresfield is one of the camps I have a strong interest in, especially the Artillery and Yeomanry that were there.
If I've managed to attach it, this is the front entrance to the park in 1915.
Phil
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This one might interest you Rog:
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Hello Phil,
Thanks for your input. Great pics. The group looks as if it was perhaps a competition of some sort as there are quite a few different Cap Badges present as well as EKMR.
Perhaps Scrim will come in again he is very Knowledgeable about such things.
I have some Photos of the big Parade at Maresfield in my Archive .I will look them out and try and scan them on to here . I also have an original of Dads Colonel Mackeson as seen on the Kent Fallen site.
Thanks again Rog.
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Thanks Rog,
I look forward to seeing the other photos.
I'd wondered if it was a signalling class.
Phil
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Enjoyed seeing your great photos Rog, of your Dad and his mates beside the estaminet as well as the super one of him on the horse.
Also interesting to hear some of the 'tales' from your Dad's memory, really interesting stuff, and I look forward to seeing more of your photos. :D
Phil - I'd agree the men with the different cap badges are on a Signals course as they have signalling flags.
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Hello Phil and Atom(sorry dont Know your Name),
Thanks ,I realised they were signal flags didn,t think it was a course as doesnt seem to have an instructor or chalkboard thats why I thought Competition. Have put another pic on here (I Hope) of Dad with the feed bags at Maresfield picket lines on normal daily routine. I have some more stashed away somewhere to find and scan into fileswhen I get time .Am trying to find the picture of the big parade at Maresfield to put on here for Phil.
As for dads reminices I am talking 30 years ago now he died at 90 in 1986. They were mostly gory bits to keep the grandchildren interested.Like collecting bits of your mates into sandbags on nomans lad at night and having to drop face down in the mud when jerry put up a star shell. Also of having to pile up bodies on the fire steps to keep the trench footway clear. That was when he went back the second time .not when he was in his Lewis gun pit before he was badly wounded. I remember once he did say if you were killed by a rifle bullet it was unusual as jerry rifle ammo was poor and didnt penetrate far, it was the machine guns and shell shrapnel that got you.
I am sure there are far more tales to find in the books on trench warfare.
Regards Rog
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Heres another of Dad, dont know if taken at Maresfield or at base camp in Kent near Canterbury.
Rog
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Thanks again Rog for stories and photos.
Though doubtless many accounts of trench warfare have been written about, your Dad's oral stories are still very pertinent. Might be a good idea for you to jot/note some of them down, incase they get lost in the annals of time. :)
Anne
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Hello All,
Just a bump up ,Hopefully one of you will recognise an ancestor in a photo ,
Good Luck Rog.
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Last weekend I was at the Kents Regt mueum in Maidstone...Perhaps you should contact them??
We did a display on the 18th Div of whom the RWKs were a unit...
http://www.museum.maidstone.gov.uk/pages/index.asp?area=140
Sorry I haven't been around lately...Been a bit busy!
As for your dads stories....60% of the casualties in WW1 came from artillery fire
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Hello All,
Firstly thanks Scrim, I have been to the museum several times and had chats with the custodians. Hope you had chance for a good look while you were there. Second heres another photo of Waldershare Troop at Maresfield .Phil I still havent relocated the Photos of Col. Mac or the parade they will come to light soon thats the trouble with putting things somewhere safe ,remembering where.
Must have been a publicity /propaganda photo for Mums and Dads benefit to have got the Officers communing with the men at the field kitchen!!! I am sure dad said it was just after they formed the different troops so must have been early on. I am surprised no one else has spotted any rellies on the photos ,perhaps they will on this latest one.
Regards Rog.
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Heres the Photo,
Very faint pencil on back 1915 Maresfield EKMR Yeomanry.
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Thanks Rog,
Keep them coming. ;D
Phil
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Hello All,
I thiught I should bump this up now after a year in case any of the newer chatters might recognise an ancestor from WW1
Regards Rog
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Hi All :),
Just a nudge up in case some of the newer chatters might recognise one of their relatives and for general interest .
All the Best, Rog :D ;D
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Rog
The pictures and tidbits of information are awesome. You are so lucky to have had someone who was happy to talk about it (and someone like you who was interested) and had loads of photos to help the chats along. Thank you so much for this thread. Your dad will be looking down on you and smiling...
Dee
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Hi All ,
Just a nudge up in case some of the newer chatters might recognise one of their relatives and for general interest .
All the Best, Rog
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Hi All ,
Time for yet another nudge up in case some of the newer chatters might recognise one of their relatives and for general interest .
All the Best, Rog
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Blimey Rog,
Has another year passed already.
Maybe somebody will recognise their grandad's horse from this pic. :)
Phil
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Sixth from the left. Instantly recognisable
8)
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Hi All ,
Time for yet another nudge up in case some of the newer chatters might recognise one of their relatives and for general interest .
All the Best, Rog :)
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Doesn't seem like over 4 years since I posted this.
Maybe one of you that has not been on Rootschat that long will recognise one of your ancestors in the photographs.
Good Luck. :)
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Heres another photo of Dad EKMR. with his Brother Frank RASC (on the right) and 2 of their sisters' Emily and Lucy
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What wonderful pictures and accounts. So very interesting.
One of my ancestors was in the RE and had his own horse with him throughout the conflict.
I really enjoyed your Dad's accounts. Wonderful that he had such a long life, albeit with his body suffering. Hats off to him.
Thanks for sharing.
Susan
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Just a Bump up .One of you Chatters might recognise an ancestor in the Photos. :)
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As there has been a renewed surge of interest in WW1 I have bumped my post up in case a newby recognises an ancestor with my dad in the group photo.
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Great photos Rog....you are very lucky to have these....a good way to remember the contribution he made. Thanks for sharing.
Carol
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Wonderful photos and great stories of your Dad's experience, Rog, thanks so much. I wish my Grandad had had a photographer handy: I'm always looking for him in RFA pictures! Grateful I have a studio pic of him though, not many have even that.
Very generous of you to post these so someone else can have the opportunity to spot their rels, especially this year :)
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If you are on Facebook you might want to join one of the 1914-18 war groups or pages and post it on there :)
Dee
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Bump .As so much renewed interest in WW1.
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I'm glad you "bumped" as I hadn't seen this thread and although not relevant to my family in WW1, I am so glad I have seen your wonderful photographs and stories. What treasures!
Jen :)
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Hello again,
Unknown to me, this beautiful poem was written a few weeks ago by a chap who lived with his Mum and Dad, a couple of doors away from my Father. He is now in his 50s and obviously my Dad’s stories made a lasting impression on him.
My Dad used to do the garden for his parents as they were both busy professional people. He often had the little lad with him .This was back in the 1970,s and Simon the boy who has written it was only about 5 ,full of questions and always chatting with Dad.
His Mum has just sent it to my wife and me with our Christmas Card. Now my eyes have dried after the emotional shock , I just have to put it on here to share with you all.
Every word is exactly as I remember him telling my own boys and their friends, (when he could be persuaded to talk about the Great War.)
The reference to Beetles is that when he was a boy himself Dad’s job was to draw the water from the well and then pick the bugs and beetles out of the bucket.
I hope you enjoy the read .Merry Christmas to you all. Roger.
It was the story of the drinking water that made me think of Mr Harris.
About 70 he lived on the corner when I was small.
Neat tended garden he had fought in the Great War.
A Kent country lad he drew his water from the well. A brimming bucket he said with beetles swimming in it.
From apple blossomed, dappled, country lanes, Kent he left
Or the battle fields of France..
A gentle peaceful man he fired a Lewis Gun.
“Did you kill anyone?” I wanted to know.
He wouldn’t tell me!
My older self ,now can see the remembered sadness in his face,
Of someone from quiet orchard and country side, to mud murder and death.
“Did you kill anyone?” I wanted to know .
He wouldn’t tell me but told instead of traps left behind in captured trenches. Of handsome Watches, Glittering prizes. Prizes that shattered bone and Sinew, left for the unwary to grab, unknowing of the bomb set to blow.
Mr Harris didn’t pick apples then but told me of picking up body parts .Not apple boxes but sandbags for the grisly harvest.
Mr Harris spent time in the garden, growing things with love and care.
A gentle man, he grew tomatoes in a greenhouse.
I would help him water, they have their own fragrance. Tomatoes in a greenhouse. Tangy ,growing, fecund they fill the air.
When I smell it now .I breathe in ,even many years later, it takes me back to warm sunny days .. 5 years old … of Mr Harris and of beetles swimming in a bucket.
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What brilliant prose. Thank you so much for posting :) :)
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I have bumped in case one of your ancestors is in the photo with Dad.
It is the Anniversary of the start of the Somme campaign today.
Dad was sent there as reinforcements a few days after the dreadful first day .
I remember him saying they wondered what was coming from behind them when the Tanks went into action coming over the top of our trench,s.
No one had told our lads in the trenchs about them and they were shocked to say the least.
He was stuck in the same trench until nearly Christmas, despite having toadvance and being beaten back several times.He was then moved further up to near Ypres
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Just a Bump up in case anyone recognises an ancestor among Dads mates in the photo .
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Here,s the photos I have finally found .I promised Forrester over 8 years ago.
The big parade was when the Yeomanry EKMR was inspected at Maresfield.
The group shot is the Regimental Officers .
The chap standing alone is the Regiment's Colonel Mackeson.
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Rog,
Thank you for the tip off.
I knew you would get there eventually.
Thanks for posting them.
Phil
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Great photos!
Thank you for posting & bumping.
The uncle of my Australian granduncle is rembered at Menin Gate.
Regards Rudolf
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My Dad, Private 683453 George E Harris. Royal East Kent Mounted Rifles , the subject of this post would have been delighted with the efforts and respect shown at the Passchendaele Centenary Remembrance programmes today. He was always very conscious and respectful of all his mates and the many others that fell beside him at Passchendaele and elsewhere during the 4 years they fought together.
He considered himself the lucky one to have come through alive after the horrors.. Although seriously wounded by shrapnel and a bullet. 40 years later he was still picking out bits of shrapnel as they worked the way out and surfaced below the skin . Disabled as he was ,he didn’t qualify for a pension just a Silver War Badge and a certificate from the King. (proudly displayed on my living room wall).
He would have been so pleased that the younger generations are being urged not to forget how much they owe to their forefathers that gave their lives to shape the course of history for them.
Rest in Peace Dear Dad 1896 – 1986.
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Time to bring my post to your attention again.
One of you may be lucky enough to recognise one of Dads Mates as your ancestor.
Happy New Year to All :)
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My Dear Dad , The subject of this post would have been 124 on his Birthday Yesterday. He died at 90 years old in 1986.RIP .God Bless Dad.
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Time for another bump up for my post.
Hopefully one of you will recognise one of Dads Mates as your ancestor.
Any way please read through the Pages and enjoy the topic.
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Hello ,Just bumping up my post in case you can see one of your Family among Dads Mates . Please read through the post if you are interested.
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Time for another Bump up. No one has ever found an ancestor with Dad in the title picture. Please read through the post, Thankyou.