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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: TessieWessie on Monday 23 June 08 09:21 BST (UK)
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I have managed to trace my ancestry back to Stickney c.1800 when my Gt.Gt.Gt Grandfather Richard Lawrence (b.c.1780) married an Isabelle Groose (b.c.1788) in Stickney. I have been unable to find a birthplace for Richard Lawrence. Can anyone help me?
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The marriage actually took place in 1803 at Stickney ... it's in my Lincs marriage index, but I don't have an exact date.
The National Burial Index has the following-
4 Feb 1835 Stickney ... Isabella LAWRENCE aged 51
An Isabel GROOSE was bap at Stickney 9 April 1784, dau of George and Sarah ... one of five kids born to them 1782-92. There was a marriage of a George GROOSE to Mary COCK in Stickney 1781 but I can't find a marriage to a Sarah ... perhaps there was an error in the marriage register or in transcription.
I see Richard LAWRENCE and Isabella stopped having kids around 1819. With this in mind, perhaps the burial of a Richard LAWRENCE 9 June 1820 (aged 45) is relevant - but this was at Freiston, 8 miles south of Stickney.
The IGI is playing up so I can't find anything on Richard LAWRENCE at the moment.
I see the LAWRENCEs had kids called George and Sarah
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From the age of Richard Lawrence's first child I ascertained that the marriage was c.1803., although I was not aware that he died at the age of 45 in Freiston. As my Gt.Gt.grandfather John (Richards son born 1811) was only 9 when his father died I wonder if the family them moved to Freiston as while they lived in Stickney Richard was a farmer of modest means, so perhaps they lost the farm after Richards death. John & his Brother William eventually went to live and work in St.Pancras, Middlesex where John & his wife Caroline had a drapery and millinery business, and William had a glove manufacturing company. I have always wondered where they would have got the money to start businesses like these in London and have considered the idea that their father may have left them a share of the family farm. I still wonder and would like to know whether Richard was actually born in Lincs, or elsewhere.
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There were no other LAWRENCEs buried at Freiston or Stickney in the period 1813-60.
There was an Ann LAWRENCE married a Richard WAKEHAM in Stickney in 1804. Unfortunately, she died in March 1850 aged 77, so her precise birthplace (and possibly a hint of Richard's) remains a mystery. It is given as Lincs in the 1841 census (her husband was from Devon).
There seem to have been no LAWRENCE marriages at Stickney before 1803.
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Do you think that the Lawrence family may have come from a surrounding area i.e. Gosberton. I looked on the IGI myself and found a Lawrence family in Gosberton. Two Richards were mentioned. Gosberton isn't very far from Stickney is it?
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Gosberton isn't very far from Stickney is it?
Best part of 20 miles. Too far for comfort really in my opinion.
There were LAWRENCEs in the Boston area too - with Richards marrying-
1728, 1740, 1773 at Boston
1755 Swineshead
Thanks for getting me to consider Gosberton! I have just made progress on my EVERITT line, requiring only a 4-5 mile move to Sutterton. :)
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Caroline Cavill (Cavell) John Lawrence's wife was also born in Stickney.
Were this family originally from Stickney do you know?
I found that her sister Sarah was an authoress on the 1841/51 census. I Would love to know what sort of subjects she wrote about. Are there any records on this type of thing kept on records in Lincs?
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I found that her sister Sarah was an authoress on the 1841/51 census.
Where did you get that from? ???
1841 No occupation given.
1851 she was a School Mistress.
1861 Daughter of "House proprietor".
In Lincs, the name CAVELL/CAVILL is strongest in the Barton/Winterton/Goxhill area - up by the Humber.
EDIT: Burials
19 Aug 1839 John CAVELL (50)
10 Jan 1863 Elizabeth CAVIL (76)
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Hi again
Looked up all of the census's re Sarah Cave(i)ll and even I am baffled as to where my info came from re her being an authoress.
I note though that Sarah was on the 1901 census as an annuitant which I presume is a pension which was paid from her employment as a school mistress.
I have a note of information regarding Sarah being troublesome in the local church. From what I gather she was proclaiming her love aloud for someone in the congregation but I have been unable to make out to whom she was infatuated. This note was sent to me recently by a chap who seems to know a lot about Stickney. The note was found within the parish records. I would love to know more regarding this lady and her family. Would parish notes be for public knowledge/scrutiny?
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The Richard Lawrence who was buried at Frieston on 9 Jun 1820 was 45
There is a Will for Richard Lawrence of Stickney ref Lincolnshire Wills 1820/158 at Lincoln Archives
Best regards
Jacky Clark
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Thanks Jacky
Will let you know the outcome
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Hi Jacky Clark
Just to let you know I sent for the Will of Richard Lawrence 1775 and thankfully it has helped me get back two more generations and had also helped me find out that Richard was born in a village called Stow in Lindsey.
Thanks for your help.
Regards
TessieWessie
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Brilliant - I would have ground to a halt without a very helpful Will for my Holmes/Cartwright line.
I just love them them.
One of my favourites is where Grandad age about 76 left his boots to grandson age 6
Regards
Jacky
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Just to let you know I sent for the Will of Richard Lawrence 1775 and thankfully it has helped me get back two more generations and had also helped me find out that Richard was born in a village called Stow in Lindsey.
Hi tessie
I hope you have some "hard" evidence, as a Richard LAWRENCE married an Elizabeth WALKER in Stow in 1800.
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I have the Will of Richard Lawrence 1775 which mentioned his dear wife Isabella Lawrence (nee Groose). Her father George was the Trustee for Richards Will.
I believe Richards parents were a Richard & Elizabeth Lawrence (nee Crowder), and that they were married on 16.5.1773. Their children were Martha1773, Faith 1787, John 1777, William 1791, Sarah 1779 and Richard 1775.
I have no exact that they were from Stow other than the IGI which showed a Richard Lawrence born 1775 in Stow. The family names above are followed through to Richard Lawrence's children, and their children.
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I just don't want you chasing the wrong hare!
I mentioned the 1800 marriage (above) ... then a Richard LAWRENCE (wid) married Ann CUDBED (wid) in Coates by Stow in 1805.
There was a Charlotte bap to Richard and Ann at Stow in 1806.
A Richard LAWRENCE was buried at Stow 10 May 1850 aged 74. Oh dear!
1841 has a Richard LAWRIN? 65 Tailor, with wife Ann in Stow (indexed as LANARDO). Ann was still there in 1851, living with a daughter Charlotte 44.
Sorry :(
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I'm pretty sure now that Richard (1775) left Stow to marry Isabella Groose (m.1803) who lived in Stickney. George Groose her father had a shop in Stickney as it is mentioned amongst court papers after a theft from the shop took place.
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I'm pretty sure now that Richard (1775) left Stow to marry Isabella Groose (m.1803) who lived in Stickney. George Groose her father had a shop in Stickney as it is mentioned amongst court papers after a theft from the shop took place.
The GROOSE part of things isn't in question.
It's just it seems to me there's quite a bit of evidence that Richard LAWRENCE never left Stow.
Two marriages;
a child or two;
being there in 1841;
a burial in 1850;
a widow and daughter still there in 1851.
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Where do you get the two marriages from?
Richards last Will and Testament states: This is the last Will and Testament of me Richard Lawrence of Stickney in the county of Lincoln, Farmer and Grasier being of sound mind memory................................................
Tessie
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Where do you get the two marriages from?
In my Lincs marriage index-
1) a Richard LAWRENCE married an Elizabeth WALKER in Stow in 1800
2) a Richard LAWRENCE (wid) married Ann CUDBED (wid) in Coates by Stow in 1805
Children of Richard and Ann at Stow (from IGI) -
Charlotte 1806
William 1809
1841
Stow
Richard LAWRINS? 65 Tailor
Ann 65
Both born Lincs
Richard LAWRENCE was buried at Stow 10 May 1850 aged 74
1851
Stow
Ann LAWRANCE (wid) 74 Proprietor of Houses, Notts Thorney (5-6 miles south of Stow)
Charlotte WARD (dau,wid) 44 Stow
Henry WARD (gr son) 11 Wellingore
I don't doubt that your Richard LAWRENCE lived in Stickney. I have serious doubts in believing that he was the one born in Stow (which, incidentally, is over 40 miles from Stickney).
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On re-reading the Will of Richard Lawrence and also the various messages here another fact which may or may not help is that a Richard Wakeham was also one of the trustees mentioned in the Will. You have mentioned a Richard Wakeham married to an Ann Lawrence who died aged 77.
Another two trustees were John Phillips and William Phillips (father and son perhaps???)
The Children mentioned in the Will are as follows:
George
Ann
William
John
Sarah
Mary
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In view of the trusteeship, I guess it's possible that Ann LAWRENCE (who married Richard WAKEHAM) was Richard's sister. We think she was born about 1773 (buried aged 77 in 1850).
It's possible (but it remains only a possibility without further proof) that she was the Ann LAWRENCE bap 19 Nov 1773 Boston*, dau of Richard and Elizabeth (nee CROWDER - they married 1773 Boston). The only other child of theirs for which we have a baptism was Elizabeth in 1782.
We know there was no LAWRENCE baptism in Stickney before 1804 (Richard and Isabella's child), so your LAWRENCEs must have arrived from somewhere.
*Incidentally, the LAWRENCEs in Stow had a child christened just 2 days later.
An Elizabeth LAWRENCE was buried in Boston in 1785 aged 35.
The following year, a Richard LAWRENCE (wid) married an Elizabeth MELLS in Boston.
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I have just gone through the IGI for various Ann's and Richard's births in Lincs to find parentage and found an Ann Lawrence born in Skirbeck 30.10.1772 to a John and Sarah Lawrence and a Richard Lawrence also born to a Sarah & John Lawrence in Skirbeck in 1767 (died a few years later). I also found another Richard born to the same couple in 1762??
I dont know the distances of these places from each other i.e. Stickney to Skirbeck - Stickney to Gosberton - Stickney to Boston.
Stickney to Stow (40 miles)
I assume you are convinced now that my Richard Lawrence was NOT born in Stow?
Tessie
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I dont know the distances of these places from each other i.e. Stickney to Skirbeck - Stickney to Gosberton - Stickney to Boston.
Stickney to Stow (40 miles)
I assume you are convinced now that my Richard Lawrence was NOT born in Stow?
Tessie
Here's a map http://tinyurl.com/5emp3p
Stickney at top, Boston and Skirbeck to the south, Freiston to east of Boston, Gosberton in bottom left.
The map squares are 10km, 6.2 miles.
I've been convinced about the Stow Richard LAWRENCE for a while. If I were a descendant of his and found that someone wanted to whisk him off to Stickney, I'd be quite upset! :'(
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Looking at the map I cannot believe how far from Stickney Freiston is.
Which beggars the question why did he go to Freiston to die?
I can see now that Skirbeck is fairly near Boston, but Gosberton is as far away from Boston as Stickney is from Skirbeck.
Another thought crossed my mind regarding the Will. It is signed by someone who undersigned themselves Surragate. The name above this is a Martha Gow/Goe/Gos/Gor. Last letter difficult to read. I know little of Will administration, so dont know if this means the writer stood in for Richard in writing it, and if so, I am also surprised it was a woman. Could she have been related - a sister maybe, or solicitors clerk. Any suggestions ???
We are along the right lines in thinking that Richards parents were Richard and Elizabeth (Crowder) Lawrence then?
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Looking at the map I cannot believe how far from Stickney Freiston is. Perhaps you now realise how far it is to Stow!
Which beggars the question why did he go to Freiston to die? Pass ... there were no other LAWRENCEs buried there
I can see now that Skirbeck is fairly near Boston, but Gosberton is as far away from Boston as Stickney is from Skirbeck.
Another thought crossed my mind regarding the Will. It is signed by someone who undersigned themselves Surragate. The name above this is a Martha Gow/Goe/Gos/Gor. Last letter difficult to read. I know little of Will administration, so dont know if this means the writer stood in for Richard in writing it, and if so, I am also surprised it was a woman. Could she have been related - a sister maybe, or solicitors clerk. Any suggestions ??? I know nothing about will administration. There's a whole book on the role of the surrogate here http://tinyurl.com/6g8bd8
We are along the right lines in thinking that Richards parents were Richard and Elizabeth (Crowder) Lawrence then? Maybe or maybe not. I think it's a possibility but, without proof it's not a leap of faith I'd be prepared to make. You may have noticed that I'm not too keen on leaping to rash conclusions ;) The names of Richard and Isabella's kids don't help that leap do they?
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Geoff
With reference to Sarah Cavell and my original comment that she was an authoress, I have just found the entry on the 1881 census for St. Pancras which states she is an annuitant and authoress.
Page 68 St. Pancras census 1881.
Take a look.
Tessiewessie
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I have just found the entry on the 1881 census for St. Pancras which states she is an annuitant and authoress.
So she was! :)
Re Sarah being an annuitant: I'm sure her income would have come from family wealth/income from houses etc. As far as I know, there was no early retirement nor index-linked pension for the teaching profession in the 1870s.
Can you find her in 1871?
Someone in Oz had an interest in her several years ago
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-TRIVIA-ENG/2001-01/0979961558
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Thanks for the Oz link Geoff, I have written to him already.
Caroline Lawrence (nee Cavell), I believe, died in Essex. On the 1891 census
she is living as a lodger with a Henry Jewson and his family. Henry is a police inspector.
I presume after many unsettling years during her marriage to John Lawrence she returned to him, although it doesn't list him as living in the Jewson household with her. He is now a grocer also living in West Ham, Essex, and has a woman and her young child housekeeping for him.
Entries for Caroline show no occupation, so, once again as you pointed out, there must have been some sort of private income which maintained her and her sister.
I will check out the 1871 census.
Regards
Tessiewessie
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On the 1891 census she is living as a lodger with a Henry Jewson and his family. Henry is a police inspector.
It was 1881, he was Henry JENMAN (LDS has transcribed "JEWMAN").
His marriage has JENMAN
Marriages Jun 1873
BONIFACE Harriet Shoreditch 1c 285
JENMAN Henry John W Shoreditch 1c 285
There was a BONIFACE visitor in 1881 to confirm it.
1891 she was in Stickney again.
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Hi Geoff
It's quite a while since I have looked at this site and have realised that I was remiss in not thanking you for all of your help in the search for Richard Lawrence of Stickney.
I just wanted to say a big thankyou. Sorry it was so late in coming.
TessieWesssie
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No problem :)
You may be able to look up some of these events in the registers, many of which are now online.
Indeed the 1820 burial of Richard LAWRENCE at Freiston says his place of residence was Stickney
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=513763&iid=242467
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Hi I am Philip Stephen Lawrence a direct descendant of George Lawrence son of Richard & Isabella. I have been adding onto the Heritage site and reached the same position as you. Where was Richard from?
I think...think that many left farming during the mid 1800's to areas of better prospects and later with the coming of the railways and docks. My great grandfather William T Lawrence are from Gravesend, Kent and then movement to Grimsby where I am now.
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Hi
I have not been on RChat for a long while and this is the first time I have seen your reply of being a direct line of George Lawrence son of Richard and Isabel Lawrence. My link is with John Lawrence 1811 born in Stickney. John married a Caroline Cavi(e)ll in St Pancras in 1839 and they lived in Chapel Street, St Pancras where John had opened a Millinery/haberdashery shop. Their first child was William Showler Cavill Lawrence 1843. William was my grandfather's father, and, it has to be said was a scoundrel. I have also made contact with another of the descendents of Richard's children and have seen photos of some of the members of the Lawrence children etc. I would love to exchange info with you.
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Hi guys!
I too am a descendant of Richard Lawrence and Isabella Groose of Stickney, Lincolnshire.
I am descended from their son William Lawrence and his wife Rosamond Perry and through their son George Groose Lawrence aka Henry Percy Walters.
I would love to exchange info with you guys, especially as I’ve been trying to find living relatives of Richard and Isabella.
Cheers,
- Jai