Print Page - MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: krisesjoint on Monday 03 December 07 04:26 GMT (UK)

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 03 December 07 04:26 GMT (UK)

Ding and myself got a little sidetracked on one of his threads not relevant to the Martyn Family some time ago and since it is getting a lot of attention of late, due to Ding's discoveries re Jane Trinidad, I have decided to give the family their own thread. I think they deserve one

Re Jane Gertrude Trididad(e) nee Johns.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,309613.0.html

I have done a lot of work on that Martyn Family ;)

Actually they do come in as extremely distantly related to my family (complex female lines)

Kris :)

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 06 December 07 20:12 GMT (UK)

Hi Ding,

Hope you are about. I have been dying to hear more from you. Your Tree sounds horribly interesting. I know so much about this Martyn Family and the families they marry into ;D I just love St Columb Minor People :D The Martyn Window at the St Columb Minor Parish Church is quite amazing, and so are the gravestones.

Which of Thomas and Gertrude's children do you descend from?

Who does your tree list as the parents of John MARTYN = Gertrude HISCUTT 1763? Gertrudes parents were Gertrude Martyn (the daughter of Thomas and Gertrude Turnavine) who was married to Elias Hiscutt.

I know logistically who John has to be, but if that is so, then there is something which I really am not happy about and so it continues to niggle at me, so I tis rather curious what your tree says :'(

Kris :)

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Thursday 06 December 07 22:25 GMT (UK)

Hi Kris,

Where do I start!!
My line follows two paths, firstly Thomas Martyn = Gertrude Turnavine (one of my mothers names was Turnavine). Their daughter Margaret = Richard Johns, their son Richard = Gertrude Martyn who was the daughter of Joseph Martyn = Dorothy Warne (Joseph was a son of Thomas and Gertrude, Margaret's brother). Richard & Gertrude Johns had a son William who married Jane Lawer, their daughter was Harriet Johns.

Now we go back to another daughter of Thomas & Gertrude Martyn, Gertrude who married Elias Hiscutt. Their daughter, Gertrude Hiscutt = John Martyn (who is another child of Joseph Martyn & Dorothy Warne. John & Gertrude Martyn's son William = Mary Hiscutt & they had a son Silas Hiscutt Martyn.

Silas Hiscutt Martyn = Harriet Johns and their daughter Mary Jane is my Great Grandmother.
As you can see there are lots of cousins marrying!!!
If you want further info. don't hesitate to ask. I had to put it all down on a large piece of paper so that I could follow all the links. I have photos of Harriet Johns and Silas Hiscutt Martyn as well as photos of Tregunell (their home). I also have photos of various cousins.

I inherited a very interesting jug from mum which had Jane Trindade 1831 painted on the side. It turns out that Jane was an older sister of Harriet Johns who married a Joseph Trindade and ended up in a harem. She escaped by bribing the guards with jewelry and being delivered to an English ships captain in a wine barrel. She lived out her days in Crantock with some sisters. There is mention of a dark skinned son and the family tree shows a son Joseph.

I probably have you more confused by now so will finish and let you digest it all.

Cheers Ding.

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 06 December 07 23:32 GMT (UK)

Hi Ding,

Yes a really great family. Sounds like you have heaps. I too have heard of the rescue by her brother Captain Thomas Johns, in his ship the Liberty, of Jane Johns/Trinidad 1799-1872 and the story of a dark skinned son being born soon afterwards (he cannot be substantiated in the Parish Records)

I am very concerned about William son of John and Gertrude = Mary Hiscutt. Ohhohh goodness and this is your line. This is not how I see it ::) ::) ::)

I have Mary Jane (looks like I haven't followed her to marriage - Last I have listed is 1861 (baptism 19 Mar 1839 Crantock father gentleman of Tregunel) daughter of Silas Hiscutt and Harriet Johns as you mention and he the son of William and Mary (don't have than marriage, so did not know Mary's maiden name) Now sorry to say here is where we become horribly unstuck, cas I don't believe he is John and Gertrude's Son. :'(

William the son of John and Gertrude = Elizabeth Darke He was from Trevethick and is immortalised in Martyn Window :o
I did a bio on him for the Church

Here is a Photo of the Martyn Graves at St Columb Minor

John and Gertrude on the left, William and Elizabeth on the right and Williams brother John behind him.

Kris :)

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Friday 07 December 07 00:42 GMT (UK)

You are correct. I apologies there is a line on my sheet that crosses & I followed the wrong one. :-[
Silas' father William is the son of John's brother Thomas Martyn = Ann King.

The Wiliam son of Gertrude= John who married Elizabeth Darke is an ancestor of Mum's Cousin Peggy Aldis who I spoke of earlier (Martyn fanatic) I have most of the letters she wrote to Mum. She is in fact a desc. of both William = Mary Hiscutt and William = Elizabeth Darke. The name Darke appears in a number of places.

Re Jane Trindade (death cert says = Joseph Lourisico da Trindade, died Church Farm Crantock 9 Mar 1872. The only information I had came from the above Peggy Aldis and was sketchy. She had terrible hand writing and I cant work out where the harem was. She said her mother Mary Martyn (Johns) had visited her (Jane) in Crantock and saw the dark skinned boy. I wonder if the Capt. Thomas Johns was her brother?

I tried to download the pictures you sent but have been denide access. :'(

Now Mary Jane Martyn:
Marriage 1 James Major Cardell Feb 1864, James died 17 Nov 1864 of gastric fever.
Marriage 2 Richard Grose Pollard of "Bodieve" Egloshayle. Children Harriet Martyn 1874 - 1882 and Mary Louise 1877 - 1943.
Died 14 Apr 1886.

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Friday 07 December 07 00:57 GMT (UK)

Phew....Thank heavens for that - having a nervous breakdown about William as I knew I was right, and hearing this was your line.......What a relief - I do agree William 1767 - 1848 Crantock was the son of Thomas and Ann King ;D

There was a brother of Harriet and Jane called Thomas so presume he was said sea captian (I have 13 children to William Johns and Jane Lower) PLEASE NOTE: Thomas was found to be an accountant - It was brother William who was the Captain. Please see Jane Trinidad thread listed in first post

Will study these other things later....sounds like have some fascinating stuff for sure.

Here is the same Photo taken 100 years previously with the Ozzie Martyn Girls at the Grave of their gggrandfather John ;)

Different angle and without the ugly hall - isn't it lovely :D

I can't see any reason you would not be able to download the pics but will PM you ;)

Kris :D

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: vivien459 on Tuesday 17 June 08 20:56 BST (UK)

Hello there,
Just stumbled across your thread. My husband is a Martyn-Johns. We're not actively researching the family - I'll leave that as a retirement project for him one day - but was delighted to get a fuller version of the harem story. We'd heard someone was captured by pirates and brought back by her brother but I had never quite believed it.
We have a copy of a family tree (pretty literally - shows branches, roots etc) printed in the mid 19th century, tracing back to the mid 17th century (from memory). I assume you already have a copy yourselves, but if not, leave a message and I'll arrange to pass it on.

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Wednesday 18 June 08 00:37 BST (UK)

Hi Vivien459,

I was delighted to receive your post re Martyn/Johns tree. I have only been researching this since my mother died some 14 months ago and left me letters, photos, artifacts etc. (including Jane Trindades jug). I do have a copy of the tree you talk about. The original is in a sorry state so I have framed it to preserve it. Fortunately photocopies were taken of it a few years ago and I can read them.
I would be very interested to know where your husband fits into the tree. Maybe we will be able to exchange photos, information etc. Please keep in touch. Are you in the UK?

Regards Ding.

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: vivien459 on Wednesday 18 June 08 14:58 BST (UK)

Hello from England.

My husband is Richard Andrew M-J, son of Bradford Alfred M-J who is son of Rev Constantine Bradford M-J. CBM-J would have been born in the late 19th century. He died long before I came on the scene tho' I did notice that the UK national archives have his wartime diaries (1914-18) in their catalogue.
My father-in-law and his younger brother both have handed-down stories about their branch of the Ms and Js before (and after) farm bankruptcy overtook them and might well respond to letters. The mark on our copy of the tree suggests they are descended from John Johns (cousin of Mrs (?) Trinidad) and Mary Humphreys - no doubt one of them will be able to confirm that. Between them they are in touch with a family called Tremaine and also a huge tribe of Maunsells in New Zealand who are (I think) also descended from the Ms and Js.
As I said, my husband's family, not mine, but if any of this is of interest do let me know. Some M-Js are away at the moment but I foresee a lot of interest in the new information on the "captured by pirates" story when they return.

Kind regards,
Vivien459

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 19 June 08 00:19 BST (UK)

Hi Vivien459,

A big welcome to RootsChat. ;D

Here is a little I can tell you about your husband's line - Constantine Bradford JOHNS was baptised in Crantock on the 19 May 1886 son of Thomas Martyn Johns and Maria Annie Tremaine. In the 1891 census he can be found with his mother and some siblings at his grandmother Jane Tremaine's home in St Column Minor, while his father (described as a farmer) and some siblings are in Gloucestershire at the home of his uncle (mums brother) William H Tremaine. By 1901 the family are living in Cheltenham. Thomas is now described as "living on own means"

Now Thomas was not the son of John Bradford Johns and Mary Humphrey but rather the son of his brother Constantine Bradford Johns and Mary Martyn. Constantine Bradford Johns married twice - both of his wives were named Mary Martyn

If Hubby's family have any questions please ask

Cheers Kris :D

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Thursday 19 June 08 03:09 BST (UK)

Hi Kris, once again!

I noticed when like you I was tracing Vivien459's tree that there appears to be a Constantine B Johns son of Thomas M Johns born c1873 (1881 census) and another born 1886. Did the first one die?

Ding

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 19 June 08 04:04 BST (UK)

Hi again Ding,

I have 9 children to Thomas and Marie Annie.

Constantine Bradford JOHNS 1 bap 7 Jan 1873 Crantock father gentleman of Trevella (I forgot to say in previous post but Constantine B 2 baptism father was described same - gentleman of Trevella)

he was buried 1 Nov 1882 Crantock aged 9 years and 11 months of Trevella.

I note Vivien refers to them as M-J and I do note the name does appear to have become hyphenated with this branch of the family.

Cheers Kris :D

Title: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Thursday 19 June 08 13:09 BST (UK)

Dear Kris - and others

I'm another descendant of the Martyns of St Columb Minor - one of my
g4grandmothers being Mary Martyn (1770-1845), daughter of John M
and Gertrude Hiscutt. She married James Liddell (ca. 1765-1839),
who started a family business as printer and stationer in Bodmin in
about 1787 that lasted well into the 20th C.
They married in St Columb Minor in 1793, and had 10 children
(and about 40 grandchildren- virtually all the 19th C Liddells
in Cornwall are descended from them - so much easier to sort than
all those Martyns!). Their 4th son, William Liddell (1802-1854), was a
surgeon who emigrated to Madras with his family in 1833 and became
Coroner of Madras; the attached photo is of his eledest daughter,
my g2grandmother, Susan Gertrude Liddell (1828-1911), probably
from around the time of her marriage in 1847 to a scottish east
india merchant, George Walker (1818-1904). I have a diary of
theirs for 1860-63, when they were living in Wimbledon (with
George still running his company in Madras).

To return to the Martyns, I would love to see the window inscription
mentioned, and the tree showing descent from Thomas Martyn and
Gertrude Turnavine.

Most of what I know about the Martyns is based on Marianne Eastgate's
web pages -
http://awt.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=:1501551&id=I8&ti=5538
- which seems to be mostly accurate, though with a few minor errors.

Three questions:
1) ME's web pages give descent of both Thomas Martyn and
Gertrude Turnavine from the Mundy family of Ryalton (his mother,
one of her grannies), who came to Cornwall about 1540 from London,
where the ancestors included 5 Lord Mayors, including the Edward Shaa,
who is the Lord Mayor in Shakespeare's Richard III.
Do you think this line of descent is sound?!
2) ME gives Thomas M's dates as 1668-1774, implying he lived to 106
- can this be right, or is he being confused with another member of the
family?
3) Do you know the occupations or dwellings of the 18th C Martyns?
ME gives a few - e.g. Mary's brother Thomas, b 1774, was apparently
a doctor, as were two of his sons - one appears in the Wimbledon diary).
Also, her sister Gertrude married Samuel Symons (1769-1820), tenant
of Trerice, a manor now owned by the National Trust; and her youngest
brother Silas Edward M married a sister of the Samuel Symons (1779-1854)
who built the folly of Doyden Castle, also now owned by the National Trust.
I'd be particularly interested in any info on the direct line, i.e. John
-> Joseph -> Thomas -> ...

With best wishes

Denis Mollison

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 19 June 08 22:57 BST (UK)

Hi Denis,

A big Welcome to Cornwall ;D

Firstly what a lovely photo of Susan Gertrude Liddell. I knew nothing of William LIDDELL other than his baptism. I am going to split this to a separate thread as Ding's original thread was about a different family - we just got a tad side tracked with the Martyns, and we seem to have many joining us.

I am really going to have to study what you are saying and get back to you.

For Now - The Martyn Window I can show you. We became aware of this window as a chap I was helping had an old photo taken by his family when the returned to Cornwall on a visit in 1906. The Photo was titled The Martyn Window. I found mention of it in a book also and contacted the St Columb Minor Parish Church. The Parish Priest initially did not think the window was dedicated to a family as it depicted the resurrection but when he got a proper look sure enough it was there. The Window is the prominent window in the Church directly above the altar. Here is Peter's 1906 Photo

This New Photo was kindly provided by Chris the Parish Priest. The Martyn Window is in need of repair so if anybody connected to the family would like to see this piece of Martyn History preserved and is in the position to help, I am sure Chris would be delighted to hear from you. ;)

I did a biography for him at the time on William Martyn. Peter - the John and Gertrude descendant I was working with at the time is in Cornwall at the moment, so I look forward to hearing from him when he returns. I am sure he will have visited the Church. He was also hoping to learn more of the properties his family owned.

The full size of this photo is huge. 4.2 mb. The inscription is clearly visible

"TO THE GLORY OF GOD AND IN MEMORY OF WILLIAM AND ELIZABETH MARTYN OF TREVITHIC AND THEIR FAMILY
CHIEFLY THE OFFERING OF CAROLINE THEIR DAUGHTER IN THE YEAR OF GRACE MDCCCXC"

Cheers For Now................Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: kilmartin on Monday 23 June 08 10:40 BST (UK)

Hi all,

One query I had in looking at Marianne's tree compared with another tree (celtic-casimir) covering part of the same family, is who were the parents of Gertrude Bonython (mother of Gertrude Turnavine)? Gertrude Bonython married Nicholas Turnavine 19 Dec 1656 in St Columb Minor. Marianne has Gertrude's parents as John Bonython and Margery Tresilian. Celic-casimir has Gertrude's parents as John Bonython of Carclew and Gertrude De Burton.

Both tree's have the christening of Gertrude Bonython 2 Jun 1625 at St Columb Minor. I think the issue is really which John Bonython was the mother of Gertrude.

Any Thoughts

Kilmartin

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 23 June 08 11:56 BST (UK)

Hi kilmartin

Gertrude BONYTHON bap 2 Jun 1625 St Columb Minor father John

John BONYTHON Gent = Margery TRESILIAN Gent 8 Jan 1606 Newlyn East

John BONYTHON esquire = Mrs Gertrude BURTON 4 Dec 1648 Newlyn East

I believe John who married Gertrude Burton was probably Gertrude's Brother - the son of John and Margery bap 4 Apr 1619 St Columb Minor

Cheers Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: kilmartin on Monday 23 June 08 14:03 BST (UK)

Thanks Kris,

That makes sense - it looks like the Carclew Bonythons were a different branch than the ones in St Columb minor.

Many Thanks
Kilmartin

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Rosedale on Friday 11 July 08 23:00 BST (UK)

I'd like to thank you all of this extra information.
I never realised there was a window :D How exciting, and the information on the William of Madras!

I am about to contact dmollison as I too have connections with the Martyn/Liddell line.

I know I've got Bonython's on my tree somewhere too, best go have a look. :)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Wednesday 23 July 08 00:11 BST (UK)

While on the early Martyns, I notice that Ann Hiscutt = Capt. John Christian then she = John Budd 2May 1770 St Columb Minor. I have found that he was probably John Turnavine Budd. I also see that A Rev. Richard Budd (Curate of St Columb Minor) = Mrs. Gertrude Turnavine 7 Feb 1744. There is also a Rev Richard Budd (Clerk of Parish) = Mrs Jane Martyn 17 May 1764.
My question is;
1. Are the two Rev. Richard Budds the same man?
2. Who were Mrs Gertrude Turnavine and Mrs Jane Martyn's previous husbands?

Ding

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 23 July 08 02:02 BST (UK)

Hi Ding,

Same man I feel though not specified.

The Rev Richard BUDD curate otp = Mrs Gertrude TURNAVINE 7 Feb 1743 St Columb Minor

John Turnavine BUDD was baptised 11 Jun 1744 St Columb Minor son of Richard and Gertrude

Birth and then burial of last child Dec 1755 and then

Gertrude wife of the Rev Richard BUDD was buried 5 Jan 1756 St Columb Minor

17 May 1764.....BUDD The Rev Richard Clerk OTP = MARTYN Mrs Jane Spinster OTP by Licence. Both Signed. Witnesses: Thomas Salmon and John ?

As you can see Jane was single. Common among gentry to describe a gentlewaman as Mrs even when single (a symbol of her status) Same goes for Gertrude Turnavine the daughter of John and Thomasine baptised 22 Jun 1722 St Columb Minor. Looks like Jane is daughter of Thomas and Catharine 2 Feb 1721 but don't know who they are at mo. Hit send accidentally - still looking ::)

Cheers Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 23 July 08 03:19 BST (UK)

Righteo to continue:-

2 May 1770.....BUDD John Gentleman = CHRISTIAN Anne of Crantock by Licence Dated Apr 4. Both Signed. (John signed John Turnavine Budd) Witnesses: Joan White and Anne White

Doesn't mention Anne being widowed. I don't see a previous marriage :-\

Cheers Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 23 July 08 03:56 BST (UK)

The first marriage was in Looe 4 July 1754 to Captain John Christian. 2 children - daughter Ann and brother John born in Looe. daughter married Crantock son married Cubert.........Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Wednesday 23 July 08 04:53 BST (UK)

Hi Kris,
I was about to say the Capt. John Christian came from the Martyn tree but I see that you have tracked him down.
In the IGI it has 3 Gertrudes (daughter of John and Thomasine Turnavine) The first two I presume are the one person, 12 Feb 1710 & 12 Feb 1711. I presume this one must have died before the 23 Jun 1722. It seems a bit strange that she was refered to as Mrs. when only 20 years old.
I see Gertrude's sister Thomasine married John Martyn (son of Thomas Martyn & Gertrude Turnavine)
I cant see any children of Richard Budd & Jane Martyn.

Thank you for your efforts, its slowly coming into place.
Ding

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Tuesday 12 August 08 03:10 BST (UK)

Hi Everyone,
I was going through some old postcards and came across a picture of Penpol so I thought I would post it for the interest of other Martyn descendants.
I believe the picture was most likely taken around 1900 as my G mother stayed there at this time.

I believe that Penpol was the home of the Martyns from at least the late 1600s as I am told that Thomas Martyn = Gertrude Turnavine lived there.
It appears that Joseph Martyn = Dorothy Warne, Thomas Martyn = Ann King, William Martyn = Mary Hiscutt and their bachelor son William all lived in Penpol.
I think the house was sold in the 1970's.

I dont have any proof of the above except information in a few letters written to my mother by her Martyn cousin in Cornwall.

If anybody has any information on the house/ farm I would be interested.

Regards Ding.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Rosedale on Tuesday 12 August 08 14:29 BST (UK)

:o Thank you so much for that Ding.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Monday 25 August 08 05:44 BST (UK)

I am trying to follow the line of Margaret Martyn daughter of Joseph Martyn + Dorothy Warne.
As far as I can see she was born in 1745 and = Samuel Martyn 22 May 1766 in Crantock. They have a son Richard b. 3 Mar 1767 (St Columb Minor) after that it gets hazy. Did Margaret die in childbirth?
On the tree it looks as if their son Richard = Margaret Martyn 21 Dec 1793 (he is listed as a shipwright of Padstow) they have no offspring. Then he = Patty Inch and they have two children:

Richard = Elizabeth Lane they have about 9 children
John = Elizabeth Congdon they have 1 child

I cant find any reference to a Patty Inch or the deaths of the two Margaret Martyns.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 26 August 08 01:09 BST (UK)

Hi Ding,

Dont know about these two sons Richard and John. I have one son born and died to Richard and Martha INCH who married 16 Aug 1795 Padstow - Joseph b 31 Mar 1797 buried 1 Aug 1798. I can't see any others nor can I find anything on them. Do you have anything at all on these two alleged sons? I have spent so much time last night and again this morning and I cannot find baptisms or anything whatsoever further. There is a John = Eliza CONGDON 8 Aug 1835 in Stoke Damerel IGI but I don't see them in the census. Do you have any census or anything concrete? ................Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Tuesday 26 August 08 01:47 BST (UK)

Hi Kris,

The main thing I was going off is the drawn tree I sent to you some time ago. It shows 2 marriages for Richard Martyn. Samuel Martyn (his father) is in Roman print which means he married into the family of Thomas Martyn since 1696. I had also checked the IGI and OPC.

I havent looked at the census yet. If the first Margaret in Padstow died in childbirth the timing of the second would fit. I have come across a couple of mistakes on the tree before.

It looks as if the Stoke Dameral marriage fits this family.
???
Ding

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 26 August 08 02:18 BST (UK)

Sorry Ding,

Yes Margaret did die in Childbirth. I have been focusing in on these two sons. As you say we have found mistakes before. I sat here last night trying to find them with no luck. Didn't add a single thing I didn't already have. Hope you have better luck than me. If they had 2 more sons I would like to know where. There are other Martyn's in Devon so this marriage may not connect.........Kris

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Friday 29 August 08 04:52 BST (UK)

Hi,
Another puzzle from the Martyn Tree.
The tree shows Margaret Martyn( daughter of Thomas & Gertrude(Turnavine)) as marrying Richard Johns & them having only 2 children:
1. Margaret (who = Henry Rice)
2. Richard (who = Gertrude Martyn)

My first problem is that the OPC shows Richard Johns = Margaret Martin 7 Jan 1729 in Crantock. It gives the grooms residence as St Agnes.
Now the IGI for children of Richard Johns Chr. after 1729 in St Agnes shows:
1. James 1 Nov 1731
2. Thomas 1 Dec 1733
3. Richard 20 Nov 1734
4. Chesten 4 Feb 1737
5. Margaret. 1 Dec 1733.
I see there is another Johns family (Richard = Honor) with children of similar names but about 10 years younger in St Agnes.
I presume the first family are that of Richard and Margaret (Martyn) and they have 5 children and not 2 as the tree shows.

I think the second mistake on the tree is with Richard (son of Richard & Margaret) who is just shown as = Gertrude Martyn and having 7 children.
The OPC shows Richard Johns = Margaret Nicholls 19 Nov 1763 in Crantock. It also shows Richard Johns = Gertrude Martyn 15 Jul 1766 in Crantock. In this marriage Richard has a (w) next to him. I cannot find a death of Margaret Johns (Nicholls) between 1763 and 1766. It appears they (Richard + Margaret) had a son Richard Chr. 8 Sep 1764.

Hope this is clear.

Ding

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Friday 29 August 08 06:14 BST (UK)

Not sure about St Agnes Ding,

We do have 2 marriages there :-\

Richard JOHNS = Anne TREZISE 7 Apr 1722

Richard JOHN = Honnor MORRISH 28 Jun 1744

Now there are marriages in St Ag - Margaret = Francis HONEY 20 Aug 1768
Cheston = William GILL 24 May 1772 now Richard and Honnor had a Cheston also so she may be explained James JOHNS = Mary HARRIS 14 Jun 1772

Margaret Nicholls did die in childbirth. (buried at same time of sons baptism)

Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Friday 29 August 08 07:46 BST (UK)

Hi Kris,

Thanks for the reply, I guess I can go ahead and add the extra marriage (Margaret Nicholls) for Richard Johns with Burial 8 Sep 1764.

As for Richard's siblings I guess I was clinging to the fact that the OPC had his father's residence in St Agnes at the time of his marriage 1729 and the 5 children being born 1731 - 1739. What a pity the mother's name is not recorded.

I must admit that the two Chestens being born about 7 years apart has thrown me. I can only find the one marriage. The older one would be c35 and the younger c28. I have not come across that name anywhere else.

I see there is a record of Margaret Johns = Henry Rice of Falmouth ,3 Aug 1771 in Crantock.

Have you got any record of when Richard Johns snr. was born. I have Margaret (his wife) as 1704 - 1764.

Thanks again, Ding

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Friday 29 August 08 09:50 BST (UK)

Sorry Ding, I have nothing on Richard Johns and Margaret. I do not have Richards birth nor do I have their deaths. The 1764 burial I believe is Margaret Nicholls although age is not listed it is the same day as the sons baptism and Richard did remarry do it fits. It says wife of Richard which is not conclusive but the remarriage and the baptismal date for the son leads me to believe it is Margaret Nicholls.

Yes I have the 1771 marriage of Margaret to Henry Rice which does seem to corroborate the tree but we still have the Margaret marrying in St Agnes so I don't know what to think of these other baptisms. Like you I have not come across a Chesten in the families..........Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Tuesday 02 September 08 23:14 BST (UK)

(1) Ref the excellent photo of Penpol posted by Ding.
The house as shown looks all very much 19th century, I would
guess not earlier than about 1850. So it must have been
rebuilt or replaced since the time of (e.g.) Joseph Martyn (1701-84).

(2) Can anyone - Kris? - tell me who to ask for a copy of the family
tree of Thomas Martyn (b 1668?) that has been referred to several times on
this thread?

(3) .. and can it be true that this Thomas Martyn lived till 1774 as is posted on
the generally fairly accurate tree by Marianne Eastgate on "WorldConnect"!
I suspect he's being confused with one of his relations.

(4) I am still working on that comprehensive post of all the (C19th)
descendants of James Liddell and Mary Martyn (m 1793) - just some
census entries to check.

Denis

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 03 September 08 00:33 BST (UK)

Hi Denis,

Glad you are still with us :D

(1) Yes it is a wonderful Photo but only the home of one branch of the family. I am sure the family had many properties. Trevithick, Trebarva and Trevilly for sure prior to this and probably back to Rialton (The Munday's Home) and of course dependant upon which part of the family you are following later - Treloy, Trevemper, Polwhele spring to mind besides Penpol.

(2) Wonderful part of history is this tree from mid 1800's. I will not put the person on the spot. I will leave it to the lucky person fortunate enough to have it in the family to contact you privately if he wishes.

(3) No. This is wrong. In fact there are no burials for any Martyn's in 1774 and no burials at all in July, so I am quite certain this is wrong. Gertrude was widowed at burial 1 Dec 1752. I have Thomas's Burial as 15 Nov 1734 - though I can't be sure it is him without proof but I believe this is him. Unfortunately with just a name and date in this period, and given I don't see a will it is never 100% certain.

(4) Look forward to seeing this ;)

Cheers Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Wednesday 01 October 08 11:30 BST (UK)

Hello
I have just found this and as another descendant of Thomas & Gertrude am fascinated.

Thanks to the famous family tree, the contents of two boxes of papers in the possession of a cousin & many hours in the Cornwall Record Office (CRO) I have gathered a fair amount of information about the family and in particular the Crantock line & Johns connections.

The picture of Penpol caught my eye. I know for certain that Joseph leased the farm as sub tenant to Thomas Rickard who had inherited the tenancy from Thomas Symons in about 1717. The lease was for five and a half years and suggests that Joseph was already in possession. Leases were renewed until November 1801 when Joseph's grandson, William son of Thomas and Ann purchased it. My great grandfather, William, son of Silas Hiscutt Martyn and Harriet nee Johns inherited the property from bachelor uncle William in 1883 and later in that decade had the makeover carried out that resulted in the house shown in the photograph. I was taken there in 1951 when my father's cousin, son of his aunt, owned it. The last William Martyn and male heir of that line, died, shortly before his 22nd birthday in 1899.

Also there was mention of the date of the Ann Hiscutt /John Christian marriage at Looe. Do you know which church?

Best wishes
Di

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Wednesday 01 October 08 20:16 BST (UK)

Just realised I left out a vital date. Joseph's lease of Penpol farm was in 1735.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Thursday 02 October 08 00:32 BST (UK)

Hi Di,

Just read your very interesting post.

It appears that your great grandfather William and my great grandmother Mary Jane are brother and sister.

Thank you for the details on Penpol. My Grandmother stayed there in about 1904 and I believe took the photo.

Ding

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: MikeMJ on Thursday 02 October 08 12:56 BST (UK)

I have just come across this site having been advised of it by my cousin's wife Viven. I am a Martyn-Johns, my father was Thomas MJ his father Constantine MJ etc etc. The info about the family history has been very interesting.

I understand the Martyn-Johns name cane about in 1880 approx when Thomas Johns (married to Anne Tremaine) was asked by this Uncle Joseph King Martin (Captain RN) to take the name Martyn as he had no descendants

I have posted a few photos of the family I have some I do not know who they are any suggestions would be helpful.
(http://)(http://)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: MikeMJ on Thursday 02 October 08 13:01 BST (UK)

Some more photos

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: MikeMJ on Thursday 02 October 08 13:08 BST (UK)

and some more

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: MikeMJ on Thursday 02 October 08 13:10 BST (UK)

Sorry I have not got hang of attaching

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: MikeMJ on Thursday 02 October 08 13:32 BST (UK)

The unknowns

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: MikeMJ on Thursday 02 October 08 13:33 BST (UK)

2 more unknown

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Thursday 02 October 08 14:10 BST (UK)

Hi Ding

Yes I agree Mary Jane & William were brother & sister.

I thought you, and others, might like to see a photo of Aunt Trinidade (Jane Gertrude nee Johns.

Di

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Thursday 02 October 08 19:06 BST (UK)

Re Richard Martyn son of Samuel & Margaret Martyn

I can confirm that in 1814 Richard was alive & married and living somewhere near Plymouth Dock where he worked as a ship wright. He wrote a letter to his cousin William Martyn of Penpol on 31st July of that year. The IGI has a baptism record, in Stoke Dameral, 5 Feb 1799 which looks like his & Martha's son Richard. I have hunted & hunted through the census records but can find no families that seem to match either of those of the two sons on the family tree. Has anyone else found any trace?

Di

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Friday 03 October 08 03:12 BST (UK)

Hi Di and Mike,

A big welcome to RootsChat. We are all so glad you have found us. Looks like have some wonderful information and photo's to share. So good to see all the photos. After all we have discovered re Jane Trinidad it is so lovely to see her photo. I hope you don't mind Di, I will add a copy to Jane's thread. I am sure others involved in that thread will love to see it. :D

Sorry to say I cannot substantiate the marriage details for Captain John Christian and Ann Hiscutt :-[ I have just been over it and although the date is in notes, I cannot prove it. The two children were baptised in St Martin on Looe Bay

Cheers Kris :D

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Friday 03 October 08 08:08 BST (UK)

Hi Kris

Thanks for that. I have been hunting through the parish records in the Looe area for years (it seems) with no luck.
Yes of course add the photo to the other thread.
Di

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: terribrown on Saturday 27 December 08 07:01 GMT (UK)

Hi i am related to the Martyn family through the marraige of Mary Jane Martyn to James Major Cardell in 1861. Also Constance Martyn of St Colomb Minor married John Cardell about 1840. All this info I have just found from all of you is just great. My tree is growing by the minute.
I have heaps of info on the Cardell side up to the present if anyone is interested.
Sarah Curnow Elizabeth Susan Parminter Cardell (yes that is her full name)emigrated to Australia in 1855 and married into the Golley Family - they were originally from Veryan in Cornwall Terri Brown from Brisbane Australia

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: chucky on Saturday 10 January 09 21:34 GMT (UK)

hello, My name is Joanne and my maiden name was cardell. I was born on Truro in 1971 and I'm very keen to try and piece together a bit of my past. I must be honest and tell you that I know very little but you research seems very familier. As a small child I was told that my ancestors were quite well off and at some point a Cardell married a Martyn under unfavourable circumstances, I can only assume they married beneath themselves and were cast out. My grandmother died in 2000 and whilst i tried to get as much info as I could I still have unanswerd questions. I've inherited three family oil/watercolour paintings but know nothing about them. My grandfathers name was James Ernest Tremaine Cardell, born 1917; I know very little about his father and was hoping some of your research could piece some of it together. He was born in St Columb Major and a relative has said that theirancestors lived in a small hamlet /farm called Little Colan. Somehow I'm also related (all be it distant) to the family that resided at the lost gardens of Heligan and yes, you've guessed it! I don't know how!! Any information would be gratefully received, even if I'm on the wrong track! Kind regards, Joanne. P.S. We have sub zero temperatures here in the UK,Hope it's warmer where you are....

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: terribrown on Saturday 10 January 09 22:05 GMT (UK)

hi Joanne - yes I have loads & loads of info for you.
I will be away on a trip to Maryborough (3 hours north of Brisbane) until Wednesday but i will definately get back to you as soon as I get home.
Iwill send a printout of the Cardell -Martyn side if my family for you to peruse.
Terri Brown
Brisbane Australia

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: terribrown on Saturday 10 January 09 22:25 GMT (UK)

hi Joanne
i just looked at my tree and James Ernest Tremaine Cardell is my 4th Cousin twice removed. I have him born in 1914 but I could be wrong on that. I have his parents as James Tremaine Cardell (born 1891) and Gladys Maud Roberts. His grandfather was Harvey Cardell (born 1852)
Hope this keeps you going until I get Back.
I will send the printout to your email address. Terri Brown Brisbane Australia

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Saturday 10 January 09 22:51 GMT (UK)

Dear Joanne

It was easy with just freebmd.org.uk and the censuses on ancestry (but they're
also all there for Cornwall on freecen.org.uk) to get your Cardell line back to
John Cardell & Constance Martyn.
[Often one has problems with spelling errors in the census transcriptions,
but Cardell seems an easy name to get right.]

My notes are below - let me know if anything's not clear.

Not sure where Constance - and mother(?) Philippa - fit with my branch
of Martyns. Mary Martyn (1770-1845) was my g4-grandmother.
She married James Liddell in St C Minor in1793

Best wishes - Denis

----

Births Dec 1914
CARDELL    James E T    Roberts    St. Columb    5c   129

Marriages Dec 1913
Cardell    James T    Roberts    St. Columb    5c   197
Roberts    Gladys M    Cardell

Births Mar 1889
Cardell    James Tremain        St. Giles    1b   668

c1901 - Atlantic View, St Columb Minor -
Harvey Cardell Head M 45 Farmer b. St Columb Minor
Laura " Wife M b. Newlyn East
James T Cardell Son 10 b. London
--
Births Dec 1850
Cardell    Harvey        St Columb    9   61

Marriages Jun 1884
CARDELL    Harvey        Dorchester    5a   612
Tremain    Laura

Deaths Dec 1913 (>99%)
Cardell    Harvey    63    St.Columb    5c   100
--
c1881 - Harvey Cardell 25 is coachman at Rosedale House
(the accuracy of his age varies from one census to the next!)

c1871 - Poldick
Edmund Cobeldick 38 Farmer of 80 acres b Roseland
+ family + ..
Harvey Cardell 16 Farm Servant (indoor) b St Columb Major

c1861 - Cattle Market, St Columb Major
John Cardell Head Mar 46 General Labourer b St Columb Major
Constance Dean " Wife Mar 38 b St Columb Minor
Gilbert R Son 17 b St Columb Major
Harvey " 9 "
Martin " 6 "
Charlotte Ann Daur 1 "

Marriages Mar 1844
CARDELL    John Harvey        St Columb M    9   65
MARTYN    Constance Drew

c1841 - Church Town, St Columb Minor
Philippa Martyn 60 Ind
Elizabeth " 20
Constance " 20

Deaths Jun 1844
Martyn    Philippa        St. Columb    9   39

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 10 January 09 23:55 GMT (UK)

Hi all and welcome to Terri and Joanne our newest Martyn Researchers, lovely to have you with us.

I haven't had much time of late but while I am at home with the reader thought I would take a look. If there is a connection here to our main lines I find it hard to believe that any marriage into this Martyn Family would have been considered marrying beneath themselves.

Constance Drew MARTYN was not baptised until Mar 9 1839 St Columb Minor (received into the congregation) dau of Samuel and Philippa father farmer of Higher Porth "according to the solemn declaration of Philippa Martyn the mother and only surviving parent of this ....... ....... she was born on the 7 December in the year 1819 and was subsequently baptised privately by the Rev C H Paynter but the baptism was not enterred into the book at that time"

Samuel MARTYN of lower St Columb = Philippa DREW otp by licence 5 Feb 1807 St Columb Major Both signed witnesses sorry I cant read it. I think the first one may be a Martyn the other Philip ? and ? Bone.

Cheers Kris :)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Sunday 11 January 09 00:12 GMT (UK)

Right.

I am not seeing an obvious connection here but do not have time to study the tree so hopefully others will find it. These recoprds do tend to indicate these were also well to do families.

Samuel MARTYN aged 61 of Higher Porth was buried 18 Oct 1838 St Columb Minor

which seems to indicate

Samuel MARTYN was baptised 18 Nov 1776 St Columb Minor parents Samuel and Elizabeth

Samuel MARTYN otp officer in the customs = Elizabeth NICHOLLS otp spinster by Licence 12 Aug 1769 St Columb Minor both signed witnesses Thomas Nicholls and Richard Nicholls

Cheers Kris :)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Sunday 11 January 09 17:50 GMT (UK)

Hi All
I expect that people are aware that the first Samuel Martyn of Porth was first married to Margaret Martyn, daughter of Joseph, who died in childbirth. And while I am here does anyone have anything more on their son Richard's family than is on the tree? I know that Richard & his (second) wife were in Plymouth c1814

Best wishes

Di

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: chucky on Monday 12 January 09 15:19 GMT (UK)

Hi,
Thankyou everyone for the information posted so far. It certainly makes interesting reading.
Apologies for assuming the marriage of a Martyn/Cardell was somehow marrying beneath themselves, they were my grandmothers words many years ago. I know the Martyns were very well off, the oil painting I have took sometime to complete and the subject had to travel many times to London by horse and carriage, not cheap or easy by any standard!
Will have to have a look at the painting again to see if i can piece together who it might be...i'm pretty sure they are dated.

Thankyou also to Terri, look forward to receiving any info you have.

Joanne

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: maidmarianoops on Saturday 18 April 09 11:54 BST (UK)

LAVINIA PARMINTER CARDELL

http://www.andrewspages.dial.pipex.com/matlock/mi/mi_ht_yd.htm#174

Here lie the remains of LAVINIA PARMINTER CARDELL of Cornish ancestry born April 14 1842 died Sep 1 1924

found this name so thought i would peruse if it could be usefull

sylvia

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 05 May 09 04:12 BST (UK)

Hi All,

Hope you are all well ;D

We have a new member and a new Johns thread on interest.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,379533.0.html

Cheers Kris :)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: bcharles4 on Tuesday 01 September 09 19:51 BST (UK)

Quote from: dmollison on Thursday 19 June 08 13:09 BST (UK)

Dear Kris - and others

I'm another descendant of the Martyns of St Columb Minor - one of my
g4grandmothers being Mary Martyn (1770-1845), daughter of John M
and Gertrude Hiscutt. She married James Liddell (ca. 1765-1839),
who started a family business as printer and stationer in Bodmin in
about 1787 that lasted well into the 20th C.
They married in St Columb Minor in 1793, and had 10 children
(and about 40 grandchildren- virtually all the 19th C Liddells
in Cornwall are descended from them - so much easier to sort than
all those Martyns!). Their 4th son, William Liddell (1802-1854), was a
surgeon who emigrated to Madras with his family in 1833 and became
Coroner of Madras; the attached photo is of his eledest daughter,
my g2grandmother, Susan Gertrude Liddell (1828-1911), probably
from around the time of her marriage in 1847 to a scottish east
india merchant, George Walker (1818-1904). I have a diary of
theirs for 1860-63, when they were living in Wimbledon (with
George still running his company in Madras).

With best wishes

Denis Mollison

Do you have any more on James Liddell?

BC

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Symons Oz on Saturday 21 August 10 09:27 BST (UK)

Hi

Wow, what can I say, a veritable treasure trove of info on Symons, Martyns, Turnavines, Johns,, Bonythons etc - and new to this thread, by way of introduction, my line of ancestry begins with my grandmother Violet Symons, dau of William Henry Simons-(Elizabeth Jane Smith), son of John Symons (whose wife was Ann Musson), son of Samuel Symons (marr to Harriet Cobbledick), son of Samuel whose wife was Gertrude Martyn born abt 29 Nov 1766.

My mother Venus had her middle name as Gertrude, no doubt given to her by her mother Violet.

This Martyn-Symons/etc tree is a very difficult one, with so many inter marriages. I am at the perplexed stage but very appreciative of the efforts of so many to present this material that seems to go back, although I cannot directly show my Symons back to Shaa etc as yet.

I would love to make contact or hear from you cousins, if this thread is still going, the latest of which appears top be September 2009.

Cheers
Cuz Keith

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Ding on Saturday 21 August 10 23:55 BST (UK)

Hi Keith
Great to hear from another cousin. I found you in my records, and the programme says we are sixth cousins. Do I take it that you are a fellow Australian?

Ding

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Symons Oz on Sunday 22 August 10 14:23 BST (UK)

Hi Ding

Yes, I am an Australian living in Melbourne - hello to you sixth cousin or is that 3rd cousin removed three times! BTW - bhopw were you able to work out we were cousins? Maybe you saw Violet on the chart?

I hope to be able to add to this thread or the show the genealogy of my family to add to the 'confusion' although much of mine is straight forward - no cousins marrying cousins or choosing the second name of a friend who is also a cousin etc!

I don't know how to email you or use this rootschat off air to write to you but I wish to share anyway. I'd like to establish clear lines back to the beginning (no, not to Adam and Eve, that would be too easy when there are the Symons and Martyns to negotiate a path for me :))

Cheers
Keith

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 22 August 10 19:12 BST (UK)

Hi from another 6th cousin! And no, 3 times removed isn't appropriate, that would be if we were 3 generations different, whereas if I've counted right we're all 7 generations down from common ancestors John Martyn (1742-99) and Gertrude Hiscutt (1738-97).
I'm descended through their daughter Mary Martyn (1770-1845), who married James Liddell(ca. 1765-1839), printer and stationer in Bodmin, and had 10 children.

You say you are descended from her older sister Gertrude (1766-1844), who married Samuel Symons (1769-1820) of Trerice (I think that means he was tenant of the house now belonging to the National Trust and open to the public, though I'm not certain), and had 15 children (at least); two of whom married two of Mary's children (Gertrude Symons married James Liddell R.N., Elias Octavius Symons married Mary Liddell).
I think Ding is descended from one of JM/GH's sons.

As to going back further, Marianne Eastgate's info online -
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=:1501551&id=I8
- is mostly correct (a few small errors have been identified in these posts). I don't know if Marianne is still active - that page is dated 2001.

Two of the original sources are:

(1) http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Cornwall/visitations/index.html
(pages 337-8), which confirms the descent of Thomas Martyn (1668-1734)'s mother Margaret from the Mundys of Rialton, and thus from all those Lord Mayors of London.
[Though I'm a bit puzzled about the details of the early 16th century Mundys. And
I'm not sure where Marianne got her separate descent - in one generation less - of Thomas's wife Gertrude Turnavine from the first Cornish John Mundy.]

(2) .. and for the descendants of Thomas Martyn & Gertrude Turnavine there's the beautiful tree, going as far as their 160 or so gggrandchildren (that includes your Gertrude's contribution of 15 and my Mary's of 10) that Ding has.

Ding - is there any chance you could get a digital photo of the whole tree? I'm grateful for the photos of parts, but haven't been able to get them to stitch nicely together.

Best wishes (from Scotland - though I know North Cornwall quite well from childhood holidays)

Denis

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Country Lad on Tuesday 24 August 10 04:38 BST (UK)

Hi Kris and Ding

I must admit it was the mention of St. Columb Minor which actually caught my eye. In one posting I noticed the surname Morrish. That family was located around St. Enoder during the 1700s and there were a number of inter marriages between the Rickard and Morrish families. I am also certain that the Rickard-Martin combination also happened during the 1800s but I now need to find the actual event in my records.

regards
Peter Rickard
Melbourne Australia

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor - Floor plaque
Post by: Little_Family on Wednesday 01 September 10 17:59 BST (UK)

Hi,
My wife is descended from the James Liddell//Mary Martyn line.

We've just visited St Columb Minor and Bodmin with the Oz/NZ 2nd cousins who are from the same line.

When we were looking round the St Columb Minor church we saw some Martyn headstones and plaques that didn't seem to have been recorded on this forum so thought someone might be interested.

The floor plaque says:

Here lieth the remains of Thomas and
Margaret Elizabeth Martyn, son
and daughter of Samuel and Elizabeth
Martyn of this Parish. Thomas died
16th day of April 1790 aged 18
years and Margaret died 27th
of June the following aged 20 years

Grieve not for us our parents dear,
but for our sakes rejoice.
This God above so many more
hath made of us his choice

a lingering illness did our bodies seize
which neither time nor medicine could ease
till Heaven with tenderness surveyed our woe
and with a kind compassion gave the blow

Also near this place lies the body of
the above said Samuel Martyn who died
the 18th May 1792 aged 46 years.

I've taken a couple of photos but can't get them small enough to attach to this post. If anybody would like a copy, drop me a line.

Tim

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor - Headstones
Post by: Little_Family on Wednesday 01 September 10 18:04 BST (UK)

Ref my previous post. Here are the inscriptions that noted down from Martyn headstones in the St Columb Minor graveyard.

Hannah Martyn
In memory of Hannah daughter of William and Mary died 31st May 1866 aged 17

Thomas, William John and Mary
Thomas Martyn June 3 AD 1858 aged 62
William, his father, Jan 5 1828 aged 70
John, his uncle, 8 Jan 1836 aged 92
John’s wife, Mary, Dec 6 1849, aged 95

Mary Martyn
Mary Martyn aged 69 July 1875 gone home

Apologies if you've already seen them and again, if you'd like a copy, drop me a note.

Just about to add some similar posts to the Liddell thread.

Tim

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: mikeg13 on Monday 11 October 10 19:23 BST (UK)

Not sure if the Martyns in my tree are connected to those mentioned, my 2nd great grandfather was Samuel Martyn (b. about 1805) on the 1851 census shown as born in Looe Cornwall, he married Jane Minards (b about1814) shown born in Polperro Cornwall, they married in London in London 1833.
Think his father was a John Martyn but that was from other researchers and have found no confirmation of that

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: BarbaraCM on Saturday 26 February 11 06:45 GMT (UK)

Hi,

What an amazing forum to have googled upon! It is the first time in my research that I have found a forum on a family that I am part of. Thank you everyone. My husband is a 4th ggrandson of John Martyn m to Gertrude Hiscutt. He descends through Dr. Thomas Martyn's youngest son, Silas Edward Martyn (1818-1887) who married Mary Matilda Allin. I don't have any info on the Martyn's except what I have read here and would appreciate any info that any of you might have on this line. I have also just found M. Eastgate's tree and note that some of you see things differently. The attached is of Silas Edward Martyn.

Nice to be here. Barbara

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Little_Family on Saturday 26 February 11 11:04 GMT (UK)

Welcome to the forum Barbara,
John MARTYN and Gertrude HISCUTT are my wife's 4th Gt Grandparents. She comes down Mary Martyn's line.
I've got quite a bit of both the MARTYN and HISCUTT ancestors that I could send you if you're interested.
Not sure that I understand your husband's line. The only Silas Edward Martyn that I have is the youngest son of John and Gertrude (and married Meliscent SYMONS in 1820).
Tim

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Saturday 26 February 11 13:15 GMT (UK)

Quote from: BarbaraCM on Saturday 26 February 11 06:45 GMT (UK)

He descends through Dr. Thomas Martyn's youngest son, Silas Edward Martyn (1818-1887) who married Mary Matilda Allin. I don't have any info on the Martyn's except what I have read here and would appreciate any info that any of you might have on this line. I have also just found M. Eastgate's tree and note that some of you see things differently. The attached is of Silas Edward Martyn.

Dear Barbara

Have you seen the Martyn tree - of descendants of Thomas Martyn & Gertrude Turnavine who married in 1696? Silas Edward Martyn is one of their 160 or so ggg-children and appears just right of the top in the tree. His oldest 4 children also appear - which helps date the tree as being compiled between 1856 and 1858.

I have the diary of 1860-63 of my ggg-parents George Walker and Susan Gertrude Liddell, she being another of the 160, and a 2nd cousin of Silas E. This includes a few references to Silas E - referred to as "Edward Martyn" and to his son Charlie, who seems to have been a friend of, possibly at school with, her two oldest sons.
I append the extracts.

On details, yes, there are a few corrections to Marianne Eastgate's impressive file on the Martyns. Also, I think Silas E was born in 1816/7 rather than 1818 - all his census entries and his age at death suggest this.

Best wishes

Denis

-------------------
From Walker Diary 1860-3 - Dr Martyn is Dr William Martyn, brother to Mr
Silas Edward Martyn.

20 Dec 1861
A family dinner party. Dr. & Mrs. Martyn, Mr & Mrs.
Martyn, Emily and Mr. Byard and Mr Geach dined with us,
to meet Willie. The boys came home for the holidays this
afternoon, and all six were presented to the company!

16 Oct 1862
Anna and I went to town, saw Leech’s pictures, lunched
with Mrs. Edward Martyn and then saw the Gould show at
the Horticultural Gardens. I returned alone. Anna Findlay
and George (who met us at the Gardens) went to the
Kensington Museum. All at home by our usual tea hour.

4 Jul 1863
Mr. Nicholson and Mr. E. Martyn took tea with us.
Susie and Georgie at Surbiton to regale themselves on fruit.
Willie not at home until nine, having engaged to play a
match at cricket. Weather very warm and evenings most
pleasant.

26 Sep 1863
Boys home, and Charlie Martyn with them. George
at oﬀﬁce, altho’ it is Saturday. Weather decidedly getting
cold. I called on Mrs. Mackenzie.
27th Poor Mary Pearce died this afternoon. She has been dy-
ing for many weeks and has suﬀered very much of late. Her
mind was at peace, and she was quite ready to go. George,
Susie & I stayed to receive the sacrament.
28th. Rain today, and the boys are glad of their top coats.
Our ﬁrst ﬁre.
29th. The boys, with Charlie Martyn, and Bessie & Char-
lie Symons, and Willie and Alfred Garrett, and Ellen Mer-
riﬁeld and little Johnnie were here to dinner. Indeed the
boys arrived last evening, that they might have the whole of
Michaelmas day at home.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: BarbaraCM on Saturday 26 February 11 15:12 GMT (UK)

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your welcome. I haven't found Silas Edward's baptism yet. My link is through his marriage entry which shows Thomas Marytn - Surgeon as his father, and St.Columb as birthplace on all census. I was a little confused by Silas Edward's (b 1817) place in the Martyn family until yesterday when I found info that sorted me out. I would love the info you have. Thank you, Tim.

Barbara
Vancouver, BC

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: BarbaraCM on Saturday 26 February 11 16:33 GMT (UK)

Hi Denis,

No, I haven't seen the Martyn tree you mention. I have a digital copy of a scrapbook of Silas Edward's granddaughter Molly Emerson Chaworth-Musters when she writes that a copy of the Martyn tree is with Graham Martyn, 2 Temple Garderns, London. I haven't tried tracing that yet or figuring which cousin Graham is or where he fits into the Martyns.

Denis, the diary entries are amazing..... Something I never thought I would read. Thank you so much. Neither Charles nor Henry married... My husband Bob's ggrandmother, Emily Constance Maryn Emerson, was the youngest, living in variest places including Canada and Japan with her husband who was a doctor. Maybe a reason for Bob's Granny not having any Martyn things or documents that I remember. I am trying now to remember anything Granny said about the Martyns.

Curious, no baptism record for Silas Edward yet. Will you let me know about the corrections to M. Eastgate's tree.

I have tried to post photos of Charles and Henry on their ponies in India - the files seem to be to large.

So nice to hear from you, Denis, as well as Tim. Thank you again.

Barbara
Vancouver, BC

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: BarbaraCM on Saturday 26 February 11 16:37 GMT (UK)

Hi again Denis,

I forgot to ask where the Walker's were living at the time the diaries were written.

Thanks,

Barbara

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Little_Family on Sunday 27 February 11 08:41 GMT (UK)

Barbara,
Denis is the fount of most of the MARTYN info and I'd forgotten that you could see it online.
If you have a look at this page:

http://www.apac16.dsl.pipex.com//tree/fam/Martyn.html#770ML

You'll find John Martyn and Gertude HISCUTT and Silas Edward Martyn (their youngest).

My wife's family is through the LIDDELL line. Further down Denis' Martyn page you'll see that Charles Liddell married an Emma Unknown. That was Emma Jane Anderson BLUETTT. That's the bit of the tree that I can flesh out (though much of it was in India so it's not complete).

Tim

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: BarbaraCM on Friday 04 March 11 19:11 GMT (UK)

Hi Tim,

William H Liddell was my husband's ggrandmother's, Emily Constance Martyn's, godfather. She was baptized at All Saints Knightsbridge on 21 Sept 1861.

Barbara

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 06 March 11 20:55 GMT (UK)

William H Liddell features often in my gggfs' diary - he being a cousin of Gertude's. He's mainly referred to as William "Excellent" Liddell (after hs ship) to distinguish him from her brother William Byam Liddell who was just a couple of years younger.

Denis

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Thursday 26 May 11 11:02 BST (UK)

Hi all
Just come back to this after a while
If not already known Silas Edward Martyn son of Dr Thomas and Sarah nee Darke was baptised St Columb Major 21/4/1817.

Best wishes
Diana

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Little_Family on Thursday 26 May 11 11:54 BST (UK)

Diana,
Can you confirm who you've got as children of Thomas Martyn and Sarah Darke.
I've (tentatively) got:

Gertrude (b 1802 d Aug 1823)
Elizabeth (b 1803-5)
Sarah (b 1805-6)
Mary (b 1807-8)
Thomas Darke (b 1810 d 09 Feb 1891)
John (b 1814-15 d abt 1882)
William (b abt 1815 d Aug 1896)
Silas Edward (b abt 1817)

Thanks
Tim

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Thursday 26 May 11 13:01 BST (UK)

Here are my working notes for this family: please treat with caution!
They're from Marianne Eastgate's online tree which includes a few errors, to which I've been adding info from this thread.

I'll welcome any corrections

Denis

------

4 Thomas MARTYN Dr. b 1774 c: 16 APR 1774 d: JUN 1826
m. Sarah Darke 17 Nov 1801, Hatherleigh (SD: 1778-ca Aug 1852?)
5 Gertrude Kinuell MARTYN 16 Aug 1802 Hatherleigh, d: AUG 1823
5 Elizabeth Drew MARTYN 21 Sep 1803 Hatherleigh
5 Mary Darke Drew MARTYN 30 Aug 1805 Hatherleigh
5 Sarah MARTYN b 1806 Hatherleigh, c 18 Nov 1806 St Columb Maj
5 Mary Agnes MARTYN 5 Oct 1807 St Columb
5 Thomas Darke MARTYN Dr. c 11 Jul 1811 - d ca Feb 1891 St Columb
+ Mary Frances Glubb, m Liskeard ca Nov 1838
- d St Columb, ca Nov 1880, aged 65
6 Mary Frances MARTYN c 19 Feb 1841 St C Maj, bd 18 Mar 1843
6 Sydney Thomas MARTYN c 25 Jun 1842, bd 17 Feb 1843 (7 mos)
6 Frances MARTYN b 10 Feb 1844, bd 27 Aug 1910 (of Ashleigh, St C)
6 Janet MARTYN c 7 Aug 1845, bd 15 Jun 1865, aged 20
6 Sydney Glubb MARTYN c 24 Aug 1849, d Dec1876 Ongar, aged 27
6 Emily Lyne MARTYN c 24 Aug 1852, bd 1 Jun 1934, aged 81, of Ashleigh, St Columb
5 John MARTYN - 9 Nov 1814, d 1882
- clergyman, Vicar of Ibberton, Dorset
+ Margaret Alner Harvey, c 6 Mar 1833, m Jun1856 Sturminster
5 William MARTYN - 30 Sep 1815, d ca. Aug 1896 Wandsworth
- doctor, in Kensington 1851, 1861
+ Elizabeth Bowen Pridham, m ca. Feb 1854 Bath
- Elizabeth Bowen Reed, b 1821/2 Brittany, d ca. May 1898 Wandsworth
m1. 6 Jul 1848 (Clifton) John Drake Pridham (?1812/3-ca.Feb 1853)-> Mary b. 1849 Mauritius
6 Orlando Bridgman MARTYN - b 1855
6 William Edward MARTYN - b 1856
6 Edith Mary MARTYN - b 1857
6 Constance Elizabeth MARTYN - b 1859
5 Silas Edward MARTYN - c 21 Apr 1817, d ca Nov 1887
- (Edward) - warehouseman / East India merchant
+ Mary Matilda Allin, m Wandsworth 7 May 1850
6 Isabel Allin MARTYN
6 Charles Edward MARTYN
6 Henry Allin MARTYN
6 Florence Mary MARTYN
6 Alice Maud Martyn - b ca. Feb 1858 Kensington
6 Ellen Darke Martyn - b ca. Nov 1859 Kensington
6 Emily Constance Martyn - 18 Aug 1861 Kensington
6 Thomas Allin Martyn - b ca. Aug 1863, d ca. Aug 1868
6 ?Ernest William Martyn b ca. Feb 1869, d ca. Nov 1869
5 Ann MARTYN [?? - might mean Mary Agnes]
5 Maria Darke MARTYN - c 30 Mar 1818
+ Thomas TRELOAR, m Enoder 19 Sep 1845
6 Charles Edward TRELOAR c 25 Mar 1847 Kenwyn
6 Henry Martyn TRELOAR c 28 Jan 1849 Kenwyn
6 Maria Louisa TRELOAR c 1 May 1851 Kenwyn

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Little_Family on Thursday 26 May 11 13:16 BST (UK)

Denis,
I notice you haven't got Silas Edward down as a son of Thomas Martyn and Sarah Darke so I'll be interested in Diana's reply.
Tim

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Thursday 26 May 11 15:23 BST (UK)

Tim - this is a misunderstanding. All those numbered "5", including Silas Edward, are children of Thomas and Sarah - the numbers are generations down from Thomas Martyn / Gertrude Turnavine; thus the "6"s are children of the "5"s, e.g. Isabel Allin Martyn is Silas Edward's oldest child.

Denis

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Little_Family on Thursday 26 May 11 15:42 BST (UK)

Denis,
Thanks for phrasing it so politely! I'll put it down to a senior moment.
Tim

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Thursday 26 May 11 18:01 BST (UK)

Hello Denis

I have some dates for Thomas & Sarah that may be new to you but as I am off to Cornwall tomorrow for a week details will have to wait until I return.

Diana

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Diam on Sunday 05 June 11 18:09 BST (UK)

I had hoped to highlight additions to Dennis's post in red but haven't succeeded. If anyone would like a copy of the file I have created please send me an email address.
Full dates without a source are from graves & parish records. I'd welcome further information /corrections
Diana

4 Thomas MARTYN Dr. b 1774 c: 16 APR 1774 d: 7/6/1826 bur St C Major 11/6/1826
m. Sarah Darke 17 Nov 1801, Hatherleigh (SD: 1778 bap 11/2/1778 (IGI) died 17/9/1852 bur St C Major 22/9/1852
5 Gertrude Kinuell ?Hiscutt MARTYN 16 Aug 1802 Hatherleigh, d 10/8/1823 bur St C Maj 14/8/1823
5 Elizabeth Drew MARTYN 21 Sep 1803 Hatherleigh
5 Mary Darke Drew MARTYN 30 Aug 1805 Hatherleigh prob died 1885 in Plymouth area
5 Sarah MARTYN b 1806 Hatherleigh, c 18 Nov 1806 St Columb Maj prob died 1888 Plymouth area (In Plymouth with Mary 1881)
5 Mary Agnes MARTYN 5 Oct 1807 St Columb
5 Thomas Darke MARTYN Dr. c 11 Jul 1811 - d 9 Feb 1891 St Columb (Probate record)
+ Mary Frances Glubb, m Liskeard 25/10/1838
- d St Columb, 9/12/80 (Probate) aged 65
6 Mary Frances MARTYN c 19 Feb 1841 St C Maj, bd 18 Mar 1843
6 Sydney Thomas MARTYN c 25 Jun 1842, bd 17 Feb 1843 (7 mos)
6 Frances MARTYN b 10 Feb 1844, bd 27 Aug 1910 (of Ashleigh, St C)
6 Janet MARTYN c 7 Aug 1845, bd 15 Jun 1865, aged 20
6 Sydney Glubb MARTYN c 24 Aug 1849, d 19/11/1876 (probate) Ongar, aged 27
6 Emily Lyne MARTYN c 24 Aug 1852, bd 1 Jun 1934, aged 81, of Ashleigh, St Columb
5 John MARTYN - 9 Nov 1814, d 9/2/1882, bd 15/2/1882 Ibberton
- clergyman, Vicar of Ibberton, Dorset
+ Margaret Alner Harvey, c 6 Mar 1833, m 27/5/1856 Sturminster Newton, d 30/4/1888 (Sherbourne-probate) bd 4/5/1888 Ibberton
6 George Horace Martyn b.Apr/Jun 1858-Ibberton Dorset
m Mary Eleanor Fendall b.Abt 1863-Windlesham Surrey;m.Apr/Jun 1886
6 Margaret Emma Martyn b.Jan/Mar 1860
6 Mary Frances Martyn b.Oct/Dec 1862-Sturminster Newton Dorset) m Robert Moore Bridge Oct/Dec 1888
6. Susan Maria Martyn b.Jan/Mar 1866
6 John Darke Martyn b.Oct/Dec 1871-Ibberton Dorset
5 William MARTYN - 30 Sep 1815, d 21/ 9/1896 (probate) Wandsworth
- doctor, in Kensington 1851, 1861
+ Elizabeth Bowen Pridham, m 17/1/1854 Bathwick (Newspaper)
- Elizabeth Bowen Reed, b 1821/2 Brittany, d ca. May 1898 Wandsworth
m1. 6 Jul 1848 (Clifton) John Drake Pridham (?1812/3-ca.Feb 1853)-> Mary b. 1849 Mauritius
6 Orlando Bridgman MARTYN - b 30/11/1854, bap 31/1/1855, Holy Trinity Brompton Rd
6 William Edward MARTYN - b 16/1/1856 bap 16/2/1856, Holy Trinity Brompton Rd
6 Edith Mary MARTYN - b 17/10/1857 bap 18/11/1857, Holy Trinity Brompton Rd
6 Constance Elizabeth MARTYN - b 18/11/1859 bap 28/12/1859, Holy Trinity Brompton Rd
6 Herbert Reed Martyn b 11 May 1861. bap 29/6/1861 Holy Trinity Brompton Road London
6 Beatrice Martyn 16/11/1862 in Knightsbridge London. bap 24/12/1862 in Holy Trinity Brompton Road London.
5 Silas Edward MARTYN - c 21 Apr 1817, 7/11/1887 (Probate)
- (Edward) - warehouseman / East India merchant
+ Mary Matilda Allin, m Wandsworth 7 May 1850 Holy Trinity Clapham d ca Nov 1870 Christchurch
6 Isabel Allin MARTYN b ca May 1851
6 Charles Edward MARTYN b ca Nov 1852
6 Henry Allin MARTYN
6 Florence Mary MARTYN b ca Aug 1856
6 Alice Maud Martyn - b ca. Feb 1858 Kensington
6 Ellen Darke Martyn - b ca. Nov 1859 Kensington
6 Emily Constance Martyn - 18 Aug 1861 Kensington
6 Thomas Allin Martyn - b ca. Aug 1863, d ca. Aug 1868
6 ?Ernest William Martyn b ca. Feb 1869, d ca. Nov 1869
5 Ann MARTYN [?? - might mean Mary Agnes]
5 Maria Darke MARTYN - c 30 Mar 1818 d ca May1900
+ Thomas TRELOAR, m Enoder 19 Sep 1845 d 12/8/1880 Plymouth (probate)
6 Charles Edward TRELOAR c 25 Mar 1847 Kenwyn
6 Henry Martyn TRELOAR c 28 Jan 1849 Kenwyn
6 Maria Louisa TRELOAR c 1 May 1851 Kenwyn

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor /Crantock
Post by: fizzybubble on Friday 20 April 12 10:24 BST (UK)

I wonder if anyone is still following this.

I have been helping someone to research Elias Martyn son of Richard Martyn and Ann Mugfer St Austell.

I have traced Richard Martyn's possible baptism to 1741 St Austell parish register where it says he is the son of Paul of St Columb Minor. This would seem to put his parents as Paul Martyn and Thomasine Turnavine. They had one other child, Paul who died.

It would also seem to fit in with his eldest son being called Elias Martyn - a name used by his uncles for their siblings.

He is an important part of the tree as he went on to own Carthew in St Austell and son Elias became important in the china clay industry and his descendants made many impressive alliances in marriage.

Fizzy

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 21 April 12 19:06 BST (UK)

Hi Fizzy,

I was somewhat confused here as I do not know of a Paul MARTYN. This Elias comes up in my work though his second wife (no issue) On Checking what I have - yes the son of Richard MARTYN (a mercer) and Anne MUGFUR. If I have the correct Richard, he was buried 16 Jan 1814 aged 69, so born about 1745. Possible baptism 3 Mar 1741 father John. I had John as = Pascos RICKET 23 Sep 1732 St Austell. Only other baptism I found is Jone 24 Jun 1733. I have not connected them to the St Columb Minor family.

The only Thomasin TURNAVINE I am aware of married John MARTYN. They lived in Crantock and to my knowledge had only one child John 1745-1746. The MARTYN tree gives them no issue.

The other Elias MARTYN's are from the St Columb family. They appear to be named Elias for their grandfather/great-grandfather Elias HISCUTT. (which would not appear relevant to the St Austell Elias.)

Cheers Kris :)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: fizzybubble on Saturday 21 April 12 19:52 BST (UK)

Now I am confused.

Richard bap 1741 St Austell with father Paul of St Columb Minor are you saying he is not the Paul Martyn who married Thomasine Turnavine ? If not, why not ?

Fizzy

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 21 April 12 19:55 BST (UK)

As far as I am aware there is no Paul MARTYN of St Columb. ??? The only Thomasine TURNAVINE I am aware of married John MARTYN of Crantock.

Kris

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: fizzybubble on Saturday 21 April 12 20:13 BST (UK)

I have just checked that St Austell register.

I mean John. Wrote down Paul - one of those senior moments.

So if he was John of St Columb, he seems to fit with Thomasine Turnavine. Do you think that is a possibility now ? John and Thomasine had a son John who died, leaving Richard as an only child.

He seems to fit nicely with that family, calling his son Elias and his daughter Catherine married someone from Crantock.

I see there is a will for Richard Martyn 1814 - may be worth getting.

Fizzy

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 21 April 12 20:23 BST (UK)

MMM I have doubts Fizzy. I just looked at the original register and yes it says father John of St Columb Minor. John MARYN and Thomasine TURNAVINE were of Crantock. He was a husbandman/gentleman. The MARTYN tree gives them no issue. (admitedly its not foolproof) This couple lived in Crantock, their son was born and died in Crantock. They both died in Crantock. I believed they had no issue. ???

Kris :)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: fizzybubble on Saturday 21 April 12 20:30 BST (UK)

I was fishing because he called his son Elias.

OK so who do you think this John of St Columb Minor is ?

Fizzy

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 21 April 12 20:47 BST (UK)

I thought he was the son of John and Pascos Fizzy, (but I have never seen the of St Columb Minor before.) ???
I haven't traced Richard's other children. (and yes there is a will for Richard ) As I said my interest in this Elias was his second wife.

Even looking at John and Thomasine and a connection to these other Elias MARTYNs, it is quite removed. (They would be the grandson and great grandsons of this John's brother Joseph. These Elias' appear to be named for Elias HISCUTT who they are descended from. I don't see a will for John and Thomasine.

Kris :)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: fizzybubble on Saturday 21 April 12 23:12 BST (UK)

Another query.

On the Martyn tree John Martyn who married Gertrude Hiscutt in Helston in 1763 is stated as being the son of Joseph BUT on the marriage entry he is recorded as John MARTYN Junr which I think means he was the son of a John and not a Joseph.

Fizzy

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Wednesday 25 July 12 09:04 BST (UK)

Dear fizzy bubble / krisesjoint

I don't think "Junior" is so restricted in its usage, though I'll be happy to be corrected by those with more experience of similar C18 register entries. My guess is that it's distinguishing this John Martyn (1742-99, the one with 55(?) grandchildren in the Martyn Tree, and a prominent tomb at St Columb Minor) from his uncle John Martyn (1698-1782 ?).

Uncle John is the one who married Thomas Turnavine. I have the marriage as 12 May 1739 St Columb Minor, which would fit with your Richard being their son.
Krisesjoint - where do you get the strong association of John with Crantock from? His parents were married, and he and all his siblings christened, in St C Min, tho' his mother at least came from Crantock. [And Crantock and St C Min are next door to each other - from my memory of the map, Trevithick where some of the Martyns lived is almost on the border of Crantock - is that right? - so that whether they were christened/married in one church or the other may not be so significant.]

Best wishes, Denis

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: SKIRO on Friday 27 July 12 18:11 BST (UK)

I have a family tree beginning with Thomas Martyn and Gertrude Turnavine - have some docs and pictures which I am happy to share, and which may be of interest, but haven't yet worked out how to post. Any help would be appreciated.

Skiro

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Friday 27 July 12 21:26 BST (UK)

Dear Skiro

Thanks. How does your tree compare with the one by "marianne1" at
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=:1501551&id=I8
?
I keep a copy of this with some additional notes.
It seems to be partially based on the beautiful tree produced in the late 1850s showing Thomas & Gertrude and their descendants for 4 generations - giving them 160 g-g-g-children.
As this and related threads have revealed both have minor mistakes but seem generally very accurate.

We really need an editable version of marianne's tree that we could all edit!

best wishes - Denis

Marianne1 also goes back a lot earlier, particularly through the Mundy family to the 16th century.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Goldberry on Sunday 20 January 13 09:59 GMT (UK)

Hi everyone

I've been reading this post with interest.

However, my link with the Martyn family is a little earlier than those mentioned above, by way of the marriage of Mary Martyn (1623 St Enoder) to Luke Bice (1613 St Enoder). They married 30 Jan 1643 in St Enoder.

I believe Mary was the daughter of Nicholas Martyn (1573 St Columb Minor) and Ann Ryccard/Rickarrd (1591 St Enoder), who were married in St Enoder on 4 Jun 1613.

If I have the correct Nicholas Martyn, then the records say his father was John Martyn.

I have found a number of records for John Martyn of St Columb Minor, including two marriages:

1) Elyzabeth Nankevall 26 Apr 1579, of which the children appear to be:

1576 Margarett
1580 Thomas
1582 Elyzabeth
1583 Stephyn
1584 Dorothie
1586 Margery
1587 John
1589 Mary
1590 Henry

2) Catherine (Unknown) 29 Sep 1590, of which the children appear to be:

1593 Jone
1599 Catheryne

As Nicholas was baptised in 1573, I'm not sure what to make of that. Was there only one John? Did he marry three times? (I recently found another ancestor who married three times)?

I'd be interested to know if anybody else has researched this part of the family.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 20 January 13 13:11 GMT (UK)

The intervals between baptisms are rather irregular and some very short, e.g. 10 Aug 1589 to 8 May 1590 is only 9 months. [I'm not certain whether old style, with the year ending in March, is being used here, as it would have been in the original register, but for this example it doesn't matter.]
So perhaps there were two overlapping sequences of births with different John Martyn fathers.

The mention of John Martyn & Elyzabeth Nankevall, m St Columb Min 26 Apr 1579, reminds me they come into the putative ancestry of the Thomas Martyn (1668-1734) with many descendants; see:

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=:1501551&id=I8

This tree gives Thomas's father Richard as a son of John & Elizabeth, but there seems too long a time gap. I've just looked at the Cornwall OPCs online, and a more plausible line would insert an intermediate generation, as follows.

Thomas, c 20 Feb 1580, son of John Martyn and possibly Elyzabeth Nankevall, could be the father of seven children christened 1607-1624 in St Columb Min, of whom the fifth is Richard, c 25 Apr 1619. He'd be a little old to be father of Thomas, but not impossibly so (m 1668, Margaret Mundy b 1644). Further he is quite likely the Richard Martyn Senr. buried 26 Dec 1693 St Columb Min.
["Senior" as opposed to another Richard Martyn buried 29 June 1693.]

This is all rather speculative - can anyone disprove or support?

Denis

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Goldberry on Sunday 20 January 13 18:41 GMT (UK)

It's just a thought....but might Nicholas be a brother of John who married Elizabeth Nankevall?

If John was bap 1554 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M4HT-53K), then it is feasible that he could have a brother bap in 1673.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 20 January 13 21:32 GMT (UK)

Those ancestral file dates of birth - 1554 for John M, 1558 for Elyzabeth N - look fictitious to me.
It's a common, and very annoying, feature of this kind of "Ancestral File" to invent birth dates: here they look to have been chosen so that the man was aged 25 and the woman 21 at marriage.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: SarahofCrantock on Sunday 27 January 13 21:24 GMT (UK)

That is interesting, what makes you think the dates are invented?
I am just joining in but my mother's remark about Jane Trinidad is noted way back in the discussion, as I remember it my Grandmother, Mary Martyn Martyn did not see the boy Joseph, she saw Jane as an old and embittered lady who lived alone with one companion or servant.
Jane Gertrude Johns was born about 1800, married Jose Lorenzo da Trinidad by licence in Mawnan Church on 25th of July 1821. In May 1822 a son was born and on June 18th 1822 Joseph Trinidad, son of Jane and Jose Trinidad, was buried in Mawnan. I was interested to see the photo and to learn she lived at Langurra. in Crantock I only knew she lived somewhere in Crantock Churchtown. In fact a surprising number of seafarers and villagers from coastal districts were captured by pirates and funds were often raised for their ransom. A varied collection of yarns have gathered around the Jane Trinidad story so it is not easy to tell fact from fiction.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Monday 28 January 13 09:47 GMT (UK)

Ref. SarahofCrantock - "That is interesting, what makes you think the dates are invented?"

These dates - 1554 for the birth of John Martyn and 1558 for the birth of Elyzabeth Nankevall - are unlikely to be from baptism records, because (1) records for St C Min only seem to start in 1560 (according to OPC Cornwall site) and (2) they don't give day and month. So if they are true, they probably come from some source (marriage, burial, will) that gives age in years; that also seems unlikely - I haven't come across examples in 16th century Cornish marriage or burial registers though perhaps there are some.

So the alternative explanation, that they're invented by a family historian, seems much more likely.
I've seen lots of examples of that, and basing them on the woman's age at marriage as 21 and the man's as 25 is common.

It's a very annoying habit, because on the occasions where the bride and groom's ages at marriage are genuinely given (as is fairly common in nineteenth century registers) it can be very useful information.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: SarahofCrantock on Monday 28 January 13 12:00 GMT (UK)

Thanks for the explanation. Maybe those were the ages when people suddenly realised they had better get married or they would miss their chance or perhaps later generations thought so.
How far back has the family line gone so far ? I see there was a John Martyn who had been a cannon at Crantock and was replaced when he died by a William Langton on 18th August 1395, according to the records of Bishop Stafford but I don't know if he was one of us.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: SarahofCrantock on Monday 28 January 13 13:57 GMT (UK)

Any idea when families started recording important events on the fly leaf of the family Bible?

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: fastfusion on Monday 28 January 13 17:37 GMT (UK)

there are numerous entries to do with the Martyn family in

Cornwall - BIBLIOTHECA CORNUBIENSIS. PDF

here is part of the general index>

Martyn, Gertrude d 1707 wife of Nicholas Martyn 613
Martyn, rev. Henry d 1812 missionary in India 338-40,
1275-76 lecture on 301 letters of 189 memoir of 321
verses on 1026
Martyn, John of Gwennap sons of 338, 340
Martyn, John d 1800 clerk to Thos. Daniel 340
Martyn, John Darke d 1877 of Padstow 1276
Martyn, Mary F. d 1880 wife of T. D. Martyn 1275
Martyn, Eichard d 1850 computer for nautical almanac
340
Martyn, Eichard i 1816 patentee 1276
Martyn, Eobert copper smelter 341
Martyn, Thomas d 1751 surveyor and map maker 243,
341
Martyn, Thomas Darke 5 1810 surgeon 726,1275
Martyn, William Williams d 1878 patentee 1276

the number at end represents page number in the book

the book can be found online as a downloadable pdf worth having for folk who do cornwall as it often gives information often not found about occupations etc

:)

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: SarahofCrantock on Monday 28 January 13 18:12 GMT (UK)

Thanks for that list, I have heard about some of them, seen the Map of Cornwall at Lanhydrock and got a book on the, rather short lived, missionary. I shall enjoy finding out more about the rest.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Peterhastie on Monday 01 April 13 17:00 BST (UK)

On holiday in Crantock and found this in the church

Apologies if this has been posted before and for the quality of the picture

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Tuesday 02 April 13 00:01 BST (UK)

Joseph King Martyn appears on the Martyn Tree as marrying Kate Pike - is that the same as "Catherine Pengelly Martyn"?

There was a long thread on his cousin William Trewartha (1798/9 - 1869) five years ago - see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,288504.0.html

Denis

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Goldberry on Tuesday 02 April 13 08:02 BST (UK)

With regards to my previous post about children of John Martyn - the information was gained from the Family Search Website: https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Amartyn~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Acornwall%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1570-1600~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3AJohn~

I also thought the births looked close together, which is why I asked whether there was perhaps more than one John.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: AbiLynne on Wednesday 08 October 14 18:03 BST (UK)

Hello Everyone! Just stumbled across this forum last night so of course I had to join. I hope I am not too late to participate.

My husband is on the line from John Martyn & Gertrude Hiscutt:
-their son Thomas m Sarah Darke
-their son John m Margaret Alner Harvey
-their son George Horace m Mary Eleanor Fendell
-their son Robert Cecil m Gladys Vera Day (in Saskatchewan, Canada)
-their son George Robert m Kathleen Irene Mang (in Saskatchewan, Canada)
-their son is Charles Robert (my husband)

We have recently lost George Robert and now have possession of all his genealogy files, including the tree diagram created by S.S. Martyn, March 1856.

My first question for the group, based on going through the tree diagram: is there some 'cousin on cousin' marriages in this family? It looks like it but I don't want to assume.

Hope to hear back soon.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Monday 20 October 14 17:38 BST (UK)

Yes, quite a few marriages between first cousins.

For a start, John Liddell and Gertrude Hiscutt were cousins - inbreeding doesn't seem to have had too bad an effect, seeing that they managed 55 grandchildren! And some of those intermarried, for instance daughter Gertrude Symons's daughter Gertrude married Mary Liddell's son James.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Demitrius on Tuesday 05 July 16 12:36 BST (UK)

Hello - I have a Martyn ancestor and I would be most interested to know more about your research into the family. I visited the church at St Columb Minor this week and had a chance to inspect a number of the Martyn tombstones and of course the east window. It is dedicated (1890) to William and Elizabeth Martyn. Do you know anything about them?

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Tuesday 05 July 16 13:21 BST (UK)

Yes, I can place them on the Martyn tree; I've pasted him and his children below. He was son of John M (1737-99), son of Joseph, son of Thomas ..

How do you connect to the C19 Martyns?

Denis

4 William MARTYN b: 1775 c: 27 DEC 1775, of Trevithick?
- drowned in the Gannel (estuary, Crantock/Newquay) 15 Oct 1815 acc. Bibliotheca Cornubiensis
- m Elizabeth Darke 11 Nov 1802, Hatherleigh
5 John Darke MARTYN b: 1804 - d 1877
- b Trevithick, 30 Nov 1803, d Padstow 27 Jan 1877; m 29 Jan 1834 Bodmin SSH of Treharrock, St Kew
+ Susan Symons HAMBLY b: 1805 c: 20 JAN 1805 d: BEF 1871
5 Elizabeth MARTYN
5 Caroline MARTYN - b 1807/8, d ca Feb 1899, St Columb
- paid for "Martyn window" at St C Min
5 Mary MARTYN - b 1808/9, m ca Aug 1852
+ Constantine Bradford JOHNS b: 1805 -(also m(1) Mary Martyn, ca May 1838)
5 William MARTYN b: 1811 - merchant & farmer at Trevemper Bridge, 1851
- leased Polwhele, Trevemper Bridge, from his brother in 1836
5 Gertrude MARTYN
5 Thomas MARTYN b: 1813 (1812?)-1893 (Bodmin ca Nov)
+ Susanna Symons MARTYN b: 1812

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Demitrius on Tuesday 05 July 16 14:02 BST (UK)

Hi and thanks for that. I am descended from William Martyn, a physician, born in St Columb in 1816 - same name (William seems to be a family brand) but a different William, although curiously he seems also to have married an Elizabeth.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: dmollison on Tuesday 05 July 16 23:01 BST (UK)

Your Dr William Martyn (30 Sep 1815 - 21 Sep 1896) is referred to on the first page of a diary of my great-great grandparents George Walker and Susan Gertrude Liddell. On 9th June 1860 they moved to Wimbledon; two days later the entry reads `Dear Jemmy not well. We have not chosen our Doctor yet, so I wrote up to William Martyn.' His brother Silas Edward Martyn (1817-87), a warehouseman, also features in the diary.

Their father was Dr Thomas Martyn (1774-1826); he was a brother of the William (1775-1815) commemorated in the window, and they married sisters, Sarah and Elizabeth Darke respectively. Their sister Mary Martyn (1770-1845) was a grandmother of Susan Gertrude Liddell, and thus a gggg-grandmother of mine.

If you send me a message with your email I could send you my annotated copy of the tree giving the numerous descendants up to 1850 of Thomas Martyn and Gertrude Turnavine who married in 1696.

Best wishes, Denis

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Demitrius on Tuesday 05 July 16 23:13 BST (UK)

Dear Denis - Many thanks for getting back to me. William was my gggrandfather. You can reach me at brian.mooney@btinternet.com

Best wishes

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: teilujnitram on Friday 26 January 18 17:22 GMT (UK)

I'm rather confused and could do with some help. I have Thomas Martyn 1737 - 1780 = Anne King 1740 - 1780 but I have them living in Crantock although married in St Columb Minor. My line I think is through their daughter Margaret (1769) who married Thomas Trenerry 1760-1834. I have a family story that one of our relatives got drowned in the Gannel and see that that is supposed to be William Martyn 1775-1815 = Elizabeth Darke from one of the other posts. I wondered if they are actually related? Also I have Martin from Stithians in our tree and go back to Michael Martin 1734-1810 = Jane Bath 1741-1839 from Martin Martin and Martin Martin. I wondered if anyone knows about them, as my father thinks that he had a wood working tool with Martyn Martin inscribed on it. Does anyone know how to find out what occupation these people had before the advent of the census? Many thanks.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: Demitrius on Friday 26 January 18 18:04 GMT (UK)

I assume you have seen or possess a copy of the Martyn family tree.

The few paragraphs I paste below could help you a little. I would be happy to help further if you are prepared to post your email.

My grandmother, Jean Margaret Martyn, was born into a wealthy family – the Martyns lived in a substantial house on Wimbledon Common, Gladswood, No 9 Southside. Her father, William Edward was a successful lawyer, practicing in the Middle Temple.

The Martyns came from St Columb Minor in Cornwall, a small village just inland from Newquay, where the family can trace its roots back to the 17th century – the first record being that of Thomas Martyn, born in 1668. Thomas was a yeoman farmer, the founding father in a Martyn family tree commissioned in the mid-19th century. (See below).

William Edward’s father, William Martyn, was a physician and surgeon, born in St Columb in 1815, who was himself the son of a local doctor, Dr Thomas Martyn (1774-1826). Thomas’s brother, William (1817-1815), who drowned in the nearby Gannel Estuary, is commemorated in the east window of St Columb’s parish church. The churchyard is stacked with Martyn tombstones.

William Edward evidently prospered and set up home in considerable style in London at 6 Trevor Place in Knightsbridge in a household with three live-in servants and practiced in nearby Trevor Terrace. He later moved to Westmoreland Lodge, Wimbledon, where he died in 1896.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: teilujnitram on Friday 26 January 18 18:20 GMT (UK)

Hi Demetrius, thank you for your reply. I don't have a copy of the family tree, though my father thinks we did have one two generations ago but it was given to a relative who died in the '70s. I am intrigued by the Gannel estuary drowning, as our family story says that the ancestor spurred his horse in to the Gannel - the horse made it home but the rider didn't. I imagine there may have been several drownings in those days though so I could be barking up the wrong tree. Many thanks

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: teilujnitram on Wednesday 31 January 18 12:50 GMT (UK)

Quote from: dmollison on Tuesday 05 July 16 13:21 BST (UK)

Yes, I can place them on the Martyn tree; I've pasted him and his children below. He was son of John M (1737-99), son of Joseph, son of Thomas ..

How do you connect to the C19 Martyns?

Denis

4 William MARTYN b: 1775 c: 27 DEC 1775, of Trevithick?
- drowned in the Gannel (estuary, Crantock/Newquay) 15 Oct 1815 acc. Bibliotheca Cornubiensis
- m Elizabeth Darke 11 Nov 1802, Hatherleigh
5 John Darke MARTYN b: 1804 - d 1877
- b Trevithick, 30 Nov 1803, d Padstow 27 Jan 1877; m 29 Jan 1834 Bodmin SSH of Treharrock, St Kew
+ Susan Symons HAMBLY b: 1805 c: 20 JAN 1805 d: BEF 1871
5 Elizabeth MARTYN
5 Caroline MARTYN - b 1807/8, d ca Feb 1899, St Columb
- paid for "Martyn window" at St C Min
5 Mary MARTYN - b 1808/9, m ca Aug 1852
+ Constantine Bradford JOHNS b: 1805 -(also m(1) Mary Martyn, ca May 1838)
5 William MARTYN b: 1811 - merchant & farmer at Trevemper Bridge, 1851
- leased Polwhele, Trevemper Bridge, from his brother in 1836
5 Gertrude MARTYN
5 Thomas MARTYN b: 1813 (1812?)-1893 (Bodmin ca Nov)
+ Susanna Symons MARTYN b: 1812

I have found the newspaper account of the drowning, in the Royal Cornwall Gazette of 7th October 1815, says he drowned on the 4th, while warping a boat across the Gannel. The warp broke and he was tipped in with another person. Very sad as mentions he has a lot of very young children left without any means of support.

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: QuayGar on Sunday 23 September 18 13:31 BST (UK)

Can anyone help me to identify a member of the Martyn family please?
On 9 Dec 1721 at St Columb Minor, Margaret Martyn married John Sampson. Following his death in 1732, she married Richard Rickard dying in 1780.
I suspect that Margaret was the daughter of Richard Martyn and Jane but can anyone help me to confirm this please?

Title: Re: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor
Post by: slightlyfoxed on Monday 21 March 22 10:19 GMT (UK)

Probably totally unconnected but there are Martyns on my website
https://sites.google.com/site/pomeroytwigs2/my-pomeroy-family/werrington

Has anyone got anything on. either the Mundy family or the Mylles - around Launceston
William Mylle was Mayor of Launceston and his unnamed daughter married Thomas Hext/ Hickes another mayor of Launceston. Hext's 1595 Will gives both these names, his daughter Florence married a Mr Mundy and the lands his wife brought to the marriage went to his eldest son and his granddaughter Jane Pomeroy.
I have been unable to dig anything up about either family that seems relevant
All I have is William Mylle was Mayor of Launceston 1539 & 1544
Mill, William, mayor of Launc’n the Duchy accounts of 1556, William Mill, mayor, certified….
Richard Mylle and his son William were both Mayors of Launceston

My website is Pomeroy Twigs
https://sites.google.com/site/pomeroytwigs2/spouses/hext

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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: krisesjoint on Monday 03 December 07 04:26 GMT (UK)